 Hi everyone and thank you first and foremost to my panel by hi everyone also in the audience and everyone who's watching at Home or in their office now welcome to our panel on energy security and the European Green Deal Of course a war in Ukraine has highlighted really the vulnerability of European Union energy supplies and underlying the importance of the energy Transition to Europe's energy security now before the war. I know everybody knows this, but it's always a good reminder Russia was responsible for around 40 percent of the EU's gas imports a figure that the block now wants to bring down to zero this decade And while Europe is burning more coal and seeking energy from alternative sources that could temporarily raise emissions It wants to accelerate the transition in the longer term now a number of CEOs have also called for a strengthening of the key pillars of The Green Deal by increasing ambitions in areas like the European carbon market. I'll bite with more support for Domestic industries. They're also seeking to increase the specialized workforce needed for the transition to cleaner energy So I could not be more delighted to have this all-star panel with me Pedro Sanchez the Prime Minister of Spain Kitana's now Zedda president of the Republic of Lithuania and a board president and chief executive Officer of Vattenfall France Timmermans European Commission executive vice president for the European Green Deal and Esther By jet the president and chief executive officer of Novozheim, so thank you all for joining us I know we have one hour and we have very very big topics to discuss so without further ado Prime Minister Let me start off with you How can the EU at the same time deal with the short-term challenge of ensuring energy security? With this urgent need to scale up the green transition Well happy to be here. I think that the European Union is facing three Three major challenges in the energy field. The first one is an unprecedented spiking gas electricity and food prices second the need as you said to urgently face out gas oil and coal imports from Russia and build our energy independence and security and supply and Finally to deliver on the climate goals And I think that we need the four four things in the European Union the first one is and I would say the foremost We must quickly increase the share of renewables and electrification Second we need to accelerate join gas purchase This is something that we've been very vocal in in the European Council and also to diversify Suppliers via higher LNG imports and pipelines from non-russian suppliers third we need to bolster the use of Biogas myo methods and of course renewable hydrogen and finally thinking long-term. I believe we need to I'll trade to actualize to modernize the rules of the European electricity market, so I think that this war and the big lessons that we have to take from this war is that renewable energies is not only Fundamental question to face the climate goal, but it's the best allies for the European Union for its independence and it's A certain ego to me. Thank you so much president Zeta. You've you've taken actually some pretty impressive measures to You know be energy independent to cut away from Russian dependency. Can you talk us through some of those efforts? We started it very early because our long history experience to deal with Russia was their experience of manipulations blackmailing and This was a reason why we started to implement the first very important projects in 1999 23 years before the war in Ukraine broke out. I have in mind the oil terminal in on on the coast on the Baltic Sea and then the game changer In our independence story was LNG terminal in Klaipernad built in 2014 But those are only partial measures to increase our security. We developed also The infrastructure of pipelines first of all the pipeline to Poland gas interconnection Poland Lithuania Which could satisfy the needs not only Lithuania and Poland, but also other Baltic countries and even Finland We have Baltic link Which allows us to import electricity from Sweden and We have little link which allows us to do the same with Poland So you have very broad range of Infrastructure projects, which allowed us recently Beginning of April to say enough is enough. We are ready To refuse to buy any energy resources from Russia oil gas and recently even electricity We are ready to do this First of all because we would like to be independent But we also feel the moral duty not to pay for these atrocities Even indirectly but still for those atrocities in Ukraine because from our money or using our money Russia is paying the finance in the war So I think Lithuania is very good example of strong political will Consistency no matter what the government was in office. There was certain Consistency to reduce our dependence on Russian energy resources and now we are in the final stage And of course one more important project we envisage to implement and until 2025 is energy electricity synchronization projects, which allows us to connect our Electricity grid to the continental Europe and disconnect from the former Soviet Union Braille System so it will be the final stage of our long way and I think this is very good example to our colleagues in Europe. Just you can do the same Yes, you need the time, but you know this was probably Because we didn't have any illusions a garden Russia So having very long centuries long experience to deal with Russia We didn't have the illusions sometimes illusions are good You can feel happier you would like to see reality brighter than it is But we didn't have this and it allowed us to implement those decisions Which are critically needed for Lithuanian people and for our moral obligations and moral contribution to the Ukrainians fight for the freedom. I mean it's about resolve But it's also having that timeline right and you had much more time than other countries now have and let me come to you because of course Vattenfall is a leader in renewable energy in Europe your objective Which is extremely ambitious is to deliver a fossil-free economy in one generation. How would you achieve that? Well, we are actually well on the way And I think