 So the live stream is now going, I dropped the link in the chat so you can keep an eye on that page too. Sometimes people ask questions there. So whenever you're ready to go, you're all set. Thanks, David. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Let's wait a few more minutes. Yeah, because usually there are a lot of people. There's always a minimum of time. I think it was after 5 minutes that we got to 15 people. This time, if you can follow the link from the chat... Yeah, it worked. Oh, well, finally. We finally got to 15 people. Okay. Hello, Stefano, welcome. Oh, thanks. Hi, Andrea. Hi. Hello. Hello, Francesco, good morning. Good evening. Good evening. Hi, Ben. Hello, Christian. Hi, Paolo, welcome. Hi, Vilma. 34, I'd say. Let's wait a few more minutes. Yeah, yeah. Let's wait a few more minutes. Hi, Stefano. Hi, Giuseppe, welcome. Hi, Mauro. Hi, Carlo. Hi, everyone. Exactly. Hi. Hi. I'd say it's 35. I'd say we can start because I'm talking about little things that are not interesting. And then we'll leave the room to our guest today who will definitely tell us a lot of interesting things that Francesco from Digital Asset. Welcome. This is the second meet-up that we're organizing as AgriLegio Italian Chapter this year. As some of you probably have already followed us last year, some of our activities from the end of last year, we started this initiative a little bit at the Italian level to share all the people who are interested in the world of hyperlegia, so they contribute to the curiosity and the ecosystem that is being created around hyperlegia and all the related topics such as the blockchain, DLT and other things within the community of hyperlegia and the Linux Foundation. I'd like to ask Francesco if you can go to the next slide. Today's agenda is our special guest, Francesco Andreoli. Andreoli or Andreoli? Andreoli, Andreoli. Andreoli from Digital Asset who will talk to us about DML. I'm quite curious. I'm really interested to hear a little bit about what Francesco will talk to us about today. Obviously, we're taking a shorter session even though we're virtual. Usually, having a shorter session when you're virtual is a little better. But we'll try to leave a space for those who want to tell their own experience. The goal of this session would be to share the experience of networking. I'd like to tell you that you can actively contact us, stop us, ask us questions. If you have any ideas, any questions, we're in a... The idea here is to share. Any questions is a right question. Any ideas... Any ideas are welcome in this... At least in this... In this meeting. I'd like to ask Francesco to go to the next slide. Just to... A little bit of advertising for the Italian Chapter book. As you probably know, you can follow us and find the link to the Italian Chapter book. This is the third Meetup that we're bringing forward as Italian Chapter, focused on D'Amel. We already did one with Giuseppe Giordano and Peter. I don't want to repeat the name. It's for Leger Cactus. It's the first one in which we talked about the idea of launching this Italian Chapter for Leger. The next appointments will be, exceptionally, at lunchtime, because Alex is in Singapore. He's just remembering what Eugenio does. Then we'll have a session where, like the BMI, we'll talk about what we're doing on Fabric, about some experiences that we can tell you, a little more concrete. Well, with this, I'll leave the word to Francesco. Francesco, the next slide is for you. It's absolutely present, like... Of course. Thank you very much, Carlo. Thank you very much for the invitation by you, Eugenio, and all of you for Leger, who make me really happy today. Not only do we have time on the 40 minutes, but also a little shorter. We have an abundant hour, so don't worry. Interesting, I already talked with Eugenio and you, Carlo, to understand what the audience wanted. I think I did a mix of content for business, technical, studio cases, and then, what is this programming language called? I was thinking about talking a little bit, understanding these market trends. Besides, I did the slides in English, but, obviously, we speak Italian. If you have any questions, please do them in the chat. There are also a couple of my colleagues online, if you haven't seen them, I was thinking about a little bit of context with the market trends. Introduce you to Demol and talk about a studio case that we talked about once, I think about a question in another Meetup on credit cards, how Demol could help this use case. Then we have a little demo of our colleague to show you some of Demol, but it's really simple, it lasts very little, but if anyone is interested, he'll see it. After a little introduction of Digital Assets and what are the use cases that we have today, I'll describe them in a moment, because you probably heard me talk about this. I'm Francesco, I work at Digital Assets as a developer marketing. I work in the Zurigo office, we travel a lot, now a little less, and I spend most of my day helping to bring new people to Demol, to help them learn how to make applications and to understand what our community needs to grow. If you don't know what is Demol, it's because it's an open source, it's a programming language and it's functional, designed to write the classic smart contract at a higher level for a variety of distributed ledgers, or SQL, it depends on the deployment you want to do. It's a very succinct language and it focuses on business logic and not on infrastructure, so I'll explain it in the next slides. Let's give a little context how we arrived at Demol and how we see the situation today. I know the slides are full of content, but I think it's important to understand a high level, because it's a complex discourse. Today we can have different examples of business processes and I think you, in the audience, know that they are