 Hmm. Hey everybody welcome back to Linuxcast. I'm your host Matt. I'm joined by Tyler as usual. How are you doing Tyler? Doing good doing good. That is good. I hear That you've tried to install gentoo again. Tell us about your weekend Linux I was convinced to try gentoo and It it it's not that it didn't go well because I got it installed. I got further but gentoo is just I've decided it's Definitely not for me. It was there were circular dependency issues And then when I fixed those there was countless other issues that I ran into when it comes to just Managing a gentoo install is just It's a lot of work and I Prefer to just have stuff installed and then mess around with the I don't know like graphical stuff like my window manager Terminals stuff like that. I don't know so I Bailed on gentoo and then I installed Multiple different other distros trying I even tried to fsf approved distros just just a heck give it a shot Try it out. I knew Wi-Fi wasn't gonna work, but you know, right thing but yeah in the end I came back to arch and it Works I was able to get it installed like rushed before the podcast Haha Now I'm just gonna I the new thing that I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do a full month in just using software and See how that goes Hopefully I end up really like I already do like most suckless software. The only thing I'm if you own is the surf browser Yeah, surf is horrible. It's not good at all Because it's slow man. It is slow. I know and it gets slower as you add patches So it's like it starts off slow and then it gets worse I didn't I didn't use a very long queue browser is just way better I mean just miles and head better even though it's written in Python and everybody's like, oh, I don't want to do it Even in Python, but it's way faster Yeah, so have would you consider using a gentoo-based distros something like calculate Linux to try that because that that's what I've decided I'm gonna do because I mean everybody you're right There's some kind of disease on the internet where there's it's infected like half of my subscribers apparently they all want me to try gentoo so I'm gonna compromise and install calculate Linux eventually. I'm gonna do a video on it But hopefully I mean everybody says that's not gentoo, but I'm gonna give it a try For for me the only reason I don't try calculate or anything like that It's because for me the reason I would go to gen 2 is because by the end of having everything set up and installed It's Everything is compiled specifically for my system and made specifically for it and I only have the stuff that I want that would be great but Calculate I'm I'm gonna pick a desktop environment that I don't want then go through there and have to do all the customization anyway so I Don't know in my head. I guess might as well just Dive head first into gen 2 and if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Yeah Well, um Okay, so for my week when Linux, I don't even remember. This has been the longest week in the history of weeks So I finished my DWM rice Kinda ish. I I I still have I'm not happy with the Vim theme I'm gonna continue to tweak that and I still have to do Rolfi But other than that and that's basically what I've been doing in terms of actually doing stuff on Linux this week all the rest of it has just been a Shit ton of work. I mean recording videos early, which has been good, but then actual, you know Career work that has gone not so great this week just because LibreOffice has been Messing up because it's you know trash And I have a note in here I got my rice done just in time for me to actually switch window managers because I've been kind of pitching switched to a different window manager I have sway installed so I'm gonna be doing a sway video for Monday I don't know whether or not that's going to be a how-to install video or a rising video yet I haven't decided probably a rising video because it's already installed but The only question I have about that is whether or not I'm going to be at OBS working in it or not Cuz it's way I'm really interested to see like whether or not you have high opinions of sway Okay, so I'll talk about this more in the video, but it's the stupidest thing When you run X Rander in a you know anything you do you just run X Rander it'll actually list out the displays you have connected, right and If I'm in here in DWM and I run X Rander I have two displays I have display port dash one and I have HDMI dash a dash one But of course X Rander doesn't exist in sway because it's Wayland right that you know So they have an alternative, you know that you can run and it will list your displays The display names are different It's so stupid because all right, so because you don't have you know Xorg or you can't use like a Rander or any of that stuff You have to put in your configuration file where the displays are and you have to put the position and stuff It's managed like her slough WM does their displays and stuff where you have to list it in the configuration files And I had fun, right? It's not I mean it's not horrible, but you know, I couldn't get it to work I was I tried for like a half an hour with these display names because I looked up the display names beforehand And it just would not work and that's because I was using the display names that are as they're listed under You know Xorg and not in sway the the the display names for the display port is DP dash to and The the the name for the HDMI when it's HDMI dash to dash a or something like that. Like why is it change? Like the name should stay the same you think right? I mean at least the name should stay the same Yeah, you'd think so, but I guess Wayland is just using their own own name and it's just so weird Eventually they get it figured out and finally got the disc the the the The monitors where they need to be like side by side in the right order It's not hard. There's good instructions that it was just if you'd use end up using sway just go through and Run their version of X rander in the terminal so you can actually see what the names are because I'm gonna guarantee you the The names are gonna be different for everybody. I mean, it's just it's just so weird I mean, it's just the weird the weirdest thing other than that. It's like basically identical the stock I3 install only that the only difference is the bars at the top and Apparently you put any of the modules you want to put in are kind of done like you do in DWM where you create like an exit route Script or whatever and it's done there. It's I Don't know. It's gonna be an interesting video. I don't understand Why though that's gonna be my conclusion like I don't understand why what I Mean I understand Wayland is the future, but is this the future? I mean Yeah, like this doesn't feel like the future X or still seems perfectly fine to me and things work until I Like they had there's a there's a window manager call. I think it's called river and see that doesn't have an X word version That's just Wayland That makes sense to me like a window manager that just exists for for Wayland sway doesn't make sense to me because it's just I3 Why then don't you just use I3? It doesn't make any sense to me. So that that's that's gonna be something I'm gonna split because I want to The only thing so far that it's added is a pain in the ass of trying to get the displays to work You know, I hasn't added anything that I3 doesn't already have other than it uses Wayland and Wayland itself doesn't actually prevent Presents you anything as of right now that Xorg doesn't And in fact it actually causes you problems because it's you know, I'm still in you know early development So it's it's a weird It's it's a weird time to be alive because