 is a consultant on creativity innovation and design thinking. So we would like to have Dr. Murli on the stage. Good afternoon everybody. How was the lunch? How was the gulab jamun? How many gulab jamuns did you consume? Honestly, how many ate only one? How many ate two? How many ate three? How many ate four? Very good. Life is short man. Go for it. How was your user experience of the gulab jamun? Outstanding? The right texture, the right color, the right temperature. Perfect? Well, thanks say thanks to UX India for that. We have designed folks involved in developing gulab jamuns for you. First, welcome to the 2016 edition of the academia industry panel. Why, the question is why do you have such panels? Here's the issue. Practically everyone has been through academia. Some of us managed to escape without going through academia. Those are the lucky ones, but most of us are compelled to go through academia before we let loose into the wild world, right? And then you have industry doing things, and it seems that the two do not often get along well with each other. Industry claims that, oh, you're not producing graduates that suit our needs. And then academia says, well, you don't help us define the needs properly. So that's why the story goes on and on and on. Hopefully we'll never have, after a few years, we won't have this panel, so our job is to make this panel obsolete. But until then, we still have a job, okay? So we have a panel of distinguished guests here who are going to be discussing this, and the way it's structured is we have about an hour, and 30 minutes you're going to present the views in bits and pieces. Then we'll switch over to audience questions. Please ask whatever questions you may have, raise contentious issues. And I'll remind you at that point to ask brief questions rather than give long speeches, which is often the opportunity to ask questions usually used as an opportunity to give speeches. So we'll do that, okay? So come on, panel, come on on board one by one, and they'll introduce themselves. Good afternoon, everyone. It's like an alphabetical audio. I'm Abdul from Cognizan with 16 years, started a career from engineering, graduate, always jumped on to the UX, right? I represent industry because I've been a student, got into the industry, now going for recruitment in different academia, so trying to bring out perspective from all the angle, right? First thing I'd like to say, right, the profiling of what is the market when it comes to design, right? Students should know what really interests me, right? It's not about choosing the career. It's about my interest plus, is it really fitting me? Am I good enough? Do I have the right character, right? Do academia validates that and educates him on the right course so that when I observe him as the industry, we take him and make him productive from day one, right? A suggestion could be from, we always have a mentors club in the UX India, right? So we could have more session before student picks the right course of their specialization, right? The second one is the integrated training that they get during the course, right? So we have multiple stage of the research phase, the design phase, the testing phase and everything, everything done in various semesters and they get into pockets of various researchers, right? A small healthcare study in the hospital and an output and a design in a retail store and an output and a testing phase, right? So we have a lot of research on a petrol bunk and an output, right? But if I ask him beyond design, right, the connectivity, from where did you start the business problem? What's your market research? What's your insights and how you translated into design and what's the impact, right? Impact on experience or social impact or anything? Sometimes, you know, so another request to academia is to make it end to end, right? Maybe end to end, right? So we have a complete sample throughout. Of course, we can have more industry academia connect that we can help you to get that work. Another interesting thing that they see, right? During the point of the recruitment, a lot of ideas from the students comes up, right? As a great research done in a particular domain or a particular industry stops there post they join industry, right? It gets into the industry way of wondering. But it'd be a definitely a unique idea, a social idea that can impact to a greater extent. We don't have a platform to take that idea to a next level, right? We've been talking about supporting a traffic issue that we have in Hyderabad, right? How to be a part of Telangana's digital thing. We definitely have students community and college community contributing in various researches, but it stops in their profile before it stops after they joined the industry, right? But they're a forum, something like a social innovation forum with UX India that takes all the ideas, walk across the industry and take it to the next level, right? It could be led by the next set of researcher or it could be participation from industry to take it till we achieve that experience, till we achieve that social impact, right? In 2013 there was a question, can India perceive for design, right? If you start impacting the experience socially with respect to all the people, definitely I'm sure the moment they feel the experience of the impact that design brings in, the community that we do, it's going to really bring our focus on that, yes, India is a good place for doing design and experiences, right? With that, I'll move on to the next question. Rishikesh. Hi guys, I'm Rishikesh Zoshi from Symbuses Institute of Design. So here's the deal. I did my master's from IIT and have been working with the industry until 2014 after which I switched into academia. So I'm basically a person who's seen how the industry really works and then went to academia to see how I can kind of create a new generation of students who start thinking with product