 edition. I'm Benita Levine, coming to you live from Tel Aviv. Rocket sirens sounding in Gaza border communities in the past hour, including in Kisufim near Yitzhak and Sufa, day 33 of the war. And there are still rockets being launched from the Gaza Strip towards Israeli civilian towns and cities. The Israeli Defense Force confirming just a short while ago it's destroyed 130 terror tunnels since the beginning of its ground operation to eradicate Hamas. The IDF has just released footage from the engineering unit that is targeting the terror group's extensive underground network, much of its is under civilian sites. Now it's also struck a Hamas anti-tank missile launch position in the Strip, killing the operatives who try to flee in a second strike, fighting intensifying on this day more than one month after the terror rampage in southern Israel which saw more than 1,400 people shot, tortured and butchered by Hamas. In the north, the IDF targeting several Hezbollah positions on this day. Two Israeli soldiers have been evacuated from the Dovev area in moderate condition after being hit by anti-tank fire emanating from Lebanon. The IDF extending the opening of a corridor for garrisons in the north of the enclave to move south by an extra hour saying the move is due to the high number of civilians responding to Israel's call to use that corridor to flee from the north. Meanwhile, a Hamas member in Qatar has told the New York Times that leaders hope the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all borders and that the Arab world will stand with them. Khalil Al-Khaya and Tahrir Al-Nunur were quoted in the report dismissing the idea that Hamas wants to govern Gaza instead expressing support for endless conflict. They say the Hamas goal is not to run Gaza and to improve the situation in the enclave, the battle is to completely overthrow the situation. Now for the latest on the ground, we go live to our correspondent, Zek Anders. He joins us from southern Israel. So, Zek, let's start with the rocket siren sounding in the past hour in some border communities. Day 33 of the war. What update can you share right now? And in the last half hour, one of those red alerts coming in the border community of Kisafim is not confirmed whether or not there were any strikes we did hear. There were interceptions. You might be able to hear over my shoulder the outgoing artillery that is still targeting the northern Gaza Strip. And throughout the day, we've been seeing reports that thousands, thousands of Gaza civilians were able to flee south using a humanitarian corridor. One of the questions that we have in at this hour that we're hoping the IDF will get back to us with is how that structure worked if there was some sort of checkpoint or physical check as these folks were fleeing south. Right now, it did from the video and from what they have released, it does appear in the encirclement of Gaza City that they are for the most part remaining in large equipment and their APCs, the armored personnel vehicles, and the tanks. They are not physically ground operatives patrolling this humanitarian corridor, rather, where we see thousands fleeing. They said that there were so many people that were attempting to use this corridor that they extended it for another hour until three p.m. So the last report we have there is that that humanitarian corridor has now closed and once again, Gaza City is completely encircled with no one coming in or out. Zach, talk to us about exactly where you are right now. What exactly are we seeing behind you? What is happening behind you right now? Well, this is one of the, I can step out so you can take a look at it here. This is one of the more frustrating sites of the last month. These are the vehicles, the destroyed vehicles, many of them burnt from the October 7th attack. Now, this is an area that's considered a really a staging area for evidence. This is all going to be used in future criminal cases. These are people's cars, their livelihood. And then right now they've all been put together in one place. It's a very, very difficult site. Very difficult indeed, difficult to look at. Thank you so much. We will be coming back to you for regular updates. Appreciate it for now on correspondent Zach Anders in Southern Israel with the latest there. Thank you very much for that update. Now, many questions remain about the day after Hamas is eliminated. U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken making it clear just a short while ago that Gaza cannot continue to be run by Hamas and that Israel cannot occupy Gaza. Let's take a listen to more in his own words. When it comes to post conflict governance in Gaza, a few things are clear and necessary. One, Gaza cannot be continued to be run by Hamas. That simply invites a repetition of October 7th and Gaza uses a place from which to launch terrorist attacks. It's also clear that Israel cannot occupy Gaza. What I've heard from Israeli leaders is that they have no intent to reoccupy Gaza and retake control of Gaza. So the only question is, is there some transition period that might be necessary and what might be the mechanisms that you could put in place for that to make sure that there is security. And now for more insight. It's a pleasure to welcome to studio Dan Gilliman, former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations. Ambassador, thank you so much for being here in studio. Thank you for having me. One month and one day since this terror rampage and still so much to process more and more images coming out from what happened on the 7th of October. But I'd like your take to start on what we just heard from Anthony Blinken. What does the day after likely look like? Your thoughts? Well, I think Secretary Blinken made it very clear what the day after will not look like. Right. Israel has no intention of governing Gaza. We're not going to stay there one day more than necessary. And at the same time, it's very, very clear that Hamas can no longer govern Gaza for two reasons. One, it won't be there because we will demolish it and destroy it and make sure that there isn't a single Hamas person alive who could do that. And secondly, because Hamas has proven to be truly the world's worst and most vicious terror organization. I know this is a very difficult thing to say, but they sometimes make ISIS look like Mother Teresa. The things they did are so horrible. As you know, we've shown scenes. And then actually, there is a 47-minute movie that depicts the horrors and the atrocities of Hamas, which we will not show the Israeli public because we know that the diplomats and the foreign correspondents who've seen it, some of them just couldn't stay, others were sick. It is probably the most sickening site of inhuman behavior that the world has seen, not since the 73 war and not even since 9-11, but probably since the Holocaust. So there will have to be another arrangement. One is for the Arab countries who care so much about their Palestinian brethren getting together and having some kind of inter-Arab government governing Gaza. Another one is maybe some kind of international governing of Gaza. At the end of the day, the people of Gaza deserve better because, and I really, it's very important to make distinction between Hamas and the people of Gaza. Hamas, as I said, is really the most horrific and atrocious and cruel and terror organization. These people are inhuman. The people of Gaza, they are victims and they're hostages. And I hope that when there's no longer in Hamas, there will be an international organization or international get together. Arab countries, Middle Eastern countries, European countries, the Americans who will find a way to have some kind of international governing of that workplace. Well, let's unpack that a bit more. What would a transition period look like and who realistically would be involved after the war? I think the transition period will still involve Israel because we will have responsibility for having a transition and making it peaceful and making it successful. But I think that at the end of the day, it would have to be some kind of consortium of Arab countries. I mean, let's face it, Gaza has a border with Egypt, but the Egyptians don't want the Palestinians. One of the cruel truths of this conflict is that, and I visited many Arab countries, and when it comes to it, you realize that they really don't care about the Palestinians, which is a pity and is a tragedy, really, because these people are homeless and these people see no future. So I think there should be, if there is, and hopefully there will be a new Middle East, which we've been yearning for four years, and it would involve countries like Saudi Arabia and the Emirates and Qatar and also Jordan and Egypt, with whom we already have peace, and there would form some kind of consortium, which would finally govern Gaza and bring hope to these poor people. Ambassador, you know the United Nations very well. I'd like, first of all, your take on Antonio Guterres and his initial response to what happened. And the follow-up question to that, you saw my colleague Zach on the scene there, burnt out cars behind him. We know about the evidence, and part of the reason we know about the evidence about what happened on the 7th of October, because Hamas is so sick and twisted, they filmed it. They actually wanted the world to see it. And yet somehow in the international arena, including at the United Nations, Israel still seems to need to provide evidence for what really happened when it was filmed by the terrorists themselves. Why is this? It's a very frustrating situation. First of all, regarding the United Nations, I was there for six years, including the Second Lebanon War. I was actually part of the negotiating team that brought about the Resolution 1701, which brought an end to the war and returned our hostages. I served with two Secretary-General's, with Kofi Annan and Ban Ki-moon. None of them was a brother or a close friend of Israel, but they were fair people and they were great personalities. I think Antonio Guterres is probably the weakest and lowest Secretary-General we've had. I think that what he said was atrocious. He tried to take it back, but fortunately or unfortunately today, we have in that case evidence of him saying this did not happen in a vacuum. So it's to justify those horrible acts. And nothing he can now say can take those words back. And I think he should go. I don't think a person who has those opinions and voices them should be Secretary-General of the United Nations. It's shame. Many people agree with you. As far as evidence, I don't remember that after 9-11, people in the world asked the Americans to bring them stones or staircases or elevators from the Twin Towers to prove what has happened. I, you know, it's just, it amazes me time and time again how hypocritical and double standard the world really is. Because, you know, I mentioned 9-11. I mean, the United States reacted to 9-11. Many countries, including Britain, that even sent their royals to fight in Afghanistan, went to war against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. I don't remember anybody shedding tears for the Taliban or for Al-Qaeda. When Ukraine reacted to the vicious attack by the Russians, I don't remember anybody in the civilized world, in the Western world shedding tears for the poor Russians. And here we have people who are doubting what happened in Israel and asking for evidence when, as you said, the perpetrators themselves, those inhuman savages, had GoPro cameras in order to show what they're doing. And what they did was inhuman, was decapitating babies, raping women, slashing the stomach of a pregnant woman, taking the baby out and killing it and the mother, killing and torturing elderly people, kidnapping a nine-month-old baby to Gaza. And what more does the world want? I mean, you know, one thing that bothers me a lot is that the world doesn't realize that what we're doing in Gaza today is not revenge. It's a fight for our existence, because there's no way we can continue to live next to a vicious neighbor like that. This cannot happen again. And we're doing it also for the rest of the world, because, you know, this, in a way, is just a preview. Soon to be seen in a theater near you, I say to the Americans, I say to the British, and I say to the others. If we don't stop them there, they'll come to you and you'll witness it in your own streets. So I appreciate very much the great support that we're getting from the Americans, from the British and other European countries. But I'm very worried about the sentiment of the people in some of those countries who just don't understand what this is all about. It's a level of evil that is difficult to comprehend what happened. And again, we will keep watching to see how the international world responds right now, though, as you said, Israel needs to make sure this never, ever happens again. Dan Gilliman, former Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations, thank you very much for being here and sharing your insights. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Meanwhile, as we've been discussing, 240 hostages are still being held by the terror group in Gaza. The Axios news site is reporting that President Joe Biden is urging Benjamin Netanyahu to agree to a three-day pause in the fighting to allow some of the hostages to be freed. The proposal reportedly being discussed between the US, Israel and Qatar would see Hamas release 10 to 15 hostages and use the pause to verify the identities of all the hostages being held there. So for the latest, we now go live to our senior correspondent Owen Ultiman. He joins us from Tel Aviv where families of those 240 hostages are still waiting for answers. Owen, what can you tell us? Right, well, Benita, you can see all around me the tent and the displays that the families have set up here in the square by the Tel Aviv Art Museum and the city's main library. You can see, by the way, behind me that long table. It is a Shabbat table, Benita, with the empty chairs, of course, what's become a familiar symbol and a familiar emblem of the effort to free the hostages and the effort to raise awareness to free the hostages. We've seen tables like this set up, Benita up and down Israel and of course around the world. But of course, here in the main hostage families tent area, here in Central Tel Aviv, it stands to reason that there will be that table as well. There's a stage set up here as well and a tent where activists and potentially family members are as well. As for the Axios report, we've seen, of course, over the course of the past month the families grasping at any chance for a deal to free their loved ones. We've even heard cries and chants at press conferences for all in exchange for all, right? The purported offer from Hamas to free all of the hostages in exchange for emptying Israel's prisons of Palestinian terrorists who have been convicted and who are there, including, of course, those who were captured as part of the October 7th massacre. Safe to say, Benita, that that won't get much traction in public opinion. Although of course, one can understand how strongly the families feel and how they feel. They must advocate for their loved ones down in those tunnels in Gaza. Talks continue to go on. Seem not to be bearing much fruit. As for the Axios report, again, asking for a three-day humanitarian pause, although in a sense a three-day pause of that duration starts to look more like a temporary ceasefire. I suspect it's hard to see the Israeli leadership being willing to take that up at this stage of the fighting, given just how much progress the military has made in Gaza City. Prime Minister Netanyahu in an interview with ABC News has come out and said that a humanitarian pause of an hour here and hour there, potentially with the release of individual hostages, our hostages, as he put it, is something that he seems willing to consider. Of course, Benita talks continue to proceed on that between the Biden administration, the Israeli government, and other actors in the region, of course, including the Qataris as well. Thank you so much. We will be coming back to our senior correspondent, Owen Ultiman in Tel Aviv for regular updates. Thank you very much, Owen. And still with our focus on the 240 hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza, abducted by terrorists just over one month ago. It's obviously an agonizing wait for their families, difficult to imagine, still waiting for word on their loved ones. Now, four members of the Engel family, father Ronin, mother Karina and their daughters, 18-year-old Mika and 10-year-old Yuval have been missing since 8 a.m. on the morning of the 7th of October when terrorists targeted their keyboards. They're all deal filmed by terrorists who saw it fit to post it a video on social media. So now for more, we welcome Danny Engel, Ronin's brother. Danny, thank you so much. We so appreciate you speaking to us. We can't imagine the pain you and your family are going through, the uncertainty. If you will, take us back to the 7th of October. I understand the last message from the family said they were hiding in their shelter. Tell us more. Hi, okay. Here's that Saturday, the first morning where they start bombing Israel. So usually on the WhatsApp of the family we are calling, asking, everything is okay. So my brother answered me that this is in the safe room. And after that, we started showing, seeing on television that they are coming into the terror is the murderers of Hamas are getting into Israel. So I called him again, but he didn't answer. So I called his wife and she wrote to me that Ronin, my brother, is with a weapon. And they are all four of them in the safe room. That's the last that I heard from them. After that, I know, we know that somebody talked with Karina and Karina said that Ronin was out with his weapon. And they started both hearing that they are coming into their home and then the line went down and that's the last that we heard from them. And it was, it's over a month and it's unbelievable. And I can't explain what, who will take an 11 year old's child to Gaza? Who would think to take a prisoner at a hostage children? It's unbelievable. I don't, it's very hard every day. It's getting harder that we are that because we know who we're dealing with, those murderers of the Hamas, right? And all the world has to know it because now it's Israel and then they won't stop. And I just want my family back. I can't even imagine what you and your family are going through. You ask, who does this? Well, we're all trying to process who does this. It's a level of evil and inhumanity that is very difficult to comprehend. I understand exacerbating the situation even further. There was a video posted on your brother's Facebook page with a smiling terrorist. Did that happen? Tell us more. Yes. Unbelievable. It's something like 10 o'clock on this, on that Saturday, I went into my Facebook and suddenly I saw a story from my brother's Facebook that is showing the Hamas murderers getting into Israel through the fence. And after this, the Hamas murderer makes a stealthy or something like that that he told, he's speaking in Arabic and saying I took his phone. And that's the last thing that really we know. It's difficult to make sense of that. The cruelty is difficult to understand. Tell us a little bit more about Ronan, his character, the kind of person he is. Tell us more. My brother is something, he's always a very optimistic person. He usually, everything is started with a joke and ends with a joke. He, you know, he had many tattoos. One of them is saying always look on the bright side of life, if you know from, and this is what, this was Ronan. He was a photographer. He was a journalist. He made a lot of things. 