you know, we have this thing when we've had Wayland being promised to us since like I don't know what 2013 2014 or something like that's been in development for a long time And it's still not here. Yeah, I mean, it's it's closer to being here than it's ever been before but it's not here yet and They're gonna have to convince me they're gonna have to do some really good convincing it to me to tell it to Show me why I need to switch way from an Xorg you know Window manager like DWM to something like sway And you'll notice that the suckless guys really haven't even Attempted to go through and look at Wayland yet. Now. I know there's a fork someone's going to In the comments below say well, there's a fork at DWM for Wayland I don't even know if it's still developed like it's been it's like three or four years old at this point. I don't know if it's still being developed and Again, I asked you why I mean it'd be it's just it'd be different if you're just developing new things on top of Wayland To take advantage of awesome features, but no one at least so far has been able to explain what those awesome features are yet so Yeah On that note contact information you can you can get in contact with us in many different ways Apparently I doxed myself on discord in my last video So if you want to get in contact with me on discord go watch my last video Somebody met I got a oh I got up at like 3 o'clock this morning, and I got a message in discord from somebody who watched that video, so Excuse me. It's not a big deal if I ever created a discord for My channel you would have gotten contact with me that there. Anyways, it doesn't matter Anyways at the linuxcast on Twitter you can subscribe to all of our audio feeds and stuff that at the linuxcast.org There's still not a website. There'll be a website eventually. I'll get there eventually. I promise every week I don't work on it every week Like at all. It's been on my to-do list for ages. It's not gonna. It's not gonna happen anytime soon eventually You can contact us via email email at the linuxcast.org you can support us on patreon at patreon.com Slash linuxcast Thanks to all of our patrons. I'll thank you by name at the end You can follow Tyler who goes by Zany on the internet on Odyssey and YouTube both of those links will be in the video description I List those out, but those URLs are fugly as fuck. So that'd be fucking ugly as fuck You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash linuxcast I think that's everything. So each and every week Tyler and I go through and we scour the interwebs for one news link each and Usually it is There was okay, so before we jump into this just just I mean just there is it There's the GNOME developer released a broad blog post this week talking about why they don't have a ton of features in GNOME I so wanted to pick that one, but we've talked about GNOME and bitched about GNOME two weeks in a row So I didn't do that one. So but anyways, we choose a news link Tyler Why don't you tell us what your news link is this week? mine is Microsoft just essentially blew up or The title of it is Microsoft just blew up the only reason you can't use a Linux desktop can't use a Linux desktop. I Think it's great because Microsoft has announced that they're releasing with the release of Windows 365 and cloud PC, which is essentially just going to be a Windows I guess Virtual machine or something that you can connect to through your browser and run any Microsoft program that you need to which I know I Know my sister has to use like I think it's called word 365 or whatever Where you use the Microsoft Office suite in the browser and her school like requires her that she uses that one because they can Spy on her like essentially make sure that she's not cheating through it And now I don't see this as a big Good thing for Linux and in general at all I don't I don't see many Linux users being like, oh, yes, this is amazing But I feel like for the few people out there who have a specific Microsoft app that they were required to use that's not already Web weaponized Official it's definitely an official word All right So when I saw this I was like, you know, it'd be cool because maybe it's kind of like xCloud where you could if it Gives you power over having how much GPU power you have you could maybe run some games in there But it doesn't it doesn't is they all use the same probably integrated graphics or something And you don't know how expensive is because this is going to be for businesses only so it's not as if If it's going to go through and change the average Linux users thing, but you know what I was thinking If this was like if there was like a free version of this that we could actually you know use I'd use it every once in a while because I have got this brand new webcam And I need to update the firmware and of course you can only update the firmware on Windows and I don't have I have exactly one Windows PC in this entire house and it's used by a family member and I can't get that away from her so I'm not gonna be able to do it from there So I'm either gonna have to install Windows or take my chances on installing it through wine, which is not gonna go Well, like I downloaded the .exe, but apparently I don't have wine install on this computer. So The I got on trying to jump through the hoops and try and get it to work Yeah, especially when you're talking about trying to date a device. Yeah, I think they're wine. Oh, I know Yeah, so that's why I was thinking like, you know, if this Windows 365 thing with that would work. I don't know if it would even work If you had to pass through the device somehow, but again, it's not something I'd pay for I mean, that's literally Something I'd use maybe once a year So I'm thinking I'm thinking when it and tell me if I'm wrong here But I think the the benefit could be is in the enterprise space. They're could vary It it makes a lot of sense for a company to be like well We can just use Linux on all of our machines and that will keep them from age and keep them from lasting longer So we don't have to make another investment And if all of our employees can use the same apps that they're used to using just now We have to tell them just make sure you're in the browser Like I mean they most employees know how to open Chrome They probably do it for work. If not for work, they do it to browse res it read it when you know, the manager is not watching So, I mean, I think it wouldn't be that I don't think it's that hard of a Stretch to say that for enterprise. This could be very beneficial Yeah, okay, I can I can see that I was gonna completely disagree with you until you talked about getting the machines to last longer that that's a very good point But it's not gonna save them any money so we've talked about this before the the golden rule of Corporations is there and for to make money. They're still going to have to buy a PC license And unless this is a success significantly cheaper than just buying a windows license, they're not going to change So now if this was free and They can sell Linux on it and then they'd save a ton of money I could see this or if Microsoft offered this for a significant discount over actually buying an on-premise license Again, that is something that I could see working But unless it significantly saves them money the vast majority of people aren't or best majority companies You're just gonna continue to use Windows 7 like they're super gonna plan on doing anyways, right? So well the way I the way I was thinking about it is I mean again This is completely speculative because we don't know the pricing on it But if it's say to get the service for because again, it's focused more towards enterprise It would