 Okay, I think we're live. See us on the internet. Immuted melody. All right. I mean, we could, we could start, we could do a, like, right on climb start. I guess. Yeah. Kofi, would you like to introduce the conference, please? Yes. Thanks. Okay, so this conference, this is his third iteration. And it was first done with the help of Alex McClain, Shelly knots and Jack at marriage. I hope I did not betray your last name Jack. And this was meant to like complement ICLC, which is the international life code in conference international code in like, yeah, I just realized that I CCL, but with the hybrid live coding interface, it was to give a voice, give a talk to the other type of thinking in life coding where it wasn't really about languages or technical jargon, which is needed and innovation there, but also the human side of life coding where the human is an important component through the coding. And this is how we get year after year different concepts. And for this year, we really wanted to do like live coding really be on the screen. So that's why the title of this year live coding interface is body voices, pedagogies, because education matters, movement, diversity, identity, community. And also how is it to be the coder because we always talk about what's on the screen, but what goes in your head what goes in your heart what goes in your feet. Maybe sometimes you slouch maybe sometimes you hum in your head, or maybe sometimes you have a song that gets you in the mood before you code. These are some of the things we're trying to showcase that people have investigated so. So I don't know if anyone else wanted to add. Yeah. Yeah, that was a brilliant introduction. I think maybe I'll talk more practically about what's happening the next two days. So, we have four sessions this morning we have identity, and then education in the future. So we have voice and then embodiment and movement. These are like loose containers for for the talks. There's going to be five minute, roughly five minute presentations. I think some are more talks some are more performative. Everything in between. And then after each presenter. There'll be also a few minutes for direct questions and any burning thoughts. Anyone out there watching on YouTube. Yeah, hello all of you. I see you saying hi in the chat. Yeah, please feel free to enter questions. This particular morning session I'll be moderating so I'll be checking that chat for any burning questions. At the end of the session, after everyone's done we'll have like a 15 minute window for more of like a more open discussion. So either more questions or things that resonate throughout all the presentations in that session. And then we'll take a little break. We'll come back at 1030. And we'll do our next group and we'll do the same format. Roughly five minute presentations, roughly five minutes for direct questions and then 15 minutes at the end for a group Q&A. Yeah, so I think that's our format for the day and for tomorrow morning as well. Also just to point out we have people from many corners of the world with us this morning which is exciting. So yeah, when you're coming up to present feel free to say where you are as well for the beauty of the internet and one of us have to be in the same place. And yeah, maybe, maybe it's time to get started. So yeah, without further ado, I guess Liam you're up. My name is Liam bound. I am a music teacher here in Bayside Queens New York City. I want to thank Kate and Melody and Kofi for having me here and also, I know this is the identity portion of the talk but this is going to fit more squarely into education. I'm here at my school right now during one of my preps doing this so I do have to teach during the actual education section. So just be aware that this is going to fit more into that but again appreciate them accommodating me so this presentation called strength and numbers. It's about introducing live coding students in a group setting. I teach middle school and primarily 11 14 year olds so this talk is about an opening lesson that I use to introduce a group of students to live coding. Now this lesson was originally built out of necessity. It was for an after school group that I was leading which had a large number of students, but a small number of devices at first and even smaller was the number of devices that had the program I would be using, which is Sonic Pi. So I needed to figure out something I could do that would engage a large number of students but be able to do it without all the students were most students in fact, having a device in which to do it. But after doing that so out of necessity I found there were several benefits to using the method that I had started out with. It's a great icebreaker introduces some basic commands, it includes and engages all students, it models the process of live coding, and also then provides a structure template for the students to follow when they eventually go on and try to do it on their own. So the way that this lesson kind of transpired is first I would give a very quick introduction to Sonic Pi. The interface and then I would model some of the very basic commands so play sleep, which is basically how do we make a sound and then how do we add some sort of time to where we can then move on to the next sound. So those are sort of the primary basic commands, then we have just a way to change the synth sound so it's not always going to be the same beep it's going to change the timbre somewhat there. So I will then model what just kind of how to put some of those commands together. Now, as far as decision making what I've learned is that making creative choices can be especially difficult for beginners, particularly those with no musical background or those with no coding background, making creative choices can be overwhelming even just a couple of commands for them to use can be overwhelming, and especially at the middle school level students are often reluctant to participate if they're worried about making the quote unquote wrong choice. Now, when you're being creative or live coding I don't like to think there is right or wrong but these students don't know that yet. So, I developed a first I had them just kind of go up and write the commands and we would all build together. So