 You see what are the consequences of the system? The system generated a certain amount of inequality. You say it's unfair because of the consequences. Robert Nozick had a different approach to the concept of justice. And they were saying, no, it's about your moral judgment about the process that led to those outcomes. In his famous example, Will Chamberlain is a millionaire because people like to watch him play basketball. That's how he made his money. But nobody thinks it's unfair for him to be rich because he got rich in a way that people find legitimate and just. So I think that instead of measuring too much gene coefficients, which is fine for economists, and we do it all the time, we have to look a little bit more about how people think that the outcomes got achieved. And I would say that people think, so there's a very interesting study done by my great friend and great Latin American economist, Rafael Vitella at Harvard Business School. So he tries to understand how do people's beliefs about the nature of the world affect what governments end up doing. And he finds that in the US and in Europe, if you ask people, do you think the poor are unlucky? Or do you think the poor are lazy? Well, in France, they tend to think of the poor as unlucky. In the US, they tend to think of the poor as lazy. And then if you ask at the individual level, do you want more taxation, do you want more redistribution? Well, obviously, those who think that the poor are lazy don't want more taxation and don't want more redistribution. The people who think that the poor are unlucky, they do. So there are deep beliefs about the nature of what causes these outcomes in society. In Latin America, the question is not so much what you think about the poor. The question is what do you think about the rich? See, the question is, are the rich rich because they are Bill Gates or somebody invented something, did something? Or are they rich because the system is closed, the system is rigged, the system is abused because of the government procurement. So in Latin America, people in general tend to think that the system is rigged, that the system is unfair, that the rich don't deserve what they have. But even when you look at the individual level, so the people who think more that the system is unfair, they want more government restriction, more government regulation and so on. That obviously is going to make it that much more important for the powerful to dominate the state because so that you don't apply the laws. This is a sentence that gets attributed to Porfirio Díaz, which in my translation to Venezuelan is and then back to English is, for my friends, anything, for my enemies, the law. So the law is something that gets created in some sense to make a very, very nasty business environment that only the insiders can support. So the system becomes very close. So most Latin Americans believe that if you really, really play football well, you can make it into the national team or into the professional leagues. If you ask Latin Americans, do you think if you're entrepreneurial, study, effort, et cetera, would that get you to the top? They don't think that. So they don't think that business is as open. They don't think that probably government is as open. So I think that the problems of trust emerge from the perception of unfairness, which may not be just a perception. And the perception is more to do with process than with outcomes. And so I think we need to have a deeper discussion on these topics. I think that businesses have to earn their legitimacy, not through corporate social responsibility, so that you sin from Monday to Friday, and then on weekends you try to pay alms or something that will forgive you of your sins. It has to be that your day job is perceived as a morally sound and important contribution to society. And it has to be that the rules with which you operate are perceived as fair so that the outcomes are perceived as fair. Let me stop there. Thank you, Ricardo. We'll come back to you, of course. I thought you were going to quote the phrase of a portfolio Diaz that says that the Mexicans use. You know that we are so far from God, so close to the United States. I thought you were going to say that, but I know you use another one. But you know what you're talking about here is what about the elites? You know what do we do with elites? And I think it's interesting. We have called that the culture of privilege. That is those that have those privileges because they are the elite. And this naturalizes in a certain way inequalities. So we have been studying that quite a bit. I would like very much, Juan David Aristizabo, that you are from Colombia. You are a young leader. And Ricardo and I belong to different generations. Of course, he's younger than me. No question about it. To senior young leaders. Exactly. We are senior young leaders and shoppers, you know. And you know. So we are not startups. We are end-ups. But the thing is that we would like to very much know what the young people think, you know. Does the young people trust the governments, the institutions, the public, the idea of public things, the public goods? Are you more in the individualism? Are you, you know, how do you want to empower yourselves as young leaders? And how do you think we should, do we trust you? Do you feel the young people, do you think, do you are trusted by the rest of the society? Or you have some stigmatic concepts behind you? And so would like very much your views, Juan David. I think you are a very young Colombian leader. And of course you are the co-chair of this year's Davos Forum. So, and you come from the global shapers community. So please, Juan David, give us your views. Thank you. I think we live in a warrior mindset society. And what I mean to live in a warrior mindset society, I mean like all