 So I'm going to call the meeting to order. It is Monday, June 4th, 2018. It's a more town select board. We have a full board. And tonight's meeting, we're starting with the public hearing for the relocation on Trail 17. Otherwise, have been on a block of trail, but legal name Trail 17, access relocation. We also have that town attorney, Paul Gillis. He is on speakerphone. Paul, can you hear us? All right. So tonight, at 5 o'clock, we did a sidewalk over at the proposed, new proposed trail. This has been something that has been going on upwards of six or seven years since I got on the board. There was questions on this trail. We did a survey, found out where the original trail ultimately was located, and since have worked with the landowner, kept logic to locate that trail so it does not go through basically the septic area or the corner of his garage. So it is just a trail relocation. We also pointed out tonight where the temporary easement is on the corner of the case property. And that's to be just used for simple access. If there's any rate or permanent access that goes through the indicated trail, which was just east of that entrance. So at this point, Paul, is there anything you want to add? No. So at this point, we'll take any questions or concerns. So if there's anyone here that is intending to speak tonight, I'd like to swear you in. Or Paul can actually swear you in if you could raise your right hands. I don't swear until the group. As a group? Yes. No. Paul, can you go over that? We had a question. So this is as a group? Yes. So if you plan on providing any testimony or speaking, please do listen. One more time, Paul. OK. Now, there's a question for the store. Can you tell the group that nobody is involved in the false truth or nothing but the truth? Yes. It's affirmative by everyone. All right. Now, we'd be happy to take testimony. Is there anyone who would like to just state your name? Scott Morrow, Wendley 4 Street, acting as a representative to Montgomery Timber Company. So in 2007, we used, I'm going to go up the road. In 2007, we used an access point from the mountain road across a stretch of land over the brook, a temporary bridge that we placed in. We worked with Cal on that and came around the corner and put the bridge into our logging job. And at the end, we took the bridge out. Moving up the road, we were not aware at the time that the X, the trail, number 17, is where it was shown to us by the select board this evening at the location that we looked at, which is the location of the septic and the corner of the house. We looked at the trail that's proposed, which is a couple hundred yards up the road, which is about 300 feet long, and is in excess of 22% slope from the north side of the brook, up to the so-called existing legal trail. As a representative of Montgomery Timber Company, we object to the option of moving to the proposed trail as, unless the town is willing to pay for all improvements and make it with an acceptable water quality management practices required by the state of Vermont as a truck road. So we oppose. Any other testimony? My name is Addison Kezmeric. I am a consulting forester with Greenleaf Consulting. I am also here representing Montgomery Timber Company. And in addendum to Scott's comments, the acceptable management practices for water quality on logging jobs in Vermont, long name, acceptable grade for logging road is about 7%. So it would need to be regraded to about negative 18%. There is a ledge that is just before the corner where it starts to head kind of a strong northwest corner where there is a grade state, a second line grade state. So that would need to potentially be blasted in order to allow for that 7% grade. I also asked a question today during a site visit about the turning radius from the proposed trail onto the existing legal trail. And I was given the response that there would be no allowments for an additional turning radius or turning berth on that for logging trucks, but rather they would need to stay within the two rod limitations of the easement, which is just not admissible for a logging truck to make that kind of turning radius. Those are my additional comments at this time. I also object to the proposed trail. Paul, do you have any questions? The first witness mentioned with water quality standards in Maryland is that there are documentation. You mentioned water quality standards. We'll get you around. He's asking for regulations. So I do not have the regulation with me, but they're readily available on the internet. And even if we were to build that road within the standard, how are we going to gain 18% reduction of 18% plus or minus slope within a 60-foot right of way? I mean, yeah, within a 60-foot right of way. And the permitting costs long, because we have to build the abutments. We can't be in a block. We'd have to build the abutments in the town road. We'd have to get it permitted. And we'd have to build a truck road bridge that would cross cover 99,000 blocks. So if you were to look at the site, Mr. Gilles, Attorney Gilles, you would find that there's no way you could build a road and then propose a site. If you propose, what's the purpose of the trail? So we already have access. Why can't I walk across the current access? So I could park on the property without blocking the access to the trail. And I could walk through the blockage yard across their septic system, across the corner of their house any time of day or night, and walk up to that property onto the across the brook. And nobody could stop me. Is that correct? OK, so if I could park anywhere, what I'm saying is somebody drops me off, and I want to walk across that trail any time, day or night, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, I cannot be stopped. And there's no additional purpose of the trail, except by granted by the select board. So can the select board grant access across a legal trail for uses out of the walking? OK, but they could. Any other, Ms. Did you have additional questions? Michael Brown with F&W Forestry. Why don't you go ahead and move up, Michael, to take you up. OK, I can move up. So Michael Brown with F&W Forestry, representing Timberrest Partners 2, ADK. I was always under the assumption that, whether it be a class 3, 4, or a legal trail, it's all a legal public right-of-way. And you are legally permissible to do anything that's legal or permissible in a state or a monitor in that town, in that right-of-way. And that includes improving it with select board, and usually town road foreman approval, for logging access or permanent access. Is that correct? We have a process in town. If you want to work in the town right away, there is a permanent process. Right, that's correct. So if that's a legal trail, which is a public right-of-way, kind of like Scott was saying, that truck road's there. So if it was granted by the town to put a truck bridge back in that spot, you could use it to put trucks across again, correct? That's correct. OK. And so it's a public right-of-way. So anybody in the world right now can walk right on that public right-of-way and do whatever they want, because it's a public road. As a ground trail, you can walk on that track. That's correct. That is correct. And to prove it, I'm talking out of order. If the select board approves, we can improve upon the trail. Right, again, any town, access, whether it's a trail or a road, we have permits. You can send in a permit to the town. And the road foreman looks at it. And if it's something that we want to do, we can. But again, it's up to the guy. That was a town highway downgraded to a legal trail. When it got downgraded to a legal trail, it became everybody's property owner legal right away. It's everybody's property owner. The own property up there, it became their legal right away. It might be a legal trail to everybody else, but it's their right-of-way. So it's not just for walking. It might be walking for everybody else in town, but the people that own it up there, that's their legal right-of-way to their land, because it was a town highway. It's always, it's a town trail now, and whatever the town trail is. And then you look up the state statures, which I have copies of. When it was a town highway and gets downgraded, it becomes their right-of-way. That's correct. That is correct. Cal? Yeah, I've been near a lot of the people there. Where the town thought the trail was. The gentlemen over there that worked for the logging company, they couldn't make that turn then. When they thought, you know, they asked me, Cal, can we cut trees in your property? Have the excavator come out and dig it way up? We'll put it all back. There was no problem. I said, sure, no problem. And they did, they done an excellent job, because they couldn't make the turn there. Then, now, I mean, it went on, and the town determined that the trail was never there. You guys had it surveyed, and Mr. Townsend determined the trail was never there. It hasn't been totally where it was, but where they're saying it is now, right through my yard, said I built the garage wrong. I was told where I had to build that garage, where I parked my cars, the original house was there. Now, I have somebody that I haven't hopefully still, I was 90-some-odd years old, lived on that road, said it was never a bridge there, period, because that was all farmland, it was all fields, and it was never, you know, never a bridge there. There was a blacksmith shop there. I had a building garage in the exact same spot, town told me, that the pre-existing one couldn't, now I didn't get permission to move the house. But the system, I didn't put the system in, it was grandfather, it was already there. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been a permanent issue. That's why when she went to mediation, it was determined that she won't land up the road. And being a trail challenge, not responsible for putting in a bridge or anything. And it's been, as far as I can remember, a trail, there was a bridge there, but not suitable for big equipment, you know. But the farmers all through there, Larry Sumner was the one that said, this is bad, I guess, farm here. Said they were, yeah, we put bridges in the river, they wanted you to get across from their land, cut the hay and stuff. Cal, how long the access where you let the loggers kind of circle around? You let the loggers, excuse me. Excuse me, we never owned that land, we had no right to let it go through there, ever. We didn't, our deed and name was never on that property. Yeah, John McTravis says my name was never on that property. So I don't know why you're involving us because we only owned on the other side. I owned on the other side. We never owned that property. John, you finish your question. Okay, sure. Thanks. Well, I just wanted to make that clear. How long had access, how long had people been using that through there? I don't know. I honestly have at least 30 years. Okay, just a question, you brought it up. Yeah, I, I, I. That's what the guy just wanted to, sir, in the back here. Hi, Vince Rune. I own the land abutting the forestry land, and which is affected by this access road. I just have a general question for the town. So. Could you, was it Vince, you said? Vince. Could you mind moving up, sir? Yeah, sure. Thanks. Take a role in the seat. So I just have a general question, and it's sort of relevant. But this discussion over this town road and access to it, it affects property that's now owned above Crosbrook Road, which has now become landlocked because of access rights. Now, if the town is going, like my house is located up on Condon Road, at one point it was a class three road, it was thrown up to be a class four road. So I maintain that road. The front part of that road is owned by the CASE family. The CASE family trusts now. So we have a joint agreement, I know, of the CASE, and I basically maintain the whole road, and I take care of it, I put my own gravel on it, and because I need access to get to my house. What is the general requirement, and this is probably a legal question, if the town has sold a piece of property located up on the mountain above, which has to have permissible rights to have access to, what's the minimum class road that needs to be provided to have access to that? Because there's a lot of property sitting up there owned by several people, and now it's landlocked, and it's been in this situation for eight years. Now, I'm not looking to piss anybody off, but I just want clarity on this because I think everybody deserves an opinion. I can get to this road by walking through the woods and walking all the way around my property, which I shouldn't have to do, but it's not inaccessible to me. I just have to go charging through the forest to get to it. I've seen people walking through the river, the little creek