eventually I came to this idea of using this wheel spinner, which would kind of remove some of the decision making for them so this wheel you click it it spins around and then it lands on something and that kind of tells the student what they should do. So the prompts on the wheel are either add a player sleep and it even gives choice chooses for them so they added the beginning the middle or the end change a play value that's already there change a sleep value that's already there, remove one of the play and sleeps that's already in the code, add a new sense or change a sense so those are the basic prompts that they're given on the wheel. And what this does is it kind of limits their creative options which, once you're up and running maybe doesn't seem like a good thing but I found like with beginners, putting people inside a box or adding limitations to what they can do creatively can sometimes be beneficial because it moves like I said that overwhelming feeling of having too many choices to make. So the wheel is there to make decisions for the students kind of make the preliminary decisions but it still allows them an opportunity to make a creative choice, that being the argument that is passed to those basic commands and functions so what note is going to be played as their choice or how long of a time period should be waited before the next notice played that is their choice for what since sound is going to be made so they don't have to necessarily make all the decisions but that allows them to make at least one creative choice. And the other thing is that we are all in this together so students are doing all of this on one device so every student has to participate and take a turn and we are all contributing to a single piece. And that way students can experience the creative process as both an observer so watching their peers do it but and as a participant where they get the opportunity to go up and do the same thing. All within this context of them not having to necessarily make all the creative choices so that is where the idea of strength and numbers comes as that is a group effort. So the first iteration of this is we make a static composition, they spin the wheel they add something to the code and we run the piece and we consider that to be a single isolated piece. Another student comes up makes a change a different contribution but now we play it again, it is a different piece so we look at it as the piece changes we're writing a piece and then it becomes a new piece every time we add something to it so that's the first iteration. And then we introduce the live loop which is this infinite loop running and within sonic pie we can make changes without stopping the program. So in this sense now we are as a group are all contributing to the same piece it's not a different piece every time we run it. It is the same piece just going and there, it is evolving as opposed to changing so we are all contributing now to the same piece. So once they've gone through this now we have a template to where once we have done that everyone's gotten a turn we've added to this piece that now we can start looking for volunteers, a single student can go up. They can try the live code method but they can follow the process that was modeled as the group. So we can get volunteers we can still set limitations like maybe you have this amount of time where you're only allowed to make this number of changes students can still use the wheel to make some decisions as they want but ultimately we want to put more decision making into their hand as they get more comfortable with the process. So through the strength and numbers after going through this live coding lesson in the group setting students now have already participated in the creative process and had the benefit to watch others do the same thing. So they all feel included, they don't have to feel like they don't know what they're doing they've had the experience to do it as well as gotten to see other people and what they do. So now when they go on to do this individually they can drop on what the group did for inspiration. So that is where we get our strength and numbers when first learning how to live code as a group. So I want to thank everyone I'll open up to questions. I'm also known as Mr bomb music at Gmail on Twitter on YouTube I have a lot of sonic by tutorials available for that were geared towards more student knowledge. So, thank you very much and can open it up to questions now. Thank you so much Liam yeah. There's just a couple of affirmations in the YouTube chat says the wheel idea dear is pretty cool and a plus one. I can see this overcoming the blank page. This is also something I use a similar strategy when I teach kids. I use a deck of cards that have different things written on them. So they yeah pick out a card that says yeah, has the play function on it and they know that's what they're going to do. So I use like an oblique strategy version. And that's like, I've used it for myself to. And then with the cards I can also like as they learn new skills added new cards with new things on it. Yeah, it's great to see that I'm not alone in thinking like this is hard to start with a blank screen for kids. Yeah, there's a question that says, how many hours did you spend with the students. So that particular group was, it would be usually an hour per session, it would meet once a week, and we would do it. For a few months. That year I kind of switched in between we moved on to some more physical computing we kind of built some stuff I have taught sonic pie in the classroom as an actual part of my music curriculum. So that was more as a compositional tool as opposed to a performance tool but that is something we also explore in our discussions in class sort of the difference between composition and performance which is sort of seen in the iterations of the lesson that I talked earlier, we have what we refer to as a static composition where it's just kind of a standalone piece and we run it once and that's the end, and the piece will change as we make edits or move stuff around but then we have the performance aspect which is more the live coding which is the pieces just in this constant loop, and as we add changes we are just evolving a single