 show because I'm running late tonight I'm here I'm here to do a show and why is my window all messed up my windows my tabs yeah I like these up other maps that are out there they're showing hello everyone yeah Nevada come on oh there's yes their maps out there click on the states click on the maps place your bets know everyone hello this is this week in science at least it should be tonight it should be all about the science tonight we know there are other topics on people's minds very hard to not think about so hard to not think about some of these things but we're gonna do a podcast we're gonna do a podcast right now and in doing this podcast you know what's gonna happen we're gonna talk about magically transported into a future a bright one a bright and shiny happy future bright and shiny happy future bright shiny happy future la la la okay um we're gonna do a podcast now I think and I have I'm missing things to say about things what do we have in the show tonight I'm like I said I am behind on things well that's the part that we get to that in a minute what we get to that part where we say what we have to have three things three things I hope everyone out there is having a lovely evening yeah really do appreciate you stopping by okay I can start the show we can start the show we can do this okay I typed things down we can do this I'm only running a little behind only a little am I loud enough I'm not down far enough in my video looks ragged and I'm quiet yeah oh yeah you did get ragged again oh no I got ragged again yeah raggedy andy um my computer freaked out over something so why don't you guys hang hang tight for a minute I'll be right back so everyone this is just a wait it wait on the podcast for a second but I'll be back with some more volume in just a moment and just raggediness okay I'm also trying to fix something seeing for some reason yeah I am not in stereo what's up with that I am only hearing everything in monotone hey fada hey paul disney hey mike shoemaker welcome to the chat room area of this weekend science show the patient ladies and gentlemen we are still counting the science stories that we will be bringing tonight I have five okay I'm done what do you got Blair I have three stories that you bring you have three okay see Nevada that's not that hard just do math I mean to be fair I did start looking for stories yesterday so I'm in the same boat Mike shoemaker asks uh where in the world I'm I'm a I'm back in Davis California United States uh I've been here long enough to have cast a ballot in the election thing that's happening and it looks like I might not be able to go back to Denmark for a little while oh because they've started spiking they're they're starting to shut down again might be hanging out in California for a while it's just cool uh I would say we should hang out but we shouldn't we should all not hang out together wouldn't that be fun yeah I mean that's what we're doing right now yeah yes the third world it very much is oh yeah I should silence my cell phone oops I'm a little scattered boys and girls yo you look fine now is it better hello okay let me see if I can I had to restart I restarted I've been I went and opened a tab in the googles earlier and for whatever reason opening that tab in the googles just at that moment everything went crazy let me get back in my chat room are we ready to do this are you guys talking to animals what's happening on the on the podcast stream uh this is oh are we live oh hello everybody oh my goodness did you just hear all of that what I have some editing to do kiki no it's fine it's fine just let us nippity snips we're back okay we shouldn't have played that card game I have better video sound is better let's do a show shall we so let me uh let me get my music queued up because that's something that's important I restarting all the computers music there we go okay so let's start the show in a little number called three two this is twist this week in science episode number 790 oh I wrote it down wrong again I am so the these numbers right now are really not working with me numbers they all count in three two this is twist this week in science episode number 798 recorded on Wednesday November 4th 2020 science is all about patience hey everyone I'm dr kiki and tonight on the show we will fill your head with glowing animals little nudges and earwax but first disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer math you either have it on your side or you don't whatever numbers you are working with it's never going to add up to anything other than the sum of its parts you can wishful think you can squint your eyes look sideways at the equation and if you like you can stand on your head to get a different perspective but math has a way of being perniciously indifferent to how you approach approach the solution and as ballot counting continues in america millions await the fate of a nation now at the mirthless mercy of math but don't blame the math after all without math we couldn't bring you this week in science coming up next and a good science to you too justin blare and everyone out there welcome to another episode of this week in science we are back back back back like i said we would be my third chicken in here okay i'm not a chicken i can talk about science it's gonna happen we're gonna talk about all the science we are in a mood tonight and i hope you are in a mood to listen so on tonight's show what did i bring i've got some earwax as mentioned in the very start i've got uh some missing height as well and i've also got a few nudges for you we're gonna talk about nudges those things that maybe you don't really know are happening nudge nudge justin what did you bring i've got early human lady hunters invasive rats a leukemia super spreader ancient asian genomes and why magic mushrooms might be a magic bullet in the treatment of depression sounds amazing a little too news anchoring actually very news anchoring maybe a little salesy but you know it we'll talk about that when it comes up blair animal corner please yes yes yes i have bio fluorescent platypus i have dull colored birds and i have surfing fish surfing you know if i were to were a fish i'd want to surf that i mean why not but do you surf on wales because that's actually what this is about this gets this is fish extreme sports yeah no extreme ick thea sports all right let's dig into the show as we jump on into all these stories i would like to remind you that if you are not yet subscribed to this weekend science you can find us anywhere podcasts are found stitchers freaker spotify pandora radio dot com tune in all over the place apple google you can find us also on facebook and on youtube and on twitch look for this weekend science are those all real yes people have so many options these days it's amazing there's also just almost any one syllable word it turns out is a web client so there's actually there's lots of consonants consonants like calendars and i want to remind you as well that calendars are available we'll remind you again later in the show but yes blair's calendars are for sale on the twist website head to twist.org click on that froggy toad and you can buy a calendar yes let's plan ahead for another amazing year no just an amazing year but yes and an amazing year so let's talk very briefly let's move into the news shoo shoo short stories here we go shortish kind of they speaking of missing things not missing time but maybe missing explanations for how our genes influence height since about the late 2000s when researchers started looking into the genes of the genome to figure out what markers were linked to various diseases and starting through twin studies and family studies and looking at the influence of wealth they started picking out genes that are related to height as opposed to environmental factors like disease state in childhood or how how good of food you got or other environmental factors so the markers that they were looking at they couldn't tally it up they couldn't figure out of the dna markers what explained all the height they they could only first explain about five percent of its variation and then they ended up putting together a number more genetic markers and they got it up to about 40 or 50 percent of the genetic component of height so they're they're getting there but now in about 2008 team a team of researchers put together an effort called giant it's a global consortium called giant and it pooled the data of 700,000 people looking across 3,300 markers that then explained 25 percent they added things up and added things up but they have been able to put together a bunch of things and basically they are tracking down uh up to 80 percent now of the variation in height based on dna it's basically from studies of identical and fraternal twins and they're starting to put it together they've identified nearly 10,000 dna markers now that explain the influence and that's why it's so varied and why you're a mixture of both of your parents but also it's not a perfect mix and and why you can't say by just measuring a child and they're measuring the parents that the child will be six foot two when they are 19 years old there are a lot of things that go into it um yeah but they're we've been measuring this for a very long time and even knowing all of these 10,000 markers that are involved being able to use them like sliders on a mixing board to produce the height of a child is still beyond our abilities but but we're figuring things out we're figuring things out yes yes so we're getting there we still have a ways to go how tall will i be when i grow up i don't know i will probably be shorter because i'm already shrinking okay speaking of women justin tell me about lady hunters of the past yes uh so men hunt uh women gather when early human groups sought food the division of labor was distinctly dictated by an individual's gender and how they participated within the group uh that's just the way it was or so somebody must have assumed and then convinced everybody else that became a saying uh most most likely reflecting the the imaginary reality created by men with sideburns bushy eyebrows and extraordinary nose hair mustaches because according to the research conducted university california davis absolutely nonsense uh nine thousand year old female burry burial uh in the andes mountains in south america reveals her to be a hunter not a gatherer she's a hunter randy haas assistant professor of anthropology is the lead author of the study which is titled female hunters of the early americas which is published in science advances quoting haas here we believe that these findings are particularly timely in light of contemporary conversations surrounding gendered labor practices and inequality labor practices among recent hunter gatherer societies are highly gendered which might lead some to believe that sexist inequality in things like prey or rank pay or rank are somehow natural but it's now clear that sexual division of labor was fundamentally different likely more equitable in our species deep hunter gatherer past so uh this this comes from one individual that they found uh but it was sort of uh posed a question hey have we really looked at identifying who in this ancient past was was a hunter so they went back and they looked through all sorts of other individuals uh 429 individuals from 107 sites of those 27 were associated with big game hunting tools so this isn't like hunting squirrels this is like going after big prey of that 2715 were male 11 were not in fact uh or 12 or not i guess but 11 or one maybe there's one missing i don't know what happened to 11 were female uh sample was sufficient to uh warrant the conclusion that female participation in early big game hunting was likely non-trivial this this this 9 000 year old specimen wasn't just a badass that was participating in the hunting but it was more of a norm and more common times yeah so their statistical analysis shows that somewhere between 30 and 50 percent of hunters in these populations were huntresses uh and even actually in the more recent modern human hunter activities it's uh it can get up to 30 percent so it's not uh completely uh so anyway uh change your uh views of how you think the division of labor naturally occurs in societies because i think like we've talked about this in the andretol studies like everybody goes on the hunt except for like the wounded that they care for that stay back at the cave or whatever but everybody goes out and has the broken bones and the injuries associated with uh attacking the prey whoever's capable right it's if you are able bodied and capable why not and it i think it would make more sense i mean especially in early hunter gatherer civilizations for anyone who's young and able bodied to be on the hunter side of things the gatherers to be the you know you're getting a little bit frail you're complaining about your your back and your your knees a little bit more so it's like oh you know grandma why don't you like stay back at camp or why don't you go look for the the wild radishes now wait a second now let's not the gathering required a lot of stooping a lot of absolutely down picking things caring things like it was not easy work either i'm not none of it is easy work i'm not none of it i yeah none of it's easy work so thunder beaver in the chat room is bringing up a really good point too which is that we know that in native american um cultures in many of them there's three to five genders at least that we've known of