12 years ago, we wanted a better life for him, for his and his family. And he went from the big city to the kibbutz. And they were very happy there. It was a very, it was a very, like, something like a little small village. Everything is green. Everything is peaceful. And now when I, when I went to my brother and we are sitting on his porch and we are, you have to understand that 10 meters, 10 meters from my brother's house is the fence. And after that is fields and after that is Gaza. And I usually told my brother, you know, you can be, they can target you like a duck, you know, but I never thought that they could came into the home and took little children in the pajamas and take them to Gaza. It's, nobody can imagine something like this even. And while we're talking to you, we're looking at pictures of Karin as well. I understand a cancer survivor and also the beautiful girls so full of life. What a beautiful family. Yes, Karina, Karina had cancer. And for two years, she fought that disease and get over it. And she was much better and doing well. And the girls are, you value is 11 years old. It's a happy girl, you know, always smiling, always cheerful, always communicating with us on WhatsApp. Mika was 18 years old and she started something like in Israel. It's something that when you get to the age of 18, you can contribute to the community. And she for one year started to work with children with difficulties. And you have to understand this is the peaceful people that they only want to live in peace. But on that Saturday, you have to understand not only Hamas murderers get into the kibbutz, civilians from Gaza that get into the kibbutz because the fence was open. Right. And they took the stolen things, they made damages, they ruined things. Regular people, you say somebody that is in the Hamas, no. So I don't believe anymore that there's something to do with them or to talk to with them or so humanitarian for them because they show no humanitarian for us. So it has to stop. And I want to believe that the IDF now is in Gaza and it doesn't take, it has to clean all Gaza from the Hamas and no mercy of anybody because they don't show any mercy on us. So to that exact point, you're talking about the IDF being in Gaza right now. We have been reporting about the terror tunnels that troops are navigating as we speak. We also know Benjamin Netanyahu has said no ceasefire until the hostages are returned. But there are also reports, and these are just reports of a potential humanitarian pause for a few days that could allow the release of around 10 to 15 hostages, reports that Qatar is involved in these discussions. What are your thoughts and your feelings about that? Some kind of arrangement for some of the hostages to be released right now? Your thoughts? But with all the pain, I don't, I want all the hostages back together. Not one, not two, not 15, no any agreement of a few hours of humanitarian nothing. If they don't bring back all the hostages, nothing, we don't stop. This is my opinion. And if you had to give a message right now to Benjamin Netanyahu very briefly, we only have a few seconds left. What message would you be giving to the Israeli leadership to work to make sure that all the hostages, as you've said, are free? Very briefly, please. I don't have much to say. I just want my family back. Nothing else because there's nothing really that I can do just to ask and just to ask for all the world to see what we are dealing with and put a lot of pressure. Every little thing that everybody does matters. Danny Engel, our hearts are with you and our hearts are with your whole family. And we are all hoping for good news. Thank you so much for speaking to us here on I24 News. Thank you. Thank you. And with that, we wrap up this edition of Outbreaking News Coverage. I'm Bernice Levine. Until I live, stay tuned. I'm Nicole Michel and this is a special edition of News 24 in Spanish dedicated to the Iron Spades War. A new week has passed against the Hamas terrorist organization in the Gaza Strip. Israel has been under attack since October 7, not only for the missiles and the Hamas firemen and the Islamic Jihad in Gaza, the Hezbollah in Lebanon and also Yemen, which has been added to the continent, but for the attack and anti-Semite demonstrations that fill the main capitals of the world, singing that Palestine will be free, confusing the Palestinian people with a terrorist organization. London, Spain, in Latin America, in the United States and many other countries. The support for Palestine is now being translated into an exterminating desire. When the pro-Palestinian masses shout out, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. From the Jordan River, the Mediterranean Sea, Palestine will be free. Free from what? It's a good question. It will be from us, the Jews. What are they going to do with 10 million? Do they want us all dead? Tengo novedades para todos ustedes que cantan will be free, tanto Israel como las comunidades judías del mundo, haremos lo posible por impedirlo. Hoy, hoy Carlos, hay un Estado que defiende al pueblo judido, querer matarlos y querer destruir al Estado de Israel no es algo que quede impune. Los responsables de esta guerra están claramente marcados, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran y sus cómplices, tanto en lo militar, lo ideológico y lo educativo. Pero previo a ello, Lior Hayat, el vocero de la Cancedería israelí, realizó un Zoom para actualizar acerca de la situación de los secuestrados. Muchos de ellos de países latinoamericanos se hizo referencia al fenómeno del antisemitismo actual. Lucha en su guerra de autodefensa da el apoyo a los terroristas de Hamas y es justamente los que están buscando. Lamentablemente vemos muchos eventos de antisemitismo también en los Estados Unidos pero en otra parte del mundo. Eso es un problema que nosotros, el mundo judío entero y el mundo occidental, o la comunidad internacional en su totalidad, tiene que enfrentar. El hecho de que un ataque contra judíos, el peor ataque desde los caustos, que terminó con 1400 víctimas que fueron asesinados en Israel, genera ataques contra Israel en el mundo, es una cosa que ni siquiera puedo entender, demuestra el nivel de odio y el nivel de ignorancia y el nivel de apoyo a un grupo terrorista Hamas. Nicole Garín Sabar es el único programa que proporciera un sistema de apoyo de 360 grados a sus participantes antes de mudarse Israel durante y después su servicio militar, incluido alojamiento en pensión completa durante todo el servicio y lo hace con el apoyo de las fuerzas de defensa de Israel, el ministerio de absorción e integración, la agencia judía de Israel y Masa Israel Journey. El ataque del 7 de octubre en todos los poblados que bordean la franja de gas y que dejaron cerca de 1400 muertos, miles de heridos y un dolor que no cesa y que no se va de nuestro corazón, uno de esos quebutsin se llama near itzhak y allí se encontraba un grupo de soldados solitarios que vinieron por el programa Garín Sabar. Nicole, estuviste con ellos el día que fueron a buscar las pertenencias que habían quedado luego del 7 de octubre. ¿Por qué no nos cuentas un poco? Bueno, la verdad, Carlos, fue muy emotivo porque cuando te consigues soldados, solitarios, jóvenes que están aquí y más aún nosotros latinoamericanos que tenemos esa idiosincrasia tan amorosa, tan nuestra, verlos recoger sus cosas, su único hogar aquí en Israel, en ese kibbutz, como bien dijiste, en la franja de gas a tres kilómetros near itzhak, te dan un sentimiento muy grande cómo ellos se despiden de esa casa, de esa segunda casa, parte de sus países en latinoamérica donde pertenecen. Vamos a ver el siguiente reportaje. Nos encontramos en el kibbutz near itzhak, el kibbutz donde viven los soldados latinoamericanos, soldados israelíes que hoy se despiden de este lugar que está a tres kilómetros de la franja estos soldados tuvieron la suerte o destino de salvarse el 7 de octubre del ataque de jamas se disponen a buscar sus pertenencias en su hogar en israel el kibbutz near itzhak que hoy es zona de guerra jonathan se piurca es el director del área hispano hablante del programa garín sabar jóvenes de la generación hay el ejército israelí resguarda el sur del país entonces recoger sus pertenencias y otra vez salir de la zona de conforme caminante se hace camino al andar renata de paraguay nos dice si y como soldada israelí nacida en paraguay te quedas aquí en israel renata y tan de chile se despide de sus padres adoptivos israelíes te vas a chilo te quedas en israel pero el servicio militar israelí comienza a los 18 años es obligatorio las soldados que no pierden la sonrisa que son fans de shildish gambino en pleno kibbutz las maletas están listas y al final el abrazo de ilan con 53 años en el kibbutz un padre para los soldados y marzouk agregó que según la convención de ginebra es responsabilidad de la ocupación proveerle a los civiles de gaza todos los servicios mientras estén bajo ocupación desde 2005 la organización que si está presente es la urra agencia de las naciones unidas que se ocupa de los refugiados palestinos urra tiene su cargo entre otras cosas la educación de los niños adolescentes palestinos y en sus objetivos figura educar por los derechos humanos y la resolución no violenta de conflictos veamos como lo hacen hamas and islamic jihad summer camps 2021 the way children from umbra schools spent their summer vacations uno de los puntos centrales es el derecho palestino a la ley de retorno la organización se ocupa de indoctrinar desde su fundación en 1950 que israel no tiene derecho a existir y que los palestinos refugiados podrán regresar a yafu high-fash dode y ashkelon durante años urra una organización de las naciones unidas ha enviado sus alumnos a los campamentos de verano de jamás y allí recibido entrenamiento militar y un profundo deseo de ser mártires por palestina tipiquet of appreciation complete with this photo attesting to the completion of formal weapons training and a readiness to fight the jewels dolares que recibe la urra de la ono y de donaciones de ong que apoyan la causa palestina el equipo profesionales de la urra sus directores sus maestros sus asistentes sociales todos que deberían de ocuparse de brindarle una calidad de vida mucho mejor a los refugiados los han abandonado exactamente el equipo de evaluación interno de las naciones unidas ha emitido un informe categórico de que sin posible supervisar el uso de los fondos de la urra que todos los materniers educativos están fuera del plan de acción integrado para refugiados que tiene las naciones unidas y que urra debe ser supervisado ya que no queda clara cuál es la contribución a la mejoría de la vida de los refugiados en el congreso de los estados unidos el congressman brad german democrat de los demócratas ha pasado una ley llamada peace and tolerance in palestinian education act paci tolerancia en la educación palestina que indica revisar todos los aspectos relativos a la participación financiera de los estados unidos en la urra urra se ha convertido en el brazo ideológico de jamás y es una realización cómplice de los terroristas clearly the hamas and islamic jihad summer camps have become training grounds for the vilification of israel urra teachers and textbooks complement this with an ideology and curriculum that promotes armed struggle for the right of return last may the most recent outbreak of anti-israel violence in gaza exposed a tunnel dug by hamas under a school in urra's zaytun refugee camp here is the evidence hamas thus takes the urra children captive not only during the summer but during the school year itself urra students constitute a future terror army aimed at liquidating israel based on the illusion of a right of return urra can no longer act as if it does not know urra is proud of its 400 schools in gaza judaea and samaria and jerusalem it allocates 58% of its budget for an education system that indoctrinates a new generation for war in essence it has abandoned its students the time has come for urra to teach peace and coexistence during both the school year and summer vacation the time has come for the world to demand oversight of urra schools the time has come for donor nations to put an end to urra energy no permita en el futuro poder vivir en paz con el pueblo palestino nicole uno de los países donde más se ha sentido la identificación confusa entre el pueblo palestino y los terrestres de jamás así de españa y para aclararnos la situación allí se encuentra con nosotros la periodista de tele madrid maría jamardo muchas gracias maría por estar hoy con nosotras gracias maría bienvenida muchísimas gracias por invitarme maría el placer es nuestro hemos visto participar en debates en los medios españoles estos mismos dan informaciones fidedigna son creíbles o son tendenciosos que mezclan la realidad del pueblo palestino con la organización terrorista jamás esa es nuestra duda y hoy me gustaría que nos los aclararás pues me gustaría contestar de manera contundente que no hay confusión en los medios españoles entre los terroristas y el pueblo palestino pero la verdad es que para justificar los derechos humanos de unos que justificamos todos y que defendemos todos como no puede ser de otra manera están tratando de blanquear todas las acciones que desde el pasado 7 de octubre hemos podido ver con nuestros propios ojos y es muy complicado combatir un relato que está tan instaurado en la prensa en la sociedad que es el que cala con tanta facilidad en todos aquellos que desconocen como desde hace 18 años palestina es libre de vivir en Gaza en su territorio como le apetezca y como buena parte del pueblo palestino en 2006 eligió hacerlo bajo la propuesta política de un grupo terrorista como jamás y de ahí que desde entonces israel no haya podido descansar en un solo minuto con esas amenazas constantes con esos misiles constantes pero claro es complicado explicarlo cuando no has estado sobre el terreno y es complicado hacerte oír cuando la mayoría optan por lo políticamente correcto que hoy es defender la causa palestina como si la causa palestina fuese algo que se pudiese separar del hecho religioso radical o de las aspiraciones de un grupo terrorista como jamás por imponer en la zona en el área de oriente medio que afecta también al territorio israel y su voluntad has hablado del tema político y quisiera mencionar dentro del gobierno española y voces encontradas por un lado del presidente peter sánchez que busca tener una digamos posición componedora para las partes en conflicto y por otro lado tienes a yolanda días vice presidenta segunda su gobierno que se diferencia diciendo que israel comete crímenes de guerra como pueden convivir estas dos visiones dentro de el mismo gobierno español pues es algo incomprehensible inadmisible porque efectivamente cuando un gobierno se pronuncia como institución tiene que hacerlo en bloque y no caben opiniones internas la opinión se pacta en el consejo de ministros y a partir de aizas la oposición oficial del país es mucho cante para los españoles también entiendo que sea desde el extranjero algo inexplicable pero quiero recordar que la señora yolanda días y los antiguos miembros de podemos por ejemplo fueron los únicos miembros de un gobierno en europa que se manifestaron en contra de la OTAN cuando trató de acordar la entrega de armas a ucrania tras ser invadida por rusia tenemos que entender que en su visión prorusa del mundo aunque intenten enblanquear la está mucho más próximos de los postulados de jamás y de sus intenciones que de lo que pueden estar de un estado de derecho como esrael que molesta mucho en oriente medio precisamente porque no deja de recordar cuál es la civilización de occidente cuál es el sentido del estado de derecho cuál es el respeto a la ley y cuál es la libertad que yo creo que es realmente lo que está en peligro en este momento la libertad de israel de poder defenderse ante cualquier ataque y la libertad de los periodistas de la sociedad occidental de poder expresar su opinión y defender aquello que cree que es correcto sin miedo que les señalen claro ciertamente maría hay una realidad tiene que haber una convivencia entre el pueblo judío el pueblo israelí y el pueblo palestino pero tú como periodista y eso es algo muy importante buscas información creíble frente a un mar de fake news que hay actualmente cómo haces para poder realizar ese labor tan importante como comunicadora pues mira más que buscar la información real que también intentó darla la realidad es que trato de desmontar el relato de la propaganda de jamás y trato de hacerlo porque de verdad que es algo que llega con tanta facilidad y con el victimismo con el que exponen a su propio pueblo a los palestinos a los que están y se ha confirmado hace unas horas acribillando literalmente cuando tratan de huir del norte al sur para ponerse a salvo que yo creo que es que es imprescindible poner frente al espejo las barbaridades y las atrocidades que jamás es capaz de cometer contra su propio pueblo lo ha utilizado durante muchos años y le ha salido bien el negocio precisamente porque la bondad y el buenismo y en muchos casos la ignorancia de occidente han hecho que se envíen muchas cantidades de dinero grandes importantes sumas de euros desde la unión europea y de estados unidos de dólares para tratar de ayudar en esa estabilización de gaza y que pudieran salir adelante pero cuando uno echa la vista atrás y se da cuenta de que después de esa salida del último israelí de la franja de gaza lo primero que hicieron fue eliminar todas las infraestructuras y dedicarse a convertir gaza en un queso gruyere totalmente socavado bajo el suelo para intentar ocultar bajo infraestructuras como hospitales como escuelas como mezquitas sus centros de mando y occidente no es capaz de verlo de verdad que lo importante ahora mismo es poner en el foco jamás decir que jamás está utilizando sus propios civiles, repetirlo hasta la extenuación, poner en evidencia a gente que está utilizando a su propio pueblo insisto para salir indemne que no tiene pudor en refugiarse en ambulancias que tratan de evacuar heridos a través de la frontera de rafa precisamente para huir de ese asedio de ese cerco que cada vez las fdi aproximan a las zonas estratégicas y yo creo que lo único que hay que hacer en este momento es reventar y lo digo directamente porque esa es la palabra que merecen las estrategias de propaganda de jamás no se puede comparar nunca a una realización terrorista con un estado de derecho consolidado y reconocido y no se puede blanquear lo que hicieron el 7 de octubre nada de lo que ha venido después nada de lo que ha venido después puede afearse para tratar de justificar un derecho que además utiliza la conveniencia cuando se ven debilitados cuando ven que están entrando en una situación un poco más compleja por la falta de comunicaciones por los cortes eléctricos por la falta de combustible que por cierto no es tal y yo quiero poner el foco ya que me dais la oportunidad para aquellos que nos vean es imposible que llevamos un mes desde ese 7 de octubre viendo como los hospitales y como ese ministerio de salud de la autoridad palestina que depende de jamás y que por lo tanto desvía propaganda de jamás diciendo que se quedan sin suministros día tras día y así lleva un mes de algún sitio está saliendo ese combustible para que sigan como vimos ayer asistiendo por ejemplo a actos de propaganda con pantallas gigantes en esos enfrentamientos entre las fd jamás en los que no había ni una ventana del hospital de chifa sin luz y no había ni un solo móvil de quienes estaban allí concentrado sin batería eso es importantísimo enseñar esas imágenes repetirlas y desmontar esa barbaridad que se está construyendo en torno jamás para blanquear los es fundamental maría no nos queda más que agradecerte por analysis y por tu participación en nuestro programa y esperamos quizás más adelante volver a hablar con temas mucho menos complicados que este para hablar un poco de la nación de españa e israel muchas gracias gracias maría por estar con nosotros en night for news aquí en labir muchísimas gracias a vosotros un beso bueno y no nos vamos a despedir sin dejar de lado ni olvidarnos de los secuestrados por jamás que nosotros seguimos pidiendo por liberación de todos ellos la semana que viene claro que sí carlos gracias por estar con nosotros is officially in a state of war this is a very active scene and we need to get in the car as we're talking within a hundred soldiers and civilians have been kidnapped entire families including babies and children and elderly were butchered in their beds awaken the giant and we are ready and we are strong everyone is showing up this is the unity over 1300 people murdered and more than 3000 injured and the war with jamás continues we bring you first-hand testimonies from the front lines from those who survive and all the records of the atrocities by hamas follow us as israel fights terror from the south and north get the inside scoop on what's going on only on i-24 news drill story to the world i-24 news addition i'm bonita levine coming to you live from tel aviv rocket siren sounding in gaza border communities in recent hours including in kisufim near yitzhak and so far day 33 of the war and there are still rockets being launched from the gaza strip towards israeli civilian towns and cities the israeli defense force confirming a short while ago it's destroyed 130 terror tunnels since the beginning of its ground operation to eradicate hamas the idea has also just released footage from the engineering unit that is targeting the terror groups extensive underground network much of it under civilian sites it's also struck a hamas anti-tank missile launch position in the strip killing the operatives who tried to flee fighting intensifying on this day more than one month after that terror rampage in southern israel which saw more than 1400 people shot tortured and butchered in the north on this day the idea of targeting several hezbollah positions to israeli soldiers have been evacuated from the dovev area in moderate condition after being hit by anti-tank fire emanating from lebanon the idea of extending the opening of a corridor for gardens in the north of the enclave to move south by an extra hour saying the move is due to the high number of civilians responding to israel's call to use the corridor to flee from the north meanwhile hamas members in qatar telling the new york times that leaders hope the state of war with israel will become permanent on all borders and that the arab world will stand with them khalil al khaya and tacher al nunu are quoted in that report dismissing the idea that hamas wants to govern gaza instead expressing support for endless conflict they say the hamas call is not to run gaza and to improve the situation in the enclave the battle is to completely overthrow the situation meanwhile many questions remain about the day after hamas is eliminated us secretary estate anthony blinkin making it clear just a short while ago that gaza cannot continue to be run by hamas and that israel cannot occupy gaza let's take a listen to more in his own words when it comes to post-conflict governance in gaza a few things are clear and necessary one gaza cannot be continued to be run by hamas that simply invites a repetition of october 7th and gaza uses a place from which to launch terrorist attacks it's also clear that israel cannot occupy gaza what i've heard from israeli leaders is that they have no intent to reoccupy gaza and retake control of gaza so the only question is are that is there some transition period that might be necessary and what might be the mechanisms that you could put in place for that to make sure that there is security so for more insight we welcome to studio international affairs analyst former europe and middle east editor at the associated press and former chairman of the foreign press association dan perry dan thank you so much as always for being here so we just heard anthony blinkin and his views on the day after your insights into a what you heard and be what you think is likely to unfold well uh it's interesting that blinkin still states unequivocally that hamas cannot rule gaza because that stands in contradiction to the idea that israel's time is limited because the worst-case scenario from israel's perspective is that the united states uh closes the window of opportunity the spondent over how things are going and over civilian casualties and hamas remains in power in gaza but look gaza has been a thorn in the side of the world for quite some time no one seems to want it we hear now from hamas leaders in qatar that even they perhaps don't want it israel doesn't want it egypt doesn't want it um the pa i'm not sure wants it israel doesn't trust the pa to run it it's and perhaps rightly so and uh the the the list of outside players waiting to come in and help a transition period with foreign peacekeeping troops perhaps is very very small maybe zero so this is a real problem if you ask me what is likely i suspect uh an israeli interim occupation with an effort to rejuvenate the palestinian authority and under some perhaps even new leadership try again some sort of gaza first scenario enroute maybe to a two-state solution something we're going to unpack in a short while but right now i want to go to southern israel and we're joined by our correspondent zack and so zack rocket siren sounding in recent hours in some border communities there day 33 of the war where exactly are you what update can you share right now well we're south of sterot and the current situation here is continued from what we've heard the last several days which is outgoing artillery targeting the northern gaza strip as that ground operation and offensive continues into these late afternoon evening hours now we have received an update from the idf today regarding the death of another israeli soldier bringing the current count the confirmed number of israeli soldiers dead to 31 palestinian media today has been reporting that there are close there are operations closer to the hospital hospital which has been regarded by the idf as one of the command centers location underneath the hospital in the tunnels that is a major development in the last few