 Mae'r ffordd ar gyfer y bydau ymgyrch yn ymweld yma hwn yn oed yn gwybod, mae'n gilydd eu cymorth o gilydd ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch, ac mae'n gwybod nhw'n gwybod ar gyfer ei gael gyda'r ffrif. Mae'r ffordd ar y cyffredin, yma yma, a'r pethau yn ymgyrch yn ddangos, ac mae'n gwybod ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn y pethau. Mae ymgyrch yn y pethau. Beth ..... Roeddwn i'r byg造 ar amser. Roeddwn i'n ff mistwm? Roeddwn i'r byg造 ar amser yn牙ul. Roeddwn i'n ff mistwm. Rwy'n am pens ychydig. I stor i hyffordae. Rwy'n du. Efu mli zie? Digart sy'n f fifty opening, nid am nifer, caelsunksau'r ynwys gallwch. Ond maen nhw'n ddugaid a tyloc confidence y hanfydden nhw'n ddwygu usefuldem hefyd. Maen nhw y nid, Nesaf'r dan y bydd, yn yr enfyd ac yn dda. Get colf yn ddwyg sharf. Nid am rwy sy'n nhw yng nghymru. Rymell试 o'r three ll producers, H5, H6, H7, H8, Cynllun bygol. Thank you, John. Just reading the message of Councillor John Johnson's motion on domestic violence against women. It's a little bit unclear as to what we're actually voting on there. So my recollection is that we were voting the sender to characterise the consideration before it's been voted on by full council. And I just wanted to be able to just add a little extra line to say that it was before we voted on it. So that anybody reading that wouldn't think that those who voted against the motion, sorry, voted against referring it to character were actually voting against the sustained motion. Thank you. You wish. The addition of wording that it should then come back to the full council, is that what you're asking? Exactly. Is that actually what we agreed? I think all we agreed was to refer it to Cabinet. Cabinet could do what it liked with it. So I think as it stands, the wording is clear. But if anyone wishes to second that amendment, you're very welcome to. Full council. Not necessarily second. Well, before we have any discussion, we must have a second, please. Okay. I will second it for the discussion about what happens subsequently. No, we're not discussing what happens subsequently. We are only discussing whether at the time we specifically agreed it should come back to this council having been discussed by Cabinet. My recollection is that we did not. What I meant was that we were deciding not to vote on the motion ourselves after referred to Cabinet. That was my recollection. That is exactly what the wording says. The chairman moved that as the motion might have resource implications, it should be referred to Cabinet. Yes, but that doesn't say that we were choosing not to vote on it then. It just agrees to me that we were actually voting against the motion. Is that to remember? Do we have a second for the proposal that this wording is unclear? Council topic, thank you. I think we can simply take that to a vote. Those who would support the proposal that we amend this wording, please, bless the, we want discussion. Council. Very brief point, that if it applies to that motion, does it not apply to the other motions that were raised, and then referred on because of Senate Bill 13D? Does it apply to more than just this motion is my question? Thank you. Council topic. In second in this motion, I think the point that we're struggling to find, the wording that the office has for that position, which I agree with you, chair, is accurate reflection, but it leaves some of us a little uncomfortable. I think we have to approve these minutes or amend them. I suppose we could postpone that approval. I think that we're going to take legal advice, Rory. Chairman, I think in this occasion, the minutes to me are clear in terms of what they mean. I think the motion has been raised because they do not believe that if they are clear, I would suggest take a vote, but I wouldn't say that I would vote, but I think the minutes are very, very clear and I think the vote should be taken accordingly. I think it's difficult we've got here as officers. We need to go away from this meeting to be very clear what we've been asked to do. I think the discussion at the moment, I don't think in passing that motion that we're going to be clear what we're going to do with the minutes afterwards. Thank you, council. Thank you. Thank you. On an attempt to clarify things, I think it's the clarity to the public that's concerned. So perhaps if we could just put it in bold because then it is a separate motion opposed to just literally making the text bold that might keep everybody happy. I'm happy to propose that. That could be done to the other motions also, and then it's clear that what was voted on after the bold, as opposed to the motion itself. We now have two rival amendments, and I'm getting a bit confused, Rory. Tom will accept that amendment, right? So we have a proposal then that we have a proposal that at the moment for this motion only, we have the paragraph, the chairman moved that as the motion might have reports, specifications, et cetera, and down to upon being put to the vote of the person who has to ask for it. Councillor Ailes. Thank you, Chair. I'll bet you're on my policy for asking, but just a matter of clarification. In addition to the minutes, the five of us voted there, myself included, that she would be excluded from this vote. Could you advise, please? Thank you. Those who were absent from the meeting last time, should they not vote on it? Thank you. Since those five are not able to confirm the accuracy of the minutes, we'd be grateful if you would stay. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to say anything on that? Councillor Ailes. Just that I would request in the same way that I've addressed the meeting, and have the same wording. Is the wording the same on the others? It's identical, Councillor Ailes. Well, what I was trying to say was that the mover of the motion, Councillor Bygold, had accepted the proposed amendment from Councillor Williams, just simply to put the wording which clarified what the vote was, which was being taken in bold just to clarify the minutes, and if that's all in agreement, then should we just take a vote on that? That is what I said, and Councillor Hudson suggested that we should extend this to the other motions that were equally referred under Standing Order 13D. Do you wish to modify the amendment to that extent, Councillor Hudson? Councillor Hudson, Councillor Clayton, I think it's fine. Yes, please. I really need to wear my statement. You do. Councillor Bygold, you're happy with that. I'm happy with that, too. Thank you. So now we have a motion that, for all of these motions, where the wording is, the Chairman will move that. That should be involved. Can we now go to a vote vote? Can we do that by affirmation? Is everyone happy with that? Thank you. With that amendment we move on to page 9. Page 11. Page 12. Page 13. Page 14. Page 15. Page 16. Page 17. Page 18. Page 19. Page 20. General. Councillor Roberts. Thank you, Chairman. At page 20 and 21, there is wording about both my input into it and Councillor Hudson's input into that discussion. It seems to actually say how angry that discussion became. Well, never mind. However, the agitation that was made against me by Councillor Hudson, with very little knowledge at her back and call to actually claim such things, was there at the end of that meeting, sorted out by her coming back to the Council meeting and making a full apology to me. I would like to see, in fact, I request that that is also put in, that I have the apology. That is already in the minutes at item 16. So I do not think we need to make this change. Thank you very much. Good to remind everybody. What happened? Page 21. Order. Can you switch off your microphone, please, Councillor Roberts? Page 21. Page 22. Page 23. Page 24. Page 25. I hope there are no amendments there. Is everyone happy to accept these minutes as an accurate record with the amendments proposed and agreed as an accurate record of the meeting we had last time? Thank you. I am hopeful, incidentally, now that we are recording the meetings that the minutes might become a little less extensive in future. I have announcements, and I have a couple of announcements to make. Firstly, it is a relief and a pleasure in equal measure. No, I think it's a greater pleasure than a relief, but it is certainly a relief to welcome our new chief executive this once. We have been looking forward to you for a long time. We are very grateful to you for filling a huge gap. Thank you. Formerly, for taking over the role in the interim, and I would like to ask him to come and accept as a tiny token a written thanks from the council for what you have done. Mike. You have been asked to provide the communications team with details of any events in our parishes which could promote involvement in the development of the local plan. We are anxious to have as many people as possible in our communities involved in this plan, and so please can you tell forms of any events through which we might identify and advertise the fact that we want people to thank you. Our new chief executive who has had to hit the ground running this week and I know is going to be fabulous. I would also like to thank my staff who have had to step and have really helped keep this ship on track. So I am extremely grateful to all concerned. Thank you very much. This and colleagues, it's been an absolute pleasure and I've been really impressed with the kind of people that I've met. Obviously a huge thanks go to Mike and all of his colleagues for doing this early job. I feel like I've come into a good place and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you very much everyone. Item 6 on the agenda, questions from the public on page Roman 2. No questions from the public were received in time for consideration at this meeting. And item 7, similarly, no petitions have been received in time for consideration at this meeting. So we come to item 8, the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority whose reports are presented on pages 27 to 52 of your agenda. I invite the council to note the reports on the work of the combined authority in July 2019, as outlined in those papers, and ask the council's representative on the combined authority to comment if they wish to do so. Our representatives are Councillor Bridget Smith on the board, Councillors Gretel Chamberlain and Pymheilings on the overview and scrutiny committee and Councillor Tony Mason, who is on the audit and governance committee. I'm sorry that Councillors Chamberlain and Mason are not here, but Councillors, would you like to say anything? Thank you. So you've got the decision paper from the meeting before last. There was another meeting yesterday, which I'll tell you about. The two sort of significant things on the decision paper. One relates to the outline business case for CAM. The business case was costed at between £1 and £3 million, and originally the board agreed, I don't know how much it was now, it was under £1 million on the assumption that they would attract the rest of the money to take it up to £3 million from elsewhere, from private sources. Anyway, they've now decided that that's not the best course of action, and so we're asked at that meeting to approve the rest of the money to fund the outline business case for CAM in total. The other good thing they did was that they endorsed the vision for nature, which we also have endorsed. Now yesterday's meeting was a usual lively affair. Here's the paper, it's a nice little light reading if anybody fancies it. I think I was the only person who'd either read them or at least had officer help in reading them all. There was a long debate about the governance and the rewriting of the constitution. I was unhappy about this, it was absolutely covered in errors, and I thought that it was lacking in a lot of clarity. It's a legal document, despite my best endeavours they approved it. I did agree that they sort out some of the really glaring errors there. The quarterly performance monitoring report is two sides of a four document. They use ragnating for things, and in my view it's completely meaningless, and they are going to go away and look at a better means of reporting on performance. There was a bid in to the £100m affordable housing programme for five houses of one road melt, to refer that back to the housing committee. The housing committee is due to meet in two weeks' time. It last met October last year, so it's not a regular meeting, but I'll tell you later about the change of the government, how the board and their committees are going to function. They had some reservations about the project. It used to be the North Hearts housing company. They didn't want to talk about what the reservations are, but I've got them in the air to agree it's the principal subject to a few issues being clarified in two weeks' time at the housing committee. There was a debate about public transport to serve Alcunbury, you'll be aware that the combined authority officers are there, and quite a lot of the officers serving the county council are going to be moving to Alcunbury. The project to put a railway station there has been ditched. The cost of the railway station was going to be about 30 million, but the full track to serve it was going to be 190 million, and that money isn't forthcoming. So there's now a problem about how, not if the county council get to Alcunbury, but how our residents get there, if they need to engage with the county council. So councillor camp, the leader of the county council, spoke at length about the responsibility of GCP to deliver public transport to Alcunbury, which he claimed is falling off the GCP register, and he's going to be endeavouring to rekindle that, so we wait and see what happens there. Then there was a paper on the European Union Exit Capability Programme. Now the combined authority has been given quite a lot of money to support local businesses through Brexit or not Brexit or whatever it turns out to be. So they've put together some programme activities. I'm a bit concerned that we're also doing work here, so I did ask that this paper come to our Brexit advisory committee and that the officer responsible, which is John T Hill, but he comes to our Brexit advisory committee and talks about what the combined authority is going to do so that we can make sure that anything that we commit to is additional and not conflicting with what the combined authority is going to do. Thank you very much, leader. Councillor Haleyings, do you wish to add anything from the overview and social committee? No. Are there any questions, please? Thank you. I will take questions as they come and answer afterwards. Councillor Wright. Thank you, Chairman. Through you, I'd like to ask the leader. She said that the Great Cambridgeshire partnership should be contributing towards the link between Altonbury and Cambridge, which we know is served, partially served by the guided bus, as the leader said. Surely that is wrong because the Great Cambridgeshire partnership money should only be spent in South Cairns and Cambridge and money should not go outside those two cities and that district. Thank you. I'll take all the questions first and then the leader can answer. Can I stop you for the question? Thank you, Chairman. My understanding is that there was a meeting with Hope's England in the last couple of days at which my authority was represented, not least by Councillor Smith. I wonder if that could be used and she can elaborate in the more on that. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Hazel Smith. My question is in regard to the overview of the Scrutiny Committee minutes. They seem to have come up with a large number of very good questions to pose to the board and we don't seem to have the answers to all those questions. Where should we look at the answers to all those questions? It's all very well to show us the questions they've come up with, but we need the answers as well. Thank you. I'm Sir John Williams. Thank you, Chair. I'm Councillor Wright. He's absolutely right. In fact, I was going to point out that Altonbury is not in the Great Cambridgeshire partnership area. So, therefore, does the leader believe that this is an attempt by the combined authority to take over the Great Cambridgeshire partnership? Thank you. Are there any other questions? Leader. Thank you. Councillor Wright, I absolutely agree with you. The Great Cambridgeshire money, the GCP money is for us and the city. I was not saying that it should go to Altonbury. I was merely quoting what Councillor Coutts said. It was the first I'd heard of this, but he was very insistent and the meeting was filled, so I'm sure you can access what he actually said. He said that the original deal, and he claimed to have the original city deal in front of him, was committed to providing public transport to Altonbury. I haven't checked whether that was true or not, but absolutely, I'm not sure. So, I was merely quoting him. Councillor Topping. Yes. There was a very last-minute invitation on Wallstow, which is a really interesting building. It's an eco-friendly, modular, off-site construction that's been put in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by all these old barracks buildings. The staff loved it, partly because they were in Brooklyn's Avenue, so now they get to drive to the countryside to get there instead of sitting in traffic for many hours in Cambridge. The Minister Esther McFay had been invited up to cut the ribbon, which she duly did. I was there with my new chief executive on the very first day of her working, sorry, our chief executive. We were there representing South Cambridge and District Council. The combined authority was represented by the mayor. So, we were there for, you know, I guess at the glass forest school. She gave good speech. She was well-breathed. She understood about the housing challenges we were facing as she understood the relevance of the developments in South Cambridge and to ride at Oxtam arc. So, it was a jolly. It was an opportunity to meet people, connect with people. The leader of Hunts was there as well. It was nice that it kind of inspired that there's what seemed to know just about everybody in Wales, England, and they were very pleased to see her there. Oh, and yes, absolutely. I hope I answered your question that it's not South Cambridge. So, I trust that Councillor van der Waite will be making that point very forcefully when he's at the next board meeting at the GCP. Thank you, Councillor Haynes. May I ask you to comment on the scrutiny question, please? Sorry, Councillor Smith. So, the responses to the scrutiny and overview questions will be embedded in the minutes of the meeting. Oh, no. If it was the scrutiny's questions to the board, the answers to those questions will be embedded in the minutes, and we take the scrutiny questions within the agenda that they're related to. So, it's probably quite difficult to find the answers, actually. Thank you very much indeed. We note the reports and carry on. Item nine, the reports of the independent remuneration panel, is famous 53-74. This report is before you. The council is invited to consider the panel's recommendations, has set out an index A, and to agree a scheme, an allowance scheme for 2019-2020. I understand that Councillor Sollam is going to move a motion on this item. Councillor Sollam. Thank you. While we're reading this... Yes, Councillor Sollam. This is a very quick point of information. I've just looked up the original city deal document, and its references, transport terms, and to the open range enterprise zone. We have a chance to digest, at least in a preliminary fashion, the proposal that is to move people before us. Councillor Sollam. Thank you, Chair. Firstly, we're very much like to thank the IRP for their hard work this year. We did set them a bit of a challenge after last year, where we felt that we wanted to see more evidence behind their recommendations. And I think we do see this year that there is more evidence in support of their recommendations. And, broadly speaking, we would like to propose accepting of those recommendations. We have a couple of clarifications or subject to the laid out in point two of the motion. So the first is just the clarification on the deputy leaders, special responsibility allowance, and that is, in the wording of the report, that this is just the deputy leaders. That is just the clarity in how we put the deputy the statutory deputy leader. And then also, we felt that there was good evidence base. There seemed to be a little bit of a question mark on the round of work that is put in by the chair, the last chair of the scrutiny and overview committee. Particularly as last year, we changed to a model of pre scrutiny. And we don't see that that is reflected in the recommendations made by the panel. So just to request that they may go and take another look at that. Alongside that, there is a proposal for members of the planning committee to receive their own special allowance. Just to recognise that there is actually another planning committee that South Geffordshire is involved in the joint planning committee with the city. And so to also have a look at that and make a recommendation. But aside from that clarification and those requests to take another look at a couple of specific issues where I'm proposing that we accept the recommendations as needed by our people. Thank you very much. Do you have a second? Council's job actually, do you wish to speak now or at the end of the debate? Yes, I'm happy to second it because we are reserved by right to speak in here. Thank you. Thank you. And just for clarification, two, subsection two means that we're asking them to do some more work and that will be moved back to a subsequent meeting of this council. So at the moment we are accepting their recommendations as per item three and then asking for the issues under item two. Councilor Roberts. Thank you Chairman. I'm afraid I can't go along with this. We are in a situation where that's scrutiny committee recently when they question it the planning problems arose. One of the things that we were told was that we've got a problem because we're fighting against the private sector and what they can pay out to staff. Give yourself a rise here. We'll see the headline on the Cambridge England News as councillors give themselves a rise. People will actually particularly partake of seeing how much we are awarding ourselves if we do but they will see it as a rise. They will see it as a rise at a time when we are actually not providing good service. The planning committee is concerned and it is concerned the fact that the offices are demoralised. I understand that the offices have been told to, not told to us, not tell us things, secret squirrels are by and are found around here. So no, I'm sorry, I'm speaking. I accept that point of order but please not refer to the public offices the way that you have. Thank you Chairman but I would just say that I'm not talking about offices in particular or naming anybody. It's a well thought note that it's been in the Cambridge England News Council Roberts, it is not a well known fact and I ask you please not to make subject decisions. OK, I'll write to the Cambridge England News Institution. I would just say that here we go again thinking that we can give ourselves a rise and they're not enormous. I take it that they're not enormous. However, at a time when especially the opposition and its members of Parliament are telling us what dire stress the country is going to be in shortly, it's not the time to be giving ourselves any extra bonuses. It's a great privilege to be on this council. We're not on it to be taking larges from people who we say are going to be in financial difficulty shortly. I don't agree with that. However, that's the common theme from the Liberal Democrats in particular. So, I will not be voting for it. I'm sure it will get through because I'm sure all the Liberal Democrats will vote for it. However, I think you will actually do so at your peril because I think that the members of the public have very, very low opinions of politicians of whatever look they are at this moment in time. And I don't think taking their money is not the council's money. It's the public's money. And taking anything more from the purse of the public at times like this is actually, frankly, unacceptable. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm speaking purely on the motion of council to solve it forward. We may well have a wider debate which would give us the opportunity to explore some of the things that council Roberts has done quite rightly forward. But I'm speaking particularly on the motion that I can't help thinking of what the difference is because about a year ago, in fact, actually once precisely a year ago, council was on like a matter of days several other mill from the water reset assistant stood up and put a motion around in the way that he's done which was directly opposite to what he's saying today and said, you know, well, it's important that we set ourselves standards and that we recognise that the office is giving 2% and therefore his motion denied the opportunity to heartate and be bound to be formed here is sort of cherry picking. I mean, I personally have points where I disagree fundamentally with what the remuneration had. But I'm not going to talk for a motion saying we'll have a bit of this and a bit of that. That's the point they are independent whether we find their views or not. So I won't be voting for council's solid motion. And as I say, I don't know what's happened to it in the last year. I might need people to help to help. So I won't be voting. Thank you. Thank you. Council helps. Thank you, Chairman. I can't support this. I can't support this but one thing that's been recently made for people redundant. And I can't ever meet somebody who's made redundant from this fantastic organisation and say, yes, we've noticed we've now just increased our own settlements and our own services. So that is something I can't do in the street. I can't place them and look at them in the street and say, we really need redundant and now we're putting up our wages. We need people redundant because of the right reasons for the principle what we've always used and that's that we have to cut our costs and I can't then see me justifying taking back money and then having to say to somebody how is the job happening on it? Council owns. We're in a matter where Council holds remarks. We're not paid wages. We're paid allowances. In fact, that leads me to my other point which was to mention to Councillor Roberts that she's going to write us a paper and inform them of our message for allowances and the raises that we're awarding ourselves just to include the calculation of it on my own rates but however which was the ground figures one hand now. I think I can do better. We're not paid a wage as I was just pointing out, therefore that's what I would have accepted where I'm at. Can I remind members that they wish to produce a point of order that they should indicate which part of the constitution they are referring to. I don't want it to be used simply as a way of objecting to what other speakers say. Councillor Heather Williams. Focusing just on what's put in front of here there's so many elements and this is still uncomfortable and I'm sure we'll get on to more of that when we come to the actual substantive motion but the fact that my understanding is currently you can be able to see one special allowance and to increase that to two when in some cases that means we look at some of these special allowances of £5,000, the new ones and at this point of time I think the increases as a whole are unacceptable and therefore what's put in front of us by Councillor Solom is still not good enough and so I won't be voting for it. Thank you just to clarify the substantial motion before us is precisely what is on the sheet that was circulated a little while ago. Is amendment to the recommendation which is in Appendix A is precisely what is on the sheet that was circulated a little while ago. There is no amendment. This is the motion based on a report which was given to us which was not itself a motion produced by a member of this council. Is that clear? We have had that. This is an item of business and the point is normally that recommendations come from committees that have put forward to council. This is the report of an independent person which requires someone to move a motion that is acceptable in a manner which is done but it's not an amendment to be careful. This is the motion. I would like myself to clarify we have not had an amendment to this proposal, this motion which was produced by councillor Solom and I would like clarification if we reject this motion what happens to the approval of allowances for the coming year. There are two options. You can ask for a new motion or at the Steelers Court as to what has been made informed. Is that clear to everyone? Thank you chair. I think we are confused by this because you didn't put the lead of the opposition right in what he said earlier. So we thought we were debating amendment rather than a substantive motion. So that's where the doubt is coming and perhaps you could allow some leniency for us to take it as a the motion now. The lead of the opposition quite clearly said what he was doing and that wasn't correct at the time. So that has caused some confusion. Thank you. I was slightly surprised that senior members of this council were confused by a process which we have every year and not just for this item but a large number of items. If there is any more debate needed or if anyone wishes to propose an amendment yes I am prepared to accept that now but that does not seem to be the case. Can we go to the vote then please? It was a number of people I had not seen any hands Councillor Eddington. Thank you. My concern I have many concerns about this. One of them is the opportunity for people to have two remunerations for being on different committees which has never been the case in this council previously. When I was chairman I was also on the number of committees and was not allowed to take any extra. This results in the leader of the council being paid an additional £5,000 for being on the combined authority as well as other remunerations for other items. It is a way of not paying basic members of their basic remuneration increase but by paying everybody else for being chairman, vice chairman sub-tube members advisory members any other sort of member but not actually for just being a basic member. It makes it somewhat discriminative and I am very aware of the Liberal Democrat proposal when I was proposed as an additional cabinet member in May 2017 my colleagues were required to reduce their remunerations so that I could be paid a remuneration. It's funny how the world changes depending where you sit. It comes to the right you've already spoken of but I will allow you to speak again. That's very kind of you chairman and that's much appreciated. I am very unhappy with this proposal since 2007 because council has seen austerity particularly our staff and as councillors since that time we have matched the plain biases our staff had with our analysis and that seemed right, fair and proper and few of you will think back a year or two when the council did this there was outrage and quite rightly so in my view