 Thursday, Community Matters, I'm Jay Fidel here on Think Tech. We have my old friend, Hema Kubero Del Barrio, I said that right. Yes, wonderful. I am so nice to see you. You have some practice now, huh? And we have your friend and collaborator, Florence Johnny Frisbee. Hi Florence Johnny. Let's call you Johnny. Oh, good. Yeah, well, that's my name. Okay, but that's not your full name. What is your full name? Florence, Natokorua Johnny Frisbee. Natokorua is my mother's name, and it means in memory of two. So tell us a little about yourself, Johnny. You were born and raised on Puka Puka, the island of Puka Puka? No, I was born in Tahiti. In Tahiti? Yes, and arrived on Puka Puka when I was a year and a half, two years, and grew up there until I was twelve. When my mother passed away, my father decided to take us, introduce us to other places in the world, at all, in big cities. And you moved to an island that was very small, just you and your immediate family. Yes, we moved. Actually, we boarded a boat, a school, heading to the Kuka Rarotonga, and he stopped off at many other little island's atolls. And when we arrived on Suvaru, it's very, it's sort of uninhabited. There were two New Zealanders there who were coastwatchers, and two Manihiki men to help them survive. New Zealanders, they didn't know how to climb coconut trees, they didn't know how to scale fish, that sort of thing. And we loved this island, it was just a lot of birds and coconut crab, lots of food you didn't worry about. The sweet life. Yes. And my father said, oh, we're going to stay here, you know, so we did. We got off the boat and filled ourselves a hut, and we had a bush knife, so was able to survive with the bush knife to cut down and crack coconuts, and it was a wonderful life. But you left there after a while, where did you go? Well, after, we were there when the 1942 hurricane, it was one of the worst ever to hit that part of the world, visited Suvaru, and it was horrendous. And we only survived because our father tied us to a common tree. Otherwise, you would have been swept away. Oh, yes, it's a way, huge waves were coming from the ocean, and then also from the lagoon and would meet in the middle, you know, this boom crack. I wonder how that island is doing now with sea-divers and flies. Oh, beautifully, yes, I've been practicing. Yes. It was a visit after the hurricane, yes. So you feel the same way about these places today? Which places? Those places? The places you grew up in. Oh, absolutely. Well, yes, emotionally tied to those places, and it has lots of memories with being with the family. For sure. So you guys collaborated on the movie we're going to talk about, our atoll speaks, and the atoll in question is not the small island, it's Puka Puka. Yeah, Puka Puka. So it's a study of Puka Puka, we'll talk about that, but my question is how did you collaborate, how did you collaborate? Ask, Emma. So I met Johnny like eight years ago because I started a film titled Homecoming and about the life of Johnny, the film is actually about the life of Johnny Frisbee, so she will go in depth into what she just told you, and also the life of Amelia Borowski, who is the daughter of an anthropologist, Robert Borowski, that was taken there when she was one year old. You're going to bring Amelia around one of these days? Yeah, but she has two young babies and she just couldn't do it. But she was the reason why I ever heard about Puka Puka, and then Amelia read Johnny Frisbee's book that she wrote when she was 15, well, 12, 13, 14. She was published when you were 15, Johnny. Yeah, I was 15. So it's titled Miss Ulysses from Puka Puka, and Amelia had a lot of memories about Puka Puka because she lived there the first five years of her life, but when she read Johnny Frisbee I was living with her and she said, oh my God, this place I was in my memories and imagination is real, I need to get back. So Johnny was a catalyst for her to go back, and I didn't think I was going to make this film, but then once I got to know more about the place and I met Johnny, I realized we couldn't bark on a film and go back to Puka Puka. Johnny, you had not been there in many decades, right, 30 years or so? Yeah. 1994. And that is all an adventure, you know, we've been working on that. So in 2017, I knew, in 2015 we went to Puka Puka and we filmed, and then in 2017 I knew that I needed to go back and get more footage, and we got a small grant from the United Nations in the Cook Islands that would allow me to go back and film, and they wanted me to do something around climate change. And that's how this film emerged. It was never going to happen, but it happened because of these other films. So it's like two films going on at the same time. Life is like that, isn't it? It is surprising. I mean, it's just amazing the way things work, you know, you go from Puka Puka to an island the size of a ball field, you don't get swept away in the great storm of 1942, there were other storms too going on in the world, you didn't get swept away by that either. And then years later, a lifetime later, you meet Hema. And then we sit here. Yeah, and here we are. It's that simple. Hema, the product of Spain. Who goes there? You know, Johnny briefly told me recently, Hema, check your genealogy, because maybe the Spaniards actually passed through Puka Puka before the British. So I'm going to check my genealogy. I would have never been able to go to Puka Puka if it wasn't because I met Amelia and then I met Johnny. And it's a place, Puka Puka is a place that is outside of the tourist circle. So you can only go there if you have somebody that they really trust. And it's really changed my life in many ways. And this film, what I want to emphasize is that we really did it with entire island. So I've interviewed so many people that what we did