hours regarding the fact that one forces are within gaza city as well as in circling the city and within the last few hours we also have the closure of a humanitarian corridor that was open to allow residents to flee from to the south from gaza city itself so the latest is that gaza city once again encircled and that unconfirmed reports of god of israeli troops entering into the city and engaging inside gaza we will be coming back to our correspondent zack and is in southern israel for regular updates for now thank you zack and now for more insight we welcome political and military analyst major in the reserves eliot chadoff and he joins us from northern israel major thank you so much for your time you've served in the idf for nearly 35 years right now as we just heard from my colleague the idf intensifying its moves to destroy those ramas terror tunnels inside gaza talk us through your assessment of the ground operation so far the ground operation is going very methodically following a timetable that was part of planning for quite some time in other words the the military is enacting it now but any military that isn't planning operations in advance isn't isn't working properly so the id the idea of going in going in slowly going in methodically we were very well aware of the of the tunnel complex a network under gaza very very well executed as as far as i can see and i should mention i'm i'm home today but i'm i'm in the reserves in the south i'll be going back tomorrow morning combined arms being used very well on the ground infantry armor the engineers of course critical in locating and destroying the tunnel network and doing a very a fine job of it and of course in combination with the air force the navy the artillery as your correspondent mentioned which is constantly firing from the western negif so i would say that at least from where we're sitting now and and with war you can't predict what's going to be tomorrow the the operation is going very much with within the parameters of as planned talk to us a little bit more about these civilian sites on top of these terror tunnels obviously complicating the situation the command centers underneath a hospital give us a sense of the technology used in these cases if you can and the extent of the efforts to make sure that it's Hamas terrorists that are targeted and not civilians well first of all targeting is is only of terrorists in the sense that whether it's artillery air or ground uh ground forces the firing is not indiscriminate it's against specific targets if there are civilians in the area they're endangered by it and that's according to international law the Geneva convention uh nowhere in any international legal or ethical military scenario does it say that the presence of civilians protects military targets rather than contrary the presence of military targets endanger civilians right of course Hamas being fully cognizant of the fact that the world in general world media loves to condemn israel for any damage that's done to any any civilians any any injury any death intentionally built its system within and intermingled with the civilian population and in particular in the most sensitive spots in schools and playgrounds and in hospitals knowing full well that once again by international law that makes those places legitimate targets but of course that's not how it's going to play out if we strike them so we're being as careful as possible given the fully extended network of Hamas positions in the civilian areas that's also part of the humanitarian corridor and and the the call for civilians to evacuate to the southern part of the strip which is also very much part of the fourth Geneva convention calls on on forces it went operating in a civilian area to allow for a corridor for civilians to evacuate if they want to and we didn't make this up we're we're taking it straight out of the book right and of course Hamas doesn't like that which is why they're shooting people who are trying to escape and and here you have the paradox of israeli tanks protecting palestinians from Hamas as they try to escape the battles a paradox indeed major anti-tank fire earlier from the north to israeli soldiers are moderately injured talk to us about your concerns around future moves by Hezbollah the risks that Hassan Asrallah is potentially weighing right now before he decides if he is going to get fully involved here your thoughts I don't think Hezbollah intends to get involved here I'll limit that with I don't think very very dynamic situation that can change because of internal pressure or any number of other factors I think that Iran was behind it all Hezbollah and even Hamas or especially Hamas perhaps were greatly surprised by the immediate aftermath of their massacre on the seventh in other words their intent was to attack a divided Israel that would probably in their opinion follow the model that we did in in 2006 which the second Lebanon war against Hezbollah which may I remind you began with the Gilad Shalit incident Israeli forces moving into Gaza then there was the incident along the Lebanese border and the decision was made not to call up reserves but rather shift those forces from Gaza to Lebanon I believe they they saw this as version 2.0 of the same war and much to their shock within no time hours in terms of the country coming together and within a day the the military getting attacked together hundreds of thousands of reservists called up many of them on the northern border as well and now Hassan Asrallah is caught in the horns of a dilemma he doesn't really want to go in and go through what Hamas is going through in Gaza on the other hand he can't completely stand by and let and do nothing because he's already in part a laughing stock and his solution to it is in brick strikes and I hate to say it that way because the people who are injured and killed by it is certainly a tragedy but from a military perspective a symbolic a missile here a few rockets there in and I would even say in his case in the hope that they don't do too much damage right and and to make sure that the Israeli response is measured because we don't want an escalation along the border right now either we don't need a two front war so appreciate your insights right now watching all friends at the same time political and military analyst major in the reserves Elliot Chadoff speaking to us from northern Israel thank you very much for your time my pleasure and talking of the north our correspondent Mary McAuliffe was there earlier and filed this report from northern Israel certainly seen an increase in the number of rockets that have been launched towards Israeli communities in the north for three days in a row double digit numbers of rockets intercepted here some of them also doing damage in some of those cities here notably Kiryat Shmona it's a city of some 20 000 people where all the residents have once again been ordered to evacuate they were ordered to evacuate two weeks ago but the local authorities are urging everybody there who still remains to please listen to the instructions to make sure that yesterday two days ago when we saw that attack there was a prime example of why people need to be listening to the directives the family that was almost very seriously injured in that attack had just returned from three weeks where they were in the south and then came back to their homes and we saw that massive rocket barrage again yesterday another massive rocket barrage no damages were caused by that but we know the IDF responded forcefully to the site of where they believe those launches came from also launching a number of different strikes on Hezbollah terror cells in the area and just conducting a number of different strikes last night we saw a massive air strike by the Israeli military on what is said to be a Hezbollah weapons depot just causing a huge plume of smoke as that munitions and tons of weapons were detonated in that area so IDF is certainly continuing to respond here we're about five kilometers from the border so it can be anywhere from between 20 to 45 seconds that we have to get to a shelter when sirens do ring out but the closer you get to the border of course of course the more time it takes so the less time you have to actually get to that shelter so this is why also the main fear here for many of the communities who are evacuated they were evacuated because they're within missile range so within the Hezbollah missile range and we continue to see Hezbollah throwing these anti-tank missiles across the border not just at Israeli military posts which have been the primary target over the past three weeks but also at civilian areas today we also knew sirens rang out in a northern Israeli community right along the border the IDF said that was a false alarm but what we have seen in the past few weeks is that numerous times these mortars and shelling across the border from inside Lebanon towards Israel has set off these rocket sirens so this is why all residents who are in this area are told to go to southern parts of the country more towards the center where there's might not still be might not be less rockets but at least they're further away from these missiles that are being fired. Correspondent Mary McCullough with that update from the north a little earlier from the north to Tel Aviv now senior correspondent Owen Altman joins us where families of the 240 hostages are still waiting for answers Owen can't imagine the pain the agony what can you tell us? Yeah Benita just a short time ago I interviewed one of the relatives and you're absolutely right it it's just incredibly painful to listen to the story to listen to the way they talk in this case about someone who had been taken hostage from the now infamous sadly tragic music festival the nova music festival in Kibbutz Reim and talking about him talking about his plight and interestingly Benita we talked earlier about this report in Axios about the offer for a three-day I don't know for three days if you call it a humanitarian pause or a ceasefire but a three-day stop in the fighting in order to release 10 to 15 hostages and get the identities verified of all of the rest that's the plan that's on the table so I asked this relative about it and Benita she came out strongly against it seeing it is absolutely insufficient that for a pause of that duration all of the hostages need to be released and she thought it she thought it was just really objectionable to ask the Israeli military to stop fighting and because Israel as she put it did not start this war and Israel as she put it needs to go on the offensive against Hamas and it will put that sound bite on air over the course of the evening Israel time over the course of the next few hours but it is interesting to hear that coming from a family member herself Benita someone of course is advocating for the hostages and for their release to see a deal like this a deal reportedly put forward by none other than the president of the United States as absolutely insufficient to the family members Benita let alone the rest of the Israeli public live from Tel Aviv senior correspondent Owen Ultiman we will be coming back to you of course for regular updates thank you Owen Dan Perry when the situation couldn't get more complicated and intense reports of this potential pause what do you make of exactly what we were discussing a little bit earlier the fact that Qatar the US and Israel reportedly discussing a pause that might involve 10 to 15 hostages being released how viable is that I think it will fly with the Israeli public I mean look you never are never going to win a Nobel Prize by refusing humanitarian gestures and there is a humanitarian problem in Gaza and Israel would be wise to take that into account in general but I think the feeling in Israel is strong that for a genuine pause in the idea of operation which could serve to take pressure off Hamas and maybe enable them someone to regroup then all the hostages have to be released I will say this there is definitely a problem for Israel strategically not just ethically and morally with a humanitarian situation in Gaza putting aside the issue of what is the right deal on any particular number of hostages everyone understands that Israel does not want civilians in Israel to be killed that's clear yeah I don't know of a serious person on planet earth that doesn't understand Hamas does want civilians in Gaza to be killed however the earth is not composed only of serious people and right now there is a strong narrative setting it in the west that Israel is being reckless now we hear representatives of the government in the army denying it but not doing very much to project a great degree of understanding that that there is an emergency on a civilian front in other words either if the Hamas numbers are wrong and inflated then they should make that case if they are truly as I believe they are making every effort to avoid civilian casualties make the case daily and profoundly and and and look Netanyahu it can convince anyone of anything sometimes it seems he has deployed his rhetorical powers for weaker cases than this one and for less important outcomes if Israel wants to be given by the Americans even despite their sympathy enough time to achieve the goals that I think most Israelis and most people in the world who really are knowledgeable know is necessary the eradication of Hamas they have to keep that window of opportunity open and the thing closing it is the civilian casualties narrative it is an emergency the IDF spokesman Daniel Hagar is giving regular briefings with evidence about the efforts to make sure that civilians are not harmed in this fighting and as we've discussed before this is a war no one wants to see civilians being hurt it is complicated as well something that we spoke about a little bit earlier is the families of the hostages and earlier I spoke to Danny Engel whose four family members were kidnapped by Hamas his brother Ronan Engel his brother's wife Karina and their two daughters Mika 18 years old and Yuval 11 years old let's take a listen to his thoughts on this issue he's always a very optimistic person he usually everything he started with a joke and ends with a joke he you know he had many tattoos one of them is saving saying always look on the bright side of life if you know from and this is what that's what Ronan he was he had he was a photographer he was a journalist he he made a lot of things he 12 years ago we wanted a better life for him for his and his family and he went from the big city to the kibbutz and they were very happy there it was a very it was a very like something like a little small village everything is green everything is peaceful and now when I when I went up to my brother and we're sitting on his porch and we are you understand that 10 meters 10 meters from my brother's house is the fence and after that is fields and after that is Gaza and I usually told my brother you know you can be they can target you like a duck you know but I never thought that they could came into the home and took little children in the pajamas and take them to Gaza it's nobody can imagine something like this even with all the pain I don't I bought all the hostages back together not one not two not 15 no any agreement of a few hours of humanitarian nothing if they don't bring back all all the hostages nothing we don't stop part of that heartbreaking interview with Danny Engel a little earlier here on i24 news and Dan as we heard there from Danny all hostages back that's what families are calling for despite the pain for answers about their loved ones it is truly inspiring to see family members who could be forgiven for wanting their own loved one back being this rational actually I I I can only salute them look I think a lot of the world and I hope this doesn't apply to the White House they should know better but there is a sense of a negotiation happening here a Middle East bizarre about these things and I think they miss something fundamental this is not another instance like we had in the previous rounds of war with Hamas this is a case where there is not that much to discuss the hostages must come back and Hamas must be obliterated in Gaza almost almost come what may I I've rarely seen Israel so united in in a goal it involves potentially tragic outcomes as well but I do believe that it's not going to change and I think outside players who want to play constructive role need to understand this the the most useful thing that can happen right now is for Qatar and other Arab countries to make clear that they continue to stay with Israel that's critical exacerbating an already sensitive and complicated situation which we were discussing earlier the difference between Hamas terrorists and civilians something that was mentioned in that interview with Danny Engel and he said that the people who came up and breached the security fence were not only Hamas terrorists and that they were civilians as well who came up and took part in the rampage now obviously Dan obviously we all need to wait for the full investigation to get to the bottom of exactly what unfolded and it's going to take a long time before it's clear exactly who was involved but how does that complicate exactly what we were discussing earlier that distinction right now Israel is trying to eliminate a terror organization at the same time it appears and there will be evidence if it is or isn't the case that civilians took part in that killing rampage as well it serves that a narrative serves many purposes one by the way is an Israeli right wing purpose of saying well they have a lot of support in Gaza Hamas and the people are the same whereas others will say but maintain a distinction on the other hand some will use it to mitigate Hamas's responsibility look it wasn't them the truly terrible things were done by civilians a terrorist is not an official vocation you don't carry a card from you know the terrorist international labor union the minute you cross that fence and started to burn babies in their beds you are a terrorist and that's the end of the story let's wait and see if the world agrees with what you have just said obviously an unfolding situation and again those investigations are going to take a while international affairs analyst former europe and middle east editor at the associated praise stan perry always a pleasure having you here in studio thank you very much and that is where we end this edition of our breaking news coverage i'm benita latin live until i vev thank you for watching stay tuned this is i24 news israel is at war make an investment in israel bonds it is the most powerful and direct way to stand with israel visit israel bonds dot com and invest now 1300 people murdered and more than 3000 injured and the war with hamas continues we bring you first hand testimonies from the front lines from those who survived and all the records of the atrocities by hamas follow us as israel fights terror from the south and north get the inside scoop on what's going on only on i24 news draw story to the world this edition i'm benita levine coming to you live from tel aviv rocket siren sounding in gaza border communities in recent hours including in kesufim near yitzrack and sufa day 33 of the war and there are still rockets being launched from the gaza strip towards israeli civilian towns and cities the israeli defense force confirming a short while ago it's destroyed 130 terror tunnels since the beginning of its ground operation to eradicate hamas the idf has also just released footage from the engineering unit that is targeting the terror groups extensive underground network much of it under civilian sites it's also struck anti-tank missile launch position in the strip killing the operatives who tried to flee fighting intensifying on this day more than one month after that terror rampage in southern israel which saw more than 1400 people shot tortured and butchered in the north on this day the idf targeting several hezbollah positions two israeli soldiers have been evacuated from the dovev area in moderate condition after being hit by anti-tank fire emanating from lebanon the idea of extending the opening of a corridor for gardens in the north of the enclave to move south by an extra hour saying the move is due to the high number of civilians responding to israel's call to use the corridor to flee from the north meanwhile hamas members in qatar telling the new york times that leaders hope the state of war with israel will become permanent on all borders and that the arab world will stand with they are quoted in that report dismissing the idea that hamas wants to govern gaza instead expressing support for endless conflict they say the hamas call is not to run gaza and to improve the situation in the enclave the battle is to completely overthrow the situation meanwhile many questions remain about the day after hamas is eliminated us secretary of state antony blinkin making it clear just a short while ago that gaza cannot continue to be run by hamas and that israel cannot occupy gaza let's take a listen to more in his own words when it comes to post conflict governance in gaza a few things are clear and necessary one gaza cannot be continue to be run by hamas that simply invites a repetition of october 7th and gaza uses a place from which to launch terrorist attacks it's also clear that israel cannot occupy gaza what i've heard from israeli leaders is that they have no intent to reoccupy gaza and retake control of gaza so the only question is are there is there some transition period that might be necessary and what might be the mechanisms that you could put in place for that to make sure that there is security so for more insight we welcome to studio international affairs analyst former europe and middle east editor at the associated press and former chairman of the foreign press association dan perry dan thank you so much as always for being here so we just heard antony blinkin and his views on the day after your insights into a what you heard and b what do you think is likely to unfold well uh it's interesting that blinkin still states unequivocally that hamas cannot rule gaza because that stands in contradiction to the idea that israel's time is limited because the worst-case scenario from israel's perspective is that the united states closes the window of opportunity despondent over how things are going and over civilian casualties and hamas remains in power in gaza but look gaza has been a thorn in the side of the world for quite some time no one seems to want it we hear now from hamas leaders in katar that even they perhaps don't want it israel doesn't want it egypt doesn't want it the pa i'm not sure wants it israel doesn't trust the pa to run it and perhaps rightly so and uh the the the list of outside players waiting to come in and help a transition period with foreign peacekeeping troops perhaps is very very small maybe zero so this is a real problem if you ask me what is likely i suspect uh an