 Are you going to stay for the full meeting, Athena? I'm going to stay on. I'm trying to get the council meeting posted, so I'll be listening with half my brain. But if you need something, I'm here. If you want to make me host in case you need to get off, you can. I will around. Yes, I will before I hop off. We're co-hosts. Okay. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. Today is March 14th, and this is the joint committee. And seeing that we have a quorum, I will call the meeting to order. And the first thing I need to do is make sure all the committee members can hear and be heard. So I'll just call out the names as I see them on the screen. Bob Hegner. Yes, president. Eugene Gafredo. Yes. Sarah. Here. Jennifer. President. Lee. Yes. And I think that's it. So as you know, we have on our agenda today the DPW projects and what is something is called facilities. And that's basically town buildings broadly. So I am going to turn it over to Sandy if you want to say anything before it looks like Guilford is here. So we would go through the DPW projects first, I think. And you also, Sandy sent us a summary larger table. So I didn't know whether you wanted to talk about that at all, Sandy, now or you want to wait till we do go through the projects. I was thinking maybe we'd wait until we go through the project so that the departments who are here to speak don't have to wait around. Okay. Then I think we will start with Guilford. And just in the past, the way we've done this is similar to what you heard last week where the department presents the projects in as much detail or as little more summary detail. And then we ask questions, make comments. And Sarah volunteered to be a note taker, a minute taker, and Eugene did fantastic, very... I said not till the 21st though, not today. Not today, so we need a note taker for today then. We need someone to take minutes. We need a volunteer. And Eugene already did it once. And it's fairly simple in that there is a Zoom recording you get right away. We have a Word document we can send that already kind of sets it up. And then you just create it for a day. And Eugene did more detailed minutes than we often do in terms of who said what. But he captured, he thoroughly captured them. So I'm stalling just till I see a volunteer. Kathy, I just want to say that the two school committee people here have a meeting at 6.30. So it's just really tight. It's tight tonight. All right. Well, I'm happy to take minutes because I'll just say you approved everything. Well, we're not, this is a decision time. All right, so I don't want to stall, but we do need a minute taker. So what I'm going to do is I'll volunteer for this time. I don't usually have to do it, but I'm quick at minutes. And I'm just going to use the Zoom because I clearly can't take minutes while chairing. So moving on to Gilford. Good afternoon. So I'm just going to read, go through my spreadsheet of projects we have. There's a lot of stuff we do every year. There's a lot of stuff we do every year is not on here, but we were told this was going to be a non-vehicle year. So there's not much in vehicles, which is okay because we haven't got the vehicles we ordered last time because it takes about 18 months to get vehicles. So, okay, so I'll start off the, I do not know how you have it in order, but in my order is the transportation plan. This is a $50,000 we asked for. We've been asking for it for every year and we use it to do different things. This year we've used it to fund the intersection or the neighborhood study at Cushman. And we're also using some of it to fund the studies for Fort River School, the traffic studies. So that's what this is kind of used for. Stormwater Management Program is basically the same thing. We're required by federal law, we have a permit, a stormwater permit, and we're required to do certain things. Next year, FY25, we actually have to do it a little more. We have to do some more testing and we actually have to do some more physical corrections when we do the testing. So we've actually asked this year for $100,000 and we'll be spending that on those stormwater related items. We ask, every year we ask for money to fix the sidewalks around town. We ask for $50,000, usually what happens is that's increased somewhere along the line as you got as the committee, sorry, as the committee looks at what money is available, but we always at least ask for $50,000. We did the sidewalks on West Street last year from Palmorei to Proctor Farm. That was the biggest project we did last year. We did a section of sidewalk from Pine Street to, just a little piece on Pine Street to a little brook around Fisher Street. And then there was a couple more little sidewalk projects we did, but those are the biggest too. Then we have our road resurfacing. This is usually what comes from the town. We ask for a little bit of money every year for road resurfacing. We usually ask for $500,000 and we've always, we've recently got 500 or more. It kind of does the same thing as like the sidewalks you add more if you have it. I'm gonna put that stuff up on the screen so people can see it. How's that? Look at the same thing here. Can you see the same thing? Yep. So, all right. So the next thing is the 450,000 we've asked for to finish the design of the North Amherst intersection. This is the Pine Meadow, North Pleasant and Sunderland Road intersections. So we wanna try to wrap that up and get something going with a project soon to fix that intersection. So that's 450. The next one is our chapter 90 money which it comes from the state and it was just something we put in here to let you know we do get $841,000 from the state every year for chapter 90 work which is just road work. It can be road resurfacing, road reclamation, it can be traffic lights, it can be guardrail, anything to do with the roads. That's what we spend this money on. The next thing down was we have $12,000 for street relamping, which this is the money we use for in case we have lights go out and we need to buy parts and pieces to fix those. We do, every other year we put in $12,000 for this type of money. Oh, and then actually I did it out of order. So after chapter 90 you have $100,000. This is money that's in addition to the money that was approved last year to upgrade traffic signals for ADA accessibility. We got the study done. We need probably another $100,000 plus what's left over from last year to actually purchase all the parts and pieces and install them. So this is $100,000 is for that money and the Disabilities Access Committee was the sponsor for that project last year and hopefully we're moving forward. On your list we have the $12,000 for relamping which I told you about already. The next is $80,000 which is part of the Field Maintenance package we put together last year. There was a sum of money for approved last year for groomer, groomer, aerator, couple other pieces of equipment that we said we needed to keep the fields maintained. And then we had a second batch of money which is this $80,000 which is for some more specific equipment for the turf management, the grass management on the fields we have in town. And that's what this $80,000 is. We do have to replace one of our mowers in the tree and grounds, that's the $20,000. These are these mowers we have about four of them and we replace one, at least one of them every two years so we keep the fleet moving okay. Every two years we request, well, every year we request money for tree removal support and every other year we add a little extra $20,000 to it to fund having a company come in and remove or grind the stumps and the trees that we can't get rid of. The large butt logs, we either have to pay to take them to Wagner or we hire a company to come in which is usually Wagner and grind them up and then we use the wood chips for other things. So this year we're asking for the $40,000. Usually it's about $20,000 is used for crane, running a crane to do the big tree removal and then the other 20 is used for processing the chips to be reused or getting rid of the material. The last item we have is the sidewalk snow plow. There's $250,000 here to replace one of our