and I was reminded it time and time again every time I picked up a Liberal Democrat need for it before this last election every time one of your three points you pushed every time so could you allow your remarks to the chair please and not get into political debate? Sorry the chair So looking at this where are we we're going down the route that the council went down and through you chairman the public and members of the opposition won't forget that Thank you Thank you chairman and I just wanted to say really that my stance is exactly the same as it was last year and councillors' rises should be exactly the same as that of offices and staff and that's someone that worse in the public sector I know that often those rises are quite small but we should be seen to be replicating those rises not trying to push through rises through the back door in my view and on the screen in this way Thank you It comes with a click Thank you chair It's a really difficult question this because I'm going to go to days where a gentleman who can afford to represent their communities and don't need any allowances answer to represent supposedly represent the people in their constituencies then we have a self-selecting group of people coming forward to represent communities at the same time we have to acknowledge that people having the opportunity to represent themselves I recognise how hard the chair and vice chair has recognition for that however I work in a voluntary sector and so now I'm aware of how many unpaid carers people taking on unpaid responsibilities within our communities that are really really valuable and affects a lot of people's lives and they don't have any allowances they don't get any of that argument covered so it's a really difficult thing I'm not going to be able to support it today not because I don't I think that councillers as chairs and vice chairs don't warrant an allowance but it's just how does it look and how can we come up with a remuneration system that actually considers I mean people have to go through a means testing to get benefits and the rest of it so is there some way of remuneration to look at I mean there are people here who join the universal credit debate notion that I have them talking about that they're like a Tesla bloody car that they were all, excuse me Tesla car that they were all driven now if we've got people with that extremity of income maybe there's a case to say okay let's be honest about who is representing the community if they're big landlords who can afford to be here let's acknowledge that if they're single parents with kids who have care responsibilities let's acknowledge that let's make the remuneration actually reflect the people who sit in these chairs and hopefully then we might get a reflection of the people that we're representing out there and we might get different people feeling able to take a stand and get involved in politics and find themselves here talking in this way there has been no proposal for amendments so I propose we go to the vote Councillor Solom is about to come up with this can I speak Councillor Solom do you wish to speak first no Councillor Batch thank you very much I've only taken a bit long just with a couple of points here you're at all that in 2017 we reduced the number of councillors from 57 to 45 in the 2018 no account whatsoever was taken of this actual work that we have to take on and I might say in this very modest proposal before us we still don't take any significant note of the additional work that we are obliged to take on I would also emphasise the point that this actually provides a saving of some £60,000 a year on going which can be used for the benefit of the general we've also done our best with the special responsibility allowances to put that on a further footing with a review of the hours actually put in and analysis of that we've gone some way with that but it would have been a great help if the Conservative group had actually taken part as well so unfortunately they chose not to so there are various missing elements to that other than that I would say again that this is a modest proposal and it also fixes the situation for the couple of years so hopefully we don't have to go through all this but underlying it we shouldn't be put into this position allowances we shouldn't be in a position where we actually have to set our own allowances this ought to be a national policy and we should be have some direction should we ever get a decent government to show us what we ought to be getting I recommend this thank you thank you may I ask members in future please not to make political comments and not to refer to other political parties we will now go to the vote you have had a chance to speak already come to the topic I am not aware of any communication I believe the leaders of discussions which we have time to time inviting and concerning to take part in the exercise which counts on that thank you we will now go to the vote approve the motion which is before us which I remind you is what is written on the extra sheet that will circulate at the beginning of this debate on this item if you approve that you press the green button if you reject it you press the red button if you wish to abstain you press the other button as everybody voted 22 have approved 12 have objected and 4 have abstained we therefore approve the IRP's proposals with the modifications the amendments made on the sheet which was presented to us thank you we move to item 10 membership of committees and outside bodies this is outlined on page roman 2 of your agenda your attention is drawn to the changes in membership of committees as set out on page 2 you will see that there is a change in the composition of the cabinet which you are asked to note the council is also asked to note and endorse changes in membership of committees as set out a paragraph 10b of your agenda however I believe that there are two further changes not noted in the proposals there mainly that councillor Nigel Cathcart is replacing councillor Gavin Clayton on the scrutiny and overview committee and councillor Dr Clare Dornton is replacing councillor Sarah Johnston as a substitute member of the Cambridge Fringe's joint development control committee do group leaders wish to notify councillor any other changes of membership of committees you might, I hope you're aware that the combined authority has had three committees for some time now one thing I should have mentioned earlier when I was talking about the combined authority is that these committees are going to change currently there are I think committees from the board on each of the skills transport and housing committee these are going to change as part of the constitutional review yesterday which means that there will be representation from all part of councils on each of those committees and those committees are now instead of just being from sanding boards are now going to have delegated decision making and delegated spend to them so some decisions will be made at committee level and others will be made at board level so that therefore means that we have a place on the housing of the transport and the skills committee so currently I am the person and as it says in my gift who sits on those and if I choose to I can have all three of them but I'm choosing not to so I will have the housing skills committee and councillor Hazel Smith will suckle my son councillor in Bantamwyr will be on the transport committee and councillor Neil Goff will be his son and as currently is the case councillor Eilil Wilson will be on the skills committee and councillor Neil Goff will be herself as well. Thank you councillor Togming, do you have anything to say? I take it that the Liberal Democrats at the Labour Party has no further changes to report to the people. Are there any changes in membership of outside bodies that we note those changes then and endorse them? We come now then to questions from councillors which are on pages 3-4 Roman 3-4 of your agenda. You are reminded that there is a period of 30 minutes for these questions this includes those questions where notice has been provided and on the agenda and if there is still time notices, sorry questions which have been put into the box prize the start of this item whether any so it is just questions before us. Question number one comes from councillor Eililil, councillor Eililil would you pose your question please? Thank you, that is on your favour. Thank you. councillor Eililil for your question. There is no specific one making section 1-6 with as far as understanding to seek here on the commission for tenices in favour just in favour and actually if I can quote you to be scheduled in 11 which defines favour voluntary groups as any voluntary or community group which this council or the town council sees as relevant has approved to use the amigated land now it is still possible to land 0.25 acres sectors sorry and very little funds to build anything on it but now understanding now it would be difficult to get up for a specific faith so what is going on now is that the committee's team is currently in discussions with various faith groups that have an interest in not so and the idea would be to come up with a strategy that would work for them including looking at the possibility of other community spaces coming on to other phases I can't give you a date as to when that will be finished but what I can promise is that when there is something to tell you I will tell you Thank you Constable do you have a supplementary question? Thank you I'd just like to quote from a letter I that has been sent to me but to us as a council from the reverend Dr Bay Coff who is actually sitting in our gallery she is the Parliament's stuff of north stone and she makes various points and I'm really delighted to see that on Tuesday of this week an action was taken to start that conversation that you're describing and those groups with an interest in this land can find a workable way forward but she also raises a number of really important points which I think the council as a whole would find useful in their heads to optimise community development and cohesion residents of all faiths and none need to be able to exercise their freedom of expression to worship and study according to their distinct cultural heritage that such freedom helps build trust and allows open respectful multi faith dialogue both groups are already demonstrating they can work well together for the world of the wider community but worshiping in the same physical space poses never practical challenges for example different religions have very different attitudes to alcohol that would abstain while many Christian denominations should whine in their central community communion services food some religions require vegetarianism or how they'll meet or worship as mixed genders worshiping as mixed genders worshiping me out worshiping of faith is not something limited to a few hours in one week, day or week where there are needs for daily acts of worship timetable in shared worship of faith becomes a challenge with the festival calendars of many religions being based on the seasons several times a year will see conflicting needs in terms of festivities for some but not all people of faith their worship space is an area set aside for encounter with their God it would be disrespectful to enforce the worship of such gods in that space freedom of expression should allow worship with suitable religious symbols around them many people turn to religious buildings in times of crisis brief joy and celebration marking weddings, births and funerals helping to put down roots in a town and a community developing stability we need to make sure these provisions are appropriate and aligned with different cultural requirements e.g. distinctly Hindu or Christian as well as civic weddings Counselington I think this is an important letter but these issues are all well known I am grateful if you come to your question please Right, yes I will say that I will be very happy to circulate that letter if anyone would like it My question is can you be absolutely sure that my colleague Shabona and her Hindu faith will be included in your discussion A personal faith myself so I understand the points that have been made and part of the discussion will hopefully be with groups that are similar to those of Counselor Brattacharia I don't know who is in within this discussion that is going on but I am happy to sit with the officers and make sure that we look at the place that I will be in the area and if people like yourself want to participate then I am sure that can be helpful as well Thank you very much Counselington Thank you chair Counselor Brattacharia Your question is actually referring to the actual planning application fees not evaluation fees and if that is the case then I will just say this Counselor receives 80% of its applications online and there is a count of it that enables people to calculate what is the right amount of fees to pay and they have to soften this at the same time as the application otherwise it is in register The other sort of application is called Caledon Perl but the technical software team are the ones doing the application and they check the application solution the right fee is paid Now you will be aware that we just brought together two teams from Google and Canberra and they recently carried out a technical workshop and they are looking at the whole right validation process and that process includes a supervisory rule in making sure that the right fees are paid So I don't know that anything has missed or people have not paid the right fee but what I mean is if the right fee hasn't been paid the application hasn't moved forward it has to be the right fee Now it may be that you have done some investigations and that has turned off something obviously I will be happy to hear what that has so basically I hope it is the right figure not the one because that will fit in the last article in the big person market I do have a supplementary My question was around because the brief notice that we have been giving about TerraFest was that validation would be happening by TerraFest not on offices so it was seeking clarification that somebody in the council would be supervising that there is no reference made and was the leading planning member confident that the mechanism is the real place that we would not use money Good to hear that she feels confident that it is all there that wasn't what was being asked it was going forward Thank you So this is what you actually really meant I would like to share in that the several points of order I need to know the what part of the constitution which you are referring to 11.7a, the direct oral answer the insinuation of my cell phone that in the news piece is not a direct answer to the context of this question If the question was misunderstood I apologise if it will now be answered Thank you chair My first statement was what the question was about was it not TerraFest actually wrong planning portal so we are currently in discussions with them as to how the process will work they are good at what they do but the processes that we are going to put it in place will have supervision by our side that is what this was because that is the only way we can know whether or not what you put in place is working so I can assure you that we will be supervising that work we have to measure it, set a baseline and measure it so that we can see that it is working If there is anything else I would like to take it outside of this Thank you Councillor Howard Howard Chairman Thank you councillor Can we have a little lesson body language please I have to say to councillor Howard I believe it is