 Well, we really meant it to be a side hustle. It was like gonna be a hobby, you know what I mean? And then it was just like, oh, this is crazy. I didn't realize that this would be kind of like a thing so fast. And so we were doing it at the house. And first it started in the sunroom and then it was like the sunroom and the dining room. Then it was like the sunroom, the dining room and the living room and desk run through the middle of the living room and desk run through the middle of the dining room. And then we moved into this office that was 3,000 square feet. And we're like, we'll never outgrow this, you know? And now we're like, how do we break this lease? This is way too small for us. Hang on, hang on. If you're not subscribed, can you go ahead and do that right now before we get on with the video? Helps us out tremendously. That's all we ask and we're back. This is Startup to Storefront, the podcast where we inspire entrepreneurship through truth. Today's guest is Matthew Herman, the co-founder of Boy Smouts. What started off as a hobby, turned into a side hustle, turned into a thriving business that even caught the attention of country music superstar, Casey Musgraves. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. It began as a candle making experiment in Matthew's kitchen, trying to buck the gender norms of how candles have been traditionally made and marketed. Matthew and his co-founder, David, combined both masculine and feminine scents into products like cinderose, polyamorous, and rhubarb smoke. They then took that philosophy and applied it to underwear, creating a line with the option of either a pouch front or a flat front, and leaving it up to the consumer to choose the best fit for them. So listen in as we cover everything from how their sense of humor inspired the company name, how Boy Smells is truly an extension of Matthew's personality, and we find out who made the first move in the collaboration between Boy Smells and Casey Musgraves. Now, back to the episode. All right, guys, welcome to the podcast. On today's show, we're talking to Matthew from Boy Smells. Matthew, thanks so much for joining, for people listening, just tell us a little bit about your company. Yeah, so Boy Smells is a, I guess I put it best as a personal product company. We make candles, we also make underwear, and this year we'll be launching a lot of exciting new products. I can't talk about all of them, but their self-care and scent adjacent, I guess, is the way I put it. And we really view the products that we make as the things that you like, kind of intimately interact with every day. So whether that's like the products you use in the bathroom or the fragrance that you spray on yourself or the candle that you light next to your bed or the underwear that you slip on every day, a lot of those moments can be throwaway moments, especially the ones in the bathroom. And I think that we view all of those kind of moments before you put on your clothes for the day, or as like, I like to call it your drag for the day, whether that be like your yoga drag or your business founder drag or whatever it is that those, all the moments before that, before you get dressed to like, do the roles out in the world that all of those little touch points along the day should be really identity affirming, you know? And so I always joke, kind of like, no one's as feminine as the body wash and no one's as masculine as old spice, you know? Like a lot of those like, the marketing around a lot of the products we use every day are kind of like, be more beautiful or be more feminine or be more masculine, you know? And identity is really complex and multifaceted, sometimes contradictory. And I think we view a much more kind of like holistic view of identity and wanna make sure that the products, the sense we make are as complex as the identities of, you know, our customers and who we are in the way that like the people we know identify. So we like to use a word at Boy Smiles called gender full rather than genderless, where everybody's kind of like, gender and identity is more than one thing. So it's really about like walking away from binary ideas of identity and rather be genderless, which is like, neither male or female or straight or gay or anything or fluid, it's nothing, you know? We really like to view gender full as like, we're all kind of like a bountiful source of like an identity spectrum and that the products that you use should bring fullness to your identity versus kind of like making you identity neutral. It's something we believe in like quite passionately. I also use this metaphor. It's like one day when we make toothpaste, you know, I wanna make a toothpaste that's like pink peppercorn and rose, you know? Cause that's like the complexity of like my identity and like brushing your teeth could be this like identity affirming moment versus it kind of being like, oh, I need to be fresh and that's what's palatable for everyone or you know, that's safe or that's why I've been taught to like, you know, my breath to smell like or whatever. So we really like to break the mold when it comes to the products we make and the scent profiles that we make for our candles and make sure that, you know, it represents the beautiful complexity of the people who buy it. That's so beautiful. I love the consciousness of that. As you were saying it, you know, it's funny. Usually when we interview founders, I'll jump into like, what was