that we have to achieve that if we're going to be competitive in the future Because to me this transition is not only about mitigating climate change, which is of course Immensely important and now we have the geopolitical perspective on top of that But I also think it's a matter of competitiveness for companies in the future So when we phrase our strategy like that, it's clearly our business strategy It's not our sustainability strategy, but it is a sustainable business strategy So we have started that journey and as you said we are one of the leading Renewable energy builders and operators mainly in offshore wind in Europe But I think in order to succeed going forward and especially with this more squeeze timeline that we now see It's important to not exclude any fossil-free energy sources We're going to need everything we can get our hands on and that goes for wind power solar power Nuclear and any other kind of innovative solutions that can be that can be helpful here And I think that what we need to do now is to focus on what we can do with the technology that it's already there The capabilities are there and the financial markets are there now We need to widen the bottlenecks in order to get these projects up and running much faster than what was the case before And I'm very glad and welcome the initiative last week also from from EU on actually shortening the permitting processes for building new Wind power or solar power, but also needs to include Infrastructure because there is a sort of possibility to do this But we really need to release the forces that can make it short-term Sure Timmermans I guess that the main question right now is first will we get an oil embargo from Europe? And what happens if there's a gas embargo from Russia like how will we deal with that? Well, first of all, we'll deal with it. We'll be able to deal with it will be hard difficult But we have enough solidarity in Europe to deal with it You saw when Poland was cut off Germany immediately jumped in when Bulgaria was cut off Greece immediately jumped in and that's how we will react There is no way Putin can blackmail us with his gas and if he cuts us off. He's going to hurt himself more than anybody else We have our reserves. We are now going around buying LNG and pipeline gas from other Producers At the same time we offer these producers a long-term relationship Not just based on fossil fuel But also based on the green hydrogen economy of the future and most of these countries are very interested to be part of that You I believe you will see the Mediterranean will become the Mediterranean basis will become the center of the world's new energy Supply which will be green hydrogen and Europe will be part of that Africa will be part of that The Gulf will be part of that and that that's extremely exciting because it will deliver a sustainable source of energy that is almost limitless because of the the way we can create electricity through solar panels and offshore wind So I think that's the future in what time frame. Sorry in what kind of time frame Well, I think I think we will be we can free ourselves of Russian fossil fuels between now and 2027 at the latest In that time, we will have to do a couple of things first of all We have to convince companies industry and citizens in Europe to save more energy because the cheapest energy is the energy you don't use and What seems like a small step for an individual becomes a huge leap if 440 million Individuals take that step so we can still save a lot of energy that will already mean less money in Putin's pockets Secondly, we can speed up our transition to renewable energy and one of the elements indeed is Speeding up permitting we want to create to go zones Go to zone sorry where you would do permitting once for a whole area and then the individual projects Do would not have to be permitted? One after the other that would speed up Hopefully from now seven to eight years to one year in terms of permitting that makes a huge difference in Renewable energy generation and of course rooftop solar if we fulfill our ambitions and rooftop solar in the whole of Europe 25% of all the electricity we need in Europe will be coming from rooftop solar. That's an incredible Amount and and then as I said the third part is for now we will need fossil fuels We need to go and buy fossil fuels in The Gulf in Australia in the United States and elsewhere But we need to do it collectively so what we're asking is European Commission is from our member states to allow us to Negotiate these deals on behalf of the EU. It's voluntary But still I think it will be better if we negotiate on behalf of the whole EU Instead of individual countries going to Qatar and driving up the price because they're negotiating different deals So that's in a nutshell what we're trying to do. Yeah, and we lost the Prime Minister about that Esther talk to us a little bit about what this means for your company So what does the transition mean for Nova Zimes? It is not only for Nova Zimes We are an enabler of part of the solution that all the items that we have put on the table The good news is that the technology is ready The science is here the technology is scalable the solutions to not completely eliminate fossil-based fuels I think fossil-based fuel are going to be part of the future But in a smaller component if one word is very strong here in this cop It's the word of resilience the word of ductility the word of agility having a broader toolbox I think we live in a pivotal moment and the crisis of the terror tragic world in Ukraine has Magnified the dependence we have on fossil fuels and we live in a very unique moment that we can use as an inflection To move a little bit faster to the food to the future There is technology available to make gas from biomass. There is technology available to make bio ethanol that can be replacing a Gasoline that by the way it also fits dogs for animal for every ton of bio ethanol You make a ton of very high-value protein to use and fulfill another big need that we have office How are we feeding the world? There is technology available of carbon capture that we can give a second life to that to that precious