 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to our September Navigating Drought Webinar Series or webinar part of our Navigating Drought Webinar Series and we're here at the Carrington Research Extension Center and I'm joined by Zach Carlson, I'm the Extension Beef Petal Specialist located in Fargo. I'm Kevin Sadovic. I'm the NDSU Extension Rangeland Management Specialist located in Fargo and Central Grasslands Research Extension Center. And online we have Adnan Akus. Adnan Akus, North Dakota State Climatologist, and I am joining you from NDSU in Fargo. And then we also have Carl Hoppe. Hi, I'm Carl Hoppe, Extension Livestock Specialist here at the Carrington Research Extension Center. And just joining us we have Sean Brotherson. Sean Brotherson, Family Science Specialist with NDSU Extension and involved with a lot of issues related to farm stress and mental health and wellness in agriculture. And I'm Miranda Meehan, the Livestock Environmental Stewardship Specialist as well as our Disaster Education Coordinator with NDSU Extension. So just a few housekeeping things if you have enjoyed one of our webinars in the past. This will be recorded. It will be available on our Grout website. If you look up NDSU Extension Grout, you should be able to find that. And if you can't let us know and we'll help you find it later. That'll be available in the day or two usually. And then the script for today was based off of your guys' questions. So we really want to say thank you for everybody that registered and submitted questions. If you do have a question come up as we go through our webinar, type them in and we'll address them as we're going through. So we won't wait till the end or hold them to the end. We'll address them with that topic area. As we know, most of the state continues to be in drought, almost 100%, just a little bit under, just in the southeast corner there. And we're going to turn it over and start with a drought update and and a climate outlook from Adnan and then we'll move into our discussion. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Adnan Acuse. You should be seeing my slide. First one is saying that this is the drought update and my information is there. And we're going to start right into the drought monitor that was published this morning at 8am. You are looking at the biggest change in North Dakota is the northeast portions of the state got into extreme drought conditions. And as you know, we have just improved The central North Dakota where the Sheridan County and McPin County were under D4 and D4 were in the area for 18 straight The weeks and rows since the May 18 to September 19. So that broke a longevity record too. Just like Miranda said, the entire, almost entire North Dakota 99.6% of the state or 669 plus thousand people in drought. And we are still hanging on to that D4 or exceptional drought in the western portions of the states hanging over from the other Montana area, just a little sliver in Golden Valley County. And that is a 0.5% and 59% of the state is still under extreme drought or worse in North Dakota. Next slide is going to tell us The conditions since 30 days ago and we had some precipitation yesterday, especially in the southeastern portion of the state where it is not much needed really We need the precipitation in the northwestern portions of the state. So you need to add that amount about 0.45% fell near Wapiton areas. And as you're looking at the past 30 day period from At the end of August to September, a meager amount of precipitation in the northwestern portions of the state. If you're looking at the percent, you need to Pay attention to the map to the right hand side. It is between 20 to 30% of the precipitation that normally falls in the 30 day period. Next slides are going to show us on the left hand side. The map is For the 60 day percent of normal and 90 day percent of the normal to the right. And you're still looking at the much drier the condition to the northwestern portion of the state that justifies the amount of Increase in the D3 or extreme drought conditions in that area, even though the drought might not be as bad as when we started in the beginning of the season in May 18, which reached to the highest extent. It still is the drought severity and coverage index is 351 still is the greatest And it even beats the 2017 and 2006 and those are the two other years before was introduced in North Dakota. Looking at the Much extended periods and the previous slide took us back to 2000. This is when the drought monitor started Implementing drought monitor maps. But if I use the standardized precipitation index for the six months of periods. So how we just calculated is that you take the average Precipitation and then subtract the normal precipitation from there. If the average is greater than normal, that would be a positive that would put all these are about zero numbers. And then we look at that during the past Months in August based on the SPI numbers and here are the rankings 1936 was the worst throughout 1988 was the fourth and 2021 was the 10th The worst throughout on record. And when we look at the July 1936 1988 2021 was still there, but moving into the past and really drought was really worse during the earlier The periods in the season, for example, SPI in April 2021 was number one. In other words, it was the worst drought ever since 1895 and that was even worse than 1988 and 1936 March and February. It was the same. So the drought was really worse during the earlier times, even though the precipitation may Eliminated some of the worst throughout conditions, but still suffering from that