 Welcome to another episode of Recover Loud, presented by Recovery on the Road, a talk show dedicated to ending the stigma of substance use disorder. I'm really excited today to speak with our son Dylan, who's the older brother of Taylor who we got to speak to a couple weeks ago. Dylan, Taylor, and our other son Seth all grew up in the home where Lori and I both suffered with substance use disorder. Today's episode is going to demonstrate the difference that one can experience a situation as compared to another. It'll demonstrate that trauma can be seen differently and experienced differently between two different people during the same event. I'm really excited to have Dylan with us today, and we're looking forward to all he has to share. Hi, Dylan, and welcome to Recover Loud. Thank you. Tell everybody what you're up to today and where you're at. Like you said, I'm down in North Carolina. I am in the United States Marine, I've been in for about two and a half years. Just recently bought a house, living with my wife and our three little puppies. And recently Lori and I got to go to North Carolina and spend some time with Dylan and his new wife and their three puppies. And if you knew us three years ago, you would understand that that experience was one that really drove us in our recovery. When the kids were growing up, we had these three little rubber ducks. And if you remember, Dylan, we used to always talk about how we had our ducks in a row, and they were all close-knit family. And then once the kids got older and our substance use disorder took off, our family spread apart. Dylan's freshman year, we were living in Massachusetts. After some horrible experiences, I totaled four vehicles in three months. We realized that we couldn't live the way we were living in a place where I didn't really know anybody. So we had to decide to move back to Caribou. Dylan, who had joined the football team and the basketball team, had really done well in this new high school setting. And he was given the opportunity to stay in Massachusetts when we moved back. And though it was seen as a great opportunity for Dylan, it was something that was really difficult for me to accept leaving him behind. But Dylan, can you tell me a little bit about what high school was like, not having us there? So initially, like you said, we all lived out there and then when you guys made the choice to move up, I was given the chance to stay. After the rest of you had left and I had moved in with our family down there, things just kind of went pretty smooth as far as like I would go up and visit in the summer. And I would come back down and have school and do my sports and keep my grades up. I was doing really well and it was, I think, my sophomore year, the summer before my junior year. I just came up to visit and a lot of the time that I was like up there, I wasn't really, I didn't really feel the same kind of welcome because it had been so long. And so after that, I kind of started distancing myself from you guys up there, not knowing anything about the substance abuse. And so my junior and senior year was pretty much very isolated from you guys up north. And I think I did that mostly just to protect myself because I didn't know what was going on with you guys. I didn't know really anything and it was, and it went well for me at least. I found my own hobbies, I did my own thing, I started working out, I had jobs, I had a car. And then my senior year was actually when I found out about the substance abuse. And I think that was the biggest shock for me because I had no idea in the entire four years that I had been living in Massachusetts that that was going on. So Dylan, I want to back up. Obviously today we've told you that the substance abuse didn't start during those four years. We just kept it from you all that time. But can you go back and what was your childhood like? What was it that you were doing and how did you feel? Did you notice something was wrong or what was it like for you? Looking back at my childhood and stuff, it wasn't, to me it wasn't negative. To me it was, we would go on trips. I played my sports, I did all that. I had what pretty much any kid could ask for, just having that freedom to kind of explore the adventure. And the thing was when we were living out on the Persevera is where I think I had that the most freedom because I would ride my bike in town and I was nine, ten years old. I would ride my bike, I would go pretty much anywhere and I could explore anywhere and it felt like the world was in the palm of my hands. I would go out to the farm with you, I would go shopping with mom. It wasn't a negative experience and the only thing that I ever did notice was that you guys would leave and you'd be gone for a couple of hours and you'd come back and you'd be there. When we were there, did you feel like, did you feel loved? Did you feel supported? Over times obviously if I was being dumb, I'd get yelled at or get punished but I guess as far as being loved by my parents, I definitely felt that, I definitely felt like you guys didn't, I thought you guys just didn't have a well-paying job. So that's why you couldn't always give everything to us, which was fine by me. I understood it, I accepted it and I just felt like you guys were doing everything you could for us with the money that you did have. I definitely felt loved by both of you, you guys both taught me very important lessons in life. When we started raising you guys, you had a very different upbringing than what I had growing up. My parents didn't tell me that they loved me on a regular basis. We didn't do a lot as a family. There wasn't much. I was in band early on and my mother would go to the concerts, but my father never attended. When I was on the wrestling team in high school, neither of them ever went to one meet. Not that they weren't interested, but it was just different. We raised you that every time we left the house it was by I love you and we wanted you to feel that love. I'm glad to hear you say that you felt the love. You notice the times were gone, but that wasn't your focus. You remember all the good times, you remember the positive things. I think that's what's helped shape you today. Early on having that support and that love. I know we didn't hide it from you very well, but you didn't understand it then. Was there ever a time that you had found out or figured out that something was up? The most that I think I was