and so um that means that their gender roles if you want to call it that also kind of ran the gamut um in their culture so you could see how it's all it's all nothing if that's if that's like really recent too it's you can see how it all might be something that's kind of being imposed on what you found yeah it's an yeah it's an interpretation of of findings of remains based on current cultural attitudes and i mean like the the finding of the the viking women warriors that that justin talked about a while back you know it's like people hadn't really thought that viking women were necessarily warriors too but oh look at this maybe they maybe they were warriors fierce warriors as well but it's also one of one of those things that you have to remember about especially when you're talking about a warrior class of the ancient world you didn't need to be like the equivalent of a professional athlete today you just needed to be well nourished and you were you were that much more dominant than most people you ran into right right right yeah i think i think yeah and this just goes into the conversation of modern ideas of gender and so much of what we think of as just like okay this we've got man and woman man works woman doesn't woman stays home this is because of a very uh it's using people women as property and having it be a dominance through property and ownership attitude as opposed to egalitarianism everybody working together and trying to you know needing to hunt for the the village or the tribe or what you know there are many reasons that we have embarked on our current attitudes which thankfully are shifting let's talk about the darkness and how we can get away from the darkness do i just bring my platypus yes in fact you should um so i don't i don't know if if you two remember um but i reported a while back on bio fluorescence in squirrels you remember this the pink squirrels the pink glowing squirrels so the same team of researchers that was looking at these flying squirrels and how they they glowed in the dark um they were going through all the specimens the drawers of specimens in in kind of the the library and the the taxidermy library and while uh while they were doing some of that um they actually uh decided hey let's shoot this UV light on this uh tray of platypuses that's right next to all these squirrels we're looking at whoa what is that are those are they green so it turns out um they were green or cyan which uh i don't i'm assuming that's a kind of green i don't anyway so they were green um under the UV light it's like blue oh it is it's fine i'm not colorblind i have no idea what cyan is okay great i have i would have guessed it was like a pinkish red rust color i have no idea well greenish or bluish it sounds like um and so they they found that these guys were glowing in the dark which at this point the only mammals that have been found to bio fluoresce are the squirrel that i mentioned and opossums and now if you're keeping track we have the three different kinds of development in mammals the three different kind of um evolutionary radiation if you want to consider it that way of mammals you have the monotremes which are these first guys that lay eggs and that's so in platypuses we have some bio fluorescence in them then we have our opossum which is our marsupial so they give birth to very underdeveloped offspring and they go in a pouch and then we have a squirrel which is a placental mammal just like us so this is something now that has been discovered in three mammals and they happen to be the three very different temporarily like develop developmentally in the in the evolutionary chain when they broke off but also developmentally so now this becomes a question of first of all i think we have to shoot UV lights on everything now everything every every mammal do you glow in a museum get out your UV light and start taking notes because either this is extremely widespread and it started in the very first mammals or it is so helpful that it keeps popping up as convergent evolution which you know there there's a whole bunch of questions about why they might want to glow in the dark the best guess is that they are corpuscular so they're awake at dawn and dusk and so um so are the other animals that have been discovered to bio fluoresce so might be helpful but also remember that platypuses hang out in the mud they they move their their beak around into the mud they stir up all this mud into the water column underwater so they can get to bugs and stuff so um maybe it's helpful to be able to see each other through very cloudy water if you go in the dark i don't know um but uh anyway this also means that they can they probably can see different wavelengths than we can as well yeah so host of questions here but uh ultimately either most mammals can glow or it just keeps popping up well i love the idea that they would be they would be more visible during dawn and dusk you know where there's a little bit of light peeking in and maybe that makes others of their kind you know they they're all like oh there you are i can see you a little better i don't know didn't we kiki maybe you brought it okay i didn't one of you did uh that humans slightly bioluminous that there is work so slightly but yeah yeah yeah but we have a glow as well we got a little glow to us i mean what if just everything does is the thing like it's a wavelength it's it's a spectrum of light like just maybe we just all have some of it but then what's interesting is what can see in that wavelength and what is what what what run what in on uh one what on earth is seeing this other reality of all the different creatures and how they glow is it is it bees i don't know what does yeah well that's also uh thought to be very good just asked in the chat would you want to see uv light and 100 yes i had a black light in my room in middle school and high school because i thought it was so fun yeah you did yeah but also it probably it just it's it's more bright which is closer to probably what the average person sees anyway it's fine it's amazing it's amazing one more plot yeah i know one more thing for this weird animal just add it to the the bucket that was stuff was thrown into at the time when evolution was taking place for the platypus it was like shake it all up oh look what we've got here very odd monotreme animal i didn't mean to make fun of your blare for having a black light oh no you were in your spot you probably could have guessed it and you were right i had a beat curtain i had a lavalin can i tell i had a i had a i had one of any of these things i had none i had a black light i put it in my room as a teenager and i had to get rid of it almost immediately because i also had really bad dandruff oh no i was like oh this is gross i don't want to see the dandruff on all of everything oh this is terrible yeah that's awful what if you wanted to look at your earwax do you want lots of earwax would uh i mean you check the q-tip when you're done right just to see what kind of job you're done yeah clean as a whistle all right all right well you know there is a new methodology where researchers doctors could easily check the level of your stress by checking your earwax yes researchers from university of college london and king's college in london have published in the journal helion that about a device that they are using that can be used at home without medical supervision to allow stress checkups and maintain social distancing it uses cortisol levels in earwax which the researchers say appear to be stable that your earwax cortisol levels are there it's a good cheap easy effective way to get ear get get stress readings from a person yeah so normally we can use we can use saliva we can use hair samples but hair samples are much more long term they're time consuming and it's expensive to analyze them it's cheaper to analyze with earwax the researcher was actually inspired by honeycomb from bees and because of that went looking at earwax looking to see whether or not it would make a good home sampling source that wouldn't risk a lot of contamination knowing that beeswax is well preserved and can resist contamination itself so they have a device that's like a cotton swab and you stick it in your ear but it has a it has a break so that you can't stick it in too far and hurt yourself it's covered it's got a tip covered with a sponge and the it also has a solution that is reliable for the sample so anyway they found that earwax samples yielded more cortisol than hair samples and it was the fastest and cheapest method earwax for stress determination for the win but what if you're so stressed that you're constantly using a q-tip and then you have no earwax for them to test then you might have an issue this is a reason to not keep clean ears right you want to let the earwax build up so that you can test to see if you're stressed let your earwax build test your stress yes they are working on bringing this this uh this device to market so that it could be used as a medical device at home yeah very interesting who knew cortisol in earwax what you got next justin rats why do you have rats so the palmyra atoll if you're not familiar is a remote network of uh some islands out in the pacific once upon a time it had a rat problem now rats weren't native to the island atoll in the middle of the pacific ocean uh they likely arrived there's still a ways with the us navy all the way back in world war two so they've been uh 60-ish years they were there on this island with no natural predators they basically took over the islands they ate seabird eggs the native crabs whatever seeds and seedlings they could find and that was just rat island from there on out so uh back in 2011 the us fish and wildlife service conducted a rat eradication project they solved the problem they got rid of the rats you see santa barbara ecologist hillary young and her research group had already been tracking at that time another non-native species the coconut palm and they were sort of watching the coconut palm as it slowly began to invade areas uh it was it's considered invasive because it's not from that island but it's also impacts nesting seabird populations because it changes soil composition determining what trees can grow there and the birds i guess don't like these coconut palms to hang out in so they had plots there and they were monitoring trees in various stages of growth and survival and if you're at this at all this is quotey voice of anna miller tur kule i'm guessing graduate student researcher and lead author of the study that appears in the journal biotropica prior to the eradication most of the understory i guess that's the ground level of palm era was either bare ground sandy soil or coral rubble or covered in carpet of ferns there wasn't a whole lot of trees it was sort of barren there uh it turns out the rats were quick to eat seeds and young plants coming out of the ground they frequented the canopy as well often nesting in the coconut palms and even eating coconuts you can picture this lovely tropical looking island with palm trees filled with rats okay so rat eradication 2011 uh did kind of work for a lot of things the asian tiger mosquito that had shown up on the island left again didn't have the rats defeat on two species of land crab emerged that hadn't been there before it's changing the atolls biodiversity there the only thing is the foliage rebounded tremendously in coconut palm yeah turns out the rats were keeping down the coconut palm invasive species by eating all of their nuts and so they couldn't grow eating the little saplings as they would start and eating the coconuts right out of the trees they were basically uh keeping back the other pest huh so time to pull out the palm trees yeah that's what they're doing which one do you get rid of yeah palm trees there's apparently millions of them uh now yeah um it's become sort of a problem but uh this is sort of the interesting this is the the happy accident of the experiment is that they got to show an example of when you remove any species even if it's in an invasive species if it's established there are downstream effects that shift the ecology in other directions that you may not be anticipating so I think that is the key point also is the fact that biologists like to think they know the ecology of a habitat of an area all the things that are in it but there are usually not always but usually unforeseen consequences the ways that these or that organisms interact with each other it's this like it's like the the genes and the the markers in our genome related to health there are over 10 000 markers related to not health height there are over 10 000 markers related to height how they interplay and how they interact with themselves and with other things in the genome it's the same kind of thing the ecosystems are complex well and it's just like any problem you you can't almost ever boil it down to one thing right exactly it's always there's a there's always a multi-layered way to solve any problem yeah and there is a tendency to tackle these problems as a one species problem and you know it's the fish and wildlife and also an island or nature conservatory island conservatory groups that were involved in the eradication that identified the rat as a problem and what they can improve they weren't obviously tracking the foliage the the plant that you know so so even within them they saw no other species that this was going to conflict with in the animal kingdom and it looks like they're right the