an operational question It is an operational issue but I will answer the best I can and if that is still sufficient I suggest we take this outside of this The shared service shared time service is moving to a new work process we currently invested we will be investing about 200,000 pounds in the new ICT system to help us process applications more efficiently Now part of the assessment that was made and benchmarking with other services shows that I am guessing why the letter was sent You either want to hear it or you don't May I suggest you limit yourself to the question of the bridge which is are you satisfied Satisfied with the letter HM I'll plan a service when the right process and the same process that was undergone for the shared waste service councillor Howard Do you have a supplementary question? Surprisingly I do chairman Chairman I have been approached when somebody who received one of these one of the final boxes they found the letter to be in their opinion curt, unsensitive and appreciative This is quite troubling chairman and the reason that it is troubling is this particular observer who has been here for a number of years is now deciding that they have had enough and this is the final straw It wasn't so much the content of the letter and what the letter actually said it was the fact that they didn't feel appreciated Chairman I'll just give you I don't think we can discuss individual cases and it has already been suggested this is an operational matter Do you want to take it outside this meeting? Chairman all I'm asking is all staff not to say about any particular I can be careful of staff as I said your Lord Chairman our staff and most valuable asset I think this is a wonderful place to work for Chairman I believe we're not helping matters at the moment Thank you If I hadn't allowed to finish the statement I was making earlier on you would have heard that we appreciate the service that those members of staff have rendered There is a reason for the contract that they were given and it's a fixed term contract They're helping us to move forward into the new planning system I'm happy to discuss with you outside I'm not going to go any further with this in here but we appreciate them I'm sorry for those who say we can't stay there are those who are staying but we have to move forward Thank you Thank you We understand that that has created issues in the past especially in the way or whether we have thinking workloads Obviously the reason we're bringing together the two services is to fill resilience in the service So going forward we hope to have a dedicated How can we expect to win the planning appeal and therefore avoid designation if the council does not put in resources The way in which we run appeals was changed on the previous administration We used to have a dedicated planning officer not a support user and that was changed so we haven't had a dedicated planning officer to appeal for a long time The officer that has been responsible for that particular case sits in to win the barista on the appeal and does the work together with the technical support appeals officer So we put in the resources that we need to to win appeals We've just sat through four weeks of the academic tech appeal and we've been able to attend just one of those to see just how brilliantly arty worked and it was like that provided to the inspector So I haven't doubt whatsoever that we are capable of defending appeals and we will put in the resources that we need to put in Thank you Absolutely One thing first I have a phrase reduction in numbers There are six members of the enforcement team as we speak Only one of them is leaving and that will be at the end of October We have a vacancy which is a new vacancy in the new joint service which is for the leader team leader of the enforcement services I'm sorry that that person is leaving and I wish him well for the future But I am confident that going forward we will continue to do both things is what you are thinking and force planning conditions As you will know that I'm aware I've chaired a meeting on the 20th of August about enforcement issues in North and having written to the email of the developers on the weekend before the meeting and we all turned up so I had a full house The meeting was with us officers, local members and the developers and we ironed out the issues We had a full house meeting in the weeks time So, as far as North is concerned I cannot assure you that we will continue to robusten force planning conditions for the positions that are coming Very much regret that the lead member has taken it down to an individual and that wasn't my intention I was talking about the enforcement team We have an outstanding enforcement team in this authority For many years since I've been a councillor particularly earlier ones they were putting their lives off as they did We perhaps will remember that in some of the other councillors who have been here all the time They are to be cherished and supported and it's that lack of support that this administration has given them Chairman that concerns me and there are plenty of examples of that throughout this process of putting the two services together Comments were made in the consultation that were not going down and I regret that that has resulted in really low morale on the team My supplementary question to the lead member is that with the mileage allowance that has been cut and how are the people getting this when there's a three week waiting list for the zip car that this council works Thank you for that Can I just say first of all that because the administration decided to go to a joint service we went up and sorted out as far as I can remember it was just one of us I'm standing We have tried our best to put together these two services The Prime Director and the Nature Director have followed to guide us and goes and say to the net as for the management team the operational side of things obviously I need to give to them we haven't cut as far as I know we haven't cut minded there has been a misunderstanding to be now again without referring to specific operational issues the issue of mileage is the same thing that was approved by the council with the unions for the shared waste of gas so what HR have done is applied the same principle to the new joint service now obviously you have this understanding of things and as far as I understand the clarification will be given to them within the next week as of this afternoon now as far as zip cars go of cars there is one but then who wants to improve the service to just finish the merging let us get a fit on the table and make sure that we understand what the requirements are what they need and they can move forward to provide them with those tools and if I may chair them I did offer council a right a monthly meeting to update him on what's happening with the service he refused I emailed him on September to ask him to let me know when is the time for him to meet but he's still not heard from him the invitation is still open thank you chair a quick word please under item item 1147 the constitution the constitution you said that this was arranged by the last administration but that is not true the principles were there but you didn't listen to my question in which when we handed over to you the consultation was out so the decisions that were taken on the consultation were taken in your time and they were not assorted so this is not true the reason I have not accepted your kind offer is because the last briefing I had I had a list of questions none of which you were answered and I've had to get the answers from officers and you can look through minutes of this council questions of answering asking this room that you have not answered thank you sorry chairman but am I allowed to come back on that there is a question from council I can indeed absolutely you don't have to contact the company nobody has to contact the therapist all you have to do is submit your friend application in the same way it will be allocated to a case of yourself who is in the movie or on the papers in the case trials and the process really is transparent to everybody do you have a supplementary question how much extra money I'm sorry I can't hear you can you speak how much extra money the outsourcing people are earning than our own officers how much extra money is going to the therapist how much extra money the outsourcing people are earning than our own officers that's what I said how much is costing thank you I can find a figure for you I don't have a figure we have a contract am I allowed to ask the director no we can't provide an answer that's useful I'm going to change this so my question is to the leader the leader has asked many things to answer this question on the basis of the criteria that we adopted 3 years ago for assessing the important power prior to the month of the procedure yield GCP that's on sites of 10 or more mainly in critical sites there were 172 affordable homes to be delivered in between there now in 2021 and for that target it was at 1 hour so that's and obviously now we're able to have a bug in that and that's why we can get on with some of that figure so I'm very confident that by GCP we will have reached the target and could be a supplementary Yes chair for reason for asking this question is because at the most recent GCP assembly papers provided by the GCP indicated that they did no firm indication as to when these houses might be built but an offer that they might be built to some time before 2030 and I recall that in 2016 Councillor Bridges the current leader of this council then the opposition leader was so worried and concerned about this matter that she wrote letters to the GCP and I just wondered whether that concern had head given her other responsibilities I don't want to speak to her to speak on what that is but I'm sure she may say well I also ask the supplementary so I'm sure that I can certainly finish this because it is actually vital that we provide affordable housing and I am confident that we will do the GCP support process and we can't be certain when those houses will be built because they have been in touch and we are not in control of the development You move now to the item 12 Stage 4 and 5 Row 4 of your agenda You are reminded that there is a maximum period of 30 minutes for each motion so I hope we don't need that much that the expiring of the 30 minute period debate will cease immediately a mover of the original motion or the mover of the primary amendment now forming the substantive motion will have the right of reply before it is to come to the vote If you wish to move an amendment to the motion please will you write it down and bring it to officers before you speak We begin with a motion from councillor Heather Williams councillor Williams Will you please move your motion now? Thank you Just a couple of points on the motion that I made the second time of it coming here and work has been done to reword it Work has been done to make sure that this is not critical of anything currently happening It is looking for cross-party support whether I'll go sit or not because it's a different matter I know but the idea is that having more youth engagement is a responsibility of every member regardless of what party or norm party chair that they sit on and I thought it would be a good idea without precisely understanding some of that play of the prison that we actually put that focus on and the task of the finished group is a finite thing that has an end in sight it's also that will create an automatic paper you should just look at some different ways perhaps to encourage more youth involvement in local politics because with the best will in the world councillor Henry bachelor councillor Caren and myself cannot be the younger one forever as much as I might like it Thank you Thank you Do you have a second? Thank you councillor Catharff Do you wish to speak now? Yes, I'm happy to second this I think most of the young people are numerically of a large group of people I'm also alienated that's the other issue They are separate from of society, separate from their family sometimes separate from the main organs of society Yes, there is such a big society despite I've seen a member leader of Conservative party many years ago and we need to actually engage with them we need to make sure that they're actually brought into the debate in order to in order to understand the decision making process but in order to to break home to them the fact that the decision making process is difficult, compromise and requires lots of factors to be brought into account so it's a way of instilling a certain sense of responsibility and majority and actually engaging with them on many different levels so often young people actually just look at frankly what's in personally or in their immediate group and we need to use this as an opportunity to actually engage with them as I say on those different levels so I think this to be welcomed young people are highly variable actually in their temperament in their sense of responsibility and in the way and their commitment and the way they engage with society so at stress at the point of repetition we should use this as an opportunity to actually engage with them and to develop that sense of responsibility and of obligations to society because so often young people think that things come easily that money is there for the asking and that things happen without any great difficulty but the fact is it is not and if we engage with them we can bring them into the world and make the next thinking Thank you, House of Bridges Thank you very much so Castlecraft part is absolutely right that young people are invariably alienated from politics and local politics and national politics and we should be considering them as a hard to reach group as we consider many other groups such as the disabled people with mental health issues as a hard to reach group so it's very important that we are engaging with them I'm not going to sport this because actually it's the wrong motion at the wrong time I'm not doing youth engagement it is business as usual that wasn't always the case when not many years ago council millions before you were here I was made the member champion for children and young people and vulnerable adults actually by the previous administration unfortunately that was taken away with me we're going to the reasons why there was also a youth council at that time Johnnie Council Ellington had responsibility for which was a jollygood piece of work and unfortunately it was allowed to decline however since then youth engagement absolutely is business as usual youth engagement is planned as part of the issues and options consultation regular engagement with children and young people as part of the development of the new communities happens routinely and I gather we insisted that young people and their parents were included in the north stone play consultation with phase one and phase two including engagement with long stands and youth council and we will continue to engage with young people through the development process for all the community facilities for north stone which we now find ourselves responsible for the community transport business plan which is about developing a business case in the northern villages will include young people because of course the public transport the main users are the young and the not so young you know it's very very important to tailor to their needs we're looking at to see how we can better engage young people in regular growth area forums and we host networking and information meetings for youth organisations whenever we are asked and try the train days run by