full of interconnected activities. For example, we have the example on the left which is a classic contractual agreement where every contract is described by a series of rights and obligations, where in Demol the proposed accept is called and according to the classic multi-party workflow where we have business processes where you can verify between multiple parties. Excuse me if I say a few words in English, but sometimes I don't speak Italian. You don't speak Italian. You don't speak Italian. Exactly. If you have any questions, I recommend it. As a third example, we have a new business where you have a very selective information through a multi-party process flow. This is a first context. Then we know that the legacy systems were built in various silos and this creates an infrastructure level. For example, we have the classic infrastructure on-premise where we have almost 3 trillion a day are still exchanged through the mainframe and if you think about it, this is quite absurd in 2021. We have, for example, a second example, the messaging communication based on messages where reconciliation between these different silos has different errors and then, specifically, as a third example, we have a platform that integrates to different levels and the data and the code are often duplicated and updated in more positions so you can export to multiple risks. Now, what are the main problems in these agenda projects today? As you can see here, on the left are a few topics and I will mention them quickly. We clearly have the assets of the workflow flows where each flow has its data models. We have multi-complex workflow flows so, as you can imagine, a trading, a margin trading, a regulation involving multi-parties. Clearly, there are heterogeneous technologies so each entity uses more technologies that are different from each other. As in the case we saw earlier, in the middle we have a completely bilateral messaging so it limits the visibility and obstacles to the speed of solving problems and then, interestingly, the manual reconciliation requires each part of this work a costful work and requires time to slow down critical processes and create risks. So the question is how smart contracts of Smart Contract can improve these business projects. So, at the level where we have discussed before that there is no common data model, you can make a complex work with multi-parties for design and not for requirements. When it comes to technology and heterogeneous, we need a system that is able to have interoperability as a bilateral messaging we have coerent automatizations and then, as the last one, at the level of reconciliation we have a golden source of truth because it is a reference point and this is the secret sauce of Demol, which refers to a single golden source of truth. Now I'm talking a little better. So, now the question is how we arrived at Demol. I just want to quickly explain what the story was. Because what we think of digital asset is that in general the infrastructure is much more shared and the applications are always more collaborative instead of working on single silos. So, as an example on the left we have an infrastructure on-premise and it goes to utility services such as on-premise and AWS, for example. And on the right, for example, we have the classic Google Word with Google Docs simply to say that it passes from local files to more than online collaboration. And what we think is the future of multi-parties sharing applications. So, what you can see now is that these companies, or in general big companies cannot offer temporary applications to their customers because they are based on a system that requires a lot of time and a lot of reconciliation to work. So, in the end we have always lived in a world of ledger distributors but that this world is governed by messages and reconciliation while any system constituted in this way will be, if you think about it, always slower. It is here that we have the most important information. It is here that DEML resolves these problems that I mentioned because DEML connects to any ledger and has an interoperable network. And it is like talking, for example, from the point of view of some similarities, like talking about a document, a Google Doc, so that it can always keep the share of state. So, now what he just said, this network we call it a virtual share ledger which is simply when you talk about virtual because it is always physically in many locations, the shared because it has more parts with very segmented views and then a ledger, clearly, I imagine you know what it is, but it is a verifiable registration of two things that we need to bring home tonight. One, DEML allows multi-part work flows providing these different parts, a shared virtual ledger and two, DEML codifies these ledger rules and authorizes the parts that can be modified or not. So, also the entire authorization system is a very important thing. Now, do you have any questions so far? I hope I have not already I'm already at 6.50. Anyway, do you have any questions? For example, I have a question and it is certainly something that someone is asking. So, DEML is a programming language that allows interoperability and then you have said that you can integrate with different infrastructures for the persistence of the data, for sustainability etc. So, here you can integrate both with ledger, for example, and with database. Exactly. This is very interesting. Now, my partner described a slide of the document. My partner in the tooling that DEML offers is not just a programming language, but they are the ones that we call all DEML drivers. My partner with DEML that builds your business logic, you can integrate it with DEML. You can then build your logic initially on a centralized database and make a deployment on Postgres on SQL, for example. And then, if you want to go completely decentralized, you