mosquitoes weren't native they're gone these other crabs move in all of that worked like aha but uh yeah it's slightly outside of your discipline just one adjacent you gotta look there too yeah it reminds me of our conversation couple years back with Jess Phoenix how she was talking about her project blueprint earth and how they're working on trying to get a blueprint for all of the different uh the yeah of ecosystems what are all the things that are there so it's not just you know the the wild the wildlife biologists talking about the wildlife by themselves and not talking about the plants with the plant biologists and then you have the you know the the crab biologists you know and that's the thing it's like if this had been anticipated if you if this had could have gotten put together and anticipated you could have pulled out many thousands of trees before you got rid of the rats instead of now millions and having the thing really so it's knowing that the things we're going to walk hand in hand allows you to be more proactive and use your resources better if you're trying to do a conservation effort yeah something that has been conserving its batteries has a big conservation effort is Voyager 2 the Voyager 2 spacecraft which has been traveling away from earth for more than 43 years is now 125 astronomical units away from earth astronomical unit is the distance from the earth to the sun it's 125 times the distance that we are from the sun right now it is at the it is outside of our solar system it is well it's moving out of our solar system into interstellar space it's out there it's been doing that and it was quiet for a very long time it's very quiet and it just called home yes so uh last week to test new hardware that was recently installed in the deep space network Voyager mission managers were able to send a series of signals to the spacecraft for the first time since march and Voyager 2 called home and said yeah mom yeah dad I got your message I'm out here I'm just fine you know just you know doing my my year abroad getting out there yeah so Voyager 2 is still doing well venturing out there beyond the solar system investigating the great beyond and it's just amazing that we have Voyager 1 Voyager 2 and now the new horizons mission that are really out there going out into the outer reaches of the solar system beyond our solar system and exploring yeah there's some new stories this week about thousands of earth like planets around or at least habitable potentially habitable planets around earth around stars like our own so if we could only get there but we can imagine and we can send our robots so Voyager is going out there we just found out we can hear back so that means that we can now grab some data from yes and we have been getting data from it on occasion but they've because they were updating things and doing some new dishes and software and stuff it's been a while since march that we've heard from Voyager 2 and you know in the times when Voyager is offline and not responding to our signals it's kind of you know it's just recording stuff but it's yeah it's got its batteries it's little nuclear power that it's that it's moving on and it's um yeah heading out there so this Voyager is gonna Voyager 2 is gonna keep sending us stuff but at some point it'll be too far away maybe well I mean it'll just take a long time for information to get back or there may actually yeah actually you're right at a certain point there is decay if the signal is not a strong enough signal to begin with then you have you have signal decay over time and space but it's going to be a long time I'm not like great about how many uh astronomical units because I think it's what like 90 million miles to the sun something like that I mean that's like 10 million miles away it's got it seems like it's got some range on it yeah yeah hopefully we can get it out to the old cloud radio shack and you could get like you just NASA went down and just got these little signal boosters used to be a thing it's really easy I mean that's the the technology that was used in the 60s and 70s we think of it as very basic but at the compared to modern technology and the strength of the computers and our handheld phones but what's really amazing to me is that because of the small and delicate nature of technology today it's more destructible so interstellar solar radiation can damage the uh you know technology that we use in the transistors in the the silicon ships that we use today so you have you have to use more shielding they have to be more protected and you know those old those old spacecraft that we sent up they didn't yeah they were radio it's like put them together let's get them out there and it's gonna keep going it's just solid parts they're gonna work just like this show which just keeps going and going episode after episode year after year oh hey if you want to help us keep going head over to twist.org and click on the zazzle link I mean buying stuff in our zazzle store will allow you to get some cool stuff but it's also gonna support our show and will help us keep going and do the things that we do also while you're there at twist don't forget we have our calendars for sale dun dun dun Blair did a good one okay should we talk about COVID now yeah time something something relaxing to talk about yeah finally can we can we because I don't know if I've been talking about anything but COVID for the last eight months dear oh dear all right there was some good news several months back about antibodies in llamas did you did you hear these stories about llamas having antibodies that could neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 virus perfect little antibodies well they have these llamas do they have these little antibodies that are called single domain nanobodies antibodies single domain antibodies otherwise known as nanobodies nanobodies are found in camels and llamas and apparently they had some good ones against SARS SARS-CoV-2 great well we can't go around harvesting these nanobodies from llamas because number one there aren't enough llamas and camels on the world it's expensive it's difficult to raise all the animals for all of the antibody that would be needed to neutralize infections in the entire global population what if I get my hands on a llama you gotta get your hands on a llama how much is that worth if I can get my hands on one oh everybody if you've got a llama lick your llama today I mean like your lava I mean never mind don't listen to me but listen to me about this science so researchers have been trying to figure out how to get the antibodies the nanobodies without using llamas without using camels and so they've been searching for synthetic versions of these nanobodies which are called psy bodies nanobodies to psy bodies and psy bodies could be potential alternatives well a group of researchers at EMBL Hamburg have used a platform of psy bodies to find some psy bodies that work to neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and so they think that this they had six they say six of their analyzed psy bodies sp12 sp23 sp20 42 sp76 sp95 and sp100 bound the the spike protein with fairly high affinities and these affinities are pretty good so the psy bodies would be less expensive easier to create than then getting them from llamas and they have the scientists performed a neutralization assay using a bunch of particles that were modified to carry the spike protein on the surface and they say that 36 psy bodies were screened for neutralization identifying 11 that are capable of neutralizing SARS-CoV-2 at a at a fairly high rate so they found one in particular sp23 it's a very potent neutralizer and we'll see where this goes not the llama bodies it's a psy body all right beyond psy bodies oh poor minks justin you made it you made it out of denmark but the minks are going to no but poor poor minks we've talked before about the other animals that have a high probability of succumbing to COVID infection COVID-19 infection humans cats minks are among them and can catch COVID-19 at a very high rate and in denmark now over one million mink have been culled in the country uh as as a concern for the mink and also that the mink will transmit the virus back to humans and could potentially be a sink where mutations in the virus could could take place big I believe it's already happened hasn't it I mean uh I I believe that there was an outbreak centered around mink farmers yes there has been okay yes so yeah it goes into the mink then there's the other means then it when it gets back into the humans you might be dealing with a slightly different SARS-CoV-2 than you had to begin with great that's not cool I mean maybe it would be the less transmissible version I don't know but less bad for you version of the mutations go all directions you want to watch that movie again I don't know no let's not do this again yeah but denmark is among the countries that has definitely put a call from from the government down on the mink farms to kill their animals because of concerns for infection which is bad news for minks but tell me about this leukemia super spreader Justin what's going on there okay so this is a case that uh study that details a leukemia patient who was actively shedding COVID for 70 days so this is a really long time to be actively shedding the virus yeah it's a really interesting it's sort of a really interesting case I mean not completely unique but but very interesting this is in the general cell it's an unusual case of a woman with leukemia and a very low antibody count who was infected with coronavirus for 105 days at least and was actively shedding that virus for at least 70 of those days all the while remaining asymptomatic the entire time despite being 71 years old something along that lines so this is uh this woman is I believe from Washington uh and was in a nursing home that was heavily hit one of those first one of the the first things we heard about with COVID was nursing homes in the Seattle area she's one of those so she had gone to the hospital despite having no symptoms from that for some other some other reason it was a anemia which is another thing that she had so she has immunocompromised immunocompromised chronic lymphatic leukemia she goes to hospital the rest they go ahead and test her because of where she was sure enough she's got the virus and so the first physician attending wanted to know if she was still shedding this virus if it was still so they got other people involved sure enough she has a monster who's one of the the authors of this study and one of the ones who's been tracking her says as much as that as far as he knows this is the longest case of anyone being actively infected with SARS COVID uh to while remaining asymptomatic we've seen similar cases with influenza and Middle East respiratory syndrome which is also caused by a coronavirus uh we expect to see more reports like ours coming out in the future and she was getting the PCR tests throughout this entire period so it was it was yeah apparently they think maybe because she's immunocompromised her body never made any antibodies but it also didn't have the inflammatory response it didn't have the inflammation that that that is the problem exactly it's like i can't i'm so i i've had enough yeah yeah resistance is futile yeah i won't resist oh well we'll keep looking you just get in there that's fine i'm just maxed out i can't take another thing i'm sorry but see now when we talk about testing here's a fantastic example of why absolutely you'd want to test because there could be asymptomatic meaning not coughing not sneezing no fever none of the issues that have been reported is associated with the illness but actively shedding for two and a half months how many people can there be who fall into this category who are super spreading everywhere they go but would never know it because they never got sick right yeah testing would be so important and yeah there are probably many more who have compromised immune systems in one way or another and yeah yeah well and this is also why right the the even though they say if you want to be safe you quarantine for two weeks after you might have been exposed or whatever but when we talk about if you did a real shutdown it would be more like six weeks is because you have to account for the fact that people spread longer than two weeks in in outliers yeah um final uh covid story for this week results published in the Lancet's e-biomedicine journal from the study of the lungs of 41 people who died from covid 19 in Italy found that their lungs were messed up there was uh the normal lung structure was distorted there was scarring of tissue and there was a lot of blood clotting in the arteries and the veins and the blood clotting of all of these together but the blood clots especially uh suggest a reason as to why the people we call long haulers take so long to recover from fatigue from shortness of breath and end up at a place that where it takes months for the lungs to recover and the uh and the blood clots to clear for normal lung function to happen again so this was a study out of the University of Trieste and Kings College London uh looking at these lungs from February to April all 41 had extensive lung damage 36 of the 41 had massive abnormal clotting in the lung arteries and veins and 90 ish of the lungs had a fusion of smaller cells into giant single cells with lots of nuclei like the the cells fused together um these are yeah this is caused by covid 19's spike