piece as opposed to having multiple different pieces that we've heard. So I'm just for the one last question, which is, have you explored collaboration between students and foregrounding listening to each other. Yeah, so definitely we I've done it to where you maybe break it down because sometimes students are reluctant to maybe go by themselves but they're feel more comfortable if they can do it with a peer. So maybe having two of them kind of model that same process of live coding so instead of an entire group going up, one of them will make a change and then the other one will make a change. I do like to try and have them perform in front of the group and we can listen we can kind of share feedback things we liked or things we found interesting also things maybe we haven't seen before. So maybe students a little time of their own to explore and then come back and share. One of the things though also just in a time frame is it's very easy to kind of take a headphone jack and plug it into computer where we can all hear what they did. But I feel like especially with live coding it's always beneficial for students to see the code as well as hear it so they can make that connection between what they see on the screen, and then what they're hearing so that they can actually then take what they see on the screen and incorporate it into their computer. So I'll put to our later on. Great. Thank you so much Liam and thank you for taking time from your, your absolutely thank you for having me I'll try and stick around for a little longer but if I leave it's because I gotta go teach. Yeah, thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Great. Let's. Yeah, move on to our next presenters. So we have. And then King Chaka. Yes. Yes. Right. Thank you. I'm going to share the screen. Yes, everybody see. Okay. Okay. Okay, let's start. Hi, we are a collaborative research based group consists of, I would say New York based artists because we are actually moving, we are moving to prospect leopard garden as we speak now. Cool. But I'm currently in Thailand, Bangkok, Thailand, right now. But yes, we based in New York. Thank you for having us today. My name is fame. I go by she day. I'm an interdisciplinary designer organizer, research and artists. And I do mainly visual for for the project that we are presenting. My name is King Chaka. I'm an artist pianist composer improviser and electronic musician. I use all kind of life coding. And I'm doing the audio part of the project that we are about to present. So today we will talk about our project did. It is a speculative imaginary audio and visual performance using life coding electronic music music technology storytelling and visual art to generate and provide possibility for the colonized Southeast Asia South culture and reconcile suppressive story and last connection to Southeast Asia heritage. Yeah, so the the when when we start this project. So when I grew up I grew up learning Western music education I play piano. So my ear is constantly like in tune with Western tuning. But even though I grew up with traditional Thai music around myself. I did not know that it was different for some reason. Also, because of my education, because it was ingrained into the Eurocentric idea so much. The first time that I realized it, I my first thought was like it's Thai sound out of tune, which is looking back. It's kind of like it's it's an idea that I think it shouldn't be that it shouldn't be in my head in the beginnings because it's that's not the Thai sound. It on itself like another unique part and not not out of tune. So there's a lot of unlearned and relearned for us to be able to do this project. So what I did was also like going to like how how can I like change like tuning system within my own system. Whether whether using synthesizer or whether using like Everton live and trying to hack the way it was tuned and trying to use it in in the tuning system from Southeast Asia. So I did use VCVRAC or retune Mac for Live device and also Lima and I'm just going to try to go on. And so there's a lot of research behind this and behind like all of the sound that you're going to hear later today. And this is just one of the part and there's much more and yes, let's move on. All right. So the south part is really crucial to the project but also another core concept was inspired from crucial Thai activist writer and historian with the same name did put me suck. Who has seen as a threat and killed by Tiger woman in 1966 and we found one of his piece writing call loom from so called on the Thai which is translated as the Thai music cemetery and has taught a lot about like how the power people in power or like classism, patriarchy shape, like how media or music be like in in a society also show now. So this has been like a really core part to shape our performance. We also use writing itself in the visual part just support with auto media archive, which has been dominantly about people in power to emphasize like the contradiction between them, and also with our history that has been a story about like the silencing and false disappearance for many activists and and ready hold ninker. That's still continue to to today. We really wanted to shine a light on like this, this idea of like suppressive story. Next slide please. So the visual act as a performing document combined with the Southeast Asia sounds and then each performance become like a continue oral history of a past person and what we would want it to continue in the future. At the call work is my co-politic and we wanted to affect scale how how smaller you need like tuning system or archives can involve a more like extensive system also show now at large. Yeah, so our project is aiming to create an alternative future and also like this all this project is also a process of like unlearning biases that impacted us and the bias created by propaganda monarchy is time military government that poison as a system of thought, and we want to reclaim our agency. And, yeah, let's hear a little bit of that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah. Beautiful work. Yeah. I don't have any questions in the chat we have like just around a minute and a half left. Yeah, I'm really interested in this idea of the, the, the, the, maybe