earlier, the big droughts. And if you notice that it has been very warm around yourself and and you're you're not alone. It's been the record breaking warm temperatures. For example, for Fargo, I took Fargo and Bismarck for an example. These are the rankings of the temperature in July through September. So based on the 127 years of record. It has been the warmest such period on record. And guess what the second warmest is 1988 and the third warmest was 1936. So we are going to see these years coming along with this year back to back, which makes me think that the 1988 and 1936 were very similar conditions. Bismarck. It still is the warmest period on record. Second warmest is 1936 and the sixth warmest was 1988 looking at the 90 degree days. In other words, number of days about 90 degrees. And for Fargo, the number one was 1936 1988 and number three is 1921 with the 31 such days this year. But looking at Bismarck, look at these data. 50 90 degree days this year, which breaks the record. It is number one 2021 second highest number is now 1936 and the third highest number is 1988. So no matter how you look at it, you are going to see that 1988 in 1936 in the picture. And main reason for that is dry soil looking at the the NASA grace soil moisture model on the left hand side. It is the shallow layer on the right hand side. It is the root zone to one meter and all these dark brown areas are indicating the driest in the period on record. No sweat and portions of the state, even in the surface, but the deep soil has been very warm. When the solar radiation is received in that soil, every portion of that solar radiation is utilized to warm the atmosphere rather than evaporating the moisture that the soil may have. Looking at the outlooks during the next seven days on the left hand side of precipitation. And unfortunately, not much precipitation is promised during the next seven day period into October seven. Much precipitation is in the southeastern portion of the state. Temperature wise, all these red colors are indicating it is going to be a warm, much warmer than normal seven day period. Looking into the next seven day period after that, so that period is going to cover October seven through 13 precipitation wise, the model has some reason to add that about normal precipitation to the western North Dakota. So this is a great news. This is the best news I have heard since about two weeks ago. Temperature wise, warmer than normal conditions unfortunately continues during the next seven day period from October seven through 13. Between four, this is going to take us all the way into October 22nd. Map on the right hand side is indicating the precipitation and brown color is indicating there's a greater chance of having drier than normal. But again, the temperature, it is no brainer. Continue to be warmer than much warmer than normal conditions. In fact, the model has the highest skill with 80% chance of having above normal precipitation in eastern portions of the state. Looking a little further into a one month period October. Unfortunately, this map forecast hasn't been updated since September 16. Map on the right hand side is showing the old forecast and this is no longer acceptable because based on the forecast that we saw earlier, drier than normal conditions are going to take place during October. And again, the warmer than normal conditions in the temperature wise. Looking further into October through December equal chance. So the model has no skill to break the tie between above low or near normal and temperature wise it is equal chance to. Looking at December through February, this is a winter forecast and unfortunately climate forecast. The center is no good for us. So what I wanted to do is get into the ENSO or El Nino and Southern Oscillation to make some kind of forecast. The numbers in the negative are indicating La Nina conditions and and all these lines are indicating different models for ENSO or El Nino conditions and all of these lines are under the zero line indicating that there's a greater chance for La Nina conditions to persist into the winter. When it is La Nina, it is wetter and cooler than normal conditions in the North Dakota area. However, last year was La Nina too, but it was nothing like that in the last year's winter. But this year we are looking at the unusually warm sea surface temperature just to the east in Atlantic Ocean. When the subtropical high indicated that this blue line is moving southward with the sun in the wintertime it is going to be able to push more moisture that is going to be readily available into the atmosphere by easy evaporation and knowing that the conditions in Colorado is improving. So I have a better chance of having rather than normal condition this winter. Another way to look at it is as you saw in the earlier slide, the graphics 1988 was very similar and luckily 1988-89 winter was a La Nina year too. However, you have to keep in mind this is a strong La Nina. And good news is that in 1988-89 winter and 89 spring we can use it as a proxy or analog for forecast what might be coming up. 1988-89 winter was the 24th wettest and 62nd coldest and the spring of the same year was the 54th driest but still is not one of the driest. So there is a delight at the end of the tunnel. So that was my last slide. Let me share my screen to pass the word back to the Drow Central. Thanks Adnan. For Dr. John Brunerson, the drought has placed increased stress on our farm and ranch communities. What resources are available to help farm and ranch families manage the stress? That's a great question Kevin. Thanks for sharing that. I have