make sense that like the license for to something Let's just say like a hundred bucks a year for you know, a hundred devices just throw it out there a hundred bucks a year. I don't like Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think that might actually be cheaper than in three years Upgrading every PCs like with an OEM license or something. Well, I'll say the way the way enterprise businesses work by license is they don't pay for The upgrade they pay per year for a subscription. So, okay, right? So it's a per-seat subscription for every license that they have and or So where they're gonna look at is is is this Is this Windows 365 subscription going to be cheaper than the subscription? We already have if if those numbers add up then they'd switch to this but Then they'd also have to look into how much are they gonna have to train people install? Because I mean they're still gonna have to have some kind of operating system on their computers Whether that's Linux or Windows, you know, whatever. So if they move to Linux on their on their, you know actual boxes You know, then they're gonna have to have IT staff that are trained to use Linux because I used to work in IT and the I'm gonna tell you right now. Most IT people are idiots They're very much trained. I mean, I'm sorry all you IT's guys out there, but it's very much true You get your search and something specific, right? You know your search You know, you're very smart when it comes to network management or you're very smart when it comes to You know, whatever whatever search you have you know those things But if you haven't gotten certified in something that you I mean, maybe you know some stuff But you're not gonna be as trained up as the business is going to require you to be on those things that you're not certified to actually manage So and I was very much the same. This is before I it was right out of college And you know, I was a Windows guy So I got certified in Windows and Network Plus and you know all this stuff that you know You need to be but I had no clue how to like I didn't I mean I'd use Linux like one time until 2002 And it was open Suza. I've told that story for I had no clue about Linux on the server None whatsoever and they didn't want me touching those boxes because I didn't I mean I like I had no clue What I was doing so and and that's just in my experience. So In this case that if they moved to Linux on boxes They'd have to have Linux certified people in order to do that and that means training people to do that Obviously as we know unless you're installing gentoo, it's not hard But it's still it's it's going to be something plus they're gonna have to worry about also interacting with in-person or in place on On-site Like servers and stuff like that because that stuff still it's still going to be interacting between those clients and the servers so if they're Move to Linux are gonna have to deal with a whole different way of interacting between Linux boxes and Windows servers because I mean Well, people still use servers on you know using Windows So it's gonna be a whole thing is that means there's this layer upon layer of actually training people and put You know, it's all again all about money. So I don't I don't see In terms of enterprise use this changing much of anything because they're notoriously not gonna want to spend money now The question becomes as if the big this becomes available in the consumer market because then it becomes a little bit more interesting again, it's gonna depend on the cost it's gonna depend on what you get because if You don't have access because the like said before what I was really interesting to see is if this offered you Could like say you could get a box like a a server where we're running Windows 10 just from Microsoft for a subscription fee that has a like a you know a core i7 and 16 gigabytes RAM and you know an SSD and a GTX 1060 or something, you know, let's let's install fortnight down that bitch. I want to you know so but from what I saw you only get to choose the specifications of like the the CPU the RAM and the Storage size you don't get any access to anything in terms of GPU, which is disappointing for me. I Think that's disappointing for a lot of people because it would have made this a half decent service. Yeah for for regular people Yeah, I mean All right, can we just I mean let's move on for just a second. Let's talk about something. I Don't know about you but I am subscription fatigued Like all right, so yeah, yeah a spot a flag at Disney plus I got you know all these different services that I have to pay for every single month and for crying out loud like When you subscribe to like Disney plus or whatever like oh, it's like 799 that doesn't sound like much But then you also have to you have 12 of those things that are 799 and that adds up to a lot of money over time For a subscription service for enterprise makes tons of sense, but for For consumers I'm just so sick and tired of subscription services. I miss the days where I could just go and buy a piece of software, you know Yeah, I've done it's it's taken a lot of work to get down to where I'm at Essentially, well not just me because I the problem with subscription services Is they don't just affect you like normally they creep into your life because you have family too because a family plan so you end up just a Massing a ton of unnecessary subscription services We finally cut it down here to where we just have Netflix and I think we also have like prime video But or whatever that's called, but it's only because my sister has prime So yeah, cut it down to two like we don't even have Spotify anymore I've cut down like I don't have YouTube premium or anything like that anymore. Hey Subscription services are they they are handy for stuff Like I don't know like Netflix is really nice, but also at the same time when you have 14 different Netflix like subscriptions for everything that you do in your life Yeah, all of a sudden you're paying, you know, the price the same price is rent on subscription services It's funny because for years we bitch to complain about the cable TV bundle, right? Like we like why the hell am I paying for the Hallmark channel? Nobody need nobody watches Hallmark Why the hell am I paying for the boxing channel? Like I'm never gonna watch boxing. I don't need that channel So when it'd be nice if I could just say you want I want to pay for this channel I don't want to pay for this channel. Well, they gave us exactly what we want now We're paying for this channel in this channel, but what they didn't tell us what they were gonna charge is $15 for fucking channel It's that but then also people are well not just people all of us in general easily get into the habit of Yeah, starting to watch one thing that's somewhere else and then before you know it you've been paying 11 months like for us Hulu We paid 10 months of Hulu. We watched Hulu Zero times throughout that 10 months So alright, so I do another podcast. It's called the through cast and we've been doing it now since 2009 And it's transitioned over the years to different things. We started off with technology and stuff But for the last five or six years we just review movies We just it's just three guys. Nobody watches this damn thing and there's like five views for for every web So it's like dumb But we have fun It's just a couple a few friends when we watch a movie each a couple every other week or something like that and for the last one oh You know we take turns choosing the movie and my friend Ricky he picked a movie called Raya and the Last Dragon and it's on Disney Plus and Normally, I just go hey pirate Bay, you know, I'm gonna download things But I couldn't