there on the side to get up on it because they don't want to get anybody upset, and that's how they climb up onto the road. So the question as a select board, when you sell a piece of property that's located several hundred yards from the road, but this network doesn't sell any property. If, whatever, you lease a piece of property, someone buys a piece of land up there. There are several people in this room that own property up there. There are buildings up there, okay? How do people gain access to that? What is the minimum class road that is required for access to that? Well, there's a trail. That's the minimum right there, and that is what that means. What's the definition of a trail? Is that a foot trail? Is a trail to mean a lot of different things? A trail to know. It's two rods wide. What's the width of two rods wide? That's roughly 33 feet. Okay, so that's a road. It's like 16 to 25 feet. And that means it's, and by definition of a trail, meaning that's not maintained. Correct, correct. So, you have down by Larry Sumner and down that way, you had a different class like he's talking about. It's up to, and I think Ray will tell it too, or he knows. You can have built houses there. You've got to bring it up at your own expense. Put the culverts in the way the town wants them. Make the road with, because you do have a... I don't think that's his question. No, he wanted to know. He wanted to know. I'm just clarifying something on a really nice behalf. That is legal trail 21. That is not con and road. That is legal trail 21. Yeah, no one's saying it's con and road. Right. Well, he just said this. No, but he asked. He was talking about something different. He was talking about your area. Yeah, I was talking. He asked how he built a house up there. How does they, the town will take, as they did on... Takes so many. A lot of some, there are some branches off. I forget the... Yes, and if someone builds a house. They have to bring it up. Okay, so I'm, all right, let's just say, I'm an outsider, and then, and I approach a town. And there's a piece of land that's available that someone wants to sell me, okay? I ask to purchase it, I get the permits. I purchase this piece of land. There has to be access to that land. A, if there isn't, if I want to put a house up there, I have to run utilities up there, if it's not a can. Right. If I choose, and I need, if I want to drive to it, if it's permissible at my cost, I would have to put infrastructure in to meet that requirement. What is the town's minimum requirement to have access to, to rods wide? Just by needing really only that this is a trail and there is legal access to it. Okay. If it needed a bridge, you'd have to put it in. Now, you understand the conundrum here. It's because what we're talking about here now is that you have landlocked property because of this situation. And it's going to go across a waterway which is going to create an environmental issue. It's always going across the waterway. I understand, but it's an environmental issue now, especially after Irene, because the Environmental Protection Agency in Vermont is gonna create all kinds of what Act 250 issues with any kind of building codes to get anything going across there. So what is the best solution that someone who has an investment of a logging up there which I could potentially have at some point to obtain the resources up there cost effectively enough without me having to have to put more money than what I would log to get to it. I mean, we know what the town, the town is not gonna provide you the resources. It's not about the town brought in. There has to be an access for it. There has to be a means to get to it. But there is not. It's the, up to the person who purchased the property should have known beforehand what the access was. But it's been there, but that, okay, I got that. That's understandable. That's a completely valid argument to this day. Prior to this day, in the past, that was logged land, correct? What was done historically to remove timbers from there. How many years of clear lay for building that property? And how many years of clear lay for logging that property? And how did clear lay for... So I think, I don't know, it's before my time, I have my time. Scott was just picked to talk in the earlier area at least I think in 07, they came in and they put a bridge across and they had... Right, that's this company doing that. Right, that's... I'm talking about clear lay, like I'm here 22, 23 years. We've had a property, same as very older before we did, okay? Clear lay for had the property up there. So I guess what I'm asking is, is that grandfathered prior, they had access to that. And now there is no access to what was in the past. That's because unfortunately, where they had the access was not the legal trail. So this is what I'm trying to get to. So what was happening in the past shouldn't have been happening. That's correct, absolutely. Okay. So I think the understanding then is that going forward, it's a change because what they were doing in the past was not supposed to be done, even though it was done for how many years. I think they said sometimes in the 70s, people said they were using that access across there. This talent has been there for 90, your family's been there for years, right, where his house is in there. So he's been there a long time. So it has been a long time that that was what was used for access. Right, right. And then... He's been there the whole time, correct? I guess I would ask that. Yeah. And are you going to go over then? Over that? That's insane. Ever since we went in there, there was arguments about trying to get you guys to please get them out of the yard. Right. And going on, we've seen that select boards in the past have been able to do their job correctly. So the select boards in the past have approved Claylator to drive to their property and log it. No, they never listen to us. It was later when Lagerett went up there and logged, they asked me, can we put a bridge in a temporary state? But who provided permits to that? These people did. Who provided the permits to Claylator to log? Because it doesn't get logged overnight. It gets logged over a series of weeks or months or whatever it takes. Lawyer's rules are different. He can get access to the property. But you understand the point of trying to make it? Right, it was used for umpteen years for access. But who was used? Was the property used or was he also used? And in the town, not you guys, because this was obviously a different select board. But the point of trying to make is that you're trying to resolve a situation to the benefit of them so they don't want to agree. But it's also... Travis, you're out. You really can't. Okay, thank you. All right. Is there happy medium? Because you can't turn around and tell people who have had access to it the wrong property up there, you no longer have access to it. Because the past 150, 200 years we've done this and now you just can't do it anymore. Because basically he's over the everywhere. So, let me address where you're at and then we can go on. So again, when I got on the board, it was in 011 and I think at that point is when it came to us. Mr. Martin and last name's the same. We have no relation. We never knew each other in the sense. Came to the board and couldn't get across yet. To his camp, yeah, I know too well. They were still plowed up. So that's when we looked into it. We were trying to figure out what's the problem. I was in the board, Ray was not, Callie wasn't, John had been on. We were just trying to figure out what is the best way. We want access for everyone. We want the blockers to be happy. We're trying to figure out what works here. So what we had, we had a survey done by Townsend and Camarian engineers, whatever it is. That's when he located that trail that goes through the corner of this garage and hold the septic tank. And that, we had site which was different than where they were using it. Which was different than where they were being used and in logits prior to that had been saying that wasn't the legal area but it had been going on for years and years. Just, that's the way it had been. No one knows how it got there, why it got there but that's where everyone was crossing. Just the way it happened to be. Everyone at that point accepted it. It wasn't a problem. People got along. That's what, things happen in life. I don't know what happens. People don't get along, things, whatever. So that, then there's the lack of a better word. Feuding or something, that wasn't gonna work. We realized that. Going through Mr. Glyde's septic, there was a garage. It's not gonna work either. It just is not gonna work. So that's where we looked when we did the walks along that road, just trying to figure out what is the best access point for you, for Timber, for everyone. We're looking for a win-win situation. We had, I don't know how many, it's documented all this paperwork here at site visits. And we had, Mr. Martin, you know, Bertie, do you accept this? Is this good? Everyone that we could get there that had a dog in the fight, we certified letters. And I know every person who has a D touching this property has got a certified letter. So don't say you don't, because I've got a cop. That includes everybody in this building tonight. So everyone was well aware of this. And so what we were trying to do is to gain the access to you guys provide a trail. Now, trail is not a class three road, a class four road. A trail is a trail. And if someone may have the definition of a trail with that. Just so clarity, when we're talking about a trail here, we're talking about basically two pins in the woods. Okay, there is no trail or road. Right, and that's- You're walking up the steep end climb. You're walking across the water. There is no- So that's where the disconnect is because legally defined, a trail does not have to be a well cut out tour on this way. That's a trail needs to be providing. This is legal access point A to point B. And that's what we are trying to do. I understand that. But you have to also understand from a business perspective, someone else on this side of the fence, not me particularly, but I'm just saying, someone who has invested interests in the property above that, that are not going to sit well with that. For the simple reason that you have landlocked their property with the current trail that you are recommending. No, I wasn't- I was just telling something else. Because it's just, you can't access it without putting in a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of permitting process to bring in heavy equipment. It's just common sense. Anybody- But that was no different than it was before. No, that's not necessarily 100% true. But I'm not saying that that's where it should go. Please understand. I'm not saying it should go over his septic tank and through his garage. All I'm trying to say is that the solution is probably not the best solution as recommended. And I understand this wants to be put to bed because a lot of money has been spent on it. My tax dollars, hard to work. And many, many years of the select board dealing with this and a lot of aggravation for this family, who are my neighbors? And a lot of aggravation for a lot of the people who are involved in this. But the solution that you are providing is not going to be a solution because it just, practicality is not legit for somebody who wants logging out there. Any logger is gonna look at that. All right, so what would your solution be? I don't have a solution because honestly, I just found out about this in a recent letter that I received two weeks ago. I know this has been going on for eight years, but I've been getting letters and tidbits because this has been court ballots. There's no reason for me to get involved in the court battles on it. I don't want to make enemies with my neighbor. I want to be good neighbors with everybody that's in this room, okay? My interests are not in creating problems. My interest in my best interest to create problems is the select board. I'm trying to be practical. Like I said, I've been here 20-something years. I like living in Moortown and I want Moortown to succeed as a town. I do business here in Northfield. And I think mine seems to get together and just look at things rationally because I think you guys are kind of jumping through conclusions, because it's been going on so long just to try to put it away. And I don't think you're going to get... We've spent a lot of time on this. I know, I've been here since the time to start everyone at all. I understand, I've been, this is like the story of it. So, Scott said we have a few things. Thank you, Vince. Good. So, I've got three questions. I'll start with the simplest one first. All right. We found out about this, about the end of April of