life cycle perspective of creating solutions rather as my colleague here suggested. We don't really look at ideas, but the fun is if you can really identify the problems, that is where the sweet thing is. So this is what we generally do as an academia part of coming with is the biggest problem that you can find a problem which can have a really amazing impact within the social space or you can say a commercial space. One of the foremost, I wouldn't say is issues, but there's some kind of offset that generally students feel once they graduate and then start with their courses is the structure that we will follow right from the design synthesis, ideation, conceptualization. It's not about colony, but generally a Linux is a space that has been practiced. And obviously since coming from the industry background, I do know that at points, there will be projects which are one month, two months kind of turnover time and slightly difficult to do the whole of the research in that space. But what really needs to happen is probably more of people like me who have been in the industry but now want to contribute as academicians and help come and resolve this issue as to how do you deliver efficient UX while not compromising on research part of it. So that's probably my small two sweet points. Thank you, Rishi. Deepak. Good afternoon. I'm Deepak. I don't know who I am. I studied physics and I liked it. And I studied painting. I was practicing painter. I liked it. I did printmaking and I did a little bit study on design education. I taught for the last 20 years. And I traveled my biggest education I feel is I traveled all over India almost by foot and by hitchhiking for 10 years. Okay, so and I don't believe I don't think there is something called UX. I think there is every design if it's not UX, US experience is not designed. So there is only design access actually. And it is not a new thing because any anything in the world, you look at it, if it is not good for a user experience, you don't call it a design and it's not a design. So so now when we see in the context of this new new world, we can it's a new job opportunity. So that's it. So that is where the industry academia clash as he was selling happens. Because industry comes for okay, I want this, I want this big bread. So oh, we don't have it because we actually cooked some keel or gullab jamun. Oh sorry. But actually, we believe that it's almost like marriage. Do you want an arranged marriage where you go and look for the right groom or right girl, everything ready or you want to have a love marriage? I request my students to be in love marriage in love with your design. You be a designer, you do what you love to do it. And let the industry you lead the industry, you make you innovate. So you have to have an innovation led learning to build and lead the industry not follow the industry. Because the dream of innovating is only what actually will lead us further to make now is UX maybe something else tomorrow. By the way, Deepak didn't mention that he's from the faculty at NID. Right now I'm teaching at IIT Hyderabad, right? So I represent the industry. And I wanted to quickly respond to Deepak's predicament is that I'm available. So I'm Prasad Bhardhakke, I co founder and chief of design, huge designs, Pune and San Jose based companies. One thing I've noticed over years and years that there is this debate that happens to two memory, the academy and the industry. I think, as we have seen all over the world, people are now sitting together and driving these debates into something which is actionable. If today we can come up with one or two actionable items on both the sides, I think then we will have a winner. Otherwise next year again, we will be having similar debate. Luckily, Symbiosis Institute of Design is in Pune, huge designs is in Pune. I believe we have a lot of work to do and I can promise I can create 10 star performers in Pune. If there's something that SID and huge designs can sign up, maybe first thing have some meetings scheduled right this month, have some discussions about what kind of agreement, how if we can bet that 10 star designers will be delivered by huge designs, what is academy wanting to take step forward and say, okay, this is what we will compromise because I think we need a big shake-up in the way we learn and we perform in the industry. Great. Thank you. Satish? Hi. I won't, you know, again introduce myself in great detail. So I'm Satish, I'm the global head of design for Nutanix. I basically stumbled into design. It's one of these serendipitous occurrences. I've been a lifelong engineer and then got into management and stuff like that and then started doing design just by accident and fell in love with it. So that's now that's what I do for a living. So, I mean, let me just again reframe the question that we are trying to address or at least what I think is the question we are trying to address it. I think it's essentially we are asking what should be the relationship between industry and academia and what is the goal of this relationship, right? I think that's the basic question we are asking. So in my mind, the goal is pretty clear is to produce good designers. I mean, the world is full of bad design from airplane seats to handles where you're meant to push a door and not pull it. I mean, everywhere you look around, it's just garbage in terms of design. So I think we have a social responsibility and that is to produce good designers who actually make the world a better place for all of us to inhabit and also, you know, have good experiences and like, you know, like you say, you know, it takes a village to raise the child. Industry has a responsibility. Industry tends to be, you know, on the cutting edge of things. Many times, I mean, sorry, academia tends to be on the cutting edge of things many times. And industry is trying to, you know, catch up and that is, you know, a good thing. So, you