protein this this fusion into what's called a syncytia and yeah it changes the the cell membrane structure stimulates the fusion of these cells with normal lung of infected cells with normal lung cells and that can lead to the structural changes there's then inflammation and this this blood clotting that we've been talking about so um this is a yeah a very a really interesting study actually digging into kind of what is happening in the lungs and potentially pointing to an explanation for long haul effects which we still really don't understand yet but one step at a time it's not pretty it's not pretty and you know what it hasn't magically disappeared yet and we'll keep talking about it as long as it's here and as long as we're learning about it just letting you know that's a reality check right now everybody additionally um there are uh many uh many of our listeners are in the UK and I know that England is potentially the UK is potentially going into a lockdown because of their covid situation at the moment so I would love to know how you and our audience feel about lockdowns what do you think I'd love to hear from you and uh to get an idea about the variety of thoughts that are out there about lockdowns so if you could write write to me or send a a twist message or should I do it should I do a twitter poll maybe I'll do a twitter poll yeah I'll do a twitter poll in the next five minutes and uh if you can all respond to my twitter poll it'll be out there and I'd love to hear from you um and if you're in the chat room right now you can let us know how you feel about lockdown and whether or not you think it's a night a good idea because we have talked about it a lot yes yes all right hey this is this week in science and if you want to help us grow maybe just maybe you could tell a friend about us today that would be really cool share us with your friends just like your favorite pair of socks no no that's not nope that's not right wait what no I'm not my favorite socks no maybe my second favorite or favorite I might consider but not my very favorite no share us with your friends just like a six pack there's enough twist to go around from six feet apart though from six feet apart yeah gosh darn it I'm just not going okay you know what time it is what is my time again it's a certain time of the day when we like to sing a song and talk about animals it's Blair's Animal Corner with Blair so we talked earlier about brightly colored bio fluorescing animals I want to talk about drab dull colored animals because those are the ones that you can see no yeah I mean I see it the same way you see it which is nice but when we think about birds birds yeah when you think about birds usually thinking about like parrots and birds of paradise and zebra finches and all sorts of fun colored birds but there are some birds that are kind of drab looking just kind of dull colored and it turns out that the way that they see colors might be different too so this is out of Duke University and they tested the ability of different birds to categorize colors and found that it is not universal across birds they selected eight colors varying continuously from orange to red so this is already something I would have failed and they made little discs with either one solid color or a combination of two colors birds were then trained to flip over the discs to show the two colored side in exchange for food so is uh set it no matter which side it landed on kind of randomly they have to change it so it has the half and half showing but the idea is the closer those two hues get to each other the harder it is to tell which side is solid and which side has the two colors so this is how they the researchers were able to look at what is called categorical perception so there's a continuous variation but we bin it into separate categories so I immediately started thinking about when I do the cat the calendar for example I have colored pencils that I use this year and I have a like 80 piece set of colored pencils and I arrange them in broigee biff basically in a in a in a rainbow but if you look at them you would still call it purple blue and I'm just naming colors in the wrong order now because that's how bad I am at colors there's a red section there's an orange section there's a yellow section right but as you get to those borders between the two like between orange and yellow there's some that are like not quite orange not quite yellow right but you still in your brain if you saw that separately you would call that orange or yellow you'd categorize it and so um feet in this study the female zebra finches who they started with presented with a continuum of orange red colors they categorize them in two distinct groups basically they saw red this is red and this is orange and this would track with their ability to see something that is relevant to them because they have orange and red beaks and so that would kind of correlate to their need in the wild so this is a signal of health where females are choosing their mate how brightly colored their their beakers so then they looked at bengalese finches they are brown black and white and they don't rely on colors when choosing a mate they actually rely on song when they're choosing mate so when they were presented with the same continuum of colors they showed no evidence of a threshold between orange and red this side is or this stuff is orange over here this section and that section over there is red instead they only picked discs that were on opposite sides of the continuum and totally different in hue so basically they were me right yeah they were like colorblind yeah so they paid more attention to the differences in brightness than the zebra finches so they were looking at brightness but in terms of the zebra finches they were just looking at brightness as a way to reinforce differences in hue for the zebra finches right so the way that these two different birds see the way that they see color seems to be very different or at least how they categorize color in their brain so as far as they can tell their eyes and their brains physiologically are not any different so it has to be about what's going on internally in their brain right exactly so it has to be somehow behavior related so the one of the things that they suggest is that bengalese finches and zebra finches are both domesticated but bengalese finches are more distant from wild finches in terms of how they were bred to look the way that they look and so it's possible that in the domestication process they have kind of lost the ability to perceive because it became less and less relevant so this there's one theory that it has to do domestication but the other theory is just that it's it's the whole nature versus nurture it's both thing so they have a lot of the same equipment to be able to see colors but it's not relevant to them as they grow up so this is they're brought this story because i actually think it's really relevant to what happened to me when i got my color blindness sunglasses so the way it works is when you get them you have to wear them for hours the first time you wear them before colors get to their full intensity and it's because you're using part of your brain you've never used before right it's not your eyes that need adjusting it's your it's your brain so the sunglasses fixed them the the physical problem and then your brain has to adjust has to like gain plasticity to acknowledge new data that it's never had before and so i think this this seemed very similar to that they might have the ability to see different hues but it's unnecessary for them and so they just they've never really put that much effort or thought into it right of course i'm anthropomorphizing now but basically it was not part of evolutionary success to be able to tell hues of color so so they don't have as much i don't know mental space mental energy practice any of these things that help them to categorize colors effectively so that's kind of the the the giant leap from this small study of two species of birds right so again this is a lot of speculation based on preliminary study there's a lot more that needs to happen they need to see if they can see something similar in wild birds or if they can expand it to more species of domesticated birds we know there's a lot of finches out there so you can just start pulling finch species and seeing how they can do with colors and if they have color signals in their mating process and you could kind of try to draw these correlations and go from there regardless of the the mating aspect there's also the side of it that food is colored it's not drab and being able to see color and recognize color and respond to color in the environment is that's an important thing right to be able to do so i think this when that's where this domestication thing could come in yeah so maybe it's compound right colored colored beads and seeded seeds in the that store-bought bird food that you feed the finches the finch mix but i guess evolutionarily speaking are you gonna die if you can't tell them apart no it's all edible there's no predators you just get fed and you shovel it into your mouth that's it so it seems like evolutionarily it might not matter to be able to see colors if you're a domestic species right but so again this would be a good reason to look at domestics versus wild birds and see if you see similar things but you know the the headline here is that the more dull colored species was not as good at telling colors apart which you know it seems like a pretty funny weird far out headline but the implications when you dig down into it are pretty interesting they are they're better at seeing muted variations in color that would be the that's what i would want to know are they yeah it's a good question yeah they did the same if they did the same thing with or if they did the same thing but with different types of patterns right like are they better at catching up on other visual cues yeah great question i find i find it very interesting because then there's like the flamboyant cuttlefish with all those colors and it's amazing eyes so you know the flamboyant cuttlefish is like let me see everything i have multiple color receptors and yeah right but then like if given enough time or domestication processes or whatever would would the flamboyant cuttlefish become drab cuttlefish yeah or would they stop recognizing flamboyants heaven forbid never never never never well speaking of flamboyants how about um a fish surfing on a whale underwater yes tell me more so this is a study from a team of an international team of researchers that they set out to study the fluid environments of blue whales so originally they wanted to see um they wanted to do fluid dynamic analysis of whales they could see what could be used as a basis to better understand behavior energy use ecological health of the species and ways to improve tagging and tracking of whales and other migratory animals for future studies but what instead they found was surfing underwater fish so this is from you know underwater fish as opposed to above water fish oh boy um remora fish they're they're all they're also called uh suckerfish because they have a sucker powered suction disc on their head and they are known to stick to the body of sharks or other large marine life like whales and in the researchers studying the fluid environments of blue whales they were this is off the coast of san diego they were able to capture the first ever continuous recording of remora behavior on a host organism and they did that with biosensing tags with a video recording capabilities so they they were able to have these kind of long-term data points of not just visuals on these surfing um fish but also the fluid dynamic stuff that i talked about before comes into play because how as a fish do you hang onto a whale as it's swimming which is pretty fast very and and very carefully and they move around while it's happening so kind of like the the surfer who's switching around his his position his or her position and like going up on their hands and stuff well in this case um the remoras move around they feed they socialize they move all around that whale as it's swimming how the heck are they doing that without getting flown off into the ocean well um they they have they have some really intense fluid dynamics working in their in their favor as they are sucked onto the whale um so the whales sometimes go more than five meters per second pretty fast um and so the it all comes down to the drag on the whale first of all they select the best spots on the whale which if you're remora the best spots to hang 10 or hang 20 i guess in i don't know it uh right behind the blow hole and then also um behind the pectoral fin and behind the dorsal fin and so these are the areas that uh i guess because there's you know the fins make sense because they're they're reducing drag right right in front they're they're catching all the water that's moving and then the blow hole there's there's in and out move or there's out movement so i guess that's also going to create plus i think there's a little cusp on the blow hole so that's all going to mess with the fluid dynamics around um that area so it reduces drag so the drag is actually pretty low so if they hover off of the whale for a second they're not just going to get pulled away in the current but they also um can move around to those different positions out on the whale so you can see those of you watching um the video that kiki's playing right