a few slides I can share if you'd like me to do so. I don't know if that's enabled or not Miranda, but if not I can just talk through some basic things. One of the things that extension across the region has done is to try and pull together resources and make them available in a variety of settings, particularly online. And so I would note that the regional website for farm stress resources is just called the farm, I mean the north central farm and ranch stress assistance center. And so that can be found easily online. And the nice thing about that is it has available resource materials, not only from NDSU extension, but also from all of the extension programs and land grant university systems across the upper Midwest, including South Dakota, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, and other states in the region who have also similarly been experiencing many of the agricultural conditions that we've experienced here in North Dakota. So I would encourage people to take advantage of the resources there at the north central farm and ranch stress assistance center online, which also links to a lot of our NDSU resources. On the NDSU Ag Hub page, which has been linked in the chat. We have a webpage specifically under farm management that focuses on managing stress and there you can access educational publications, short educational videos, and links to a variety of organizations that provide resources relative to mental health and wellness and agriculture. I would note specifically that there's resources for suicide prevention referral for services just simply if you're looking say for a counselor or something like that. There are links on there together counseling as a partner in the region that we are partnered with in North Dakota, and that offers farm to farm counseling. That means telehealth services so you can be in the cab of your pickup truck or your kitchen table, and you can talk with a counselor who also has a background in agriculture and understand some of the dynamics of stress that you may be experiencing and so, whether you are a farmer or whether you are working in an area that you support agriculture being aware of that resource I think is very helpful. One of the nice things about that is that we have funding support. So if there would be any kind of financial obstacle to participating in a counseling experience, we have funding support to cover the costs associated with that. And so that should not be a barrier through the services that together counseling provides. So I would just emphasize that particular variety of resources that are available. I'd also mentioned, of course that the State Department of Agriculture has a lot of resources that are specific to a variety of particular needs if you're dealing with specific financial concerns and you need mediation with a lender of course there's ag mediation. If you're needing assistance with specific operations on your farmer ranch operation. Both our drought website and the State Department of Agriculture have links to specific programs that you can utilize. So I'd encourage people to use the resources that are needful for their specific circumstances. And just encourage people to take a little time and acquaint themselves with those resources that can be helpful in managing their stress and improving their health and wellness. Thanks for sharing Sean, switching gears a little bit. Kevin, we've been getting lots of questions on drought impacts to grazing lands. Many pastures have been subject to overuse this year. How does this impact grassland species and how long will it take for them to recover. Thanks Zach, you know over grazing is probably is really our most negative impact on our grasslands in terms of forage production and plant species composition. And the beauty of the other planes is they're very resilient so they can take these one time overuse events. With two years of really a drought, we've seen over grazing occur in 2020. We're seeing it now in 2021. These longer term over grazing do impact plant bigger in response that lack of plant bigger does impact forage production. And so with this job, especially if it continues on, we're going to see this negative impact on forage production, as well as plant species composition. Because we get late in the seasons once the September, October, this is really the critical time period when our grasses are trying to prepare to go in winter. And that bottom tiller is really going to be the first plant growth in 2022. So, if we can have anything going on out of these, these webinars as we see producers reduce that grazing pressure in the fall. So those grasses can have a recovery period. We'll see some positive impacts on this if we get back to a normal moisture pattern in 2022. Switching gears now Miranda or kind of more talking about recent rains that we've been having have resulted in some late season growth on these pastures and range lands should ranchers take advantage of this fall growth or how should they. Yeah, so that really comes down to what species do we have annoying what species you have out there in the pasture. And what are the key species of so if we have what plants we see immediately responding are things like Kentucky bluegrass and our smooth bone grass those introduce cool season grasses that typically have a fall green up anyways and so the timing of our rains earlier this month and last night we got some parts of state as well. And that's really benefited those plants are native school seasons we want to be careful we may be able to utilize them but we really want to make sure they're able to recover also right