sidewalk snow plows. We have one dedicated sidewalk snow plow right now or a machine that's for that purpose and we've been using a bunch of smaller equipment that's multi-purpose. We're finding that the multi-purpose equipment is not working as well. So we want to replace one of them with a full scale sidewalk snow plow machine. And that's all we're asking for this year, really small amount compared to normal years. So Sarah, I will just call on people as I see the hands go up. Thank you. So these, a couple of questions. The scag mower that you say you replace, you try to replace them every two years. I mean, replace one every two years. How many do you have? I hope, you know, they have a long life. We have four. So they're only good for eight years? Yeah, they do not have a very long life. We mow, once we start mowing, we mow pretty much every day in the mowing season so they can get worn out pretty quickly. All right, and then my other question is about the sidewalk plow because that seems like a huge amount of money for to plow something that's only about six feet wide. I mean, how much does a full road plow cost? Right now, let's see if you had another $150,000 that you get a large snow plow truck and a plow. And this would be one of two? How many, or just one? The only one. We would have two that are meant to be snow plow or sidewalk snow plows. And then we still would have one other piece of equipment that we use that's a multi-purpose piece of equipment. Okay, thank you. Other questions, Bob? Yeah, just a, Guilford, just a follow up. Could you re-explain that? Are you replacing one with three, one sidewalk plow with three pieces of equipment? No, no, we're replacing one existing multi-purpose piece of equipment with a machine that's made for snow plow and sidewalk plowing. And that's really $250, huh? The last one we bought was $190. Wow. So I've seen Jean and Sarah's hand went back up. I have several, I'm gonna follow everybody else. So Jean. Hi, Guilford. This is, this is... Jean, sorry. Up, can you guys hear me? Yes. Good. Just going back to the sidewalk plows that's opened up a lot of people's eyes. What's the usage that you had this last snow season, assuming that it's almost over, you know, say the end of this month? How many times were the current equipment used? This year we actually ended up using the dedicated snow plow 100% of the time and we didn't use the other pieces as much because the other pieces don't do as well. So we had only had one machine out there. What we find is if we don't have two machines out there, we don't get it done as quickly as people want and as people expect before school can start. And that's really the driver for having two pieces of equipment is trying to get the snow removed in time for having clean sidewalks for walking to school and that type of events. You partially answered my part B was like, where is this actually used? I'm in South Amherst, we don't have sidewalks. So I was assuming this would be like downtown plus other areas. We have a list online that shows the sidewalks we go through once and then the sidewalks that are on in front of town property, we were supposed to maintain those. So we go back to those more often. We do the sidewalk on West Street all the way to Hampshire College and Atkins. We actually do do a sidewalk on Glendale. We do do a sidewalk on Wildflower. So those are, and then we had to East Hadley Road and that's probably all we do. That's all we do in South Amherst. Okay, cool. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Okay, so I'm gonna continue on this one and then I have comments on two others. So before I go to the others, if anyone has others, if we didn't, we're gonna, we, the request so far over the amount of money we have, Hilford, which probably doesn't surprise you, but if we didn't fund the sidewalk snow plow, the sidewalk plow, it sounds like the consequences you would have to, potentially you would have to pull out some of the equipment. You said it doesn't do as good a job, but you could do some work with the other. Is that true? That's true, we would. Okay. Then I'm gonna focus on the other big one, the $450,000 for the North Amherst intersection. I know this has been on hold for a couple years and I'm gonna repeat some of what questions I had last time my understanding, just to give people a little bit of a background, Gilford knows all of this, but we've gone to the state a couple times, maybe three times to do something on this intersection. And when we went, there are a fair amount of work had been done on what does this look like? What are some options? So I'm not sure how much detailed work needs to be done on the surveying of the intersection, the width of the street, because I have some diagrams that that was quite well displayed. Second, on the traffic, we have some traffic studies that were done, they need to be updated, but we also installed something called a smart light that in theory can count, it can count cars. And what I had heard is that we may or may not be capturing that information, but it has the capacities to do that. So my last comment on it is there's not agreement on what should be done for the intersection. Should it be a roundabout? There is some on rerouting some roads. So to me, it doesn't make sense to get to a more detailed design if there's not agreement. So it's not, and we desperately, by the way, anyone who drives up here would love to get that intersection. It's not that we don't think this is a major of major concerns. So I'm worried that the 450 wouldn't be well spent if there's not agreement, and that we have some elements of it already. And that's my comments on that big one. And I guess the last is a question. When we did Pomeroy, when we did the roundabout and the intersection down there, we didn't have to first do a big study. We just applied for a large maths works grant. So if we have a general sense of what we wanna do, do we have to do this level of work before we apply to the state? Because this isn't, just so everyone knows, this doesn't come near to enough to doing the intersection. It's, you know, the estimates are one and a half to more. So that's my question on that item. Let's see. For comments, partly more comments, right? Maybe we should just leave them as comments. Okay. I mean, the money, that was the number that was put together a while ago, several years ago, five years, three years ago, three years ago we put this estimate together. The biggest thing we haven't done in the intersection or in the work area is wetland flagging and those type of things and wetland permitting. So part of that money is for wetland flagging and permitting and the final survey, which is from the library out towards the river where the work is in the riverfront. So it's a little different than working at Pomeroy. There was no wetland issues at Pomeroy. So we didn't have to deal with that. We do have a much more involved neighborhood association in the North Amherst area. So we know we will spend some more time producing products and having to reproduce products at times. We do have the traffic count information pretty much under control. We actually upgraded the intersection with a device. It's a system called NoTraffic. If you wanna Google it later, it's called NoTraffic. We have one installed here at the center section and we're gonna put two more down by Fort River. It's an ADI-based system that can actually help control the patterns of traffic and it works really well. Since we put it in at North Amherst, we haven't had as many complaints. It actually seems to be working much better with this system, but it also counts as a lot of work. But it also counts everything, counts people and cars. It does it with video detection, but it doesn't store, well, we don't store the video detection. So if you wanted to reduce the 450 a little bit, you probably could, but that's the number we had come up with a while back and that's the number we're just staying with right now. So there is stuff that has to be done before we can move forward. Most of it is actually, like I said, most of us, a lot of it's wetland issues. Hey, thank you. Are there any other