know, academia continues to lead in many ways and then, but industry tells us what is needed at that point in time. So it is a joint responsibility and I think, you know, industry needs to play an active role in being involved with academia, providing the right opportunities for people and also influencing what is, you know, being taught in schools. So those are my opinions, basically. Thank you, Satish. Here's a question. I mean, it's both philosophical and practical and you can address it in whichever ways. These are related. One is, are designers born or made? Related to that, are the right kind of people, students joining design schools? And are the right kind of people looking for design jobs? So all of these, designers born or made, what kind of people are selecting themselves or others selecting them into these disciplines and work? And you can answer in any sequence you wish. Oh, okay. It's not my word. It's my teacher. There was a K.G. Subramaniam. He, the same question was asked to him about art. Are, you know, artists, you know, artists are, the question was quite arrogant. You know, he answered it in a very nice way. Do you artists think that you are a different kind of people? So K.G.'s answer was the most beautiful answer. He said, artists is not a different kind of people. Every person is a different kind of artist. So that's my answer to your question. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else wants to address that? Yeah, Prasad. Yeah, so I think the whole creative thing, I think as you said, everyone is creative. Yeah. But I think designers are made. And in today's realm about what, you know, British mentioned and some of the other presentations mentioned, we have a lot more problems to solve. And the problem solving may not necessarily happen just by me sitting and meditating over a design and an idea would come in. I need to look outside, observe, think, come back, debate with other people, and then solve the problem. For that, there is a certain way the designer has to go through, go through the churn, throw himself up to questions, get questioned, learn from it, and then become a much more mature designer. And so if someone is coming from the school, they are probably ready with some material, with all due respect to all what professors kind of teach. But there is a lot more that happens in the industry. Are the students kind of prepared for that? Maybe not. As you would have noticed in Rangdeva Santi, right? Amir Khan says that on this side of the gate of the academy, it's all fun, but when I go on to the other side of the gate, and that is reality. And so can academics do something to prepare these guys for the other side of the gate where the gates are open and they can still come and go out? And that's my proposal that last year, which is the most foundational year when you're signing off from the academy, that one year can you guys spend in my office? I'm absolutely open to mentor them for that entire one year, but there has to be a strong program between... Thank you. Strong program between or an understanding between academics and the industry. And I'm not saying just huge designs. There are, especially again because SID is in Pune, I'm coming back to my office in Pune, but there are so many companies, right? In IIT as well. There are these programs that can be run in a little more different fashion rather than saying, okay, now go for internship, go there for one month, come back. No, I think we need to have a big shakeup. Did that answer your question? Did that answer your question? That addressed the question very well, and we'll be getting more questions later from them. Thank you. Abdul? Added to what you said, designers are born definitely, but they are made to the right shape by various folks, including the academy, the school, the staff and everybody. And what more importantly needed is, like I said, the changes in the curriculum, right? It's not the set of two months internship, I don't care which company you go, all I need is an internship output and data, right? If I know you have the right qualities, creativity, innovative thought leadership, am I sending you to the right internship or does the student fix the right interns and get himself excels in the right area? That mentorship is what would be important. So that they are made in the right way. Thank you very much. We'll see and then we'll come to you, Satish. Thank you. So then addressing Prasad and then coming back to Abdul. See, the biggest thing that probably I believe that we do is probably create designers which look at a design in a realistic perspective. I mean, let's say we are talking about a 24 student batch. When we are having discussions, we don't teach really, we discuss. We are looking at things which are impacting at different spaces. And what would happen at that point is these essential development years are for more towards the experimentation and evolution of a persisting knowledge bank. I would definitely love to have them focused on a specific core area, but would prefer to have some kind of a transition that happens. Once you have a bachelor's and you actually go into your professional space, there could be a transitional space. And that is where they could kind of come down and try to find out affinities. I have a simple view. I think inside every person lies a designer waiting for the right problem. All of us problem solve in various ways. A kid tries to figure out how to fly a kite. You figure out how to carry luggage down a flight or stairs and maybe you design something that is different. We have people and inside every person as a designer waiting for the right problem to arrive which is inspiring and they are motivated to solve. That is the view I have in general to the whether designers are born or made question because I have seen a lot of people come from a variety of backgrounds or become amazing designers. On my team I have a person