your first step in terms of the product? But it sounds like you're coming at it from a very different approach, right? You're not making a candle for the sake of making a candle. It sounds like or other products. It sounds like what you're really doing is kind of like you mentioned, you're affirming where people start their day in some way. And so, and you know, it's shockingly clear to me as you're saying it that no one's done this before, right? You're totally right about like, when I buy a scent, it's like midnight blue and like that clearly is very much a male, like a male in quotes, scented thing that is so obliviously male, right? It's almost like Axe body spray to the point of boxing you in to like, this is what you're supposed to do and what you mean is so different. Or it's like, it's like, hey, here's a candle that smells like you live in a log cabin and like only wear a car heart and you know. Right, right, you have a beard, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I have a lot of car heart, but you know, I always like, I like to mix it with my pearl necklace and you know. I love that. So what was your first step in this? Was it just like you wanted to bring a product into the world that was more tailored to everyone or what was it? I started out in fashion and I think the dualities of product have always found, I've always found to be like really, really intriguing. I even like wrote my like thesis at fashion design school about it, but designers like Alexander McQueen, for example, who like really got me into fashion, like they mixed like hard tailoring with really emotional drapery, like sometimes in one garment, you know? And like that tension of like holistic view of cloth and like versus like linear tailored view of cloth and this like, this duality of like masculine and feminine has always been something that like I find like really, really intriguing. And it's something that like I always loved when I was fashion designing in high-end fashion. And as I started to kind of mature and started to focus more on the home and wanting to get out of the fashion sphere, creating products that had a lot of longevity and could be like, you know, we create one candle that lives for years and years and years. Like that was really attractive to us. I was concentrating more on my home. So really wanting to like kind of like take a lot of the things and the concepts that I loved and that drew me into fashion, creating worlds, creating new identities and like new ways to see the world. Like I didn't want to walk away from that, but I did want to walk into product categories that like more emotionally resonated with where I was in my own life. And we really built voicemails as a product that would be attractive to myself and David or other co-founder and my partner that would attract us as, you know, as if we were the consumers. And at that point in my personal life, I was really starting to kind of come through like a new kind of like self-awareness or like a rediscovery or like a redefining of who I was of like trying to kind of become like the most authentic and most true version of myself that maybe I had like kind of like skirted away from just because of like societal pressures or like this is for guys, just for girls, whatever. And I was starting to wear a lot of, you know, fine fragrance, you know, that was like incorporating floral notes into it and I was like, wow, you know, like I really feel like like my best and baddest self, like when I'm like spraying this like tulip or rose-centered fragrance on myself and I was working in fashion and it was so ironic because I'd like look across the desk to one of my female coworkers and they were wearing like Sontal from Lolabo or Tuscan Leather from Tom Ford. Like right before we go into like some big meeting where we're all going to present to like the CEO or the president and like, they're dousing themselves in masculine and I'm like dousing myself feminine and I could see that there was like a lot of power being harnessed by like crossing the binary of gender when it came to scent specifically. And I thought that that was so beautiful and cool in that like we were able to like kind of harness this power or have like a more full idea of like our identity and our potential, you know, and felt like re-fortified to like take on a big situation by like borrowing across this kind of like gender binary and scent. And so I also like love humor and like have a sense of humor and David does too. So when we made the first candles and we were like branding it, which we didn't even call it branding it, we were like, so what should we call it? You know, like it was so unconscious. I think now looking back, we have like a lot of, a lot more perspective on why we did it then, but I was like, hey, let's call boy smells and put it in a pink box, you know, like in everything that we do, all of the candles that we make combine traditionally masculine and feminine scent notes together. So obviously pink is like the color identifier for girls, but I love to wear pink and like boy smells like what does a boy smell like? Who's supposed to smell like a boy, you know? And doing these kind of like purposefully misdirecting kind of like gender identifiers and the branding like really speaks to kind of that breaking the mold when it comes to what sense are assigned to gender and just making things that are like really complex and like poking fun at just the