days when you young people, they have to go to their work, they have to take public transportation, they have to spend like one hour and a half commuting to their work. And what happened in the public transportation? They get, people love them, people, it's so uncomfortable for them. So sometimes, and they go to their job, and many of them are not being paid very well. And then when you see their curriculums, they study a lot. They went to a private university or a public university, but that diploma doesn't work because companies are asking like, hey, you don't have experience, but if you have like a lot of education, you are going to say, oh, you are so well-prepared, like a cheese. So I think the problem is like, we are living in this warrior mindset that we are trying to defend ourselves like all the time, trying to live in communities that also have this public transportation system, but also security. How can people trust a government when our lives are not protected? When you go at night and people can kill you, or when your kids in the high schools can be involved in drugs. The micro-trafficking in all Latin America is happening. So we have to, of course, when we talk about trust, I think it's very important, but I think like the specific and the daily activities of people is they don't believe in the system because the system in so many cities is not working. And you put there populists, I think say from the left or from the right, and they are talking directly to the people who are feeling disengaged of the system. So of course, the reality is there, and then is the narrative of the lack of trust. So some politicians get elected with a conservative agenda, and then when they report the government, they go to the center, and I think that is the best way to do it. But what happens then? Like a lot of people don't trust politicians because they change their mind after the election. And I think sometimes it's better that they change their minds. But what I think is what is happening is we have to change also the way that our politicians are talking to people and are doing their job. Because how can we trust politicians when they don't tell the truth, when they are not working to change the system? And the third, I will say, that we have to change the ways that we are doing businesses in Latin America. And why is that? Because in our countries, we have long family businesses. Many of them are doing great job. But a lot of them, they don't want to change. They are having public contracts. They just want to be involved in this kind of business. They don't want to innovate. So when innovators appear, they say, okay, we don't like you. So we talk about racism. We talk about elitism. But I think it's, how can you call Ricardo like to be, that we don't want to have innovators sometimes in our economy because they are going to change it. They will increase the pie and they are going to change the way that we do business. So if we want to engage more people in the system and we want to have them trust in the system, we also have to train people with entrepreneurship skills. And we are lacking that in the public schools. In one major in Columbia, in Bogota, what he did in public schools, he told kids that to be an entrepreneur was bad because he was from the left. So when you go to those schools that talking about entrepreneurship and creating business, they say, no, you are going to be a chupa sangre. You are going to be a bad person. So I think we have to train those skills so people, young people, start to trust also the economic system. Well, that's very thoughtful of you. I will come back to you guys with proposals because we are doing a good diagnosis, but now we need to see what we're going to do. Kishor Mabubani, people might think in this room, what are you doing here? Talking about Latin America. I don't look like an American. See what I mean? Yes, coming from Singapore. You know, I think a fresh look from outside is very good. And of course, Professor, you are a very senior advisor in the National University of Singapore. So tell us, tell us about what do you think about this mistrust and lack of trust in Latin America but maybe extensive to other parts of the world? Yeah, well, I mean, as you all know, Singapore has been an exceptionally successful state, but when I was born in Singapore in 1948, Singapore was very poor, in fact desperately poor, and I came from a very poor family in a poor Singapore and at the age of six, I had to be put on a special feeding program because when the principal weighed me on the first day of school, I was technically undernourished. Now you can see I'm overnourished. You did very well. But I guess in my lifetime, I have traveled, I would say, from the very bottom to now I would say, frankly, to the very top in one life. But my story is not just a story about Kishore Mabubani. It's a story of hundreds of millions. And what, the reason why the, let's, I'm going to talk about Southeast Asia, okay? If there was one region that was the most hopeless region in the world in the 1960s, you know, Southeast Asia, the biggest wars, Vietnam War, Cambodian War, all the wars have been fought in Southeast Asia, more wars in Southeast Asia than the Middle East. The per capita income of all the Southeast Asian states was very low, lower than African states. And the region just had no sense of hope at all, right? In the 60s, you fast forward 50 years, and I produced a book in 2017 on the 50th anniversary of ASEAN, calling it the ASEAN Miracle. And it's a miracle because that hopeless region has become the seventh largest economy in the world and very soon will become the fourth largest economy in the world from absolute bottom. So how do you take a hopeless region and make it into one of the most successful regions on planet Earth? What's behind