questions on any of the projects, Sarah? Yeah. Yeah, so I can't see it now, but there were two lines for road repair and resurfacing from two funding sources. Do those two combined represent the total funding that the town proposes to have for road repair for the next year? And how does it compare to past years? Well, actually the last two years, we've been getting a lot more money. The last three years, we've been putting a lot more money into it. Usually what happens though, is that the money that you approve here won't be spent until actually calendar year 26 or 25. So this year, we've already started, we've bid the projects, we've already ordered the contracts, we have already encumbered money that was approved last year to do that. So if there's any other money that shows up, Chapter 90, we got another piece of money from the state, which will be rolled into this. I forgot the name of it. I don't know, Sandy, do you remember what the name of it is? I don't remember the title, but the state, the governor did put the money. Yeah, it's like another 200,000, I think. So that'll get rolled in. If we get any grants, like if we get a mass works grant for something, which we're actually asking for a mass works grant on Amity Street and you drive, we'll roll that into this and we'll push all this money together and keep paving. Okay, thank you. Sarah, the other thing, I mean, we'll see it on Monday night. My understanding is the town manager is likely to propose using some of our remaining ARPA money toward roads. You know, that hasn't appeared on a screen yet, but that's happened the last two years, actually. You know, that there's been some way of moving around because we were, yes, Guilford answered it. We've been trying to get the number up, but the state number, if you noticed across the line, the state number just has been frozen. It's not frozen, like not keeping up with inflation. It's literally the same every year. So it really doesn't keep up and it doesn't buy us very much. And our representatives understand that we're being underfunded for the amount of use of the roads that we have. So. I think our allotment went up to that number in 2005. Yeah, the state just keeps putting in 200 million every year and MMA has been arguing to move it up to 300 or something, but for reasons I don't understand, it just doesn't move. So I have won not so much on the amount because $50,000 for sidewalks is clearly, doesn't do very much. But when you go out and do sidewalks, like there's a section that was done up here that moved a sidewalk to a new location so it could be widened. And that, I think costs, well, I should ask, did that cost the full $50,000 or not? Or did you do that? Because there was some roadwork being done. You kind of explained it, that you had some money in a roadwork project and you could just fold this in. So is it that you grab money from other places for some sidewalk work? Well, we do. I mean, we take the road money and if we're doing some roadwork, we'll add sidewalk work to it if we want to, need to. And then it kind of just comes out as a project. Community Development Black Grant money has been used like downtown on Kellogg Street. We use paving money for paving Kellogg Street because we got Community Development Black Grant to do the sidewalks. And if we did the sidewalks and didn't do the road, everybody'd be like, what's wrong? This is not, we want a nice picture. We don't want bad and nice. We want nice everything. So that's how we kind of approach it. We do a, we try to get the whole project done. We have a CDBG project in Southeast Street over by the old school coming up. We also have a waterline and a sewer line that is being worked on over there. So there'll be water and sewer funds going into it as well. So depending on what we're working on is where we pull funds from and add to to make a complete project. Okay, I'm looking, I'm not seeing any other questions or comments on the list. Is that correct? I don't want to overlook anyone. If that is true, then I think we can thank Guilford. We went through a big list quickly. Thank you, Guilford. And we can welcome Jeremiah. Goodbye. And it looks like Dave Zomek has also joined us. So, Jeremiah, the stage is yours. If you, if you, and what, what, you can let us know how you want to go through it. What Sandy Pooler did for DPW was put up the list and then Guilford talked to it. So I don't know how you wanted to present your projects. Sure. Sandy, do you have the PDF, the slides that I sent out? Oh, did you send it to Athena? I think I sent it to a group. I can, if you have them, Jeremiah, I can let you allow you to share directly. I'm not sure. Athena said that she might be off and on the call. So I'm not sure she can hear. I don't, I don't have your slides. I'm sorry, Jeremiah, I just, I haven't been on top of my email today. So I am just seeing your presentation now. I can share slides for you. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. You're welcome. Just give me a next slide when you're ready to. Okay. Yeah, you can jump through the next two. Yeah, and then the next one is, so the first up, it's probably in a different order. The all buildings interior and exterior improvements, this also includes some 80 improvements. I requested that it be increased up to the 200,000 and what I'd like to see is sort of consolidating some of the smaller specific projects that were called out and just put it into this sort of general bucket of funds. So what I end up using this for is typically if there's anything in the buildings that go down, that's unforeseen, but also things that we can start renovating. We do have a lot of wear and tear on various buildings. This is just a restroom that eventually is gonna get some love. Athena, if you wouldn't mind going to the next slide, it's just to show you some examples. We have the parking garage needs glazing. We have water issues that are in the headhouses at the parking garage re-glazing. All of this work will help keep that water out and ultimately keep our buildings in much better condition. Repairing masonry, we have a lot of brick and stone buildings. So that's a constant for us that masonry is sacrificial. So eventually we do need to get in there and address that. Next slide, Athena, I think there's just some more. And New England, you could see all the way on the right-hand side, a steel door. This is one of the doors that I had to replace over at the Amherst Police Department. And I have a number of doors actually over at the North Fire Station that have the same. So they're on a great ground plane. So with all the weather that beats up against those doors, they eventually start to rot out and we need to get those replaced. So this money helps me take care of all these projects. It also helps me extend some of these other specific projects. So there might be a project that we did say like the sprinkler project or the siding project over at North Station. Well, I was able to use some of these, this additional funds to upgrade the lighting around the building to LED. So we can eliminate some of the old metal halides, upgrade it to LED, add an upgraded sign to the face of the building. So that's where it has come in very handy. So not only am I taking care of very specific projects, but also extending some of these projects and just making them much more complete. Next slide. So all buildings, roof replacement. So this is a new one that's, I'm asking for quite a bit of money, but specific money to start addressing the roofs on all of our town buildings. We do have a lot of different types of buildings and a lot of different types of roof systems. And we really need to start looking at these building envelopes, making sure that we're weathertight. Before, really before we start addressing some of the major mechanical needs inside the building. So if water's getting in, it's obviously gonna deteriorate the structure of the building, but it also impacts the weatherization of the building and makes it less energy efficient. So if we can keep all our buildings dry, keep a good roof on it, then it gives us a good clean building to then push our sustainability goals