 that we invite Vishali Banerjee, Managing Director, Platinum Guild International, which is the PGI, where Shali made a shift from the advertising and marketing industry to the jewelry industry to create a category awareness for the metal that was lesser known in the subcontinent. She's been instrumental in building India's successful relationship with the highest valued and rare metal, which we all know about, which is platinum. She led the charge for the Platinum Guild International to enter a traditional jewelry market and create a new aspirational category for platinum-based jewelry. A firm believer in the merits of artists' research and data-driven insights, Vishali has also a keen eye for evolving consumer needs and new business opportunities, which has led the establishment of thriving high-end platinum jewelry market in India. A marketing professional with extensive experience in category creation and market development across lifestyle and luxury brands, Vishali is somebody who understands the importance of building a network of strong relationships. And in conversation, of course, we've got Dr. Anuradha Batra, Chairman and Editor-in-Chief Exchange for Media and BW Business World. And as Mr. Batra rightly said, that they'll be discussing on why television is central to building brands. So with this, it is time for me to pass on the light, Baton, to two of our dignitaries on the stage and I'm sure it's gonna be a great fireside chat and we're looking forward for this discussion. Over to you, Dr. Batra. Thank you, Batma. Vishali, good afternoon and thank you for making time. Time, we've understood, is the biggest asset one has when I was 12 years old. My mother, who still calls me two dimes a day and I feel blessed, used to tell us that only two things matter in life. She used to say time is money and health is wealth. I think pandemic has made us realize how deep those are and they're still true. First, let me start by asking you, Vishali, how have been the last 23 months for you both personally and professionally? Hi and good afternoon to everyone and thank you for inviting me and for the wonderful introduction. It's really good that we are talking about a time where we can look back and hope that we are moving forward in whichever way of form. I think last year has also shown us that disruption may be a way of life but probably and hopefully it will be better as we move forward as the health infrastructure improves, vaccination improves, hopefully the complete disaster of COVID is something that we can leave behind us. So, and as you asked me how the last two years have been, like for everyone, it has been very challenging both personally as well as professionally. I think that has been a crossboard. I don't think there's anybody who hasn't been challenged by this in the first year. Of course, it was about just not knowing very much about it, not knowing, being faced with something like this was just unprecedented really and how to deal with it, bringing life to a complete standstill. And last year, I think the human loss, loss of lives and loved ones has been more severe. So I think it has been, as you said, the truths that you have learned when you were 11 years old holds very, very, very true today. And in terms of the business, I think what has happened is people have learned to live with this. People have learned to rethink, to be more agile. I think those are the good things that the pandemic has taught us in terms of business is really to think on your feet and be extremely agile and to recapture demand as it comes. And we have seen a fairly swift recovery in quarter four of 2020 and quite a sharp, be unexpected and then again last year. So I think there have been a lot of lessons learned at a human level and at a business level. And I hope we can take these lessons forward really. I think you're on mute. I want to keep it to brand building, business building and television advertising, but I just want to say that philosophically, I think one of the things that I've learned is kind candor, you know, which is being, I mean, we have to be candid, but doing it in a more sensitive way, the kind where at least I'm talking, maybe you and a lot of you were already sensitized. And second is the fact that never say never, you know, as you rightly said, we've shown as individuals and organizations that we are resilient, we're truly dogged and we are truly grateful for, you know, surviving as individuals, as families, as businesses, because there was a huge loss of life and livelihoods during these. Totally. But there are good things and I keep giving these statistics and just to contextualize while digital is growing, television continues to be the number one medium. Tell us how has been your organization's journey and you are building a category, you know, you are creating a category, you are enhancing the category. So especially the role of brand building becomes even more important when you're enhancing and broad basing a category. Tell me what have been your experiences with television advertising and why do you believe television advertising still builds brand in a massive way? Okay, you know, everybody will know and you know, this will be of no surprise that okay, FNCG and mass products all need television, but for a category like platinum, which is really niche and in jewelry, which is high in lifestyle product, even for a category like ours, actually television is very, very important because I would start at the outset to say what does the brand of the business need and that will define television. So for us at PGI, when you look at it, as you said, it was a new category in a very established jewelry market because India's a very, very established jewelry market. For a category to even get any kind of mind share, we have to first have the basic level of awareness and nothing but television gives you that kind of reach, not even with our kind of audience because platinum is really focused on a very, very young urban audience, right? But even at this kind of audience, about a decade and a half back, it was more than 85% source of awareness with television and today, even with the rise of digital, 55% source of awareness, source of awareness, forget what we do. Source of awareness for a platinum is through television. So you cannot walk away from the media. Sorry, your own news. And the credibility and the halo of TV advertising. Yes, that's what I meant. And also, then if you have to create brands, okay? So one is about just delivering reach in your messaging so that you at least get to people before you can even build consideration or preference. They have to first know. And then it's about the entire communication around it. So yes, you can have the films, the kind of emotions that you can build and television. Of course, you can have digital films today and you