that? So let me add two concepts to your focus on trust. The first concept is hope. It's very important that the people, especially the people at the very bottom, the bottom 10%, the bottom 20% must feel that tomorrow will be better than today. If they believe that, then they are motivated. Then they'll say, okay, I will try. I will do my best because tomorrow will be better than today. And what is stunning is that this was done in societies with very imperfect governments. I mean, Indonesia had a tremendous dictator, Suatong, very corrupt, right? Thailand had military governments. Philippines had a dictator. Malaysia was also having all kinds of ethnic challenges. And yet, despite these imperfect societies, they grew and succeeded. Because one thing that the leaders did, which was right, was that they had inclusive growth. Why it happened actually is a mystery. Why? How is it dictators, military governments, generated economic growth? They didn't just benefit the top 1%, but actually benefited the bottom 50% in a spectacular way. That's why it's very important. Whatever you do in your societies, ask yourself the question, very simple question. Do the people at the bottom feel any sense of hope for tomorrow? And the second concept I'm gonna add, which I think is an equally important concept, which I think actually explains why Asia has done so well and will continue to do amazingly well in the next 30 years, sir. As a concept that is invisible, but so important. And that's cultural confidence. And I can tell you the story of cultural confidence because when I was born in 1948 in Singapore, it was a British colony. As a child, when I grew up in a British colony, I thought I was an inferior human being. I was second class because my color was not white. I said, oh, I cannot be as smart as good as the British. And I can tell you it's a very deep, psychologically debilitating thing to have a sense of cultural inferiority. Somehow in my lifetime, as our society succeeded and did better and better, the levels of cultural confidence kept rising. And as the levels of cultural confidence began to rise, you said, oh, I can do it too. No matter what you do, I can do it too. And we decided, and this is actually amazingly simple, we said that no matter what problem Singapore encounters, it's never a new problem. Somebody, somewhere, has surely encountered that problem. So all we have to do is go and study how others solved it, adapted, to your countries. And this is not just Singapore, but all the ASEAN countries did. But what really helped us is that in our region, we had a role model to get that cultural confidence. You first have to have an example of a society that succeeds, then the neighbors say, oh, they're not different from me. They can do it, we can do it. So first it was Japan. And when Japan succeeded, I can tell you, Japan's defeat of Russia in 1905 had an electric effect on Asia in terms of cultural confidence. And then after World War II, when the four tigers emerged, they did spectacularly well. And all the neighbors of the four tigers said, hey, Malaysia, Indonesia said, Singapore is so small. If they can do it, we can do it too. And so, okay, we will learn from it. And I can tell you, I conclude with one story, just to illustrate the story of cultural confidence. Indonesia, as you know, is the fourth most populous country in the world, the largest Islamic country in the world. And really, at one stage, was taught to be hopeless and all that. And one day, I was talking when I was ambassador to the UN, talking to my Indonesian counterpart. He said to me, for many years, Indonesia used to send its urban planners to Europe to study, why is Amsterdam so good? Why is Zurich so good? Why is Paris so good? They will write the brilliant report and they will come back to Jakarta, describe everything in that last paragraph will be, oh, but Amsterdam is in Europe, Jakarta is in Asia, Jakarta cannot be like Amsterdam. He said, one day, by mistake, they send the planners to Singapore. And Singapore's urban planning, by the way, is among the best in the world, clearly. And so they wrote a brilliant report, they came to the last paragraph, and they were going to write, but Singapore is in Europe, okay? Singapore is not in Europe. He said, that's the first time that the Jakarta urban planners said, okay, we can do it too. So that's why cultural confidence is key if you want to succeed. Wow, thank you so much. You gave us these two very crucial concepts, I think, confidence and hope. I guess this brings us very directly to you, Luciano Huck, because you are from Brazil, of course, but you also know Brazil deeply. You have walked Brazil in the last 20 years. I guess you have traveled all along Brazil and you have a TV program, which is a very famous one. And also in the last electoral cycle, you have been through a civic movement, Renova, Brazil. So I think that you, although you have never been probably elected to a government, you know a lot about how people think in communities and you have been interviewing leaders and candidates and so forth. So what are your ideas? What do you see in Brazil as the lack of trust? What's happening? What is your view about what is going to, what's the next steps of the new government in Brazil? So first, thank you, Luciano. Professor, your words fits perfect in Brazil also. I'm really happy to be here and for the one who don't know me, I'm a storyteller in Brazil and why I'm here on this stage. I'm here because I truly concern about global polarization about inequality and this touched me profoundly in Brazil and one of the most in equal countries in the whole world. And as you tell this story, I want to tell two short stories that maybe make sense to be here. As Alicia said, I'm a very, I host a very popular show in Brazil for the last 20 years