now they can move all over that whale at about one centimeter above the whale's skin and so the way they do that is i'm going to say a whole bunch of sciency things now bear with me go science okay in this narrow space between the remora and the whale when fluid is funneled into a narrow space it moves at higher velocity but has lower pressure so it is not going to push the remora away it actually sucks it back towards the host so they can swim up into the free stream to grab a bite of fruit food and then come right back down to the boundary layer and it takes more energy to swim into the free stream flow than it does to just move around where the whale is this is called the venturi effect yeah this is fluid dynamics fluid dynamics used by boats and planes and all sorts of things yes this is and now we know by remoras and it's basically once the remora is a passenger it stays a passenger because yeah it's just the best place to be absolutely and so now uh researchers can take this knowledge and use it to adjust how they tag whales because uh when they do tag whales and other large aquatic animals they often have all sorts of problems either they're too bulky they might impact their behavior they fall off in a couple of days and that's a huge amount of money and time and effort to catch that animal to tag it and then it's gone after two days so if they can use this in this information to make a new kind of tag that would be a great way to collect long-term data um and also it's just yeah it answers a lot of questions about the remoras they um they've only ever had pictures still images and anecdotal evidence of this behavior so this is the first time it's been caught on tape Kevin Jones in the chat room asking for a friend what happens to them when whales breach that might be especially they they they breach but then they kind of like slap the water pretty hard when they come down maybe that's the whale's way of saying that too many so I would I would wager a guess that the remora can probably feel the upward movement and would scoot over to the pectoral fin so that a lot of time the pectoral fin does not breach so they might be able to move their position on the whale so as to stay on when they breach I don't know it's when they when they're going fully out this question I don't know they might not make it I don't know but if you're just hanging on and you're a passenger why not I mean fish can be a fish out are they are they doing this are they like cleaning the whale I I bet the whales don't even know they're there although actually to answer that question about the cling I do have a bit of actual numbers about that so um um the uh the force of a remora suction is about 11 to 17 newtons um and the the force that a remora experiences when um they are in the most intense place on the whale underwater again is 0.14 newtons so they're hanging on pretty tight there yeah just you know engineering overkill that's the way yeah yeah well behind the blowhole where they hang out the most it's only 0.02 newtons so yeah definitely unnecessary but maybe that's why maybe it's for the breach no no overengineering oh maybe all about the breach yeah let's go into the breach with patreon if you would like to support this weekend science you can help us keep doing what we do by heading over to twist.org and clicking on that patreon link and choosing your level of support with your help we can keep bringing a sane perspective a science perspective to the world that is kind of full of misinformation and disinformation right now so be a part of helping us to combat that and bring science to the world thank you for your support on patreon thank you for your support of twist we really can't do this without you we can't coming on back right now it is time for Justin what stories do you have so this story was sent in to twist by Minion Dave who reminds everyone time flies like an arrow fruit flies like a banana uh this is from the max plank institute for evolutionary anthropology researchers have analyzed the genome of the oldest human fossil ever found in mongolia 34 000 year old woman uh who they uh the dna analysis show inherited about 25 of her dna from western eurasians uh demonstrating that once upon a time people could travel internationally uh ancient dna extracted from the skull cap shows that it belonged to a female human who lived 34 000 years ago and was more related to asians and europeans but had that connection still comparisons to the only other really early eastern age or east asian individual uh who was genetically studied today uh as a 40 000 year old individual who was found in a cave outside of beijing china shows that those two individuals are related to each other although the beijing fossil does not have the western eurasian relationship in its ancestor interestingly both individuals carry dna from denise events the extinct hominids that inhabited asia before modern humans arrived there quotey voice this is uh direct evidence that modern human communities in east asia were already quite cosmopolitan earlier than 34 000 years ago says diendo massilini uh lead off to the study and a researcher at the max plank institute for evolutionary anthropology this rare specimen shows that migration and interactions among populations across eurasia happened frequently already some 35 000 years ago researchers used new method developed by the max plank institute for evolutionary anthropology to find segments of dna from extinct hominids and other genomes they found the two genomes not only contain deniseven dna but also dna from neanderthal which is also interesting because deniseven neanderthal are sort of themselves ancient cousins uh that split off long before current modern humans got to the area but it also shows a path perhaps of out of africa mingling with neanderthal then keep going mingle with deniseven uh keep going uh so anyway researchers report in the journal science and it is just continuing evidence that regardless of where you are on the planet humans are a braided stream of evolution that isn't just the current modern human evolution braidedness either but includes all sorts of archaic and other ancient human offshoots that cycle back into the the genome that makes us us i like to be us i'm glad there were lots of others before us to make us us it's a cool find very very cool i'm i'm acting as i'm thinking heavily i'm going to my next story but it's taking a moment to look ah according to national and student mental health there we go good move okay according to the national and student mental health more than 17 million people in the united states and 300 million people worldwide have experienced major depression the rest of humans are just shallow and unthinking people just don't have feelings small study this is a very small study of adults with major depression john hopkins medicine researchers report that two doses of the psychedelic substance psilocybin given with supportive psychotherapy produced rapid and large reductions in depressive symptoms most participants show improvement and half of study participants achieving remission through a four week follow-up so remission and something like this is uh more than you expect from any form of therapy or treatment or medicine that is on the market so to speak compound which is found in so-called magic mushrooms psilocybin can produce visual and auditory hallucinations sometimes profound changes in consciousness and perspective over just a few hours of ingestion back in 2016 john hopkins john hopkins medical medicine researchers first reported that yeah a treatment with psilocybin under psychologically supported conditions relieved anxiety and depression in people with life-threatening cancer diagnoses now the findings from a new study this is published in jama psychiatry suggests that psilocybin may be effective in a much wider population of patients who suffer from major depression than previously previously appreciated although it's it's just extrapolating from you cancer patient psychology shouldn't be that different than general public psychology when it comes to anxiety and depression small group only 24 individuals 67 showed a more than 50 percent reduction in their depression symptoms at the one week follow-up 71 showed the reduction at the four week follow-up overall four weeks post treatment 54 percent of patients were considered in remission meaning they were no longer qualified to be called depressed that's amazing really incredible so amazing this is one of those this is one of those things that was initially used and we've talked about this in the past initially used in a psychiatric environment with amazing effects then fell into the hands of counterculture and ran up against the government that was afraid of counterculture and so was made illegal it was technically just legalized in the state of Oregon in Oregon where I'm located yeah it's as well as for research part it's been opened up there for research purposes yeah it's for um it's for medical treatment so research purposes and for for medical treatment for conditions like depression and anxiety I think also it's not for recreational use yeah I think also mushrooms have been decriminalized in Washington DC which in Oregon we also decriminalized I think all recreational drugs every election yeah it's I think it's interesting that the way medicine pharmaceuticals I guess I should say has kind of moved in the in the in the modern era is like you have all these natural remedies that have been used historically by native cultures and all sorts of people and then they cut there's kind there was a push to distill down exactly what chemical it was or find a chemical compound and make it synthetically so there's this huge kind of swing that way and now we're developing kind of a little bit of a swing back where we're looking at the natural origins of things and maybe that's not so bad which I think is great it's as a pendulum always works we should really be in the middle we should be looking at like the scientific implications of a thing and then you know maybe not trying to mess with it too much because now we know like maybe you find what you think is the thing in the mushroom that is the beneficial thing but if you make it in a lab maybe it won't work the same way as the mushroom did so there's yeah I don't know I think I'm a lot more I'm a lot more cynical you know I'm a my understanding is the part of why cannabis was was removed from uh being used as medicine and pain relief was because uh there were pharmaceutical companies that you know couldn't patent it but did have a patent on something else they wanted to sell that's that's where this this one didn't really kind of run up against that this one got made illegal while research was showing how useful it was for a completely sort of societal political kind of reason but then we get back then we leap forward into what would it be the late 80s early 90s when we have all of these psychotropic drug pharmaceutical drugs that are meant to deal with anxiety and depression some of which can create you know lead to suicides other problems and tons of other problems addiction yeah like all sorts of problems yeah I I don't remember so much the addiction ones but I remember a lot of the there was a lot of mental health side effects that came with I mean I remember the tremendously horrible stories about teenagers committing suicide while on antidepressants right um because they had these horrible side effects this is one that hasn't been known to have those side effects there's another one that also said that it increased empathy that seemed to last uh for many many years after somebody used this like having like did we put this in the water but um yeah this has always been this is always we've talked about this I don't know maybe a dozen times over the years uh this is always one of the those those available treatments that has been clinically shown to have a tremendously positive effect and has been illegal for the recreational aspect and why must there be that sort of line there at all why can't you still make fun is fun is fun is bad fun is yeah recreation with your brain is bad because then you're not producing with your brain producing is good for something forbid that we all think for ourselves but uh but this is moving this is moving tangentially away from the science but yeah it's very it's very exciting it's exciting lot has changed the law has changed the law has changed in Oregon so the science is actually going to be able to be pursued yes after a 60 year hiatus from reason uh so yeah hopefully it yeah hopefully it leads to research happening here in Oregon hopefully federal law does not come in and uh negatively impact this this state decision but yeah we'll see I mean yeah we'll see where it goes things that can help people are always a good thing uh let's talk about helping people changing people's minds do you know how much corporations change our minds so it's ridiculous it's really really ridiculous how much corporations are changing our minds influencing our decisions sometimes without us even knowing it a researcher published a new study this week in the journal new media and society researcher uh dr tenesia is a professor of media at illinois and the co-author woo is a professor of media culture and communication at nyu their study is called going with the flow nudging attention online and the in the title flow that they reference is a con concept that used to be applied to radio and television