whole kind of binary approach to, you know, personal products. It's so true. As you're saying this, I just started thinking about, so I have some Joe Malone products and it's like one of them is like honeysuckle, which is, I guess you put that on like the female category if we had to put it in a bucket. Then the other ones like wood sage and sea salt. And what I do is I combine them and I just love the scent because in some way, you know, what's interesting when I think about it deeply and really you're making me think about this in a different way is like the female smell is like almost a reminder of like the mother, the mom, the caring, right? And so it has nothing to do with identity but more it has to do with like a place and it just brings me back to that like safety. Security thing, whereas the other one just feels a little bit more aggressive, let's call it. Or like, oh, it's clear a man is here, right? And so the combination of those is a nice blend. So that's fascinating, man. That's really amazing. I practice a lot of specific yoga called Katona yoga and they talk a lot about like sometimes we have to be more sun and like go out and like take on the world and be more aggressive. And sometimes we have to go like more inner and lunar and like be more protective and like sensitive and I don't know, even when I was a little kid it was just like seeing people like Grace Jones or David Bowie, these people who were kind of like like really like harness like both sides of this kind of like had these both like masculine and feminine traits. I was like, oh my God, these are like modern day gods. You know what I mean? They're just like, they're like operating and kind of vibrating onto like a totally different level that like I found like so exciting and terrifying at the same time, you know? And I think that that energy I think is just like so awesome and hardcore and cool. It feels honest too. It's also like extremely honest, right? Totally. And that's just something I really admired and it's something that I think as a queer individual I wish that there were more products in my bathroom or in my house or like, you know the things I used every day that just like were kind of more honest about like identity and like not caring and like just like really choosing to define your own ideals around beauty. And like, I just, I think it's really important that people like look in the mirror and be like that's my ideal of beauty versus like being like, oh fuck, I don't look like this person. I don't look like this. I don't look like this person on Instagram or whatever. You know, like, like it just takes a lot of courage to like kind of like define, you know your ideals of scent and what beauty is and what identity is for yourself. And it's really, it's really awesome and it's really freeing too. I love it. I really do. And so what was your first step? So once you decide to launch and you have all like let's call it your first line, what was the thing? Was it getting into retail locations? Was it telling all your friends? Was it some sort of, I'm sure it was a hybrid of all of this. What was the first push? Well, we really meant it to be a side hustle. It was like going to be a hobby, you know what I mean? And then we had a lot of friends in the fashion industry and like I made them and I was working at a job at the time. I was a design director or a women head of dresses at Nasty Gal, which was my first kind of like fast fashion job. And I was like, you know, people at work were buying them for like Christmas presents, you know and they were like sending them back to their friends. You know, a lot of those people have like come from I come from high in fashion but a lot of those people like come from urban outfitters I had a lot of friends who were like in high end retail and like just all of a sudden we were just in like really cool stores like almost immediately. And it was just like, oh, this is crazy. I didn't realize that this would be kind of like a thing so fast. And so David quit his full-time job first and we were doing it at the house. And first it started in the sunroom and then it was like the sunroom and the dining room. Then it was like the sunroom, the dining room and the living room and like the last pictures before we pulled out of the house it was just like every square inch of wall space in the entire downstairs and the upstairs hallway and the guest bedroom were just like, you know wire shelving with inventory on it. And it was, you know, we had like desk run through the middle of the living room and desk run through the middle of the dining room. And then the sunroom was kind of like this like wax melter and fragrance hub. And we were just bursting at the seams. And now, and then we moved into this office that was 3000 square feet and we're like we'll never outgrow this, you know. And now we're like, how do we break this lease? Like this is way too small for us. You know, it's funny. A lot of founders always ask me the question like or like new entrepreneurs are like how do I know when I have to quit my job? And I'm like, you'll know. Like when you know, you know it's not something that you can hack. You know what I mean? It's like, it gets to the point instead of going to the mail, the GPS once a day you're going four or five, six, seven, eight now times a day. And then to your point, your entire one of your rooms in your apartment just becomes product. And then little by little by