can say OK, I make a deployment on DEML for Hyperledger Fabric, for example. And that's all open source. It's great. Now, with this example, I will also talk about DEML which is the real value proposition at the level of being higher in the infrastructure, not just... So, just to give you a little context, I had prepared it because we had a discussion with Eugenio. So, I thought that the classical use case for banks and credit cards could be interesting to see. Even if it's very simple and complicated. So, in the credit card workflow there are always problems, there are various silos, a little what I explained earlier. Work flows are not shared and then, above all, all of this is translated into different and expensive manual work, especially for the classic business analyst job to take data, clean them, regroup them. This is what I thought when it was very simplified what is a pipeline for a process of a credit card, to the classic new account systems, to payments, credit authorization, collections, payments and so on. It's interesting to know that each process of this link has a different database and for what is interesting to see what happens later. For example, a data science, a data analyst, what he does and it turns out that from 45%, 60% of the data management effort is done in the first two phases in aggregation and cleaning, in cleaning. So, what we condemn can be resolved is to build this multi-part work flow based on a smart contract. So, you have a classic golden source of through, you have a smart contract storing that builds the business logic and at the same time you can not force it but you can control the accesses because everything is defined by this programming language and at the same time it's always private. So, at the value proposition what I wanted to give you about the concept is not a programming language that is based on all the infrastructure levels but, as I said before it focuses on business logic. So, you build your business logic at the beginning and then you can connect with different APIs and have access to this demo driver where you can go from Hyperlegia Fabric to Tierma eCorda. So, it's interesting because not only competitors but many companies today are trying to go into commodity infrastructure while in Damels are trying to position themselves in a more high level in deployment. So, you build your business logic and then you can do deployment wherever you want and then you can build it wherever you want. So, this slide to explain the fact that this is a distributed ledger deployment so, your green represents the business logic built on Damels which interface against API runtime with a distributed ledger so, it's a classic Hyperlegger Fabric and a SOTUS and we'll see after the use case. While that concerns a, let's say if you don't care anymore after a couple of years a couple of days or you want to do a deployment on a database you still have Damels driver that allows you to do an integration on a PostgreSQL, for example and that's a bit interesting because we see customers always starting to build their business logic centralized and then in the future decentralize it. It's interesting, I don't want to talk too much about the value proposition but we have seen the classic efficiency an interesting thing the portability to do deployments on different platforms that can vary from a Fabric, a SQL centralized and Azure to a Core and then the interesting thing which is completely public for a couple of months we launched this Canton protocol that can connect automatically the Damels applications together so it's important not only the silos that don't speak between them but then actually have an application that is built on a Damel 4 corda and a Damel 4 Postgres and the two things can speak between them automatically this is very interesting because what we see in the industry is that each company tries to build its own island but what I think is not important is that in the future there are protocols that try to make them speak these islands between them I created this because we also talked about a case of study of interest rate swaps interest swaps and I wanted to show for example how the difference is to build an example between Kotlin versus a Damel basically if you implement the application on a platform versus Damel it's much more complex it takes more time and above all as you can see here on 800 lines of code with Kotlin 90% is system code while on 102 this is a bit the simplicity on 100 lines of code you can fully focus on that the value proposition I feel there are no questions in chat do you have any questions? I like to see it this is the last thing I told the efficiency of using the language as Damel now, theoretically now I can answer you in the next chapter we didn't do an interest rate swap which is a bit longer to explain but this demo which is very funny I explain it to you but it's simple and you understand how Damel is basically the application now I'll show it live but it's an example of giving, receiving bribes interesting you can offer you can receive and you have different parties the interesting thing is open source I don't know if you can see my screen I prepared this full disclosure because this is our co-worker it's very easy to explain what I wanted to show for example I'm logged as Francesco I wanted to give a beer to Carlo what I do I send a... I've built two templates now I'll show you the code because it's the classic the template to offer and the template to take and now I offer I made a mistake, Carlo sorry Carlo as soon as it happens I open a contract where I give the beer to Carlo and I can obviously cancel it so now I log as Carlo from the other point of view and what I see is now I see that Francesco offered me a beer I can accept it and refuse it and I'm still in the template now I accept I go to the beer owned