telling you while you were down here that I ever really noticed that there might have been something suspicious was I was looking for something in your room and I found the drawer full of pills. I remember I knew you guys smoked, but there wasn't a big deal. You guys were still around. I never really suspected anything about when you guys were gone because it gave me time to just kind of do my own thing. That's kind of how a lot of my younger years were. I just did my own thing and when you'd get home, we'd do something together. We'd either play catch in the yard, we'd build a fire, we'd go to the garden or something like that. It was never like you guys just, if you were home, it was never that you guys would come home and just never be there for us because you always were. I never really suspected anything major because I knew that you did have that injury to your back and I thought that all the pill bottles were your medicine. It was suspicious that there were so many, but I just figured they were yours. For a while it was. Those were my prescriptions. I had found a doctor that would prescribe large amounts of opiates. I took advantage of that. I didn't need the high doses of meds that he was giving me, but I knew that if I asked for it, I would get it. That was just as the addiction progressed, more and more became the norm. That wasn't possible anymore when the doctor cut me off and it left me to search on the streets for things. That's when it went from having all this extra money to go on family trips. We went whale watching, we went to Fun Town, Splash Town several times. We did all those things and I felt like I was giving you guys what I missed out on because I grew up poor and I grew up with a family that didn't do things together. So I made sure to do that, but the problem was I was doing that with illegal money. My first addiction was money and the lifestyle and the power that I had from having something that people wanted. Eventually having to switch doctors and they wanted to test me over and over again led me to using so that I would pass the test and it didn't take long once I started taking those high doses that I was on to get addicted. So it went from having all that extra money and being able to do all those great things to spending every last dollar I had and then going to work every day to work my butt off so I had something for that night. And then every day we'd wake up broke and sick. So it was that perpetual cycle. I worked to get high and I got high to work. So thankfully I was able to break that cycle. So as you were getting older and you had that opportunity to stay in Massachusetts, when the communication broke down, did you remember or feel that it might be hurting me to not talk to you or did you think that we'd forgotten about you and gave up on you? What was that like? Once the communication broke down and it would be like a month to two months before I hear anything, I just figured they're doing their thing and I'm doing my thing. And then after another couple months of that happening, I guess they just don't care. And then I just kind of go about my business, I do my own thing. And if you texted, I'd respond, I'd make maybe a 25, 30 minute conversation, call you on holidays, that's about it. And to me, I guess it was just kind of at that point I was living my life. I wasn't going to sit there and worry about you guys. I wasn't going to sit there and worry about what you were up to because it didn't change or affect me. I didn't, it's not that I didn't care, but I didn't need the distraction while I was trying to focus on myself and do my own type of growth because I didn't have my parents there to teach me. So did you feel alone in everything you were doing? Because we weren't there, even though you had family around you? Like our family down there, they helped me out as much as they could, but ultimately they did tell me, you need to learn how to do this stuff, you need to do this, you need to do this. And I was fine with it because luckily you had taught me a pretty good work ethic early on. And so as soon as I got my car, I started working. I was working on the weekends while everyone else was out having fun partying. I was picking up extra shifts during the week. I was doing everything I could so I could pay off my insurance and get new tires from my car and do other things. And then taxes and came out and I had to teach myself how to do taxes. I had to do everything I could ask for the help, but I didn't want to. I wanted to, at that point I wanted to be alone. I wanted to learn it on my own because I didn't have you guys. And it felt wrong learning things that I should learn from you, from somebody else. You know, honestly there were times in that period when I was unhealthy that I even got to the point where I resented my family that was raising you. They were taking care of you, they were giving you these opportunities, they were doing all the things I should have been doing. And I got to a point where I resented that. I didn't want to hear about what you were doing from them through Facebook posts. I wasn't getting that contact with you. And a lot of it was my fault, obviously. Because in the moment, even when I thought about you, I still was thinking about where's the next tie coming from. I had to focus on either going to work to make some money or finding some scheme, borrowing money from this person and that person and promising everything. Or in the end I was selling everything that I owned. When we were living in mass, your mother and I, we had our own business. We built a collection of tools and some equipment. And as soon as we got home, all that stuff started being parted out. So everything that we had worked for and built up just got let go. And it wasn't the $400 hedge trimmer didn't get sold for $400. Chances are, I don't remember exactly, but chances are I sold it for $40. Because whatever I could get so that I could just get high. And I miss a lot of those things, those physical things that I had worked so hard for. But in the end they really didn't mean anything to me. And I gave it away. And for me it's difficult to even consider the fact that you might feel like one of those things that I gave away. That was never my intention when we left you in Massachusetts. And in the end I know that it felt that way. But just know today that was never my intention. And I deeply missed that connection to you. When you were