 What's happening with human rights around our world on think tech live? Broadcasting from a downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii and Moana, New York. Yeah today's episode focuses on the UN Pacific Forum on business and human rights UN guiding principles for positive governance today I'm fortunately joined by an amazing advocate and want to thank you so much for coming and sharing with us about your experience here at The third annual UN Forum on business and human rights in Suva Fiji David. Thank you for joining Voila and thank you through Joshua It's an honor to be on your show The office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights OHHR Pacific Regional Office and the UN working group on business and human rights Post the third annual forum on business human rights bringing together bold Participants to discuss the UN guiding principles on business and human rights and enable protect respect and remedy pillars to defend Communities regarding corporate activities this two-day summit raised awareness and builds capacities of stakeholders around business and human rights standards in the Pacific and the gathering encourages Peer learning among states National human rights institutions businesses industry associates International organizations trade unions civil society organizations and academics in Oceania facilitating regional exchange of good practices David why is the UN Pacific Forum on business and human rights important in our islands? And how does it relate to everyday advocacy and campaigns for social change? Thank you, Joshua First of all, I am I work for the government in Papua New Guinea I am the principal advisor for international relations with the National Youth Development Authority However, I also am a human rights defender and in my view the importance of holding importance of having the human rights and business forum and amplifying the course and the stance of human rights in the Pacific with all human rights defenders or Dedicating their life day-to-day for a cause It is important that our capacities need to be built meaning that we must be informed with the regional frameworks the guiding principles As well as how we could learn from each other I'm using different approaches and best practices That we can actually learn from in that way. It is a region within region learning peer-to-peer learning And some of the interesting interventions can be replicated in other countries That have similar contexts can can then be workable In the case another thing is also Having this regional Forum brings together the camaraderie of those who stand up for human rights and Sometimes working in isolation and in silos may be one of those biggest challenges because we've Back in our countries we feel disempowered or maybe alone But when you come together with an army of people who have the same vision and we'll fight the same course with you It gives you that fulfillment and motivation to go back and do more and scale up your work That's a great point the the solidarity that you could feel in the room We have representatives from Papua New Guinea. We have representatives here in Fiji We have representatives from all over Oceania who are engaging on a daily basis to try to combat Corruption counter corporations that are infringing on the free prior informed consent of indigenous peoples throughout the islands in the Pacific and it's really important to see how as you said people could share best practices and Then scale those up to be able to make a positive social change in the communities Maybe you could share with us a bit too on some of the highlights from the two-day event in The summit in Suva and why the UN guiding principles is an important instrument for you Yes, one of the key highlights was learning from corporations that uphold the Utilizing the UN guiding principles, especially having a remedy mechanism In in their businesses. That is one thing that I've really learned that needs to needs to be advocated When I go back to Papua New Guinea learning from also the case studies from Mining and in the extractive industry of how indigenous people need to come to the table of decision making and Also must be informed the real intentions of the mining and exploration activities and being informed about the environmental Destruction that may all in in that cause to recover loss and damage That is one thing that I am taking back Secondly is that I've also realized during this forum is that we may come up with The guiding principles and all of these regional frameworks But in order for these to be effective on the ground is domesticating that and that shows in Law and legislation reforms that need to take place because in the Pacific there are many Laws that are still colonial laws that need yet to be reformed for example in Papua New Guinea We have the mining legislation which the beneficiaries of indigenous people has been three percent and Recently with the current government what we've changed has now increased to 15 percent. So that's just a progress But then how do we translate this law into a practical action that can bring out impact Some other Lenin's that throughout the forum not only about the guiding principles, but One of the most important Gaps that was that we've also realized is the The gap that exists between governance Governments to communicate in with the civil society organization And we shouldn't be seen the government especially someone from the government shouldn't be seen civil society as a threat, but rather a Function that holds us accountable so that we can do the right thing for human rights That's a really good point. And if we look at what's going on I think the UN Pacific Forum on business and human rights is important