and been traveling all over Brazil, from north to south, east to west. And I live in a country where I can wake up in my house in the morning, I can take a plane, fly 40 minutes, pick up a car, drive like for 25 to 30 minutes and I'm gonna be in the border of Minas Gerais and Bahia and very close to a beautiful river called San Francisco. And most of the people that live in this place and I've been there like six months ago don't have enough money to put food on the table. Like an hour from the place where I live and all the from Rio de Janeiro and all the stuff. And I think this in the 21st century is unacceptable, especially we are talking one of the biggest economy in the world that is Brazil. And I think my role until now in life was to use hope, use broadcast TV as an exponential tool to connect people all over Brazil. And that's what I did, that wasn't my job since now. But I wanna tell a second personal story that I shared with you, Marisol, yesterday. I was born two times in my life. I was born the first time in my life in September 3rd of 71. And the second time I was born was in 24 of May of 2015. Since that day, I'm a survivor. Me and my whole family, my three kids and my wife will survive a plane crash in Brazil. And since that I have been challenging myself to understand why I'm still here. And what I took from this experience for these years and it was that just only be on TV is not enough. So I need to act. And I think everybody in this room have a reason and why to be here. As I told you, polarization and inequality, things that in Brazil it's big now, touch me profoundly. So why we are so, the big inequality in Brazil, why of the biggest polarization that has special now after this election cycle? Why my country is so violent and so corrupt? And I think the government have a very special role on all these issues. The civil society, I think, can do their best, try to solve these important questions, but the only thing that truly can transform in an exponential way, Brazil, is government. And so what I did in these three years, these last three or four years, if government need to be reshaped all over the world and it can feel easy understand this after five days in Davos, be more efficient, be more, how can I say, effective, thinking about people that truly need help and the government is running by politics. So we need new politics, we need new leadership in Latin America, people who truly wants to serve in the proper way in the correct meaning and time of this world. And despite of this new government in Brazil, most of the cabinet that is formed in Brazil, it's with people 65 and over. This is not a problem, but it's clear that we need new people, we need new and fresh new leaderships in Brazil. It's easy to see that. I understand that on this forum, many people around is thinking and trying to figure out how we can dialogue, how we can put ideas to make the globe less inequality-fist against poverty, but I think it's not enough. We cannot stay here writing papers and discussing in meeting rooms. I think we have to go to action and be on the field and understand the truly the problems. And this is what I did. I'm trying to contribute to this necessary political renew in Brazil. In one hand, with like a generation call, that I can look around and easy find part of my generation running the biggest companies, running the biggest banks on the superior courts all over and when you look to politics, you have to work hard to find people that you truly admire and truly is there to serve and to try to solve the problems. So what I did, this is in one hand, this was a civic call, a generation call. In the other hand, I tried to not, I didn't want to get close to politics, so I tried to help through the civic movements. So in this last cycle, and it was the first move of a long journey, this was just the first, we did two civic movements. One called the Hanova, that it was very simple. I have a very strong social media community. So we made a call a year and a half ago, simple. If you've never been elected to any, to the office in your life, but you have a relevant role in your community somehow, apply. So it was a very hard subscription, it's like four hours subscription with interviews with lots of things. And we received 4,600 applications from all over Brazil. And we spend almost five months trying to curate all these people when we finally get to a group of 133 new leaders from all over Brazil, the 27 states and all colors, Indians, blacks, whites all over. And we launched 123 candidates. We said, quit your job. We're gonna do a scholarship for you for a year. You're gonna have 240 hours inside the classroom discussing Brazil and politics and all the new things with very shape and bright minds from Brazil. And if you want to be a candidate, we're gonna support and help. From the 123 we launched, we made 17 new Congress, men's and women's. So more than 10% is elected now in Brazil. So the political renewal for me in Brazil is starting from the Congress. And in the other hand, we did Agora. That is, we put together young technocrats who can easily think a new, nice and effective project for the country. Because in Brazil now we are discussing like, where are you gonna put the lights? Where are you gonna put the bin? But you're not discussing the building that we are making. So what we are proposing now is put together to make a hub of good ideas and try to design a project for the country that truly put us in a 4.0 government with new ideas, with new things, with having ethic as the most important thing. So this is what I have been doing the last years. Thank you, Luciano. Very interesting. Let me go to the public now, to you too. So if you have questions or comments, and then I would like the panel to come back and tell us some ideas, please. Well, thank