this year. How long has the town actually been discussing this with the blunders? It's been a while. I know we sent you a letter. Just a private letter. I'm just saying, I agree with you about the letter from the $2,000 exchange. Because you guys keep saying, we've been at this a long time. So, it's a long time since April 27th when we first got notified. No. We sent you this. Certified. Certified mailing on 8th, 17th, 16th. And some, I don't know the signature that is from month on return. Okay. So, July of 16th? August of 16th, and this was... Can you hear me, Paul? Yes. This was sent to everyone on the service list. Sent was a copy of the proposed new access. Which is the same, same access? Yeah, same access here. July of 16th? Of 16th, yeah. So, we're gonna say... This is a copy of the proposed survey. Okay. We sent this to Timberbests as well, or we found for you any parallel or four. Okay. So, that was in 16th. Okay. That was the first hearing. So, thank you. Yeah. And there's probably been, I don't know, three or four public site units as well. Okay. I just saw if you can clarify. Yeah. No, I'm more into... So, the area that's surrounding? Yes. Same thing for you? I don't remember saying that. Okay. Yeah. So, this is a hypothetical question. But for a subject system in house being within a town trail, would you grant me temporary access to get onto our live on? But for the septic in the house, would you grant me temporary access through the trail? There's a process for that. I would have to look at everything and view everything. Okay. But it is possible? I would say it isn't possible. Okay. Probability of it? I don't know. Maybe you, of course, know the process. I just wanna... And then, with all due respect, I have one last question that's okay. Has the town of Moore Town been compensated for the bludgets taking of a land that is a town-owned property? We're not a town owned property. Guys, if we don't need that comment. You're thoughtful. Yeah. Hey, guys, really. We haven't been compensated, but we haven't had anything taken from us, so... Okay, so I can go up there. Well, they are using the land to their benefit. Is that a taking? That seems to be wrong. I didn't hear what you said. I said... No, I'm just saying... All right, I mean, I... Let's... What I'm saying is... It's a long haircut there. No, it's not. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just trying to clarify. I didn't hear what you said. I'm just trying to clarify. Travis, you're really... Cal, you're just trying to hear what he's saying. Cal, I'm just trying to clarify some things. No, I'm not. I said it with all due respect. I'm sorry, I don't know. It's if... I'm just asking if you made any compensation to the town by putting a septic system in a corner. I just... Let me... Can I answer that to you, Tom? Sure. I did not put that system in. It was grandfathered. The house it was there was over 100 years old. The garage it was there was over 100 years old. I did not... I had to build that garage to the exact same footprint. You guys have the paperwork from that one from Florence Turner. The house, they gave me permission to move the house where it was. Otherwise, nothing could go through there anyways. The cellar hole is still there. The septic system was put in by somebody for the people that owned it before my dad bought that house. I mean, I didn't do it. I didn't take nothing from the town. Matter of fact, when you get a mortgage, your insurance for when you get a deed only goes back 40 years. This is one of the only states that it only goes back 40 years. So when you've done title searches to find out if there was anything ever there, 40 years you don't find out nothing. Even if you went back 80 years you wouldn't have found out the town had it rode here if it did. Because I know, like I said, I know somebody that was born on a washbowl road, a girls washbowl road that's 90-some-odd years old. He said, no. All right. Travis, did you have a brief comment? I consider this a deliberate torque to my family. From this town, this school, it's been malicious to my family for the past 18 years that I can remember. It's been malicious to me. It's been negligent of this select court to file the correct paperwork that they've already signed according to VSA Title 19-305, Section 305, subsection. This is a deliberate torque to my family. And in 2010, I told Hugh Tom, did only ever come on my land again and he walks into my house unannounced, walks right into it. All right. Travis, can you speak to my piece? Can you speak to my piece? Just forget it. Again, this is today's meeting because we've already had this site visit already. We've already done this site visit today. It's already been done. Yeah. So, all right. Just a deliberate torque to my family's questions, Paul. Any other testimony to this relocation? Tom, can I just... We walked, as you know, as you said, I appreciate you saying that. We walked that five or six times. Some people that wanted to be here can't be here because their kid is pretty sick, I guess, and he's in Boston. They wanted to be here because they walked with Hugh and I and everybody. That, during their first court hearing, the judge ordered mediation. The mediator that they appointed stated that there's no way that you can take his house. So, they, Paul wrote the terms with... What was it? It wasn't you? Yeah. Was it you? Yeah. They wrote the terms. They went upstairs and they wrote the terms and they came back down again. And they agreed to it. We agreed to everything. And then it went on and went on and went on and went on. Tom, I'd just like to say you've done a fair... As you said. You showed a fair history here tonight. Between the town and Washington. As you said, with trails, it's just a way, right of course, maybe by a walk, it doesn't have to be upgraded by the town into a road. If they want to put it into a road, they have it right. I can't stop them. Thank you, Cal. We appreciate it. I'm sorry. That's all right. So, at this point, I'm going to close the hearing on the Trail 17 Access Relocation. I thank everyone for your participation. There was a statute, I believe we have, what's it, 60 days, Paul? 60. 60 days and we will get out our decision. Thank you. What was the paperwork that was already signed? I don't know what he's talking about. We got it, right here. This was already signed given to the bank and everything. All right. That's what I was saying. This was going to be back. I know. Okay. Okay, I'm sorry. I know we've got another trial going to get home tonight too. All right. Well, thank you, everyone. Again, within 60 days, there will be a written decision. Thank you, motion. Cal, on the public comment, do you want to bring up your signage? All right. All right. Motion. We have to close the hearing. All right. Thank you, motion. We'll close the hearing. I'll second this. I'll bear with it. All right. All right. I understand. During public comment, which is the next case, you can bring up your signage. Okay. I'm sorry. All right. So we are going to go ahead and move on to public comment. Not a trial. So. However, I guess it's something that's not really needed to say. Go ahead. Um, so why don't we, anyone for general public comment? Excuse me, just a second. Not one good policy. Oh. Yeah. Hey, Paul. Any public comment, Paul? Okay. Thank you. All right. I'll talk to you soon. It's what I told you. Thanks, Paul. All right. So now we'll move on to public comment. Cal, Jason brought up something when we were walking. You wanted a sign for a driveway or something? Right. It's on here. Yeah, it's on here. Section three. We already had that paper. The sign, particularly. This one though. It's here. On, on, oh, on, two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. That's right. That's right. That's right. It was signed. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. It's, when you go around the corner, when he's, when he's trying to get out of the driveway, he's getting in the driveway. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. There's a lot of traffic going by really fast. Yeah, because I had to back in here with my trim. Yes. I put on my four wheels way up the road. The car is still there. I don't mind cars going fast. People in that road used to be 50 before. So what, but driveway, was that what it was? No, why driveway? I understand why. Line driveway. Yeah. It was a staple in the supply of the town. Because the other day, I'm back in. No cars are behind me. They've been coming down around that corner. I'm a pretty good judge and speaker. That's the least. And 55 miles an hour on the wrong side of the road. I don't need to do something to it. I don't know the policy. Cheryl, is that a statement? Do they either sign to that or is that someone at Wilfrid now? Yeah, I mean, both sides. And I'm going to start taking numbers. Like I said, I don't mind if someone wants to drive a shit. When you're walking and stuff, go slow by them. Because I do it all the time when I'm driving, you know? It's just that I'm almost going to hit another day. That car, you never could even slow down. And he whips it around me quick. I don't know how he made it, but he made it. And my four wheels are on. And I'm back and I'm in my yard. Because track and trail is coming down the road. Get him to the bottom. I know, you've got to get him. I'm sorry, but that's just the way we're going to go. I know we have the library and the store decided to come in, but they can't see. Oh, they didn't do it. They can't see? Yes. And Jamie Wimble stopped around 5.30 and said that you're not ready to come in. So take a walk. They need to come in. I think that is probably the case. Oh, no. I thought the last hour was tough. So the library is not coming in? The library is out. Well, I'll see if you can see if they need to go to the left. Well, it's nice to see you out anyway. See anything I haven't seen you in a while. I've been laid up. I'm just getting ready. So I got your text. And I'm sorry, I actually sent something back. It didn't go. It's like, why don't you guys come forward? You think it's safe, too? I think so. All right, it's more comfortable, but it's not. I'm going to borrow my cane. Watch my cat. All the way out, come on. No, no, no. Like our friends, come on. I don't know, because I don't want to get hit with it. I'm not going to get hit with it. So we're just here to say, I'm going to have a party tomorrow night, but I'm not partied out from this that you guys just don't know about work. And can you tell the women why? It's a hearing on the proposed subdivision regulations that we hope to have voted in November. There's some discussion about whether November is the proper time to do this, but we think it's probably as good as any. We'd like to have this as a discussion not just amongst the plan commission and whoever shows up, but the plan committee shows up. We also have you guys involved because the next step after where we do tomorrow night is to then pass this on to you and then you have to hold a hearing. And then after you decide what to do, after you're here, then you may or may not want to. So I guess the first question is, how is it coming? Well, so last year, there was a bit of a debacle with respect to timing inversions and everything. And we've been very careful. Because the drafts were not painted. So everybody was looking at a different version. Yeah, so we have dated drafts now. We've gone over the subdivision regs pretty carefully. We're looking at just the subdivision regulations. No, not some other proposals that have been floated earlier. We think these are the most important things to do. We were also at a certificate of occupancy. Certificate of occupancy. We're looking at, of course, that one. Thank you. I appreciate that. All this stuff. Salve jars. All of them. That was the other proposal that was floated, so. But all we want to take up at this point are the subdivision regs. And you said you're getting pushed back a little bit, too. Well, I was going to do a certain other account official telling me that some of the things wrong have been these panel meetings today. On election day in November, because that's not our town, there's a salty, fashionable matter, something. Might take out some cares. The people who come to the vote. I was going to say, don't we typically get a larger turnout? Yeah, I mean, we'd be interested in the larger. I mean, to my part, the more people would vote on things, the better off you are. It would be nice if the electorate was informed. What bothers me about a lot of this stuff is that people don't know about any of this, so they look at the ballot and go, oh, the problem is no one reads stuff. So you were here earlier. And these people that were testifying, got certified letters, OK, for the last how many years