and make sure that we get our equipment upgraded. So it's really just trying to look at each of these pieces. We can't necessarily take out a 50 year old furnace and put in a brand new electric. I mean, we would save on fossil fuels, but we would also just be spending on electricity because our building envelopes can't handle it. So this is really just to help dry in these envelopes so that all these new measures that we take inside are going to be lasting. So just as you can see, we have slate. A number of our buildings that have slate are beginning to approach end of life. Now we've made repairs on our slate in the past, but we really need to start systematically replacing the slate. So we may not be able to do an entire building in one year with this funds, but we could take care of certain sides that might be a little bit more problematic. Do you wanna go to the next slide? So just showing some more. We have some town hall. You can see there's one sad tile on town hall there that's crooked and over this is the bangs where we have a membrane roof as well as a metal roof. So if we think about the Banks Community Center, this is something I presented during the budget hearing, you can break up the Banks Community Center into three different sections. So we have one section that was roofed in 2017 with a product called EDPM. Then we have a big section that's from 2009 and that's EDPM. And then we have another smaller section that was 2008 and it's TPO. They're all gonna age a little bit differently. They all have a slightly different life expectancy. So I was asking for this 500 and having that increase a little bit as we start to take those fundings and repair some of these spaces. Some of it we can do as the entire roof like we just did at the Amherst Police Department, but some areas we may have to section off and just address certain sections per year. Oh, if you wanna go to the next slide. APD Chiller Replacement. This one was on a few years ago. The request was made for $450,000, which I received. So thank you. We did bring in an engineering firm, hired an engineering firm to design some bid documents and to provide some construction oversight for this project. When they came back with the estimate, the estimate came in at nearly $1.2 million. So when that 450 was originally put on capital, it was several years ago. And yes, things have gotten more expensive, but it was also an opportunity to help try pushing our climate action goals or at least that's the way I saw it. We could replace this chiller for like kind and just get another chiller unit similar to what's there. And it's already electrified and we would be able to cool the building. But I thought it was a good opportunity to help reduce fossil fuels. If we were to replace this chiller with a heat pump chiller, that means that we could provide heating for much of the year as well. So if we're providing that heat with this system, as well as all of the cooling capacity, that would drastically reduce how much natural gas that we use in that building. And if you remember our boilers were replaced in 2019, they are very energy efficient. So I wouldn't want them to go anywhere because they have a lot of life left in them, but this chiller is an opportunity to reduce our fuel usage even further. So it does come at quite a cost. Next slide. Town hall flooring replacement. You could just see there's a photo of town hall floor. So this one was up on our five-year capital plan and it's come up for this year to fund some replacement of the town hall floor. Most of the building has this, it's called a VCT flooring tile. So it's a glue down product and it is from the last major renovation. That was done at the town hall. It does take a considerable amount of work. So, you know, annually you're stripping it, you're waxing it and you're maintaining it quite often. So from a labor standpoint, it takes a lot of work. But you also can see that it is showing a lot of wear. We have all the cracking in some places, there's more chipping. So when we can, we replace a tile or two just so we don't have those big chipped out sections. But I would love to be able to remove all of this product and put a more modern commercial product in. So it'd be, it's called a luxury vinyl tile, so an LVT. And these products don't need to be waxed. It's a non-wax floor. And what's great about it is we're reducing how much chemicals we're using in the building. So in that sort of chemical exposure. So no more waxing, no more stripping, no more buffing. So it's just dry mop, wet mop. And so that means that's, that gives, that's time for my staff to do, to care for the building in other manner. So it's, it'd be a great, great project. Next slide, AFD North. So this is, this is maybe, I would say just trying to extend projects. I spent quite a bit of time over the past year at AFD North with the Siding Project and then a Sprinkler Project. And having done so much work, you start to see how worn and well-loved some of the various interior finishes are. And one of them is the carpet. I know the picture doesn't really show much of it, but there is, I could have taken a scarier photo, I suppose. But essentially it's just a commercial broad loom carpet. So it's a closed pile and it's old. So it is, there is nothing left to it. It, you can't, you can't even raise the pile enough to properly clean and extract it anymore. That's kind of where we're at. So it's, you're basically walking on concrete at this point. So by, if you were to fund this, with that 60,000 I could take care of, I'm pretty sure of the whole building. So it would be a one-time expense, take care of the whole thing, modernize it. And I would have probably looked to change some of those areas out, maybe take carpet out of certain areas, bring in an LVT. Again, it's easier, it wears better and it's easy to clean and you don't have to worry about spillage. Next slide. So AFD roof replacement. So this is, this is also a sort of specific project that spun off of the sprinkler project. So as we were doing the sprinkler expansion system over at North Fire, the second floor of the North Fire Station, didn't have a fire suppression system. So over the Christmas or the holiday, I should say a holiday break for the students, we were able to get in there and have our fire suppression system installed above ceiling and that. So now the building is 100% covered. Why we were pulling some of the tile down in that sloped area, you can see in the middle of the photo where the metal roof is, the insulation was sprayed directly onto the underside of the roof, that roof system. Where the roof is sort of that darker color, the metal roof is the darker color, most of that insulation has sheeted off and is no longer there. So we have a piece of tin between the inside of the building, well, that drop ceiling too, and the elements. So that's gonna really impact our energy efficiency of the building. That metal roof is also showing its age. And a number of the areas where it's the fasteners are put into the roof, it is sort of punched through the metal actual roof system and now created a little hole. So we've taken care of some of those and we've sort of patched it. But now when I look at it and go, okay, so we need to re-insulate and we also have a leaking roof, the whole thing needs to go. So the intent would be as soon as the weather is good to peel back that metal roof, insulate, so not up against the metal again and then put a new metal roof on this section. Next slide. Oh, so yeah, so the picture on the left hand side shows you the insulation that was blown on directly onto the underside of the metal roof. You could see how it's fallen down. So it was looked like someone sheared a sheep up there. There was just big chunks of it. And the image on the right hand side is the new ceiling. So I put that in and it's been a great improvement and we don't want to see that wrecked and that's some of the capital work, money funding at work right there. And then the last piece is the sustainability, but I believe Stephanie will be speaking on that at hers. But I like to always just put it in there is just so everyone knows that when