find it on Pirate Bay in any good quality. So Yeah, I like fuck it. I'm just gonna subscribe to Disney Plus It'll be for a month, but I know for a fact that five months from now I'm still gonna be paying for Disney Plus and I won't have visited it one time now I didn't now back in like January or something like that. We reviewed Hamilton and I did remember to cancel at that time So and now I know that if I can remember to cancel it for this month and just pay for it this month It's not gonna be bad and then I won't have to subscribe to it again till the first ejection stuff comes out So let's see that's that's what that's where subscriptions gets you and they know it too Is you'll subscribe because you want to watch one thing and then you'll just forget about it Well, yeah, well then you'll you'll remember to Like you won't remember to cancel it until they've charged you again Like like this month I was gonna cancel Spotify, but I didn't remember until the day after they charged me So like we want I'm gonna put a note on I'm gonna I'm gonna go through and do it next week But I won't remember to to to to cancel it until the day after they've charged me for the next month So it's not how I kept that's how I kept YouTube premium for so long I was I'd be like, oh, yeah, I've got to cancel that and check. I'm like, I've already paid for it Might as well Might as well keep it for the next month, you know Even though we should what we should do is cancel it right then because you actually still get that month Like I'm not gonna stop giving you the service. It just won't charge you again. Um, I still don't do this I don't think that no, no, no, it's like no, you see you think if you cancel it That means your service gets turned off I mean, that's the way it works with like like if you call your cable company and cancel your service We're gonna shut you off right away. You don't just get to keep using it for the month. All right That was zooming off topic that completely I mean All right, so what was your your art cool All right So my news of the week was that Linux Mint 20.2 is now available with new features and tools and the big news on this one that I Think has kind of gotten shoved under the radar a little bit It's because what we talked about this a few months ago when Linux Mint decided they were going to try to push people to update more frequently, right? And I'm actually on the wrong This is the thing. Yeah, I was showing you It's gotta go go over the right thing, but anyways So they're going through and they've created a mechanism to remind people to upgrade and supposedly it's not as bad as They thought it was going to be it's not as is naggy as people thought I was going to be but it still exists So I haven't tried Linux Mint 20.0 to yet I don't know that if I even will because honestly at this point Linux Mint get off the LTS man. You're very boring like the LTS was so last year Like I understand that I understand it's supposed to be stable and stuff Okay, but there's a reason why I use arch because I think the LTS is boring. So well that and I actually That now this doesn't directly relate to this but it is sort of Linux minty and the fact that just stuff doesn't change but Can we talk about the fact that stable distributions? typically At least in my experience. I've had more issues with stable distributions using older Linux kernels Then I have with something like arch like the amount of problems I've had with arch when I install or update and something break in Honestly, it's maybe happened to me once the entire time I've used it But the amount of times I've tried to install something not rolling rolling release something like Debbie and Linux mint or anything and running into issues because the LTS kernel doesn't support something. So like if my computer goes to sleep, it's completely broken or whatever Like have you had more issues with that? I? Haven't but I think it's mostly because well at least on this computer I I haven't because I don't use LTS stuff on this but on my older computer I haven't found that but I think it's I think the LTS stuff is better for older computers If you're running newer hardware the LTS kernels just not for you Even if you're even if your hardware still does the couple years old your the LTS kernels from I mean, it's from like February of last year ish, I think So I mean even if your your hardware was like a year old It's really it's really it's not it's going to be as well supported in that LTS is something that it's more cutting-edge so The LTS is real the kernels going to be much more for You know the older hardware, and it's the same thing. I'm not like I know I don't think that that like them the Ubuntu LTS actually uses the LTS kernel. I think it uses Like five dot. Oh, I think it actually might be on five dollar eleven or something like that. I don't even know So it's all Ubuntu. I should know this I think it uses I think it almost uses an 11 kernel. He's like five dot ten dot four or five or something like that Yeah, I don't I don't remember And they go through and they back port the kernel into the LTS At least Ubuntu does I don't know if the next myth doesn't not not Like I said, I don't know the problems thing is just probably because Your computer doesn't like those distros or something. I don't know. I Got new hardware. So yeah The one with what's hilarious is that when I first switched to Linux after I got off from Solis I moved to Ubuntu mate and I loved my day for the longest time But for whatever reason this computer here will not run anything with my day on it I don't know why my day just completely free and it doesn't matter what distro. I'm on if I'm on Ubuntu Linux Mint Arch like Montage is completely crashes. I don't know why and it's it's obviously something to do with this computer because Other people run Montage is perfectly fine. So And you've got a 3,800 X, right? Yeah, 3,800 X and an RX 580. Yeah Well, I mean, I don't have the same graphics card, but I've got the same processor I don't quite as have as much RAM as you do See I Will say this so the problems that I have sometimes very well could be this crappy ram because this this ramp is off-brand It's like a time-tech or something. It's like it's not though. It's not it's not like Bargain been or whatever, but it's it's not what is it called team? It's not team ski, but like whatever it is some Team what is it team something branded ram? Oh, they're so bad I've had buddies and buy them cheap out because they're the cheaper type of ram and have horrible problems with them Team elite. Is that it? No, I have no idea Yeah, it's called time-tech is the one that I'm using and I got 64 gigabytes for like 280 bucks It was like it was a good buy like I could get 64 gigabytes for 280 or I could get 32 for gigabytes for 280 I was like we want 64 gigabytes sounds like a good plan You know Also That that wasn't that's not bad duck duck go. You actually found what I was talking about. Okay. I Don't even that happens occasionally. Yeah It it's only when you like so I was explaining it to a buddy when it comes to duck duck go I'm like look duck duck go is a great great search engine Here's how you have to know how to use it though, right you want to find something that is not detailed or Or Like you're not looking for something Discussionary like a reddit forum talking about it forum post when you're not looking for a discussion about what you're looking for But maybe the Wikipedia page Blatant stuff that's just got the info there Duck duck go will find it. It may not be at the very top top result There might be something else there, but it's definitely gonna find a lot of what you're looking for Once you start talking about