the audience flow and that was something that was defined by programmers who programmed the content for television and radio nowadays we've got all a cart stuff and you can hop from netflix to amazon prime to you know hulu to youtube to you know wherever to get your content um but there used to be a very directed flow that would take people through the evening and keep people on their channels and watching their shows and seeing their advertisements and hopefully buying things and having certain perceptions and perspectives as a result of seeing what they watched there um and so they wanted to take that and apply it to the internet and to see whether or not there are predictable patterns of how people go from website to website and how that happens and so they took a bunch of data from a company a data a data research company com score back in october 2015 and their sample was based on one million internet users users including 1761 websites that reached at least one percent of the us users during that month and then because of all this data they were able to identify clusters or constellations of uh of websites that represented sequences that were common within behavioral patterns for users for browsers and it was all browsing behavior that was linked to corporate ownerships partnerships and website types the researchers say that they identified 11 clusters and the anchor sites within these clusters that served as the common starting points for how people start their browsing and get going and among the clusters are bing microsoft which is anchored by bing and msn content sites google cluster of course anchored by google search a lot of us use that and the chrome browser youtube and gmail and a social media cluster that's anchored by facebook twitter and linkedin and then there were two other clusters the yahoo cluster and the aol cluster that served they surprised the researchers because nobody thought they were going to still be relevant but they think it's possibly because of older users using these clusters there were hey i am part of the yahoo cluster do you search with yahoo no i don't oh okay i don't search with it no i google everything i almost only google i don't try i don't even like results when i get results from other browsers i'm like that's not how google would give it to me that's not how i like that go away there were some other clusters too some uh they were surrounding data solicitations retailers that use city bank as their bat their uh their banking back end pornography sites job search and travel these were various browsing clusters and there were four methods that corporations nudged online users and this is the word that they use throughout the study is this nudging that corporations are using uh technology using uh the the websites they're using wording they're using all back end stuff to nudge people in certain directions online and we're not always aware of all of this then these methods um they're at a different level of visibility and control and so the highest was content ranking and curation and so search engines and social media do that uh you know you do the google search what's at the top of the algorithm the search engines are basically ranking things and telling you where to go uh search uh social media also have an algorithm that tells you what to look at based on what they think you should look at then there's hypertext these are words that are linked within the text and additionally um those the nudge is visible but i guess the users don't have as much control third type of nudge is employed by microsoft through software configurations that are built into the windows operating system itself like making being the company browser search engine and home page um all by default and that when it's in there people aren't necessarily going to change it right whatever's on your computer you're like i just use what's here and so that nudges people into certain browsing patterns and then finally is the back end databases and software that's e-commerce like citybank and there's credit card payment retailers and then um additionally there's all sorts of stuff that's you know on the marketing side of things where there are funnels some people talk a lot about funnels that you get pushed down if you click certain links moving certain directions so really it's that people don't see the internet as a space that operates in um this kind of behavior directing way people think they're directing their own behavior on the web but there are actually lots and lots of ways in which we are being nudged by the corporations in the world that own the pipelines that own the web spaces to do what they want us to do welcome to the machine what did you dream it's all right we told you what to dream the machine yeah welcome to the machine everybody oh oh yeah and then um in last kind of cool story that has nothing to do with nudging but it's awesome there's a bunch of researchers who did a bunch of calculations on black holes and trying to figure out the black hole information paradox there's like a bunch of papers that just came out and they've been calculating and calculating and um i looked at i didn't understand it at all yeah i don't know that i understand it understand they made it sound very exciting yes but i did not understand it well the question is what happens to information when it goes into a black hole and hawking and others they decided to use quantum theory to describe matter in and around black holes and that gravity would also have to be described um using uh using quantum theory and there's a hybrid approach like hawking and his colleagues they they they thought they figured it out but basically they're wrong they're not completely right and through not really looking at it as only einstein's classical or only quantum theory calculations and actually Leonard seskin helped illustrate all this too yes yeah it's it's basically over time they found that new gravitational they found new gravitational configurations that hawking didn't include and they dominate they get to be more prominent when a black hole gets really old so black holes age everything gets older and as black holes age apparently they don't want to hold on to information anymore and it goes from being this quantum system where gravity is treated in a quantum fashion when they're young to it just being gravity and information going in and coming out and they don't really know exactly how all that happens but when when black holes are really old they're just like in one ear and out the other they just do not want to hold on to anything so they're just like spitting information out all over the place um but this is the this is the new idea it's this new calculation based on a hybrid combination of physics ideas uh but yeah it doesn't like an analogy with like a pool table uh uh uh a rubber mat and um a swinging pendulum maybe i don't know maybe yeah the worst one the worst i just like thinking of really old black holes who are just like down here yeah and they spit it out whatever the worst analogy was the one where it's like okay so you have a bathtub full of water and you put a couple of drops of food coloring in then you mix it up how do you get that uh information out again i don't why would you even check i don't yeah uh maybe it's maybe this is something we should reach out to one of our uh physicist friends to try to come and explain this slow explain me yes well maybe we can get Ethan back on he's fan Ethan seagull is pretty fantastic at that absolutely um and then leading us out of the show we do have a question for tonight this is from fada fada says here's my head scratcher ponderer for your twist user question section this question either shows i'm incredibly brilliant for thinking of something no one else has thought to do or i'm kind of really stupid and have no idea what i'm talking about or how astronomy actually works either way i think it's a fun thing to ponder so when our best visual telescopes view phenomena in our galaxy and the universe be they the mount wilson observatory the sero paranoid perinol or sero tollo observatories of Chile the Hubble space telescope or the future james webb space telescope we have to deal with the fact that due to the whole speed of light thing what we're looking at is a snapshot of how whatever whatever object we're looking at looked that many light years ago that it is distance from us so when we're looking at like the pillars of creation nebula we're not looking at how it looks now we're looking at how it looked seven thousand years ago because it is seven thousand light years from earth and it took its light seven thousand years to reach us when we look at the andromeda galaxy we're actually looking at what that galaxy looked like two point two and a half million years ago for all we know any of these objects could have ceased to exist by now so the question is given our best guest as to where the universe universe's center is moving away and expanding from the big bang and given that we could estimate the general path or arc of our milky way galaxy away from that original big bang and a universal expansion would it be possible to get to a point with a to point a powerful visual telescope like the Hubble back along that path that our galaxy has traversed from the universal center and actually take an ancient picture of our own galaxy from thousands or millions of years ago like a galactic selfie where's this one gonna fall best right we're supposed to answer that question yeah what do you think Justin uh so i think what we would have to do is travel at the speed of light maybe faster i don't mean to go really far away and take a bit so here's the thing we're taking a selfie we already have a nice selfie of the milky way which should be satisfied with it we should go ahead and use it as our profile it's when we shoot towards the middle we're out in the rules it's basically like right there like kiki did right there yeah the her selfie her hand isn't in the picture and she takes a picture right she's missing her hand she's missing the entire backside of her probably is only you know shoulders up uh ish uh so really the picture you get even with a good selfie isn't that great um and so the the just focusing on our milky way is basically the best selfie we're ever gonna get uh of the of milky ways our own center um i feel like you'd have to go too far well i guess if you had an infinitely you have to go ahead you have to have that you have to have a telescope that's like way better than anything we have right because i think it's it's all a matter of if you're talking about light years telescopes are fine you have to travel you have to take the telescope many many many right no that's the way it is yeah i think what he's asking is if you can you look back we're in orbit around earth with a telescope could you point it at a direction where you could see the milky way before now no so even though you're you're currently in it you can't no we're in it so we can't see it before it was here because so yeah but that's the question right is that because of the speed of light like basically the question of like um when you do a panoramic and you can get yourself in the picture three times right because you the as you move the camera you run around and go to another spot right so it's that question basically can you do that with the milky way because of the speed of light but i think it's too far it would you have to be able if you had a telescope that was so incredibly sensitive no it would have to be faster than the speed of light to go back to that point in time to be able to take a picture there and then come back yeah okay so so the idea is it's sort of like evolution and we talk about how i evolved the thing is everything's just as evolved it's just maybe changed more or less than something else um those things that we are seeing that are very far away that we're seeing tens of thousands of millions of years in the billion billion years into the past is it the same point in time that we are it's just we can't see it because the all we've seen is this light that's taken so long to get here that doesn't mean that's where it is now it's just the sort of after image of it that's coming at us and then that image after image is gone it's not still persistent in space it's not sort of stuck there in space unless you're even further away i guess moving we're moving yep yeah um i also feel like you know it's like i don't have any selfies from when i was a baby my parents did take pictures of me but that's because they were there then but i didn't have a camera when i was a baby and i can't go back to when i was a baby and take a selfie of myself now that's time travel but the answer is also yes you could if you could if you could go a little faster than the speed of light and move yourself a billion years away a billion light years away and look back at where our solar system or galaxy is but i guess that you would be seeing that light uh getting there uh from our past but you would have to have gotten to your destination faster than the speed of light because you'd have to beat the light that's traveling out there well i think it's all about i think the relative distance is the problem right because so basically the question would be like if it took um 10 years to take a picture okay and i right now or i guess it took 10 years for a picture to get back to me and i right now took a picture of um sonoma county and like it like zoom in right and this is a picture