and showed a step from there. This is the first time we've heard about this. We had some, or April 17th or something. People don't pay attention. They don't. I don't know what the answer is. I mean, if you can send some certified letter stating, such as how this is changing, and they ignore it, what are we going to do to get people to? You're right. I mean, you can drag into water, but you can't do it with it. Right. So I think, and I agree with you guys, I like the idea of the November election, because typically, you get more people out. But can you get them more informed so they're just not going in and checking a box? There's an urgency to this. That's the urgency is to make, because there's the warning of the after-economy, so we warned ours. This is over. We've asked it to you. You guys seem to get on with the warning to have your guarantee that you can end the warning for the vote. And according to Cheryl N, they asked for the end of August 7th, because they have a different ballot to come in. And we would like to really work on getting the word out. I mean, I know that people don't pay attention, if they're not inclined to pay attention. But we can do more than just host the public hearing. We can put information on the proportion of the papers, and we'd like to do that. And I don't know. So I think that's a good idea. And I think we, some night, we have a, and I'm going to be laughing, but we have a party at the town hall. And we have either pizza or something. I just let them cook something or whatever. Yeah. Well, not like that. But maybe that. I mean, because food, I mean, people show up for food. I mean, I go to meetings all the time. And the only reason people come is because I bring a lot of food. Often. And so maybe that's what it is, is to turn it into something to get people out to hear. Why are commissions tough? I mean, you guys drop crowd just because of the stuff. It goes on, unless you do that. I don't know. So people are going to look at it around the TV. We get caught, like our guests, to get in on the problem. So we've also brought cookies in the past. But we actually, what was your event that you just had? Oh, Cinco de Mayo. Cinco de Mayo. We put out surveys that day. And we didn't really get wind of it until fairly late. Not because of you, no putting information on it, but because of us not reading it. So we did get a fair bit of interest at our last minute table down there at Cinco de Mayo. It was pretty, it was good. What's everyone else? I mean, I just didn't go ahead with this, but try to promote it right, and just move on. I mean, we waited a year. I'm not sure what you're saying. I think we should do it in November. But maybe put something different, promotional. The problem is, we don't have time for the parties we've got. We've got a lot of things that we mourn for tomorrow. Right. We'll hand this to you. You can have a party if you want to. Well, that's it. But that's where you're going to help. After hours, you want to make it close to the information. Right. You don't want to make it like two weeks prior. And not months prior. To hear it and capture it. After the hearing, you'll be mourned for the vote now. It's like, here's why we weren't interested. Right. So I saw a swan vote with Jonathan King, and I said, why do you want to vote? Don't you remember this liquid tax collector thing, where the room was full of people saying, you know why didn't you have the vote now, instead of a town meeting? Nobody pays attention to it. Nobody goes to town meeting you. So that was kind of like me that said, nice. You got rid of Australian ballot. We could have a real town meeting. Same thing. Same thing. Did you hear that? We heard that. Consilient time. And I see your point. All along the phone here. And I see Cheryl's point and then the idea. But I think we should just go for it. I mean, the people who are most affected by the subdivisions, have they been participating at all? Been a lot of sizable subdivisions in that. But there's like 1,000 acres all of a sudden for sale? 3,000. 3,000 acres. All in more time? Yeah. The 776 piece, there's 108 acres on the other side of the road. Plus where's the rest of it? It's on, well, it goes all the way to the map. And we'll enjoy it. So basically, that's what's for sale. Do the sellers have any interest in this? Well, we haven't actually spoken to the seller. I talked to the guy. I want the guy about the, and he's just, all he was, he's like a listing agent who works for families. He just basically said, I said, I was asking about the 108 acre piece because it abouts my property. And I just said, what's the story? And he goes, well, look on the website and if you've got questions, call me. So you're just looking at it. So, I mean, they're not going to be subdividing. They're just looking to sell. So this doesn't affect that. It affects them. But then it's hard. Oh, it'll affect the person that chooses to buy it unless they want to turn it into just a huge estate, which in the case of 108 acres, maybe, in the case of 776 acres, not likely, not for a million three, unless another beer bar decides to knock it down. The other part of it is, this is all covered by Act 250. If they want to get into a 25 lot subdivision or whatever. So, I mean, it's not like we're hanging out. No. We're treasures down here. But at the same time, we should just get something to poise and it's a good conversation to have. People should be thinking about this. More towns change, you know, for a long time, it changed a little bit. There's a house regalia here and there. I mean, the last 20 years, it's amazing how much has gone on here. And it's something that's not very good. It's really been, you know, it's going to continue, I think. I mean, you saw it at the President Wehring College. It was rich for Richmond, Richmond, you know. And now it's come up here, so we're in those better communities. So we would like this to be more than just us on the planning commission, because we're really sick of us. So we would like other people to come in, so we can have a conversation with other people. So tomorrow night, does anyone have a bell? Well, I am flying out in the morning, so I'm saying I went to the last one with Carl. Oh, Carl was right. Carl, you and John Ryder. So that was a big turnout for us. But Carl shows up just, you know, when he gets wind of us. What time is it? 6.30. 6.30. Here at the temple. Right here. Right here. We weren't so full of ourselves that we thought we needed the temple. But, you know, we're going to go over it. And I think there's a broad discussion. We can just pass this along tomorrow night as warm. And then you guys, from what you hear tomorrow night, can make your changes before you warm your hearing. You should be aware that if you go, if this thing doesn't belong, it just gets back on. Right, so it would be good if the three of us could get to our mark. That's fine for me, too. John Ryder. But at least you know about it, and you know that we're interested in working with you on getting the word out before the election. All right, so you'll get it tomorrow night. Whatever you hear, the idea, pass it to us. Hopefully John will be there. We'll talk. And then we can have a hearing. I'm not quite clear on this. So we can approve it with minor changes. And can we approve it with... You'll have your hearing tomorrow night. Right. But if there's things that we think should happen, but we don't want a slow process, we can approve it as warm. And we'll hand it with comments saying, look, I want to change this or that. I don't want to think about it. But there have been significant changes. If they're significant, then the whole thing has to go. Start over. But we've been through this once, actually, for better or worse. So I don't really think there'll be significant changes. I don't think there'll be significant people showing up. Although how many people have been hearing it for the first time? They weren't all there for us, were they? I think it was on a type of bridge. A bridge? Mm-hmm. Maybe he'd tell us it was 2019. He did it originally, yeah. Yeah, and now it's 2020. Yeah, yeah. The bridge in Middlebury that they finally did on their own was first proposed in 1955. Darren, don't tell staff. It's 15. 15. Well, the good news is they are starting in 2019, but it's around the cemetery there. Yeah. The bridge itself will be 2020. Of course, that's the schedule before the entire new building. Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, that's a fact. All right, so... We're not going to take up your... all your time. I don't understand. Something's incorrect. But then on the website now? And the date is 515 May 15. I think it's right at the top. Look at that. Right hand side. I think that was the issue before, right? We had three different copies. So all sorts of stuff. I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus. The guy who was doing all that wasn't dating as we pressed it. Every page one word dated. So we're all going to be on the same page in about three years. Thank you for your time. Thank you for coming. Nice to see you. Hey, ladies. Yeah, we're not... roll on. The library commissioners have postponed, but we're happy to see you ladies. We're not enough. I'm going to hold this because there's a goal. There's a goal? There's a goal? There's a goal? There's a goal? You should have been next in a wheelchair. I had a ball. That's right. You kept pushing around. We do have races at the end of the meetings. Just all... I know. I'm writing out my nickname. I didn't bring the woman, sorry. All right, so you ladies here from the Historical Society, and we were talking about the library relocation, and I wanted to make sure that you guys were involved in the process, and something that was discussed, and I wanted to make sure that you guys were involved in the process, and something that was discussed here, I think Tom Bogowski originally threw out an idea of December. We talked to all the library commission at that point, just to see if there was any interest. This building doesn't get used that often, and as it's gotten a little bit more talk, we wanted to get you guys, because obviously you're up in the library at the current one. You know about the history of the town and such, and have some opinions on this, so we wanted to make sure that we had an opportunity for everyone to have a say. Well, I and Elaine, I think, has met a couple of times with the library directors, and from those meetings, we got the sense that they are moving to the town hall. It's a definite move. They say it is a definite move. It's a process, and it'll eventually be voted on as well. It's going to go to the town? It'll go to a town-wide vote. But prior to that, and we don't want to rush it, our original date we were looking at is next town meeting. The next town meeting is when we were hoping to have a vote. If everyone decided we wanted to do that, there's quite a bit of the legwork that's going on. The library commission is looking at several things from what it would look like, how it would work, costs, and such. There's your... There's a lot to it. We're not done the deal one way or another. The reason behind it is we're really... We did an evaluation of the properties in town, some of that we own some land, we own our... We start buildings, and one of the things that we have to recognize is this town hall is underutilized. We use it for town meeting, and there's a few weddings and such, but not a lot of events. It's a great building. I want to keep it... Personally, I want to keep it great and put money into it. But unless we can show some use in... I don't think they would drop the use to put money into it. Whose idea was to paint that? I think... Why I ask is, I never heard of paint in a building without washing it down first. The guys who painted, painting right over there. There wasn't a pressure washer. I thought it was... He was pressure washed just before he painted it. I never saw anybody with a pressure washer. I was that couple times. I thought to myself, Mr., you wait another year down the road, that paint's going to be off of me. So it was... I think the board recognized that we need to be painted. And in the contract, it stated what was supposed to be done, whether it's been fall or not. I never saw it. We wanted to see that building utilized to its full potential. And in the last year or so, we've done really a poor job of trying to promote. We've talked about it different times. For whatever reason, it doesn't get used. So we thought that perhaps if the library is there, it's more of a community center than a library. Yes, library use, but libraries nowadays are more than just books. There's more things that go on. We're looking at utilizing that as a town center as an anxiety division. Downstairs, you