forum posts or anything like that Google just yeah, G-bang. It'll be there. Yeah, just use your bang All right, so we have done a fantastic job. I'm not talking about anything. We're supposed to talk about today They I don't know if we got hyped up on sugar something like that But our our attention is wandering all over the place. So we didn't talk much about Linux meant 5 or 20.2 that has the cinnamon 5 desktop I'm reading just from its faucet doesn't actually go through and tell you what it's new in cinnamon 5 It has the file renaming tool, which is just a The dumbest thing I've ever heard before why this is just so typical Linux man. We talked about this before but Like there are other file renaming tools. You don't have to spend your time developing a file renaming tool Do something with your time that's better than that. Okay, Linux meant just what are you doing? Hey now. Hey now. They've spent time. They've got sticky notes looking fantastic We all know everything that every Linux user. I mean desktop user in general needs is better sticky notes like Obviously, all right, so I'm curious But so cinnamon uses the kaha kaja file manager, right? Is that a thing in is it just me or do I seem to remember that's a fork of Thunar Or did they did or did they go through and do that, you know on their own because it doesn't actually say as far as I know I mean, it'd be dumb if it's not a full if they went through and built that thing from the ground up That's even dumber than I thought it would be Because I mean why I Supposed to open up Google and actually find out Is I guess the core of the issue when it comes down to us and talking about Linux mint It's just they they're not doing anything innovative it's just Okay, so Taha is or how are they fucking it? You say it is a fork of Nautilus from Genome 2. Okay, so Then that makes me less angry about the file renaming tool because if this was a fork of Thunar It would be dumb because Thunar comes bundled with a file renaming tool like so it doesn't make as much Problems so anyways it doesn't end Again totally on topic What is wrong with us if it's wrong? Anyways, it also comes up in the sticky notes replacing g-note Because they wanted to go through and do their own sticky notes. They decided that was a very good You know use of their time because g-note was that's all what we've Everyone's been asking for any time I go on the internet everyone's like can we please get better sticky notes like, okay, so Linux we need to talk about this every time it Linux has problems, right? I just made a video about file pickers, right? We have problems, but you know audios have been a problem for 30 years You know, we're in this transition to wait to Wayland Mint developers, you know find yourself an actual problem and use your development skills on that Okay, I know this is it's a it's a It's very out there. It's an out there thought, you know, it's definitely weird But instead of spending I mean they probably didn't spend a lot of time making their own sticky notes app It probably took them a couple hours It's a sticky notes app. I have no programming skills whatsoever and I could probably do it And you know how I do it I just leave g-note on there You know, that's how I would do it or I would go into g-note and do a search and replace and just call it something Different you know just change the name. It's fine. You know, that's how you do it I mean I had to do something from the ground up. It's it you're not You're not gonna find a way to make sticky notes. Oh, no, it's gonna be a sticky notes app. It's so dumb Okay, um, you know what it is for 40 minutes into this thing. We haven't even started the main topic yet We do this every week. Okay. So first of all, what even is the main topic? I don't even know what the main topic is Topic for this week is it's telemetry. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's telemetry. Okay. I did Do you think telemetry is okay? Okay, so I'm gonna surprise you on this. I Think telemetry is okay In certain gonna be a but yeah in certain situations telemetry is perfectly fine as long as it's user-aware and user-opt-in Telemetry, I'm actually in in favorite of it actually because I want my open source projects to be able to collect that information As long as I'm aware of it again as long as I tell them it's okay So that they can actually make things better You know, like I there was a big brew ha ha when canonical and Ubuntu started to do this for Ubuntu and People like we're freaking the fuck out for like ages about them putting in in the in the welcome app or whatever can we send back some telemetry to canonical servers and You know, like I didn't have a problem with that at all like like I don't like Ubuntu But I like the fact that they're able to have some information on how people to use their operating system so that they can make it bigger But I only like it because they've given people an option to either turn it off or not You know give it to them in the first place, you know, and it's right up front It's not as if you have to remember in the back of your mind after you install Ubuntu to go shut that off It's like in the welcome app. You know what I mean? So it's not I Don't have a problem with it like as long as people know that it's there and it's easy to turn off And it's it's the the off button is presented to you to begin with, you know For me, I will go ahead and say this. I think it's The only difference for me is I think opt-in is completely okay But up so for one not and not like just just telemetry You don't have an option not okay and then opt-out for me is still Unacceptable like opt-out is still you're pushing the limits like I don't I Think opt-out would be okay if it's again welcome screen first thing or maybe even in the install It's like hey, are you okay with this? That's maybe okay, but I prefer just everything to be opt-in because That opt-in is essentially me walking up to you and asking hey, would you be okay with sending me this stuff? Opt-out is like hey, I'm gonna take your shit, but if you're not okay with it I won't yeah, it's like a it's like a friendly robbery, you know, yeah friendly stick up I Can agree I can agree with that. I Don't mind opt-out like you said as long as it's the off button is right there in front of you Like it's presented to you by default like every time You know you log in or for the first time or you it's in the like you said it's in the installer Then I'd be okay with with opt-out But it's not okay if it's put in like a sub menu inside the The you know, whatever if you have to go through and it's on the user to remember Yeah, because then it becomes your Hulu subscription you keep remembering like I think we should turn that off But I forgot and I'll do it next time I turn the computer on Yes, that'd be that's that'd be definitely be a problem The reason why I chose this topic was because the audacity thing has was going on when I type this in and People freaked out like they like lost their minds Over the the telemetry audacity was gonna happen and it was for multiple reasons one it was opt-in And we had no clue how they were going to make it opt-in We didn't I don't know if they were gonna have like a splash screen They would they said it was going to opt-in But they worry the way they went wrong was because that they were going to give the data to Google and Yandex Which is not great, right? He's not great at all So here's a question for you We've already said that telemetry is okay in search circumstance certain circumstances Does that your opinion on that change based on what company? What that company is going to do with the data so like we we You and I we're not really a boot two fans, but