section and it confirms that I that Carlo received a Francesco beer it's interesting because what happened is that I accepted a propose-accept pattern now I go back to the presentation and I'll show you a moment now with us, with 40 42 lines of code we have defined defined these... a small multi-party agreement now we have the two templates the template here is for the contract which is similar to an object and distance then we have the two signatories and the observatories the observatories say who else can see the contract and then on the other side to not go too deep we have once the destination chooses to accept accept beer that is defined here the contract is created and then we have other choices to refuse this is the interesting thing because it has a functional language and you don't have to do it in 200 lines because you have 40 lines you can build something that you could do with a much longer one this is the interesting thing because the same concept is made for different use cases it can be for credit cards it can be for post-settlement of the ESX now I will talk to you about which customers with which use cases but for now you have a few questions Look, Francesco, I don't have any but I'm telling you for the end also because I know that maybe ok, so I wanted to anyway, I think that this slide is essential to understand the practical approach that Demons is trying to have on the market in terms of application of technology in trying to make the transfer in terms of learning of technology in a much more simplified way and simple for the people who come to this technology this is one of the links that Demol can have with Hyperlegger in terms of project and Linux Yes, exactly completely agree and then we see it with different use cases any case of study with multi-party flow can be very well modeled with Demol at the business logic and then you can decide now I'm going to talk about the tools that can be offered in terms of programming basically, Demol I don't want to be a salesman from this point of view but it was founded in 2014 there are different offices 3 different rounds on the 150 million raised and it's interesting to say that most of our colleagues are more engineering and then, as you know now I'm going to talk about different clients but it's interesting to know that they are very in the whole world and study cases are specific to define now many are finance but now we are going in supply chain and different use cases So, at the level of tooling where I described Demol in Demol Connect and Demol Connect contains all the necessary to connect to the network in execution and can create can test, can distribute, integrate Demol with other infrastructures then we have the drivers that are not only made by Diem but also by different partners that offer this wide range of infrastructures quite interesting the one that is made the deployment on a final platform, so the classic Demol for Corda, integration with Corda Demol for SQL, integration with Postgres and then the interesting thing which is also a little the value proposition of Demol is that the goal is to create an MVP to do prototypes quickly also a natural thing you need to do a fast deployment and that's why we have Project Debble where it belongs to a Project Debble is simply a cloud environment that is completely managed and scalable for Demol applications So, in 2-3 hours you can make an application make deployments to Debble a little bit like a sandbox and the interesting thing which is completely interoperable with the Canton Protocol So, you can talk actually with a Demol for Corda for an application with Demol for Corda in the event of having a Demol for Postgres that's also a little interesting you can really play behind us So, now for use case big, apart from the credit cards you can't talk about all use case, anyway we have a few clients you probably have heard about the Australian Stock Exchange where you try to replace the CES which is the compensation system and action regulation which is 20 years old and then a couple of other BNP and Brotary Brotary is interesting because what they are doing they are trying to use Demol and then a very recent thing the BSN I don't know if you have seen what is happening but BSN, which is the Chinese blockchain service network decided to build the next distributed infrastructure on Demol and it's a pretty interesting thing then after another use case they were the deployments and for example how much material they are doing exactly this they are trying to face the problem of the counterfeit goods and then they use Demol on Sotus and the interesting thing that you can decide to give autonomy because you can deploy for a whole platform of traceability based on thinking about technology and then after that if you want to talk about a specific use case more than what you ask one thing that you have seen in a couple of news a few months ago a bond issuance was made of 400 million on bonds from Long-Con Stock Exchange and the Settlement System is based on Demol and this is pretty interesting because it was worked with for several years I think also since two and a half years on a project called Synapse and in the end what they do is they help in post negotiations for Stock Connect Stock Connect is also a part and it's also very important we have SGX as you probably saw a week ago a press release Francesca, I'll ask you for a second to ask you a question that comes from the chat if there are demo applications in IoT IoT I can't speak but Civic I think you can take it what they do is supply chain in agriculture quite interesting and they developed certificates of agriculture and these are all on Demol this is one thing and then after Demex that I can send you the press release what they also did a couple of articles also on Medium and what they also do are certified by Climate it's not