little you just realize that it's a baby that's growing and you have to take care of it and you have no other choice. Yeah. And honestly, I don't know how we would have done it. People are always like, what advice do you have? Or like, I always feel like so weird with getting advice because I'm like I only know the way we did it but like the way we did it was at like, you know, we're a couple, me and David and we had two incomes. One of us was a lot, you know could stay working while the other one quit. And then, you know, walking away from my full-time salary was like super terrifying. I mean, it was definitely like a leap of faith. And we had savings that, you know we burned through a little bit, but you know, we own 100% of the company. We've never taken on funding and we built all of that revenue underneath us and a lot of its luck and you know, we just kept pushing through. So I know what worked for us. I don't know what a recipe for success for everybody is. The way I phrase it is, I think when you're chasing something which reading the tea leaves and talking to you for such a short time here it's like you're really finding yourself through this company, right? It's an expression of self. And I think when people in general choose to express themselves or chase the expression of self and not money or not I'm just doing this because it's cool or fun. And the problem is it's not a hard thing. It's not like a thing that I can measure but it's this intangible that when you're deciding to just go in and chase who you are, the world has a way of just showing you like yes do more of that in whatever it is, right? And the other thing is it's so honest. And so the day to day is fun. Obviously all businesses have problems but because you're just expressing yourself it doesn't take, it's not work, right? It's not like... Absolutely. And I think you make a really good point because like there isn't this in goal that we're like chasing for the brand. We just take advantage of every opportunity that excites us and therefore we like put the passion into that opportunity to like make sure it's genuine and exciting for us. And it's not like, oh, well, if we do this we're gonna get to here and then that will allow us to do that. You know, like we're more like this is a cool opportunity. Everybody wants to do it so we're gonna figure out a way to do it. And the way I view success we did like some workshops where it was like what is, you know, I didn't even think about like what a success for me for me but like when I had to sit down and think about it it was like, oh, like success for me is that the brand comes to its full realization I can fully manifest the idea of the brand at every touch point. It's really not like a dollar amount at the end of the day but in order for the brand to fully manifest itself that means that it has to scale, you know what I mean? Cause it becomes bigger and bigger and bigger and just the passion for the brand is like what has and the vision for the brand is what scaled it more than it's really important to have like a budget and, you know, finances like that. But like, but that should be a tool to get you to fund like your dreams, you know to achieve your dreams, it shouldn't be just an A to B to try to make money, you know. Yeah, I totally agree. In my opinion, but there are other people who do really well, you know, not doing that too. You know, I've done a couple of startups one in fashion and then one, I do real estate development now I did data analytics and when it comes to real estate development, it's I meet a lot of finance people like just purely finance and they're very Excel driven and while they do make money, I'm just convinced like there's no soul, you know it's like what are you trying to put into the world? What are you actually trying to convey? Where are you in this? And there's a disconnect there because they're just chasing money and you know, for sure people make money doing that but I just think like it could be so much more fun like it could be so much more fun if they just inserted some of their personality into whatever it is they're building or bringing a really cool tenants that let's say they're a coffee lover it's like build like the most amazing coffee shop but they don't think like that because that deviates from an Excel sheet from the intangibles. But at the end of the day, I think when they if you do that and you do it well you're bringing something into the world that's super unique and people connect in a different way. Obviously a big highlight for you partnering up with Casey, it seems Casey Musgraves an amazing artist she's unbelievable. I mean, takes my breath away honestly when I hear she's such a crazy next level type of artist and icon how did you guys team up with her? What was that like? She just DM'd us on Instagram and was like, I love this Kush candle I burn it all the time on my tour bus and I was like, oh, that's so cool and I like, I've seen her open for Willie Nelson one New Year's Eve because I'm from Austin, Texas originally and Willie always does like a New Year's Eve show and I was like, oh, there's so great seeing there and then I'd seen her and Marfa at the Transpacus Music and Love Festival and I was like, oh, I saw you twice it was, you know, so great and I was like, stop by the studio if ever you're in LA love to show you what we're doing she was like, yeah, let's it'd be so cool to do a candle together and I was