carbons So all options available the question is you made it how fast and how I'm moving faster And he I'm putting a little bit of a I mean, I don't have all the answers But maybe options that we could have we could stop subsidizing the past Today 70% of the incentives that they are putting in the for the industry of energy They go to fossil-based alternatives only 20% they go to renewable energy We subsidizing the problem. Let's use that precious cash to move fast forward to make that transition a little bit better Let's bring You mentioned regulation. We need we need to work more better stronger more collaborative and embrace our Responsibility also to show how good could like on bringing the regulation that accelerates the change That brings the solutions that they are ready more agile and that they can be plaque and play into the systems That we already have It is that the gap is big the gap is huge the options are available We have to collectively Governments companies a regulator agencies Find the path on how we can move a little bit faster in many little Incremental steps, and I want to ask the Prime Minister about LNG in a second But actually mr. Timberman's I guess when you look at the green transition Will it be halted as we use more fossil fuel to deal with the Dependency with Russia and then does that transition get accelerated or does it get slowed down? well, I think Countries will make different choices. So the idea that was before the war Predominant that we would use natural gas as a transitional energy carrier moving away from coal to renewables Now that you don't want to import that from Russia You have to change your plans, which means that in some cases some countries might stick a bit longer to coal But if you then can speed up The introduction of renewables Exponentially then in terms of emissions you might still come out better And of course, I'd love to to exit out of coal faster and not do this But the modeling we need to do is based on that. Okay, you use coal a bit longer But if we go faster on renewables then in terms of our emissions, we could still be on the positive on the positive side My biggest worry frankly today is not the science. It's not the technology It's not even the finances is the risk of social disruption The idea in large parts of our society is that people feel left behind or not involved People are dying because of these enormously high energy prices And I think that's the issue we need to address the Green Deal will succeed if we have support of a whole of society But the whole of society will not support us if people feel left behind I think that's a much much more Urgent issue than many people believe who think that in terms of the transition in terms of science and Prime Minister I know this is something that it's close to what you're trying to ask about LNG in a second But it's making sure that I guess the families That struggle the most and have the higher cost of living will not suffer too much in this transition indeed indeed Well, I believe that security of supply is a collective task and As France Just said I believe that southern Europe can provide alternatives to this Huge crisis caused by by Putin's war not only with our energy mix which in the case of Spain 57 percent of our Installed capacity comes from renewable, but also since we have 30 percent over 30 percent 34 34 percent of The total regressification capacity in Europe is located in Spain 50 percent of the LNG Estorage capacity of the whole Europe is located in the Abiriyam Peninsula, which is the problem that we are facing well physical bottleneck Problem, which is of course the lack of interconnections and that is why I think it's important what the Commission has released last week With the re-power European Union that puts specific commitments in order to Develop these interconnections between the Abiriyam Peninsula and our European Union neighbors and Just last comment on this I think it's important that these interconnections and make compatible not only the gas Pipeline, but also the green hydrogen interconnection because that's That's our our bet. This is our commitment our political goal Go for renewable and the green transition. What's the hardest in that? It's easier said than done. Is it financing? No, I don't I don't think I think it's a it's a question of you know, I would say lack of political will As President of Lithuania said I think it's important that nowadays we open our eyes We see that we have alternatives Let's let's do it and let's go for these interconnections because at the end of the day the southern Europe could provide a Alternatives to this terrible mess that Putin has caused but president Zeta if a war where the other doorstep of Europe Does not focus a mind of politicians and does it if it does not bring up this political will then what will? To understand so the question is we're talking about political will to make these changes Do you see the political will within Europe to make a substantial change? I? See and I see that Green Deal agenda is the highest priority in many countries and in my country, too And this was only the part of the job. We did so far diversification of energy roots But another even probably more important part of our job if we are looking long term is Green Deal agenda and the are Dedicated to do our best in order to achieve very significant significant progress until 2030 and Let me express it in some figures for example right now We import about 70% of our electricity we need 70% this is a lot and even with this diversification of of The energy electricity supply of course this is not sustainable to pay so much money on the import and until 2030 we have this objective to achieve cell sufficiency in This regard and of course the main pillars are on sure wind of sure wind We also envisage to implement very important important broader projects in the Baltic Sea to offshore wind facilities together taken together 1.4 EGVAT and It will be possible to participate in the tenders already next year So the companies I really use the opportunity to invite the companies to participate in this project And also solar energy Lithuania is the producer of very