Melgruth and Shetford community rail partnership as well as other activities have engaged numerous young people conducted involved 18 year olds and above and I know that many of our parishes who are involved in the neighbourhood plans put young people at the centre of those plans because they are all about their futures in this room who don't value the importance of our so I was a combatant at the invitation day on the day many other young people were striking they invited me in so they could tell me what we're doing to help save their planet Llywodraeth, can you wind up your remarks please? I've also run a carers group which involves children for the last 20 years Council is dead down the field has been involved in the politics project with Sauston Villiers College and talking to scouts about democracy and she's been into Igneal Primary to talk about plastic reduction Council of Wellsons has been supporting young people dealing with travel to school problems Council of Henry Bachelor has been talking to his local primary school Council of Harvey took part in the climate strike with a group of young people Council of Dawson is a governor of Great Wilbur and Primary and very engaged with young people and I could go on and on and on I doubt there are many of us in this room who are not who are not engaged with young people so there is a responsibility for this council to engage which we are doing and we have a responsibility of members what I would be more interested rather than a task and finish group which will only serve to reinvent the wheel of what we're already doing is perhaps a review piece of work whilst the medium term financial plan is in place and the priorities are all being delivered a review in some months time to make sure and check that we are being successful in the work we are doing with young people I think that's far more productive than something which is starting from a baseline when actually we are already doing a tremendous a lot but continue to be very ambitious to do even more Thank you and I hope all those councillors whose names were mentioned will not feel that they now need to speak to this debate Councillor Van der Weer I just wanted to make the observation that as far as I know we are planning to build 70,000 homes in our area and under the local timescales is 19,500 in the left of hand plus the right of hand and so we are in for 70,000 homes or 40,000 homes South Calf is a great area with 70,000 homes if our right of hand is amendment given that there is a possibility that it is much much faster to reduce that to 19,500 Do you have a second? Thank you leader Do you wish to speak now? No, it's a statement of fact Thank you It's time that was meant to be to do with constituents residents as opposed to homes with a new future local plan current local plan So you accept that amendment? Thank you The motion is amended and stated Councillor Ellington Thank you I put my name down to speak before Councillor Richmond mentioned it so I think I'm entitled I did indeed set up the Youth Council with Council Topping some years ago and it was good in parts and it had a really interesting group of young people and they did get involved and I felt that it was is something that we ought to be looking at Personally it wasn't so good because the chairman got so involved he's reading politics at Cambridge University and still gets me as a late actor I'm going to build I want to generally the proposal in terms of engagement but the two teenagers have daily engagement and what's fascinating is how much they are engaged with politics right now but we can't create a cause from top down we can't get them to do what they're not inclined to do I don't think there is lack of information it needs a catalyst like Gretar Cymru to come along to activate some of that demand and it comes much better from that group so whatever we can do as a catalyst to improve that engagement with the young we don't have politics in the service it's crazy I talk to people on the street and somebody in the council that says I'm not interested in politics and I'm standing for election as an initially councillor who are providing your accommodation on the talk so this engagement that we have can be worked on I'm not sure that you go with this motion but I'll definitely go up with the principle behind in on increasing engagement so thank you for bringing it so at least we've been having this discussion today thank you thank you chair most of what I was going to say has been covered by Councillor Cathar I just like to say that I support the motion I think this motion is to set up a task and finish group which will consider the best options for delivering more youth engagement and that has to be a positive thing thank you thank you chair a couple of the points that I was going to mention have already been covered in terms of the extension of that I think that when you see Greg somebody will think of it as someone else she's a leader she's a leader and she shines in comparison to some of those that were parading here then this week the phrase hard to reach I have a real problem I think hard to reach is a misnomer I think it's a failure of having a ghost or a charity we talk about hard to reach people they're only hard to reach and I think it's incumbent on us to do that I think there is there are examples maybe not of politics in curriculum but at Campbell for my own son's time at Campbell they ran a very successful political education course which could have linked I think it was passed like that I had conversations about that also about the video relaying of these these things but we did run more quickly than people it depends if you speak so I think there are opportunities to push the hard to reach phrase aside and just as somebody who's living raised two children in Campbell I have to say this comes across as a political point where they're playing on both their houses in terms of sad camps for youth provision over the last 20 years there still is no need to set a camp and for a new development like that that's just the way it is Thank you councillor Tollby Thank you chair I guess my only remarks will be what is the mischief what is the problem that this motion has intended to remedy and if you can give me a very long time ago I did some work with the chapter of Tim Peck Jones now some of you may know him because he's a little bit different from that here so he's also bringing up the disability which I think is a prerequisite for him also so one of the things that Tim did for a long time ago as a company so called to be a large retail company was to back a charity called the citizenship foundation citizenship foundation was an amazing point on today but the curriculum has very little it that explains to and encourages young people in terms of their responsibilities duties and citizens and some of the debate that we are having in other places yesterday may be a consequence of some of that lack of understanding of what it means to be a politician councillor leader or whatever and what it seems to me this recommendation is trying to do is to say South Cambridge sure is an aspirational councillor you know there was a youth forum it was jolly hard work as councillor I mean to say but it also had people on it who were called princess and she wasn't a princess you know she had aspirations to be a princess and I support them of heart and so it seems to me that there is a level of and I'm sorry to use this word about councillor Smith because I didn't believe that she was going to go down this path Can you keep your remarks addressed to the notion before us at least I believe that the litany or engagement that has been read out by the leader of the council is worthwhile but that does not address the aspiration of what this motion intends to do so I shall be voting Thank you councillor Roberts Thank you chairman I don't want to be in danger for the industry because I know other questions can be got through I would just say that actually I think in reality there are very few young people who have got a real interest in politics you know something that's a real call thing to them that they're interested in from an early age it's fine to be enough still for a young people who I would have loved to who that was ever brave enough but in reality there are only a certain amount of children teenagers who really want to understand politics however we're not even giving them the opportunity I was looking I started school at 15 I joined a trade union at 15 I joined a Labour Party at 17 I was a secretary of a local ward Labour Party at 18 I went to actually power time I went to political discussions we used to have a lot of those when I was a teenager and in my early 20s where you could go and see your other politicians you could heckle them to their high evidence but you could also listen and get information now there's far a few of that now I'm sorry I don't get this better business you know she's hated it she will be forgotten tomorrow because but we are going to be serious if you if you're liberals you're terribly liberal can you address your amongst the chair and can you address them to the motion please my my impression to the motion chair is that if we're going to have these sort of values which the authority now has in place then it is up to us to go out there you won't get a lot of young people coming here why the hell should they but we need we need to go out maybe have debating discussions at colleges it seems like that because all the different parties and not can go and we can actually have a debate with students but you're closing the door to that even happening it's saying we're doing great things already we're trying things and they haven't worked and so therefore we'll do no more at this stage are they always being asked this how to test and finish good and see if there are new ideas that can come forward and if they might you might decide to test and finish but we're actually we're not going to get anywhere here it's not going to be interesting enough to use this but you're not even giving them the opportunity you know let's give those children for me in time because they've got a core interest in politics some indication of what it's all about their different chances and choices that they can make but you're not going to go ahead by saying no to a simple test and finish group thank you thank you first of all thank you councillor Smith giving so many examples for the councillors those who are working with the youth I will be very happy if councillor Smith remembers if councillor Smith remembers my name as well because I'm also working 400 plus children and I'm teaching them teaching them the robotics that you can actually see them from 6pm to 8pm council building outside they are making their robots there but now the question is that I'm supporting this motion because a question raised the children are not coming to the politics so can I please ask this council to run a more full council meeting engaging the A level student engaging the A level student of our district and to run a more full council Are you proposing an amendment to the motion? No I'm just I'm just supporting that there's a proposal and if time to time we can take these children to the I mean we can take these children to the parliament too so instead of expecting politics we can actually I want to give an example of how within planning we actually already are engaging with young people I recently attended the day out in Covenham Primary School talking to the kids about planning because there's a site there that's going to be built out and we were actually designing a small community on the site and it's an engagement that they might have to do and I was quite surprised at some of the questions that we were asking, we talked a bit about politics about the local councillers about how we can get engaged it might be now we can find new planners at that point I've even made a political plan which is in my village again they've been designed for one of the small community areas coming down and I found that they wanted to know we took it to them perhaps that's probably a way in which we can engage more and it doesn't have to be a formal thing just as part of the process of doing things yeah just as an example Thank you for that John Williams your comments your contribution has already been noted do you wish to ask it and to contribute any more than that by the leader yes my name was mentioned okay okay very strange anyway I have some experience because when I was a teenager I was a member of the woodydew accounts I was marching from the school against the Vietnam War and against the 72nd street to traffic the reason why I did those things was I was panicked until now they were not interested to change things and until we get young people interested in wanting to change things we would not engage them no one wants to come along to a boring council meeting talking about issues that are not relevant to them which is what happens most of the time in this council chamber and to set up a task and finish group councillors deciding what the youth group wants to have in this district is not the way to engage politics you need to go out there and engage them in the things that are going to affect them things like congestion of this planet and I find it that those very people going for a task and finish group to engage the youth are the very people who have been criticising our young people for marching to save this planet so councillors do decide what the youth wants we know what the youth wants go out and speak to them and they will tell you what they want this council to do they don't want to get involved in the machinations of this council they want us to take action they want us to take action against climate change they want us to take action against the reduction in our services to improve their education to make the world more equal that's what you want us to set up another meeting councillors councillors councillors they catch up they do want to come in here and they came the climate change environment committee and they think an eco youth panel asked to come they came six minutes to do in terms of the impact of a one minute presentation each they wanted to come about the issues that they're passionate about they want to be involved two weeks later they went to their parish council which had failed the month before to try and declare a climate emergency amongst the older councillors they went there took it by storm and the parish council has now declared a climate emergency they are now meeting with the next village to make sure their parish council this is happening and it's happening through planning it's happening through placemaking it's happening to our green agenda we are energising and showing the youth that there is a reason to come here and that we can do things together and they are shaking and rattling their neighbours at us it is happening they are interested, they are here and they are waiting to see what action we take having come here I go this Saturday and I will present to them what we have done since they came and talked to us they have asked me to come and be accountable to them since they came to visit us they are political and do you know how old these are? they are ten years old what Councillor Haley says that these young people is admirable they actually want to come and engage with our meetings so we don't need to set up a separate youth council to plan it separately we need to involve them in our meetings on a regular basis yes, go out and involve them in consultation but yes, invite them to our meetings because if what you are saying is so and I am sure it is an effort to come along