who is an electrical engineer who wrote assembly code and went to school for electrical engineering and then turns out to be an amazing visual designer. There are people that come from with business backgrounds etc. who turn out to be amazing designers. It is just that what floats and what motivates you, what inspires you to actually think really that is what in the end happens and designers in that sense are made. Okay. Here is a question. Does design education as compared to say medicine or engineering or so many other things that have been around feel somewhat design education as it prevails today and it feels somewhat alien to many Indians as an education. Is there such a thing as an Indian design ethos that exists in a curriculum? Should it be there? Is design universal? Is there something specific to our culture that could be incorporated and inculcated as well as is necessary to connect with Indian sensibilities? Is that a question worth addressing? This rift that appears to exist. Prasad? Yeah, I think it's a very critical question. What has happened is and I have it in my slides when I'm going to present a little later. So the computers came in 90s engineers in India they started phonetically coding and 2016 we see that okay mostly the whole thing is driven by technology and designers and we are now we are then because of the whole of that last 20 years we have always looked at the west and we are looking at them and then saying okay let's solve an app problem let's design an app here and an app there so far so good yes we have some good case studies of the Olas probably not Uber but Ola and but there are so many other social problems that we still have in India that we could solve for this Indian or probably the eastern side of the world I'm not saying we stop designing for the western world but there's enough problems to solve for example the DCB who had come in and he's saying oh traffic is a problem all designers have been talking about traffic problems for the last 10 years in the conferences have you done anything about it? No so I think we should look at how architecture happened right space design is pretty old design thinking that was there for the last 100 and 200 years in India but that culture has lost I think we have to look inwards and see each as he said each one is a designer each one has the inner science of solving problems each individual here is unique and if they can really think inside out I think they will be far more designers sensible to solve social problems and so we can have a different culture created again in this world to solve problems especially for this subcontinent thank you absolutely great thank you Abdul in fact when I met some of the students who take design as the course when I asked them what made you to choose design they said I don't like coding so they gave me an option is it coding non coding I pick which one is non coding so I picked this that should not be the thing great thank you anybody else have a morning Mr. Bapu was saying about the chain that we expect like how Prasad was mentioning the parents start saying hey I want you to choose UX as the career you would be able to achieve it only such changes we bring in socially impacting we keep talking about problems whether we call a call center or we go to a store room in a parking we talk about the need we know the need we know how it can be handled better but we see none of them ready to do it but only we go an additional step in solving that issue then we are qualified to be a designer and the moment we bring such impact I'm sure everybody would want to take this this is a profession okay thank you Deepak the question was is there something Indian design design for education design education itself is relatively a very new discipline it's a post-industrial thing when machine started making objects it needed aesthetics so that double looking things had to be made look good that is where the formal name design itself started coining otherwise everybody was a designer Leonor was a designer or an artist or a painter or a sculptor we don't know even call him but today we say I'm a designer but now we even call it I'm a UX designer so that is where the super specialization that is where this education also become like following the conventional method like if you are an engineering student you go one and a half hour you attend to one lecture then go to another class sit another lecture and end of the semester you write an exam and you pass and that's it you are an engineer trying to look at things you know in a holistic manner you know our courses run into weeks and months at one go one teacher stays it's almost like a gurukul method if you look at that way Indian education system I'm not saying gurukul in the other sense but otherwise the guild systems they were living with the teachers they were working together that is where we made agenda that is how we made the they were do you call the craftsmen or workers who made a designer or you don't call them I don't know so what is when you talk about education what is education you have to question that first isn't it compartmentalized in packets you know you are giving this you know medicines you have this and you have the problem solving because today I am facing as a teacher the biggest problem is the pay package every student joining is what is the package if I choose this discipline precisely at IIT we decided not to have a discipline so everybody joins the same course and you do what you like you know you join the course we now call it visual design because I don't know the other side of the product design so what happens is you do what you like and then you don't like it you do the other one like animation you do it you don't like it you do a product design you like it you do the next project in that you do again like it you do another project in the same discipline you do so end of two years you have done just