will run it on video channels. So it is real to start with it was only television but with the growth of digital, it is an and. It is not an or. You cannot do either or it's not. And especially for audience such as ours, it is television and digital. Because there's a report which I had just seen which is that it's done by Accenture which says TV plus paid search is about two to four times brand ROI. And the way that is measured is through awareness, consideration, purchase intent, all the things that as brands we all measure. So it is really an and. And that is the way it is and it's going to be. Absolutely. And you quoted a qualitative survey in terms of the qualitative impact of advertising. And it is borne out by the numbers that advertisers are willing to put on television. The broadcasters are willing to put in terms of IPs which are big like IPL and other big IPs, you know, which may not be at the scale of IPL but still are very big. So clearly television stays mainstream. Now let me also, as you're expanding the base of PGI, the regional markets become very important. Tier three cities become very important and especially television is helping you kind of go there. How have you used regional to be able to penetrate into tier two and tier three cities? So we've actually used regional television right from the outset, even for tier one metro markets because if you look at the south of India, if you look at the east of India, they're very, very proud of their languages and rightfully so. So you've got to get into because there is nothing that builds a connect with people, you know, you speak their language. So, you know, regional television, even when we were looking at south of India and south of SARS, it still continues to be our largest market. We looked at regional television. We look at regional television for all, you know, whether it's east India or west India because language is very, very important. So even for metro markets and then now that we're looking at tier two, tier three because distribution, the consumer, there's a high interest and awareness of even in tier two, tier three cities. Now, we know that about 80, 85% is television reach in tier two, tier three. Yes, you know, we have digital which is increasing which is now I think at about 60 plus, 67 odd percent in tier two, tier three. And that has been a significant growth because it was in the thirties, I think in 2016 or so. But television still rules the rules at 80, 85. So we have to build awareness and get through to people that will be very much part of our media mix going forward. Thank you so much. As you move into 2022 and 2023, possibly we all are more optimistic, bullish and hence doubling up on our initiatives, you know, whether it's in the supply side, distribution side, demand generation side. Tell me what are the objectives of PGI over the next six to 12 months? So if we look at it, you know, I briefly mentioned that last year the recovery was very strong. So this year we are hopeful, even though we did have Omicron and business was a bit disrupted in the month, you know, middle Jan to middle of Feb. But again, it has been short and less severe on human health and livelihoods than the past. Luckily, and we hope that will continue. So for the next year, year and a half, we are very bullish on the market going forward. And we've already last quarter seen growth over pre-pandemic level at a quarter to quarter level. And this year, that's our expectation that we will deliver growth as a category of pre-pandemic level. So pre-pandemic levels, the category has been, you know, posting at about between 20 to 25% growth annually. And I think we should go back to that. There is the demand is very strong. There is demand much, you know, beyond metros right now, tier two, tier three, which we were talking about in terms of availability, retail distribution, it's got almost 40% distribution already over there. So these are the cities that are next on our list in terms of market penetration, as well as new segments. So now we have three category brands, one we've just launched the last quarter. So I think in the next year, year and a half, we will see these brands really delivering on the growth and their potential. Okay, as you engage with media platforms and television media platforms, what are your expectations this year from them, which are different in the last year? Because last year was an unusual year. While you said the comeback was strong, the numbers happened, and we had a better Diwali than we had in 2020, 2021 Diwali was still better, relatively. What are your expectations in terms of product offerings, pricing, packaging from television media platforms this year, which are different from last year? So if we look at it, given that now it is not an eye or it is an ant across. So as marketers, it has to be an integrated media campaign. It has to be because you have a fairly seamless consumer journey across media, whether it's television, digital, wherever else, and so we expect, now you don't have budgets that go up significantly. So it is a question for every marketer, it is to build efficiency, is to build effectiveness and you cannot look at one medium versus another medium. You have to look at one medium and another medium. So I think expectation, at least our expectation would be for media houses to also respond to these needs as marketers that we have, because ultimately that leads to healthy business and therefore healthy industries right across if we can generate that kind of business. Fantastic. Yes, also I would say all of us are in the repeat business. So as businesses grow, as brands grow, as there is success from campaigns and market growth and market share growth, logically, there's more investment into media to be able to grow to the next logical stage. Let me ask you my last two questions. One is a specific question on media and the other a little more philosophical question. First is, again, we've called this TV first, so we clearly believe that both for audiences and hence for advertisers, television still for large advertiser still stays because they can afford it, both in terms of getting the best creative and then being able to put money behind the media space. They do it. There is a rise of D2C branch, okay? And as you see, a lot of brands that became D2C are now coming to television. I can give you at least five such examples, if not more. So clearly television is a multiplier. Otherwise, I mean, they've had spectacular growth through D2C, but the fact that they want to be more relationship oriented, they want to bring that. When you evaluate a TV plan, how much do you put in terms of brand building in your mind and how much is it about driving sales on an event, event meaning a festival or a sale or a new product offering? So give us a sense of in your mind, how do you