now they're putting up their tiller. And that tiller is what they're going to initiate growth from next year. So if we graze too heavy and, and we damage that tiller, we're going to delay growth and development next year and we could see even greater impacts to forge production. Beyond the overgrazing that's already occurred and those impacts so one be careful and make sure that our plants are able to recover we have seen some natives that have had a really good green up. And those natives were great have we're part of a grazing management system that has rest and recovery in it. And they were grazed at the time that they were able at appropriate time so they were able to capitalize on that fall moisture and grow a little bit more. But we want to be cautious when we're using those to not graze them too hard and damage that tiller. So then Kevin, what are the impacts, or what impacts will the drought have, looking at 2022's grazing season and what management practices should we consider as, as producers prepare for that. The beauty of this year as we've seen some positive responses in terms of moisture. And so, but we have this caveat in the western part of the state is still pretty dry. So this 2021 drought. If it still occurs like we see in the western part of the state. So those those pastures will really have a negative impact going into next year, because they didn't get a chance to recover some of those were those were carbohydrates for those of us who have gotten the moisture. If we can at least minimize that overgrazing or reduce the overgrazing this fall. I think we'll see some positive response in 2022. In terms of tiller development and so it really comes down to management this year. And for next year if we do maintain the moisture. I think our producers are still going to see a delay in production. They were going to see a delay in turnout because of the stress we put on the pastures. But where we got the moisture this fall it won't be quite as bad as those in the western part of the state where they really didn't get much moisture through this time of period. And then once you get this, you look at the systems I think it's important for producers to look long term and really look at some grazing strategies they can do to implement on their land to create natural resiliency on their land base to really handle these drought periods. Brandon, do you have anything to add there. I think the one thing we want to keep in mind is that stocking rate and the importance of making early decisions there and timely decisions, and not getting over anxious to restock until we know what 2022 is going to look like. Is that's really one of our basic management that concepts that it really impacts everything within our rangeland systems, and if our stocking rates not correct and we have over use on those, those, those pastures and rangeland we're really going to see some long impacts. As we things that we can look at is how can we delay, you know that to get that recovery Kevin's talk about how can we delay, turn out next spring, and make sure that those plants have reached grazing readiness and can, and are ready for that stress of grazing and can recover from grazing when we do have animals out there. So continue on Miranda, you know one factor that influences ranchers ability to effectively utilize grazing resources is water. You've been working with extension agents, really for the last six months on monitoring water quality. What are your current findings are seeing that you're seeing in our water systems. Yeah, I know we had a lot of people that were hopeful that with the September rains that we received that water quality were improved and if you got a lot of rain. It did a little bit but overall water quality is still a major issue. I know some county agents that were doing monthly monitoring of sources, their sources that they were monitoring are all dried up. And so it's really highly variable depending where you're at in the state and so we really just encouraging to continue monitoring that. So you know the risks there. So to continue on with that, those thoughts, what recommendations do you have for ranchers, as they prepare for 2022 grazing season, when it comes to livestock water. So it really what's going to happen there is going to depend a lot on how much run off we have and how much rain we receive and they're in the spring so to dilute those salts and those water sources. I really encourage just for 2022 beyond to increase your drought resilience is to look into some of the programs that we have available through the state right there and at the federal level as well. So some of the ones that we automatically think of are those cost share programs that are always around, whether that's the NRCS Equip Program or it's a program through I know our state game of fish has a really good program called save save our lakes, as well as the government and has some programs to some that are specifically rated related to drought is we do have a few counties in North Dakota and I'm sure other states due to that that FSA has the emergency conservation program ECP. So a few states that had signed up for that that was allowed people to put in water sources that if they were had waters that were either dried up or had poor quality due to drought. And then at the state level here our Department of Water Resources has a program called the livestock disaster water supply project program. So, taking advantage of those dollars and using that to enhance your drought resilience I think is a really good strategy to use if you can. So now we're going to shift gears a little