have a great kitchen. That's where maybe a senior can be. Things like that. It's to really utilize that building. It's not to make it exclusive of everyone in just a library. It's more to be inclusive to everyone to use the building, but to get some use out of it. And by putting something like that in there that's using all the time, they have a lot of good programs. I'm very impressed. I don't know if you go to the library much or use any of their programs. They really do, but they're doing a lot. Personally, I think it's a good facility here. But again, we're open to... It's really we're in the phase of what's everyone think? And if everyone in town is the oral idea, it's probably nothing we would do. Well, it came up in one of our books. Have you tried to promote and put feelers out that many people know that this is available? I think we've done a port job of it. We put it on front page form a little bit. Front porch form. Front page. I do it every starting time. And then Johnny Whispers to the right. I hope it's not a bad thing that I'm saying. It's not back page. I know I did that until a few years ago. But Katrina did recently come up with a possible new piece for that. So that we've... Yeah, but poorly, we haven't done a good job of it. And well, I'm concerned that once the library goes in there, I mean, they have told us that they would have racks on wheels that they could move up against the wall if there was going to be a vet at the... But I wonder how long that will hold on. And who cleans it up, you know, and takes it to make sure that it's restored to a library again after somebody uses it, you know. This could be very... become a problem while if it's just there like it is now and people go in, you know that they're responsible for taking their mess out. When you're returning a room, especially a library to the way it was before it's difficult, I know when I was rehearsing at Med River Corral, we went into some other places when Harvard was closed. And we took a picture of it and then we made sure that everybody's stands were in the same place and everything was set up exactly the way it was. And that took another 20 minutes at the end or so to get it that way. How many people are going to do that and take care of it that way? I doubt if anybody is. Yeah, those are good questions and those are the type of questions that... and we're recording those that we will talk in the library. Those are good discussion points. So what type of racks are there available? Are there ones that are permanent on the walls that close up? There's a lot of different storage systems that are available. How many do we need now? Because most of the books come from the state library anyways and they're loans. So they've talked about they don't need the capacity. It's not like you need huge libraries anymore because it's in and out and most of it is electronic. You've done me about the things for books. All I could picture was the type of vault had. Well, I know where they are today and if they had those in that port come apart. Come apart. They're going to have a mess because they're heavy even if they roll. They're big and I can't picture them stored there anywhere. These guys that was involved the year. Have you ever seen when schools do book fairs? No, never. So they have portable things that literally they look like metal boxes when they go in the truck. When you put it on, they fold all open and they can expand. I think it's more something similar like that. But they'd be doing it for a whole library just to book fair and it would be a lot more complicated and I personally would hate to see the town hall closed up and become just a library that cannot be used for other things. And that's what I'm afraid is going to happen for a long time. I think that's something that we were very clear about when we were talking about the scope of this project is this was only an interesting idea to go investigate and wanted to retain the town hall as a multiple use facility and that was a requirement to doing this. And now we're waiting to see if they come up with a clever way to do that or not. So if there is a way to meet all the needs that we want or we want for the use of that as a town hall community-centered library great. And if not, if there isn't a good solution to that then that's as far as it goes. This is right now at the point of investigation. Because we don't have a place to go anymore either. So your questions let's go ahead with your questions because you've got great questions and those are the questions that we need to go back. Some of the summer we're coming up bubbles bouncing all over the town. That's fine. Questions, some comments that we came up with and one of them the first one was go to a poll of the people and the library building is on the state of the Monts Historic Building register so I don't know if the trustees were saying they wanted to sell that when they found out who owned it I don't know if they they said they did. I knew they were investigating that at the time that we met and I don't know how that would go if they sold that I don't know what who would want that thing. There's nothing to go with it there's no land there's no water we'd want it for a dollar for a dollar because we don't need once a month we don't worry about the heat we don't worry about the lights we don't need a bathroom I don't know what Roger Strauss did across the street from my house so that was one of the other points was it is a state building on the state historic register and then there was the cost of utilities at the town hall those would certainly go up due to the larger space and the more in use time well I think again you would have less use of you know that's not going to be significant if you use it more it's going to be costlier obviously but we hope it's used more I mean the idea is you want to get used to a little income coming in to offset the power of the heat income is good in terms of historical society the reason that's there's no I think that's all I really you won't get any town meeting lunch damn you're a real artist Denise you have a very strong good okay and then there was will there be a lease or a rental agreement that I don't know that's a good question keep in mind that we're still in the barrier these are good questions okay well that's these are the questions that we need to that's not the question that we've got right are you there when they said the you-malls aren't coming next week but they will be coming soon they are really convinced that it's going very very soon and it kind of comes a little like an uncomfortable we can assure you that it's not any time soon okay and don't get me wrong I I know they need more space with all the programs they're doing and everything and the kids programs they need about I understand that fully but I just don't think the town hall is my feelings are for their programs all their other activities that they do besides just doing books that could still be done at the town hall but they could still so they would just have like the two buildings going because you're not going to close throw out a historical building with us on the second floor I hope never do that and that would be as expensive that having that heat and electric and everything in the town hall when there's nothing going on down there except books going out that's definitely a possible model if you get increased use of the town hall by having more programs that's another possible good way to go I like the idea that they're doing programs and I like the way they're running the library I was a librarian before I moved here and before I taught I was a librarian for a few years and I like libraries but at the same time you can get as a town member and as you know there's a different way of looking at it and as for usage they keep statistics of children's books and adult circulation where all that and if the children's circulation is real high and the adult circulation is minimal it makes no sense to move the library down there but rather places in the school that aren't being used for the children's part of it at the same place if everyone's going to throw things at me the part of the elementary school there's so much love with that old library I'm not going to throw anything at you before I was here that was trying to break down the flames I don't know why last time on my list too what will happen to the historical society collection you currently house upstairs and we have new things downstairs that's one of our instruments they do move to the town hall what will happen to the historical society I can now the town hall the floats the photos the window blinds stage curtains post offices and the curtains are beautiful the idea again when we're throwing things out or when we were thinking about this whole thing is that have you guys involved down there this place is not to be exclusive of the historical society I mean you're a part of it and it should be a part of it when I say a town center that's the vision is you guys being there as well it's not to cut you out of anything in fact it's to put you more into to the circulation if you will or into the public you guys have a great little collection of things up there I've been up there when Lisa was the library she took me upstairs to show me your stuff up there the post office that you have down there is the beauty so it's no way to try to cut anything or anyone out so part of what I mean when you get here is what would work for you to be out there so maybe start thinking in those terms not so much that you're being cut out of anything and not being thought of what would the historical society think what could they bring to this city center town center that's why we looked for your input how should we paint it what colors should we paint you're involved if it is something that we do or if you're thinking yourself out or if it's someone else we want you to be part of it but we're also concerned about space no the library is down there I mean we have a full floor upstairs stuff well again it may or as Jason said this is we're trying to figure that out what would it work would you like to be in there would you like to participate in that those are the type of things to bring back to your commission and talk about but really what I want you to get out of this is that we want you involved we want you to have a voice at the table here and hopefully we're looking for a win-win for everyone we just want look at that how can we make it more viable so it's not to try to cut it let's get everyone on the table and if it's having two spots so we either leave it the way it is it's fine too we're just if we don't look at things and talk about it and throw things around we'll be the same forever we don't always need change I understand that but I think we need to talk about it and find out what is best for the town we certainly want to be involved in the back and forth and I think maybe early on we did not reach out early enough to you guys I would say that's what I'm saying no it did not but it was sometimes you don't realize when you feel what you do it's a loose conversation hey what do you think about this but we should have I heard it would be all your idea one thing that we talked about it's not all this we're having one of the meetings was there really should be somebody that works for the town that is assigned to publicize things to actually do that job because if you're trying if you have another job that you're doing that you have to do and that job is going to take priority but if there's somebody committed to it I know I used to be active in the Bundy Center for the arts and the Brown and all that and for a long time it was on the Bundy Board and we had people that we would hire that were in charge of just fundraising in that case you know not trying to get activities we had plenty of activities but we didn't have the money for it and they were people that were good at it and if they did their job it would be taxing like a collector does and there'd be a way that salary or whatever you do how would you do that would be whether they actually do a good job and are you proposing that for promoting the yes for promoting it and booking and all everything connected with money coming into it yes I would have to think of closing other buildings and just putting everybody into the town hall I personally would hate to see it become a closed building I mean now there are so many things that could be done in there if somebody is doing something about it then I put it on something besides computers or front porch or facebook well there's a lot of people that do that are phone call people they call and there are a lot of them around in this area too now although the library has brought up the fact that Warren turned their pretty