israeli interim occupation with an effort to rejuvenate the palestinian authority and under some perhaps even new leadership try again some sort of gaza first scenario enroute maybe to a two-state solution something we're going to unpack in a short while but right now i want to go to southern israel and we're joined by our correspondent zack and so zack rocket siren sounding in recent hours in some border communities there day 33 of the war where exactly are you what update can you share right now well we're south of strote and the current situation here is continued from what we've heard the last several days which is outgoing artillery targeting the northern gaza strip is that ground operation and offensive continues into these late afternoon evening hours now we have received an update from the idf today regarding the death of another israeli soldier bringing the current count the confirmed number of israeli soldiers dead to 31 palestinian media today has been reporting that there are close there are operations closer to the hospital al-shifa hospital which has been regarded by the idf as one of the command centers a location underneath the hospital in the tunnels that is a major development in the last few hours regarding the fact that one forces are within gaza city as well as encircling the city and within the last few hours we also had the closure of a humanitarian corridor that was open to allow residents to flee from to the south from gaza city itself so the latest is that gaza city once again encircled and that unconfirmed reports of israeli troops entering into the city and engaging inside gaza we will be coming back to our correspondent zack and is in southern israel for regular updates for now thank you zack and now for more insight we welcome political and military analyst major in the reserves eliot chadoff and he joins us from northern israel major thank you so much for your time you've served in the idf for nearly 35 years right now as we just heard from my colleague the idf intensifying its moves to destroy those hamas terror tunnels inside gaza talk us through your assessment of the ground operation so far the ground operation is going very methodically following a timetable that was part of planning for quite some time in other words the the military is enacting it now but any military that isn't planning operations in advance isn't isn't working properly so the idea of going in going in slowly going in methodically we're very well aware of the tunnel complex a network under gaza very very well executed as far as i can see and i should mention i'm home today but i'm in the reserves in the south i'll be going back tomorrow morning combined arms being used very well on the ground infantry armor the engineers of course critical in locating and destroying the tunnel network and doing a very fine job of it and of course in combination with the air force the navy the artillery as your correspondent mentioned which is constantly firing from the western negif so i would say that at least from where we're sitting now and and with war you can't predict what's going to be tomorrow the the operation is going very much with within the parameters of as planned talk to us a little bit more about these civilian sites on top of these terror tunnels obviously complicating the situation the command centers underneath a hospital give us a sense of the technology used in these cases if you can and the extent of the efforts to make sure that it's Hamas terrorists that are targeted and not civilians well first of all targeting is is only of terrorists in the sense that whether it's artillery air or ground ground forces the firing is not indiscriminate it's against specific targets if there are civilians in the area they're endangered by it and that's according to international law the Geneva Convention nowhere in any international legal or ethical military scenario does it say that the presence of civilians protects military targets rather than contrary the presence of military targets endanger civilians right of course Hamas being fully cognizant of the fact that uh the world in general world media loves to condemn Israel for any damage that's done to to any any civilians any any injury any death intentionally built its system within an intermingled with the civilian population and in particular in the most sensitive spots in schools and playgrounds and in hospitals knowing full well that once again by international law that makes those places legitimate targets but of course that's not how it's going to play out if we strike them so we're being as careful as possible given the fully extended network of Hamas positions in the civilian areas that's also part of the humanitarian corridor and and the the call for civilians to evacuate to the southern part of the strip which is also very much part of the fourth Geneva Convention calls on on forces it went operating in a civilian area to allow for a corridor for civilians to evacuate if they want to and we didn't make this up we're we're taking it straight out of the book right and of course Hamas doesn't like that which is why they're shooting people who are trying to escape and and here you have the paradox of Israeli tanks protecting Palestinians from Hamas as they try to escape the battles a paradox indeed major anti-tank fire earlier from the north to Israeli soldiers are moderately injured talk to us about your concerns around future moves by Hezbollah the risks that Hassan Asrallah is potentially weighing right now before he decides if he is going to get fully involved here your thoughts I don't think Hezbollah intends to get involved here I'll limit that with I don't think very very dynamic situation that can change because of internal pressure or or any number of other factors I think that Iran was behind it all Hezbollah and even Hamas or especially Hamas perhaps were greatly surprised by the immediate aftermath of their massacre on the seventh in other words their intent was to attack a divided Israel that would probably in their opinion follow the model that we did in in 2006 which the second Lebanon war against Hezbollah which may I remind you began with the Gilad Shalit incident Israeli forces moving into Gaza then there was the incident along the Lebanese border and the decision was made not to call up reserves but rather shift those forces from Gaza to Lebanon I believe that they they saw this as version 2.0 of the same war and much to their shock within no time hours in terms of the country coming together and within a day the the military getting attacked together hundreds of thousands of reservists called up many of them on the northern border as well and now Hassan Nasrallah is caught in the horns of a dilemma he doesn't really want to go in and go through what Hamas is going through in Gaza on the other hand he can't completely stand by and let and do nothing because he's already in part a laughing stock and his solution to it is in brick strikes and I hate to say it that way because the people who are injured and killed by it is certainly a tragedy but from a military perspective a symbolic a missile here a few rockets there in and I would even say in his case in the hope that they don't do too much damage right and and to make sure that the Israeli response is measured because we don't want an escalation along the border right now either we don't need a two-front war so I appreciate your insights right now watching all fronts at the same time political and military analyst major in the reserves Eliott Chadoff speaking to us from northern Israel thank you very much for your time my pleasure and talking of the north our correspondent Mary Macaldiff was there earlier and filed this report from northern Israel certainly seen increase in the number of rockets that have been launched towards Israeli communities in the north for three days in a row double digit numbers of rockets intercepted here some of them also doing damage in some of those cities here notably Kiryat Shmona it's a city of some 20,000 people where all the residents have once again been ordered to evacuate they were ordered to evacuate two weeks ago but the local authorities are urging everybody there who still remains to please listen to the instructions to make sure that yesterday two days ago when we saw that attack there was a prime example of why people need to be listening to the directives the family that was almost very seriously injured in that attack had just returned from three weeks where they were in the south and then came back to their homes and we saw that massive rocket barrage again yesterday another massive rocket barrage no damages were caused by that but we know the IDF responded forcefully to the site of where they believe those launches came from also launching a number of different strikes on his blood terror cells in the area and just conducting a number of different strikes last night we saw a massive air strike by the Israeli military on what is said to be a hezbollah weapons depot just causing a huge plume of smoke as the munitions and tons of weapons were detonated in that area so IDF is certainly continuing to respond here we're about five kilometers from the border so it can be anywhere from between 20 to 45 seconds that we have to get to a shelter when sirens do ring out but the closer you get to the border of course of course the more time it takes so the less time you have to actually get to that shelter so this is why also the main fear here for many of the communities who are evacuated they were evacuated because they're within missile range so within the hezbollah missile range and we continue to see hezbollah throwing these anti tank missiles across the border not just at Israeli military posts which have been the primary target over the past three weeks but also at civilian areas today we also knew sirens rang out in a northern Israeli community right along the border the IDF said that was a false alarm but what we have seen in the past few weeks is that numerous times these mortars and shelling across the border from inside Lebanon towards Israel has set off these rocket sirens so this is why all residents who are in this area are told to go to southern parts of the country more towards the center where there's might not still be might not be less rockets but at least they're further away from these missiles that are being fired correspondent Mary McCullough with an update from the north a little earlier from the north to Tel Aviv now senior correspondent Owen Altman joins us where families of the 240 hostages are still waiting for answers Owen can't imagine the pain the agony what can you tell us yeah Benita just a short time ago I interviewed one of the relatives and you're absolutely right it's just incredibly painful to listen to the story to listen to the way they talk in this case about someone who had been taken hostage from the now infamous sadly tragic music festival the nova music festival in Kibbutz Reim and talking about him talking about his plight and interestingly Benita we talked earlier about this report in Axios about the offer for a three day I don't know for three days if you call it a humanitarian pause or a ceasefire but a three day stop in the fighting in order to release 10 to 15 hostages and get the identities verified of all of the rest that's the plan that's on the table so I asked this relative about it and Benita she came out strongly against it seeing it is absolutely insufficient that for a pause of that duration all of the hostages need to be released and she thought it she thought it was just really objectionable to ask the Israeli military to stop fighting and because Israel as she put it did not start this war and Israel as she put it needs to go on the offensive against Hamas and we'll put that sound bite on air over the course of the evening Israel time over the course of the next few hours but it is interesting to hear that coming from a family member herself Benita some of course is advocating for the hostages and for their release to see a deal like this a deal reportedly put forward by none other than the president of the United States as absolutely insufficient to the family members Benita let alone the rest of the Israeli public live from Tel Aviv senior correspondent Owen Ultiman we will be coming back to you of course for regular updates thank you Owen Dan Perry when the situation couldn't get more complicated and intense reports of this potential pause what do you make of exactly what we were discussing a little bit earlier the fact that Qatar the US and Israel reportedly discussing a pause that might involve 10 to 15 hostages being released how viable is that I think it will fly with the Israeli public I mean look you never we're never going to win a Nobel Prize by refusing humanitarian gestures and there is a humanitarian problem in Gaza and Israel would be wise to take that into account in general but I think the feeling in Israel is strong that for a genuine pause in the idea of operation which could serve to take pressure off Hamas maybe enable them somewhat to regroup then all the hostages have to be released I I will say this there is definitely a problem for Israel strategically not just ethically and morally with a humanitarian situation in Gaza putting aside the issue of what is the right deal on any particular number of hostages everyone understands that Israel does not want civilians in Israel to be killed that's clear yeah I don't know of a serious person on planet earth that doesn't understand that Hamas does want civilians in Gaza to be killed however the earth is not composed only of serious people and right now there is a strong narrative setting it in the west that Israel is being reckless now we hear representatives of the government in the army denying it but not doing very much to project a great degree of understanding that that there is an emergency on a civilian front in other words either if the Hamas numbers are wrong and inflated then they should make that case if they are truly as I believe they are making every effort to avoid civilian casualties make the case daily and profoundly and and and look Netanyahu it can convince anyone of anything sometimes it seems he has deployed his rhetorical powers for weaker cases than this one and for less important outcomes if Israel wants to be given by the Americans even despite their sympathy enough time to achieve the goal that I think most Israelis and most people in the world who really are knowledgeable know is necessary the eradication of Hamas they have to keep that window of opportunity open and the thing closing it is the civilian casualties narrative it is an emergency the IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari is giving regular briefings with evidence about the efforts to make sure that civilians are not harmed in this fighting and as we've discussed before this is a war no one wants to see civilians being hurt it is complicated as well something that we spoke about a little bit earlier is the families of the hostages and earlier I spoke to Danny Engel whose four family members were kidnapped by Hamas his brother Ronin Engel his brother's wife Karina and their two daughters Mika 18 years old and Yuval 11 years old let's take a listen to his thoughts on this issue he's always a very optimistic person he usually everything he started with a joke and end with a joke he you know he had many tattoos one of them is saving saying always look on the bright side of life if you know from and this is what that's what Ronin he was he had he was a photographer he was a journalist he he made a lot of things he 12 years ago we wanted a better life for him for his and his family and he went from the big city to the kibbutz and they were very happy there it was a very it was a very like something like a little small village everything is green everything is peaceful and now when I when I went up to my brother and we're sitting on his porch and we are you understand that 10 meters 10 meters from my brother's house is the fence and after that is fields and after that is Gaza and I usually told my brother you know you can be they can target you like a duck you know but I never thought that they could came into the home and took little children in the pajamas and take them to Gaza it's nobody can imagine something like this even with all the pain I don't I bought all the hostages back together not one not two not 15 no any agreement of a few hours of humanitarian nothing if they don't bring back all all the hostages nothing we don't stop part of that heartbreaking interview with Danny Engel a little earlier here on i24 news and Dan as we heard there from Danny all hostages back that's what families are calling for despite the pain for answers about their loved ones it is truly inspiring to see family members who could be forgiven for wanting their own loved one back being this rational actually I I I can only salute them look I think a lot of the world and I hope this doesn't apply to the White House they should know better but there is a sense of a negotiation happening here Middle East bizarre about these things and I think they missed something fundamental this is not another instance like we had in the previous rounds of war with Hamas this is a case where there is not that much to discuss the hostages must come back and Hamas must be obliterated in Gaza almost almost come what may I I've rarely seen Israel so united in a goal it involves potentially tragic outcomes as well but I do believe that it's not going to change and I think outside players who want to play a constructive role need to understand this the the most useful thing that can happen right now it's for Qatar and other Arab countries to make clear that they continue to stay with Israel that's critical exacerbating an already sensitive and complicated situation which we were discussing earlier the difference between Hamas terrorists and civilians something that was mentioned in that interview with Danny Engel and he said that the people who came up and breach the security fence were not only Hamas terrorists and that there were civilians as well who came up and took part in the rampage now obviously Dan obviously we all need to wait for the full investigation to get to the bottom of exactly what unfolded and it's going to take a long time before it's clear exactly who was involved but how does that complicate exactly what we were discussing earlier that distinction right now Israel is trying to eliminate a terror organization at the same time it appears and there will be evidence if it is or isn't the case that civilians took part in that killing rampage as well it serves that a narrative serves many purposes one by the way is an Israeli right wing purpose of saying well they have a lot of support in Gaza Hamas and the people are the same whereas others will say but maintain a distinction on the other hand some will use it to mitigate Hamas's responsibility look it wasn't them the truly terrible things were done by civilians a terrorist is not an official vocation you don't carry a card from you know the terrorist international labor union the minute you cross that fence and started to burn babies in their beds you are a terrorist and that's the end of the story let's wait and see if the world agrees with what you have just said obviously an unfolding situation and again those investigations are going to take a while international affairs analyst former europe and middle east editor at the associated praise Dan Perry always a pleasure having here in studio thank you very much and that is where we end this edition of our breaking news coverage i'm beneath it have been live in Tel Aviv thank you for watching stay tuned this is i24 news is officially in a state of war this is a very active scene and we need to get in the car as we're talking but in a hundred soldiers and civilians have been kidnapped we just don't know anything entire families including babies and children and elderly were butchered in their beds awaken the giant and we are ready and we are strong everyone is showing up this is the unity in i24 news we're coming to you live from Tel Aviv on re of israel's war with Hamas the idf says troops have found and destroyed some 100 it says shows the air force destroying a massive weapons cache inside lebanon this hour sherry fine grossman is a member of forum vorah and she's also the former head of regional affairs at the israel national security council great seasher is drawing tunnels and then we hear of this report that katar might be brokering some kind of ceasefire deal which would see between teldin sideguards and what do you make of it now so many in israel believe that in the idf especially believe that the military pressure is the is what will bring to the freeing of the hostages and if we're seeing the reports that it's true we have to understand Hamas really wants a sort of a break in fighting so he can you know reorganize his structure and and and just exploit the pause to attack again while saying it's a humanitarian crisis the idf is saying that there's enough food and and fuel in Hamas's tunnels and there's no humanitarian crisis of course gaza is is pretty much in in in siege and being taken by by the idf forces so and we were seeing you know all around the world vast pressure especially on president biden to bring a ceasefire of course the images from the gaza strip are extremely severe it's a war it's it's it's not a it's not a pre-site abhi pazna should israel entertain this deal if it is indeed confirmed you know it depends it is very important to continue the offensive you know i remember that in the lebanese war in 2006 kondolisa rise then proposed a ceasefire of 48 hours and aude olmer accepted it and in those 48 hours the khizballa reorganized itself and became stronger in in the in the south but not only you know there is a momentum in our war in gaza in our advance in gaza i think it has to be relentless as far as i know military matters it is very important to continue this having been said if a pause of a few hours or of 24 hours can bring back a serious number of us because again here what we are to what you just said about this kathari source 10 or 11 there are 240 hostages i mean if you have no proof of life for any of them absolutely absolutely we don't have so there's a big difference what we are talking about you know we are talking now in theory the best from a practical military point of view is to continue the offensive if we can liberate a great number of hostages we should consider a pause of a few hours or a day or two yes and also it's a good thing you mentioned that 2006 pause also that happened in 2014 we took a pause and then khamas on black friday we call it we have looked black saturday black friday uh had a serious attack and then he took a dark golden in captivity so and exploited those ceasefire so israel has a very bad history with uh agreeing to ceasefires unfortunately