good solar solar panels and we are already export these panels to other countries and Taken together we envisage to increase the capacity of renewables from one gigawatt right now I'm up to seven gigawatt until 2030 and you know that first trigger of Green deal in Lithuania by the way was closure of Ignalina nuclear power plant because according to the our agreement with European Union just It was possible to to finalize our negotiations Regarding the membership in European Union only with the precondition that Lithuania Closes the Ignalina nuclear power plant old type of Chernobyl reactors in 2010 and We did it and the rumors and the fears were huge that electricity prices will Become double as expensive as before but at the same time It was huge motivator Trigger to start to look for alternatives and it was the first stage Renewables revolution in my country of course taken together with very favorable private-setting policy Of our government, but still sometimes the bad things provoke good shifts good good processes and Now we have just to continue the work. We started one decade ago president from now What is the hardest thing to achieve? So given your goals The hardest thing to achieve probably is stable generation because we every everybody knows that Renewables is not the source of stable generation. Probably we need some basic generation In order to provide the stability To our energy system, but having in mind these alternative Disabilities to import the electricity from our neighbors. I think this is the work We can we can do successfully and we would be we would we really Would like to be in the first lines. We would like to be the four front runners in this process of switching to do green energy and Me myself I personally initiated the green Lithuania initiative and mr. Timmermans was a part of this event the first festival or first conference took place one year ago and we try to gather municipalities business community NGOs and Ordinary people just to share the ideas to share the views and to do this good work for Lithuania to reserve green beautiful Lithuania Next generations and and this also goes to public private partnerships. I guess what can private companies role in this be? Well, I actually think that my main concern is the speed of the development right now and the reason I'm concerned is that the demand is clearly there right now My feeling is that the business community is moving faster than politics Which is probably a good thing because that means that we can join forces But I think that's also because a lot of the companies have realized that the risks Of not changing and not transforming into a sustainable value chain and business model It's much higher than the risk of remaining with the asses And I will give you three examples because I think that this development is not happening in the same kind of value chain As we are used to see in the energy industry and the first example is The fact that we joined forces with SS AB a steelmaking company and LK AB which is a mining company in order to produce fossil-free steel using Green hydrogen rather than coal in the process and this has actually been very successful The qualities of the steel is exactly as good as traditional steel and the first off-taker of it is Volvo The demand is skyrocketing So there could have been you know a sale of much more of this fossil-free steel right now if it was already on the market But the reason we were able to develop it was that we looked at this value chain end-to-end Not exactly what is your piece or your piece and what has it looked like in the past? But how can we solve the problem and create a new business model the second example is Regarding a sustainable aviation fuel which is a project. We're doing together with Shell Lanzatec and Scandinavian Airlines Using captured carbon from a biomass fire power plant Combining that with green hydrogen and producing electrofuels and the third example is something that we did just this week Actually is where we start the project where we'll build the world's first hydrogen producing Windmill where it's integrated from the beginning. So not only speeding up the development of offshore wind electricity production, but also actually producing green hydrogen directly in the wind farms and piping that ashore and Here we see a huge demand from different kind of companies and industries that would like to integrate this from the start So I think that yes the challenges are there But so are also many of the solutions and there is nowhere else to look than at ourselves to solve this Because we are where we are and we are the ones here now that need to make this work What can private companies mr. Termsman do do sorry not I was going to ask mr. Termsman What can private companies to Anna's point do to help the advantages that that they do long-term projections and the disadvantage of politics because support is Not so stable as it used to be in politics is that politics has become extremely short term and so if we combine the long-term planning of Private industry with the need to also address short-term issues of our citizens then we will be successful And I don't want to be you know rude to anyone, but the fact that energy companies are now pocketing windfall Profits incredibly high profits where citizens are suffering because they don't know how to pay their energy bills and Some companies behave as though this were just a fact of nature is not helping to create as a long-term cooperation between Companies and politics you know you have to understand that if you want the population to support what we're doing You also have to address their immediate needs and the immediate needs of most Europeans today Is what are you going to do about these energy and food prices that I can no longer afford and there? You know companies cannot shy away from that responsibility either It's our responsibility to take care of how we organize it But it's also the responsibility of companies and I would especially address energy companies to understand That they are not helping if they don't address the issue of excessive profits Yeah, just a question to our my dear friend friends as commissioner