 Hello and welcome to this CUBE conversation. I'm Lisa Martin. This is going to be a great conversation about corporate social responsibility. And I'm very pleased to have two great guests here with me today. Kieran McCloskey joins us, the Director of Internal Communications and Corporate Philanthropy at NETSCOUT. And Professor Sally Eves is here as well, the CEO of Aspirational Futures. She's also a Professor of Emergent Tech and is CTO by background. Ladies, welcome to the program. It's great to have you on today. Thank you. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. Great to join you both. We're going to get some great perspectives here. As I mentioned, corporate social responsibility, we're seeing that emerge across every industry and every company is really focused on that. Kieran, I want to start with you. Where tech companies are concerned? We see corporate social responsibility really aligning with STEM and STEAM. Why is that? There's probably a couple of reasons. I sort of wrap it up as it's what employees do. It's part of their job, so they get excited about it and they want to share what they do with the next generation. And the other aspect that helps it align with tech is it involves the educational aspect. So we're teaching and we need up-and-coming students and employees and entrepreneurs with those skills. And the other part about STEM is when you think of it, it's typically K to 12 and then it rolls into college and it's working with students in the next generation. So the education and the pipeline or the education and the students speak to the pipeline aspect and then you add in people getting excited about their job and what they do and that's the employee engagement aspect. So it really brings the two pieces together. I want to dig into that employee engagement in a minute. I wanted to get your perspective. Tell us a little bit about aspirational futures and then let's talk about the alignment between that and STEM and STEAM. Absolutely. So yeah, aspirational futures are a nonprofit, kind of working across tech education and social impact and really looking at kind of opening up opportunities in the industry to a diversity of experience and using tech and data as a force for good. We do projects locally and across the world. I'm kind of breaking down those barriers. It's kind of all that democratization of opportunity, I would say. And in terms of STEM to STEAM, that's where I see the journey going at the moment. And effectively with that STEAM focus, you're bringing the arts to an equal stage to the tech skills as well. So for me, that's really important because it comes down to curiosity, encouraging people to get into the sector, showing what you can do, building creative confidence, emotional intelligence, those types of skills alongside the tech skills to actually build it. So it's that combination. There's complementary factors that come together. So for me, STEAM is a great way to get holistic learning for life. With the rate of change we've got at the moment, it kind of gives you that tool set to work from to be empowered and confident for the future. That confidence is so critical for anybody of any age, right? But one of the things that we've seen that is in the inaugural ESG report that NetScout just published is this digital divide. We've seen it for quite a while now, but we also saw it grow during the pandemic. Sally, from your perspective, what is that? And how can tech companies help to fill that gap? It's a great point. I think one other thing that the pandemic did was made it more visible as well. So I think particularly if we're working in certain spaces, we've seen it more, but I think for everybody, it's affected our daily lives and education from home, for example, for the first time, it's made gaps more visible. So absolutely huge to focus on that. And I think we're seeing it from the organizational perspective as well. We're seeing gaps around certain types of roles. We've seen higher churn because of a lack of data literacy skills. So it's becoming something that's become an acute conversation in day-to-day family life, but in organizations across the world as well. And also it's about challenging assumptions. Just a few weeks ago, there was some research that came out at the University of Reading in the UK in a common with other universities as well. And it was kind of showing that actually, you can't make the assumption, for example, that teenagers that kind of call digital natives all the time actually have full confidence in using data either. It was actually showing there were gaps there too. So we've got to challenge assumptions. So literacy in all its forms, whether it's data, whether it's financial is absolutely key. And we've got to start earlier. So what I'm seeing more of is better outreach from tech companies and other organizations into primary schools, through to universities as well, kind of internships and placements, but also another really interesting area that we do with the nonprofit is looking at data waste as well. You know, 90% of data that's archived isn't touched again after kind of three months. You think about the amount of data we're producing at the moment. How can we reuse that as a force for good as a training opportunity? So let's think creatively, let's be pragmatic, address some of these data literacy gaps, but we have to do it at all levels of the community. And also for adult learners too, that's hugely important. Right, it's, there's no, it knows no age and you're right that the visibility on it, I think it can be a very good thing, shining that light finally going, we've got to do something. Karen, talk to us about what NetScout is doing. The digital divide is there. You guys are really focused on helping to mitigate that. That's right, that's right. So as guardians of the connected world, that's our job with our customers and our products, but also with our people in our communities is getting people connected and how can we do that? And in what ways are we able to do that? And recently we engaged with Tech Goes Home, which is based in Boston and they provide those first three pillars that everybody needs, access to a device, access to the internet and skills to use that. And they work with families and students and they say their programs go from nine to 90. So they've got everybody covered. And what's exciting for us is it kind of falls from a volunteer perspective right in our wheelhouse. So they had to transition from in-person to distance learning with the pandemic and suddenly their program materials needed to be online and they needed to get people up and running without the benefit of an in-person class. What NetScout volunteers were able