to our meetings I have to make sure we make it possible for them to come in terms of timing as far as timing is concerned we are needing help so I am now getting to ask Councillor Williams to sum up the papers thank you Chairman the words in this is greater involvement as I said when I moved the motion there is no criticism here of what is currently happening it is about perhaps seeing what is happening and capitalising to take it forward even more it is not by any way looking forward not backwards and do you know what many of the suggestions that have been made are good and valid suggestions that through groups such as this we can channel them it is making them a reality it is a mechanism to bring them forward and that is all work that is being asked for here is that going forward and capitalising on that rare moment at the moment where people are more engaged now it is time to do it more than ever Kenny and just on the remarks about children and martyrs while I respect Councillor Roberts that does not necessarily mean the same for all of us as Councillor John Williams the issue of leaving the school I think is an individual issue for many of us but the actual demonstration of the engagement that they want to have is admirable and it is welcome and should be by all of us and this was seeking to build upon that thank you we will now go to the third if you support this motion you will press the green button if you oppose it you will press the red button if you wish to stay you will press the yellow button if you oppose it in favour of this motion 24 opposed it against this motion so the motion agrees we do not see that there was a need for half an hour to handle this particular item please can I ask you to keep your contributions as brief as you possibly can we come to 12B standing in the name of Councillor Graham Coe Councillor Coe would you prefer the virtual version thanks very much chairman as on the auto plane the motion I would just like to add that the reason I have the council support this motion is it will allow not only us as district councils but parish councils and our residents to have realistic explanations for delivering pressures and workload that the party is facing at any given point in time thanks very much thank you do you have a second Councillor Williams do you wish to speak now or again in a bit I will speak now please chairman I would just like to say my reasons for seconding is that a lot of us as local councillors see the tug-of-war that sometimes feels like it is going on where we are trying to help support our residents but also appreciating the situation that the council finds itself in relation to planning and everything that surrounds that and the very launch is that I receive a lot of emails and correspondence chasing where things are out in a process and all these sorts of things and I can't imagine what it's like for officers and really this is a suggestion to help alleviate that pressure to help manage expectations of residents which they are what counts in everything that we do and also I would hope to support officers in relieving that pressure of being chased quite often as if they do as much as I do you know then there's improvements we have and this might help that's all it's got down to do councillors thank you chair to paraphrase the world information can be a dangerous thing but a lot of product management will be in a different sector where their KPIs like this exposure will cause a lot of confusion and be misinterprety I don't believe this is the right way to expose this sort of information what will be much more useful is for members to get insights into the planning system and I understand that you are always going to achieve this and that's the way you should come to improve the system new councillor dr thank you chair I cannot support this motion whilst I understand I think we already actually published a set of KPIs in the quarterly report that those two cabinet are scrutiny and we also monitor the KPIs that the Ministry of Housing and Communities and Government actually measures performance and that is actually published on the golfer nuclear website there's an annual statement so that is already out there what this will do is just add more to the burden of work that our planners already have now if I can just say this we already have agreed that scrutiny will look at the planning service at some point in time in the next couple of months I think and so yeah exactly and we are happy to come to that meeting we are welcome to come and attend and actually ask your questions there and the fact that we are also going through the transition period is that we need to learn this cycle once we have our signal processing in place then we can look at what are the statistics that we can provide to help people understand where this is this isn't going to help at all but what you need to do is let the planning service go in what is best at which is planning thank you I am very keen but one of the things that doesn't appear to be recorded is the amount of time between an application being received in this building and the time that a planning officer looks at it i.e. the validation time a number of people have raised concerns with me that they put in an application but they are still pending being validated and sent to a planning officer and that can be 8, 10 weeks that can add an enormous amount of time to the overall application process and people need to know that they need to know when it's likely to happen at the end of the day and if you're a builder and you've got your brakes you need to know so I would ask that that particular piece of information is very clearly recorded thank you thank you it seems to me that the barriers are going up it seems to me that this is a council that's imposing a decree of public night you know, we're asking for some basic information and it's information which all councillers believe could be able to use to clarify matters with the parish councils and sometimes the parish council say because everyone knows we've been talking wrong and actually being able to say because here's the data would be enormously helpful as councillors said at the beginning but I mean I've done some projects and I can tell you in a way that you get improvement is you get the data on the table and you're able to drill into it and the more people that can get into that data are the better if you vote against this you are frit councillor I have frit seems to have become most popular work when the public factor is in Parliament although it is again which I've employed from north so I order I hope I don't misrepresent you when I cite you when you've asked in committees that are exclusively for standard deviations part of the problem that we have with issuing more data is that it's exactly that we've been misinterpreted and what we need is proper information and actually setting expectations of how quickly the funding service can be effective to respond perfectly reasonable I think so as we go forward with this new system that's exactly what we should give people but when we hear complaints of the terrified party doing the triaging that you just asked for sorry which is it if you want us to get on and actually improve the situation in front of the users so I think we need to act sensibly about this and improve in front of this how is that, continue to improve getting into the new system automatic for information rather than manually producing data that can be easily misinterpreted so that's my position Thank you Councillor Donald Thank you chair I just wanted to make a few points with regard to this motion which I'll be voting against and like to explain why first of all Councillor Cairn I don't recall but he can correct me afterwards if I'm wrong he had a really raising in the scrutiny committee questions about the KPIs that we looked at and I'm not saying that the scrutiny examination of the funding KPIs can always be improved but it's excellent and Councillor Chamberlain who chairs that committee does a really good job so I'm very surprised brought it up here and personally take the KPIs that are out of the scrutiny meeting put it in my parish council report and it's discussed every quarter with my parish council and Councillor Topping knows that because he's been at some of those meetings so whether barriers or lack of transparency whether barriers Councillor Topping or lack of transparency I really don't know where that comes from and finally after remind Councillor Topping that at the last meeting we were having a discussion where a press that we will come on to he asked the chairman to stop the discussion he officially had plans to go to and the chairman quite rightly said this is an informed issue of the need to debate I'm a matter of personal information which meeting are you talking about Councillor Topping that's my scrutiny committee I do not recall but it's a cheap job so do you go in? Thank you chairman Thank you Councillor O'Reichon Thank you chairman I'm supporting this and I've chosen to say because the leader the leader of the opposition has already made some of my opinions but I just want to go back to the KPIs that go to scrutiny and how relevant they are to actually how well the planning services are unfortunately they agree quite well but they don't represent what is actually happening because as the planning time runs out the planning officers are asking so many of the applicants for extensions to their plans which as an applicant you're terrified you know the plan you're doing so you readily agree to it and that can happen once or twice during the application sometimes three times as happened to me so that is per se so that is personal experience also when there is a raft of applications come in it's amazing how the validation slows down so those figures are kept healthy so perhaps what is suggested here and a much better performance management indicator would be the number of applications that are actually open in front of the plans that would be true representation and measurement going down whether it's improving whether the plan is dealing with it or not and I have made that suggestion before Thank you Can I ask another question? I'm looking for a bit more depth to the validation that has been raised just now the information is certainly there and can be discussed at the scrutiny for example this question of the length of the validation my understanding is that that is the main issue there in a huge amount of cases is that the applications are simply on value so you need to lay it out in more detail at the reasons for the delays of validation and other technical things the time scales for assessing applications actually start when the valid application you can see when it's confirm that it's validated so that there's one about intentionally delay I think this is a very beginning and that is something that should the appropriate place for discussing that is in scrutiny when there can be some trigger frame rather than this pretty important statistics at the moment on that side I'll switch to this Just earlier the number of planning on one of the multitude of government websites I wonder if it's not to support the moment to copy paste and put on the road website are residents going to our website for information they don't start searching government websites thank you I would refer members to the government website and table P24A district planning priorities planning decisions by development planning priorities and it gives you exactly what you're asking for up until September of this year so you know why are you asking to do something that you can access yourself why you're back to on my phone from the government website thank you I have no more speakers Councillor Kerr would you like someone to be I haven't got much else to add that's already been discussed other than that you know it's put there just to make the council as transparent as possible and if the information is already there what's the harm in having it on our website so I'm comfortable thank you so we come to the vote if you wish to support this motion you will press the green button if you wish to oppose it you press the red button if you wish to abstain you press the yellow button as everyone votes can we see the result 11 voters in favour 25 voted against no abstentions so this motion has lost our third item is in favour of the right council and the right people to vote your vote thank you Chairman this is very straightforward it's asking for transparency again I think people who put in an application to our planning officers should have the right to know whether it's being dealt with by our planning officers or private firm it's simple as that I'm not against this private firm taking out but what I'm interested in is providing good service to our residents it's helpful because we have this huge workload and to compare that I'm very grateful for officers supplying figures very quickly when requested this week on the workload there are 1363 open applications on officers' desks including pre-applications as well if you compare that to what there was when I was the member for planning we had a performance management figure of having 385 open applications so that gives you some idea of the increase in the workload in the five or six years I have to say that was only achieved once in the planning department through a party to celebrate but they've achieved getting it down to that figure and it was remarkable it was achieved but setting a target that can be achieved as well is great and you know if you're a telequest doing this and helping our officers out I'm sure that can be achieved and what we're asking for with this version is transparency so applicants and councillors cash councillors all know who is dealing with the application it's very simple when we've done it in the past some of the work that we've outsourced has not been in the highest quality and if the private firm does not come to scratch I don't obviously our planning service tainted with that so I say that with the experience of the past when we've done it in the past we've tended to use consultants rather than planning services or other alleged authorities to do more work it's much harder for them in the district the quality of their work is not often as high as our officers can be so let's make it plain to our applicants and our residents who's dealing with it and I hope you'll support this mention Thank you, do you have a second? Councillor Roberts, would you please speak? Yes, I'll take that chair Thank you Those who've been in this council chair will actually recall that I've not always been very supportive of the last administration where planning was concerned half of them have always supported them however I had great hopes when the administration changed that things would be better, done differently we've slipped that again I'm very, very satisfied as I've my parish councils at the thought that we without being told about it we suddenly discovered that a private contractor was being brought in for verification and assessment that actual start is very important so to find out that it was going to happen and we've not actually been told about it and informed and asked our reviews about it is somewhat alarming to say the least when it went to the scrutiny committee and once again we didn't really get it explained to us how it was imagined it was going to work got an awful lot of excuses of why the system wasn't working what was wrong how many officers we were down problems of getting employees to come here because of the pressures that they imagined when in the private sector well I'm sorry we don't want excuses people who are getting paid