in our islands and it also connects to with the UN2030 agenda and the Paris Agreement Can you share how those three as you talked about earlier? We break down silos and can bring them all together to then be able to have a Comprehensive campaign that guarantees human rights that guarantees sustainable development, but also climate justice for all in Oceania Yes, it's it's about bringing all protagonists the actors to the table and also Potent to be informed well informed by research development on the ground because these bigger goals that we are working towards such as the Paris Agreement the The 2030 agenda you and 2030 agenda This suggests road maps that we're looking to towards but then needs to be practical Way of measuring how we are progressing and this is not only measured through experiences, but rather figures numbers and scientific Evidences And at the regional level, I think we should start to Increase investments into reporting as well because like I said that data statistics and analytics analysis Seems to be one of those Bigger Components that that's missing in our reporting Even though there are some real challenges been faced on the ground, but there is nothing there to back it up. So In that what I'm trying to say is that we need evidence-based Progress in our dialogues and there needs to be collaboration and communication between the protagonist actors Which includes the human rights defenders civil society organizations communities indigenous businesses corporates investors and governments It's a really good point because it really will take all of us to be able to Survive the current climate crisis But as you said all stakeholders must be included and also Citizen scientists citizens can contribute and that idea you mentioned of data in a dashboard as well as disaggregated data Is absolutely essential as we go forward to implement these UN guiding principles Maybe you could share a bit too about why the guiding principles are so important in Papua New Guinea And how you utilize this UN language to then make a difference with some of the challenges that are facing your country Yes, Joshua interestingly Yesterday we had Papua New Guinea pop up in many of the sessions and they used as an example and I guess that is not only a challenge, but it is also for us to See what we are doing right and not doing properly and I guess the language of The UN and the human rights needs needs to be simplified To the context of our people to understand their own rights as indigenous peoples how they engage in businesses That they also have a right to remedy how to report Learn about reporting Processes and also how can they hold businesses and governments are comfortable that is very important So what we've done so far in Papua New Guinea Since we were the state under review under the UPR Process, which was last year What we've done with the UN FTA United Nations population funding Papua New Guinea In collaboration with the National Youth Development Authority was to disseminate the information on UN processes and reporting processes and the guidelines In to young people through the Mocife Parliament So last year we saw 75 young people who were brought together from all provinces of Papua New Guinea to learn about this Not only using the UN language, but how do we simplify that in their own context so that they can understand because we're talking about young people In the next by 2030 They are the ones who will take ownership and will be Affected with the decisions that we are making as leaders today and policy makers today And we've also recently done that this year with another 60 young people So that's what progress looks like but there needs to be more to be there. There is a need for more to be done Not only within the youth space, but within the communities because one thing that we've also realized that The illiteracy rates in Papua New Guinea can be one of the contributing factors of trying to break through this issue of getting it right That's something that you brought up the Universal Periodic Review because the UPR is a process that engages all stakeholders across The entire nation and more importantly also it happens every four and a half years So it's great to hear about the follow-up you're doing to show how the Universal Periodic Review is connected To this process too as well with the UN working group That exists on business and human rights with representatives from Asia Pacific region and all of the other four but also as you pointed out The sustainable development goals and how those are important with the voluntary national review and most recently building on the Success of COP with Egypt just closing down the nationally determined contribution So it's born as you say everyone society across the whole state of Papua New Guinea must come together but also utilize all of the UN processes to Really leverage what is important to guarantee the liberation of your people from colonial Constructs that still persists, but all the way up to the present challenges that everyone's facing on a heating planet So what we're looking at next is maybe you could share some highlights from the two-day summit in Suva and Some of the panels what it was some of the best speakers and some of the observations you have from those panels that looked at remedy that featured Represented from many UN agencies the Food and Agriculture Organization the High Commissioner for Human Rights and many of those that operate daily in Oceania Yes, I think the panel on UN Guiding Principles was one of the major highlights because It was interesting to learn from the room that nobody actually knew what the UN Guiding Principles were And and for me as someone who only have heard about the UN Guiding Principles