from 10 years ago am i in that picture because i was in sonoma county 10 years ago right that's that's the question i think is like if you could point a camera from earth's orbit at the position of where the milky way was a million light years ago that we're not there now though so we can't capture that light right and that's the answer is that because we're not physically there now that's really the key because we're not physically there now there's nothing to capture we would have had to take that picture then and we just wouldn't get the picture until now yeah yep oh the other other way you could do it is you can bend a time machine that could travel in time but not space meaning it stays in the same point of space relative to where it was you can travel a million years into the past but not move in space and then look back and you could see where the milky way was a million years ago that's the problem with time trial i know i've talked about this before if you go back in time 24 hours different place or forward 24 hours the earth the sun every the solar system is a totally different place you're and if you don't have a spaceship to get back you just did in the coldest space that's why time trial has been invented literally a hundred times it's just every time they've tried it out they've they've blinked themselves out into the coldest space and died that's not the first tesla that's out there by the way we know what we know what that we know what really happened there so so what we should do is what would be awesome is to get a picture now of something here and then beam it out into space somewhere that the earth is going to be oh yes like 10 000 years to see if someone can pick up that signal that would be the way to do it transmit a picture to the future from the past if you could go twice the speed of light uh maybe go you'd be going backwards in time i guess because you could get out past uh i love lucy show if you did that for 80 years and wait for it and then you could watch uh movies coming from uh earth television broadcast from earth but you have to go i mean that's why that's the whole idea of going faster than the speed of light breaks all the rules because that is actually backwards uh time travel yeah the way we the way that we determine where anything is or where anything is in time and exists is basically based on the speed of light if anything moves faster yeah you would be seeing the universe uh earlier in time just in time it's the end of the show yeah we've made it to the end of our show thank you everyone for listening and if you have a moment and you haven't bought a twist calendar yet head over to twist.org and click on the froggy toad and buy a twist calendar for 2021 blair has made arts for you it's time now for the shout outs i would love to shout out to people who help support the show shout outs to fada shout outs to identity for shout outs to gourd thank you for all the things that you do for the show and thank you to the boroughs welcome fund and our patreon sponsors for their generous support as well thank you to donathan styles aka don stylo john shioli geom john lee alikoff and matty parent gaurav sharma jizaya zaynor mike shoemaker sarah four four donald mundas jerald sorrell steven alberon darryl myshac stu polyc andrew swanson fredes 104 karin benton skylie paul roenevich ben bignell kevin reardon noodles jack bryan kerrington matt bass joshua furie shonanina lamb gret john mckay greg riley marqueson flow gene telea steve leesman ken haze howard tan christopher rappin richard brendon minnish melisand johnny grindley flying out richard porter christopher drier mark mesaru sardium greg briggs john atwood robert rudy garcia davilkinson rodney lewis paul matt sutter matt philip shane curt larson craig landon mountensloth jim drapo sarah chavis alex wilson john ratness wami su doster jason olds dav neighbor coast d rankie matthew litwin eric nap e o kevin parochan erin luthan steve debel bob calder marjorie paul stanton paul disney pat patrick pecoraro ben rothig greary gary s 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science this week in science it's the end of the world so i'm setting up shop got my banner unfurled it says the scientist is in i'm gonna sell my advice show them how to stop the robots with a simple device i'll reverse global warming with a wave of my hand and all it'll cost you is a couple of grams in your way so everybody listens to what i say i use this and i'll broadcast my opinion all of science this week in science this week in science science science this week in science this week in science this week in science science science i've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what i say may not represent your views but i've done the calculations and i've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just yet understand that we're not trying to threaten your philosophy we're just trying to tweak in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science laundry list of items i want to address from stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness i'm trying to promote more rational thought and i'll try to answer any question you've got the half can i ever see the changes i seek when i can only set up shop one hour to what we say and this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science we've come to the end of the hour and we get more songs more music more songs hey chat room i see you hot rod i got the email i did i'm sorry i didn't email back yet i did get your email yes thank you thank you things look very cool yes yes yes how is everybody out there how's it going justin took a break just looking at my phone don't worry about it yet come come wait vegas no no don't tell me nevada's going i haven't seen anything no nothing's changed okay good nothing has changed everyone went to bed in nevada i think they're like we'll deal with it tomorrow it's fine they can wait like nobody's nobody's stressed about it they can wait what's one more day between nations it's fine it's fine it's fine thank you fana i i just don't know if everyone out there uh shubrew was asking me earlier if i was wearing my bathing my my my bathrobe because earlier it was like after lunchtime and i was still in my bathrobe i have not yet gotten dressed i was curled up in my bed for a long time this morning and then i started working but i didn't actually get dressed to start working just stayed in my pajamas and my happens yeah it was one of those days it's flexible if you don't have any video chats nobody knows i had none i had none it's just it was it was a mood and i think there are other people who are feeling the mood out there as well right it's all it all happens later slippers until noon very nice i know i'm allowed to be in my bathrobe and i will have to let you know that this cardigan sweater that i have right now is very bathrobe like cozy and it has pockets and it's long one more in sweatpants so it's fine yeah i can't tell today today is the day hey my friend gave me his t-shirt oh yes i got a t-shirt for my friend that's a good one i thought that's what that t-shirt was it is what that t-shirt is yes slippers all day long right now i'm barefooted is it barefooted or barefeeted my barefeeted bare bare feet identity for i had bunny slippers until my friend's dog ate them now i don't have bunny slippers i should get myself some new bunny slippers um so first my mom and then my dad later were sales reps for the bare feet slippers oh yeah bears yeah they so they look like bear paws and they have the the nails on them and everything and the bottom of the slipper has the paw print so they were the sales rep for for those for like the 80s and 90s that's funny yeah so we had lots of them but we don't have any i'm so sad we don't have any anymore slippers get old i mean yeah i just you don't know in the moment sweaty that like this thing that you're doing is going to be like a a thing later that could be worth a lot of money you know i bet you could sell some of those for pretty i think they're still at uh the black bear diner do they seem yeah i've seen bear yeah it's all bear themed i feel like they're not as good these are very like high quality you haven't seen them i love that i love that i love the team uh the team loyalty though that's fantastic carol an i love this idea someone needs to invent a robe that has a camel back with a thermos of coffee with a straw okay it wouldn't be it wouldn't be a camel back it would be like maybe it would be down like the sides underneath your arms that'd be like keep you warm in your sides and yeah and then the struggle purpose or you can keep it oh yeah yeah so i have seen these at black bear and yeah they're not as good you've seen the camel but oh no the the slippers the the bear slippers sorry i'm uh i'm one step behind you all garb charming thank you uh to understand crocs uh is a thing that is tougher than that black hole stuff that we were just uh getting treated i also don't understand why anybody wears crocs let's create a plastic i mean some people really foot humidity to the extent it just it seems like a bad i'm a very good friend that wears the like sherpa lined ones in the winter they have like the lambs wool inside of it or whatever that's warm yeah funny and they have the what are they called giblets or something or the little ones those are the pins that go into the holes nope oh my god i'm just gonna say no not a broony nope good night fata i always end up going outside of my socks because i'm too lazy to put my shoes on i feel like shoes are right next to the door and i'm like i'm just going outside come back inside leaves and sticks stick into the bottom of my feet what do you go outside for you have to i don't know take the garbage out once a week i'm happy to have the dog back in yeah if i didn't have the dog i feel like i'd never go outside yeah so no out shoes outside shoes in homes in scandinavia i am a no outside shoes in the house kind of person also uh yeah that's much more civilized it's a thing that uh i don't think was a thing when i was growing up but is a thing in like most households in america or that i know most households in california seem to be that way at least for sure oh i see some i see some calendar purchases there are some calendar purchases nice all right nice nice yeah so california uh voting stuff is there anything that you are excited about having been passed in california i haven't looked at the props today so i heard it didn't go how maybe it for a deep blue state it's a very not uh progressive voting pattern and all the ballot is complicated california voted down this the one that i'm the only one that i'm like the most care about like i get it like the the drivers should be employees it should be get access to benefits and other things like this and that was but there was a billion dollars spent against it so californians voted down the ability for communities in california to vote on uh rent control yeah we're voting to implement rent control the ballot measure was to allow communities to vote whether or not they would want rent control whoa and it got voted down and in the midst of what has been a decades long housing crisis in california an affordability crisis in california the people of california voted down their own ability to decide whether or not their community was right or needed rent control is that something that and is it now like a law on it's going to be a law on the books that no it's been a lot vote for it no it's been a law on the books that they can't it's been a loss it was getting rid of that 80s or something that they can't it was to get rid of that ridiculous law and make it so that communities could could choose to so they said no we don't want the right to decide whether or not it's right for our community we want to reject the ability for communities to have a voice and a vote overly utterly ridiculous that's interesting it is and and it's come up a few times and it gets shut down and it's always very moneyed interests against it it's always proposed is this is going to lower everybody's housing value blah blah blah it is the most you know whenever you see somebody voting against a thing that very much they themselves need you're like somehow you got nudged yep enough away from your best interest yep by some sort of nonsense that was intentional but the it's like it's almost as if it's like california would you like to vote not to have a vote in your next election yeah i'm tired of having to show up just vote for me decide for me i don't want to have a voice that's what the vote was it wasn't for rent control anywhere it was just for the right to vote on it but i bet that that's the problem i bet a lot of people thought they were voting for or against rent control yeah yeah no because people are low information exactly it's like the legalese is is designed to be confusing yeah it's like how many words can we use we're going to use 50 words to describe something that could be explained in seven so that people don't not don't don't not do forthwith it shall be allowed i do believe that the five billion dollars uh to spend on stem cell research was approved that's great that's good that's fantastic yep eric in alaska saying put on putting on my libertarian hat here rent control doesn't really work as intended it tends to add additional distortions into a distorted market new york it's a great example san francisco also a big example of rent control for sure i agree with that eric but i