bit. And as we move into fall, we may, we see many producers are grazing will be grazing or have started in some cases some corn stover and other crop residues. Zach, and we've been hearing reports of corn that's failed to produce years in some parts of the state. How does this influence the quality of our corn stover and what adjustment should be made in those cases. Yeah, so with grazing corn residue or other crop residues, certainly grain is something we want to note, especially if there's piles of grain after after harvesting that field to avoid those of course. The grain overload is an issue, especially when we have downed years of corn. When that does happen, however, in this case if we're dealing kind of on the opposite end of that with fewer years of corn or if we're looking at grazing standing corn which is something that may be happening this year. Those are some considerations to take into account so with grazing standing corn, you want to step those cattle. When it comes to evaluating corn, whether that's looking at grazing standing corn fields, or following corn harvest and grazing corn residue, those are kind of two different things so standing grazing standing corn, you want to make sure you're limiting access in that field to your animals and then 10 days 14 days prior to going out in that standing corn, you're stepping those cattle up starting with a couple pounds per head and moving your way up to 567 pounds, getting them adjusted to that. When we look at grazing corn residue following you know limited years in the field isn't necessarily a bad thing. We don't have as much concern about brain overload or causing some room and acidosis issues with our animals and so there will be a little less energy maybe in that field but still a great source. So this issue will also influence the quality of silage. What recommendations do you have for those that put corn silage up that had no or poor ear development. Sure, I'd love to talk about corn silage this year. There's a lot of different things going out there in the fields anywhere from grain corn that was harvested that didn't produce much to salvage corn that as long day and had poor germinations and of course some of these corn just didn't even produce a cob. And it all makes things different but I'd like to suggest if you chop it it'll be feed for the cow herd this winter. When you go to sample when you go to feed the silage be sure to sample it so you can identify what type of crude protein dry matter. Energy content there isn't the feed, even though there isn't ears or corn starch in the silage there's still a lot of sugar still left in the stock of its green. So with that in mind, you may not be disappointed with the quality of the feed that you have in your corn silage pile this year. One thing you should watch out for is moisture content. The grain corns are drying down rather rapidly the corn size varieties may not have dried down you expect it's fall it's going to freeze but it hasn't. So some of our short corn silages. Excuse me some of our short corns that are size varieties, they appear to be hanging on the moisture quite well so in other words you might have some really high moisture corn salvage, and those piles might seep so watch for that. You know you want to have moisture in your corn size file to make good fermentation and 65 to 67 to be the holy grail the best time to have moisture content your pile but we can get over 70 and then we'll start leaking if we're less than 60 then of course not as good of fermentation so really watch the moisture content. I haven't talked about this yet, but I don't think but nitrates is a consideration when you're looking at your size quality this year. Usually the fermentation process will take care of it but it wouldn't be a bad idea to test your feed for nitrates along with the food protein which might be higher this year because it some of the tests I've seen so far have been high in protein, compared to other years and corn salvage so see what that might show up to be. What about corn salvage, even poor quality corn salvage makes a really good supplement for quality a his poor quality silage is at it and I mean by poor quality I mean lower energy containing silage still provides a lot of nutrients to dress up some poor quality hey that was harvested there straw that was harvested this year. So, even though we like to put a really good quality stuff just remember that balance your ration you'll be surprised how well cows will continue and blend and the rational blend with that to make a better quality feed. Like I said earlier, the crude protein adjustable fiber might be you'll be surprised how good it is even with the short stunted feed that doesn't have an ear on it. So be sure to feed test to find out what you have but by all means please put up the silage for feed. Some producers were able to successfully establish a cover crop, especially for a patient I know we had some that we thought failed and with the recent rains, they took off and we're able to utilize those. And so, what do we, what toxicity concerns are, what should we be thinking about, especially this drought stress cover crops and we're raising those. Considerations if you go back and look at, you know, go back and watch our series videos you'll see we talk a lot about nitrates and that's certainly been an issue this year throughout the drought, anytime that plant is stressed, we're dealing with potential nitrate accumulation varieties, particularly for nitrates and cover crops we're going to be looking at our annual cereals so our rye, wheat, triticale and oats, particularly, as