 Today, that's June 16th, the Communist Party of India, Marxist is organizing an all India protest and this protest has certain demands to the Modi government. Now, we know that India has been facing a severe crisis with respect to COVID-19. The number, it's the fourth in the number of cases and the government's response, it is imposed lockdown or the lockdown is being eased and the government's response has been widely criticized because it has failed to take care of the needs of some of the poorest, some of the most marginalized sections of the population. So it's in this context that the CPIM is conducting this protest. And to talk more about this, we have with us Vindhakar, a political member of the CPIM. Thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure to be here Prishnan. So one of the first things I wanted to ask was, I'll just mention the key demands first. One is cash transfer of nearly 7,500 rupees. That's a hundred dollars per month for six months for every single family, a distribution of 10 kilograms of food grains, 200 days of employment under the rural employment guarantee scheme and an end to the privatization of state enterprises. So could you detail some of these key demands in the context of how the government has been handling this crisis? Every country has given us what is called a stimulus package. And in actual fact, if you analyze each and every one of those packages, they are really bailouts for the big corporates, for the banking sector. But even in the most committed capitalist economies, you have had a portion of that package, which is directly additional expenditure for the people. To put in the pockets of the people. In America anyway, they've been getting an unemployment allowance. Apart from that, there is a direct cash transfer. But here in India, in the 10% GDP that the Modi government claims to have spent as part of that relief package, it's hardly 1% which is additional expenditure. Less than 2 lakh crore rupees. And the most shocking thing is, you have as much as 870 million tons of food grains rotting in the go downs of this government. They're spending money to keep that food grain safe from the rats. The hungry rats, which are at the food grain stocks, because there's so much of it, they can't even keep it in go downs. We don't have enough go downs for it. But they're not prepared to distribute it to the people. They are giving bailouts to big corporates. In the last two years, they've given something like over 2. I don't know how many lakh crore rupees. Even now, right now as we talk, they're working on plans, how to wipe out corporate debts to the banks. Write them off. And yet they say they don't have money to transfer to the people. Now, apart from the fact that there's no ethics in this policy, there's no morality. There's no, not even IOT of humanity. Forget all that. We don't expect these right wing governments to have that. But it doesn't even make economic sense. Your country, your economy is in a recession. Your consumption expenditures are lowest it has been for the last two decades. People have no money in their pockets. There's a huge demand side crisis in the economy. Give people money so they can spend and they can boost demand. There's nothing socialist about this. It's just capitalist common sense. But that government is so committed to this so-called deficit and fiscal fundamentalism. You know, which had been imposed as part of this whole neoliberal framework by international agencies and particularly international rating agencies. So this government is now deciding policies on the basis of international rating agencies, not on the basis of the needs of our people. That is what the protest was about today. Fundamental issues of survival. And we've got a huge response. Right. And I'll come to the details of the protest a bit more a bit later. But before that, I just wanted to ask you regarding the Modi government's handling of the pandemic itself. So how does the left see how the government's approach to the health sector and to this crisis has been since it has exposed many things about many governments across the world? You're absolutely right. And I think Modi government along with Trump and Bolsonaro and others of that ilk who refused to accept the danger of this virus, who ignored it. I mean, the WHO had warned about the global pandemic much earlier on. In January, I think it was that the WHO had given that warning to governments across the world. The Modi government didn't start acting until March and in contrast in Kerala, where we are running our government, even within this really difficult situation with such a resource crunch. Communists in leadership of the state government to provincial government have shown that there is an alternative if you have an alternative political vision. Even though your resources are so limited, you can relieve to the people. So we started on a scientific basis in January itself. And this whole question of testing, of tracing, of identification, of quarantining, the entire methodology, which is now being accepted all over the world as a model, was in Canada. But in complete contrast to that, the Modi government first of all didn't recognize it. Secondly, when it did, it didn't prepare the people for a lockdown. I mean, what was in the government's mind? You're in a