qualitatively assess brand building? Well, there are quantitative, very quantitative tools to be able to do that research. How are you able to use it to be able to drive both brand building and market expansion and sales? Give us some examples and some data. So Anurag for us, television plays the role of brand building. That's very clear. That's why we use television. It is the right platform to build our brand. Today, doing this consistently over the past, over more than a decade and a half, we have very high spontaneous awareness and consideration levels for platinum as a metal in our target group of 85 plus. Now that's quite, for us, it's very exciting because it is a very niche category and we are a gold dominated market. So if you have consideration for platinum at such a high level, that to our mind is the role that the brands play. For tactical promotions, we are a guild. So for us, these are the brands that we build and the brands will, the retail side of it does more tactical, we are more branded and sure we launch new collections, but then we use other mediums to really talk through the collection. There is the digital medium for that. There is the print medium for that. Television plays the role of holding our brands and communicating the values of our brands. I understand that. And it brought, bringing me to my last logical question is sporting events are getting bigger and bigger, more important and the audiences continue to throng and when they had time in COVID, they watched a lot of sport. So what is your plan at PGI in terms of big sporting, leveraging sporting properties including IPL for brand building and targeting the male audiences? Of course, correct me if my impression or understanding is right that your category is primarily for women, right? But that is a perception. That's why I'm doing it. So how do you bring in more male audiences leveraging the sporting properties including IPL for brand? So our first category brand that Pluton launched is Pluton Love Bands, which is a couple band for between a girl and a boy. So therefore we have targeted men right from the outset. 2019, we created a brand and launched a brand called Men of Platinum, which targets the young urban affluent men in India. So it's not only about women. Platinum in India has always been about men and women both. And to talk to your sporting events, this is something that we actually tried last year. We wanted to look at the IPL. We started off an initiative with IPL and then we were hit with Wave 2. We did look at World Cup and that we did with Hot Star. So, and that has given us very, very significant results. You know, our aided awareness went up by 38%, our consideration increased by 26% within this audience. Yes, it is predominantly a male audience, but it's not only a male audience. Cricket is consumed by men and women in India. Of course I am. Yes. And then we have an association with KL Rahim for our Men of Platinum collection that we had launched last year. And we are also actively looking at how we could use the IPL platform this year. So sporting events, as you rightly said, are big. And if you have a male oriented brand then it makes real good sense. Fantastic. My last philosophical question. We are around the end of February, the women's day is around. And it's, you know, while I don't believe in days, you know, you've got to have the same outlook, of course, but like we celebrate birthday once a year, there's more focus and it's a special day. In that sense, there is a women's day. And what is your message to women in our industry in the business domain, advertising, marketing, media? You've risen to the top of your game. What is a leadership mantra that you'd like to give to women who are in the middle level and who are looking to become leaders of their companies, become MDs, become CEOs, become founders of businesses? What has been your success mantra and what would be your advice to these young women? You know, I don't think there should be advice because young women today are men and women, actually. As you said, that, you know, we don't need a one women's day to celebrate women. We must celebrate ourselves, men and women, right through the year. And I would just say in terms of the kind of leadership and that actually applies to both men and women, both since you asked for some advice on women as leaders, I would say just as leaders, what I think and what I think is right for the moment and definitely the last two years have taught us how important that is. It's really about compassion and empathy, leadership with compassion and empathy. It is about being resilient. It's about putting your people first because that is at the heart of my leadership and I think that is very, very crucial as we move forward in this world is to be inclusive, carrying your people along, have empathy when you're dealing with them. You will bring out the best in them. There will be a sense of belonging and passion in what they bring to work. So it is really about the leadership that we need as we move forward in this world. We feel this, we can, and this is to women out there, just be fearless because it is a world that you can just fly. Absolutely. I'm coming from somebody who's walked the talk and achieved. I said advice in the sense of tips, sharing your journey because nothing works like carrying it from a person who's herself done it. And you're right, achievement does not look at the gender, but I would say that the last two years for women have been tougher because women inside homes, they've, you know, I'm not necessarily talking of you, but there are many surveys that UN has done where women have been at a disadvantage. Absolutely, but more so. Yes. Their workload has grown and women will always try to balance between families, equally important. And I would not like to make a sweeping statement, but men tend to, at least I tend to focus a little more on my work than sometimes on my family. And that's where my wife as a rock solid support helps. So in that context, you rightly said that leadership has become about compassion and being sensitive. I would say also self-care has become very, very important. You cannot take care of others if you don't take care. And you rightly said, be fearless. And I would say, have an ambition. Once you have an ambition and you throw out a wish in the universe, magic happens. So on that happy note and television first, and you said that this year you're going to use sporting IPs to be able to build the PGI brand. We wish you luck in your future. And I'm sure more and more audiences will get your message and adopt your products. And clearly I stand corrected and I look at the products that you have for men and definitely going back more educated. So thank you. Thank you so much. It was lovely talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.