now and read only some of the documents, but not really Unpack what the UN Guiding Principles were and I think In the in the panel Learning about the human rights due diligence Processes also the impact assessments of human rights must be done in consultation also The access to remedy was I would say was the language that was spoken that popped up over the two days access to remedy and Coming to realize that in many of the countries in the Pacific we don't have that that mechanism In order to hold businesses accountable one of the best practices that I've learned from is ANZ the model that you they used In the statement of how they carry out their businesses Where they had Access to remedy framework where customers had a complaint There was a portal created for them in order for them management to address such issues however On the flip side of it sometimes we think that we are doing the right and just putting a mechanism up there but it cannot maybe Effective because the follow-up and follow-through processes can either determine one or two things Maybe it's just only a letter of apology. Maybe it can be a compensation Which may not be enough But however these little actions do matter the small things built to bigger things so once we said that standard in different businesses and Areas of concern it does push that envelope to implement the guiding principles I think another interesting one because Papua Niggini is heavily involved in the mining and extractive industry was learning from um the panel on I think the second last panel. Sorry. I'm just going through my notes on on that And oh, yeah, the responsible business conduct in the extractive and mineral sectors with Adams from the human rights law center talked about Papua Niggini That's right and learning from dome, which is an Australian Company mining company that the approach is that it's now taken which is more consultative with indigenous people before after getting its License to explore What are the practical steps that it took ensuring that this is The process that they're Before the mining exploration takes place. They're also considering the benefits of indigenous people creating opportunities for indigenous people such as infrastructure improvement opportunities to employment, but also considering What the indigenous people want? And that's one thing that really What's the highlight for me because when I go back again in Papua Niggini I feel like there needs to be More that needs to be done in terms of creating awareness to our local people that Before a mining company comes into the country people must know and understand that Really intention of this and how it contributes to the first and foremost the integral development of our people before shifting profits to governments and to the economy of the country The people-centered approach really was prevalent throughout the many panels and it was exciting to see the un human rights council special procedures the working group members, but also Rapporteurs sharing how they've utilized those instruments to then uphold UN standards at the local level and Building on that. Maybe you could share What follow-up for fundamental freedom and human rights Will you include from this third overall pacific forum on business and human rights as you return and what are some priorities? I know we discussed maybe looking at filing some Individual complaints, but also reaching out for actions from these important international institutions such as Rapporteurs and working group Yes so one thing that we realized as government officials in this forum was to go back again and utilize the 16 days of Activism human rights activism in the country to amplify What was learned from the forum, but the practical actions that we're going to take forward is to Bring together civil society through the CIMC consultative implementation monitoring council to run a full Maybe a week of quarterly workshops for civil society organizations To understand the processes and also the mechanisms of the UN such as the working group the special Rapporteurs and How the civil society can go on the ground to assist communities? to do submissions Because where the arms of government falls short, it's the civil society and the community-based organizations that go on the ground to bring in services and empowerment programs to community development programs In communities so that is the best way that we are looking at it because if the government intervenes into Trying to push for Submissions on the ground. It may be a challenge to to the government as government officials taking the lead, but rather strategically Give more power to the civil society So that in that way we're also making our way to the government that the role of civil society is important so that they hold us accountable That's a great point It reminds me too of the panel that was the UN guiding principles 10 plus because it's only been around a decade But they shared about the roadmap for the next decade of business and human rights Could you share how you think that roadmap might be beneficial in Papua New Guinea as we go forward? Definitely definitely it can be and the most important. I think when they shared the roadmap for Papua New Guinea it kind of sets It kind of but it really sets the standards of how different sectors within within the country from private sector businesses civil society the communities and governments That provides that framework and can work towards Fulfilling what's in the UN guiding principles Great point. And then that really reminds me what you were talking about upon returning So what's exciting we know is on 25 november kicks off 16 days of action And that comes up to the universal declaration of human rights anniversary