like, yeah and I was like, you know, she loves she's a cannabis fan and we had a Kush candle and I was like, we should do like cowgirl Kush and then she was like, what about golden hour? Like a candle and I was like, oh my God that's such a name and then she was like, oh, slow burn and we're like, oh my God that's like the perfect name for a candle and so we like DM for a while and then, you know, she won like, you know album of the year and kind of just like had this like crazy like trajectory so it kind of got kind of got hard to like figure out when to do it but then when they were kind of like coming down off the tour cycle when she was like kind of in her last maybe like month or six weeks of tour cycle I was like, let's get together let's do this so I went to New York and they invited me to one of her sold out shows at Radio City Music Hall which was so awesome cause like just seeing like that cross section of fans that's like, you know, really brings people together like, you know, it's like all different walks of life you know what I mean? And like, there's some things just so like true about, you know, her energy and like her songs that like resonates with like, you know, a very like wide variety of people and also seeing like all these like younger queer kids just like loving her and like finding so much like inspiration from her music and like feeling seen by it I was like, wow, this was actually like much more like impactful than I even like realized cause I was just kind of coming from it from like, do I like her music? Like, you know what I mean? Like, and when we talk about gender fullness it's really about just like fighting sexist ideas and Casey is a, she writes her own songs and from her own point of view that is not crazy conservative in a hyper male dominated somewhat conservative country music industry. You know, it's like an old rice club and she has just paved her own way in this like hyper masculine industry and that's like straight up gender fullness for us, you know, and I see such a cross section of values between her brand and our brand. And so we went and visited all the fragrance houses and like work through some fragrances and selected like two and then we like kept developing those and you know, then we limited it down to one I designed some packaging, she loved it. Then, you know, we collaborated on photo shoots and a launch event but like, you know, we were like making shared Pinterest boards, you know it was like, I wasn't going through a manager for every step of approval like we were texting and DMing and just like through the whole thing, you know and it's like, it wasn't like contrived or set up by an agent to like have X outcome. We just were like, this is going to be cool and it sold out in like 30 minutes and then like we put it on pre-sale and there was like a 20,000 person wait list and you know, it was just totally awesome. It was like, you know the first time that we kind of had a we'd had hit products but they were like no pun intended more like slow burn hit products, you know and but like it was kind of fun to do something that like was like immediately like had this like sell out thing, you know this like hype thing. So that was super cool to do and it's been a great partnership and I really think that she's like a really awesome human being. That's amazing. I love that story. As obviously COVID-19 is here a lot of people are spending more time in the home and so has this has this helped your brand? I imagine it has. People are a little bit more thoughtful around the sense and just like a sort of vibe in what is now their office, home, gym, everything. And so what has this time been like for you guys from a business perspective? Yeah, it's the comfort economy is I guess what they call it, you know right now, which sounds like seating assignment on Delta or something, you know home fragrance category has done like really, really, really well or there's been a lot of demand for it through the pandemic and it's really awesome to be able to create things that seem to bring people comfort during like a really kind of stressful time. It's a weird though to like feel successful during, you know a time when it's been really, really hard for people and as demand goes up manufacturing and supply chain has been like more difficult. So you're dealing with like you're walking a tightrope at all times. So we shut down wholesale all together for a while one because all the major stores were like canceling you know, their PO's left and right you know, which is with the total uncertainty but D to C was just like they was like March 15th or something like that. It was like people were starting to like figure it out. They were like, oh shit, like the tidal waves like the tsunamis coming like everybody better start like, you know running for high ground. And so when you looked at it over last year it was like D to C is up 500% to last year by the 15th and then by the 17th it was like our daily orders were up like 1,000% to last year. And so we hovered around well up 1200 to 1500% in D to C throughout the entire year and then it like tapered off with holiday a little bit just because like holiday is always good for us. So I think the whole year it's like it's over 1,000% increase from 2019 to 2020 in direct to consumer, which has been like totally insane and nuts. You know, our pink paper comes from Italy, Northern Italy. So and then like the boxes are like put together