we trust canonical with the data that they collect I mean, we don't expect them to take that data and sell it to Microsoft or Google or Yandex or anything like that. They take that but I mean We trust them to do that. We don't know that they're not doing it It's possible that they could be using Google analytics to parse that data It's I mean, I don't think that they are but it's possible So the question is does your opinion on telemetry chain based on the company that is collecting it It's a good question for me No, because if I the way that I look at it if I opt-in and I'm okay with sending a company Like let's say like canonical my usage data so that it can benefit them For me, I'm already The illusion that no one has that data is already gone so somebody definitely has it and Canonical if if it helps them improve the product and helps them improve what they're doing and It takes a lot of work off them to use something like Google analytics. I'm fine with it. I honestly am I could care less the The the only thing that changes for me is when that if I opt-in and give you that data and You tell me that you're going that you that you're going to take that data and use it for the benefit of the software product OS whatever and That is clearly not going to happen That's when I have a problem with it because you've essentially lied to get that data and that's the problem with audacity is Giving them that telemetry is not going to make audacity a better product It's going to help them monetize the product right that and They don't need telemetry to improve audacity. We all know what the problems with audacity are like all you have to do is open Audacity, you know exactly what the problem is. It looks like it came from the 1980s. That's that's the problem Okay, audacity is the audio processing behind audacity. It's fantastic. It's really really good But that UI is horrible. You don't need my telemetry data to to know what's wrong with audacity It's that's the problem. It's like Having a car that's been totaled. You don't need to do a survey of the car to find out what's wrong with it It was in a head-on collision. Okay, we know what's wrong. All right I think I think that like really to be honest the the the only problem with telemetry for something not not in general for something like audacity but In this specific example of how Muse Group has done what they've done with audacity. I think It's almost insulting The way they've gone about it because again, they were like we we essentially need to They didn't word it like this but again paraphrasing. We need your telemetry to make audacity better And that's just blatantly not true. You don't need anything From from me and how I use it what operating system I'm running what's going on with audacity Even even though that's true if they just been, you know, honest about it like we're just going to collect to we're going to collect telemetry to begin to collect to have a data set of how the app is used in certain, you know operating systems when it crashes and So on like that, you know Whatever, you know, we've already talked about how telemetry is okay, but It's they've been so shady about it, right? It feels like you're dealing with a mob boss Where when you walk away you have to count your fingers afterwards, you know For whatever reason the people that they've they have running audacity just continually to make these Changes to the their policies. I mean, let's face. I mean they've had audacity now since like april Or some of that april or may they've done nothing Like I know obviously I understand a total ui refresh would take a long time a couple years probably, right? But in the few months that they've Had the product they've done nothing but piss people off Like like if they'd come out, you know It doesn't take anything like hire somebody on fiverr to do a ui refresh design It doesn't need to be functional to say you're not we're going to give you a hundred bucks You know kid your your mother's basement We design an audio unit based on you know on audacity, but make it look modern It would take them a few days, you know, whatever and you know, they put this out there You know, they got this back from the fiverr guy. They put it up on right This is what audacity is going to look like when we can you know implement it like this is what you have looking forward to You know and everybody like whoo, this is going to be so awesome And then you know what? We're going to collect some telemetry and people are going to be like, you know It's okay. If it's going to look like that. I'm I don't you have my data here You know, here's my phone. You can have my data. Um, they didn't do that. No, we've gotten nothing that's the thing like I use an android phone. I'm perfectly okay with google collecting everything that they want to know about me You want to lie because I did something for it, you know, I mean like all the data that they have when I say, you know Move to the next song or play Breaking benjamin. I'm on Spotify. They're using the data that they've collected from everybody to be able to do that you know that is Uh, it still doesn't make me car breaks down and you know, you need someone to come pick you up It's because of that spy device that you have that someone can come and save your ass. Yeah There is a benefit to it, but I Where audacity really messes up is that If they could come out and be like Just give one reason of how like Getting telemetry from users is going to benefit the product just one I don't care what it is just to prevent like they could have just been like Getting getting usage data will help prevent the rare crashes that occur with audacity. Like think about it Have you had audacity crash on you recently? No, oh, yes all the time. But um, exactly Those programs I've used on and off for a long time and I haven't had it just crash So I mean if they wanted to explain it like there are rare crashes where Audacity does just bite the dust and we'd like to be able to fix it Or we want to get it to work better on certain hardware You know, we're we're going to we're going to collect the performance data based on the hardware that you have So that we can optimize future versions for Certain hardware, but different Linux kernels different windows installs whatever Yeah, I mean that that's exactly right. But I think even beyond that if they just I mean just from a PR perspective perspective if they went through and say you want this is what we're working on You know, it's going to be awesome. You know, we're going to put we're going to put throw some money at the UI We're going to make this thing so cool. You'll never going to want to look at adobe products again You know, it's going to be amazing Um, you know All that that's all they had to do and then you want we're going to click flum tree Yes, they would still have a problem with the google and the index stuff But it wouldn't have been such a A shit storm because people would have had something to look forward to right now All we know is audacity still looks like audacity has looked forever And as far as we know, that's not going to change. All you've done I actually have an interesting question. Have you heard at all from muse group that they're working on a UI refresh? No, all we've heard from them is that they're going to collect data and then they um What was the most recent one where they um We're going to oh, there was the privacy policy where they could send all your data to russia and um If you're 13 years old, you can't use it anymore and all this stuff. So it was it's just been one Uh, it's it's been like watching a train wreck and it It's the funny part is is I have read an article that where they did an