much town hall over to their library I don't know if you've heard of that but I also heard that it's not just the library and that they also are affordable cards but I also heard that they had a third one for media and activities and things like that so it's not really a good comparison no it's not really do you have a copy of those? I know Katrina's been taking notes but so is there any other questions or concerns that you ladies have at the time? I just want to bring up what is the current status of the closing of some of the Valley Schools? There's more down slide than to be one of those schools that are closed and I agree with Jason 100% I think that that old original part of the school building would make that perfect library perfect location for a library except it's being used as a classroom the upstairs that could be for now the enrollment actually is increasing they have 45 45 preschool children that are going to be attending next year there's no way that any school in the Valley can be expanded to accommodate with more townhands here you shouldn't get rid of it what about cap periods? the old one the one that down the stairs the old down stairs that is not being used as classrooms but I also just wanted to say you know me well enough that I've always thought to keep this village as it is and that everything should be here and I love that town hall and I was here back in 1985 and everything else and Ray and I agreed that you could be involved in picking out the paint color I said basically well go back and see what they did in 1985 we'll do the same thing the only other thing that I had which is really not well it is permanent but what is the black note situation with the town hall? does that work out? we have this to eradicate it nothing nothing in that corner I just wondered how extensive it was pretty contained to the kitchen and that corner by the refrigerator it gets all the water which we've hopefully corrected by now you go tell them that I told them they couldn't cut some magnolia tree down I would tell them that so we appreciate you coming in appreciate your input as we'll speak to the trustees they'll be coming in as well and we'll continue to have dialogue and I'm interested to see what they've come up with they have some things that they are going to bring to us what ideas and such so we know as much as we do at some point and we have another new fund we'll never do when we get that we'll invite you when we have that in a couple of seconds so you'll be here so if you have questions we can all sit down and take care of them read it out or see yourself on the TV we would appreciate being invited to thank you for listening thank you for taking the time you're always welcome we have more thoughts in the meantime we often tell you to make walkouts you should have said that just call Cheryl or email Cheryl or how we'd like to communicate with her or Katrina and they will pass it on to us I worked with you 15 years ago alright ladies one more sidetrack thank you for your time thanks to you a long time ago and I don't even know who's here thanks guys thank you I hope you feel better oh I'm getting there I'm getting this all that's good Jason you want to use Cheryl alright count on the administrator report great started working for the ballot report I graduated from Plumasay University on May 19th and I started working on the 21st wow only two days alright congratulations thanks sorry have you attended many select board meetings in the valley this is my first more town one I'm supposed to have a face in one tomorrow night and then I went to the Harwood select board and that was riveting the Harwood school Chris used to come a little bit um and Lisa I haven't seen Lisa in a long time although she calls me so well the situation rather well doesn't tower yeah you never know what's going to come up with these meetings that's for sure so how can you listen to me now you said first I'm terribly sorry not to have made it tonight had it down to tomorrow night I thought Tom you handled it very in the situation very well Cheryl I couldn't make out names if you could send me the list of those who spoke and their associates uh listed who spoke I'll get a draft decision out tomorrow so that you can discuss it at your next meeting and then at that time you're probably revised or through or denied now ready thank you anything with your town administrative reports so I submitted a TA 65 which is the reimbursement for um what we've already spent the grant was 65,000 so we've already spent 34,000 so you have bids here later on I submitted for 34,953 rejected costs total cost of the whole thing was 7,395 um we got the grant for 65,076 which is 90 percent so the grant balance bottom line the grant balance that we have to spend is 30,833 so that's what these things got to be less than Martin estimated um when we did the grant Martin estimated the rest of the project as 19,258 to finish so if using closer assessments we should be okay it depends on what the other people think we have 10 percent match anyway if it comes in lower yes but it won't come in lower I can't see it coming in lower than that because we still provide 30,000 done alright so that's good and we'll open those up to new business later on you remember the accident in metal sex where there was a gas spill and a fireman did run out so um I contacted our insurance company and would pay for the claim it was 24,000 24,000 in uniforms and I went to the company the insurance company of the truckers and they gave us a check for the cost of the new uniforms um the in between my doing that and Steve ordering the uniforms he's changed tactics on me and the uniforms that he ordered were new tech gen 71 which are a different fabric I couldn't ask the insurance company to pay for an upgrade in our uniforms so the bottom line we are 24,069 dollars and 91 cents in lieu there is nothing in the fire station budget left to cover these uniforms so I approached Steve as such and the fire department it's the post to pay the town 24,069 dollars and 91 cents some of their funds they've raised did he understand the sole process and how that worked and how did this happen it's he should have told me and then we could have been prepared for this so he knew exactly what type of uniforms he was authorized to purchase the other hand they got the new gen tech which is better quality and 177 dollars each more so if they want to upgrade I think that's fine and they seem to be paying the tax so that's okay I could have had a couple more options I went directly to him first another option would be I have a grant approved by the local CT because I saw this coming on to pay 50% of that I don't plan on getting a grant and paying for half of that this is not coming out of town money it's coming after fire department money and they need to be accountable for what they get it's my view if you want me to change that I will but I don't think it's teaching them anything no and when I'm looking to teach them to understand that if they're going to upgrade it sounds like he's taking responsibility of it so I don't have an issue we just need to be more transparent about it I'm trying to well really I'm trying to it is and what do we call that but I understand we're just making them responsible for what they hesitate and said that they had money for it so I'm just letting you know that you're going to see that expenditure in their expenditures but when I get the check from him you'll have an offset when I suggest Tom anything like this happens in the future yeah okay they're paying for them but they should have let show know so that she didn't have to be stressed out over yeah she shouldn't in my nose I'm going to give Steve Paul just a and Steve's really good he's not trying to pull things with us but sometimes we just got to remind them that there's a process there's a proper well also that there's help available to try to buy things as cost effectively as possible and he may not know all of the sources exactly exactly you were there say you know I didn't get the ones the other ones he said that we're available so he got these other ones let me know but it's more we can help you rather than you're doing it wrong exactly we want to show absolutely just one more question so you said the original estimate was $75,000 for the whole whole phases right and the work we probably did was $40,000, $30,000 so that's the case there should be like $40,000 left I don't know how to come to the point you said when they had $19,000 left to do I'm not following how we get to $19,000 and the grant so the grant was $65,000 the grant is 90% of the cost yes which is $65,000 we had a bill before I believe that I submitted $34,000 to date for $34,000 which is 90% of Du Bois bill that was $38,000 something like that so I guess that's I'll just stop following the numbers here so $65,000 $34,000 $30,000 $881,000 why you hold that until we do the bits and once we do the bits and then we can do that now and go backwards with it I know exactly what you're thinking I just want to get that last number so we can plug it in and make it that's also why I asked what happened to Du Bois right so when we get those numbers right there you can get that so Cheryl you're all set with the county ministry report Ray do you have anything of course I looked at the development site and I have that for the business and she wasn't right when I looked at it and I did talk about we can do a little bit of vision up there to I think get rid of the water on our lawn we don't want to have a whole new ditch coming down out into the field but I think that we can solve the problem that our lawn would minimal work by the town to do that and I think that he did do it sometime this summer and he was going to talk to Deb directly about it perfect so Du Bois I'm going to indicate that to Deb we have discussed it so I think this kind of ties into grievance hearings but when I was getting home aunt stopped me her and his grandmother had gotten a letter from the town saying that they had more land than they didn't have and they had to bring a note into the town and what did I know about it and I had to be in by Friday so let me stop you right there that does go into grievance hearings so hold that story because we would be waiting for that there are several stories you might have to get it live alright yeah, if you have grievance hearings and a note so we can list Jason again no I don't Katrina does that have anything to do with that alright a few things that I have here that were under reports and communications and I hope I wasn't hearing this name but Katherine Friedman that's my neighbor alright was there a discussion here on the June 7 meeting no, she talked to me that's referring to talking to me yes so I told her to email me so I had something to give to you guys I guess several years ago you guys went up and dug out a ditch slash creek behind her house do you remember anyone you remember where is it south of the road so right above me so 1760 was that up there where George where George is to George's land there so she said that it had filled back in and she wanted your Martin to come look at it and so I stopped that email there to tell you about it alright so at some point can you get in touch with Martin and just check this out I'll give you the email so you don't forget and so the next this is from David Russo he would like to formally request to be conserved by a select work or reappointment to the development review board so Dave has been on I don't know what 3 years oh no he's been on for probably 8 years now has it been on? he's very good he's very eligible he's very polite so I'll make a motion that we appoint or reappoint David Russo to the development review board I'll second that any further discussions just a question has anyone else supplied for the slot and are there slots they're nothing else open now that's the only one I notified I notified I sent the notice of the board members to expire to John Riley so we'll apply for those is that something you were supposed to post in any way for reappointment if there was a holding position on there a new member would serve on there I don't think there's any call for reappointment for reappointment of someone who'd already been on there for that number of years I don't think it would be worth their while I'm just checking to see if there is a process there is a process it's always a good habit to put out there for the members that are and I sent that to John Riley to use it here for this position any other questions all in favor of we appoint Dave Russo to the DRB well I there we go I think it was the last term that we put it out there and all the board members could meet with them and talk to them then and I guess that's all I don't have anything in addition to that it's our old business and we'll come back and we'll do the invoices mold bits so I asked for three I got two and then I put them into this spreadsheet which is much easier to understand than reading like bits because they're each like 17 pages and then you ask for 2W salvage pure clean and surf pro and surf pro didn't elect to come visit and give us a little bit so there's some things you see that GW Savage is including in their bid that pure clean is not and vice versa I met with both of these people GW Savage is a worst case scenario he put in to remove the whole kitchen this is the only mold remediation it's not to rebuild anything either pure cleans is the minimum they're only planned to move remove up to the stoves so I think if you look at it GW Savage can't get worse but pure cleans can go up what was the actual request can we see at the RP the RP one I sent them the the the report report from them so it was their suggestions based on their reports based on their PD's air quality report this from me they were all giving them these specifications of these people and they they said they thought the whole kitchen needs to be pulled out when pure clean went and looked at it and he didn't feel it needed to happen and GW Savage said he would put it in there and then of course if they didn't the price would come down so he did worst case scenario so this looks to me that if I try to equalize the bids um no it's not that obvious did you no it's not like this so are you saying that pure cleans bid does not comply with K&D's recommendations you technically know it does not because they don't feel that it needs to well you can't you can't give them specifications this is their recommendation yeah but if K&D recommended that that's what the RFP should do that's what the RFP was yeah but if they didn't been on it if they made their own evaluation they came down and said well I think it's changing here I'm not going for you that's what they said Pearl Clean did it on their site visit GW Savage went by the RFP no GW Savage did a site visit yes they did do a site visit but I mean GW Savage's bid yes that's fine yes and theirs just includes more as well as you can see in the very first part they're gonna they are gonna be you know why Pure Clean is planning on negative air fan for 10 days and GW Savage for 3 um I spoke to GW Savage and they said 3 was the standard we asked them but Pure Clean I didn't get an answer as to why so if you look if you look at just line by line of the ones that they are they are very similar in price mm-hmm going back to Jason's question my guess is if you look on the bottom line GW Savage is gonna do an air and surface disinfectant which their company owns this system mm-hmm which is a foggy thing that will go through the whole building so if anything is disturbed afterwards oh and the other thing so the HEPA vacuuming where it says twice for one price GW Savage told me because theirs was double this so I said why is yours double what my other bids are what are you doing extra he said it was industry standard to do it first thing and then once they removed all the damaged materials to do it again but he said they would do that at one price you know they do it twice for the price of one for the actual bids handy exactly just one simple kind of warranties and it's like a warranty? I didn't see anything on these for warranties on the bids themselves for warranty really? because they don't do a warranty because I mean this water came from the foundation it could happen again you know I mean when you do a cleanup for a fire or something it would be a warranty or whatever you could have I can't see how they would do a warranty so does K and D come out in inspect? K and D comes out afterward and does another air quality yes and GW Savage doesn't have to pay their final bill until that happens purely did not say that I have a little clarification of 10 days of negative air 5 days duration for 2 machines yeah I was breaking it down by the days in no insurance the price no no no so this is the last square we need to spend the money there's no question that the building needs to be clean I think at Savage it seems like it's more complete I got a better feeling from him than the other guy this is my idea of paying for this I don't know how you feel about it but just in the town hall alone Joe Gabri is going to be like $4,000 unless the May we had to have parts to fix the supremacist before the state of Vermont would inspect the building that was $800 KD was $500 and now $8,600 so to pay it I would think about if I were you was adding it into the tax rate when you get to that time and stop and look what the state tax rate is going to be the town tax rate I think is going to be okay it would add a half a penny to the tax rate but we'll see or you have the capital you have the capital the capital reserve fund alright so we have a little time we'll see how the tax rate looks it's certainly a consideration yeah we don't have a grand list yet so I can't tell you what it looks like and of course I hadn't asked anybody for the cost to put it back together we don't know what's coming out yet but that's as soon as we know that we're going to want to hop on that because that might be something that we throw into the rate as well yes so if you approve this they'll make it be there next week yeah well I think we need to approve it we need to do it so the only question is do we go with Perkley or GW Savage based on your recommendations far as we've got to feel I think that and it just looks like maybe you've done this a little bit more I think the last in the air in service to disinfect well one thing they brought up was cleaning all the dishes if we were on Perkley how am I supposed to disinfect all those dishes I was like oh good call actually GW Savage actually takes them off site and watches the plates disinfects them and bring them back when they're done I'll make a motion that we hire GW Savage Kelly seconds any further questions all in favour of what I have hi thank you I know you're good you want to split the amount $8,602.12 if you want I can get one of those to send to you thank you Katrina the cabinets that were there no nothing has been touched so does it have to be removed before they can do their work yes that's included they're actually going to take the cabinets to their facility okay I'm sorry and then they will let us know if they can be saved before they do anything to them because they also will give us a bid for the rebuild this company is good my brother's house took all the stuff out it's amazing I've worked with them before good job so we made with the stuff that they are able to rebuild to put the minutes from May 21st, 2018 is there any other business is there any other business speaking of the town hall hanging books good so far what's going to be done with the cupola there seems to be a collaborative I've talked to him about that a couple of times it was to no fault of us he had a problem with his lift he planned to get it at one time someone else took it a whole lot I know the lift is gone now and that's how he reaches the cupola so I haven't asked him since then but I can get an answer for him but he doesn't do actual carving well the bid said top boards and so I sent him that would be included in fixing it so if something he said he would have to remove fix, pull back up because if he's going to paint it he should fix it so I don't know if it'll get done this year but he does know it's part of his contract this is the first time I've noticed the actual white clavoured with the hole in it I haven't noticed that before because the slats on that numbers are painted because I can tell it wasn't pressure water but he had the pressure water he didn't have it I think he did we talked about it oh that didn't seem to make much difference yeah and then it was like maybe two weeks before he got to paint more than just one section so I didn't see him with a bucket of bleach water too at one point when he was out from the left wiping and painting it didn't come off probably stick to it any other old business actually one more thing I have a new BLCT finally came out with their own social media policy which we literally just have to fill in our name so I just did that today so I'll email it all to you so it'll be super simple approved by our insurance alright now for approval for May 21st I move we approve the minutes about 5.21 any further discussion call in favor for Ryan alright moving on to new business let's call up here lovers lane fits why don't you go ahead and make a nose and then we have some math we want to figure out where the money is okay Katrina there's two bids that paper do you want me to grab it now no I've got it right here alright so we've got two bids the first one is DuPois construction I just want to be clear that I hadn't I didn't go to the site we need and I wasn't involved in this bid process at all for DuPois you want to put that in the list thank you alright so we have a bid from DuPois construction from 40,810 dollars Jeff Newton was the person that made this bid and it says slope stabilization in real work including guard rail as described by Martin Cameron on site meaning 523 18 first item here I'll say the guard rail it's going to be a scandal not like the one we have on the hill here standards are you don't like the one that's on the hill that's what we're using now if we want to be on time that takes a lot of time I think the one on the hill that style is because the snow goes under the hill is good the second bid is from Griffin and Griffin X the price $54,250 lump sum and stuff so $40,810 $40,000 $40,810 as opposed to $54,250 so so I got an email from Martin that said he has no preference as to which contractor is chosen he hopes to award awards what's the bid tonight and go with the low bidder well I'd like to go with the low bidder as well I guess the only reason I wasn't there at the site meeting so I'm assuming there's a slow stabilization slow stabilization and road work is the scope of work whereas Griffin's a bit more detailed I guess speak with Martin their scope is the same scope that we're talking about one thing we'll notice Griffin does have used garden rail does the DuPois bill have garden rail in it? it does not say it's a fairly generic the cheap, the lesser that's a dollar a real shiny stuff so let's just figure out the math of this project okay so the entire project was $73,095 that was the estimate that was the estimate that was estimated after DuPois stabilized the road and how much have we spent so far we have spent $38,000 anything else or it's just $38,000 DuPois was but it was $38,000 what you have left available in the grant is $30,833 now Martin estimated this work here when I did the grant he estimated this work as being $19,258 so there's your difference so that's what I did the $20,000 we don't have the RFP to take that sentiment we didn't have an RFP Martin any of this I have are any of the bits broken down for gravel and stone in every day we have gravel road 220 feet by one inch deep reused existing stone fill purchased the extra stone fill needed 190 by 10 by 2 inches so Martin estimated 3 to 5 inch stone on the outer banks we already have 4 to 5 inch stone tied into the river my estimates are 511 yards of 3 to 5 inch stone 3 to 5 inch stone 3 to 5 foot stone at $16 a yard so I don't know if they broke down any stone but that was the estimate was $19,258 that's what I'm on the grant for so we have $40,833 our loan bid is $40,008 right? $10,023 that's going to come out of our pocket unless I can talk I don't feel worried about this at all once again DuBois doesn't come back and spell out anything an RFP comes from the selected not the local one so bottom line I make a motion to throw these out what would you have another RFP? because I can't DuBois doesn't break anything down Griffin and Griffin says used used garbage okay you know so I mean I don't know what I don't know what the specifications were do we have the RFP? I don't have anything I didn't even know that we were asking for bid so you made a motion I made a motion I was surprised because we didn't even know the day we're due so there's been a motion made Jason for the discussion like I said I didn't know the meeting I know that Griffin and Jeff and my all met together and talked over the job I'm pretty sure they all agreed on quantities at that time at the meeting I'm sure that we could give you quantities and they'd probably be the same as Griffin and Griffin I personally I think to what John said I don't know if we need to throw out the bids at this point but I think we should get Martin in here to get clarification and then at that point we may decide these are bad bids and we can have it there's a few things that have gone wrong here the process although so I can't say anything I just don't know enough about but what I would like to do is get Martin here ask him and then we can make some decisions that's what I would do so I would ask everyone to defeat this motion by John I'll withdraw the motion you alright with that and why don't we get Martin second second and if we can get him he's supposed to be coming in the next meeting anyway about the the evaluation draft alright so why not put some extra time in there in the meantime let him know that we would like additional paperwork or backup on that and if I get it ahead of time he can send it out to us prior to the meeting that would be don't get me wrong John Martin does a great job and he should be involved in the process at the final decision I don't even have a problem with big that doesn't give detail as per the RFP they've seen the RFP let's just get it ready make sure we have it and one of these can shape things when we talk about it because it's got to be I got to see something so now we get to talk about what Cali brought up grievance hearings and I put that on the agenda for you so just so that you would know what they are doing grievance meetings this week Monday through Friday Friday maybe possibly Saturday so I Cheryl called me we were in a discussion last Thursday Wednesday or Thursday maybe where I guess the beginning of the week 600 letters have been sent out roughly 600 from the Listers stating that changes in appraisals or parcel sizes and I guess the phones have been crazy and you folks may you spoke to it at least you're on I think we've all had probably more than one call or personally you're feeling it so if anyone can make the meetings this week I don't know if it was personally involved but there's a schedule Wednesday, Thursday and Friday I think it's important just kind of sit in it goes from like 9 o'clock to 4 o'clock not a prayer I probably agreed to be on one, actually two what is Ray Monning he wasn't sure if it was 10 or 10 oh I don't know Ray Monning as long as John someone here likes to tell the way if they're Saturday let me know and I could sit on but I think it's important for this look where to get to show you what's going on it seems it may be more for this number to come back in grievance if you've sent out 600 how many we got back 30 I don't know that number I don't know if it's good or bad so if we can spend a little time in those small buildings to find out what are the mistakes I'm curious as to clarify or is it just plain shoddy work because remember we've paid a lot of good money to have these cats mad and stuff I don't know what I've had to agree on our land and mine took Sherilyn and I 10 minutes to prove it wrong it was following the deed back and we had a map so there's 80 or 81 hearings once the agreement has been approved so far do we have you know I was over 10% but I don't know what's the norm of the industry and it's got to be a norm but they usually get it done in one day on the grievances but also all of the Town of Moretown's properties change except for the Town Hall the size of the lots what yeah that's what mine was a lot sorry it's changed yeah all of Moretown's land Town of Moretown's land changed the library, the old Town Hall the fire department so have we as a town we have we have not we've looked for just today we were going through stuff to try to find we don't have maps of our land so we can't file an agreement if we have nothing to prove but I mean if I find an error I'm sure I just go back go back to them afterwards and they'll fix it but just on the face of it that sounds unlikely we have 11 letters yeah so that's from what I'm hearing the letters were dated in April and a lot of people didn't do until last week it wasn't dated did you bring yours with you what they said was the grand list as of April 2018 there was no date on the letter okay there's no date on the letter that they set out I've got a letter and I'm not even on the grand list I was only in my property so I've been there but they had very little time to file an agreement last week and they should not send out letters with no date letters went out not this past Friday the Friday before and you had to buy a Monday 3 o'clock today with your deadline these are the letters is this a computer generated thing they hand every single one of them this is one of our current use change so people are getting on the top of this town and more town knows of taxpayers as of April 1st 2018 so that again just the grand list that's when that is set what was this date stamp was it something that you received yeah I got it there's no date yes it's just not right no date of notice that's what on that last changes well that's my current use that's my brief is there a date on that down by your phone Tom? I'm looking it just says written appeals must be received at the town office by 3 p.m. 6.4 there was no send date that's not right so I've asked I'll put the listers on our next meeting as well but again if you guys have the opportunity to I know Tom you're going to go to a couple Cheryl and I plan to send them on some too so we can take notes is the due date statutory or is that something that we can change because I don't think this is it's very fair to mail out something at 5.25 and require written appeal by 6.4 that was a lot of the complaints the first thing that was out of people's mouths one the calls that I got um I don't know if it's statutory this is within our jurisdiction I would want to extend that date I know we cannot extend the date no we cannot extend the date once it's done that's what I know because I said the same thing when they were when they were mailing them out they were going to use the bulk rate that we use for our town reports and the post office told them that they could not guarantee people would get them within their 10 day window so they've got some sort of 10 day window they were working with so they actually bought stamps and put them on after I stamped them alright so we know so there's some 10 day window in there I'm not sure of that stuff it's just something we need to you know there's just not enough information right now to say anything you know if you get calls take good notes as far as what the problems are given the timing is there anything more that we can do because we're not going to meet again until this deadline is elapsed well that line was today I know that because I asked Sharon if they could they extend the deadline and she says no I thought it would start over again if they sent out new letters if they sent out new letters it would okay so let's see the possible solutions let's find out what kind of problems are there are these people being so at your meeting show you went in you show them 3 documents or whatever yeah I had copies I went in I had copies of a survey from 1915 and then I had surveys any time we gave to kiss a piece of land or anything we had a survey done did they say they had less properties yeah they were saying I had more they must have made some sort of map I had surveys of everything I did so Mike was very many of them so you went in and you said okay you want me to buy them we have 45 acres in this lot 95 acres in this lot and 125 acres in this lot which is 165.60 acres then I had the surveys taking them off, Sharon we gave her 10.10 acres Courtney 10 acres Noeyspot 9.72 Gary's sister got 1.52 and we sold Sanguinedi 10 acres so that left 124.28 acres but they told you you had 102 they told us we had yeah they told us we had 105 and it was 124.20 all right so you went back and you gave them this information where so they just gave you that acreage back where did it come from well who did they take it for someone else's that we had been mine is connected to my neighbor which is why I was up talking to her because when I was going through my beads our beads were actually intertwined the land was laid out different so when they gave me more they took it from her so by proving mine I'm proving hers proving her to less so then they have to send out more letters because those people's property is going to change again see they had my sister in law Susan at 1.4 and I had a survey in here that shows we gave her 1.52 so I told the listers that these surveys are in the vault I just made copies of them I just made copies of them so it will be interesting to see what everyone's come up with and we'll need to as far as you with the map there we've seen people that have lost we've seen people that have gained 50 acres Central Barrow has gained 22 acres we're probably lost so I don't know how much you lost I'd like to sell that new 50 then into the more tax telecoms so I just gained 2018 so there's an issue the select board is aware of it and we need to try to figure out what it is and I know mine was all there we just died wrong on the tax maps right so we need to find where these areas are coming from because if we spend 44,000 mine was a map too mine was laid off on a map in the vault and you got one but yours was only like I went from I had one acre and it went down to 0.97 now that you left it you left it like that and you didn't fix it you've got a non-conforming law that's true you have not one acre left to build or do anything, put on a porch put in a garage, anything but my deed says it measures out my deed is whenever it is 212 and a half feet square but that doesn't make a difference now because now your property tax map says less than an acre so if you're trying to build something you're doing on the DOB sorry you can't because you don't have that even though your deed says it the deed shouldn't cover you don't think so that's some of the you need to look at and I'm just curious about your mind that's what we want alright so wow I haven't said that in a long time well whoever got your land just bring it in and drop it off and I'm sure that they'll fix it for you Ray but that's not good to have a non-conforming law yeah I have one stinks and I made it to 0.97 alright so let's move along let's move along sorry 5 is there any other new business I've seen none we have some things to sign Cheryl can you just check in with Ron on the real compost appeal to the environmental court and I know you sent an article that was on Vermont Digger the legislature has changed so that really has taken care of that but they probably will just ignore what the court at this point it's really moot you saw that a more talented $100,000 yeah that was based on sludge remember that they took him back a few years I'm going to bring back up Facebook and social media at the next meeting because now there's a much more comprehensive social media policy you guys can look at and I'm going to send it to you ahead of time and we I think last week we weren't, we had wanted to wait a little time so I think you got some distraction there the social media policy you should have anyway the social media policy is for for for for for website, everything no I think that should be out that's a whole different subject than the Facebook right all right so we got some clean preference it looks like and everything winter maintenance to the town hall that's what she had talked about that's track seating and also that's what we've already basically done right that's what we've done, that's for next year you know that they for that amount of money they'll clean both furnaces then we'll end up with an $800 $900 bill again and the other stuff is still extended all right you done with me? we are Cheryl thank you very much for coming in thanks Rob was that it? was that the sledge, come on thank you John thanks for giving me the sign I'm going to have a a little more because we're all I just wanted to show you what Katrina put together for Shane and also the binder here the more to the track but agreement with the main society now there's everything there's a someone has a complaint if you fill it out they get a copy if there's another dog involved or animal they get a copy and the town can keep a copy as well so we'll have more and I have a whole box of those now I don't know just so there's we'll get a touch of him to make sure he uses it and I'll be the next we're getting that with a little kick in the butt sometimes he also has not built us for this quarter so Cheryl tell me to tell you that too alright ok do you want me to get this so you can read it so this company made it the disinfected thing and he bought it I met with the owner's son he came down and he thought it was such a great product he bought the company the window for the town was supposed to be a little bit tough I was supposed to be in this week but I got the window this morning thank you for coming tonight I appreciate it we'll be done in just a moment here we're just waiting to close out a couple signatures I'm going to motion John to close this up it's all in favor alright alright