all right okay well let's uh cross to the south now to find out what is going on in gaza this hour our correspondent zack andis is with us now uh hi there's that uh the idea for moving deeper into gazi it's still we've had more rockets being fired today haven't we and we saw some of those rockets on our way to this position in sterot they were outgoing iron dome interceptions now over my shoulder at dusk time with some of the daylight still available you could see a very heavy amount of smoke and dust on the horizon obscuring that view the otherwise uh view that you would have in towards gaza it has been a heavy day of strikes but right now in the last hour it is quieter and this is different than what we saw last night and the night before when this hour and the uh seven eight o'clock nine o'clock hours saw very heavy strikes and heavy outgoing artillery as well right now it is quieter yeah we are used to seeing behind you at this time zack the orange flares and the the missiles and all the rest of it talk us through what happened inside gaza today i understand the humanitarian corridor to allow gardens to move south was extended for another hour and they say that was in result of demand that there were so many people that were attempting to use that humanitarian corridor that they extended it for an additional hour it closed at three o'clock at three o'clock they stopped that route to the south now the interesting part about that route as the idf has told us that they have encircled the city and that there are unconfirmed reports now that some of those forces are inching deeper and deeper into gaza city itself and al shifa hospital but during the corridor hours the humanitarian corridor hours israeli forces did not step out of their vehicles did not man the road or guard the road so they weren't uh physically applying any checkpoints they weren't uh checking people's uh you know persons or documentation as they fled south they let that be a clear route so anyone could join that road and travel south and the idf stayed quite a ways away from that road in their apc's their armored vehicles and in their equipment their tanks and and just watched as the people streamed south many of them you could see holding uh white flags as they did so and just a word on the reports uh of this deal katar in negotiations to try and secure a deal to free some of the hostages right and it's uh been an interesting day if you're a flight tracker some of the open source community people uh have been online tracking certain flights one of those uh a dutch air force plane uh or rather a plane that might have been leased by the dutch air force registered in in the netherlands made a flight to tell of eve today from katar and there's been so many external uh players from so many different countries because you have so many foreign nationals that are part of the hostage population inside gaza these countries doing their best to try and negotiate the release of their nationals right now there hasn't been any word again it's been so quiet on that that in that regard for the the hostages that are inside gaza there has been not movement of course we're now over a week from the last release so nothing more there all right zack thank you very much stag Andrews there and uh sure you find grassman that's a an interesting element isn't isn't it that we've seen planes come uh into tell of eve from katar that what would that suggest to you that would be expected the plane planes are going back and forth it could be uh from musad it could be americans could be a lot of there's a lot of negotiators have been a report about um amos hochstein uh from the u.s. government being in lebanon and involving abas ibrahim which uh he was involved with the negotiations on the maritime border between israel and lebanon like zack said there's a lot of foreign nationals uh that are being held in in gaza so it could be a lot of things and um i don't want to bring up hopes i hope you know people will be released uh but it can it can fall on a lot of things uh but we should do whatever we can to free the hostages it's part of the psychological warfare isn't it it is let's not forget that the hamas leadership is is hosted by katar and has been for many years the americans have is interesting they're still talking about pauses they haven't said the c word the ceasefire word yet well it's like the f word they don't they don't say this the the c word and rightly so because they know that we cannot from any point of view accept now the notion of of a ceasefire which would be a complete ceasefire the pause sounds okay and biden has been very careful to speak all the time about pauses i imagine that there is pressure on israel on the prime minister to go to such a pause also biden needs it politically in the united states there is a lot of pressure on biden but i have to to really to tell you that until today biden is proving his friendship and his support of israel every day in every mean i mean we are very lucky i must say you are very lucky that joe biden is right now president of the united states he's a staunch supporter of israel he's a true friend and even if we have some discussion they are tactical not strategically right and i mean what is the argument for a ceasefire because you've got israel working to get civilians to safety the the military action is focused on the north if the civilians are no longer there this is a fight between israel and hamas exactly the the argument seems look it depends which side of the fence you said it's it's like like the ambassador said it's really a matter of hamas trying to stop the momentum and he hopes with uh getting this ceasefire for a few hours uh the you know the momentum of the ceasefire will come in play and then we can get a longer ceasefire oh we'll stop fighting so let's let's have a longer pause and then he can really reorganize and then the whole attack in the slaughter of october 7 is worthwhile because for israel it's eliminating hamas completely and it's a capabilities and hamas is trying to survive okay all right well as israeli troops move deeper into gaza city they will have to deal with an enemy hiding many meters below the ground in concrete tunnels these tunnels run for hundreds of kilometers presenting a unique threat for idf troops our senior defense correspondent jonathan reggae reports this is the greatest danger awaiting the idf forces maneuvering deep inside the gaza strip hamas terrorists rising from a tunnel dug under the ground firing anti tank missiles or placing ids and quickly disappearing many of the israeli casualties in gaza were hit this way hundreds of such tunnels exist below the ground of the gaza strip and those terrorists can pop up practically everywhere and as is so common for hamas the presence of civilians is never a consideration here you can see the idf soldiers exposing a tunnel opening this is part of a operation a ground operation that was conducted on the hospital then revealed a tunnel that was being used for terror infrastructures in the katari hospital as the forces now go deeper into gaza city more and more such tunnels are being exposed it is an extremely dangerous mission as you never know what awaits below the ground and those tunnels can rise up to the ground in every location this is the reason why heavy artillery is pounding on every area the army is advancing into especially when there is intelligence regarding tunnels that intelligence is superb but no one has the illusion that every tunnel will be detected and destroyed it means the threat will continue to loom on the forces operating in gaza for weeks or maybe even months to come well my next guest knows all too well about the dangers that those tunnels posed to israeli soldiers just over a decade ago a booby trapped tunnel close to gaza left him permanently blind akhi aklain is a former idf unit officer at yahalom thank you very much indeed for being with us and can you tell us then with your experience of what the idf troops are facing as they go into gaza they say they've destroyed 130 tunnel shafts so far what do you think are the main challenges moving ahead first of all thanks thanks for having me i think the challenge is the the complex of the how the tunnel is built underground like the connecting between the houses between hamas hiding and and arm storage and everything so basically it's like we all very known from the picture from the video we know the what we called gaza but they're underground it's a it's a full entire world that exists and the idea for me to take care of that and tell us what it's like to go inside these tunnels and the oxygen the lack of light that the feeling of claustrophobia must be overwhelming yeah i can say it's not easy but uh i came to the tunnel 10 years ago well trained and i'm sure my fellow my fellow soldier that now served in in the idf in the how long unit i very well trained also for that um yeah you know the lack of light uh the feeling of uh of i mean the first step you know exactly where you're stepping into i mean you're stepping into the unknown that's the most scary scary step but um they know they very they have confidence they know what they do and they know why why they're going there so i think that's that's very helpful and the tunnels today are much more extensive aren't they than they were a decade ago hundred percent we saw i mean from 2005 when we was with when we used to be in the gaza strip and we we faced a very shallow channel very undeveloped tunnel and during years and years we saw the development of the tunnel the evolution of the tunnels and they just they became expert of that you know and they they live underground they live in these tunnels they have absolutely everything that they need i mean uh we just heard from the idf spokesperson about how the all the mechanism of hospitals or for a very critical place in gaza like connect directly to to the tunnel directly to their height i mean i think there is no questions they are well they are well prepared for the idea to to go inside the gaza strip and to fight with them so uh i think they are very very well prepared for that and of course they tried to use these tunnels to borrow their way into israel i don't know if you know much about the tunnels on the other side that they tried to use to get into egypt the egyptians dealt with them much more harshly didn't they yeah of course i think the egyptian uh i think the the tunnel to the egyptian side there more there was more like a kind of a smuggling uh tunnels like was a little bit uh big bigger bigger bigger tunnel um and the egyptian know exactly what to do with that i mean let's let's remember the the border between gaza to israel it's way more shorter to uh to the border between uh israel and gaza so they have more uh hands hands on and let's call it like that i understand that they flooded them yeah they did it like several stuff i mean they they they the egyptian taking care of time it was very much more harder and tougher than what we we used to do for to the tunnel between gaza in israel and of course israel can't just go in and destroy the tunnels all together like egypt did because our hostages are most likely being held in those tunnels i mean that's that's i think one of the guesses that i i mean that's the most uh stuff the difficult i think uh the kind of um israel facing it's to to understand where the hostages i mean there is probably highly percentage uh one i think one of the hostages just released she said they they walk in tunnels to a big for a big uh a big place a big room there was either and so i mean it's it's hundred percent make everything more more difficult and as i said there are more tunnels today they're more complex um they've built them over the past decade they've built built up the network um but the idf also has access to resources today that it didn't have a decade ago and what are the the best tools uh that the israeli forces have to to locate and destroy and deal with the tunnels um i mean i i don't know what what what's going on now on the ground uh it was like 10 years ago what i was need to deal and with was completely different world but uh i think it's a complex it's what you just said it's a network of the tunnel it's like not just like a straight line from house to house it's also like uh rooms and like everything that they need there so it's everything just became way more uh complex and one of the stuff that israeli need to do it's like you know to to make sure they don't miss any hole in in the way and to make sure to to clean very to clean it very very good all right achia client fascinating to talk to you thank you very much thanks for having me great to talk to you uh so a little glimpse there at what the the troops are dealing with inside gaza yeah it's uh gallant says the defense minister gallant said yesterday it's the biggest terror base in the world it's kilometers and kilometers of of tunnels with explosive and actually we're learning a lot the idf is learning a lot as we as it goes it's finding out uh new methods about tunnels and hopefully that will be useful yeah for the future and i have to say this is uh um really globally the way we know one has uh this kind of way of method of how to to struggle with you know the terrorism from the tunnels and and the world will learn from our what we're doing and from our losses unfortunately yeah that's that's true isn't it i want to talk a bit about what some hamas leaders uh told the new york times today avi they consider the attacks of october 7th to be a great success um they say they have no interest in in running gaza but they're pleased because they say it's put the palestinian cause back on the table what does it mean they have no interest in running gaza i mean it's absurd they they have been running gaza for 13 15 years and they clutch to it there is one thing which is correct there that the awareness to the not to the palestinian problem to the hamas problem has grown dramatically in the world and we have or we have to help this that it does not become an interest in the palestinian problem but an interest in hamas daesh of what they did to us and their behavior and their in in humanity and it is true that you can see today all over the world manifestation demonstration for the palestinian that's very true and i believe i i personally believe that the timing of the attack of the hamas on the 7th of october days or weeks before we were to complete the deal with the saudis was in order exactly to destroy that and to attract attention to the palestinian that they surely did but if you look today at gaza and see there is if i were a palestinian and i would look at gaza and see the result of what the hamas did that kind of attention i would not like to see well do you think sherry that the attacks of october 7th damaged the palestinian cause i want to say something very important here uh but but the ambassador said it's very important i want to add to that we're seeing every time we're close with the peace with the palestinians and with the region we see terrorists as hamas and others trying to sabotage that well they say they will prepare to a war that's what they said in this interview yeah there were what they said in an interview should shock everyone because they're willing they're basically sacrificed the gaza they basically said we don't care about how many people die whether it's palestinian i mean they knew they knew we would react like this we they knew we would retaliate and they decided to sacrifice all the people that are in gaza right now and of course uh and the horrific events and i think no normal or sane or or any country in the world leader cannot treat hamas as uh as an organization that they can have a discourse with in the future after all this is settled and we have all the evidence will sit down with everyone and they will see this is not someone we can talk to this is someone you just have to defeat and to annihilate from the world like the nazis it's it's it's very clear and and for and for that they made a big mistake and yes there's trying to sabotage peace and peace efforts in the region i want to see more than that every time there's instability in the region you can you can go and see where it comes from it comes from iran iran knows how to exploit every instability in the region what it sees is we're trying to stabilize the region to make its prosperous with our friends and new friends in the ua e in bahrain and now in saudi and and they don't want that instability is bad for iran it's bad for terrorists such as hamas such as khizballah yes like they said they want us to be at war at all times and unfortunately if we let this fall into and fall into that trap that would be very unfortunate i think she is absolutely right and this explains the aim the target of our operation it is the annihilation of hamas i mean of the military leadership the political leadership their grip on gaza their control of gaza really to get rid of it because this is not a it's not a new story during the peace process in the 90s you remember the buses who exploded all over israel during the intifada the second intifada afterwards if we do not get rid of hamas this time we will suffer from it and suffer and suffer in the future and this is an occasion to get rid of their leadership once and for all that brings us back to the ceasefire question doesn't it because israel has always been prevented from finishing the job in the past doesn't it it's it's it's it's much more complicated story for a story i think it's not just a matter it would be very impossible to defeat entirely hamas hamas is a political movement you can't defeat the minds of people we have to educate better our generations both in the palestinian authority and in west bank and in gaza we have to create a different future here for palestinians in the arabs so then we'll talk about what a post hamas gaza might look like after the break stay with us we're taking a short break we'll be back right after this officially in a state of war this is a very active scene and we need to get in the car as we're talking within a hundred soldiers and civilians have been kidnapped help us we don't want to do we just don't know anything entire families including babies and children and elderly were butchered in their beds awaken the giant and we are ready and we are strong everyone is showing up this is the unity me it's it's like a second holocaust i cannot i cannot find any other words to describe what we see in the back i assume some of these items belongs to people that are no longer with us israel is at war make an investment in israel bonds it is the most powerful and direct way to stand with israel visit israel bonds.com and invest now official dresser of i24 news please and gentlemen is reportedly involved in brokering a deal to free between 10 and 15 hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting or a ceasefire that would last two to three days 240 hostages are being held in gaza well the u.s president joe biden is also calling on israel to commit to what he has called tactical pauses in fighting the u.s sector of states ansley blinkin and his british counterpart james cleverly have both outlined their visions for a post-hamas gaza blinkin says israel should not occupy the strip nor should hamas rule and the civilian killed earlier this week in kirjad shmona in the north of israel by an anti-tank missile fired by hezbollah has been named as 55-year-old meya muyal well our senior correspondent owin ultiman is down in tell of the where an event is being held to raise awareness of the plight of the hostages now held in gaza for 33 days owen yeah that's right laura you can see behind me the 240 empty yellow chairs of course signifying the hostages and next to it are behind it that empty shabbat dinner table all set with all of the wine and the khala bread on the table and of course all the places that but of course the 240 hostages themselves not there including some high chairs of course to signify the children and the infants who are being held under the tunnels in the tunnels under gaza by hamas and by others you see the family members here you also see activists and passersby here again the struggle to raise awareness both here in israel and throughout the world of the hostages and their plight and of course laura you're right there reports left and right of all kinds of different plans for a ceasefire and for the release of hostages negotiated through katar another reports by the way another report by the way through haritz of an egyptian track to get a ceasefire of a limited duration with hostages freed you know laura earlier on today asked a relative of one of the hostages how she felt about that axios report for example and she had a response that i thought was surprising she said it's just too little that it's just too little to ask israel for a three-day ceasefire to free 10 to 15 hostages and verify the identities of the rest she said many more hostages have to be released and she implied that the duration of the ceasefire has to be less that israel did not start this war at the israeli military is fighting this war and it's not right to ask the israeli military to stop again with hamas presumably on its heels so it was interesting to hear that from a relative of one of the hostages laura let alone hear those kinds of opinions from the wider israeli public yeah those people going through absolute hell for over a month now mothers father sisters brothers all grandparents elderly people all taken into gaza and of course so in a reminder that 33 days on the kidnappers the terrorists have not provided any proof of life for these people in very few cases right we saw the proof of life for example of the thai hostages reportedly because the government of thailand is negotiating with iran or through iran for the negotiation of the hostages with israel presumably as some kind of third party that doesn't have any influence over events we'll see by the way over time if that's actually true but you're right in most cases no signs of life certainly no visits from the red cross as is mandated under international humanitarian law of course taking hostages certainly civilian hostages is a war crime and that's not disputed of course the cause of the hostages becoming a cause celeb save the people tearing down the posters of course but by and large lore everyone understanding around the world how important the plight of the hostages is of course within the halls of power in israel and in the war cabinet difficult decisions to be made but had a balance on one hand the freeing of the hostages and on the other hand the very important prosecution of this war oh and thank you very much oh in ottoman there down in tel Aviv surrounded by a sea of yellow chairs to represent every one of the hostages who are still being held in gaza for 33 days now sherry fine grossman is with me in the studio as is ambassador avipaz now um i mean sherry can israel