really IoT but it's I would say Civic Ledger and then it depends because you understand at the level of finance these are a lot of finance how much material does more tracking supply chain it also depends on IoT the others are Fintech Fintech but the question is really interesting I think I can send you a couple of links with press release a little more specialized that I have not defined here so now I practically I concluded the only thing I wanted to talk about is the community is growing we have the forum I send you after the slides we have the forum where you can ask questions talk about news watch tutorials how to write on Damol we also have Introduce Yourself where you can introduce yourself an interesting thing that we introduced 8 months ago that we have in these tutorials where you can directly learn about Demol so you can directly do lessons instead of doing the classic deployment of the SDK then sculptor browser start to have 20 minutes to learn and build a small demo application very similar to what I showed you and then do the deployment on project devil interesting and then I leave the last surprise we have a certification system to be Damol certified and I thought of doing 10 vouchers to the first person who takes them clearly you were not yet sleeping because with Damol italy takes a voucher of the Damol associate exam and the first 10 so yes first come first serve the first 10 years they are free for 200 euros of exam so I give you the time to do it if you want exactly anyway I think we send after the slides Carlo and I just finished here the presentation we are live on youtube so it's true, right all the people who are listening they have this possibility exactly the last few videos after 3-4 minutes let's see this time let's see the people who want to be Damol associate basically when you click here you have different links and you see the certification on Damol and this is also the path and the first is the Damol associate foundation level and it's always nice for it in the cv so nothing we did an introduction we saw a little use case we also talked about something a little more specific like the OBEAR demo and then we saw a little digital asset offer at the level of tooling of what is of which publicly customers are where Damol is used absolutely so Francesco I wanted to ask a couple of questions I wanted to make a general consideration from my part I consider Damol an instrument that allows great flexibility of digitization of the business processes flexibility in centralized contexts because it allows the portability of ecosystem or network and then provides possibility to the companies to be able to use different operating systems the construction of the database in centralized contexts instead can be in some way visualized as an integrated instrument that allows to have a certain type of governance at the level of transformation and transformation of the data so for this which is my very personal opinion I had some questions from the start in business what are the cost-effective the economic implications for a company that or choose Damol choose to introduce me to Damol within its own system and the second in terms of regulators I know that Kanton is in some way compliance with European regulations and if you could give us some information obviously I am flying regarding these terms and the third instead it is a topic that we touched on in terms of training what are the times if you know something for which an internal company can how long it takes to take the effective Damol this also to give times times maybe the company that can take Damol and finally this is a question that I will ask you but also to the others if you can give us some indication about cases or past that have been used in Italy and second what can be the opinion of the present on future cases in Italy in analysis in terms of market in terms of the company in terms of also integration between companies I see the Italian economy as an economy that lives a lot in associative contexts and Damol I think it could be a very interesting tool in this topic so for the Italian cases there are a little less but in my opinion there are a lot of cases of study the question is always at the level to regulate what can be done because in my opinion it is no longer a question of technology but more at the level of because you can have a credit card workflow from different banks but the question is also at the level interesting that anyway canton answers a little the other question canton is completely gdpr compliant so you have information that are not published but you have accessibility to specific people that is also the value composition of canton but the question is also how do you solve the level of governance I think that apart from the open api of banks but I think that more than that that's all unfortunately I don't know for example here in Switzerland we did a couple of applications on DLT, unfortunately not with demo but for counter tracing for the pandemic and that was very interesting because you see exactly transactions clearly encrypted and then they were effectively eliminated after a while so it would also be certain I don't know how the app worked in Italy but I imagine it was completely centralized the company managed centrally but the app is thought in such a way that it does not share personal information so it only puts in communication the central part let's say it puts the communication not in the way this thing is also decentralized in that case how do you do it? yes, it's interesting obviously we use a very specific case but counter tracing is interesting but now the question now let's remember the question about training it's very interesting because we still had a team that from scratch a couple of functional languages should be there but still very simple compared to an object oriented that in