For energy don't you think it is the time to also Have a new electric Electricity market regulation Yes, we need we need to look at the design of the electricity market because it is The more we introduced renewable energy into that market the less the present system will create the The right price for the customer But that's not something you can do overnight That's something we need to look at very carefully because it took us 30 years to build this European electricity market So we have to be careful not to damage it By taking sudden decisions, so we have to step by step Redesign adapt the design of the electricity market. I agree with the Prime Minister on that it's a particular challenge for countries like Spain where the The part of renewable is already so big and then the price is dictated by a relatively small part with very high Natural gas prices. I really understand that predicament But we have to make sure in making these adaptations that we don't throw away the baby with the bath water But we need to adapt it step by step But step by step is what five months because again the problem is timeline You can have the best intentions in the world, but if you don't adapt on ever changing worlds, then we're left behind Sure, sure, absolutely, but we also have to to to get the best possible technical advice On how to adapt that we have an agency that looks into that that agency has given us some advice on how to Start changing the commission is putting some proposals on the table for the leaders to consider at the next European Council We are proposing for instance in emergency situations to put a cap on the price If otherwise the whole market will be disrupted, so we are making these changes, but we have to be very careful I insist this construction was built over 30 years And we need to make sure it continues to work because at the end it will deliver the cheapest possible energy to our citizens Which is renewable energy Esther We have to look at this big gap that we're facing with with the eyes of the toolbox of options that they're going to close it And and then we all have to seek on the way each of us on how we're going to make it if each of us find the Seek for the reasons of why that we could not make it. We also have shareholders that have very short-term Interest in mind, but then we seek for the shareholders that have long-term interest of mine I think we have to put the narrative that we bring the population Understandable that there is no jobs in a dead planet. There is no future in a dead planet. There is no no options In a world that goes in a in the wrong direction that we have to create those options and then yes work Collaboratively we have the responsibility to bring those solutions and to be cost competitive. We need help from the regulation We really need help on the acceleration that that accelerates the future and Then we need to also seek from the full you mentioned that a little bit friends It's an energy is very important, but it's also food. That's a big crisis That it's on the table where again there are solutions available But we have to look for up the answers beyond the answers of the past Same way that for energy the answers are not anymore only fossil base. We're looking at other options is the same with food There is a need of increasing The protein demand for fulfill the nutritional needs of the population. Well, that is the option of alternative proteins That brings fulfills the nutritional needs, but leading to much lower impact on the landfill Only if 10% of the protein demand would be from alternative proteins that would relieve 50% of the European land that it's used for agricultural that will fix alleviate a lot of the tension that we're facing here, but here again Options at that technology works, but we need to create that value chain approach Where regulation also needs to be in the loop on how we're moving faster boulder into the future I'm just saying I agree with you 100% and if we don't change our ways Our children will be fighting wars over water and food. It's that serious So we are faced with a fundamental crisis, which is the climate crisis and the biodiversity crisis But I also want to draw your attention to the fact that somebody who doesn't know how to make it to the end of the month Yes, can't be bothered with the end of the world They want us to face the issue of the end of the month And that's how you bring them along in a narrative about the end of the world And I'm just saying as a politician that that is my biggest worry today Social disruption because people feel left behind Can I ask you that because I spoke actually Mr. Timon is to a chief executive of an Italian energy company He was saying you know windfall tax is a good idea. So why have some governments in Europe still not put them in place? Why are they reluctant I? Have no idea. I have no I just don't get the logic of it and you could do several things You could say okay in these certain situations where you have these excessive profits, we will we will Tax that but only in that situation. So if that's no longer there, we will stop immediately with that taxation You could do that or you could say we will tax part of it and the other parts Boys and girls you will invest in renewables and then we will not tax it But now you said 20 percent only I think it's even lower than 20 percent. Okay? I was generous So, you know we really need to force them to put more into renewables as well and who's them who's them? Well, especially the big oil companies. They're the ones. I think they're only investing four percent Oh, yeah, no, I was talking about the subsidiaries from the government. I'm just talking about oil companies four percent Yeah, and that's that's that informed that yeah, and then they said we doubled our investment in renewables. Wow four percent So we still have a world to win here, and we need to push them more Anna I would I would like to add them one perspective because I completely agree with the importance of protecting the vulnerable Groups in society in making sure that everybody's sort of long in this journey because otherwise it will not happen I also think it's important when considering