it comes to the buildings and we're looking at the buildings that Stephanie and I work closely together because some of these projects, when it might be mechanical, but then we're always sort of putting our heads together and going, what can we do for energy and sustainability and how can we collaborate and find money to make it a really complete project. And I think that's... Questions, comments, Sarah. Yeah, I have a question about the vinyl tile replacement in town hall. How much of town hall has that? I mean, at least the public spaces, I know there's a lot of wood. So where is all this tile and will this replace all of it throughout the building? It will likely not replace all of it. So that vinyl tile is in all of the office spaces, which would be quite a challenge. So first floor, back behind all the doors. So we know we have all that nice wood out in the corridor, but behind all the doors is that VCT tile. Almost the entire second floor, except for the town room, has the VCT tile. And the mezz is the same. Part of the stairwells going all the way down from the second floor to the basement has that. That's more public facing, so the front of the building. And then there's a set of stairs on the backside of the building that's more for staff, also has it as well. So the intent would be to take care of some of these areas so maybe more public facing areas now, but then when we're looking at doing our energy, our energy upgrades to the building, not now, but maybe in the very near future, that's when I'll look to address some of these other areas because more than likely, staff might have to be shifted around. So it's a great opportunity to take care of those then. So I'd want to take care of more public facing areas. Thank you. I imagine they get the most wear too, but I'm not sure. Yes. Bob, you're muted. I have a question about the roof, all buildings roof replacement. I mean, we have 3.3 million over five years. Is that like deferred maintenance? I mean, why are all the roofs suddenly needing attention? In other words, it seems to me that a roof has a certain lifespan in that every so often you need to replace it, but it seems like we're replacing a lot over the next five years. So you would want to replace a lot. And I'm wondering what the timing is on that. Yeah, and I think to speak to that question is if we look at the buildings as they are, and I'll bring up bangs again, is that building was already taken care of in part? So certain areas were addressed at certain times in the history. So I think the goal would be is to start addressing those as we go. As far as slate, some of the slate is in wonderful condition. Town Hall, I don't know, I don't want to retract that, but the slate holds up very well. Town Hall slate is very hard. We're likely to get 170 to 200 years out of it. That's just the type of slate it is. However, the slate over at the Northammer School has already reached into life. That needs to be replaced. And that's something that I've asked in the past four, but that was a $325,000 ask. Two years ago or three years ago. So those costs are gonna increase. So I know it seems like a lot of money, but I think that's the easiest way to sort of take care of these big ticket items in a meaningful way. Town Hall, all by itself, if we wanted to, it would far exceed that 500,000. So I think what I would like to see happen is move away for some of these slate roofs. We've just been sort of, I like to say fixing teeth. We fix a tooth here and there. We need to start systematically replacing the tile so that we're putting a tile up there that we're gonna get another 100 years out of, not have this one new tile amongst a 100 year old roof system. So that's what I'd like to see is that we start taking care of, and it's just a very large expense. Thank you. I'm gonna follow up on Bob's question a bit and maybe ask something a bit broader. And I know we won't look at all of this until we're through the full list, but if you had to reduce some of these in terms of what you think is the most urgent, could you live with less in the roof bucket? So you've got a non-specified 500,000 in terms of what you would do in the next year with it. And then, so I'm gonna ask it in those terms. And I think a few things that were on a list have disappeared. So the banks windows were on a list, there was a van on a list. So should we assume everything you just showed us is the current list, is that? Yeah, so I sent an update over to Jennifer and just asked that the van be moved to FY26. Okay, I just wanted to verify that. So Athena, if you can post the slide deck, we can kind of get the current list of projects. But so the question is then I'm looking at the big ticket items, that's 500,000. The chiller replacement, I think what you told us is that a full system replacement is now in the 1.2 million and you have 450. And that gets rid of chiller and moves to a heat pump, moves into a new system. My question is on it, is there a heat pump technology that's sufficient for that big of building? Cause some of them don't work that well in the cold whether so, I mean, you'd need an industrial side and you slid over, if we weren't replacing the whole system, if we were just replacing the chiller, what would the cost be? I'm not saying that we wanna replace the existing one, but if we didn't have enough money this year and is it about to fall apart? So is this like it's in critical condition and we have to either buy one like it or move to whole system? So that's the other one. So the two, could you live with something less on roof and the chiller replacement, just focusing on the big ticket items? As far as a roof, so I would say if we reduce now, we would just be adding later. And that's, I think that's the reality of it. And what my approach was is to hopefully not scare the committee by, so if I said, I need to have banks, I know I keep using banks, but I need to have banks taken care of. This is gonna cost me a million dollars. That's gonna be staggering, that's gonna be scary. So what I'm saying is if I get 500, I can take care of certain sections of it and then the following year, I could take care of another section that might be problematic. So I just think that if we reduce the number, I would just gonna be adding it later. As far as the chillers concerned, I think the 450 that we had is probably on the light side now, especially after, and unfortunately I have to say, after COVID, so much of the expenses have went up. Chillers are in any of that big equipment is made to order now. There is nothing sitting around. So it does take quite a long time to receive it and just the cost of it has gone up. And also over the last couple of years, there has been some changes in the refrigerants and that also has been changing some of the costs of these items. As far as the equipment now, it doesn't work. We're not even in critical anymore. It's, I can't see us putting any money. I won't. It would be fiscally irresponsible for us to put any more money into that equipment. Unfortunately, we're at that point. We've made repairs over the years, but we've just sort of met the end with it. So we do need to do something. And even with the funding that we have, the thought was to get some type of portable temporary chiller to get us through this season as we're working on the project. Oh, and I guess I would just say like, Yeah, the heat pump, the heat pump, yes. So if it's a heat pump chiller, you most certainly can. It has the capacity, the heating capacity to produce enough BTUs per hour on the heat side to heat the building. It will start to lose efficiency as it drops down into those really cold, cold temperatures. If you were to change the building to a full VRF system, so that's a variable refrigerant drive system, that may have the capacity to go to even colder, but to go full VRF for that building would probably cost three, three and a half million. And it would be very impactful because you would be running refrigerant lines all throughout the building. It would be difficult. I don't, I'm not seeing any, thank you. I mean, the number's got bigger rather than smaller. But that's, I'm sorry. No, thank