And this year is the 74th anniversary But the way people are celebrating is kicking off a full year of human rights education leading up To the 75th anniversary. What are some of the things that are going to happen in Papua New Guinea that you can share with us? Yes, um Interestingly in Papua New Guinea, we don't have the we don't celebrate 16 days only we have 21 days of human rights activism So that's interesting because that's how the civil society decided to bring in more Um Advocacy and more period, you know time in the activism period. So While we are in Fiji there is always already a launching done in anger Anger province in Wapenamanda and they've kicked off the human rights film festival and Other awareness programs that's already happening up in the highlands There will also be a film festival In certain parts of the country in different cities And there are other fun days and work for life Activities that are happening in the national capital district is headed by the active cities in potmosby And this engages more young people civil society raising awareness not only Having a fun day, but also educating the public on human rights That's excellent and maybe you can share as well The breadth and depth and the beauty of the culture of Papua New Guinea How many languages that are spoken and all those different unique perspectives that give An overall vision of what humanity really is I I'll never forget some of the quotes walking through the museum Where he was saying welcome to the university of community and there's so much traditional knowledge Maybe you could share some of that with us on how that then offers a bolder vision for the future we all desire Yes, I thank you for raising this. Papua New Guinea is more like a The entire world shrinked into one country called Papua New Guinea because We have a population of almost nine million Now and we speak more than 800 languages with a thousand tribes And to it's amazing how Papua New Guinea comes together, which is united by its diversity And that's mostly driven by a generation that is now waking up to say that we have to now stand together And the young generation is now taking lead in revisiting our cultural practices unity and spreading the positive message of message of uniting through our diversity What's really also what really works in Papua New Guinea is that After colonization we have a language called talk person which is broken English and broken German So many people wonder how do people who speak 800 and 800 plus languages from Over a thousand tribes come together. So we have what we call talk person Which is called pigeon. So the talk person is one of the languages that brings together people And it has it is an official language, of course, apart from English and more to and so Again highlighting How can Papua New Guinea move forward in the 2030 agenda if the world can come together in forming the sustainable development courses the similar concept However, what really brings to together at the core of How we can move together is humanity. It's about seeing the human in people That's perfect. And as we look forward we can look at the follow-up to the upr But also this roadmap on the un guiding principles And bringing all those unique visions from the sepik river All the way down to port morisby to share those there as well as many islands that you have as well How do you reach out and include all the people? Of papa new guinea in the guiding principles discussion that will develop from this third forum on business and human rights But also in the follow-up of the upr Oh, interestingly That's a good question. How do we include all of these people from the highlands to the islands to momasa and the south end To be included in the guiding principles Um What we have in in papa new guinea we have four regions all of these provinces are clustered in four regions And I think um, then it's to be an interpretation Of the un guiding principles in all four regions Um bringing together all stakeholders. Um a similar forum that we have at the regional level, but I think that needs to be Contextualized at the national level so that people do understand what are these big Guidelines for the these big frameworks and what does that look like in governance and how do how does the traditional governance People from traditional governance also participate in this regional and a global global process um That's the approach that we are now planning of taking that is the interpretation in all four regions That's a wonderful way to conclude because we too often forget traditional leadership And how that has actually nurtured and been shaped by the cultures for centuries that then add To the way forward of how we can make sure that the guiding principles As well as the sustainable development goals And the un declaration on the rights of indigenous people can all be forged To guarantee a better life for everyone in papa new guinea. Thank you so much for joining us And look forward to continue Going forward around the anniversary of the you universal declaration of human rights And also making sure around papa new guinea's continued Existence as a united nation's member and a dynamic member of the melanesian spearhead group as well thank you through dr. Sure and We look forward to um continuing the conversation back in papa new guinea Mahalo and thank you for joining the third forum on business and human rights and sharing heads and relevancy in papa new guinea and around the pacific Thank you so much for watching think tech hawaii If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on youtube and the follow button on vimeo You can also follow us on facebook instagram and linked in and donate to us at thinktech hawaii dot com Mahalo