in China but everything's assembled and filled and all the fragrance comes from the US and wax comes from the US. I mean, it was like China shut down Northern Italy shut down and then like manufacturing in the US shut down. And during the pandemic we just started pouring candles at home again people who had worked at the candle factory that was shut down. Like we set them up in their garages with like at home like many factories, you know what I mean? And we were just like running U-Hauls and dropping off oils and glassware and wax all over LA and like a rotating shift of making candles at home. And we stayed open and stayed shipping for our D to C customers through the worst of the pandemic. And then we really, once the manufacturing reopened we were able to really kind of like put some more gas on it but 2020 was a, I mean, it was a wild ride for everyone. I actually feel like really blessed that we had to like focusing on the business like allowed us not to like focus on all the horrible things going on, you know? It was a nice kind of like just, I felt really glad that we didn't have to like just sit and watch the news all day every day. And like, you know, just not do anything or not have anything else to think about. You know, it's funny, everyone that we have out on the podcast, it's similar. It's like every startup March, April terror and then they've had their best year or best months ever. And it's just because they just, they leaned into the thing or the only thing I guess they could lean into, which is D to C or grocery or whatever their product was or even education in the market while their products are being made and they're having supply chain issues. And so their whole Instagram just became about educating the consumer on their product. And really cool to see it all work. You know, I think people listening and people who want to jump into our entrepreneurship always think like, oh, well, because of COVID at least I had a job or, you know, they had some security when in reality a tremendous amount of people are gonna or have lost their job. And there's a tremendous amount of entrepreneurs at least all the ones I've spoken to have done tremendously well. And all of them feel bad about it but it's just the reality. It's like when you have to survive, you find a way. Yeah, and but it's cool to like go on Instagram and be like, I'm stuck at home but at least I have this candle, you know what I mean? There's like a lot of like posts like that and you're like, oh, you know, this is nice. You know what I mean? That we get to do this, you know? And we did a collection for Pride and had a big charitable give back to the Trevor Project. So a certain percentage of proceeds all went back to Trevor Project and we were able, because we'd scaled so much and like grown so much by June and like with that Pride collection we were able to give back $47,000 to Trevor Project which is the US's leading suicide prevention hotline for LGBT youth and because of the pandemic a lot of LGBT youth are like having to shelter with perhaps family or not chosen family but people that aren't supportive to their conditions and like their call rate was up like it was like, you know, it was astronomical more needs and services there. So, you know, as we grow we're also able to like do more cool stuff too, you know that we believe in. And so if we hadn't been like grown we wouldn't have been able to do that. And we did, you know, some other charitable give backs this year that we were super excited about. So, you know, as we grow it allows us to scale and bring the brand to life in a more meaningful way for the customer but it also, you know, allows us to like partake in like some of these like really awesome initiatives. I love that, that's amazing. And I know you guys are launching some new products you guys are currently moving into underwear why the move and how do you view sort of some other things you might be working on for 2021, 2022. Well, I think I've always spoke about it earlier we call it like objects of intimacy at Boysmells, you know and it's really just about the things that you interact with on an intimate level that touch your skin or that you breathe in or that, you know and like our underwear is, we don't call it men's and women's we call it pouch front and flat front and then we have a bralette and you know, you get the fit that's right for you and it's less focused on gender and more about fit and we make it in these like craze like really cool really sophisticated like kind of skin tone adjacent I call them like neo natural colors that especially for the pouch front styles or what would traditionally be called men's like colors that like really aren't available on the market and like, you know, nude tones and stuff like that and it's been, it's been really fun to see kind of like a more sensitive take on underwear for that cohort and that's been embraced in a really cool way. Yeah, we're just excited to bring this kind of like genderful world to life across a lot of touchpoints and the candle, our core candles cost $34 and that's a pretty accessible I think that's a pretty accessible price point for like the quality and it's really like a designer level of fragrance and we bring it at a really great price. So when we launch these new products some of which are more traditionally a high price items we will be bringing them in a similar kind of like affordable approachable. We call the price point