should actually be coming up with solutions and all we got told was these are the problems and so we're going to we're going to take on no we're not going to sort it out we're going to take on a completely nebulous outside body we don't know anything about most of us have never met we have no idea how many local people will be actually doing this on a occasion because the firm is from miles and miles away up north we know some members don't pay to think up north about your brains so it's up north but then I think you how many and also we weren't really given indication of which applications that we would be doing validation on would it be a house size of house would it be an amount of houses that were involved or the business or whatever it was just well some of them will just go to the outside people and I'm sorry I'm afraid it will be a great danger of it being a box-ticking exercise because how the hell if we're so short of officers how the hell are we actually going to check it how are we actually going to we haven't got the officers we haven't got the officers in house to do their normal jobs they can't do the verification so who's actually going to be checking this what real validation is going to be made of the quality that we're going to get here I have no confidence whatsoever because I'm not being given any information I'm just thinking the excuses of why things aren't good here councillor Robertson can you limit your comments to the actual motion for us which is simply asking that we should know when the terror quest employee is involved etc we should indeed and we also should be knowing why they are being involved I'm sorry that is not part of the motion but I'm just putting a cross-turn to those who have the power that we don't understand this because we've not been given any information how can we understand this verification and expect even to be told because even if we're told it's going to be very occupied by an outside organisation we don't know what under what ruling that's going to be what measurements are going to be taken this is a dog's breakfast the department is now a dog's breakfast you have you have officers you have officers who have been undermined and this is what it's all needing to do councillor Robertson we were not faulted off we were given a very clear explanation that under the previous regime we had had problems and so new solutions were being sought these officers are just as well quantified as I understand it the jobs will be allocated to case officers in this department there may be some validation done by these Terraquest staff who are excellent staff and who run our portal and none of the decisions as I understand it are likely to be made by Terraquest staff unless in consultation with our own officers anyway this is a sensible approach to putting in extra resource that is needed and I think it's a perfect reasonable solution councillor councillor I have no other speakers who are good sorry I can't see any hands councillor can't sorry I went there in comment I'd like to comment down in the sense that it might be an interest and the whole time I'm planning to be a member and so professionally if I'm a fan of myself I would like to remind you that the clear implication of this is that you have seen people with Terraquest and that's the fact that we should be worried about them I would like to emphasise that these people will be professional fans so I have to correct can I remind all members please the motion is simply to ask no when they are employed there is no issue about their competence in the motion which is before us and we restrict ourselves please to discussing the motion before us it's implicit it's a good motion I'd like to point that out make that point out councillor have a word thank you there while it may have been interpreted chair or some members of that way it's a case of making it clear to applicants and those involved if you actually look at the wording of this motion it is to increase transparency something that I suppose some of us naive we hope is one of the things we can agree on this chamber that we need to be as transparent as possible and I think it's only right for the applicants as much as the parish council to know exactly who is involved with their application they get even a case officer that leaves it there is no infirmant on any employee of the tarot quest it's just asking it's asked this motion is asking that people are made aware of who is dealing with the application that is it that is all that it sees that is all that it says and I truly believe that there can be no harm done by being transparent in this matter thank you chair if we are talking about transparency can I just say when this was done by previous administration when you were nothing about it when you were nothing about it can you stick to the motion I will by asking us by asking the service to say whether or not it's a sometimes a poor officer or self-employed officer or a contractor it's not helpful it is invariable that there is something potentially wrong with the work that these people are doing for us we correctly have contractors working for us in the service nobody knows who they are what they are is case officer name telephone number 40 to 60 is whatever it is that is it and that is what will carry on happening so I don't see any reason why would we need to say to parish councils, breast eggs, applicants where might it be this person is in fact I could perish for a meeting yesterday evening at 6 o'clock this item was discussed and the parish councils and the clubs that attended asked the question how do we contact and they explained this to them and I thought oh that's alright then so let's have a case officer name and a case officer contact details they are happy so I'm afraid the people who are fighting for on their behalf have already said we are happy with this to go on and get this done it is transparent to them they have a case officer they have a way to contact the case officer the final decisions the final decisions all those cases will still be made by sometimes employing officers what's happening is therapists will take the early bit of them so that they have time to do proper planning that's what it is let's stop making a mountain out of this mobile let's let our planners get on with what they're fighting to do very sorry to reinforce that point I can't see what it is to regain from such knowledge the fact is as soon as you say that two different bodies involved there's a differentiation some people may think that you get service from one and the other but how would you know it's the planning service that's all it needs to be and there's a point of information of leads we've been all round very little has talked about motion it is just a simple request it's not going to cause any massive amount of work it's simple that applicants could have the knowledge of who is dealing with their application simple as that it's all very well saying it's a case officer a case officer is hanging on somebody else and a case officer they have to go right back and chase all the information out of the problem or it's amended all the applicant needs is a bit of transparency and to know that it's being dealt with by terrorists nothing against that nothing against terrorists doing and helping out our officers it makes absolute sense to be doing this but asking that applicants and residents have transparency of what is going on thank you gentlemen now move to the vote if you wish to support this motion you will press the green button if you wish to oppose this motion you will press the red button if you wish to abstain you press the yellow button has everyone voted may we see the result there are 10 votes yes 25 no and one abstention the motion is lost council the topping would you like to propose your motion I would like to propose I will in proposing it just forward momentarily look forward we've had a long afternoon I'm asking for indeed a seminar an opportunity to do some challenge ask a question if I'm assuming these even by not even ahead or a week of a ride it should be good in agreement with this motion then I'm forced to sit down but answer answer came very well so I must continue this council seems to have got use to the idea that one person can make decisions a few months ago and I'm glad to see that saying are more sensible minds have intervened the idea was that an investment decision of some 20 million to be taken by one person and here we have the same thing again a matter of great concern to our residents to find the answer decided by one person how to meet and my point is that I don't want to see the idea answered by this leader we all know those of us who were here before 2018 how difficult it was for parish councils and indeed you know you made a big deal of this so to see you please make sure so I am concerned I believe many people should be concerned that the council's own data shows a reduction in 5 years that's 5.6 to 5.3 now if there is a trajectory that is to continue then we should be worried so I'm asking simply or they said with direct planning it must be very difficult for you because I'm sure you want to say an awful lot but that's the way it goes so amazing for you to set up for you to raise your presence we can have some questions we can test the risk assumptions that's all there is and if you say no then you say no you have a second and he comes to write you a speech now I have no speakers at the moment Councillor Wright would you like to close the session I will be great to turn I do second this in the space of 18 months we've seen the 5 year lapse by plummeting rapidly from 5.8 to 5.3 I know 5.3 is a margin but when it's declining that rapidly developers are sharpening their knives and their pets so this isn't asking what we're going to do about it although we'd like to know how you're going to deliver more houses how you're going to speed up the planning process and all of that this is just a simple question for putting your minds of this council together as the leader of the opposition suggested working together to come to a sensible solution to help this matter forward so I had asked you to support the summation thank you Thank you, you come to the top I think all I can say is that the council of the writers sub-operate Council of the Hawkins do not signal her intention to speak until I had asked for the second to 1.2 so I'm sorry I can't rely on you to speak if you wish to support this motion you will press the green button if you wish to oppose it you will press the red button if you wish to stay you will press the other button as everyone voted and we see the result 10 years 23 no 3 abstentions 4 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 30 31 31 31 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 41 41 41 41 42 43 44 46 47 47 49 50 50 50 50 1.000 2.000 3.000 4.000 5.000 5 6.000 7 8 10 9 10 A hyn sy'n dweud gyda ffyrde cyflwynydd â sgwyr drwm, iawn o fych yn dweud i'ch ganddo i'ch wneud umbu a gwheithio cynllun geirwyr yn dweud i'ch gyflwyno. Mae 5 megawatts wedi'chcynnau dwy ffordd mewn cyflwnydd sy'n dweud i'ch gyflwynydd yn dweud. Y mae'r tynnu yn y dyfodol o'u môl, gallwn leverio yn ddweud â dwy ychynig, yn y ddysgol yn y ffordd o'r llyfodau cyfanidol ac y ffordd o'r bysio. Felly, mae'n mynd i chi'n cael ei gilydd o'r bysio yn y Cysigol, i'w ddynnu'r 0 yn Llyfrgell, yn Llyfrgell Cymru, yma, mae'n cael y bysio, mae'n cael ei ddefnyddio, ac, oherwydd, mae'n cael eu ddechrau, nad yw'n cael ei ddysgol, yn cael ei ddysgol, yn cael ei ddysgol, nid yn cael ei ddysgol. Thank you, do you have a second. Councillor Cardugi. Councillor Cardugi. Thank you. Numerous energy and efficiencies and different net-zero targets on all these things that normally we have Councillor Piper Payne to talk so passionately about. And time and time again when we have supported these motions, it is something that matters deeply. ac mae'n rhaid i'r fawr o'r cyflawn. Rwy'n rhaid i'n gwybod, ydych chi'n cael y rhai gwybod yng Nghymru yn cael'r cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yn cael y cyflawn. Ac mae'n cael ei ddiwedd i gael. Ac mae'n cael ei ddiwedd i'r gwybod, mae'n cael ei ddweud bod yn gweithio'r gweithio'r cyflawn yn cael ei ddweud, cymryd, y cyfnodd a bod y cyfnodd yn gweithio yn y cyfnodd mewn cyd-gaith yn y gwaith yma. O'r amgylcheddau newydd, mae'r gynhyrch yn gweithio'r gwaith yn y cyd-gwyrd gyda'n cael eu targyl. Mae'n fyddwn i'n gweithio'ch gwaith yn ei gwirioneddau i gynhyrchu gyd yn gweithio fy ysgolwch yn y cyfnodd mewn cyfnodd yn ei gweithio'r gwaith. Dim ond i'n golygu, golygu'n meddwl iawn. Ac mae'n meddwl i'n meddwl i gael i ddesgrifennu'r ddeunydd yma, ac mae'r cyfrifiadau yn yr ysgrifennu, mae'r drosau'r c mannerfaeth, a'r cyfrifiadau sy'n yn ystod i'r cyfrifiadau, a'r cyfrifiadau sy'n yn ôl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl. O'r cyfrifiadau'r ddeunydd yn ymdillon nhw, yn chi'n gwneud o'r meddwl i'r hoffaeth, i gael gwnaeth yr hyfforddiadau cyfrifol. Gweithio'r cyfrifol yn ei wneud o'r wneud. Mae'n edrych i ddau'r bynnag â ganddiadau bydd y ddweud. Felly mae'r tyfn y gwnaeth yn cyfrifol hwn i gwirio mynd ar y Holyfodol ac mae'n cyfrifol ar gyfer ei ddweud cyfrifolol. Mae'r cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol hefyd, darnau dyfu gan fynd y byddwch. Felly mae'n gwirio i'r rydych chi'n gwybod i gy sidewalku. ond we should take the action here and make representations to the centre of government to get its policy changed. Thank you, Councillor Bridges. Thank you. Well, I consider myself very fortunate that I have the only community wind turbine in South Cambridge in my village. A million-pound project, the investment all came from local people and local businesses, and so the beneficiaries are entirely the residents of gambling gain. It also provides enough electricity for 100 homes, and it pays a tide back to the village for about £7,000 a year which are invested in green infrastructure, and all sorts of different village groups have benefited from that. So I'm also now the political leader on the environment for the Oxford-Camershire arc, and I will be at a meeting of all the leaders of the arc tomorrow. At that meeting, I will be talking to them about opening up the Oxford-Camershire arc for onshore wind. Because it is the cheapest form of renewable energy now, and it's all very well to say that one wouldn't be representing one's residents well, but actually have we had those conversations recently with our residents? It's a different world now from whatever the last time was. We've had a passionate speech today from Councillor Haylings about how much this matters to young people. And actually the people we should be asking are young people, do they object to wind power which actually might be part of the solution to the destruction of their planet which every day we hear more and more about and which becomes more and more terrifying every day. So we've got to draw a line under the past, and we've got to start making our decisions based on today and people's views today. And actually, I would not be sowing my residents well if I did not approve something that might save this world for us and for our children. I've been having an extra week of it for breakfast every day this week, building up for this debate. I actually became a councillor to oppose the news farm on my doorstep. The council has been here at 17 turbines between a very pretty area and thank goodness it was turned down by the inspector and everybody else. Since then I've been involved in playing pretty on the wind farm near the six mile bottom, which I think has been a success. Very bear up bears, very people who just near it. I was