you very much. Any other questions on the piece? The one we had asked about last year when we first, just so people know, either last year or the year before was the first time this bundling of lots of building exterior happened as a bucket. And one of the things we asked as a committee is, and I don't need it now that sort of, that there'd be some kind of report on what you did with the money. I mean, because rather than asking, tell us exactly what you're gonna do, which doors, which windows, which, so it's keeping a record that, because I thought that was an innovation rather than looking at $10,000 and 15 small amounts. So that was just a question that if you can give it to us, then we can reflect it in the report just on how this has worked because we called it out in past JCPC reports as a really good idea that we'd bundled them. Then the other thing just for those who haven't been on it is there was a move to the capital side of the police department and the fire department being under Jeremiah so that when we're looking at police and fire, we get everything but the building so that he's reporting on those buildings, not just the other town buildings. So I also thought that the police chief and fire chief both said they really liked it, that that had happened, so. It takes a pressure off of them, yeah, and just allows me to keep focusing on the facility side of things. So I think that's it unless I see another hand go up. I didn't. Dave watched away and go ahead, Dave. Yeah, thanks, Kathy, I'll be really quick. I just wanted to put kind of an exclamation point on the chiller at APD. I think Jeremiah did a good job of outlining that. We've had some productive discussions with Sandy and the finance team on that, but clearly it's a dynamic situation that has escalated in cost. And I think talking with Rob Mora and talking with Jeremiah, the existing unit is dead. It is not coming back. It's not a good investment for us, but the challenge is it's gonna take quite a while to get a new unit in there. And this reminding the committee that this is a 24 hour, 365 day a year operation at APD. And so we're gonna have to begin chilling that building probably in the next four to six weeks is my guess. So we're gonna need to do something there temporarily that will have a cost. But I think Jeremiah did a good job outlining that we should, if we're gonna invest that much money, that it should be something that is not using fossil fuel and greener than the current technology we're using there. So I think in terms of our priority that clearly is a high priority for us here. So I appreciate you hearing that from Jeremiah and myself, thanks. Thank you. I'm Sarah, I see your hand went up. Yeah, yeah, just to follow up to Dave. Does that, I guess Jeremiah said it would take 18 months to get a new chiller like the one that's dead or updated version. Should I infer that the heat pumps or whatever you want instead, those are readily available and you could install that later this summer or do you need a temporary solution no matter what? For something that size, so it'll still be a chiller. So it's just a heat pump chiller. So it has some additional technology in it. If it was strictly VRF, that $3 million, I think some of that equipment is a bit more available. But these really large pieces of equipment, just they just don't have them sitting around anymore, unfortunately. So you're gonna have to have a temporary? Correct. Is that, okay, okay, thank you. Yep, and I've looked into the temporaries and we're probably somewhere in the tune of 10 to $12,000 per month. So assuming that we're gonna be cooling from, maybe May 1st, sometime in September, I guess. Yeah, it's a lot. Hi, everybody. I don't know who's taking minutes, but I'm noting that I got here at 5.03. Hi, Anna. Hi, Jeremiah. Hi, Dave. Hi, everybody. And we now have acknowledged that you're here and we can hear you, thanks. And since no one volunteered, I had to volunteer. So we will need a minute, take her next time, but Sandy. Jeremiah, does that mean that, I think there's 800,000 is down here as planned to be borrowed. Does that mean that you would need money, some cash, frankly, I don't know, it's number of months of chilling to pay for that at some dollar figure, and then some different amount to be borrowed by the whole new system? Well, I suppose I've been looking at the ask as one whole piece in a way. So I have the 450 or I'm looking at that 450 that was borrowed, that was a capital, that was funded as a, that's my starting point. That gets me all my design work, that gets me at the start of construction and we can probably look at demolition, but that also helps me with that temporary chiller as we're moving forward. I don't know how much each piece is going to be. That's fine, thank you. I can fill out the grade more questions. This is my question, thank you. So since I'm taking notes, so you've got a piece of money that tides you over this temporary phase and the 800 is for the big purchase. Okay, Anna. I apologize, I am coming in late and so part of me wants to just wait and I'll go back and watch the recording, but I also really wanna ask this question. So if it's been asked, just tell me it's already been asked and I can go back. When you're looking at these roof replacements, the police station roof is currently being done. And one of the things that has been brought to my attention as a concern from folks is that no additional insulation has gone in to that roof. And so I'm not asking about that project. I wasn't on JCPC. I wish someone had asked the question then, but I'm gonna ask the question now for the remainder of these replacements. I'd like to know how you're insulating these buildings better than they currently are insulated given our sustainability goals, our energy goals, all of that, is that possible and how is that included in this offer? And if it's a direct one-for-one replacement of the roof, what's the cost, I don't know if you'd know this, but the cost differential in terms of adding insulation versus what we're losing in heating and cooling bills. Yeah, so that cost differential, I don't know that I would be able to throw those figures out there. Just to speak to APD that was looked at, but ultimately we determined that we can insulate from the inside. We don't need to put something on the outside. And by insulating on the inside, adding insulation on the inside would actually, I think would help the building, the energy efficiency of the building better than putting it on the outside, just given the way that the roof system is designed. If we're looking at some of our flat roofs, typically that insulation is directly underneath the membrane. So if you're pulling up the membrane, you're more than likely, it's just part of it. It's typically part of the project. So if we can see down on some of those membrane roofs, you'll see all these little puddles and dips. That's where water's penetrated and it started to collapse that insulation. So it's part of the structure of the building and it will have to happen, but most certainly it is something that we'll look at. And I can assume that the R-value of the member, you're saying the membrane itself is acting as an insulator because of the way it's built or that there's insulation as part of that project, for example, on the fire station. And I'm assuming that the R-value of it is higher, like we're improving upon the insulative properties. We will absolutely do our best to make it compliant or not better. Which kind of gets me, Jeremy. I know that you work closely with Stephanie Chagrillo often. I'd love to know that these projects are not vetted, that it's not the right word, but I think you're probably the person that has the most area that ties in so closely with our climate action sustainability goals. And so I'd love to know if that's something that is part of your process, that you're bringing these projects to her to ask, is there something more that her eyes know that we haven't seen? Is that a partnership that happens for most things that you're doing or for everything that you're doing? Yep, yep, we meet regularly and we discuss it. I've bopped her