a couple of weeks they start building similar to what you saw in Obere and then the interesting thing with these we now have a lot of resources we have Crash Course we have especially the demo.com where you can build your app in your browser we have almost 25 Learn where for those of you after you have made 25 you can start building prototypes for example in Discast we launched it in February now we have 500 people and every day there are questions and the interesting thing is that we have the whole team of engineers from Zurich, New York, Hong Kong that after 3-4 minutes they already answer the questions and also the support is very fast and the interesting thing is that I think it's a team maybe of 20 people with a full stack background or even with some a small background functional language they can understand how the demo works and it's very fast but from the other point of view we also have people and from the level that come from a business oriented function that they can learn the demo in a couple of weeks because it's very simple I'll show you at the end it's always the same thing any contract that you want to define whether it's a post-settlement with 100 choices triggers at the end it's always the same thing you define templates where you have to accept and receive and then the interesting thing is that every use case that's done by multi-parties can be defined like this maybe the demo doesn't work for any use case but for most of the contract I think one of the best things that can happen because at the end everyone concentrates to define the behavior of these contracts so you define your business logic and then what you do on a demo at the beginning show it to your team and then if you want to be centralized go to a demo on Postgres and then decentralized go to a demo on Fabric for example we showed you an example where you do the deployment on Fabric then you do it with Sotus and then you do it with SQL it's all open source and clearly for everyone I advise you to go to demo.com for documentation and when you download the demo connect and here you see how to do the deployment on different ledger you have the classical getting started guide then you see exactly how to learn a new language this is the classic cheat sheet where you have in a single place everyone has commands because you have the concept and with the choice you can already build your application and just to say respect a little bit more competition is a thousand times easier because you have to define your contracts, define the triggers with these choices and then the only thing that is still working is the content because we have library that helps to pre-build the UI but we are not focusing on that the purpose is to have a backend that is consistent and fast that's very clear I have a question for you you as a digital asset clearly go ahead Damel what is your business model on this yes exactly interesting because I didn't mention it you have demo connect we have the classical community edition where everything is open source and then you have specific drivers there is also the enterprise edition enterprise edition when you need a bigger setup a different SLA and classically customized drivers because for example there are customized things that we do on measure but clearly the 90% of the things you can do with demo are all open source and it's interesting I think on the site we also have a couple of these things, for example Fabrics, Autos are open source partners Debble you can try because the deployment always works as a startup clearly if you want to make a bigger deployment and have all your infrastructure on cloud you have to go and make a classic upgrade on enterprise edition but finally the revenue model is enterprise edition and then clearly we have all the network that offer the same solution without us selling it directly like VMware VMware offers the solution to their blockchain and their infrastructure that is based on demo and then you have to talk with them for us we are the background infrastructure obviously if you have questions we have the digital asset site which is located for developer and technical decision maker while for the digital asset you can see for example demo for enterprise and you can simply ask or write to me or in the forum really if I write to you if I don't write to you after 5 minutes you can take it personally but here you have a to be useful for those who are following now to have ideas of what is behind because it is important then obviously we have Marketplace on demo we have an example for example where they are defined it is quite interesting because you have applications you have a lot of interesting tutorials and then we also have Marketplace where there are partners that offer their solution if you see for example from Auto Insurance to Post Latiment you also have the solution of Chainstack which has also built the integration Chainstack is almost two weeks and then you have the prequented GFT prequented every solution you see it here in Marketplace many are open source but many are also proprietary and then the thing that I did not say that in the forum of these 450 people who always write questions anyway they do many MVP we still have Akaton where we did for example the recent Odyssey unfortunately it was virtual there many made MVP with demo and made deployment on their infrastructure that they wanted but this is a bit the story of the business model I don't know if there are other questions clearly interesting now the classic Akaton protocol as it will come but I think that until now I have decided that it is part of the demo connect product so it is part of the demo open source and yes yes there is a lot there is a lot but there are also a lot of resources because among our YouTube Learn which you can learn online and the certificates what we see now are the last two