when I came back is we looked at the transcripts of all those interviews and selected the words that were about climate change and conservation. And then we got together with Amelia and Johnny. She's an amazing writer. And we shaped the narrative to be like a poem, like a film poem. And everybody added their magic. And then we decided that Johnny, who is the only Puka Puka woman living in Hawaii, I thought like, well, this beautiful voice list. Have her do the narration, which is, to me is the voice of the people. You're the voice of the film, of the people. And you're a poet. Okay, let's look at some pictures, okay? And then we come back and drill down. So the first thing is we'll take the trailer. Let's see the trailer of the atolls. Our atoll speaks. We are the children of the Ulu Ote Watu. How long can we call Puka Puka the island home? Climate change is the biggest threat to our existence. Our atoll speaks. Kotala talama yuki tomato inua. So beautiful. Was it hard to find that beauty? Did you have to search around for those shots? No, it's everywhere. The sharks are pretty harmless there. The sharks. What do you say, sharks? Yeah, we used to swim with them. Oh, the sharks. I'm talking about the movie shots. Oh, sharks. We have shots of sharks. You know, Puka Puka is so beautiful. The beauty is everywhere. I mean, the beauty of cinema is how you put it together, how you edit it, what music you choose, how the pace and the tone. By the beauty, it's just everywhere. It really is. You think the title, looking at it now, after you've premiered at the Hawaii International Film Festival, you think the title, Our atoll speaks, is a good title? Why did you pick that? I mean, why did you pick that particular title? Is it a correct title now? I really think it is. Actually, that title emerged from our sharing, right? I think it wasn't you that said Our atoll speaks. The essence of the piece for us is that the island is the protagonist. And we're not used to the word atoll, but it's a reality, you know? And the atoll is like what the film is doing, is asking people to listen, you know? And we don't have to go too far. It's just listen to the surroundings, listen to nature, learn from your environment. It was really important for us to add the Puka Puka language. So that's what we added in the translation. Can you say hello to me in Puka Puka? I knew you'd say that. So Puka Puka, you know, is... It's actually Puka Puka is how are you? It's no hello, it's such a... But what's unique about Puka Puka, so many things are unique about Puka Puka, and the language is they have their own language. They're part of the Puka Islands, but they have their own language. It's remarkable, isn't it? So that was a statement also to put the language there. At least a little bit so you can hear it and you can hear the beauty of the language. Well, you know, the story of the making of the film is really interesting. I mean, you sort of float into it, your life float into it and your lives float into it together. And here we are with this marvelous film. I have a place that is, you know, under attack by climate and modern society also. And, you know, I think I wanted to ask... We spoke about this before, but I didn't catch it. The nuance is the atoll speaks, but in order to know what it speaks, you've got to listen. So it's a frame of mind. You have to have a frame of mind to hear what it speaks. So what is it saying? What did you intend it to say? Let's talk to, you know, the voice here. Well, I think of it this way. The film shows the people doing different things, many, many different things. And much of it is very unique, because Book of Cooker is isolated. It's one of 15 islands in the Cooker Islands, and it's very unique because it's so far away from all the other islands. So the language survived, you know, the culture, the chanting, the way they catch fish and cook fish are quite different. And so atoll speaks represents all of these things that are very unique. It's a microcosm of humanity, isn't it? If you strip away a lot of the trouble and the complications of the western and eastern world, you get right down to basics, you know, who are we as a species? How do we do when faced directly with nature? A kind nature, but nevertheless nature. Yeah, and I think one of the reasons that I'm so proud of that our island councilors have decided upon a decision that no other people from western countries could come and live there. They can visit but not live there, and that has helped greatly, you know, for the Book of Cooker to retain the custom and be themselves, because it does work. People from other countries, especially western countries, do demand a certain, you know, certain attention. You don't have to be overrun, either. No. We have wonderful schools. Our students, you know, learn lessons that would enable them to live in New Zealand at end universities, you know, but it's taught in a way that fits there who they are in another world. It strikes me, Hemma, that you lived there. You completely embedded yourself there. Yeah, the first time we went, we were there for like seven weeks, the first time. Oh, seven weeks, yeah. And then the second trip, it was closer to six months. And the first time that I went, I got a taste of it. And I was like, oh my god. I was making this film about these two women who were super powerful. They're better than cheesecake. So you may have moved about cheesecake before you know that. Puka Puka is incredible. So I was like overtaken by everything. And then I realized, I cannot do justice to this film if I'm not really there. What did you want to say? What did you want the atoll to speak to us? To say that we Puka Puka people have is an incredible society that is run outside of the capitalist system that is highly structured. And they have a lot