on the corner and said, Stephanie, I'm buying flooring. Should I think about the sustainability when I'm buying flooring? So it's really, I feel like it's ingrained so it doesn't have to be these big mechanical systems or the energy, I consider are these different types of sustainability or this green aspect for all things. And that's why I illustrated it earlier with flooring. I would love to update our floors because they are chipping and showing where, but I also wanna to do it in a meaningful way. So we're not using all of these chemicals. It's a very easy product to clean. That's just, it'll reduce all the chemicals in the building. It's helpful for me, it's less work, but it's also helpful for all of the individuals that are in there. I appreciate that, Jermaine. I appreciate all the efforts you're taking. It's something I personally don't find the form to be as thorough as it could be with that particular question. So I appreciate you sharing that you're working closely with Stephanie. Thank you all. So an honor that didn't, just so you know, it didn't repeat, but one of the things Jeremiah showed us in the North Amherst fire station is the insulation is a wreck and the effort in that separate piece of mine is insulate and fix the roof. So it's a double that he, and he, well, we can all look at the slide pack. He provided a very useful picture when they said a wreck. It's literally falling down. It did, though, justice to what it wasn't, when you're standing underneath it. I just pulled it up, so I'll take a look. Thank you. So if there are no other questions for Jeremiah, we can say thank you very much. And by the way, if out of this, something occurs to you, if you send it in to Athena, she just will send it to whoever the questions for. And similarly, if you have a question before the next presentation and you have time to write it up and send it in, the presentation can sometimes address the issues just that were raised in your mind when you were reading it. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you all. So Sandy, I think we're to you now. And he sent us a new table that shows us... What, Sarah? You can't hear? I haven't received anything. I haven't received anything in the last week. Oh, it's in the packet, so I can pull it up. Okay, he can pull it up. So in general, the practice has been not every piece of what you're gonna be seeing is sent out. It's just dumped in the packet, but we can do a somewhat better job of notifying you that additional information has been put in, but it's a summary table that is put together that shows us how much money we have to spend. There we go. Okay, those two. So I think you can see this table. I'm gonna show you this table. I wanna point out it says draft, draft, draft, right at the bottom, because everything I'm showing you right now is gonna change. This doesn't mean anything, but it's a first step. So I think essentially what it's showing is that at this point in the process, we have a difference between the amount of resources we have and one of projects people are asking for of about $2.3 million. And that carries through for the next year, goes down in FY 27, goes way up in 28, and then we actually have a surplus in 29. So we have about 10 and a half million dollars more in requests than we have money over five years. Having said that, I would also say that this is a draft and very preliminary because one, I am still waiting to get debt information. In other words, what the projections are for debt. Sonia has been working on that, but she was not around this week. So I was not able to get any updated information from her. I looked at some of her spreadsheets that we share, but I clearly have to ask her about what's in those because there are just some ambiguities in them that I need clarified. So that is one thing, just getting what those numbers are. And that's gonna mean a couple of things. There are assumptions that are built into this from a year ago about what projects we were gonna borrow for this spring and would therefore affect the FY 25 cash flow that I know are different than what the assumptions were a year ago. There were some things that, I think for example, there was a fire truck that had been authorized for money to be borrowed for that we're not going forward with at this time. And so we're not borrowing for it. We may borrow it for a year from now. So they're just things like that or they're gonna affect these bottom line numbers. There are also a number of projects on this list. For example, doing all these roofs for half a million dollars. My gut feeling is that a project that is as big as that is something that in the other communities where I've worked, we would borrow for that. We'd borrow frankly for anything over $100,000. And I'm just need to go back and look at what Amherst has done with these things to see if that would be consistent with previous capital plans. Or whether, because I think frankly, that is something that I did when I was here. But if over the last seven years, there's been a change in what we borrow for versus what we pay cash for, I want to keep the relative amount of borrowing consistent. Because it has implications both for the current year capital plan and frankly for the future capital plan. So all of which is to say, there are some fairly big questions out there that I don't have the answers to. And mostly it's all around borrowing. There have been some minor changes as we've met with departments, asking them what things they can put off. Or as Jeremiah just said, there's a truck, for example, that we mentioned that should be put off a year. Some of those things don't need to be put in. So that's where I am on it. I think by next week, I'll have a chance to talk to Sonya to get those debt numbers nailed down and to be able to finish this plan and also present to you a plan that shows, it was the last page of the JCPC plan last year that shows what our existing debt is for which projects. So that's where we are with that. Any questions about this so far? Kathy? Yeah, I'm waiting to see others, but I think this is great. And just so everyone understands, I mean, Sandy was talking on the actual debt that 2.994, that's the number you said, that's a shaded number right now. We'll come up with that. And then the projected debt is from the past. So there is up at top under between the funding and then the spending, there's a 2.7 million borrowing. Is that, that's maybe we're borrowing for a certain amount. I'm just, the question is what is that number? That's the total of the things that are listed now as being borrowed versus being paid for in cash. And it doesn't reflect the cash flow number because it's just the total amount of borrowing. What will be reflected in that down the road is how much, what the yearly cost in future years of each of those borrowings, but it gives you some sense of the total number of projects for which borrowing is a projected source. So I don't think we've received yet. So when we first met, there was a long list that actually added up to $10 million, $10 million, 10.1 million, but nothing was shaded yet in that on potential borrowing. So you've been working on, some things are earmarked potentially for borrowing that it would add up to that 2.7. Yeah, so for example, the 800,000 where the chiller is marked as borrowing. Okay. Okay, now that's helpful. So we know where we're having to aim to cut on the balancing. So that was my question on that middle piece. So I think that would be helpful when you're ready to share it, at least the tentative because if we're looking at the longer list and saying, where does the 2.3 come from? Some of it, where might it come from in terms of cuts? You've already got some big things slated for borrowing. So that's not gonna help us on the 2.3. So that's helpful. Then the other is, I think what you and Guilford both mentioned that this, our state aid money, I know we got a note from Joe Comaford that there was another 200 or 300,000. And what I don't remember is whether it's for the current fiscal year or for the next fiscal year. So it doesn't really matter other than the optics of how much we're doing here