country with 14 crore migrant workers. They won't even have the correct figures. Even if you take their lower estimate of 8 crores. So of that, if you say 8 to 10 crores are migrant workers and you impose a lockdown, what were you thinking? What would they do without jobs, without incomes and the margin between destitution and survival is literally daily work. Without the daily work, undocumented workers in India. So although some governments tried to provide some relief, they showed there no confidence in the Modi government's policies by walking. Lacks of workers, women workers, children, men, they picked up their bags and said, your lockdown doesn't work for us. We have to survive. We want to go home. And they started the long walk home. Thousands of kilometers all over the world, those images. And what did the government do? It was totally silent. So one big issue was the non-preparation for the working people of India. It was also at the time during the lockdown of the harvest. And the government had nothing for the Kishans of India. So that was the second big blow. First the workers, then the Kishans. Then the large number of self-employed people, small shopkeepers, street vendors. Where would they be left in the lurch? So there were rents to be paid. There were bills to be paid. There was food which had to be bought. Where was the money? So we said, I need to provide the cash right now. Transfer the cash, transfer free food grains. Ensure that those who have worked will get their wages. I mean, even countries like Germany and the United Kingdom, when they gave their stimulus to smaller enterprises, they said this is to pay 70 to 80% of the wages of the workers. Not a pie in India, not a fence, not a cent. So the lockdown and the way it was done was unplanned. It was unfotob, it was callous, it was cruel, it was authoritarian. That's one aspect. As far as the people are concerned. And every section of it. And simultaneously we've also seen that the government has been cracking down on dissent as well. Now this is nothing new. There's, especially since 2014 when Modi came to power, there's been a very sustained attack on dissidents, on those who are critical of the government. But this lockdown has been especially used to attack the critics and those who have been involved, for instance, in protesting against the citizenship amendment as well. No, you're absolutely right in that. Because there are two aspects. One is I had mentioned earlier, right-wing governments are trying to use this lockdown to push their sectarian agenda. And here in India, the Bhartya Janta Party, which is the ruling party, and its mentor or its controller, which is an extraconstitutional authority, which has a lot of power in India known as the RSS, which is a fascistic organization built on the, inspired by Hitler and Mussolini. I mean, they don't take say that. So this is not something which I'm just saying off the top of my head. So these two together and all their various affiliated organizations are trying to use a lockdown for two things, basically. One, to push neoliberal reforms. In that, you have some sections of the RSS who are a bit wary of it because then so-called nationalism won't take them so far as to totally oppose what the Modi government is doing in selling off the country's assets. But they do make a few noises now and again. So one is the issue of neoliberal reforms being pushed, the core of that being the scrapping of all labour laws, which is what the agenda is. All labour laws in India, which we've once since independence, today we have governments in India encouraged by the central government, which wants to bring back the 12-hour day and impose it. And say, this is the way we're going to get investments and we're going to be leaving China. So anyway, that's one aspect. The second is you have very correctly pointed out Prashant, is the clamping down on any kind of protest, any kind of dissidents. And this attack on democracy in which very well-known human rights activists fight us for the poorest sections of Indian society, the socially oppressed, the scheduled caste, the scheduled tribes, the Nali Vasis, fighters for minority rights. They are being identified and they are being called anti-national and thrown into jail. And one of the most dangerous things which is happening right here in the capital of India is the arrest of so many hundreds of people who were in the, if your audience will know that just before the lockdown, there was a huge movement in India on the issue of citizenship and how the Modi government was trying to attach religion and religious identity to the issue of Indian citizenship, which is actually the core of our constitution, which we are so proud of, that there's no religion attached to our state and there's no religion attached to the rights of citizenship. It's absolutely secular. So they wanted to change that, discriminate against Muslims in the main. And now they are trying to target those activists of that citizenship rights movement and link it up with the kind of communal violence that the capital of India saw in February and in March just before the lockdown. So today my case was there coincidentally on the 16th of June. My case had come up in the Delhi High Court in which I had asked for action in January against those BJP leaders including