of wisdom about how they use, how they are respecting the ocean and the sea and the land and how they use their resources. And my feeling was like, they have so much to show us that we could actually benefit from. Now, Puka Puka is its own universe, right? And the people watching might be living in Chicago, in Shanghai, in Honolulu in a very completely different environment. But what we wanted to do is give an option that life can be different, that you can live a different kind of life. And if you cannot be in Puka Puka, you can learn something from them. We want to do an impact education campaign and take the film to communities and not just indigenous communities, but communities and schools. And we are going to design a conservation pledge, meaning that when you watch a film, hopefully you are overtaken by its beauty and its power. And then you can look at your environment and say, like, what can I do? So it's a very small place in the world, but there's nothing small about it. Well, it's the microcosm of humanity is what it is. It's a laboratory, a study, an exquisite experiment. I mean, a life-long experiment, more than that, a millennia-long experiment. When I went there, I knew that Johnny and Amelia had been... The only thing I knew about Puka Puka is that their life had been completely marked by display. When I got there and then I lived there, I was like, this is a main character. These women are who they are because of another experience. Did you were able to convey all of that in the film? So I'm talking about two films. Arato speaks more about conservation and climate change and what Johnny said. And also what Johnny said, you just see them doing things. It's not like, oh, they're very pragmatic. It's like you have to provide how they do it. This civilization you're talking about, this culture is different than other cultures in the Pacific Islands. Yes, it is. How can I answer that? Well, they're just so unaffected. Very little. They're so far away from all the other islands. They're almost as natural as you can imagine. They're kind-nanced, they're humorous. They're not concerned about laughing out loud anywhere, whoever is around, eating with their fingers and enjoying the fish bone. And just taking care of children and older, the old people. Well, when I grew up there, they would all in the, before sunset, they would all gather on the beach, take their clothes off, and they walk slowly into the lagoon and swim up to their neck and talk and catch up. This is better than Michner. I knew Michner very well. Did you? Yes, he's written about our family in his book. He was your mentor? Yeah, he was my mentor. He helped bring me to Hawaii in 1950. My father had written lots and lots and lots and lots of books. One of them is the Book of Pooka Pooka, and he also wrote for the Atlantic Monthly all about Pooka Pooka, series of... He was also in love with Pooka Pooka? Yes, he was in love with my mother. Are you kidding? We have to have another show with you. Yes, definitely. That's really tantalizing. So let's talk about, you know, your success in this movie. How long is it, what does it look like sort of in a start to finish, what am I going to see in this movie? So you're going to learn about, of course, Pooka Pooka, about their origins, about their myth of Mata Aliki. You're going to learn about how it's a communal society and how they run and what they do. You're going to see tremendous beauty and how the wisdom, the knowledge is passed from generations to generations. And then at the end it was very intentional to invite everybody to really hear about climate change and go, you know, it's like there's a cry for, you know, like a call to really listen and respect nature. It's a 14-minute film, but the intention is that you go... How many minutes? 14 minutes. And then what we did is I included everybody that was part of the film, but also all the 40, 450 people in the atoll. So that was very intentional that not only Johnny would be the communal voice of the people, but that people would be able to see their names in the credits. So it's really a communal... That's why I'm so proud of it. And it's also, you know, people, critics are talking about it like it's a meditation, which makes me really happy because you don't have any control of how people are going to take the film. But I think it's not a film about creating fear. It's a film about, like, enticing you to see something really pristine and beautiful, and maybe you can apply a few things, you know, into your life. Yeah. Yeah. Introspective. What a fabulous topic. So, okay, so now you want this film to get into the Hawaii International Film Festival. You want to share this with the world. You want to share pukapuka with the world. Definitely. You want to share that sense of community caring with the world. So how does that work? What's the experience like to get a movie into the Hawaii International Film Festival? Well, I love the Hawaii International Film Festival. Before we came here, intentionally, we showed the film in pukapuka, and we went to New Zealand because New Zealand and pukapuka are really connected. Yeah. Every pukapuka has a New Zealand passport. So, and coming to Hawaii, I mean, Hawaii's our home. Johnny lives here, Amelia lives here. I also consider Hawaii my home. It's a Polynesian culture. So it was very intentional to premiere here. So people will understand. We'll have some kind of connection, you know. And it was fabulous. I love the festival, you know. We had two screenings, and it was sold out. They have to be selected. Yeah, definitely. Why do you think they selected our atoll speaks for the festival? Well, I mean, I have a really good relationship with them, but it's a merit of the film. What was your earlier film, the cheesecake film? Yeah, everybody came premiere