interview with I can't remember who it was from muse group, but it was a higher up at muse group and they are working on a UI refresh That article in that interview is the only place on the internet that I have found muse group or Any person from there referring to them working on a UI refresh, man publicly like I I honestly just want to say this is a company that doesn't understand how pr works at all Because yeah, I agree. Can you um, can you think of another company? That's This bull Well, I think so Here's the thing. I think that they thought that nobody uses audacity And I think they found that out that that's not true. I could all like a lot of people use audacity No, and that does not just linux users people use us on windows. They use it on mac and you know schools use it because it's free You know and I think they also thought that they open source part of it that People I think they thought that people just used it because it was free Uh, and I thought that I think that they thought that the open source Part of it just didn't matter to people and they found out how very wrong they were You know because the open source nature of audacity is A big part of why audacity is good. Um, it but it's also When you take over a an open source project, you're also taking over the community that has supported it for years and You can't just come into a community that size and in you know, and Bandhammer all of your ideas Uh in your way of doing things even though you technically own the project now That's not the way open source works. You have to uh assimilate Into that group and run it that way and then slowly make changes because The open source communities are very uh Anti-change like we don't want to be changed and if you want to make a change You have to do it from within within the culture of open source and they just said no they did not do that They said that basically we own this we're going to do whatever the hell we want with it And that's just not I mean that's you're right. It's just horrible horrible pr and but and it's more than that it's It's just the way it feels because if you know in addition to being horrible pr it feels like they're criminals, you know Like it feels shady af right and And that's not something that anybody really wants to be associated with and it's um I mean and people look at their other open source project, which is a muse score or something Is like that's open source too, but it doesn't have as big of a community as audacity does not even close And they just recently started charging like for back-end service to that and people are looking like oh my goodness That's what's going to happen to audacity like they're going to start charging for for audacity and I don't think Then I mean if they'd handled this perfectly from the start You know showing people what they're going to do with it and stuff like that and you know Just collected telemetry the right way. I mean, yeah, they would still had people, you know booing it, but You know whatever just every day if they've done everything right It's possible that they could in a year or two after they've made the changes that we've been asking for like a UI refresh And you know, whatever they could have implemented some kind of service in the background Like a called service of some kind or whatever. I don't know in order to monetize it But right now it just makes it look like eventually they're going to tack on some kind of monthly fee for to use audacity Uh with nothing like and nothing in return. It's It's not a it's not it's not a good look And you know, right it's a horrible look for a company. That's why I've thought it's it's been Quite a funny spectacle to watch it I mean not for the company and for the employees, but To see a company just Magnificently ruin an investment. It's yeah Quite a I would say was it funny if it would if it didn't affect so many people like The free note situation was hilarious because nobody uses free note, right? I mean very few people used free note like that was utter that was utter hilarity We we sat back and had popcorn. It was awesome. The thing is with audacity is like everybody uses audacity if they ruin audacity we're all screwed because um, I And I've went through the last couple weeks trying to find an alternative to audacity they exist, but they're all horrible Um, they're bad. I mean somebody pointing me towards ocean audio, which they don't know how to spell their own name First of all, uh I recorded a video in that and it sounded like I was in a like a cave with bats or something It was really it was really bad. Um now again Probably my fault because I don't know how to use it, but whatever I downloaded what was a doer or something like that. Oh, yeah, I've heard of that. Um, that's like a professional like DAW, right? Uh, and it has so many buttons. I looked at one took one look at that thing. I was like I'm not smart enough to do that. I installed it Like I didn't even bother because there's it's just way too complicated. So, um Anyways, so I mean there's like there are alternatives, but if audacity goes bully up I'm Well, I'm screwed because I even finding trying to find alternatives. I haven't had a good luck with it So and I mean so far so far from what I've heard there's a fork of audacity called tenacity That is going to see quite a few develop uh, or quite a few developers Focus their attention on it. Like I know I know the fork is gonna happen and it has happened It's like there's like four four of them for big ones. I mean it's been four thousands of times But there's been four big ones One of them has been driven out of business already because they they were bullied by another one of the other forks, right? Like if you if you go into the thread of that when that guy said he was stepping away from the product I mean he's feeling like getting literal death threats from people um Like first of all not a good look for the the open source community people calm the fuck down Well, actually, so I do have a good question for you. So Uh, because I can't remember who I talked about this with Before this, but it's just an interesting question. Do you think that people or employees of use group? Are deliberately trying to do stuff like that to keep the More successful forks that are coming up to essentially just kill off their development Enthusiasm by sending death threats or anonymous like shit just their way I don't Think so, but I really couldn't answer and I wouldn't really want to answer just in case, you know for legal reasons I mean if I come on said, yeah, they're definitely doing this, you know, um, I'd probably hear from the lawyers Um, because this seems like a company that would sue people And this just seems like a company so so I probably shouldn't answer that but it wouldn't that's why I think it's an interesting question only because Mu like it it's one of those things where you really want to be like muse group wouldn't do that But with how much shit they've done at this point, it's like This is gonna come across as the most xenophobic thing you'll ever hear me say on the podcast Um, but I'm gonna say it anyways there If muse group was based in great britain Like solely great britain. We wouldn't be having any problems with it Even if they were based in like brazil or you know, um south of africa or something We wouldn't be having a problem, but because they're based in russia Okay, and there's this think that maybe they're part of the russian mafia and they're out to get people um I'm gonna lie across my mind Well, I mean we all know just how amazing the russian government right? I mean It's so democratic over there, right? I mean, it's just a pristine I mean And everybody loves their