well as our brass cas will be accumulators and so nitrates are certainly something to be aware of when we're out grazing. So, I highly encourage everyone, looking at grazing cover crops are starting to, to make sure you reach out to your county agent and get those cover crops tested for nitrates they can help you with collection as well as submission of that sample. The other one to consider it and I think most of us are familiar with our prusic acid or cyanide gases. Those could be contained within usually the sedan grass sorghum and sedan grass sorghum hybrids. Those are the particular focus for those plant species, and especially now when we're talking about, we know a frost is coming. Though we haven't had many up to this point but and so at that time that's really when the, you get a little bit disruption within that plant cell and you end up releasing some of that cyanide gas. And so, be sure to be watching if you have animals out currently grazing and be prepared and have a plan for when you see these hard frosts it particularly if those species I mentioned are a majority or a larger portion of your cover crop be prepared and and and see the frost coming and be able to move those animals off and give it a few days before bringing those animals back in on to that cover crop. The last one that I'll mention is one that we don't hear about much, but should be on everyone's radar, particularly this year. So fog fever is is it's known is a respiratory tract disease that occurs when animals essentially move from a lower protein grazing, or even in a feeding system lower protein feed diet into a higher, such as a cover crop when we talk about moving from eight or so protein up into the mid to upper teens and protein levels that can actually cause fog fever and you should watch for this within the first two weeks of turning out on the cover crop. There isn't much of a treatment it will appear as though it's a pneumonia, but you cannot treat it through antibiotics because it's not viral nor is it bacterial. And so the caution there is to have good grazing practices and by that I mean turning cattle out that are full and not hungry so fill them up days prior on feed. And then monitor and as much as it may be a nuisance, keep a close eye on animals for their breathing behaviors and track that and then if you do start to notice something, the best situation there is to move your cattle off that field, let them give them a couple days and to let that basically the the metabolite that's running to the blood system kind of run its course, and then at that time, you can resume grazing. Kevin kind of on the same tone. How can producers safely graze those these resources if you have anything to add to that but then also what while reducing feed waste with a drought what we want to maximize what's out there and so how can we do that in these type of systems. And so that really made a good point on these cover crop mixes tend to be really high in quality in terms of protein value. He also had to be very high in water. And so we tested some cover crops this year that are running close to 80% water. And so one thing you can do to reduce that that improve the rumination process with fiber is add some fiber to the diet and so what we've been doing a lot of our trials as we will add a free choice. Free or a free choice straw mail something that they will consume with the high water content of these cover crops to reduce passage slow down passage. And it's amazing how cows will really select for that hey that's in that field even though they got all this lush vegetation available to them, they will pick an ill going we've been using rye surprisingly, and they quite a bit of the ride and slow down that passage and it's really trying to balance their diet. So they get a nice mix of fiber in the diet as well as high quality feed. And it does make it more usable and more efficient when they look at consuming these these diets, when you're using a cover crop or grazing any kind of crop that you could see some trampling effect. The best way to improve efficiency is through strip grazing. So what we tend to do is, is put a hot wire up and allow about five to seven days of grazing. We tend to move this this this fence away from the water source over time to get a more uniform efficient use of the pasture. And what we see in the literature will show you can get about a 30 to 45% increase and harvest efficiency by strip grazing versus giving them free access to the whole field. And so one is at fiber and strip grace to get the most efficiency on the mix. And one of the great questions that we're going to go back to Zach here is, you know, as we approach as many producers are concerned about having enough food to get through the winter months. How should the producer go about completing a feed inventory. The main focus with a feed inventory is, of course, having count know what you have in terms of quantity. So what you have counted out your, your resources and you know, and there's, and even if you're dealing with silage to, you know, you should have an idea of how many tons you brought in based on how many acres you have. And then with bales and so on and so forth just be counting count that out so we have an initial start to the amount we have. But that kind of brings me into the next point of, we know how many we have now we know, we have to know how much we have. So in that case, hopefully you're able to whether you purchased or produce the forage to have an idea of how heavy your feeds are in terms of weight. Then what really we want to account for after that is the moisture content in