and then whether we're gonna use some ARPA money. So my final question is not gonna be one you can answer because I know Paul is still working on it is if there's some really critical things that we can't make this work that are capital and they're urgent, have they already been flagged as potential ARPA money? So I know this is part of our capital budget right now. So just trying to think of if we absolutely have to do them and a lot of what Jeremiah said seemed purely urgent. I mean, and you heard my comment on the one big one under DPW, I have questions about it. Does it need to be this year as a question? So I'll stop my questions now because it looks really bad when you go out a couple of years. So when we push off, if we're not doing it it's gonna show up later. I guess the other one is when you get Sonya's numbers on debt, the Jones library has now been voted on and there's some short-term interests that we're gonna be absorbing and someone probably has an estimate of that just to make sure if it's gonna hit us in FY25 that it's in the actual debt line or the projected debt. Yes, so this spreadsheet has a bunch of formulas that try to take into consideration those things so that $50,000 in FY25, eventually we'll have to be updated to make sure that that includes the right number for the Jones, but I will just say that it's constructed so that it will capture that. It's just a matter of now getting the right numbers to plug in. Thank you, Anna. So one of the other things, Sandy, that I am hoping you might be able to get for us, we mentioned it last time at the vehicle inventory. Yes. If we could get that, that would be great because I think most of my questions for DPW and police and fire, well, and police could be informed by that. Is that something that you have? I don't wanna, am I asking? So let me just update you on the status of that. So I started working on it and I had thought that I could get, one of the things that I think people like to see is the mileage for the vehicles year to year. And I thought they could get that all in one place. It turns out that I can't, I have to go to each of the departments and ask them. And that is on my list of things to do. I haven't done it yet, but I am compiling an up-to-date list of the vehicles and just I've been checking it against our insurance records. So all of which is to say, I thought I could get that to you right away. It's taking longer than I thought, but I know it's important. And it's something that JCPC and I think the council likes to see. So I am continuing to work on it. I think, yeah, even if it's, I hear you on the mileage being a tough thing to get. I think if it's possible to get it for our next meeting that would be great, even if it doesn't include the mileage. Okay, that's good thinking for myself there, but I guess I'd love to, you can just send it to me if you want to wait till everybody's mileage, but I'd love to just see, even if it just includes year purchased and things like that, that that's helpful. Sure. Thank you. Anna, the Gilbert presentation he made up, I was told no vehicles this year, comment. So when people see the vehicle list, you'll see why DPW has been particularly a focus of getting vehicle lists. They have a lot of them. Yeah, I was gonna say, I remember it from last time I was on JCPC. Guilford said no vehicle, sorry, what it, what? He said, yeah, he didn't have any, except for one $250,000 piece of equipment to plow sidewalks, he didn't have any trucks or others this year in his list at all. I mean, and he basically started out saying, I was told no vehicles this year. And so then showed his list. I'm not saying that we don't need the vehicle list, but that's been one that we were particularly focusing on, how many of each of these do we have? So it'd be great to get the list. I will say, probably 10 years ago when I was here and at town meeting, I don't know if any of you was there at the time, but I did have to speak to town meeting about replacing a DPW truck. And we knew it was time to replace it because the steering wheel had come off in the hands of the person driving it. But that did seem an urgent request. Yeah, I hear that, Kathy, and I appreciate it. When you look at the kind of five year plan though, they've got four trucks, five, at least five vehicles next fiscal year. So I think that's why the vehicle, the updated vehicle list is helpful is we're looking at a doozy of vehicles for them next year. So I'm trying to balance that and thank you. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm not saying that the list isn't useful, but fortunately or unfortunately, we don't have a huge number of vehicles to look at this year. Any other questions? Athena sent, did everyone see that she sent, she sent an updated agenda that's in the packet and it was switching the order of some of who we're gonna see next week and we can, I might be able to pull it up if I have it, but just pay attention to that because it'll be which of the pieces that we already have we're looking at. And again, what the practice has been, you had that master list of these with little pieces of information, but we'll get a more focused list of specific items because some things are being dropped off that first big, big list that we had. Some things were dropped off if you noticed from Jeremiah's. So any other questions? We had, we were notified that the schools needed to, the school people needed to be leaving. I'm gonna see whether we have any, we do have one public, but I will see if there are any public comments unless there are any other comments or questions from our group. I don't see any, so we're open for public comments if there are any, raise your hand. I'm not seeing a response. So I think with that, there was one other comment I wanted to make about the resident request. I was asked to do this by someone who was listening. We don't have to wait to make a recommendation on the resident request till we hear from departments. It's not like they have a yes or no, we can independently decide whether we wanna move these forward or not. And at some point, they will be put into the larger buckets. So when I asked last time whether there had been any conversations, it wasn't that implied a sign off or not a sign off on it. So I just wanted to make sure, to clarify my questions were just hoping that some discussion had happened on them and the answers were yes for the projects. So I'm not seeing any hands up. So I think unless there's an objection, we're ready to adjourn. And the meeting is adjourned and we will need no... Oh, Kathy, did you wanna approve the minutes? Did you wanna approve the minutes that Jean prepared? Athena, we've had a practice unless people wanna change it that I review, edit, make them final. So we don't have to vote on the minutes each time. But if people wanna, they should be posted at this point. So if anyone has any changes, we can make them later. But Athena, we've been expediting JCPC to make sure we just have time for projects. And his minutes were amazingly thorough and I mainly formatted them a little bit rather than found anything missing. So yes, Bob. Yeah, I just wanted to mention that the KP law has requested that we get a motion to adjourn in a second just instead, to kinda make sure we dot those eyes and cross those T's. Okay. So I see Anna's hand is up. So I will welcome a motion once we hear from Anna. I just wanted to really quickly note there's excellent, excellent minutes. My name is misspelled in one place where it has two ends. It's okay, it happens. It was a slip of the, I know I'm sure it's fine. I just wanted to point that out in case there was confusion there. To my knowledge, there was no Anna in the meeting. Just me. Okay, Anna, we'll pass that. Thank you. So the minutes, yes, Jennifer. I move we adjourn. Second. And now we need to take a vote. Okay. I'll just go through as I see them on the screen. Jennifer. Yes. Kathy is a yes, Bob. Yes. Sarah. Yes. Eugene. Yes. Anna. Aye. Lee. Yes. And I think it's unanimous we are adjourned. Jennifer, your hand is up. Is that just from before? Okay. We are adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye.