 So, one thing that I notice about behavior modification and the cigarette's example comes to mind is there's the laws, right, and taxes that got passed, but there was also a change in social norms. It used to be that cigarette smoking was like really cool, and now it's really not cool, and perhaps we can be doing that for making the behaviors that we notice to be incredibly unhealthy just super not cool, right? Somehow you gain a lot of Instagram followers by posting your cool outfit every single day and like getting the hashtags right, and instead maybe we just make it not cool to care so much about what internet strangers think about your outfit or just not cool to be checking Twitter when you're in a place where you can instead be making eye contact and talking to strangers. I want some suggestions from you guys about how we can make those social norms in alignment with healthy uses of some of these technologies. Cool. I'll start. In the last 30 years, there have been four, count them, four cultural tectonic shifts in this country. Bicycle helmets and seatbelts, smoking in public places, drunk driving, condoms and bathrooms. Damn. 30 years ago. Those were, that's a good list. Condoms and bathrooms. Public bathrooms. Yeah. Yeah. And public bathrooms for sanitary purposes. Right. 30 years ago, if a legislator in a state house or Congress suggested any one of those, they'd been laughed at out of town, never would have gotten reelected. Today they're all facts of life. You see a guy on the street today smoking, you feel sorry for him, right? Okay. Your goal is shortly, maybe within the next five to ten years, you see a guy drinking a coke on the street, you're going to feel sorry for him. Okay. Well, good. All right. So the question is, how do you do that? And why does it take 25 years? Answer, you teach the children. You teach the children, it becomes inculcated in their ethos as to what is right and what is wrong. And then, guess what? They grow up and they vote. And all the people who are yelling nanny state and, you know, forget it, you know, forget about it. Okay. They're all dead. Okay. That's what it takes. And it takes a generation. So we, but we have to, but you have to start this at some time. Well, this technology thing, we're just like, we're not even, we're in the pre-contemplative stage. We're not even there yet. The weird thing though that's different is with all those other changes, the old people like didn't get the condoms or the seatbelts or the cigarettes or, right. And the young people saw the benefits of not getting HIV and not getting your brain splattered on the concrete. But now it's all the old people who see the problems with the technology that all those young people are using, right. And so there's that switch. And I wonder if that means that we need some different approach for creating social norms. Hey, also we don't have 20 years to get people unaddicted to Facebook. One last thing I'll say about that is I personally agree with you in the sense that I don't think the current or the old systems of educating people will be a fully selective effective solution because these technologies that we use actually are useful, whereas drunk driving and not wearing your seatbelt and smoking, none of those things are actually useful to your life. They're all expendable. You can get rid of them or change your behavior and make your life better, whereas with technology we're forced to use technology. So I personally abstain from all substances. I don't drink. I don't use any drugs. I don't even really take medication that much. However, I'm not able to avoid technology. It's just impossible, you know. So you can't educate people and tell them, oh, you know. You should know all the risks and benefits of using the internet to do your homework research for school projects because they're going to have to use it anyway, and even if you educate them, they're going to have to still exert their willpower to overcome the addictive things that have been built into those search engines that they use to find stuff. And how effective is that really going to be? It's kind of like if you tell everyone to wear seatbelts and cars and no cars have seatbelts. It's like, well, great. Thanks for letting me know, but it's not available. Yeah, but they don't have to use social media. I mean, technology is one thing. And I understand the importance and the amazing phenomena that can come from use of technology in the right way, like, for instance, those one-way apps. I'm talking about the two-way apps. You don't have to use Facebook. Nobody has to use Facebook. Facebook's a choice. The question is, why did you make that choice? And what's in it for you? And ultimately, is it short-term gain for long-term pain? And ultimately, that's a question that every addict has to address for themselves. Hi. I've enjoyed this so much. It's not normal. So I have to give out some awards. Best socks, best socks to you. Most patient. You're coming at the end. Most like Mr. Rogers of Neuroscience. Most like who I want my son to be, and most like Internet Dad. Okay, I don't know why those are the case. That's just the thing. I need to have some kids first. Oh, you want mine? I can't hold it. Maybe. I've never had anyone at any event do give awards. I know. Like, nobody cares what I think, and it's still. Now, Robert. Robert, right? Do you have any idea what the optics were like when, first of all, I claim no expertise. I have not at UCSF. I have not. I'm a parent. I've been marinating Neuroscience screens and many other issues that orbit around the ecosystem. Productivity. Charles Duhigg. Love. That's why it's weird that how interested I am in all of this. Yet, the optics of how important it was for you to get that data, that if you think about the value of the overall discussion and whether that was a net negative or net positive, I swear to God I have no judgment, but do you have any idea about what that looked like up on the panel while you were sitting with your esteemed colleagues? And I don't blame you, but it's consciousness. It was a long time. You were surfing the Internet. No, I wasn't. I was going through my PowerPoint trying to find the slide. Yeah, he found that slide. Wait, no, I get it. Okay, whatever you were doing. I wasn't using the Internet. I was using my PowerPoint that's on my iPad to find the right slide. Okay, you win. But the point is you were to head down on a device, searching for a data point, and I only ask if that's a net positive to the overall evening or a net negative. And I ask that with a parent mind. We do it. I do it. Okay? I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not literally, it's consciousness. My point is consciousness here. Simply that I come from the parent standpoint, I'm a parent. I'm teaching parents how to teach their children how to get their kids off screens, to have tech life balance, and then to teach them about focus, time management, and goal setting. Okay? Who the hell wants to do that? But I noticed it. The question, the question. The question is, is the role that consciousness plays in addressing the overall problem? I'm going to co-opt the question and say that it was a net negative, in my opinion, because humans mimic other humans, and when people start looking at their screens in a context like this, then other people also start looking at their screens, and they inherently become disconnected, because as you said, you're no longer looking eye to eye with the people on stage or the people around you. You're now in your own world where you're trying to find that thing. And finally, I've actually also seen that study, so I know exactly what all the data is. I definitely remembered that Grindr was the number one app on that. For what it's worth, I found it to be extremely positive and a really important point, but I would have said one augmentation would have been to just be like, I have to, I want to show you guys this really cool point, and I'm just going to quickly find it in my PowerPoint, and that's it. But I think it was really important to show us that going inward with those apps rather than going outward, that was a really good point. I knew, and I apologize. Denerate usage is a big thing that we teach kids. I really, truly, in all honesty, claim no moral superiority here. I do it all the time. I'm a parent, and my wife and kid hate when I do it, too, and I got it. I'm with you, and I knew I was doing it, and it still sucked, yeah, I know. Andrew? Yeah? I was here the whole time. Taking notes? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Actually, I would say, so do we know that, you know, now we know that you're taking notes, but actually, to look at you, would we know, right? So I, in my lab, right, we're, you know, we're neuroscientists. We work on laptops all the day, all day long, right? We have a lot of meetings where there's a no laptop pool. Not even because people aren't working, but because you don't know. You can't tell right away by looking, and so it's about creating the norm and the expectation and the feeling of respect for other people, and you know what I've learned to do? I take paper notes, and then I scan them into Evernote, which I love, you know? You can do that. You can do that. That's a good thing. That's a really good one. I just want, I'm an obsessive compulsive note taker, and so, for me, I enter into the meeting saying, is it okay if I take notes on my digital device? And so, yeah. So there's all these different ways, modalities of, of approaching this point. Yeah. Yes. New question. There's a, there's a lot of talk of regulations around the social media space. Sorry. What was that word? Sorry. Oh, regulations. Okay. Yeah. There's, there's talk of regulations in the social media space, and it's a few panelists, panelists actually mentioned a little bit on it today. I was wondering if anyone knew of any promising regulations that are worth, like, discussing that are, you know, there, there's some people that say no regulations at all. Some people say we need to, you know, people, we don't want to over-regulate, but what are some actual practical regulations that are worth discussing? Damn. Imagine if you could only use the Facebook for like an hour a day period, like it was just mandated. You had no other choice. Like, would you be more effective when you use the platform? Like, would you only go and post what you need and message who you need and be done with it? It's just interesting thoughts around regulation. You know, what, so many other things to regulate. What do you guys, have you guys heard of any regulations? Do you guys, can you creatively envision any interesting regulations? Can I, yeah, so I just want to put out one idea I think would, you know, be important to this unhealthy attention economy, which is data ownership. So one of the reasons why these companies are, you know, trying to capture your attention is so they can learn about you and build these unbelievably sophisticated profiles of you, which then they sell to advertisers, right? So that's kind of the linchpin of this whole economy. And right now, we have no rights to that data. We have no rights to even know what data there is. So GDPR is, I don't know all the ins and outs of it. It's a step towards that, but I don't, in my understanding, it's not, it doesn't go the whole way. I certainly, under GDPR, can't ask to see all my data and have it and then, you know, reclaim it or, you know, have the rights to it. It doesn't count as my property. I think that's a really interesting idea that we could explore regulatory. Yeah, it's your data. I mean, the fact that you've already went and built this amazing social network through the connections you've made throughout your life and you want to get this data in a way that's visualized in a beautiful way and parse it and make it relatable to you and make it easy for you to do what you want with it in the future. And you can't, you can't do that. It's a joke. It's the most valuable asset, one of the most valuable assets you have. And yeah. I actually am skeptical personally of how much knowing the data about you would really change your behavior and change your life. For example, recently iOS 12, Apple rolled out a feature called Screen Time that lets you see how much you're using certain types of apps on your phones. And actually before that, I'd been tracking my own internet usage extremely carefully in very minor detail for the last nine months. And I must say that for me personally, it's really had no impact whatsoever on my own behavior because these passive dopamine have already been created and it's not like knowing that it's happening is really going to help you overcome that. What you really actually need is a way to substitute that wiring in your brain, that expectation of dopamine with something else that is hopefully healthier or somehow. There's nothing that's going to substitute in your brain for dopamine. Yeah. It's a core part of how your neural wiring works. Every action you take is motivated by dopamine. Everything in life you find rewarding is motivated at some level by dopamine. Oh, I know, but I'm just saying. Will, here might be an interesting way for you to potentially explore a process like this. It would be doing something. I came back from my fourth 10 day meditation retreat. There's no technology. There's no eye contact. There's no talking. And when you're there, all you're doing is you're going inward and you're meditating and you're reclaiming your mind from the obsessive monkey mind thought patterns that it has. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. And so and so now think think about this. Is that potentially a way to change the neural architecture of your mind for the better to go 10 days without using the technology? Because the creative thoughts that I had in this last 10 day experience were some of the best creative thoughts I've ever had in my life. And I was able to redirect myself with my attention in a really positive way moving forward. And I figured out who I should be talking to and who I should stop talking to. So I think about it like genetic expressions of connections that I don't I want to open up expressions and turn off certain expressions. I did that too. Wasn't effective because I've grown up with this. And it's wired my brain from an extremely early age in a way that would take a lot longer than 10 days to overcome. You've been to a 10 day meditation retreat? But how many days have you went at a time? This is not about regulation. This is about what individuals can do. In my book, I basically say there are three things that ultimately have to come of this. You have to up your serotonin. You have to tamp down your dopamine. You have to reduce your cortisol, which is a stress hormone that actually makes your prefrontal cortex fry. Now, there are four things that I know of. They're all evidence-based. They're all clinically proven to be effective or your money back. But none of them cost anything, so don't expect a refund. I call them the four C's, and I'll do them real fast. Connect, and that does not mean Facebook. Contribute, and that does not mean to your IRA. Cope, and that sleep, mindfulness, and exercise. Sleep, because lack of sleep fries your prefrontal cortex. Mindfulness is exercising your prefrontal cortex. And it turns out exercise alleviates depression all by itself. And if you do mindfulness, plus exercise, you reverse depression with no meds. Huh? Inside. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, inside exercise, fine. Sure, with a HEPA filter. And number four, cook, because there are three items in food that matter. Tryptophan, precursor to serotonin, found in eggs, poultry, fish, not exactly processed food. Omega-3 fatty acids, which are anti-inflammatory, and cause, when you have them in enough of them, you get improved neurotransmission, especially in serotonin. And finally, sugar, which ups dopamine, tamps down serotonin. So, a high sugar, low omega-3 low tryptophan diet, that's called process food. A low sugar, high omega-3, high tryptophan diet, that's called real food. So, cook is number four. And self-regulating yourself for these four Cs. Yeah. Now, those are things that you can do right now to improve your life. The question is, what if you can't? That's where society has to help you. That's what society is about. And that's why we have a society, is to help you do the things you can't do yourself. Just one fun regulation idea that I haven't seen anywhere, but I don't think that smartphone interfaces should, by default, present a vending machine of corporate logos. I think Twitter and some other apps come install default on the iPhone. And Android handsets have various partnerships, but yeah, that's wild. If you have an Android phone, download Ciempo and give it a go because the home screen for Ciempo is no, there's no vending machine of corporate logos. It is just a bar that you get to write an intention into what you want out of the day. And so I write hope or love or consciousness or coherence or whatever there, and it changes everything because when you unlock your phone, there's no apps. So you're like, oh, what am I on my, never mind. That happens to me a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That is the thing you see 100, 200 times a day. Yeah. That's the most valuable real estate on the planet. Is your home screen on your cell phone? Right. And what if it were designed to promote corporate logos? Tristan Harris taught me this trick. What is that? Three clicks and you get black and white. Three clicks and you get black and white. What tool, now it's an entertainment. Interesting. That's a pretty good, that's interesting. I bet that's entertainment versus tool by going to black and white. So yeah, I mean, I focus on individual interventions in most of my work, but I think it's really important that we be thinking that both of the, you know, things on both sides are necessary, right? So with tobacco, we need tobacco treatment, tobacco smoking, cessation programs, right? But we really, really did need the tobacco industry to be regulated. And they knew for many, many years they were producing a product that was unhealthy. And I think that we could potentially take the same public health approach to technology companies, especially social media companies, gaming companies, that if they know they're producing a product that is detrimental to mental health, that's harmful to mental health, that we actually obligate those companies to act on that information and to change their products so that's no longer the case and maybe require them to do that research the same way we require the products that are brought on the market for physical consumption be considered safe. Joe had this really interesting point on the phone call we had just yesterday where you said that so many people can enjoy a single glass of wine and there's so many alcoholics and then there's so many people that are social media addicts. But what do we classify as the person that can just go in, tap in, get what they need, just the glass of wine for social media. Right, how do we set up our society, so our systems, our institutions, and our social norms and our individual habits and behaviors together so that we can kind of enjoy a good glass of chianti with dinner and not be going on a bender, like as you put it. One interesting distinction actually, I interviewed a psychologist recently and in her opinion, she believes that a larger percentage of the population is liable to become addicted to variable reward behaviors versus chemical dependency because chemical dependency has a stronger genetic component than variable rewards. Variable rewards are just rewiring the brain connections that you already have and basically everyone has. So a larger percentage of the population can kind of fall victim to that given the right circumstances versus enjoying a glass of wine versus becoming an alcoholic. Yeah, yeah. Hey, thank you so much. This has been really fascinating. I want to go back to that question of consciousness and direction of attention. There's been, there's like a circularity that I've been struggling with. I guess it's a little philosophical, but I'm interested in hearing you all ruminate on it a little bit. I guess the argument is that technology is distracting us from our goals. It's where I think the phrase was surrendering, surrendering our senses to this external force and that this is dangerous, this is harmful. But if you think about, you know, how do we set goals originally? Are we born with genetic goals built in? I don't think so. I think we set goals by opening up our senses, by playing and by deciding these are things I want more of, these are things I want less of. So in some ways, starting our senses is necessary to the generation of goals in the first place. So how do we deal with this circularity and what's wrong in certain types of surrender, but what's right in others? Good morning to me. So I would say, so firstly, I mean, we do have certain, we are born with certain goals. We are genetically, through evolution, our survival depended on us being really interested in feeding, fighting, other things, the start of death. And so that's part of what we start out with. And we also, as you say, as we learn from each other, we kind of, we're socialized and then we do our own reflection. So, I mean, the thing that I really think about in terms of attention is that in a certain way, just like previously, we didn't have refined sugar. So we didn't really have to, in previous generations, obesity wasn't a problem. It was desirable. It was attractive. It was a sign of wealth, right? It's only in the 20th century when we have this abundance of food and we have every kind of food under the sun that we have to think the opposite way, working out, we didn't used to work out. That used to be a ridiculous idea. The idea that you'd voluntarily exhaust yourself physically when life was already hard enough, right? But now that we have so much convenience, we have sedentary lives. So the same thing is happening with attention. So we used to be able, we didn't used to have these demands on our attention scattering it, right? So we're not going back. So we're gonna live in a world where we can't take attention for granted. We can't take our own attention for granted. And so we need to be thinking consciously, how do we learn to be conscious about where we put our attention and what we bring in? And I think in my experience, my own meditation practice and the teachings in meditation traditions have been extraordinarily helpful for me in thinking about that. I just got back from a contemplative science research conference this weekend. And a lot of our conversation is about how do we bring these teachings into secular settings where they're really accessible and translate them and disseminate them widely. So that would be my thought. We can't take our attention for granted anymore. I'd like to add one thing. Okay, go ahead and add one thing. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, so thank you for your response. I'm also thinking in particular in childhood where play is, and there's the development of the childhood in the 50s and sort of onward. There's been so much thought about what is good play and what is bad play. So I think for a long time, our attention has been sort of controlled or guided by external forces. So I guess in particular, I'm interested in what qualities of those forces are good and bad. I'll let that, maybe the pediatrician. Yeah, huh? Robert, thoughts? I'm not going to be able to tell you what's good play or bad play, other than play is good. That's what I can say. And the reason is because, number one, it's imagination. Number two, it's determining consequences of actions. And that is what your prefrontal cortex does. It's part of your brain right behind your forehead, okay? The Jiminy Cricket part of your brain, the part of your brain that keeps you from doing stupid things, okay? That requires exercise. And that's what mindfulness is, we were talking about it before, is exercising your prefrontal cortex. Ultimately, sometimes you need to exercise it so much that you're actively doing nothing. You know how hard it is to actively do nothing? It's amazing. Squelch all of the running thoughts across your brain. The better you can do that, the more in tune you are and the more thoughtful you are, the more intellectually curious you are and the less susceptible to fake news you are, by the way. And there's real, honest to goodness, hardwired FMRI data on that. So where do you teach that? Where do you learn that? Well, parents can certainly start it, okay? It's also something you learn in class. You learn in school. You learn it in science. You learn how to critically think because that is your prefrontal cortex, is how to critically think. And right now, we're not critically thinking. We are distracted. When you're distracted, you can't think. And just to take this in a somewhat philosophical direction as you put the space there for that show. I just finished reading a book recently called Gulag by Ann Appabomb on the concentration camps in Stalin's and pre-Stalin USSR. I can see Alan's wondering how in the world am I going to relate this back here, right? But I think the big answer to this question about how to set goals and what goals we have as humans is freedom. And a lot of what technology enables us to do, the technology gives us, is more degrees of that freedom. And as innovators, as people who think deeply on this subject, it's our role and to some sense our duty and our responsibility to help create even more degrees of freedom for those people who are looking for passionate and wonderful and fulfilling ways to live fuller and more meaningful lives. Before we move on to the next question, I'm actually, you asked about how children set their goals to and how they want, they formulate what they want to do when they grow up. I think when, you know, historically for basically all of human history, children did that by watching the people around them and emulating the goals that the social group that they were a part of also had. And that's why you had kids 50 years ago saying that they want to be a police officer or a fireman or a lawyer or a congressperson, because that was what the people around them, hey, I've heard kids say that before. But anyway, so, you know, it's what the goals, it's what the objectives of their, their parents and their peers and their teachers and other little children around them had. Nowadays, people are no longer focusing on the people around them, they're focusing on this really abstract concept of the internet where they're seeing all these different images of people and images of things that aren't people and it's kind of all over the map. And I can see why children have a much harder time answering the question, what do you want to be when you grow up? Because they don't really have any metric to kind of like figure out what they actually want to do by they're just getting directed in 10 different directions all the time by the media they consume through. Maybe that's a good thing, right? Maybe there's so many more ways that they can go in life that they're not, they're not just seeing, you know, the firemen and that's all they think about or, you know, the, the astronaut and that's all they think about. But they're seeing so many other possibilities because of the amount of signal and noise that they're exposed to that, that maybe it's a good thing that they say, well, what do you want to be? Well, I don't know. Because in all honesty, that is the much more honest answer. You know, how many kids do they, you know, go up and say, oh, I want to be a tax accountant? You know, not too many, right? But how many of them are actually going to grow up to be tax accountants versus astronauts? Right? So maybe it's a, it's, it's a, it's a wonderful and honest moment that we're now seeing from our children that they're willing to do this. And by the way. I know I feel defeated. Next question. At a conference, at a conference last week. They're from the same company, no less. Someone in trouble with the answer. Transformative technology conference. Yeah, people here were attending. Someone said that the answer to that question we want to be when you're up. Most popular answer is an Instagram influencer. And then a year ago, I was just about to say that when he was giving his, when he was giving his list, I thought that was going to be the answer famous was I thought was good. Yeah. And another source, I think it might have been the screenagers documentary, which is fantastic, especially if you're interested in the children. What document screenagers screenagers screenagers. It's really good. They have lots of showings around the Bay Area. I think the answer in Silicon Valley was to be a venture capitalist. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's interesting for sure. Watching two years, I bet the kids are going to say they want to be a TikTok influencer. Thank you. So just on one more question and just to say on the skill, I think of the next decade to develop is that silence is that ability to completely take the thoughts that are going and just think I'm in control. I'm focusing on my breath and what that does for you over time is you'll see in your relationships and in your work and in everything else you do. One more question. I have something like a game that I'd like the panelists to play if they want. Oh my gosh, the awards, the game. It's also a question. Is there an app on your phone that you can show us right now that would be extremely painful for you to delete right now, which you can just do right now and make your life better? And you can make me start if you like. Interesting. An app on the phone to delete. Yeah, to delete like right now. Interesting. I have an answer to this question that actually changed recently because I did that multi-day kind of like meditation retreat and one thing that I was super nervous about was driving into the wilderness without Google Maps. It turns out if you don't have Google Maps on your phone, there's all these things called street signs that like tell you exactly where you are whenever you're driving and you don't realize them when you use Google Maps because you're just looking at your phone all the time and listening for the phone with and not actually scanning your surroundings to see like where you are. So it turns out that navigating without Google Maps was extremely easy. And yet if you asked me that two months ago, I would have probably thought it was impossible. God forbid you stop at a local gas station to ask for directions. Yeah. That's a good question. Do you guys have answers to that? Yeah. Notes, cloud sync notes. I think it's the most utility I get from a smartphone, which is that I can jot down any nuggets of wisdom, recommendations, thoughts, and they're synced across my devices. Yeah. And that's like a backup brain on my. The question was about deletion. So like, what's an app on your phone that you would delete, like that you would want to delete right now? Oh, I thought it was what we wouldn't want to delete. If you don't want to delete it, that might be the one that you want to delete. Right. That's the one I do not want to delete. What should you delete? Oh. Yeah. I'll go with Google Maps. I'll just do that right now and I'll see where my life is. And this is a good point. It's a quantified self experience in general. Just at least go for a day without talking. Go for a day without touching your phone. Go for a day and set yourself up so that your loved ones know that even they can't mess with you. Phone free day. Yeah. And experience these things for yourself and see what it feels like. In Judaism, it's called Shabbat. And that's what it was for, is for resetting. The app I would lose, text messaging. I'd be delighted to lose text messaging. You can delete it. Yeah, my wife. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Also, I'm actually not sure iOS lets you delete it to be completely honest. All right. Last, just to take the question and actually send it in a direction that you all might be interested in. There is an app called We Croak. It's now the first app on my phone. It sends you five times a day. It sends you a quote about death. And you read the quote, and this is a practice, I believe, of Taoist practice, which is that the more times that you contemplate death every single day, the more happy and present you are in the moment. So I highly recommend We Croak. It's some 99 cents on Android and iOS. I get no cut. That's the beauty of things, right? Yeah, that's the beauty of things. Wow, this has been really helpful and really enlightening. There's this very fascinating thing that happened when we said that we were putting together a social media and attention economy event, which was that all these professors and researchers and entrepreneurs that are focused in this space replied to us saying that, oh, whoa. They were shocked that we could do events around this theme. And it requires people to practice making events around pressing themes like this. And if you're in a field that has pressing themes, ethical or moral themes, go and make events, reach out to people that are of clout in those fields that have good things to share and host events about them, because we're going to be doing this more often, because this is a very pressing and nuanced discussion. And I want to thank everyone for coming out. Thank you so much for coming out. Everyone in audience, our panel, thank you so much. There's just a couple of things that we probably need to say. One of the things is that a good way to, when's the next civility and how can people get involved? We have civility discussions all the time. We have a couple coming up this weekend. The brilliance of it is that whatever topic anybody is interested in, including this topic, you can sign up for it and you can see what discussions are coming up or start your own if you're interested in this topic. And we help coordinate the people and promote the discussion and everything and people can come together to actually have always an in-person, face-to-face discussion in a small group of six and always a stimulating, intellectually engaging discussion. So that to me was a very important part of fulfilling that sense that one gets in college of being able to have these sorts of things and what we're having up here on this stage, really bringing that to all of us in a very big and scalable way. So that's my contribution to changing this situation we're stuck in. That's civility.social and you can find all of the information there. We're simulationseries.com. Our next upcoming event is with Adam Gazzelli on December 14th at WorkWise as well. We're really looking forward to that on the cognition crisis. So we'll actually be touching a lot of similar subjects that we touched about today. And besides that, you know how important it is to build the future. Go and manifest your destiny into the world. Go and execute. Go build. Go create. We love you so much. Thank you for coming out.