animation or people like me I even whether I like it or not I will like to test another one I do one animation I do one product design I do one UX and I do something else so I become a generalist so breadth and depth you decide you end of the day the student actually decides what they want to do ok instead of we have like I was in NID 18 departments so once it's you join one department you are a lifestyle designer you come out you have to give an entrance for that discipline here you because I believe education should be open where you do what you like you don't like it you should be able to shift at any stage of life which you do in industry like you know I have students like I have one student who is 58 year old you know and another student 38 year old they all join for mds and all those things like a master level coming up doing something I have a photography student she is 62 you know like that so at any time you want some formal education you want to be away from this rat race you come to academia work do what you want you know sharpen the skills what is required for the time like industry needs specific task so you want to get into that you come back to academy and then you get get so we have to be very very alert what is happening today in the industry I should know what will be tomorrow is our vision we should actually let them do let them visualize because youngsters are the most intelligent ones you know so it's like cognitively the youngest one is on the top so the oldest one at the bottom so we want you know the this kind of environment where industry and the academia come back and forth you know you need that thing to happen that's the interaction what we'll do now is did you have something very very quick if you can make a very quick 30 seconds real quick won't talk about user experience design person because I believe it's a very evolutionary field we are only looking at things we can see right now but yeah this is one of the biggest challenges that I can see industry and academia looking at this how do you really look at different design disciplines as potential talents to you know take insight and utilize them so that you can elevate your product spaces to completely different dimensions thank you it's a super possibility okay Prasad and then Satish you wanted to say something yeah yeah so Deepak mentioned about the salary thing right yeah UX means more salary so I'll go and have my kid or the kid himself says I'll do UX if I am doing HTML I want to do UX because it pays more than the passion one thing I just noticed about two weeks back and no offence meant but I received a placement form from IIT Hyderabad and it clearly says please state the salary bracket now each each designer or each individual brings in a completely different set of skills passion from the other it's going to be very difficult for the industry to say okay it's got to be okay I can be writing on a piece of paper right now if the person is really good I'll be willing to pay then more than the bracket that has been put by you know the IIT Guwahati or compels me to put a bracket it does not happen and that's the reason I want to probably cut that down because let's respect the talent let's groom the talent rather than money driving careers it will doom us in shorter time that's that's my thank you Prasad a very quick thing sure yeah I mean I just want to answer the question that you were asking which is is there a Indian design please go ahead something you can look at an object and say yeah this is designed in India just like you can you know you look at a German car for example and you know it's a German car nobody has to tell you you can you know you can take the logo off right or if you look at something that's Japanese you know exactly what it is in and once it hasn't emerged that's an external observation and design right now in India I feel is that an inflection point and it's very likely to explode over the next several years the demand for designers is extremely high because technology like I was saying in the morning has become commoditized the barrier to entry to becoming an entrepreneur to build well-designed products that do just more than perform well is you know is very high so which all needs you know great design to happen and I think that will bring about a certain design ethos in the years to come and I don't think it exists right at this point in time thank you Satish now we will throw this discussion open to the audience go ahead ask your questions do you want to keep your question brief make it one question not multiple questions so we've been seeing these discussions since morning where the role of designers was changing and from designers they're playing more of a facilitator role especially when you know we talk about innovation we talk about design thinking strategy right so my question is to the to the academy are we doing anything to facilitate that change in the curriculum you know trying to get people to think of themselves as facilitators rather than designers okay so the question is can we change is there a change in mind the lady suggests that the current mindset is that of you know a wide stage on the stage delivering knowledge whereas the role of the designer is that of facilitating so the people design themselves you're there as a change agent is there anything in academia that prepares people for that sort of a role that you're a facilitator rather than a provider of services or skills and so on so forth she wanted the academics if we can have the academics address that first and the others can do that and we'll keep it as brief as possible I don't know whether I can answer as academia provides or not but in terms of design education in all the institutes which I taught I taught almost I don't know how many so many institutes in the world most of the places we actually trained them to be the doer because the core philosophy of design is design learning is learning by doing okay but what happens is it is there everywhere like where once you grow in the ladder in the industry you slowly become organizers you know that is where you decide the point of computing you know where people like now most of the designers work for some years you can see him working in the industry coming out and doing something else I was working with an ID for 14 years I realized I'm going to become an organizer then I started again coming so I think we are actually training the designer to do hands do hands on but as you age you grow into the organizing but now when you look at the industry now where the technology has taken a lot of this hand work so it's your intellectual activity it is required so mine is also designed so I don't think doing an organizing job is not designed that is also designed because you are actually dealing with the design of a larger framework so you don't have to separate that Rishi, thank you Deepak you wanted to say something Satish so basically the question is designer is actually a mix of multiple things and a facilitator so what is academia doing I mean I'm seeing a change in the academia for example the University of California and Berkeley the design degree that you get actually has three components in it you have an engineering component that you have to take care of the domain expertise that you need then you actually take business classes because you need to actually talk to the stakeholders in the business and then you actually take design classes as well so there's sort of a new term that's emerging at least in the field of computing which is computational designers and these this kind of a mix is extremely needed for making good computational designers and that trend is slowly being embraced by various other universities and I see that being more and more prevalent as time goes by Prasad, do you want to I think to answer that question we could have designers become more of thinkers facilitators and drivers so if you look at this popular video Jonathan Ivy he talks about it very emotionally about the unibody the way unibody was created chiseled out he's talking now about engineering and the overall philosophy so he also drove designs he thought about the design but also drove the design and delivered the product into the market and that's what we want designers to be so probably what academics could do I have noticed that all projects in academics are mostly deliverable based so either create a frame, create a visual design deliver this either some projects are one week or three months or whatever it is can there be certain assignments which I just think and share your thoughts and you will be evaluated on that rather than a deliverable always been expected so and being our culture of being lot of doers right our parents say do this, do this, do this the professor says do this, do this instead of that getting under the pressure of delivery we barely think and then scramble over the weekend to kind of standard deliverable out so I think there would be certain assignments only for design thinking where then they think about the problem see how they can facilitate and drive a project without having to really show a sketch wire frames are passive we don't need a wire frame artist thanks a lot can we go to the next question thank you for raising that very very important point any academics here I hope you would seriously consider shifting your course and facilitators next question my name is Apoor, I'm traveling from Miami with Marcelo here I'd just like to ask a question about I guess we're talking about post-secondary education when students come out of the K-12 system so I've had the opportunity to go to school in India England, Canada, I've gone through a few schooling systems and one thing that I found in India was there's a lot of creativity problem solving skills that are totally stumped when you're going to the system so do you think that this problem of skill gap and people that are driven for careers through the salary caps and everyone wants to become a doctor, engineer or lawyer it stems from the K-12 system do you feel that there's a big problem there and then there's a solution that can be implemented later on as well thank you for asking the question can we deal with this problem at the school level and I think that you'll find very strong opinions and I would ask you since I'm sure each of you can talk for this for at least half an hour each to limit your comment to a minute because all of us probably want to tear down the system, burn it down, crush it but one minute more than one minute each if you want to comment on it go ahead Abdul do you want to say something? just to summarize this question so are we letting the designers to have the right problem solving skills and thinking skills allowed as part of his career? is my understanding right? are you saying to transform is the problem at the K-12 level and can we do something about changing that which will have downstream effects? yes definitely right so bachelors course that we get into no we're talking about school school yes the parents has to change right we should stop them completing the homework and we should start addressing all the questions they ask anything that they ask is why if they say I can't do this homework you try to learn from them a lot but it's other way around we form a whatsapp group we complete their homeworks on behalf of them we stop all their thinking just to bring them out of the school kindergarten the parents refer each other what the notes are you don't ask the kid what happened in the school you get the updates through the system the system is making us go not allowing the thinking to happen I'll probably interrupt this because this is going to be a very emotional packed question and we'll carry this offline so I understand can we just move on to the next question because we know the problem does lie there K-12 these folks are at post secondary level so whatever they say probably cannot be carried forward we're trying to deal with academia at the post graduate level if you don't mind that's the focus of the session that's a great question we need an entire conference for that not just design all education not just one conference 365 conferences a year sorry but I taught in school from class 1 to class 12 and there I was teaching art I completely agree with you but this question I wish there were some policy makers in the panel because the education system need to be changed there are small small pockets which is happening actually there are experimental schools happening but they are becoming very elitist that is the only problem you very have sorry if you don't mind let's go ahead to the next question the reason we are interrupting this is nobody here can do anything about it at the moment alright go ahead next question my name is Ajay I work as a UX designer so all these elite well known institutes like NID and IITs do a great job of course and we all agree on that but practically you find a lot of people in India who are self taught and who have come up on their own by doing trial and error but sometimes they are really good really talented and they have learned a lot by working hands on so how can both industry and academia like organized academia support these people I think it's age old because when I was giving a class in IIM Amdabad they said this is a typical HR problem because where HR person is sent to recruit like he want 10 people UX designers from the best US designers there is a philosophy called don't blame me in HR where what they do is they go to IIM Amdabad and they recruit if they are not good people don't blame me I went to the best school and recruited and if you even HR person take a decision go to a different not so well known school and recruit somebody and if they are not good this HR person is fired who asked you to go to there was IIM you would not go there this is what happens actually so I don't believe that in NID and IIT are only the talents I actually feel that there should be hundreds and hundreds of schools every engineering college should have a design section then to add to that we started seeking talents not just NID IIT one way is bringing the community knowledge known to everybody we go to all types of colleges engineering colleges, other types of colleges talking about what the industry is all about the design and how can they pick this as a career the second one is we obviously get the deviation approval from HR away from the policy if the person has the right quality, analytical thinking, good design thinking problem solving attitude open and show the passion if I see a passion I don't care about whether he has an arrear or a lesser than 60% of marks pay package expectation is higher we can get anything done as long as we get the right quality in the designer so we are bound to any so Ajay I think what you could do is look out for some guru in the industry and share your passion with them I'm sure that will happen I think it is a misconception that industry when they are hiring for designers they will only go for design schools it's a big misnomer there are people who have applied who come from engineering he is an engineer I have been full time designer since I was a child but he is not but still he is on this platform it self shows that he had some passion he looked at the world out there and then changed his views I think you should do that and we could always do some offline discussion as well did you want to say just want to add a point that's when I said designers are not born they are made in my plaster exam if I see a two question draw a neatly labeled sketch diagram with that question and answer the other one distinguish between membrane and non-membrane I'll go and write all the 10 points because I can complete it faster so I was born to be away from it all my practical books are drawn by my colleague I'm a biology student but I ignore all the answers but now I'm made post graduation I joined Cognizon as an ELT taken this design course but now I know what design is all about so that's a feel you will get it at least 40% of this panel didn't think they were in design and they landed up in it there you are if I just want to continue I started from going mechanical through animation ended up doing a lot of different things I think it's all about how much rigor you have see the cognition and design doesn't necessarily happen extrinsic it is intrinsic as well it's all about how you can connect to design and how you can let it live and prosper great thank you I think one quick thing I think there's enough awareness that designers can come from a variety of backgrounds but I think the choices that managers face on a day to day basis when they're trying to hire is whether to make the safe choice which is to go to a school like NID or in this case I am for hiring somebody from management as Deepak was saying whether to make the safe choice or to take the risk and I think we need to encourage people to take the risk and I think design leaders in every organization have a responsibility which is to encourage the middle line managers first line managers to take a chance on the people where you feel the portfolio is good but the education is potentially lacking and it's all right to fail you took a chance on a person and it's all right to fail next time you will learn from that and you'll know how to evaluate somebody better and I think as design leaders and organizations we have that responsibility to make sure that failure is not punished and that people are encouraged to take chances Satish I assume that your organization follows that principle yeah we try to and then the fact that there's a massive shortage of designers in the world is also forcing our hand which is good okay great thank you next question he had mentioned that each and