even trust anything that kata comes up with well i'm sure they're asking for proofs and uh and we have seen proof of life and in the beginning there was a one hostages that um there were two videos already they came out of female hostages speaking uh and and and of course four four hostages were released but the hostages have been held we've just seen the the three women wasn't in a video around a week ago the children the elderly i mean so many people and we haven't seen any yeah for tall that some us is of course saying that uh it it knows where some or most are but not all some were actually well we know today uh report came out that they actually there was a very structured plan they uh tore down the the wall the gate and then they had people from gaza civilians some of them waiting to take the hostages into tunnels so everything was planned in advance but some of those hostages got into civilian hands and it's islamic jihad uh hands so hamas doesn't control all of it according to what he says i don't know if that's true uh i'm sure the negotiators are asking for proof of the hostages before they agree to anything it's a it's a minimum minimum request but i mean uh if if you ask me there should be a released with no conditions this is uh this is big these are babies and and and women and innocent women they should just be released without any conditions sure i mean why is israel being asked to to tolerate this i mean i there's no other country has ever had to tolerate something like this let's say one of the problem of israel we are asked to do things that nobody else does and when we defend ourselves we are always criticized you know i knew as a veteran of 10 wars let's say i knew at the beginning we have one week or two weeks that public opinion is with us and they understand us and what we ask is okay and then it will shift it will turn i don't say against us but there will be criticism and israel will be asked to do things that nobody else will be asked this is exactly what happened in every one of our wars in every one of them including yonkipo war in 1967 right because that happened so quickly and in 67 by the way in 67 it was a war of six days but it ended when the when the soviets then we went on the golden height and they threatened to nuke us if we continue that was in 67 so we had six days in 67 same in yonkipo after 23 days kissinger asked us to stop after we isolated the third arm we encircled the third army and we were forced to feed them so it is in every war it is the same we have a certain amount of limited time where we can do what we can do and then start the criticism and pressure and i hope we will hold fast against this pressure all right well israel's foreign minister eliko and has been making the case for israel today to lawmakers in the european parliament in brussels take a listen this is not just the war of the state of israel this is the war of the free world we need to win this war in order to ensure that the west will not be next since terrorism it's like a cancer the willingness is all the time to expand and this is the argument here isn't it that israel keeps having to make again and again this is not a war just between israel and hamas this is you know a clash of the free world and those who seek to kill and destroy honestly what's going on on college campuses in the across the us is a huge wake-up call it's a it's a wake-up call of ignorance people are shouting from the river to the sea gaza must be free they don't know which river and which sea okay that's that's kind of the even i just say but yeah no no they don't they don't trust me they don't know where yemen is they hardly know where israel is and and what's with the territory we're talking about so this is a huge wake-up call to the us europe are there they already know this there have been several terrorists attack and and and and well they had their own fight with ices and and you know there is a comparison with what the internet and anti-semitism in raka you know many innocent syrians died in that war and in morsel and iraq but the europeans don't seem to to have the same sympathy for for israel yeah it's a double standard israeli always have to make but i'm seeing you know former colleagues that i speak to in europe they understand they're very concerned especially in france and germany uh they understand and and they see a rise in anti-semitism both on the right and both on the left and and they are very concerned and they and they are admitted won't happen again i hope and they're taking measures against it uh germany leading it and in france as well but um they're very strong the statements from germany exactly exactly but but are there places are alarming like in the uk and then there's a lot of people who are seeing the protest and don't like what they're seeing outside and also belgium uh there there was an interview here about a former iranian uh parliament member speaking for israel right now the uh expats of iran are actually speaking up for israel anywhere and we should listen to them they will if you don't want to listen to us listen to them well i must say i must say that uh we have to take into account a new element the number of arabs and muslims in those countries in europe oh by the way also in the united states but less in the united states but certainly in europe in countries like france germany but can i just say i think there's a difference between people who fled repressive regimes because they wanted to make a new life in a free country and people who want to import the culture of that country they came from what kind of people fled and they don't like israel i mean the lebanese for example in in france there's many lebanese uh christians laura i i take for example i you take the lebanese i will take the syrian as an example in 2015 germany opened its gate to one million syrians today that was for humanitarian reason angela merkel also needed uh people to work but a lot of reason one million syrian refugees came into germany today they are the nucleus of the anti-israeli movement in germany this is a fact and if you take belgium and france and sweden and holland all these european countries that i know well and i like them they do have a problem they do have a problem with a very big muslim it's not only against israel it's also against their establishment today it is translated anti-israel today it is translated anti-israeli demonstration in the street it's not only anti-israeli it's also anti-establishment of those countries i think it's 1400 french and several hundred belgians traveled to syria to join isis we shouldn't oh yes yes yes it is a problem the european authority so i want to generalize all muslims of course of course but there's a there's a lot of the refugees that came from syria have been brainwashed for years against israel in this under the syrian regime so they might flee Assad's regime but they're not pro-israel unfortunately all right well let's get back to gaza because many questions remain about what the strip will look like post hamas the u.s. sector of state ante blinken made it clear earlier that gaza cannot continue to be run by the terrorist group but israel cannot occupy gaza either take a listen all of us want to end this conflict as soon as possible and meanwhile to minimize civilian suffering but as i discussed with my g7 colleagues those calling for an immediate ceasefire have an obligation to explain how to address the unacceptable result it would likely bring about hamas left in place with more than 200 hostages with the capacity and stated intent to repeat october 7th again and again and again ultimately the only way to ensure that this crisis never happens again is to begin setting the conditions for durable peace and security and to frame our diplomatic efforts now with that in mind the united states believes key elements should include no forcible displacement of palestinians from gaza not now not after the war no use of gaza as a platform for terrorism or other violent attacks no reoccupation of gaza after the conflict ends no attempt to blockade or besiege gaza no reduction in the territory of gaza we must also ensure no terrorist threats can emanate from the west bank we must also work on the affirmative elements to get to a sustained peace these must include the palestinian people's voices and aspirations at the center of post crisis governance in gaza it must include palestinian led governance and gaza unified with the west bank under the palestinian authority and it must include a sustained mechanism for reconstruction in gaza and a pathway to israelis and palestinians living side by side in states of their own with equal measures well the british foreign minister james cleverly also outlined his vision for post hamas gaza take this one well obviously what we're seeing at the moment is an israeli military operation in gaza their explicit aim is to remove hamas from the leadership of the palestinian people the uk government's position has long been that we want to see a palestinian leadership for the palestinian people committed to peace committed to a two state solution in the short term in the short term it is inevitable that israel because they have the troops in gaza will need to have security responsibility but our view is as soon as is practicable a move towards a peace loving palestinian leadership as the most desired outcome we have of course raised the future leadership of the palestinian people with the israeli government but the uk's position is clear it is unchanging we want to see a two state solution with a palestinian state and israeli states living side by side in peace all right well let's take a look at what's been happening in the north of israel in the last 24 hours because two israeli soldiers were likely wounded in skirmishes between the idf and fighters for the terrorist group hezbollah the idf has also released a new footage they say it shows the air force destroying an arms depot that belonged to hezbollah they can see a huge explosion on lebanese territory well for more i'm joined now by david dowelt he's a hezbollah and lebanon expert and a senior fellow at the foundation for the defense of democracies thank you very much for being with us david so um what is we've talked a bit about this um just taught me through the latest developments do you see more of an escalation uh thank you again for having me on uh well it depends on how you consider an escalation i think as we discussed the other day hezbollah secretary general hassan lasralla left room open in his um in his speech for intensifying and deepening the attacks uh that hezbollah was conducting against the state of israel uh while not committing to anything concrete i think we're going to see and we are seeing more of that um as secretary or sorry deputy secretary general and i'm cousin told mbc the other day hezbollah's goal and this was seconded by it seemed by by nasralla hezbollah's goal is to divide israeli forces along two fronts as much as possible um without likely without trying to bring war upon lebanon in order to slow the idf's um invasion and military action in the gaza strip buying time for their allies in the gaza strip how much coordination is there right now do you think between iran hezbollah and hamas and is iran holding back or is it digging in for a longer war um well i think the coordination was there from the outset despite um hassan lasralla's denials the other day that hezbollah was not aware of this activity before or the operation on october 7th before it happened i think there was coordination prior to that uh the the irgc meets with its allies in lebanon pretty regularly uh hezbollah secretary general has met with his uh halasin islamic jihad counterpart uh hamas officials in the court during the course of the war he's met with the iranians i think the fact that the messaging has been so tight from hezbollah the fact that hezbollah has not just entered into the war that ismail ghani goes back and forth to lebanon that ismail hania was in tehran this this suggests to me that iran is in contact constantly with its proxies staying up to date on their situation on their needs and on their ability to contribute to the fight um is iran digging in for the long run i think iran has been fighting the long run game against israel for a very long time uh today we had a a hamas official telling the bbc that they carried out the october 7th attack in order to create a state of perpetual warfare on israel's borders i think this has been the case for a very long time but now it's entering a different and more active stage that that we're seeing now and at the same time there have been almost 40 attacks by iranian proxies on us forces in iraq and syria is this iran kind of testing to see what kind of responsive again from the us how does that fit in i'm sure that's part of it i think this is also a continuation of the harassment of us forces that we've seen in the region since the assassination of former quads force commander qasem sulaimani um at the time iran made a lot of threats that they were going to have as they called it hard revenge its proxies also seconded that um that that threat and they said that they were going to each proxy was going to basically do what was within its capabilities now despite all the bellicose rhetoric i think iran realizes that a conventional fight with the united states would not end in its favor uh so what they're trying to do is create a situation of low-level harassment of us forces to basically make it uncomfortable for us to keep any troops in the region um i think this is a continuation of that it is being you know uh excused under the guise of supporting gaza but this is no different than what some the thing you know the activities that we've seen over the past few years at the same time um iran has been very very active on the diplomatic front um trying to kind of build a coalition of of bricks countries um they've also been holding separate talks with tie leaders um to talk about the the tie hostages uh that are being held um just what do you think about this kind of multitasking diplomatic outreach that they're putting on at the moment it's par for the course uh for the islamic republic what they can't achieve by force they try to achieve through diplomatic means i think part of the difficulty of dealing with the islamic regime in iran is not understanding that um they are for all intents and purposes in terms of their objectives identical to ices in terms of their actions their proxies have been have acted identically to ices but they sit in in international fora and they speak the language of international law and it creates confusion on our end and i think this is par for the course for that in the sense that they are continuing to derive what they can uh through the actions of their proxies but also then trying to win the other end of the argument or the other end of the battle that is the diplomatic end david great to talk to you as always david dad at the fdd thank you very much and uh should we find question when you were involved in the abraham accords uh prior to all of this and um iran really did not want israel and saudi arabia to normalize ties they were just on on the cusp of it saudis were talking a lot about how they wanted to improve the lives of palestinians uh this is israel iran's big plan isn't it to stop that from happening yeah and unfortunately there has been consistent messaging coming out from saudi arabia that it's it's still in play that it's still interested in normalizing uh relationship with israel and that's a very positive uh development there are also very very much concerned about uh regional spillover to regional conflict and we're seeing what's going on in yemen and they're involved with ending the civil war in in yemen and the conflict they're involved with for the last eight years or so um so i i i'm i'm seeing it as a very positive development although we're just in i don't want to say in the beginning because it's been 33 days but um we're definitely the middle of things we don't know where they will develop but right now good good indication from saudi arabia that it's still in play and they're still interested uh in the normalization and and you have to remember it's a deal between the us and saudi arabia israel is just uh just a key in the public it's exact abby you are hopeful that the cooperation can still continue once one of i do think so i mean you know there is always an atmosphere a certain atmosphere in times of wars and as soon as it ends it's it's incredible how quickly the atmosphere changes and things which seem to be very difficult like for example an understanding with the Saudis suddenly become in the order of the day but again i must say and i must warn as long as there is a war raging you will see no movement on the diplomatic front between us and even friendly arab country would like to establish ties with israel all right ambassador abby pasna and shelly vane bressman thank you very much to you both thank you laura now in the past four weeks israelis have put together many voluntary organizations to help and support the people from the south and of course the soldiers on the front lines our correspondent robert swift spoke to one couple from the village of the kuma in the south they turned their farm into a logistic center take a look yes so you are in our warehouse usually we have vegetables here but now we opened to we made it a logistic warehouse warehouse for soldiers so we have like you see all the things for soldiers underwear towels things to clean coffee dry food we have also hot food that we bring and give them a hot meals and after this we opened pizza and every day and the pizza is straight from the oven from the taboan all the people here are volunteering very good and nice people and all the things that we need for the pizza the ingredients so everything is donors and sponsors that help us we take the pizza the pies we send the pizza straight to gaza or to the other places like beri sad all the otefaza and outside we opened also place that they have all day most of the day meat that the soldiers can come and sit and eat and hear music and we have sometimes singers that's coming or people that make lectures something about the army to make the soldiers have good mood and can you talk to me a little bit about the the atmosphere in the village not just in this farm but how is the community how much of the people of the village are still here so very few families left here because we've been evacuated by the government and there are very few people here and a lot of soldiers and I can the most important thing for me to say is to all of all of the people that we are strong and we are staying here because we believe in our way we walk our land we wake up in the morning we grow our kids we don't want to live in war we want to live in peace unfortunately our enemies only wants to kill us we thought that we could make peace with them but unfortunately the whole reality went upside down above us so a lot of my friends don't really know what to do how they'll come back and how they'll get back to work we also have a lot of we're also confused but Bezat Hashem I'm sure that Am Israel is a very strong nation and we feel the unity of Am Israel all around the world from people who's coming and calling and helping and donating money and everybody may want to make sure that our place will keep walk and run and and the soldiers will be happy you see the unity of Am Israel it's something very very special that I really really pray and hope that we last four years after the war I would like to say forever but I hope that the unity and then the love of Am Israel that we feel now will stay and and will stay with us for many many more years to come that report by Robert Swift while we're taking a short break do stay with us much more since we come here on i24 news 1300 people murdered and more than 3000 injured and the war with Hamas continues we bring you first-hand testimonies from the front lines from those who survived and all the records of the atrocities by Hamas all of us as Israel fights terror from the south and north get the inside scoop on what's going on only on i24 news but we came to dance people came to dance but I got Arab Muslim friends that got more than and I'm starting to understand that I won't find my answers made for me a unique concept in Israel custom made men's fashion to your measurements made for me designer of all your events schedule your appointment at www.madeforme.co.il made for me official dresser of i24 news good evening ladies and gentlemen welcome back you're watching i24 news we're coming to you live from Tel Aviv on this day 33 of Israel's war with Hamas the IDF says troops have found and destroyed some 130 tunnel shafts in the Gaza Strip since the ground operation began last month thousands of gardens have continued to flee south by a humanitarian corridor protected by IDF troops Hamas leaders have told the new york times that they consider the october 7 attacks to be a success because they put the Palestinian cause back on the table and no one in the region is now experiencing calm Qatar is reportedly involved in brokering a deal to free between 10 and 15 hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting over several days the US president Joe Biden has also been calling on Israel to commit to what he called tactical pauses in fighting and in the north Israel has released footage it says shows the air force destroying a massive weapons cache inside Lebanon belonging to the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah this is two IDF troops are wounded in the latest skirmishes between the IDF forces and the terrorist group well let me introduce our studio guest this hour Daniel Sheik is the former Israeli ambassador to France and left tenant Colonel Doha Navital is the former commander of the special forces in the IDF Good evening and welcome to you both. Shall we start Doha with the latest progress in Gaza as we just heard the IDF says it's managed to destroy dozens of Hamas tunnels now and this is part of the slow and steady work to take full control of Gaza city isn't it? No we did say that the engineering aspect of this campaign is a great magnitude we are talking about 130 tunnels so entry to tunnels that were detected and then and then treated inching in I think the flux of people coming out to the south indicates that they have less fear from the Hamas and more fear from from us so they're going south it works for our for the next campaign to Gaza still I think there's like a hundred thousand more still citizens in Gaza city civilian which would make it complicated for them I think a hundred and a hundred thousand around a hundred thousand people standing out the city still I think this is the number that's the number the latest number I heard and Daniel Sheik Hamas really don't want those images to get out of the the guards and civilians walking with