to do was create those tutorials and those programs that they needed. And we also have people all over the world and then we translated them into a bunch of different languages and they were able to then move forward with their programs. So Tech Goes Home and programs like that are really that first step in bridging the digital divide. And then once you've got the basics, the toolkit and the skills, what else can you do when Sally mentioned visibility? It's what are the opportunities? What can I do now? I didn't realize there was a career path here. I need these skills to build a business, help me learn more. So then there's that whole other aspect of furthering what they can do now that they have those skills and the learning and something like a hackathon might be a fun way to engage kids in those skills and help them go a little further with the tools they have. And NetScout's done a number of hackathon programs. Last year, I know you had an all girls hackathon virtually in 2020. Talk to me about some of that and then I wanna get Sally, I wanna get your perspectives on what you're doing as well. So our hackathons, and I'll try and keep this brief because we've done a lot. They were actually brought forward as an employee idea. So that also speaks to our culture. It's like, hey, we should do more of this. We have a partner with Shooting Stars Foundation and one of our employees is one of their, or is their board chair and the hackathons, what they do is they, and these are beginners hackathons. So we're talking middle, high school and the theme is civic. So something good for society. And what we do is over a course of 12 hours, not to mention all the pre-planning. When we had the in-person ones, they were in our office. They got to see employees up close, run around the building to the extent that they could and build their project. And Sally, I think you had also mentioned that creativity and that confidence. I mean, what those kids did in a day was amazing. They came in and they're all kind of looking around and they don't really know what to do. And at the end of the day, they had made new friends. They were standing up in front of executive judges presenting their idea. And they all felt really good about it and they had fun. So I think it can be a fun, impactful way to both engage employees because it's a heck of a team building experience and sort of bring students in and give them that visibility to what's possible in a tech career. And that confidence. Sally, talk to me about hackathons from your perspective and what you're involved in. Absolutely, funny enough, I've just come from one. So I'm at COP26 at the moment and I've been involved in one with a university. Again, using that talent and building that empowerment around SDG challenges. So in this particular case around sustainability. So I absolutely love that. And really echo Karen's thoughts there about how this is a reciprocal relationship. It's also super rewarding for all the employees as well. We're all learning and learning from each other which I think is a fantastic thing. And also another point about visibility. Now, seeing someone in a role that you might wanna do in the future I think is hugely important as well. So as part of the nonprofit, I run a series called 365. And that's all about putting visibility on role models in tech every single day of the year. So not for example, just like International Women's Day or Girls in ICT Day, but every single day for a diversity of experience because I think it's really important to interview people for a C-suite level. But equally, I just did an interview with a 14 year old who did an amazing project in their community to support a local hospital using a 3D printer. It makes it relatable. You can see yourself in that particular role in the future. And you can also show how tech can be used for good business, but also for good for society at the same time. I think that can challenge assumptions and show there's lots of different roles. There's lots of different skills that make a difference in a tech career. So coding can be really important, but so is empathy and so is communication skills. So again, going back to that steam focus, there's something for everyone. I think that's really important to kind of knock down those boundaries, challenge assumptions and drop the stem drop-off we see, make it a little bit more steam-focused. I think that can help challenge those assumptions and get more people curious, creative, confident about tech. I couldn't agree more curious, creative and confident, the three C's that will help anyone. And also to Sally to your point, showing the breadth and diversity of roles within tech, coding is one of them. It might be one of the ones that's most known, but there's so many opportunities to allow these kids to be able to see what they can be is game-changing, especially in today's climate. Karen, talk to me about, you mentioned in the beginning of our interview, Karen, the employee engagement. I know that environmental, social governments is core to NetScout's DNA, but we're talking over 2,400 employees in 35 countries. Your folks really want to be engaged and have a purpose. Talk to me about how you got the employees together. It sounds like it was maybe from within. That's absolutely right. We have a way to support employees when they bring forth these good ideas. And the hackathon was one example of that. And the cool thing about the hackathons is that it leads to all these other community connections and people bring forth other ideas. So we had an in-person hackathon at our Allen office in 2019. Some of the employees there met staff from Collin College who said, hey, we'd like to bring this hackathon to us. So then the employees said, hey, can we do a hackathon with Collin College? So really it's employee-driven, employee-organized, supported by the company with the resources and other employees love to be part of that. And the event at Collin College brought out all those skills from the students. It was on climate change, so relatively hot topic. And they did a fantastic job while they were there. But that employee engagement, as you said, it comes from within. So they have the idea, we have a way and a path that they can find what is needed in their community and deliver on that. And it really becomes a sense of pride and accomplishment that it wasn't a top-down mandate that you must go volunteer or paint this wall. They identified the need in the community, proposed the project, get the volunteers, get the corporate support and go forth and do it. And it's really amazing to see what people do in their community. Well, incredibly rewarding and fulfilling, but also very