there. And I just love their taste. You know, there is a festival that cares deeply about the Pacific, about new ways of storytelling. And so that was very intentional. And then, you know, they put us in the Pacifica showcase, not in the Made in Hawaii, because this is a film about pukapuka, you know. And we had a sold out two sold out screenings. Something funny happened on the first one. There was like an evacuation alarm, like somehow it was funny. I want to tell the story because it's really funny. Watching the film, everybody's super hooked. And then it's like, please, please leave, evacuate, evacuate. People were not moving. I think they were so hooked on the movie. The third time, then some people started to leave and then they said right away, it's false. It's a false evacuation. So everybody came back and sat. But people were really hooked. What I will always remember is that, wow, you know, they were really into it. So why did people come in? You filled the house in the HIFF. You sold out. Yeah. Why did people come? Was it a matter of how you promoted it? Or was it a matter of people, you know, being touched by a need to meet people from pukapuka, meet people like Johnny to engage and find out what makes you tick? Oh, my God. Thank you. So this is a short film, you know. Automatically it was a feature film. So the film was curated within five other really great Pacifica films. We showed the third. It was the third in the collection. So of course we promoted it to all our friends. But also I give a lot of credit to the festival because they have a big tradition. I mean, Jeanette Paulson-Haranik created this festival like 40 years ago and there is people who appreciate stories about the Pacific. So I think we were in a really good selection. And also we sold out because they read about it and of course climate change. But it's also I think there is a long history of people really caring deeply about the Pacific and not all the festivals care. Interesting. We have some photos. We should talk about the photos. Yeah. Why don't we show the photos? Okay. All right. What do you got? The poster. So, yeah. The poster shows on, yeah. There you go, Johnny. There you go. That is Johnny's family, Ropati and Komea. That's Jeanette who founded the festival, the programmer and a page. Amazing moment. The crowd. The crowd for your film. Yeah. That's crowd. It was really, really. And then we did a radio interview at UH Manoa. And that is Amelia, the other character that was key to this film with the two daughters. Here we are. So this is a precious jewel, isn't it? You've created a precious jewel. I would say just gauging it from our discussions, this is the best thing you've ever done, yeah, in terms of my right. This is closer to the center of your... Every film is so different. I'm really happy with it. The thing with me is that I work on films until forever. And people are like, what are you going to be done? But then once I finish it, I don't... I'm very proud of this one, about all of them. Every film is a universe. Johnny, where does this fit in your life? What does it fit in? What does it mean to you? It means greatly because Hema made this film and I trusted her. Trust is always good. Yeah, and she did it in a way, having come from a totally different background and in a way that actually represents the people of the land, yeah. And that's unique. She understood. Yes, I've been... I've known lots of documentary makers, you know. She's quite unique in that. I agree with you. She can understand things. Ordinary mortals may not be able to understand. Yes, and I feel very comfortable and I feel good being part of the... That's great. It's important. So where does the film go now? You know, you've filled the house. You've achieved greatness in the Hawaii International Film Festival. What happens now with the film and what happens with you guys? Tell me now. With this film, I have submitted it to a really big festival in Europe that I cannot say. It would be amazing if we get there because the intention with this film is to make it available to everybody. The intention of the film is not necessarily to make money with it but to really fully make it available in the school system and television. Does this mean that Sunday it's going to play on Sink Tech Hawaii? Yes. So every film is different. Some films you have to make sure that they don't show anywhere because it's going to the television or Netflix or blah, blah, blah. This film is like we want to take it everywhere but I do want to premiere in a major festival in Europe and in the mainland and take it to Australia because there are most Pukapukans, a lot of Pukapukans in the diaspora live in Australia. And we want to take the film to as many places as possible everywhere. It's cool. Yeah. And I think because of the state of the world now and so many threats and strife and a lot of homeless people and all throughout the world this film would just make the heart, you know, would lend warmth to the heart and imagination will go wild. It would be very good. It would be very good medicine, tonic people. You know, it's interesting. Sometimes you can create change by creating fear and I don't believe in that so much anymore. I think you can create change by really creating beauty and making somebody feel so inspired that you have to revisit all your life. Make them treasure the beauty. Yeah. You guys are beautiful here. You have Grace, the two of you. Thank you so much, Johnny. And, Hema, it's always nice to spend a few minutes with you. I love coming here. She's amazing. You could do, like, four shows on her. I know. Start with Mitchner. Yes. Hema Cubero del Barrio and Florence Charlie Frisbee. I'm not going to repeat the whole name. Thank you very much, you guys, for coming down. Thank you. Thank you. Very nice.