those feeds, whether that is the side of silage or if it's a dry hay produced. So that is easy to do at home. If you wanted to do a cost or test or or even use a microwave in that sense, but I would encourage producers to look when you submit a sample, which you really should, so that you can get nutrient values back crude protein energy fiber content of those feeds, you can also get a dry matter at that point. And it's important to account for moisture, because moisture, although water of course is needed in animals, we don't need it in that feed and we want to account for it in the feed, so that we can get an accurate amount of protein, energy and fiber that is in those feeds, so that we can adjust and in account for that. So it's really important know how many you have know how much they weigh and know what water content is in there. And once you have that it's it's important to then take a look at the animals that you have that you'll be feeding those requirements with change, and I encourage you again to go out to and contact your local county agent, and they can help you figure out the, the energy and protein requirements of your animals based on whatever stage they're in production and and kind of work through that so once you know how much you have to have, and how much you have available, sitting in your lot, then you can start to see kind of pencil out how far that that feed inventory can take you, and then you can start staging different feeds at different periods throughout the winter if you have that access and maybe one last thing to add would be shrink don't forget shrink. So we know there's going to be losses. Through storing of the feeds and we know there's going to be losses between storage and feeding. And so a good kind of rule of thumb, but it does vary quite a bit is dry haze and such can be between 10 to 15% of their weight as shrink. That's feed that will not go towards the animal is just lost in the process. If you roll your bales out. That may even be more as we know they can tend to make some of that feed into betting and situations like that. So account for that and use a use a general rule of thumb between 15 to 20% to help you through that. There's also some resources. Once you know what you have and what you need. And if it looks as though you're going to be coming up short. What I want to look at is the NDSU feed list is a great resource for posting available feeds if you if you now find out you have maybe a little more than what you need and are able to make some revenue from from your additional feed resources, or if you need more. You can you can post either way. And so those are great resources that are in the chat right now. Additional to that is the North Dakota Department of Agriculture's hey hotline. And that's an integrated map that actually allows you to be able to look in your area as well as outside of the state and be able to access both again you can list feed needs or feed available. There's a couple other options and you can see that when you go on to their website so I encourage you once you know what you have once you have an inventory to seek those sources it for further, for further information. Well, thanks Zach you know we talked about some programs available for finding food feed or for for moving feed out. So from Miranda what programs are available for producers experiencing feed shortages besides those other programs. Thank you that are available at both the federal and state level. I know we've visited about this a lot but if you haven't already there's a signed up for I think a lot of people already have is the FSE LFP program the livestock program and that's for those shortages that occurred on range and pasture, due to the drought. And I know several that that one's been the sign ups open it's act and it's been they've been actively signing people up and payments are have gone out in the state in several cases. I think almost $24 million have gone out in the state of North Dakota alone to date. Another one that was recently announced is that FSA expanded the emergency livestock assistance program or the ELAP program to cover feed transportation costs what that looks like yet we don't know so stay tuned for that. And they're still figuring that out at the federal level but once we know we'll pass that on to our extension agents and everyone else. And the state level we also have a depart the Department of Egg has a feed transportation program. And we've gotten some questions so how will that work with the FSA program we don't know for sure until we know more details I think it'll be the at least similar and people will be able to take advantage of both. It's just that your payment for the federal pro ELAP program will be would be minus what you receive from the Department of Egg which is is capped anyways so that's another one and that one. They're encouraging you to wait until the end of the sign up and save your receipts and turning everything in at the end when you know what you have spent or and have anticipated what you're going to spend on feed transportation. And I think yeah right now those are the only feed related ones that are are going on. Well I think that kind of wraps up our show today so I want to thank you all for joining us, and I want to thank all the panelists for sharing their information and their thoughts. Please reach out to your local extension agent with any drought related questions as they can help you specifically for your area and your needs. Join us again October 28 for the next navigating drought webinar which will focus on winter feeding and nutrition following drought.