every one of us is a born artist but then as we grow how we keep that artist within us is a challenge so that is something you today Satish is attending a corporate conference call and you give him a paper and a pen and he's been scribbling something at the end of that one hour I bet he would have a good sketch which even a designer would appreciate so there is a designer in every one of us but that doesn't need to be labeled with any kind of product management or any kind of you know corporate lingo well that's a great point thanks a lot yeah over to the next question okay go ahead ma'am hi myself Selki my question is more towards not the designers it's more towards like everyone has to know about the user or the UX so what do you think the other streams like developers and testers also should know about the design because sometimes what happen is like when you create a product the end to end in the end to end process every stakeholder has to know about the user so when designers tend to portray their points that this is important for the user's point of view managers say no no the deadlines are like you know we have trying current situation we cannot take this in developers say no no the technical glitch is there we cannot take it the testers say no no I don't know how to test it from the user's point of view so it's not always about I should not say bad design I should rather rephrase it to not a right design so it's not always a designer make a wrong point but the other streams are not able to use this point of view that's why it's not taken the good point but can you bring in the issue what can academia do something about it what is the relationship between academia and industry and how does it relate to that if you can just focus on that since we can stick to the issue here this is related to the earlier question on why a designer should be a facilitator this is exactly that if you are able to converse with the business on why you are going for such a design need and you know the design that you have arrived at is to meet a particular business need and how it translates as a business outcome and if you are able to convince the business get the sign off and your developers would follow what business is going to tell you and you need to work with the developer community you understand the technical feasibility don't design something that wouldn't work out you be part of them as well you know what's the best that you are recommending what's the business output that you can get out of it the challenge is about timeline how you can help the business pass the decision to get it done if you directly work with the developers it will say get it done in a week then it becomes you will go for a second best design or a third best design but if you work from the strategy team right from the business all the way to the delivery then it's an easy bet that's where you need to be a facilitator in terms of business, technology, design and delivery you will feel the passion when it gets accept and motivate all the community of people who are part of the design it's not my design right we will work together to achieve such business results you are and I going to look big over there then the support will be very high anyone who can speak to it in light of the relationship between academia and industry as Abdul said this is further proof of the need of training students as not just designers but also facilitators so if I can go yes please go ahead Rishi one of the biggest things is probably a designer has to start talking, understanding the language of all these different stakeholders you know it's all about communication and you being a designer nobody is stopping you you have a problem you have to solve it right the point of fact is how would you go about it and what's stopping you from going about it back in Simvices we actually go through a product pipeline and we will also go around some tech spaces to give them how to communicate with the different pieces in a particular puzzle but at the end of the day it's the you know who you are as a designer which will lead you to how to communicate really with this okay go ahead just one comment because this is basically the communication gap between all these segments I think designers also need to be trained to understand the glitch and all those things you know what is possible within the limit design will taught in my company this is deadline my company this is the technological level we are looking at all the same same way you have an orientation to the technical team that this is what designers are like this is what they think and they do all the same so I think maybe a nice restaurant in the organization where all these people can meet and informally chat and understand each other will be a better way to solve that problem otherwise we all think that I am right I studied I know it because I always hear this I have studied it so rather than sitting across the table let's everybody sit around in a more informal context okay a really good solution is a lot of designathons or hackathons where cross disciplinary people work together for like in 48 in 24 hours okay great hackathons designathons so I'll just say one thing I think in academia we need to probably have courses on influence more courses on communication and also some courses on emotional resilience because you create something and nobody is really interested in implementing it and delivering it personally and people of course critique the hack out of it so I think courses on emotional resilience are important and I think the industry can inform academia that this is what a designer goes through every day in their lives and this is the stuff that you need to arm them with before they come into the industry fantastic suggestion folks academia please take it out yes we are out of time folks thank you very much Satish Prasad Deepak Rishi Abdul a round of applause thank you very much