updated market designs to remember that the fundamental Problem is a demand supply problem. So we want to have more supply of fossil free Electricity and energy in Europe and how do we sort of foster that? It might not be a market design issue only there might be other things as well And when it comes to investments into new energy production, that's investments that will have to last for 25 35 or 40 years So the fact that the sort of prerequisites in order to invest invest are fairly stable It's also very important for this to happen And I think that if there's gonna be a taxation I think it's important to target the right things as you rightly point out there might be you know Fossil fuel components that you would like to taxate in order to speed up this transition But it needs to be carefully done so you don't at the same time hamper the investments into new renewables and I can't speak for the oil companies But I know that in our case 50 percent of our investments go into new renewables And pretty much the rest goes into taking care of the existing renewables So I think it's important how you tailor this Prime Minister, can I ask about renewables because you have a huge the ambitious goal actually for Spain from 47 percent of the energy used Thanks to renewables in 2021 by 2030 you want 74 percent of electricity generated by renewables. How will you achieve that? Well by the way, Spain was one of the first countries in Europe That we face all this problem of the windfall profits and to intervene the market. I don't know why it is For the mainstream politicians also economies Really normal to intervene the financial sector when it doesn't work But it's so difficult to intervene the energy sector or the market when it is clearly not functioning in Europe. I mean we've been advocating for a Regulatory review of the electric electricity European market since 12 months before the war We started to to speak about it in the European Council Also with the Commission and I think that we need France to speed up the reform because definitely It doesn't make any sense to pay Or to have this spike gas price And that is that is at the end of the day poisoning The electricity market and of course the electricity bill for SMEs industries and families So and and if we want to have social support for this green transition We need to be much more ambitious at the European level in order to face these These challenges that that we are now, you know sharing but of course we are very committed with with the green transition You know just to have Why do you think it has been so slow? Well, I think it's important. I mean it's it's difficult to move status quo But at the end of the day We are in a very defining moment Those governments like the governments that we're present here. We're very committed with the green transition We don't want to use the pandemic or even the war as an excuse Not for going to this green transition because we know what is at stake The thing is that of course as I said before it is difficult I don't know why to intervene the energy market Wills the financial market when it doesn't function Politicians and also economies they go for the an intervention and it's clear that we need an intervention at the regulatory framework Of course, we're putting a lot of money. I mean from the next generation European Union funds Spain will receive in the next year's 70 billion euros We are allocating 40% of those 70 billion euros on in green transition but of course if we need to To keep the social support and understanding to this huge challenge Which represents the green transition and the climate change? We need also to actualize and and to modernize our electricity Regulatory framework at the European level if we don't do that We are going to put in a risk all the green transition And we are now witnessing the effects on the ETS market the financial speculation that the ETS market is suffering and of course The electricity bill for families as a means an industry. It doesn't make any sense that we pay You know gas prices when we have a Very competitive energies such as renewable energies. I Just wanted to to stay and use this opportunity to say that in order to increase the resilience of our Society and our economy to Unexpected price sharks. It's very important to find modern Smart solutions for energy consumers and I I don't know how a widespread is this experience But we use so-called remote prosumers policy in Lithuania It means that actually every single resident of the multi apartment house has the right to acquire the stake of solar plant and At the same time can enjoy for example 25 years the electricity prices zero There is no need to Be just afraid of unexpected price sharks because you are at the same time consumer, but you are this at the same time producer of the electricity and We have the initiative in Lithuania where the state institutions are already involved in this project and Presidential office just wants to take the leadership in this showing the way that other institutions can participate to But this is important that also the house calls Could be ready to participate in this project too Of course, this is an issue probably of social inequality because the people without the Initial capital they cannot participate in this program and it brings even more social inequality in the society But this is very good Instrument to invite to encourage the people to use modern technologies modern Techniques in order to be a part of the game and one more issue I would like to touch is of course energy efficiency We didn't talk about energy efficiency, but this is very important to you because we have untapped Potential to reduce energy consumption per GDP cap Very chubby a GDP unit in my country and this is a part of the problem I think we have to do more and We have to continue our renovation program of our multi apartment houses and we started very well, but so far we are in the process and If we finalize this program, I think our energy efficiency in the country will be much Larger than it is now Annaberg I mean to a point actually that the president made did does renewable energy need to be cheaper than fossil