the micro politics of this tuning, because it feels like I love that as a description of it, like this idea of, like, I just feel like this like it's such a small shift right to get it right. Yeah, I really love that idea of like thinking of that as this micro political action right and this activism. Yeah, I wonder if maybe you had something else to say about that or could expand on that a little bit more. I think, I think, because we know that this thing cannot be changed completely overnight. So one of the way that we can do that is slowly and sure, but surely like smaller unit and but a lot of some smaller stuff, or a lot of like small. Yeah, we'll hopefully make a change someday. Yeah, if you, I'm also curious, like, I wonder what live coding tools sort of lend themselves like you obviously found some tools where you could do these ships and I wonder what other tools allow for these shifts and what ones. Yeah, need more work. That'd be an interesting thing to start to dig into. I think there's a lot of tools that actually allowed you to make your own tuning system or create tuning system for you to work with. But there's not a lot of it that have like cultural aspect coming with it. There are other tools to use Western musical note, but that's one that I did talk, say a little bit about them is called Lima by Kayam Alami, which is open source and also on on browser so you can go there and make your own tuning system and also make your make the way to call each note in your own language and that kind of stuff so it is a really powerful tool and I would recommend to check on that if you like to use different tuning system other than Western in your music. Fantastic. We sort of, we do have to move on. There is another question in the chat but maybe we can save it for our Q&A at the end, because it's a big one about reaching audiences and imagining a future with a group of people, but we'll come back to that so thank you so much for your presentation. Thank you. Well, we'll move right along. Hello, hi. Let me just share my screen. Hi, everyone. My name is Samedha and I am joining in from New Delhi, India. And I'm an interdisciplinary dance artist researcher, educator, and also primary caregiver. And I'm very curious about what happens between the intersections of performance and technology. Before I begin my presentation, I just wanted to start with a video and a little bit of me talking. Water has its own configurations, patterns kept by the states of soul, sacred geometry. Water is the best conductor of electricity. To live embodying in water is to embrace that I am a magnet of electric energy. If I understand how to be a receiver and transmitter, I become a conduit, a medium. Electricity circulates freely, guiding my movements. The data enters through the senses, what I see, what I smell, what I feel. I let it enter each of my pores and transform it into information and allow new information to enter. This movement is cyclical like waves that break and break near the shore, releasing energy and nourishing the earth. I absorb what my environment gives me. The flower, the smell of a familiar skin, the temperature that is generated between my body and my clothes, my senses are the sensors. I transform that information and unfold it into modes. I understand that I am also the technology. It is not something that comes out of me. It is not a prosthesis or an extension of my corporality, but it is me. I shape the information and give it meaning. When I invite others into my environment, they are having a conversation with me. The state of the water I become depends on the state of the project. In the beginning, when I am focused on the technical process, I have a lot of inner movement directed in my mind. I try to stay calm, but my body gets excited, stays alert. I enter a state of calm, tension. When this happens, I oxygenate my body and the energy flows better. I have learned in many ways, passively listening, absorbing data and also searching for information, seeing what things open up. This piece of information, this piece of sharing was such a beautiful piece of writing, was by the creative technologist as a part of a recent project that has been unfolding over the last eight months as part of a motion capture residency program. I literally carried these provocations that was provided by hybrid life interface coding, but through water and how these provocations were received by the creative technologist sitting somewhere in Argentina. It was a remote residency program and I was the dancer and the choreographer in the project and we were matched together for the last eight months. This was a way to begin a conversation between understanding body and someone who understands body through codes. Moving on, I'll just share a little bit. Today is my attempt to initiate a reflection of this project that has been so, I mean it has been a part of such a long process and it's an attempt to just start a reflection. Water notes was the project's name and I'm looking at some of the observations that I've been having as a part of the reflections are how embodied presence, delay and emotive ownership as a dancer, somebody who is reflecting from a more corporeal understanding of technology, how dancing with motion capture technology opened up these observations for me. It's my team, the project residence, not here, but at least I'm sure they're listening to me so hey hey. So, as you saw in the video, there was text, there was this left foot, right foot, hip, spine. These were the sensor's names on the motion capture technology, but how for us it was very important to look back into okay right shoulder, left shoulder, very like tech oriented understanding of body. How do we get towards this connection of our grandmother's memories, our mother's memories and maternal memory becoming the center point and the connection of water and maternal memory. To see these as metaphors, to see this as codes, as from the perspective of more sensorial understanding of how technology can and what it can open up for us. So, in a way, an inquiry was like body is the technology and in a way then, all those intuitive outcomes that came from a process of improvisation and somatic exercises with my sound designer who was into live coding, opened up such interesting explorations between the dancer, the choreographer and the sound designer. Some of these emotional strands that became an important part of the process were these family archive photographs that were a part of initiating even a very emotional connection with the technologists, which who were also receiving the data in the motion capture suits that we were wearing. So how do we begin a sort of emotional, sensorial, experiential connection than becoming, oh, I am putting my senses on my body and hey, you're receiving the data and hey, oh, there is an avatar. What is happening in between became very important for us in this process. And hence even the avatar that was built was from that understanding of if water is the content of the body, how do we understand the porosity or the nature of water and the texture becomes central point to becoming of avatar that it becomes. Delays were very important because it was a remote residency. The fact that coding has in itself under underlying assumption that it has to be perfect, it has to be like you know it's coded in and it's done and it's going to repeat you know, but it was in this perfection that we found sort of an imperfection where the human error and these delays became the human element because that was I think in one of the presentations was a shared like you know how do we find this balance between the human and the technology was a constant triggering question that. So what how is one not in service of the another how can we balance this equation. So I think these delays and errors became a very important part of that discussion, as well as embracing them. So, you know, it doesn't cause any anxiety. So let it be the way it is. Even if the sound comes after a beat, it's okay. If even if it's received on in Argentina. A minute later, it's okay. So just to be okay with it. So mythological references as you saw in the video, these were very important part of our understanding and abstracting the understanding of understanding the body and how we use the pelvis area for example if you want to really focus on the energy of the, you know, the pelvic area. The other the dancers were trained in somatic practice and Feldin Christ practice so we had those interesting sessions that allowed us to use water and imagine water in this pelvic area which opened up something for us. The embodied presence was not just through, you know, the presence of the conversation these recordings these prompts between the dancer and the creative technologies that happened like even the varying of the suits like the particular presentation we had in November. We invited some participants to become a part of this workshop that we did. I was open and so the way they wore the suits on us the way they put the sensors on us opened up some interesting observations and hence even before entering into the technology there was this something else that was happening and which I think was these embodied presences that started to open up. And of course, the liveness the sound designer who worked with the live coding, the liveness was very important because he needed for us to see, he needed us to see us move choreograph and converse in the entire process. And lastly, of course, the emotive ownership of the work was was meant and developed and constructed through these family archive photographs of and discussion of our maternal memories, memories that stood with us guided imagery exercises that we did. As a part of this motion capture technology project and it's funny because for me I thought oh this motion capture because with my first time working with this technology I thought it would be very tech oriented or very, you know, tech based kind of like receiving an experimental kind of a space but it actually turned out to be one of the most emotional collaborations that happened. And we've cracked together we have had in the most amazing conversations and vulnerabilities that we shared because of these, you know, interventions that we did. So okay thank you. And questions comments and feedback materials are very much appreciated if you were here so that's me and that's my email and whatever. If you want to reach out to me okay bye. That's it. Again, thank you so much. Yeah. We'll have to continue the discussion in the later part, but just to say in the chat. Alex said, yes I agree it's best to accept our errors and delays as intrinsic to the material. Which is funny because like, if we have errors and delays in the body we do accept that. So why wouldn't we accept it up our technology as well. That's true. That's so true actually. We'll come back and talk about this works. I have other questions for you too, but I want to keep us on time. So I believe follow is up next. Okay, thanks. Hello, you can hear me there well. Okay, I am. I am Pablo Simone I come from Bogota, Colombia. I am actually now in Düsseldorf, Germany, and I will make a little performance and maybe that we can talk after that. Thanks. I don't think we're hearing any sound. I hope that you could hear. Are you good here at the end? Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna hear really well at the end. Yeah, thank you. Okay, okay, thanks. Yes, I was muted when I began and then I realized but anyway, I am a musician. I studied piano more in the areas of improvisation. Yes. But now I am interested in expanding these musical notions. I am a study in studying in Germany. I'm a master that is called sound and reality. And yes, so the purpose of that is to think music in new ways and also a lot with technology with within electronic but it must not be always that I am learning so super collider title cycles that calling and I think that it's a great way that you can so expand the notion of music and also I am very interested in thinking music from other perspectives than the European perspective. So I come from Colombia, all these rhythms that I use here are so come from the popular music in Colombia, cumbia, and other ones. And I think it's very interesting for me. So this corporate corporate corporate tea or like this viscerality of this music. So that's something that sometimes I miss from from the Academy or from European Academy. And that's very interesting. And there is there are a lot of possibilities but this relation with the with the body. I think it's what is the most and maybe in like, you know, yes, to explore more of that, and to think also politically what does what does what that means. Yes, and no new new ways to think the musical heritage that we have. And that's it. I don't know. Don't do too much. Yeah, we'll have to save the questions for the end of the session I believe for a little behind. And we want to get to two more presentations in this session. So yes, thank you. It was brilliant. It was brilliant. Yeah, it was this role I was moving my body. That was the idea. So thank you so much for yeah, for me it's morning says a little morning dance party. Thanks. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, we'll we'll move on to our next presenter. So yeah, there's no yeah. Abigail. So let me just share my screen. Welcome to this very personal talk for me. So integrating elements of personal shamanic practices and live coding performances. So normally the way I present myself publicly so I say that I'm a musician. I'm classically trained. I'm also a pianist. There's many pianists in the group today. And I studied classical piano and university. And then I moved on to traveling so I picked up the accordion many years ago and I worked as an accordion player. Most of my adults using career. I'm also a singer. So that is usually the public presentation that I give about myself. But very few people know that actually my main influences in music come from working with the sacred medicine plants of the Amazon for more than 15 years now. So mostly I've worked with ayahuasca. And I started my and sorry for my voice is shaking is because I have a cold. So my throat is hurting. So that's why I'm shaking. So yeah, I started to work with ayahuasca about 15 years ago and my journey started right away with playing music and ceremonies. So that was a big part of my work as a musician was to actually accompany with music in the context of very sacred ceremonies that were happening in combination of medicines. And the whole experience that comes with that because people that attend these ceremonies are going through very personal experiences, very personal moments. So accompanying these people with music in that context is actually was for me one of the most profound experiences of my life that I've been going through and refined throughout nearly 15 years now. So this is what I bring with me in the life coding practices. When I discovered coding about six years ago, I was already a lot in that spiritual path. But then, you know, discovering the world of coding really did also a very deep change in me where, you know, a whole bunch of other stuff woke up in me like this interest in science, interest in mathematics and code and technology and discovered how things work. And for like the first few years of that kind of my focus completely shifted into really being focused into that a lot more, you know, rational kind of knowledge oriented practice of life coding, which was amazing, really, really, you know, deeply enjoyed it. And then the pandemic hit. And there was like so many traumatic experiences that came with the pandemic in my own personal lives, as I'm sure like in everyone's lives. But, you know, in the time for me that it happened and everything that was connected to that triggered so many different things that I actually it brought me back to that spiritual side that I had kind of left a little bit aside. In my art, not necessarily personally, but in my art for the first, you know, few years of practicing life coding. So it brought me back to that and then I started to become really interested in how I can integrate those two sides. So for me, it felt like, you know, I was literally, I could see a road leading to like all the mind, knowledge, rational research oriented stuff. And then I can see a road through this, you know, the spirit stuff and the call to like personal growth and, you know, giving, you know, music as a healing experience and all that stuff. And my heart was really like at the intersection of it. But, you know, I felt this intersection was really in the middle of nowhere. And I really didn't know how to position myself as an artist in that context. And so I could see that gap. And for me, like bridging that gap and bringing those two together has become a really big part of my research, my artistic and creative research as a life coder in the past. In the past few years. So I've been through like a couple of phases that I explored in order to do that, because also my idea was not, I didn't, you know, I didn't want to impose beliefs on anyone. So it wasn't about saying I do this or I believe this, it wasn't about beliefs and it wasn't about exposing. For me it was about sharing an experience that I've experienced through living music in that kind of spiritual context. And trying to bring some of that experience in a way that, you know, people could kind of experience something on that level on their own terms through, you know, my art or performances. So the first phase that I went through of exploration going through that was with the idea of integrating poetry into my code. So that was like a really important part of my first research on that level where I wanted to go away from the utilitarian perspective of code and bring another dimension through the words to something that has a higher meaning that is more poetic. And why poetry? Because poetry has a meaning for everyone, you know, not everyone is going to experience a poem the same way. And, you know, that gray zone for me was really important because, again, it wasn't about imposing me. It was about, you know, building an experience, a framework where people could experience their own, their own emotions through the performance. So that was my first phase. Then I, a little bit more recently, maybe about six months ago, six months to a year ago, I started to explore with video making as a way of doing more storytelling. And I also discovered ASMR, which for me was really interesting because, you know, ASMR is something that I had experienced with since I'm like 19 living in Montreal. We didn't call it ASMR at the time. We really didn't know what we were doing with that collective