their president. He's got like 95 96 one of the presented vote not them. I mean He didn't keep going on there It's not as if he killed off or in jail his political opponents or anything. That's obviously not true Um, and then I got a I got a comment on a on a video I think was on yesterday's video that somebody like you're more worried about putin than you are biden's regime I was like, yeah, I'm more worried about putin than biden because you want to know what we can get rid of Biden's ass if he starts pissing and stuff we can all we you know We have elections and we have political opponents like trump is still here If biden becomes bad, we'll just get trump trumpy boy. Come back, you know We have a political mechanism for this shit. Um, it's it's it's weird. Okay That was one of the best tangents we've ever had We're gonna have so much trouble for this shit, man All right, I'm just gonna put this out there if you if you're from russia and you're still listening You didn't turn it off after that First of all, thank you for still listening. Second of all, I have nothing against the russian people I feel I mean, I I pity I pity you because you're in russia. First of all snow. Fuck snow. I'm just saying Come on, man. The weather there is fantastic Apparently it was like it was like 96 degrees in Moscow like the other day. So um, yeah Climate change not a thing obviously But anyway, what was this what I was saying like if you're if you're russian you live you live in russia Put your snow boots on but also I love you man. You you're a woman. You you guys are great your president peace trash And next week tyler will be doing the the podcast with someone else because obviously i'm going to die He's gonna have me killed So I was gonna say if you disappear next week I I've been it's like the the the movie beef of indetta. I'm gonna be black bag. But um, they're gonna uh, I don't know if you realize this but I'm a big guy. So they better bring some big people Bring me along. I'm just gonna say um because I ain't going lonely All right Uh What are we talking about anymore? I don't even know. All right, I I I think we better just stop there and move on to the picks of the week We've been going for an hour and four minutes and we still have picks of the week to go so All right All right. This is a good podcast. Yes, it's uh, well I wouldn't go that far All right, tyler every week You and I we come up with something like an app or a website or something of the week That we've been using that we think is awesome and we want to recommend to other people try out too What is your pick of the week this week? mine is a Pretty simple, um little app. I believe it's As far as I know it's for um ubuntu, but I think it I think you can use it other places like Um, I think they also have just a plain old like genom extension Like forward as well but um It's a simple program just to keep your screen from locking or Pulling up the screensaver And I know there's other ways of doing doing what this program does But I thought it was really neat because my grandmother told me about it. She goes. Yeah I just I found this little thing in the software center. I applied it And she goes she goes now the dang thing doesn't doesn't like lock up when I walk away from that's adorable I know So I had to add it because that's the first first app that I've ever had a family member find and it's like Oh, this is really nice. So this isn't so much your pick of the week because it's granny's pick of the week All right, that's cool. Um Yeah, I've used caffeine before but I've never Really had a use for it lately because now it seems that for the most part this problem seems to have been fixed on most that's up environments Where if you and also most of them have it where they have reasonable defaults now, it's not like Because I can't remember what ubuntu used to default to I think it was like two or three minutes Was it locked the screen time? See I actually have now my biggest problem lately has been other The opposite where I can't for whatever and get my computer The screens to go to sleep like every once in a while. There's something in the background that just keeps it awake Um and usually it's steam because like steam will not let your computer go to sleep like for whatever reason it just won't um So And in the stupid thing about steam is if you don't put it out the right way It's up there in the tray living forever and I don't have a tray So I have a DWM. You won't notice stuff like that Unless you got the tray patch like I'm pretty sure I have dropbox running for no reason like I don't use dropbox But I'm pretty sure it's running. I have no clue if it actually is because I don't have a tray. All right Um, yeah, caffeine's awesome. All right, so I normally go through and recommend an open source application I usually try to do a floss application This time I've picked one that's not open source. It's called ever do It's a to do app, but it's more of like a project management app. It's really cool and there's tons of stuff and The free plan is amazing usually with like project management stuff that you you don't get very much good stuff for free And with ever do you pretty much get the whole app for free And then if you want to actually go through and get Like the pro features you just have to pay for it. Like you pay for the software like 80 bucks and you own it It's yours. Um, it's not a subscription service now. They do have a subscription service if you want sinking Uh, but that's just separate. That's like three dollars a year or something like that. Um, it's not it's not yeah It's not bad at all. Um, so if you get the pro features, you don't get sinking but You don't really unless you absolutely need your project management service on multiple devices sinking is not a big deal So I I love the fact that they've taken that out You know, because I I don't really need that. It's just really cool all the rest of stuff so they have sub tasks and they have Uh neat ways of organizing stuff They have shareable stuff between like teams and stuff like that that you can enable if you have Uh the sinking and you know, if you pay for sinking, it's a native application for linux. It is also available on mac and, uh Uh windows and android and ios is everywhere And it's was really good. It's really well designed And even if you just use this just like for a straight up to do app, it's good It's maybe a little overkill for for that kind of stuff. But if you do, uh If if you're working on projects that have a whole bunch of sub tasks and stuff This is really great And I found it's better than to do it simply because it offers more abilities to organize your stuff in terms of creating different projects and tags and stuff like that is it doesn't have to do us cool functionality of like, um Typing in i'm going to do this next week on tuesday and then scheduling it for next week on tuesday It doesn't do that really cool, you know like like that, but um It does allow you to go through and do, you know repeat, you know Repeat tasks so you can schedule it for every day or a certain time and it'll do notifications and stuff guys It's really good If if you need the power of it if you're just doing it to do app. It's probably a little overkill But yeah, it's good links for both of these and everything else we've talked about will be in the video description Or in the show notes if you're listening to this in just the audio version Um before we go because I should go through and take a moment to thank our current patrons Devon Marcus Manglund Donnie Sven east coast web chris michael mr. Fox american camp Thanks everybody for your support. Thanks everybody for watching We'll see you next week