months we have made there are many certificates that we are doing and people are really interested to go ahead clearly the certificate of the demo the associate is something you can do in a I don't know, let's say a half day and while the others are a little more complex but clearly there are also different teams like the one that is called Eugenio different teams that 20 people direct that they have to build something on demo a couple of months are all proficient clearly thanks also to answer questions on the forum these things here I have used the certificate I am one of the 10 confesses ah, you have used it ok let's see who will be the other 9 first first I wanted to go back a moment on my reflection on the economic level a country like Italy that lives on structures as consortium associations of this type that is, business structures tendentially associative where small and good companies tendentially associating themselves trying to compete on international markets this can really be a tool in a better long term both for national projects to give a certain flexibility to projects and national digital assets that can be put on the market but both for different structures different networks to try to communicate between them through different languages I think we saw something from different Italian banks that opened their APIs and did some projects on their servers but that we talked about between them I saw something like that I remember that there was a big project that was done with R3 corda that takes 90 years that is the most interesting thing but to tell you that we are not let's say we can say that to work with Open API we have to work for sure but every bank in Italy has Open API from last year this one we were talking about small and medium enterprises or I thought about digital money assets in a future digital money asset to use within of a corporate that provides infrastructure of the market a tool of this type can allow to transfer assets obviously in a regulatory context and business that is able to receive it in the current context but with a certain flexibility that is essential for the development that is the case of CBDC I have to say that it is a very interesting thing that we have also studied and we have also built a lot of MVP on CBDC and if you are interested or if you are interested there are three blog posts made by different people but they all talk about how to model the CBDC for Condemnol and the deployment this is interesting because for the first time after a while we could talk publicly about Kanton where you also see the classic infrastructure of a CBDC with Condemnol and the deployment on different domains so this is interesting because in my opinion in the next 5 years there will be real cases not only of prototyping on CBDC which I imagine this is one and then there is also this which is very interesting where is exactly talked about a CBDC the theme of the standard is surely quite hot some important actors will declare themselves to do something general so surely there will be the need to do it in a decentralized way exactly but what I always think you can have banks that have data centralized on a deployment as a Postgres because I see a lot the entire enterprise world is always very hot let's do the centralized things let's focus on a business logic because the important thing is to write the first 20,000 lines of code for a business logic and then the interesting thing is not to have the lock-in that's a bit of the problem if you see in other infrastructures build all your product but if you have the lock-in look what you want to do is not to have this look and say ok I want to become centralized because I have rules that make me feel distributed and you do this so theoretically a CBDC with Postgres deployment can be functional can work clearly after the data are published and this is another resource I see Giuseppe Giuseppe has greeted us and nothing there has been a nice presentation actually it would have given nothing maybe to see more of the cases of use of SPL yes there are many these here are a bit the public and it is clear it is interesting to see a moment because the cases of study are very similar you always have a classic multi-party flow you have a contract for different parties that you have to put together and then you see at the end the industries are different the verticals are different but what is happening it is very similar at the end because I think almost any use case can be described as multi-party workflow I think from the contract of the apartment to a post-settlement system for example I agree we will see we will feel in the next months especially between Francesco maybe we will find a way to go deeper in use case with some topics that may have the Green Economy or everything that concerns the sustainable development both from certification to financial products it would be interesting that this topic is an important part of how the economy will develop in Italy my ideas anyway, thank you very much now I leave the floor to Carlo for the closing anyway, at the end of the day if there are other people who would like to ask questions to Francesco of course otherwise I think we have bombarded you enough don't worry I really like to talk also because it is not really colloquial I like it as an atmosphere very good obviously Francesco has invited all the others to participate next week as we said this time we will be in the first afternoon at 12.30 lunch time we will have Jaystack who will tell us what they are doing if you want to participate you are welcome if you want to see this presentation he has already found it on youtube live so it will already be recorded you will find it already live well, that's all with this we thank you we wish you good dinner see you next time thank you Francesco thanks again see you next time bye Carlo