awareness that I had. But we had this fascination for small sounds and minimal sounds and slow movements and slow developments. And when I discovered ASMR for me was like, you know, seeing that people, some people were also enjoying this idea of silence and this idea of slow movement, which for me is really a medicine of the kind of world that I feel we live in because everything is like happening so fast. And also in art, I feel like, you know, as artists with social media and everything, we need to grab attention fast all the time. And something fast needs to happen. It needs to be interesting right away. And ASMR is kind of like the complete opposite of that for me. So it was really interesting for me to explore that. So this is just something that I did where I'm using a mix of life coding and the actual soundtrack of the video for creating the music side of it. And then the video is basically a shadow work. So it's a very personal video of me in a process of writing in the process of doing a tarot reading. And in the music kind of linking with the aspect of something is bothering me. So there's something deep inside that you're trying to figure out. So I can just like play that for, you know, a very short amount of time. So it's a long video. So I don't want to go on because I know that there's a few, only a few minutes left. I can give the link. It's a long performance of about, you know, 15 minutes. So now where I am at my process is even pushing it further, combining it, those things. And I'm working on a project that I'm calling loss and randomness. That is embedding the process of using randomness with the philosophical and spiritual implications that this implies through the video, through the writing, and all kinds of stuff. So this is what I'm building right now, which I'm hoping to present to ICLT. So let's see how it goes. But yeah, so thank you for listening. This is where you can find me, my Instagram and my website. Thank you so much. Yeah. From the YouTube chat. Kofi said, poetry and code is a great combination. And I remember when you presented to my students that was something that stuck with them too was that you had this, these poetic function names. And a lot of them stole that from you so I have to have to let you know that you have a lot of imitators. We'll have to do questions later so we can get stay on time. And I think we have one presentation left. Yeah. Compu Danza. Hi, everyone. We are compu dancers, and we will be presenting an experiment called Q dance tag. We are Mel and Sejo. We are originally from Mexico City. Right now we are living in Madrid, Spain. Yeah. Brilliant we have time for a couple of questions specifically for you guys before we open it up to everyone. Yeah, if anyone on the chat has a question, please throw it in. I was watching this I was really thinking about actually what Samita was saying about the body is the technology right. And how like this just like, yeah, the perfect demonstration of that and yeah it's not that it's not an extension of the of the coding of the moving of the score. It is this it is it. Yeah, I mean maybe you can talk about that like, how, how does the body become the technology for you. Yeah, so this experiment Q dance tag is based on something that we have been working on for almost more than a year now called the Q dance technique that we see as a language movement. It's a movement based techniques for computational manipulation of movement sequences. But then all of this comes from back years before like getting kind of disenchanted with the state of electronic computers and then sort of figuring out or trying to think about what other possibilities could there be about making or performing computation and without needing electronic devices or electronic computers and computers. So that's where we're coming from and then also and we have been interested in exploring and I'm not trying to replicate like the one one would normally think about when thinking about computational movements for example maybe something super and rigid and precise exact but trying to really through the past few years trying to think or yeah or explore other ways of embodying this computation and I'm trying to think of this other imagining this other possible worlds or yeah and how other ways could computation computation look could look like. Yeah, I guess my other question is, so I obviously I think about this a lot for you for you like what is the hardest part about embodying a computation. Not having the memory as precise. Yeah, I mean we like also like what you were saying now I guess you can see but it's happening live not that we are following each of us following some kind of rules and and yeah the difficult part of actually following the rules but also in this process we have embraced something that has been embraced something that has been said before and today and that it's okay to have mistakes or errors as long as we are trying to like live up to the challenge or to try to do them following the rules. Now it's okay if we have these glitches not because in a way the thing we're doing now it's a computation that we're performing also is happening in like in its own like organic way. Yeah, and that yeah part of working also with minimal just a minimal movement vocabulary and then exploring the possibilities and there it's we like it but it's challenging to be doing kind of the same. One of my favorite parts about watching this kind of work is that you get this moment of like seeing the performers having like a cognitive overload, and I love that because like so often in performance we like try to hide that or like, particularly in dance performance like it's supposed to look effortless it's supposed to look like you're not thinking it's just coming out of your body and it like no it actually takes a lot of a lot of thought and I really appreciate when there is like this. It's not like someone trying to remember or like really aiming to get that. Yeah, to get to get it down even though it's yeah, it ends up being glitchy and organic and that's the fascinating tension for me. Yeah. Great. I guess we should invite everyone back now. So we can do a little group discussion. The centers are around come on in and audience on YouTube any