happy to support that at the time and that went through on appeal. But also we had a wind farm filled next to my ward by Huntingtonshire and that has caused problems. It is very close to one of my villages and has caused problems ever since. Even after six years my email as councillor handily will confirm is going through regularly with complaints every week about the noise and the AM and the vibration coming from these turbines. So it's not a case of just building. We have to build them in the right place and they have to be built with communities. I don't disagree. I think it's great what we've done in Yangon and Gay. Unfortunately it's not being replicated anywhere else, but wind farms know community-supported ones yes and in the right place. So it's like all planning issues, it's the right thing, the right place at the right time. So I have to say I'm not happy with this. I think even two turbines is too much, because of the noise and stuff. Particularly in South Gams, I have no opposition to them over the rest of the country. I'm going to see these. If people were really sincere about this, we'd see them shooting up in Cambridge on industrial estates and places like that. How many do we see? None. Against main roads, exit-based wind turbines, none. There are opportunities, but it depends. You can't just say, grant two willy billy, against main roads, that's possible. Thank you. Because I've been here for every day and I was here when the art was made, I do remember very clearly some of the discussions about wind farms and how unhappy people were about them. What worries me is this trying to impose things on our residents. Without checking with them, I'm smart of what has happened in Bridges Parish, but I do remember that there were people in that parish who were happy about it. They got a seemingly linear calm down. If a parish wants to and residents want to do something themselves, and they're supported in that, that's fine. But come on, let's stop this totalitarian desire to impose what you think is right on everybody else. Because I'm sorry, Richard. These wind farms are not going to save the planet. They're not even going to save Sam Cair, Richard. What will save the planet is industry, who will come up with good ideas. And actually, one of the things that we will live to regret is the destroying of the coal-fired power stations in this country. Because if we only put more effort into looking out for better ways of producing electricity by coal, we would have had a lot better results. The answer is not in this. The answer is in nuclear power. It is in nuclear power, that's why I say as well. Can you restrict yourself please to the motion which we are discussing? Yes, I will. Thank you, Chairman, for reminding me of that. So, why are we thinking that we can send something to a Minister of State when actually we've got no evidence whatsoever that it has got the support of our villages, our parishes, our parish councils? It's totally unacceptable. Please stop forcing people because you think it's a good idea to have all these things in their parishes. Have a discussion. I'm sorry, but it's so very disinclined to have seminars here where we can all sit round and talk about the things that worry us because maybe this is one of the things that could. But you're just putting things out of the hat. You're just demanding of things. It's not the council I joined it. Actually, you aren't crushing the public. And, you know, I, you know, Councillor Haley and I have spoken many times about zero carbon aspirations. And indeed, you know, last year I was pleased and happy to support a proposal that came to this council. I mean, two meetings together, a leader sort of said, well, you know, we must all work together tonight, perhaps impersonally reminded of it, you know, working together requires a good will. And you've seen, Chair, a couple of motions this afternoon that are, you know, earnest in their endeavour. And they're not honest with you. I admit freely that some of them aren't honest with you. That's not having any kind of hiding about that, but some of them are not. And the administration has, as you strengthen the soul of people, had all the work to be done. So there is very little people under you. Perhaps, you know, the new chair, the new chair, the chief executive of the council, might reflect on how difficult and how bad-tempered some of the discussions are. Councillor Topping, can you address your remarks to the members? I will. I apologize, Chair. So on this issue of onshore wind, I personally do not believe that in a place like South Cambridge, that onshore wind is something that is going to make a huge difference. In Wales, Scotland, in the peat district, in Northumberland, I see many wind farms, and they're absolutely fine. For South Cambridge, which is, you know, which has a lot of villages on next week, this proposal is a step too far. I'm so grateful. Thank you, Chair. We have two real assets. Councillor Topping's own contribution to onshore wind. And he has a great interest in onshore wind. We're going to need wind service. You know, people may consider them to be alive on that step. That's an opinion, and an opinion that visually might be valid. But we need solutions now. We need safer solutions now. We can, in future, take wind turbines down, and we can have undisturbed views forevermore. But if we don't do something now, then we can't simply reverse the effects of climate change as they progress, and they increase in their rapidities we're seeing around the world now. So complaining about them in your own backyard is an empty argument in my mind. So where are they? A further question I have is, by all means, I will support this motion to make this request. But I would say one thing, where will the turbines be manufactured? I heard it used to be, yesterday, about conveying manufacture down in Farris, and then she showed that. So what I want to see is that any wind turbines that are placed inside Farris are manufactured as locally, hopefully within South Kent, so maybe within some small industry units that needs to be located in Canberra, to have that kind of industry, and those sort of jobs generated here. On that basis, I support the motion. This echo is a couple of comments from some other speakers. I believe that if we did not support this motion, it would be a huge disservice to our children and the future of this plan. You haven't got the time, not to. Thank you, Chairman. I thank Councillor Roberts for his comments earlier, because that really underlines why young people are getting interested in politics. There's no imposition in this. Actually, the scope of the motion from Councillor Harvey is quite simple. We're talking about small-scale onshore developments. There's no imposition. It's modest in scope. It's not taking any away from the planning process. This should be supported. I actually agree with quite a lot of what Mr Councillor Wright said earlier. Windforms in the wrong place do cause a lot of acts, a lot of grief, and I can tell you when the wind's blowing while the number of emails I get in the morning. Let's have them in the right place. We want them small in scale. They are a solution, and we should support this motion. Thank you. Really disappointed. I think I'm surprised. It's all been zero carbon, but that's what we just heard. Yes, zero carbon, but we can only do this. We are looking now at research that the Climate Change and Environment Committee heard this week. If we want to build this number of houses in South Cowns, we have to look at all the alternative ways of producing green energy. Wind is one of these. And Councillor Wright absolutely in right places by the roads, urban areas as well, the road is small. Do you know why they're not being done? Because this government didn't let them be constructed. It took that out of the planning process. It left it only up to neighbour plans. It's the only place that allocation can evade rather than the proper planning process, which would have allowed it to happen along roadsides in urban areas. So all we're saying is bring it back into the centre of the planning process. Bring it back as an evidence-based piece of green energy where, and I know it's not totalitarian because I love sitting alongside Councillor Robert in planning committees where we know that is not totalitarian. There is evidence, there is a democratic process around important strategically controversial planning applications. I think the tide has changed. A public opinion around this, based on evidence, has changed. And my God, in South County, yes, this is a place where we can have both solar and wind energy and all of the types of green energy too. And I really do plead with Councillor Topping and Councillor Gwynff with the library on these things that we can't have any reason on this one. Let's have evidence-based planning for where they can be and where they should be within South County, otherwise we will not meet our zero-power time. Thank you, Chair. The requirements that we are building for electricity is going to face our current system absolutely has no trans-achievement. The average use of electricity in a household will increase by some 10-fold if you have electric cars last week. No capacity availability program to even approach that. That's without the 2015 ban on gas in heating in homes. So 25. If we don't start building this production now, we're just going to be too late. Will we build them in the venues perhaps? Because if we don't do anything else, it will be under water. So it will be offshore. No. And we can't be in these. I think Councillor Clayton suggested we can take them back down if we don't need them anymore. We can't build and take down a nuclear power station. I mean, we already see the problems with that. I mean, this is fun. This is just crazy stuff. I mean, it's simply beyond compare. We need to be able to act in a very small step in that. You think you know everything. You think you know everything. Order is a very small step and I recommend it to the council. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. So I wasn't actually planning to speak on this, but after hearing what Councillor Robert said, I think it's important that people should know that not all people on the right of politics are opposed to the environment, and I find it very sturdy when people actually make speeches about how good coal is and about how we should improve. Can we restrict ourselves to the version it is? So... Well, just a little thing, Colin. Last year, I only generated 5.4% power that was just using coal. And that goes down from... Can you restrict yourself to the motion? So, in terms of wind farms in South India, our position really is we won't preserve the environment. The environment is both a preventive climate change, but it's also protecting our beautiful green fields. So when... and we might be talking about wind farms, what we're really saying is we want to live in a beautiful open countryside which is unskilled. And one of the things that's sort of disturbing... I'm in fact lost. I'm in fact lost. One thing that's disturbing about this debate is that we haven't talked about the other things that are damaging our countryside. For example, the fact that we have, in our electricity period, we have gigantic towers carrying wires overhead here. And what I'd really like to see in this debate is us talking about how can we remove these terrible things, visual pollution from our environment? I think we somehow get electricity providers to actually start pulling down these transmission wires and start carrying them on the ground. So my policy on short-wind is that we should be using this as an opportunity to actually rid our environment of the electricity problems that are coming up. But I want to just also say that I don't know if you saw the news last week about offshore. The fact that the prices achieved in the auction, I think some of them were as low as 40. My parents don't know that. Are actually the lowest we've ever seen for offshore. And really, the lower-term solution is that it will be economically viable to build winter environments offshore. Councillor Michael, will you stick to the point? So what I'm saying about that is that offshore and onshore wind are competing with one another in exactly the same way that cold and onshore wind are competing. And in a racial space of time, we will be able to build offshore turbines that are economically completely viable. Can you conclude your remarks, please? Or other forms? Councillor Michael, can you conclude your remarks, please? Of course, thank you. Thank you. I'm now going to ask Councillor Tom to make his contribution. We have about two minutes left. Now, I want to simply comment on most of the points in favour of what we should do. Anything like that we knew what energy would be important. The need, I'd like to comment that basically onshore wind is one of the few forms of energy which is an effective advantage of that. And this seems to be most unsatisfactory. Normally, any form of energy to have the right to apply any form of energy is considered on its merits. We're not proposing here that we have a very, very near-year approach to wind power. We're proposing that we should have a small scale wind turbine assessed under the normal planning procedure. This has technically not been okay for about four years. And there's obviously a question that cannot be justified if I have two planning procedures that have been going on. We think this is a simple way of making our contribution to the future of the wind turbine. Okay, I'll show him to just by the way it is going on. Onshore wind is even more important. It's cheaper than offshore. It's been handed simply on the national scale, which doesn't seem to be to us to be in that case, to be justified. I would therefore suggest it be what I want. I would hope they would support this which seems to be a simple option to try to produce a positive change in our local environment. Thank you. Gerry, if you have time I'm very happy to sign up very quickly. First, I'm saying that I'm not busy about wind farms. We're talking about small, onshore turbines. Secondly, we're not talking about something which is competing with offshore. Offshore is developing very efficiently and to our complementary. And the third thing is to pick up that I suppose much of what Councillor Plocking says. I'm concerned with the state number. This isn't going to make much contribution in south Cambridge. We're talking about zero carbon in south Cambridge. To reduce our own emissions, to make our own contribution and to ensure that we're not just relying on others to keep the offshore because it doesn't matter much about that in south Cambridge. So with that, I would seek to improve the situation. Thank you very much. If you approve the motion you will press the green button. If you wish to approve the motion you can press the red button. If you wish to abstain you can press the yellow button. That's everybody voting. Maybe see the result. They have voted 26. 26, I'm sorry, my nose is not very good. 26, yes, to eight, no and no abstention. So the motion is carried. Thank you very much. If you come to the final item, item 12, you are asked to note the engagements carried out by the Chairman and Vice-Chairman since the last couple of meetings as on Cade Road 5. However, there are two conditions to note. Firstly, on the 8th of August the Vice-Chairman attended the funeral in Land Beach of Alan Wyatt, the first wire chair of South Cambridge District Council and on the 6th of September the Vice-Chairman attended the Fenland District Council Civic Reception at East Green Community Centre. Thank you.