growing up I felt we were close. Playing pass in the living room with the football when you were two. Teaching you how to ride a bike at age two. All those things and I remember it early on when you knew nothing. You looked up to me and you wanted to be like me. And then later on, as you mentioned, you came up in October of 2018 after some ugly things happened at home. Was it 2018? Yes. It was your birthday in 2018. You came up and I had been arrested. And you wanted to know what was going on. And I remember you showed up. It was like three in the morning. And instead of going to bed, we sat and talked until about 7.7.30. And I was honest with you. At that point I wanted you to understand what it was I was going through so that you knew it wasn't just that I didn't care about you. Do you remember that conversation? Do you remember? So what did it mean to you in that moment to have that conversation and learn the truth that I was telling you that day? When I had gotten to Grampy's house, I went in and said hello to him. And he said, I knew your dad upstairs. He was waiting. And I just left your guys' house. I had seen mom and she had to go to bed. So I said, okay, I'm going to go talk to dad. And I remember I walked in the room and I saw you. I was honestly disgusted by how skinny you were and how your skin was hanging down off your face. And I couldn't believe that was my dad. And when I asked you what happened, you were honest with me. And I could tell you were honest because of crap. And I think if I think back to it, I think I've maybe seen you cry three times. Because I grew up. And it was, it was a pretty big deal for me to like see that and hear everything you had to say because I didn't have to fight you. I didn't have to ask you over and over again to be telling the truth. I said, what happened? And you told me everything. And I think that was, that's a big reason why it didn't take me as long to just forgive that aspect of things like with you. Was because immediately when you were honest. Yeah, and honestly, I felt at that time. I mean, I couldn't hide it anymore. I couldn't live with the fact or with the idea that you thought that we didn't care about you. You know, that we had forgotten about you, that we had abandoned you. Because when we first went into that scenario, you know, I went to you and had that talk. And I asked you, you know, please don't resent us later for this decision. And, you know, I kind of knew at that point what was going to happen. You know, I kind of knew that I wasn't going to be able to afford to come down and see you. I knew that I wasn't going to be able to send you birthday money or Christmas money. I just, I kind of knew that the life that I was living wasn't going to allow that. And, you know, but I saw it as a great opportunity for you to get out of the chaos and have a good jump start on your life. When I went off into the Army when I was 17, I remember I was at the airport ready to fly out and my parents had taken me to the airport that morning. And just before I walked away, my father shook my hand and said, I'm not going to tell you to make me proud because you always have. And I'll never forget that moment because that moment was the first time I'd ever heard my father say that. And honestly, I don't know, I didn't understand how important it was to hear that from my father until I actually heard it. And then, you know, the story, I went into the basic training. I got injured and sent home before graduation. And because that was such a big thing to me in that moment, I felt I let him down when I got discharged. And it was, you know, it was a pain for me. You know, it hurt that the one time I heard it from my father was something that I couldn't complete and finish. So I know over the years I've told you that I love you and that I'm proud of you. And I just, I want to repeat that. You know, I'm proud of the man you are today in spite of the upbringing that I gave you. And I appreciate that you do remember the good times. Because honestly, you know, I know that my upbringing made me the person I am today. And, you know, I'm seeing the man you are today and I'm proud of the man you made yourself. And also I want to make sure to tell you that you don't have to be alone anymore. You know, I appreciated the phone call in November before Thanksgiving. And, you know, now that you're allowing us in your life again, because you needed that time to heal. You know, I want to be present for all of your milestones and be a part of that. So, you know, I appreciate you coming to that point. Dylan, I want to thank you for taking the opportunity to have this conversation with us. You know, we did do this once before, had some technical difficulties. So this isn't the first conversation we've had, and it won't be the last. And I'm grateful for that. You know, your mother and I today are willing and open to have these conversations with you. And we're willing to be there. So if there's ever anything that crosses your mind, you know you can ask. And, you know, I just hope for the continued healing for our family in the future. You being where you're at, your sister where she's at, and your brother on the path he's on. You know, these were dreams that, you know, I thought that I was going to prevent you guys from having. You know, because, you know, people following their parents footsteps, you know, you repeat what you learn. And I was really concerned for every one of you what it was I was teaching, you know. I feel like just finding something to do, finding a way to help is a really good way to cope and to deal with the issues that you've been through. Thanks for watching this episode of Recover Loud. If you or someone you were loved are suffering with substance use disorder, please reach out. You don't have to do this alone. There are people who care about you, even if you haven't talked to them in some time. Recovery gave me hope for reunification of my family and the gifts of my recovery are coming through every day. And if I want it bad enough, and if I work towards it, and I stay on my journey, I know I can achieve anything. Don't forget to like, comment, and share this video and subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can watch Recover Loud on YouTube as well as on PMC Channel 5 in the greater Portland area. Thursday nights at 7 o'clock. Have a good night. Recover Loud everybody. Thanks for watching this episode of Recover Loud.