questions that you want to throw out. There was one for from Alex from earlier furniture and that we didn't get to that was about the audience and this idea of changing something. The question that we didn't get to was, how does live coding coding create change. Is it about trying to reach a large audience, or about imagining a small a future with a small group of people. Interesting question. I think one of the things that we are trying to do like Thai culture is really like, like, like, we passed through like story by like oral history. And I think like one performance is almost like, like that kind of act, but into like a different, different audience to like, and first we present like this project with like a New York community, like which is like really really different from like, where are we from. And I think like that also part of it that we wanted to make it like a norm to like, like present like this kind of like sound to be like more like normal like normalize it. So like, there is like a political aspect that we wanted to also like presented to like our own people as well. So I would say like, is really like intimate and personal performance that we have between like as performer and like the audience, almost like a telling like our story. Can you have anything to add. Yeah, I was going to say like it's, it's not only about the live coding. It's not only about live coding, but also the context and also the political context that come behind it as well. I mean, obviously, like, yes, we would love to just use the sound or tuning system that are not in the, not not dominant in in the society right now but it's, it's almost impossible to just use it because there's also an issue that come along with that. For example, one, there's one performance we use the sound culture or tuning system from current people in Thailand, from Thailand, Western of Thailand. They are actually currently removed that from their land and remove that from their original land in the forest because of the law and regulation for the forest and also like because of like, they suffer because of modern state. Border. And so, yeah, it's almost impossible to just use their sound. It's have to come with some context and also responsibility. And yes, so hopefully someday we can use it, or we can make music without have to be without that political and grain so much. It's being that the world is changing for a better place or something, you know. Yeah, that's lovely sentiment. Thank you. Yeah. Alex has another question, which I think actually maybe all of us can think about it just says Nietzsche you mentioned oral history. You think live coding can develop its own kind of oral history with all of its liveness and and Yeah, maybe we can all think about that because I think we're all dealing with this like in terms of, yeah. Are we dealing with live coding in terms of spirituality in terms of the body like in terms of. Yeah, the visceral. Paula said right so like, yeah, it's live coding. Does it are we developing an oral tradition here. Most of us don't keep what we write. Am I right. Yes. I think I think at least for for me and I maybe I can speak for us. Yeah, we do. We do think as that our project as like an audit oral history, and we trying to make that. Yeah, I think also for us, like also another dimension of the component project has to do with the imagining that this was a way of maybe not necessarily live coding. Well, maybe it is because it's live. But we see it where we want to see it as a way of preserving computational ideas and sharing them so having those this kind of reasons or parties or group dances where we are preserving this computational idea. That is like, like, from our point of view, but maybe this could be complemented with all these other ideas about how to keep or maintain on archive or preserve this history or oral history. Also, I find very interesting. So the idea of questioning technology or using technology in ways that you that are not expected, something like that. Yes, and also the amount of control that you can have. So with with live coding or with code in general with programming allows you to go outside of the normal frontiers that you have in music or like that you are that you learn. So like some some features that maybe sometimes you can't escape, but with code you can escape that in some sense. Maybe you can add something. I think the question is really super interesting and it made me think that I think that as tech artists, maybe we even have more so of a responsibility now because if we think of how art was created and the origins of time, you know, people were creating art with stones with bones with things that now we are learning from that right we are learning from the fact that we are finding these artifacts. And this gives us an insight into the history of that time. But when we think of technology, you know, in some years, we're not going to be able to use the tools, maybe that we were using now. So how is that history is going to be preserved. And I think that they're like oral tradition is this is kind of an interesting concept to like preserve some kind of that history, beyond the technology, so that you know that the thought process and, and the history that we have as a society can kind of live on in the future. Brilliant. Thank you all so much. Are there any other like burning questions or comments might end it there then because we're a little behind time and I need to set up the next stream for the next group but thank you all so much for sharing this morning, or during this time this morning here. Yeah, these are brilliant, brilliant presentations and so much to think about and yeah I wish we had more time. I wanted to say something know that that's amazing so we have a common interest with everyone. So also like with this scientific part, also with this property with this spirituality. Amazing to know this different projects. Yes, I'm glad to be. I mean it is it's really brilliant that like so much. Yeah, so much mind body and spirit came out of. Yeah, something so technical. It's really lovely. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. All right, I'm going to sign off on this stream and I'll see you on the next one in a few minutes. Thank you all.