the white flags hands in the air that's very bad for their strategy isn't it well probably there are many things they wouldn't want people to see but you know they they they use visuals and media in the most cynical way possible themselves so they should not they're not really in a position to complain about this I think that what Doran just said is important that there is a there is a shift in the attitude towards Hamas or maybe not the attitude but that they're simply not scared enough of Hamas to remain there and risk their lives which of course is the right thing to do but it's not obvious because the threats threats from Hamas are real they're not they don't need proof of concept but how can how can that be be the case when you've had such heavy bombing over the past 33 days I mean surely people are aware that it's very dangerous yes but still I mean there are always people who just stick around and don't want to leave for all sorts of reasons but in most cases as far as I know I think there's enough proof they were simply forced to stay the first real this is this is an organization that was commanding the self for 15 and more years this is using civilians as part of Hamas strategy they don't even hide it I mean it's this is part of the strategy and high death toll pressure for a ceasefire yeah and using hospitals and mosques and civilians and hostages as you say so yeah that's that's part of it now you might say this is the tactic these are the tactics that are weaker a fighting force must use but this this is the reality and it is certainly against any ethics of war if you can speak about it and certainly against international law but it's a terrorist organization so what what what will you expect well what do you make of the reports that Qatar is involved in some kind of negotiation which would result in the release of just around 12 hostages I remember 240 accounts they want several days of course we are ambivalent about it and I think even though the hostage representative in one hand were of course welcoming any sign of some progress in this context but then the fact that it's limited so it's really limits it's a problem but this does indicates that the grand strategy that putting pressure military pressure on Gaza and on Hamas would result in their willingness to do some negotiation which some people were questioning the strategy in the past all right well let's thank you let's take a quick pause and head to southern Israel our correspondent Zach Anders joins us now with the latest on what is going on in Gaza and the last time we spoke around an hour ago Zach you were telling me it was it was pretty quiet which is unusual for this time of night is that still the case it is not Laura it has picked up I would say that we've noticed maybe a half dozen or so strikes in the northern Gaza Strip the IDF is telling us that one of the areas of focus in the last 72 hours has of course been bet bethanoon where there is continued engagement despite an encirclement line around Gaza city so in high-level military sources have told me that this is not necessarily what you would consider a break of that encirclement line that they still have control over the area but it's the tunnels the tunnels make this a very complex situation where your enemy can potentially pop up behind your lines if you haven't eliminated in those points of entry which has been in the last several days one of the main focuses is to find first find these tunnel locations and to eliminate them or to seal them off or to at the very least know where they are and of course Zach the other huge challenge huge dilemma for the IDF is that the hostages the 240 hostages are somewhere in those tunnels as well Hamas it's now a source close to Hamas is saying that there is some kind of negotiation underway but just 12 hostages being spoken about right now you know and this reminds me of the last time late October when we heard that similar line of dialogue was being had at one point one ministry spokesperson told me that as many as 50 hostages were being discussed and then of course it became just those two those two hostages released so everyone here especially those within the IDF circles take this with a grain of salt especially when these negotiations have to happen at such a high level and behind closed doors we are not really privy to what exactly is being negotiated here either we've had these releases and we haven't been told is specifically what was offered in return so we can't really use that as a measure as to what could potentially be being offered now for further hostages releases and we we just don't know the parties involved either I mentioned earlier that there was a Dutch Air Force plane that landed in Tel Aviv today from Qatar there's so many different nationals national states that are involving themselves in this as well yep that's right Zach a lot of confusion surrounding that negotiation or reporting Zach Anders thank you very much indeed thank you and yeah I can confirm the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte is on his way to Israel he'll be meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the second time he is on his way here following meetings in Doha Daniel Schek what do you make of that well first of all there is no doubt that the Qataris are involved and there's no doubt that they should be involved the degree of success that they might or might not have is of course a big question is Mark Rutte the right the the person who will bring the Qataris to towards a more successful conclusion I I don't know but hopefully anyone any you know if there's if there's a situation where you use the term whatever works this is this is the one it's also interesting that today the Egyptians spoke up on their involvement in negotiations if there's the beginning of a competition of who's going to succeed I think that's a very positive and healthy thing I think the general conventional wisdom is that Qatar has the best chances of leverage on Hamas for the moment the question is how you know for how long will Hamas want to extend this negotiation if they keep negotiating ceasefire or a pause or I don't know what in exchange of 10 or 15 hostages this is going to take much too long so and there are many people who are very fragile elderly people infants children sick people it's it's simply not something that Israel should or anyone should accept we are the goal should be everybody at once is it feasible I don't know dawn and in military terms and what would Hamas do with a two or three day pause in the fighting of course they have they have to generate you know supplies even I would say rest organize the campaign they would use it in any way possible to prolong this campaign as they prolong the campaign also pressure on Israel in terms of the window operation can be limited so of course we don't want to allow it and I think we have to keep the pressure up Israel Israel's position was very clear ceasefire in return for a deal of negotiating the whole hold the hostages the whole group but you have to be very smart in handling and negotiating with organizations such as this because we have to get knowledge and information we can use it to our advantage also in terms of the possibility of military rescue operation which are not out of the map it's always in our mind this is an this is another venue that can work if we have the right intel we can do it all right well I'd like to bring in Hossain I've done Hossain he joins us now he's a research fellow at the FDD the foundation for the defense of democracy is great to see Hossain and I just wanted to get your take on those comments by Hamas officials talking to the New York Times today they say they want eternal war October 7th was about prompting a fierce Israeli response whatever the cost to the Gaza people what are your thoughts on that well that's pretty much what we expect from Hamas they've been saying this from day one they expect the world the UN the international community they expect everyone to be responsible for the safety of the Palestinians in Gaza except for themselves so they don't see themselves in charge of the safety of these people and which proves the the idea that this is a hit and run violent non-state actor which is which can be easily classified as a terrorist group and as such it has no place between civilians especially in a place as dense as Gaza Hamas is clearly taking a serious hit by the IDF operation over the past 33 days at the same time you've got Qatar now saying that it's involved in some kind of negotiation to free just 12 hostages or so out of 240 do you think Israel should should entertain these proposals well I can't say now to any release of hostages everyone wants to see hostages released anytime but let me just say about what Doha is doing what they're offering now is less than what Khalid Mashaal offered in his interview on Al-Arabiya so Mashaal said that his group and the other factions were ready to release all non-military hostages that they have they only needed some interruption some short he's fired for the logistics for them to be able to put them in a car and send them away so I think the Qatari proposal at this point is even less than what Khalid Mashaal was suggesting and I don't think Qatar is coming up with any ideas that only shuttling messages back and forth and most of the time they're just presenting Hamas's point of view I just want to ask you about the humanitarian corridor that Israel has been supervising allowing Gazans to move from the north to the south away from the conflict zone these images have reportedly really angered Hamas leaders they don't want to see people moving away to safety waving white flags with their hands in the air well this is typical we've seen this I mean this happens in the Iraq war the Saddam forces did the same with Iraqis who tried to get out of harm's way I said in Syria ISIS also did the same thing forced the Iraqis in Mosul this the non-combatant civilians to stay put we know this we know that Hamas tries to hide behind these civilians I've seen a few interviews with these Palestinians who were moving southward and they were saying the truth they were saying that we passed by Israeli troops they didn't kill us they didn't shoot at us they were shooting but it was in the distance and this debunks not only the Hamas idea this debunks the idea that Israel is out to get any Palestinian that it can get its hands on and this is the most common message that you would hear from many Arab media outlets that's not true you know Israel doesn't want to kill Palestinians Israel is going after Hamas do you think that is a message that is getting through to the wider Arab world well I think the ones who know know so for example the government of UAE to an extent Bahrain and Saudi Arabia but the ones who insist on knowing and still putting out a populist message I think that's not helpful we cannot expect things to turn to peace if if all these media outlets keep on instigating and keep on putting out inaccurate information this instigation will last for a long time and this is unfortunate and and we've been all saying this words matter and in this specific instance Arab words matter I want to go back to Qatar if you don't mind do you think that there might be consequences for Qatar if they don't manage to come up with something because you know they they are the ones who have been hosting Hamas they've put themselves in some kind of mediator role if they're only going to be able to to secure the freedom of 10 or 12 hostages do you think that could have long-term consequences for them in terms of their relationship not only with the United States but with the other Gulf states as well well to my mind what what Qatar does is that they hide their support sponsorship and their sponsorship of Hamas and the sponsorship of something like Al Jazeera which is almost a Hamas mouthpiece they hide these relations behind the diplomacy that they wage so whenever they support Hamas they say this is part of brokering a deal and they go and they they stand in front of the world and they say don't blame us the Israelis asked us to talk to Hamas the Americans asked us to talk to Hamas so they hide whatever sponsorship they're hosting of Khalid Mishal all the support the diplomatic and the financial support that they give behind this idea of being the brokers and I think this is not helpful this hurts diplomacy and this hurts everything and everyone and I would really like to see the US just tell Qatar to cut it out just you know you have to stop doing what you're doing if we want to talk to Hamas there tons of channels it's not like Qatar is the only one that can pick up the phone and talk to Hamas so I don't see a reason why the Qataris are doing this I understand that they're seeking some spotlight you know some global diplomacy spotlight but I don't think that what they're doing is helping and the UAE on the other hand has taken a leading role hasn't it in terms of both diplomacy and the humanitarian response it's flying in aid to build field hospitals inside Gaza do you they're making other countries in the region Egypt for example Qatar as well look bad well I think thankfully the UAE remains the one of the few clear-eyed policy makers in this region over the past few weeks we've heard so many statements from Palestinian and Arab officials that made any post-war Gaza plan seem toxic to any Arab who would even discuss it so now we see the UAE getting on board first of all with this field hospital and second when talking to the PLO they're technically saying that we should be ready for the day after everyone knows that this war will come to an end sooner or later when it does the Palestinian authority the Arabs the Arab countries they should be ready they should have a plan for the day after the war like I said this so far this has been toxic and thankfully the UAE has been clear-eyed and has been leading on this has been pushing everyone to lead on this Hussain Abdel Hussain at the FDD thank you very much thank you and that is a debate here in Israel as well what should Gaza look like once Hamas has been destroyed sure I think we heard lately or even today the Saudi one of the minister of Saudi Arabia talking about the day after and I think the Saudi initiative in this paradoxical way it doesn't go away just because of this event on the on the contrary maybe after this ends and Hamas is being eliminated so all our allies in the area and the Saudis the US would have to come with us together to think of original solution to the conflict and I think Palestinian authority would be a leading agent as weak as it is and so but this is the start look I don't know how Gaza will look and all these talks about you know raising Gaza emptying Gaza of its inhabitants and these are just slogans they don't they're not an operational program one thing is clear that Gaza cannot function the way it did before there's no way that you just go back to what what was the situation on October 6th like it was during other rounds you know where you just got a ceasefire and you bought quote unquote a year or six months of quiet this is this can't happen and I think the optimistic view I completely agree with Doron if you can integrate the future of Gaza into the big picture into the big regional picture building on both motivation of Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel in the framework of a bigger deal between Saudi Arabia and the US and if you can harness other regional players then I think that is probably the best exit strategy from a non-military point of view okay all right well sadly 33 IDF soldiers have now been confirmed killed in the fighting in Gaza well two friends are both soldiers from the Galani brigade have been injured and they're now relearning how to live their lives with their injuries our Dixie Avent has the story hey bro such a kick in the face shall we do some kicking for the camera because last time you lost look at him he's fussy he cried for a long time you're not keeping up Shalom you guys make a lot of mess in the department I see we're the most active in the department no question what can you do we're Golani Corporal Noam and Sergeant Shalom soldiers in the Galani brigade became good friends on their first day of training me on the 7th of October this close friendship became a shared destiny I was stationed at the al-umim outpost and then the military commander informed us that terrorists infiltrated Nahalaz and Pega those are the two other outputs of the battalion in one which Shalom was stationed both fought in different locations Noam fought outside Kibbutz al-umim and Shalom near Kibbutz baeri I raised my weapon fired in the direction of the terrorists I was hit by three bullets one in the leg just below the knee one in the neck after six minutes I got another one encountering a terrorist at a meters range who fires several bullets this terrorist died I shot another terrorist after him he fired two bullets in the direction of my leg the lower leg that's when the leg was broken they fought long hours and parallel to each other together with their friends from Galani they had dozens of terrorists and in one of the encounters Noam was very seriously injured and Shalom was critically I took out my phone called my older brother for a farewell call I love you as it were then he asked if I wanted to talk to mom and by and large I wasn't able to talk too much you could say I was dying on the phone I've been bleeding for three and a half hours we fought a tourniquet somewhere I lost hope I said Shem Israel recited a chapter of the Psalms and began to say goodbye verbally a few hours later they were both evacuated to Soroka Hospital and hospitalized a room apart from each other they hovered unconscious between life and death for days long days how long were you sedated and ventilated three days and that's it then you wake up you look at the body there's a moment of crisis like that you that you realize fuck I don't have a leg anymore I cried my life out first what am I doing now how will I live when Noam woke up first he discovered that in order to save Shalom's life the doctors also had to amputate his leg I say shit he also had his leg amputated his right foot my left foot only that he's a size 44 so barely 44.5 you're drugged a lot with a lot of drugs so every time you get up you're like what about Shalom what about Shalom when he woke up they took me to his room my voice was really weak and I tried to shout him like this Shalom Shalom oh third officer that's what they call him in training because I was yellow I claimed that I was not yellow I was good at what I do there's a difference he's a politician they moved to the orthopedic rehabilitation department of the Shiba tell Hashomer medical center where most of the war wounded are and they stayed together there as well arrived a day before me then I got here and we went to the person in charge listen I have a friend here if I'm together with him we can really strengthen each other because we are in quite a similar rehabilitation how do you strengthen each other competitions with the chair sometimes we like to collide like cars very lightly Shalom Shalom always sits at the exit of the room he always blocks the exit then he came to me one more time then I moved kicking him in the wheel at first it was cute nice like come bro pass today is shut up wait here these two who have lost close friends have a special way of coping optimists will never leave and I'll tell you why for those people who protect me mentally I owe to them not to lose my optimist there are moments of difficulty when suddenly you hear him I don't know what just cursing in the air because he is in pain yes either you just hear a little groan of pain or he hears me so you yell relax come I'm with you bro everything is good you know strengthening coming and sitting next to each other words of love aren't really what always helps so it's shut up I'll give you a kick they bravely publish their story on the web of course the posts reach hundreds of thousands of likes and since then quite a few have come to visit and strengthen them even the people that they saved well they'll be friends for like those two won't they all right we're gonna take a short break stay with us much more so to come right after this it's like a second all across I cannot I cannot find any other words to describe what we see in the back some of these items belongs to people that are no longer with us each of war this is a very active scene and we need to get in the car as we're talking within a hundred soldiers and civilians have been kidnapped entire families including babies and children and elderly were butchered in their beds awaken the giant and we are ready and we are strong everyone is showing up this is the unity the civilian who was killed earlier this week in Kiryat Shmoner in the north of Israel by an anti-tank missile fired by Hezbollah has been named as 55-year-old Meir Mouyal Qatar meanwhile is reportedly in talks to secure the release there is as Meir Mouyal who lost his life in the north of Israel well Qatar is reportedly in talks to secure the release of between 10 and 15 hostages in exchange they want a two to three day ceasefire and the British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says he'll hold the Metropolitan Police Commissioner accountable for his decision to allow a mass pro-Palestinian demonstration to go ahead in the capital this weekend and London's Met Police rejected a request by the British government to ban that march the march will coincide with Remembrance Sunday when the country honors its fallen soldiers some six groups are involved in organizing the march one of their leaders Mohammed Khatem Sawala is a former Hamas chief what from on that we're joined by Catherine Perez Jacques Dam she's an expert on Iran Yemen and radical movements as she joins us now great see you again Catherine and it's not just Sawala is it there are concerns surrounding some of the other organisers of these marches yes unfortunately many of them have actually even if loosely ties to Hamas another organisation that are slightly concerning notably the Muslim Brotherhood I know that the Muslim Brotherhood is obviously not prescribed but it doesn't mean that they don't have ties with Hamas and have been proven to funnel funds to Hamas so this is very concerning and unfortunately it seems that the authorities don't have a grip on what is actually going on in the streets of the UK and I'd like to add that it's rather despicable that those organisations bearing in mind the the slogan that they're holding have been allowed to march in the streets of the UK on Remembrance Day when we should be honoring our fallen soldiers who did give their lives for freedom and our democracies so it's rather concerning and again in my mind despicable and I think there's a lot of people in the UK who who agree with you Catherine I mean we've seen reports in recent days of elderly