symbiotic. There's one thing that's great about the students, or those that are from 9 to 90, like you said, having a mentor or mentors and sponsors. But it's also another thing for employees to be even more productive and proud of themselves, to be able to mentor and sponsor those folks in the next generations coming up. I can imagine that employee productivity would likely increase because the employees are able to have something fulfilling or rewarding with these programs. Karen, talk to me a little bit about employee productivity as a side benefit of this. Well, I was going to say, during the hackathons, I don't know how productive we are because there's a lot of planning and pre-work that goes into it. But I think what happens is it's an incredible team-building experience across the company. So you're reaching out to executives, hey, would you be a judge for this event? And you're explaining what it is and where it is. And you're roping your coworkers into spending 12 hours with you on a Sunday. And then you're finding somebody who has access to a speaker. So you're talking to people about it. It's outside your day-to-day job. And then when it's over, you're like, oh, yeah, hey, I know somebody in that group. I work with them on the hackathon. Or I can go up and talk to this executive because we hung out in the hackathon room for X many hours on a Saturday. So it's another way to build those relationships, which in the end help you be more productive as a whole across the company. Absolutely. Relationship-building, networking, those are all critical components to having a successful career, whether we're talking about STEAM or not. I want to unpack something, Sally, that you said in our remaining few minutes. You talked about challenging assumptions. And I guess, suppose I'm one of those ones that always assumes if I see a Gen Z-er, they're going to know way more about how to use my phone than I do. But to bring up a really good point, that there are these assumptions that we need to focus on, shine the light on, address them, and crack them wide open to show these folks from 9 to 90 that there are so many opportunities out there. They're limitless out there, I would say. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's all about breaking down those barriers. And that research I mentioned, something like 43% of teenagers, about 16 to 21 years of age, were saying they don't build data literate. And that assumption is incorrect again. So making sure we include everyone in this conversation. So going as young as possible in terms of introducing people to these opportunities, but making sure we don't leave any particular age group behind, it's that breadth of engagement with all ages is absolutely key. But again, showing there are so many different routes into tech as a career. There isn't one linear path. You can come from a different area. And those skills will be hugely valid in a tech career. So absolutely challenging assumptions, changing the narrative about what a tech career looks like, I think is absolutely hugely important. Hence why I do that series, because you want to see someone that's relatable to you, at your next level potentially. And something three steps ahead, it just makes it so important. So for me, democratization of opportunity, breaking down barriers, showing that you can go around different ways, and it's absolutely fine. And do you know what? That will probably, you can learn from that experience. You can learn from mistakes. All those things make a difference. And don't be put off. And don't let anyone hold you back and reach out for a mentor. You mentioned sponsorship earlier on as well. I think that's another thing as well, kind of using the spirit of influence we develop in our careers and maybe through social media and helping people along the way, not just through mentorship, but through active sponsorship as well. There's so many things we can do together. I think organizations are really listening to this. There's better embedding around DEI initiatives now than ever before. And as Karen's been describing, fantastic outreach into communities through hackathons, through linking up with schools. So I think we're getting a real contagion of change that's positive here. And I think the pandemic has helped. It's helped us all to kind of pause and reflect what we stand for as people, as organizations, all the way through. And I'm really excited that we can really harness this energy and take it forward and really make a difference here by coming together. And that is such a great silver lining, all of those points said that you mentioned. Karen, I want to wrap with you. There's great momentum within NETSCOUT. I mentioned over 2,400 employees actively, so many people in the employee community, actively engaging in the hackathons and the opportunities to show from nine-year-olds to nine-year-olds the opportunities that STEAM delivers. So what's next for NETSCOUT? What can we anticipate? More hackathons, more focus on the digital divide. I just want to, as Sally was speaking, something occurred to me when you said it's never a clear path on the tech journey. I would love to be listening to one of those conversations 10 years from now and have somebody say, oh, you know, when you ask that question that you're always asked, you know, what got you on your journey, what started? I'd love to someone say, oh, I went to this hackathon once. And ever since then, I got interested in it. That would be a lot of fun. I would love to see that. And for NETSCOUT, we're going to continue to do what we do best. You know, we focus on where we can make a difference. We go in wholeheartedly. We engage with volunteers. And we'll just keep doing what we're doing. Excellent, ladies. What a great conversation. I love the lights that you're shining on these very important topics there. You're right. I talk to a lot of people about their career paths and they're very zigzaggy. It's the exception to find one that we're studying computer science or engineering. But Karen, I have no doubt with the focus that NETSCOUT's putting that Sally, that your organization, is putting on things like hackathons, getting people out there educated, becoming data literate, that no doubt the narrative will change in the next few years. So I went to this hackathon and NETSCOUT did. And here I am now. So great work, very important work. I think the pandemic has brought some silver linings there to what your organizations are both doing and look forward to seeing the next generation that you're inspiring. Thank you so much. Real pleasure. Likewise, for Sally, Yves and Karen McCloskey, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching a CUBE conversation.