think that the big point there is voting against your right as a community to vote on the issue so it's just now it's just on the books in california that you can't vote for it at all so here's here's here's the big argument i have voting against your right to vote for being able to vote for rent control is simply if you live in a community where where the majority of the people own their homes and might own a second home and rent it chances are it's not going to pass if you live in a community where the majority of people in the community do not own the property but it is a almost you know probably 60 percent or more rental uh population meaning the people who own the property probably don't live in that community uh that's when that shift needs to take place that's when you need to be able to vote rent control in to a community that has has been uh unaffordable to everybody living there in terms of purchasing that's why it's important the other thing you have to understand is one of the reasons that the stock market's been booming in the time of an economic hardship is because uh wallstreet is banking on buying up foreclosures buying up properties of people who are renting who had a second property renting and they couldn't rent it anymore above their mortgage because the people they're renting to lost their jobs they're buying those properties with hard money out of wallstreet investment funds and they're going to rent them back to us in perpetuity forever and it's been a movement that it's very visible in california where corporate and hedge fundy operations are buying up properties and renting them back so you have communities where you have i don't know it's just ratcheting it up more more more more yeah it's and that's sort of why our forefathers of our countries wherever they came from probably left where they left is because people couldn't afford to own property it was owned by the king or the state or the you know the entrenched so anyway that's my biggest disappointment it was that one yeah yeah low information people so many it's i have to say though like you should be able to read through one page of information on a prop and be able to decide if you want to vote for it or not the fact that you have to read multiple pages to get into the nitty-gritty of what it is and then read an entire page of the pro and then an entire page of the con and then a rebuttal to the con and then a rebuttal to the pro and then you have to research who has written the pros and the cons to then decide if they're full of it or like if they have the same i thought the ballot the ballot paperwork this year was the most ridiculous i'd ever seen because i looked at it and uh first i had to go grab my other glasses and a magnifying glass but but it was yeah it was just endless like wait the magnifying glass when you have that many words i feel like somebody's hiding the lead and you have to read it on it gets 100 percent yeah why can't it why can't these things be written in like summarized summarized like do you want to be able to vote about a law in your community yes no 250 words max and like could be language it could be they're doing on purpose but yeah and again i'm also saying this from the perspective of just having come from a nice socialist Scandinavian country where they don't have homeless people yeah they still have people who are mentally ill you see them walking down the street talking to themselves but it takes a second look because they're well they're not bringing all of their worldly belongings with them because they have some place to live it's a very different well i mean and i think it was salt salt lake no st louis is it was an s l maybe it was st louis i don't remember but there was a there was a city in america um somewhere between california new york i don't recall um um that they yeah they they house their homeless that was oh it was salt lake okay salt lake city spent the money and they're like hey actually that was way cheaper than yeah all this stuff that we've been doing not to mention like people then were able to get jobs because they had an address and then they ended up a lot of them moving out into the just like the general stream of apartments it is such an obstacle help and support it's huge it's huge don't make it an obstacle that's why we gotta get the psilocybin in the mushroom yeah yeah psilocybin in the water supply and empathy being taught in the schools um there i've seen some really interesting writing though on empathy that i find just if and i think uh what was his name brian hair was talking about it a little bit um when we talked with with him about about his book for like three hours um he but there's been some writing on how empathy is people have thought for a really long time it's great because you're able to like see from others perspectives but what people recently have been saying is that we're not teaching it in the same way anymore and instead of teaching people to empathize with others who are not like them and to be able to empathize with people in very different positions and conditions in society um the empathy is there we have a lot of it everybody has it except it's now being focused on those that are like us and so it's more we're more empathetic to someone who is like us who has had something bad happen to them so for instance you lost your job or because of you know some factory getting shut down or you know whatever whatever or you're you're empathetic with a family because like your family they didn't have health care and have uh massive health have massive health care bills um and so our empathy has now started becoming more uh driving us to greater tribalism because we're not using it to understand others in the way that we can this is why i need to get hired someday as a political consultant for for putting policy out there because i can describe that exact same result uh and desired result from an empathetic uh perspective from a completely selfish perspective you can you can address it through the fear uh that some people naturally are more likely to respond for do you want people who do not look like you who are desperate for food and money or belongings living in your community or would you rather that they be given the just basic necessities and never bother you like like if that's what it takes like that's what it's just you know like talk to them in the language that they can understand would you rather that everybody has the basic things that they need so that you don't have to desire yours they don't care about your stuff yeah yeah it's not i mean if that's what it takes then then let's go that route take it from the you know i completely selfishly don't want poor homeless hungry people without healthcare in my community because i think that the community is healthier and i'm safer if everybody has a place to live and everyone's taking care of has a doctor that they can go see when they get that weird cough that they didn't have but you know like all of this yes thank you dano smith it is too much sense why is it why but why is it hard for people to have the common sense for these things and and part of it is conditioning and in that nudging that you're talking about because there's all these weird things that have been you know even when it comes to healthcare it's like it's your right to see your doctor even if your insurance doesn't cover anything when you get there it's your doctor it's your right like all of this nonsense that gets thrown to people that they grab on to and be like yeah i want to have my doctor even though my insurance won't pay for any procedures done by my doctor i still want my doctor it's ridiculous what people get sold on and i just i just wish just wish that people all could experience a a day or a week of a society that is doing things differently like america has this weird idea that we're the only ones who've tried anything ever and we've ruled these out here and we've just ruled them out because they couldn't possibly work even though it's massively successful somewhere else and they don't have some of the endemic problems that we have in our society because they addressed them because we can we could be planning for the future like scandinavian countries we could be using our experience with pandemics with epidemics like asian countries we could be you know there are we could be taking experience from all these places well we don't want to change anything because that's like what we're currently doing is what is fundamentally america except that we're only like 200 years old so how can anything we're doing be fundamentally unchangeable when we are such a young country yeah exactly and a country that has changed drastically and dramatically many many many times over yeah we can't change anything because then we won't be america anymore no incorrect home of the free and the brave people who want to try new things yeah let's do it anyway this is like you know we also have to then address things like the criminal justice system yep is it possible that america is such a great system great country we're doing everything right and yet we have to incarcerate a greater percentage of our people than anybody else in the world does that really does that make sense that we're doing it right that we're incarcerating more people in order now with decriminalization of drugs hopefully we will be incarcerating fewer people not that we have a big population in or again to begin with but it's a step it's a step yeah sentences are too long uh support uh there is no rehabilitation associated with the prison system in the united states it is a big business you're absolutely right girl in the chat room yeah well and because yeah it's free labor it's slave labor no it's actually it's slave labor and it's in the constitution as no one can be forced to work without money except yeah prisoners which is that was on the california ballot what happened to that no no the california ballot was like it was gonna make more things that's passing isn't it the allowing uh ex felons to be able to vote again oh excellent to vote yes that's passing that's a good one that's passing yeah um there's another one they they shot down the eliminating cash bails which is oh yeah that whole thing the cash bail system is a business that needs to go away however uh the NAACP came out against that because they're like whoa whoa you're gonna use one of those computer systems it says based on the neighborhood you come from we've seen that in action before and it sucked yeah so this is one of the ones where something could have been very simple but instead was like made extra convoluted and confusing and the more I read the more I got confused about what to do with that ballot and then you go nope no too complicated it just the more I read the more confused I got which is not how it should be yeah there's there's basic things that we can do as a society that invest in people those things like free education making education the thing that we do in the national interests alongside the military uh maybe with some of the military's budget even as one of those things that we could do that would build a better brighter stronger future in this country the resistance against that never has made a decent argument in my opinion I've never heard an argument against educating our population that made oh yeah that's why we shouldn't do that it's never made sense hey I have a little bit of good news I mean this is a biased poll result on Twitter 358 votes so far for my poll question if COVID-19 is spiking in your area how do you feel about lockdowns to control the spread 75.4% say I'm for it only 6.1% say I'm against it mm-hmm so hey I like that I like this result good job everybody but I'm not gonna bias these results anymore so if you have not yet voted I tweeted out a poll earlier and you can vote for how you feel about lockdowns again I'm a very selfish person honestly I'm not nearly as empathetic as some people give me credit for I would like a lockdown just to keep everybody else at home I feel like that makes my community safer everybody stay home it does everybody else stay home I don't know I'm basically acting as though I've been acting as though I've been in lockdown for since since March since March 8th I think so I really haven't done much at all I'm not going anywhere I think I've been to the grocery store I had full of times so everyone Caroline doesn't Twitter I'm sorry I Twitter I tweet I Twitter tweet um for for everybody who's out there be patient we still have to have patience for votes to be counted for science to be done for processes to take place sometimes you just have to wait and patience is something we should practice and we should get good at it's good to be patient patience is a virtue is it not come on let us have virtue as the person who likes binge watching television shows all in one go I can't turn it off I have to watch what happens now right now oh wait this is the thing I have to tune in a week from now to find the next episode now wait till it's all on the on the on the uh is it that time it is that time I need to go to sleep I need to get rest everybody take care of yourselves yeah right do you need to sleep I don't remember what that's like say good night Blair good night Blair say good night Justin good night Justin good night good night everyone thank you for watching thank you for joining for this live broadcast of the twist podcast we will see you again next week have a great week patience and sleep it's good