poppy sellers and the poppy is of course the the symbol that people wear throughout the month of November 2 to honour the the fallen soldiers the greatest generation of people who fought in the Second World War and they've been attacked by pro-Palestinian protesters. It's not just that I mean this is this is obviously a crime and I hope that people get persecuted and and treated accordingly to their crime but what concerns me the most and I've actually written about it in the Daily Express is this I would say invasion and taking over of our symbols and monuments by flying colors that are not our colors and by that I mean the Palestinian flag taking over certain monuments the desecration of British monuments and also this black flag of Jihad that has been carried by certain individuals across the streets of the UK and the call that it's leading to this you know free free Palestine from the river to the sea this is a call for genocide and so for these those cries and you know those flags to coincide with Romain Verne's day is absolutely imaginable and I can't understand for the life of me why would the authorities tolerate this and I understand that the UK is very much attached to freedom of expression and of course the right to demonstrate and we should all dear to those values but at the same time when you have people who stand against those values to allow them to flood our streets and to be let I would say completely free to do as they wish but me equates to a form of colonialism and this is exactly what we're looking at today I'd like to remind everyone who is listening that Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood just a week ago almost to the day issued a fatwa calling for the death of all Jews wherever they stand and they raised the black flag of Jihad and so to have this happening in the streets of the UK on remembrance day for me the absolute insanity and stand against everything that we have fought for and and the fact that so many people had to die for it and that we're desecrating the memory makes me extremely angry and I just wonder you know what is it that needs to happen for people to realize that we have been invaded people have been activated and by that I mean those outposts that we have warned against coming out of the RSGC and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood they all have one single goal in common and that is the death of all Jews and the desecration of our Western democracy to lay waste to them and there is some evidence isn't there Catherine that these protests are in part stirred up by IRGC agents in the UK can you tell us about that but we know for example that members of the Islamic centers as well ideologues of the Islamic Republic of Iran have flooded our streets they're already here in the UK they have been identified we know that to be true again this is not me making conductors we know that to be true we have a former if there is such a thing a leader of Hamas walking the streets of the UK we have several members of the Muslim Brotherhoods we have people that have been identified as troublemakers we know that those people have gone on to social media called for acts of genocide violence against Jews but also Christians so again my question to the med police and everyone else for that matter in the UK right now is how can they pretend to serve the people of the UK if they're allowing for those elements within society whom we know are actually begging for violence to take place in our streets to be allowed to march throughout our streets and to force many of us to actually have to barricade ourselves in our home synagogues have been closed because of it because they are worried that you could find tensions and that they're very existent and presence in the UK including that of all Jews would maybe push people to commit acts of murder or acts of violence and that that is insane you know to think that the people who are the appointed victims have had actually have to hide and cover themselves and prevent other people to identify them as Jews so that the streets of the UK could be made safe the honest is not on us to hide but on the authorities to make sure that we are protected because we have an inherent right to exist and to breathe and if that would find someone tough luck because we're not going anywhere you know it's it's a really frightening time for Jews in the UK and elsewhere in Europe as well and I just want to talk a bit more about this march that's due to take place at the weekend because organisers and they are very organised they've handed out a document to people who want to take part telling them how to avoid being arrested well that is charming isn't it again I think that one of the cards those organisers are actually playing and that tells you everything that you need to know in terms of the agenda behind it because those people did not wake up one morning with a Palestinian flag in their home so someone is stirring someone is organising it has been architected that way and that leads me to think that the violence that we see is also being architected and promoted from you know whether it's Tehran or Qatar or Ireland because the Muslim Brotherhood has offices in Dublin it doesn't matter really but you need to understand that they there is a will behind those movements that's number one number two you know the fact that they want to hide behind what I imagine would be Islamophobia and trying to corner the authority then essentially shame them in action by fear of being labeled a racist by fear of being labeled in Islamophobic is absolutely insanity and I'd like to say one thing when we talk about Islamophobia which is an act of racism there is a difference here because we're talking about terror elements within our society so phobia is an irrational fear I don't think that we are being irrational we are very rational in our fear the fear that our democracies are being overrun by a pack of people wanting to desecrate everything that we hold dear and people who are actually calling for once again for a genocide and not just of the Jews but Christians as well because they have called for the breaking of the cross as they say so I would encourage people in the UK to actually wake up that these streets are being overrun by elements that need to be taken out well we'll see what happens this weekend Catherine the Prime Minister says he'll hold a Met Chief responsible for how that march goes and we know through we know London's got through quite a few Met Chiefs lately so we'll see what happens there Catherine Pereschakdan thank you great to talk to you okay with me the studio ambassador Daniel Sheik is the former Israeli ambassador to France and Ohana Butale is the former commander of the special forces of the IDF and it's really worrying isn't it to see what's going on we're now at the fourth weekend of another huge rally a huge march you know it's easy to imagine what it's like to be visibly Jewish in London right now that's another weekend on lockdown London and Paris and wherever there are large communities of Jews in large communities of Muslims now I know that people don't always like to hear this or don't always like to believe this but I promise you that what you are seeing in these protests although it's infuriating by any measure it is not the general public's view it is the noisiest part of public opinion not the largest and there I've actually seen a few polls in the in the last few days from several countries in Europe which show that they're still I don't know if it's forever but there is still widespread solidarity and sympathy for Israel so you know I don't know how comforting this is if you're a Jewish person trying to live your life in a city where there are tens of thousands of people on the streets who are shouting kill the Jews I'm not saying that that's a good thing obviously but it doesn't reflect what the political elites believe and it doesn't reflect what the general public believes I know it for a fact in France I may not be as knowledgeable about a poll in the recent poll in the UK says 75 percent of British people would like a ceasefire and there's also a big discrepancy in age yeah do you know anybody who wouldn't want to ceasefire you know if you ask that question it's a misleading question I mean it doesn't mean anything yeah would you do you like motherhood and apple pie yes I do I love apple pie so everybody wants peace but I think that when you ask do you I think that was the question what do you feel towards Israel after the events of October 7th there is there is in general there is there is sympathy well there must be but again I just to make it clear it doesn't diminish anything from the severity of what is happening on the streets marching for Hamas is inexcusable by any measure and it's also very stupid and very unhelpful to the Palestinian cause to confuse Hamas with the Palestinian cause of Islam or even the the the respect of the Arab nation this is a really a grave mistake and it's I completely agree that I think the general public in Western European countries for sure the central European countries that are fully behind us but also in the US are not in this position there's a problem with the liberal elites in some of those colleges like my alma mater Columbia University exactly where some confused the postcolonial attitude confused the people to see what's right before their eyes Hamas is a terror organization doesn't represent the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian resolution the Palestinian case wouldn't be wouldn't be led by Hamas for no and there's very little knowledge about Palestinian rejection either the fact that they have rejected even the history of the Palestinian Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so confused when you talk with those college students I mean I can personally my mother is from the from old Jerusalem the old city 48 she's a Palestinian refugee but yeah so there's a whole story here between us and the Palestinian it has to be resolved and those foreigners have a failure of Israel though to explain the Hasbara the movement around the world the Israelis have failed to explain either it's a failure I think when we are not victorious in the battlefield and we don't also victors in the diplomatic sphere then this momentum against that is being generated we have to be active again in both venues and and also work for some kind of resolution but of course Hamas has to be eliminated there's no question about it and I think that the world is with us Indian there's a very ungrateful formula that I have to share with you but it's very difficult to be victorious both in the battlefield and in any different no for the simple reason that in the dog strength is weakness and weakness is strength and I to be honest I'd rather be stronger on the battlefield in the media yeah what was it golden mayor said we'd rather be alive and unpopular rather than dead and popular yeah quite all right well on that note Hamas leaders said in an interview to the New York Times that they considered the october 7th attacks to be a great success they said that they hoped for a permanent state of war and that they have no interest in running Gaza Hamas has ruled the enclave for 17 years now explaining why so many Palestinians have fled many of them to Europe Israel's channel 12 reporter Ohad Hemo spoke to some of them this report was made before october 7th apparently there's no greater contrast between the setting that surrounds us and the subject of the article between the magnificent palaces of classical Europe and the narrow alleys and poverty of the Gaza Strip and yet these worlds meet here in recent years Europe has become the refuge for a lost generation of young gods who flee as long as they are able only here without the terror of Hamas behind them can you hear poignant texts and a true description of what is happening beyond the iron curtain of Gaza how are you I hope you're well hello there what's up I'm fine how are you is everything all right my family released a statement this statement what is the statement issued a statement just because I said I believe in peace what is the statement what did they say that they're giving up on me the family's giving up on you giving up on me because you said you wanted to that we want to share life that we want peace we filmed this report recently just before the war without guessing that a few weeks later the reality of our lives would change dramatically we went to meet the only Gazans willing to talk to Israeli television we share a common enemy everyone will tell us some of them will be photographed with the faces exposed but today to save god their lives we have blurred almost everything except for the voices the likes of which you have never heard I am 18 and a half years old I ran away yes and praise god I got here but I suffered hardships on the way I was in prison in Turkey and my leg was broken if you are a commander or a senior member of Hamas you are considered a king in Gaza but if you're not associated with Hamas your life is a joke those who have money those who live well these are the only factors related to Hamas only Hamas members only Hamas people me if my father was a commander in Hamas I would not leave Gaza I could build a future someone would take care of marrying me someone would take care of building me a house and providing me with a monthly salary Hamas robbed a lot of our lives a lot of our time robbed a lot of our young people stole the ambitions the hopes stole everything good in our life if as a Hamas member you have power in Gaza why didn't you join them they are corrupt using the name Islam or the things they do they do declare themselves to be Muslims but in reality they are promiscuous they commit adultery and go with prostitutes millions of dollars are entering Gaza why don't people see anything from it and there is no money where is this money where it's all for them their families their children and their wives and why didn't you join Hamas if that's the case if they are the ones who have the money who have power and influence they have everything why didn't you join them I'm not fooling myself let's say they told me to come to work with them who would I fight who will I die for let's say I go with Hamas either I'll end up dead or I'll end up wounded and what will they give me they will say that they will give me a hundred dollars and it is not at all certain that you will receive the money it's all a lie they are liars they laugh at everyone they tell you jihad for the sake of God well look at your citizens we know that every father is responsible for his family you're responsible for us you must be interested in us and then think about wars and problems in the meantime we want peace let's go back six years when you're in Gaza and carried the slogan we want to love yeah what happened then we started our journey as the first opposition movement in Gaza it was 2017 people came out tens of thousands of people came out in the Jabalia refugee camps in a nonviolent manner and called out to Hamas we want electricity we demand to live we demand our rights Hamas welcomed this nonviolent protest with live fire instead of Hamas addressing the people's problems and trying to solve them it dealt with the problem in front of the guards and public by shooting at the demonstrators and by breaking their arms and legs and in practice Hamas succeeded Hamas did succeed the demonstration stopped the demonstrations are over and Hamas managed to suppress this protest by force of arms a weapon we did not expect to be used against a nonviolent protest Hamas always repeated the slogans we will destroy Israel and we will use weapons against Israel and it is clear that they use these weapons against the Palestinian people they arrest people break their legs they might shoot me kill me sure there's no place to joke they can ban you tell you you pass on intelligence you collaborate and you'll be imprisoned for 25 years 10 years you have no problem in this organization they don't see us as human beings at all for them we are business they see us as a business a source of income we are their source of income have you ever met with you no i haven't have you ever met an Israeli i've never met an Israeli is there a chance that someone will openly say in Gaza today that he is for peace and that he supports peace with israel in Gaza obviously impossible it's forbidden not allowed in any way they will take you to prison or your family even if you are abroad for example if it were to happen to me that i'm here they'll jail my father my mother my brother my sister because you support peace that's it in the case i'm considered the collaborator are you satisfied with the presence of Iran with his ballot in Gaza no not satisfied unsatisfied how could i be satisfied why should i be satisfied while the Iranians live a prosperous life why should i be satisfied while the Turks live a prosperous life why should i be satisfied while the Syrians live and we are the ones who everyone trades why would i be satisfied when many wars that took place in Gaza we were not interested in these wars Iran was interested in launching missiles at Israel why won't Iran shoot missiles at Israel but we will shoot them why should we die for them and not them die for us why not die for themselves why are we the ones who die Hamas received supplies from Iran get supplies from the Assad regime in Syria and Hezbollah why did you involve Hezbollah what is our relationship with Hezbollah when will i see you in Gaza certainly one day we will meet in Gaza why not it's a bit strange what an Israeli a Palestinian from Gaza let's meet in Europe yes that's the problem that we meet in Europe we should have met in Gaza or Tel Aviv well fascinating conversation a young Palestinian man he managed to escape Gaza and make a new life for himself in Europe kind of giving us a glimpse of what life is like under Hamas um Don Abital and Daniel Shecker are still with me um and Don it kind of it's a reminder of how you know gangs operate on in poor neighborhoods you know if you're not affiliated with the gang forget about it you have no income you have no respect nothing yeah terror regime and we have to admit that there was one moment I think that we even we're led to think that Hamas wants to take responsibility civilian responsibility over Gaza and we remember there was a moment in which we were trying to separate between Islamic jihad and Hamas and saying maybe Hamas is going pragmatical and in in this direction but this was a decoy and this is where we found ourselves after this terrible setback and massacre of October 7 yeah there was a miscalculation wasn't there on the part of Israel that Hamas wanted to be legitimate rulers they wanted to take care of their people well I'm not sure that's what they wanted they wanted us to believe that that's what I mean they wanted us to believe that um and you know I don't know the numbers it's a very interesting report I saw it the other day um but I do know for a fact because I I know some people who live in Gaza and in the framework of a an NGO collaboration and they are elites you know but all of them nearly without exception have kids who live abroad and the parents who are attached to Gaza and who have reasons to stay they urge their children to stay away and they probably know why I can understand you know it's very difficult to imagine a bright future for a young man or a young woman living in Gaza it's by by any measure it's not a normal life that you can promise them all right Daniel shake door and avatar thank you very much to you both well before we go uh let's take a quick trip to New York because an Israeli-owned coffee shop was forced to shut its doors amid a mass exodus of baristas who quit their jobs in protest at the war with Hamas but the local Jewish community stepped up to say the least Mike Wagonheim has the story the line stretches down and around the block for the second straight day here outside cafe or on on Manhattan's Lexington Avenue several pro-Palestinian members of the staff here at this cafe quit over the owner's support of Israel that owner says that since that time the entire community both customers and volunteers have stepped up to the plate to keep his business running and thriving I think we really saw in New York come together New York really support us it's a community here that is very unified we have a lot of juice here a lot of people that know what's going on a lot but don't know what's going on but when the time came together for people to come together it happened I think that New York and Israel both know terror all too well and the amount of support we're seeing is unprecedented we didn't we didn't see it coming honestly and residents of the neighborhood here say during such a perilous time they feel almost an obligation to come out and support cafe or own I want nothing more than to support the Jewish community I feel my heart broke to hear that he lost all his staff and I think immediately everyone decided in an instant it wasn't even a question that we were going to come out here and support quite honestly what happened on October 7th was an absolute massacre and horror and we stand together as a community as an American who cares deeply about the relationship that we have Israel and Jews here in America against anti-Semitism we have to stand united and for one particular neighborhood resident the situation is very personal my cousin major italia Hoshua was murdered by Hamas at Kibbutz v. Erie he was in the first wave defending the civilians there and every day since October 7th I've been thinking about what I can do here in New York to defend his honor and support my family over there and today this is what I can do to support them now the owner here Aaron Dahun told us that he felt like he had a family with his employees here at this cafe he found out in fact he didn't but other family members of sort have simply joined on oh we have my mother working to register we have Zoe one of our baristas she's stayed on she's she's doing a phenomenal job today really she's a manager from one of our other locations and you know a good amount of our staff stayed on we lost five some stayed on we've been trying to get interviews going on to get more people and it's just been overwhelming the amount of support the amount of love even from the remaining staff Dahun says sales from proceeds here will continue to go to those in need in israel he says they've already raised 36 000 for a new McGendavida dome ambu cycle he's told us he's contributed to causes around the world including Ukraine and after the infamous port explosion in Lebanon reporting here from Manhattan Mike Wagenheim I-24 news Mike Wagenheim there well now they're famous sounds like a great place to get a cup of coffee well that's it from me do stay tuned though Caleb Benderbyd is here next we'll have all the very latest updates for you we'll be back in the same time tomorrow good night