inclusive, you know so like everybody has the opportunity to like partake in the brand and we're just really excited to bring an inclusive price point and like a really high design way to the new products that we're gonna go into and I think that it also kind of goes back to this whole identity thing like identity is no longer a destination or like a static so I want to be able to create products that people can buy a bunch of and like light on this day if they're feeling this way or like they used to burn this during like one part of their life and now they're onto this next cent because they're evolving and changing and growing and stuff like that. So it's important for us that people be able to buy like multiple items within the brand you know what I mean? So that they can continue to, you know explore parts of themselves through the product embrace that and then re-express it out into the world and then kind of like go on to their next favorite scent and kind of like continue to build a more 360 view of who they are and what they enjoy and how those different aspects of their personality can kind of like not live in isolation for each other but that they kind of have a holistic view and so we're always like pushing the boundary when it comes to scent and what new combinations we can do while still saying like super sophisticated and elevated and I think like going back to like when I was exploring through personal fragrance things that were more feminine like they mixed florals and woods and all this stuff together but it was like so chic and so elevated and like expensive and I was like, holy shit like I'm seeing myself for the first time like this whole view of myself my masculine side, my feminine side but it's like bigger and better and like more chic than like those parts being pulled apart from each other. And so like I just want to continue building the product assortment so that like people just feel like a really bad ass bitch when they leave the house, you know? And like the fullest most realized version of themselves and like they can just go out there and just tackle the world. I love how thoughtful everything you're saying is it really, it's like refreshing to be honest it's so incredibly thoughtful and it's just an expression of self and I just, I love that, I love that it's not so much business it's just, you're just creating things that speak to you. When it comes to your product, what are your favorites? Do you have like your favorite child of the bunch? Do you have? Or maybe three, your favorite three? Sophie's Choice. It's usually like whatever's new, you know that we're working on. We came out last fall with a line called Hypernature which is a collection of four candles which is about to be five we're launching one tomorrow actually in addition to the Hypernature range. And it really mixes like the best of naturals natural ingredients, natural scents but with a few like really cool like man-made fragrance molecules that are like really widely used in the industry they're clean, safe, you know, non-toxic everything we do is sustainable and really cleanly formulated but like it mixes, it like accentuates the best of nature and like kind of like turns it up a couple notches, you know and there's a couple of scents in there all of them really that I burn pretty religiously I'm actually burning one called rhubarb smoke while I'm doing this chat with you and it is very sexy. It sounds like a cocktail, that's awesome. Yeah, it's incense, rhubarb, violet leaves, black tea birch, smoke papyrus and tanned leather. I'm gonna have to pick some up very shortly for myself. I appreciate you coming on the podcast. This has been an amazing conversation to be honest with you. I mean, I just love the honesty of your business and I'm glad I got the opportunity to speak with you and learn your approach and how you're going about this and I wish you nothing but the best of luck it sounds amazing. Please tell everyone where they can find you guys have a beautiful Instagram obviously the products are amazing. Just before I was texting some friends that I was speaking to you and they're like oh, I love boy smells, this is so cool obviously you guys are well-known at least within my friend group but tell everyone where they can find you and support you guys. Yeah, www.boysmells.com you can find the entire product range we're also available at Nordstrom and a bunch of really awesome more fashion boutiques around the USA come and check us out and it was my privilege being able to talk to you and I will literally talk to anyone about boy smells at any time. So thank you for letting me go on and on about it I really appreciate it. You bet. The start of the storefront team consists of Diego Torres Palma, Natalia Cappellini, Megan Conrad, Owen Cappellini, Lexie Jamison and me, Nick Conrad. Our music is composed by DoubleTouch and we've got more great episodes coming out every week so if you aren't already consider subscribing this is a very supportive and helpful community of entrepreneurs and we'd love for you to be a part of it. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube at startupstorefront because in case you didn't know we film all of our episodes and release them a day early on YouTube and you can always go back and listen to any of our other episodes available wherever you get your podcasts and on our website, startupstorefront.com Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.