 Welcome to A World on the Move which is the IOM podcast for the Summit of Refugees and Migrants. We have many great speakers on the line today animating this conversation. Ahmed is on the line and I think he's turned 18 today. I mean how somebody could be that young in this day and age I just don't understand. So tell us Ahmed from your own personal experience. Give us some insights into the journey that you have to take as a migrant when you arrive from a completely different culture, perhaps not really speaking the language very well and just give us a deep dive into into these journeys. For me I came over when I was 10 years old so it was very I think the biggest challenge for me was coming in and kind of being overwhelmed by so many experiences, so many new peoples, just this completely completely new world. As far as the journey itself it's very it's filled with uncertainty but it's a good and kind of exciting uncertainty. People talk about how integration begins the moment you arrive in a in a given country but I would suggest that in my case the integration began before we arrived. It began in the hearts and minds of Canadians because their hearts and minds those that we encountered were open and saw us as you know people who carried value and you know saw my parents as demonstrations of faith and resilience and determination and you know saw my sister and I as children who were just as Canadian as their kids. I can understand what Ahmed and Afsun are talking about because I work with migrants now or refugees but I mean it just seems to me like it's completely natural that people do move around and the reasons are you know can vary from trying to find a job but to escaping you know a difficult situation back home. You might have two boys both 15 years old both from the same country both arrived in Germany at the same time and they have totally different personalities needs interests one maybe can't write we don't write except their own name another is fluent in English and we'll talk to you about Greek mythology and reprimand you that you don't know the names of all the African countries and I think learning to take people very seriously as individuals I think that was the first really important lesson for me. If we can turn now to Pierre whom we've had on the show before a couple of times particularly because you've been developing an app I know you won an award at the World Humanitarian Summit in a hackathon we've not had a chance for you to tell us about it and we're really interested in apps we saw there's the Bureau Crazy app the two Syrians have invented to help them help people get through the thicket of German bureaucracy which I'm sure is not an easy task but tell us a little bit about your app and where it takes us. I actually fell into that but by mistake at the hackathon but Joe ended up teaming together and developing at least the proof of concept of quite a neat app that tackles the whole process from refugees trying to show what skills they have right through to testing that and then applying for jobs and linking them with large companies to get them digital jobs we haven't launched yet so I don't want to try and build it up to be more than it is already but we're busy developing that but it's been quite a learning process I mean I'm a migrant and hence why I'm here but I'm certainly not a refugee and so to try and understand people's needs we've had to be very open and quite vulnerable in our own perceptions and at times even prejudices. Thank you very much Pierre and Esther I read a little bit about your background and I understand that you are representing young African leadership initiative and also that you are sort of a transnational with both DRC and the US as part of your identity. I'm very curious to hear from you how you maintain your cultural identity and whether you felt compromised at some point. Even though the lifestyle in and the upbringing I can also say in South Africa is very different to the lifestyle and upbringing in the DRC me being a Congolese by you know naturally I'm a Congolese person has always stuck with me it's something that I'm very proud of I think pride comes with it I'm very proud to be Congolese so I don't think that I have had to pretend or to feel compromised in any way or pretend to be to not be Congolese in order to fit in or no I know that just never happened to me. Thank you. I'd like to now turn to Michelle and I read very interestingly that she considers herself an Arab but not a Muslim and living in Spain so I was curious as to how your journey is going. The misconception that people get when I introduce myself as a Lebanese person because when I did move to Spain when they would know that I am Lebanese they would tell me oh how is it going now how is how is it being Muslim are you being do you feel threatened that now you're coming into a European country and I would say why would you think that I'm a Muslim they're like aren't you a Muslim and I would say no because the misconception about Lebanon is that it has Christians as well it has different it has 18 different sects but this is a common misconception in the mind of people and I don't really blame them because it is after all a very small country and a lot of people have no idea even where Lebanon is. They would ask you know where are you from and right when I say Iraq you know an image pops in their mind and it's like oh yeah automatically you know you're from Iraq you're Middle Eastern so therefore you're a terrorist and I remember like having to figure out a reaction to this you know there's different ways that you can take it you can get angry and you can yell and you can say you know that's not right that's not you know what I am and what I stand for but then I eventually I realized that you know how you change these perspectives can be indirect as well as direct you know you can talk to people all you want and tell them this is wrong this is right this is what I'm about this is what I'm not about but I realized just by you know talking to individuals and simply befriending them and and eventually this door opens where that individual who had that preconceived notion that was wrong about your country or your culture eventually they start to realize as you're befriending them that oh this guy isn't too bad thanks so much and there's ever really insightful stuff we'd we'd love you to just give us 15 seconds 20 seconds without repetition what is your advice for a migrant when it comes to integration what is it that this migrant has to do given that you've walked the journey already this initial shock this culture shock that is completely understandable in addition to everything else so it's completely and then you kind of want everything to start you know you're waiting for this magic this this magic sort of formula to take to take into to actually begin but it you know it takes time like everything it takes time most the migrants that I noticed like Arab especially because we have like as Arabs we have this community that we are close to each other we live this family kind of you know it's very important to break our like groups and start engaging with others instead of only seeing my friend who I know that he's from Syria I try to like go to galleries go to events see other peoples integrate to have friends of the same community that's really the most essential way to integrate this is my advice humble yourself enough to learn from the place that you're at and let them learn about you and you know that's all I would say I mean in in South Africa we have a we have a sort of local saying about how we get things done that goes a Burmaka plan which means you know directly translate sort of a far more figure out a plan but the actual continuation of that phrase means and he will fix everything with wire now in Argentina one of the most common sayings about how they get things done is which means to fix everything with a piece of wire and so you know once you realize that this is a great source of humor and not just you know how people are but how business works how politics works so by celebrating those similarities it became very easy to start really connecting with people when that deep connection started happening I felt at home lovely so thank you really so much for that very insightful and lots of kind of terrific messages to take away I think what's been especially useful in this discussion is that we've heard from migrants and individuals that are on different paths along this integration continuum we've heard from those who are in their early stages we've heard from those who are now in the process of helping new migrants and I think all of you have had such an impact especially on on one another and myself in hearing your your journeys so thank you so much thanks everybody