a union minister who were indulging in hate speech, the kind of toxic language which we had seen in the capital of India. Since January to June, I'm very sorry to say the courts of India have not found it important enough to even force the government to reply to the petition which they've admitted. So this is an agenda which, you know, they're taking these two together. The attack on people's rights in the form of neoliberal reform and the attack on constitutional guarantees of democracy and dissent and calling everybody anti-national and throwing them into jail including a young pregnant woman who was a 21-week pregnant young Muslim activist. Absolutely. And finally to build on two aspects you were mentioning earlier. One is that in one state in India we saw that even writing red salute comrade is something that could be punishable by law. And simultaneously we've also seen that there's been a lot of attack and targeting on the left you mentioned being called anti-national of course. And then there's a larger question of how during these times we see resistance itself. And you mentioned again one example which is Kerala which has been an example to the world on how do we have an alternative way of dealing with the pandemic in a society. A question in parallel is how do we visualize resistance at this point of time? And you mentioned the kind of response that today's protest got. There have been a number of other movements by organizations associated with the CPI that came in the past couple of months, farmers movements, trade unions movements. So seeing all this together how do you look at resistance at this point of time itself? It is very difficult to tell you the truth because with COVID cases increasing as they are we have not even reached the peak yet and we are already fourth in the world. So there is a huge increase in the infection and the poor are the most vulnerable because of lack of nutrition, because of lack of the access to health and particularly women today are among the worst sufferers because it is in this situation where in a patriarchal society like India they are having to not only increase the huge burden of care work for families were all locked in together but at a time when there is no money in the house. So there is so much mental stress and also the vulnerability to infection, worry about the children. It is a horrible situation today for India's poor women who are the large majority. So there is an objective situation which on the one hand you have a critical health emergency in a situation where you do have to take precaution. And on the other hand you have a government which is not waging a war against the virus but waging a war against its own people and their rights. So obviously as communists we cannot, we will not and we have not kept silent. So one big part of our work has been relief work reaching out to lakhs and lakhs of people, donations also from poor people, professionals who have been so generous in giving relief and helping us. So there is not a single area in India where the red flag is not visible in giving relief work to the people. But now we have to move on to the big stage of struggle and as you very rightly said the trade unions, the Kisan movements, women's organizations like Edoa, the all India democratic women's, they have been out in the streets and how are we doing it? We have said start at the village level, the block level and reach out to these lakhs of people there. Reach out and mobilize them on the very basic demands which is there for each and every section of our people. The struggle will increase. Now today in a state like Kerala the reports are that over 10 lakhs, that's a million people in one small state of India. One million people were out today but they observed physical distancing. We totally abhor that word social distancing. It is absolutely unacceptable. So physical distancing, wearing masks and doing all that but reaching out to the people and this can only grow. Resistance will grow. We cannot keep silent because really if the Covid is not going to get us, certainly hunger and the Modi government's policies are. So we cannot keep silent on it. So that's the way forward and extremely encouraged and inspired by the protests today. It was absolutely known. All villages, so many villages across India look at the contrast. Now we are out on the streets and there's the Modi government not a pie for the people but for one state to be hard to buy these LED screens to have a leader in Delhi addressing a virtual rally. So they spent 144 crore rupees. How many million is that? You please calculate and see. Address 200,000 people. And here we were with not a penny spent, lakhs of people, hundreds and thousands of communists and sympathizers and workers and peasants were out on the streets today. So just as globally dealing with Covid, there's a difference between socialist countries and capitalist countries. So also in the resistance and the way you do it, you see the red flag and other progressive minded people and citizens coming out in protest. And you look at these right-wing governments like Modi who have no money for the people and they spent hundreds and thousands of rupees to spread their toxic message not to unite India but to divide India. Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you.