fuel or Has the war in Ukraine actually changed that so in terms of pricing to make it You know very appealing and when what kind of energy, you know, what kind of timeline could we see that? Who wants to answer first? It's the cheapest already now. Yes. It's already It's not all of it right because you have a huge capital investment to start off with Yeah, but if you look today at building new Electricity production or electricity generation and it's clearly The cheapest way to do that is to to build onshore and offshore wind and solar for sure So so that is clear already today Then you need an energy system which you have an holistic view on because you need to have different kind of fossil free energy Sources and different kind of flexibility and storage in order to be able to manage the The total system, but I think it's important once again to remember that the fundamental problem here is discrepancy between demand and supply and The knowledge the capability and the capital to provide that additional supply is there So there's a regulatory framework or political decision-making Need to make sure that there is a widening of the bottlenecks to sort of enable all of this to actually come To market as soon as possible, and then we're talking about Securing supply chains. We're talking about these permitting processes and the timing We're talking about providing land and sea to actually build on and also take care of the sort of Social concerns around how to build these new business opportunities and let everybody Take part of the upside of that and for those where it might not be possible Actually take care of the vulnerable groups but to facilitate this rather than creating Uncertainty about the investment prerequisites is going to be critical. I mean you mentioned wind It also has to be a hundred percent reliable I live in the UK where they're you know wind farms, but if there's no wind we had to resort to coal last year Well, I just want to pick up on the on present as a house and his point about energy efficiency If we double our efforts in refurbishing buildings office buildings official buildings housing We will save an additional 20 billion cubic meters of gas every year 20 billion cubic. That's huge at the same time We will immediately bring down people's energy bills because if they have solar panels and heat pumps instead of what they're doing now Their energy bill would drastically be be lower and even if they rent The rent increase through this refurbishing will be a lot less than the decrease in their energy bill So they make money and they get a much better house at the same time So we need to really speed up that and we need to give the good example by beginning with office buildings with schools with Hospitals Spain has a massive program on that and it really works And if you do for private housing you bring you can show people your house is better And your energy bill is is lower and at the same time that money is no longer going into Putin's buckets So it's win-win-win-win, and that's where we need to speed up and we can do that And it also brings local jobs. These are jobs on the spot. This is smaller medium-sized enterprises doing that So this only advantages and the money is there and and you know Spain has presented us with a Recovery plan that is that is triple a really very good and part of that is also to put money into that Lithuania is doing exactly the same thing and that is bringing us really huge advantages that are bankable with our citizens as well Agree Esther and now building on your comment on cost We have to be True to ourselves when we look at the real cost of one option or one alternative and versus another Yes, green an energy green fossil green alternatives to fossil base or bio gas from biomass bioethanol They are competitive from a cash cost point of view. They are very competitive then You need the capital intensity, but what is the real cost of the fossil base alternatives? What is the cost of the CO2 emissions? What is the cost of flooding? What is the cost of a climate change? What is the cost that we all absorb with the health aspects open or insurance? Those are just hidden costs that they are not absorbed by anybody. I really As a thought at the concept of carbon pricing putting a real cost Making the hidden cost visible. It would truly Drive the momentum to the most cost competitive alternatives. We are which are the biobased solutions Which are the green alternatives? They are the most competitive But we have to self-help us that when we look at the cost and that we compare the economics We really look at the full a PNL not only the one of one little one little component Prime Minister, what will be your biggest challenge in actually moving to 74 percent renewables by 2030? as as France said, I think it's the most important challenge for politicians is to keep on board the majority of our society and And and for that, I think it's it's important that they see the profits of this green transition and Try to avoid measures that could have a regressive impact on those who are suffering the Consequences of first the pandemic before the financial crisis and nowadays the consequences of this terrible war This is very important issue and I would like to join the Prime Minister of Spain by saying that this is very important to get all the groups of our society on board and even if the prices of Carbons will go down. Maybe it will happen in the future We have to keep this motivation to go forward because this is not only about the price This is about the future. This is about the green deal. This is about the climate change objectives and I think this is the main challenge, but at the same time the main task for the politicians to Involved all the groups of the society into this very important project And what do you think is the main task for for both? I guess private sector leaders and and politicians I think that the clarity is important and we now see a sort of Alignment around the long-term and mid-term targets and that's really good But we also need to see enough action short-term in order to speed up What we are now supposed to do So I think that's where we need to go to work together to make sure that we can widen these bottlenecks In order to sort of release the forces that we have now because again the technology the capability in the capital is there And now we finally have an alignment on the long-term view as well I think it's interesting as you said that that these days the companies are Long-term and politicians are short-term because usually it used to be the other way around at least according to the sort of public discussion And and what does that say and how do is how do we sort of align on what needs to be done here? And now in order to drive the development soon enough Is it a murder? I think it's it's so important that we combine long-term goals With short-term successes because that's how you keep people on board for this long-term journey I think that is of the essence and we can do that. We can do that in this refurbishing of homes We can do that in offering more charging infrastructure for people who consider transiting to electric mobility We can do that through cycling paths. We can do that through greening cities Which which is happening in many, you know Just imagine in Spain if you really green a city more than you do now you bring the temperature down you bring the air quality up 400,000 Europeans die prematurely because of bad air quality every year. You can do something about this immediately So combine this long-term goal We have with immediate concrete visible tangible results for our citizens And they will be on board with more financing or as we are well I think I think because of this war sooner or later Europe will be faced with a question of financing We're now scraping the bottom of the barrel, you know to to finance repower you we're doing everything We possibly can but the budget is the budget and we can't go beyond that so sooner or later There will be a moment of reckoning when our leaders in the European Council will have to ask themselves are these Is this money we have enough to face the challenges? I think the answer will have to be no once we understand how Important it will be for us to help the reconstruction of Ukraine I think that is of essential importance for Europe But that is something our leaders will face at a certain point a very difficult discussion But I think this is something they will face sooner or later. Mr Think it all boards down to collaboration To embracing that we all win or we all lose And and we have to do this together There is the short term and the long term But actually the short term the long term it's many many short terms one after the other So it is working collaboratively Setting the path on what it's possible and how we're moving and then celebrating success the point You mentioned about the narrative to the population that we bring Health and enhancing the education education, maybe that's enhancing the knowledge and understanding of how good looks like Of course, I worry about the short term, but it cannot be only the short term So building that narrative Collectively on how success looks like and then moving jointly through technology through solutions through Inventive through regulation that moves us up in one direction We're almost running out of time So I want one final question for each of you and what is your priority in the next 12 months? Personally to make a difference in the green energy transition So if you have one priority that you want to make sure gets done in the next 12 months Prime Minister Well, I think that it's to give certainty Political certainty and political will that the Spanish government is committed with the green transition And we are not going to move back, but to move forward in this in this endeavor and and of course to Accelerate the execution of the European funds, which I think is crucial for not only the economic recovery But also the modernization of the Spanish economy President Zina, I will continue my green Lithuania initiative and My efforts will be dedicated to get as many Institutions business entities and people on board participating in this very important project and a work I will focus on two things first of all I will continue the reshuffling of our asset portfolio and our investment into even more fossil free electricity generation and secondly I will work on these Integrated value chain partnerships because that way we can not only create good business Opportunities, but have an impact beyond our own size even if we are one small part of this fossil-free steel cooperation steel producing Industry is emitting seven percent of the world's total CO2 emissions, so if we can make these value chains work we can have an impact way beyond our size Frans Timmerman's my top priority is to cement European unity in the face of Russian aggression That is my top priority for the next 12 months. We need to stay united We need to stay strong because Putin will not stop if he's not stopped in Ukraine And he's going to look for cracks in European unity is going to try but what she's been doing for the last 20 years trying to divide us so that he can rule So my top priorities European unity to do that the Green Deal is essential to do that repower use Essential to do that is moving forward faster in that direction is essential But also in creating global partnerships for LNG and beyond that for green hydrogen That would be my top priority for the next year as your budget Do a fair share of the transition first as a responsible producer We already reduced 46% of our CO2 emissions and we started in 2018 Continuing that direction and raise a scope 3. We already have a scope not only scope 1 and 2 also scope 3 Reductions of both the talk, but then Ensure our solutions a part of the neighbors. We're not going to fix the wall We but we want to be a stronger component a stronger enable of green alternatives for fossil-based Sustainable nutrition be a stronger Enabler through biology through enzymes through microbes through proteins of a better wall Well, thank you so much. Can we please give a big round of applause to my wonderful panel Pedro Sanchez the Prime Minister of Spain? Jutanas now Zeta Lithuania and a board friends Timmerman's and his dear budget. Thank you so much. Thank you