you very much for all the new ideas and I have something to ask for the panel. So I haven't seen Latin America for many years. Normally when there comes a new leader, and I would say maybe the word of Rulismo, okay, immediately there is a kind of reaction from the people that thinks on the right and people that thinks on the left. And basically that maybe put the new leader more in the left, and I can remember when I was not in that time, but I read it. You know, when Castro just take power, he immediately went to the United States and the United States, he was not well received. So finally he just put it out and he has to go to Russia and look for other support. And same thing happened in different places in the world. In the case of Brazil where Lula took power, I think it was a kind of movement from the private initiative that really maybe teach them and he has a lot of experience, so really he tried to conduct Brazil in a moderate way. Of course, the post-Lula was a different situation. So in Mexico is the first time we have a really left person. Maybe his intentions are good. If you see the 100 points that he mentioned in the Socalo, I think Socalo is the main square. I think maybe at least 1994, we maybe agree. We don't, even as a private investor, but maybe there are six to seven that we do not agree. Anyway, if the private sector begins to kind of divide or kind of fight or whatever, normally with experience these people go more to the left and then they create us a problem. So what will be your main recommendation in order to try to conduct these new change for the right way which has demonstrated in other countries that it works? Thank you Juan Gilberto. Let us take a couple and then I would like to come back to the panel. We have a little bit of time. Can you introduce yourself? I know you, Juan Gilberto. He's a very important private sector representative from Mexico and you? Take a look from the panel. My name is Fernando. I'm a chief economist of the Brazilian Bank called Bradesco. I was absolutely enchanted by our story on cultural confidence, it's amazing. However, my question is how we developed this kind of thing because you said the example of Jakarta looking at Singapore maybe Latin America don't have those good examples. We have Chile, Chile is a great story. But I mean, how can Brazilians for example, and I had the chance to eye witness the job of Luciana congrats on your good role in Brazil, but how can we develop this kind of thing? Is this something that we need governments, we need institutions, whatever means schools to enhance people and so in a way they can engage and have the sense of cultural confidence because it seems to me the Singaporeans maybe, I don't know, they were born with that. You might give her an experience, but how could you develop that social confidence? Thank you. Great question. Let me take two more and then we come back to the panel. Please. Can you give us your name and thank you. My name is Mauricio Adadi. I'm Brazilian by the name you can tell. And I work for a Dutch company. You have mentioned interesting things or things that are much more emotional that you attach emotionally. I'd like to hear from you the relationship between impunity and corruption in the trust building. Because at the end of the day, I mean what you said is completely correct. I had the honor of living four years in Singapore. I can understand what you're saying. And from that perspective also, there was very strong and clear messages in regards of impunity. So it's a bit for the change management of the stick and the carrot. So could you elaborate on the stick please? Thank you Mauricio. Another one please here. Morning, my name is Mauricio Minas. I'm from British from Brazil as well. My question goes to Ricardo Hausmann and you mentioned about the unfairness of the society in Latin America. People believing that being rich isn't fair and somehow that's the wrong thing to happen. And what's the solution for that? Because when you take a look in some other societies, you see it working the other way around. And eventually that's the lever for them to thrive and to be prosperous in the long run. Very good. One more and then we go back to panel. We have one here please. Gary Haugen with IJM. Just as to safety and do impunity, I think the data may show that in Latin America there are not actually functioning criminal justice systems and that private security forces are between five and seven times larger than public security forces. So for the common poor person, the experience of whether or not there's any process by which their personal safety can be secured, that seems to be a significant obstacle. Thank you so much. Let's come back to the panel. Go first, young people go first. Thank you. Actually it's the other way around. So you said like we don't have in Latin America those kind of examples. And with all of my humblest, I have to say that Colombia is one of the examples that we can change a country in two decades. What happened in the night, in the 1991, it was like the worst time for us. We had Pablo Escobar, we have the coffee crisis. And what happened? In 1992, President Gaviria sent an ambassador to the region to be like kind of his ambassador in the city. And what she did, she grabbed like people from the left, people from the right, CEOs, and they go together for two days and they did like a prospective meeting. And they said we are going to be in 25 years recognized by our innovation. We have to have politicians, we have to have more at the private sector involved in what is happening in the city. And of course like it took a lot of time and energy and money. And of course, lives. 10 years ago, it was the first time that in Medellin, for example, they elected a mayor, Sergio Fajardo, and he was like the image of what was happening in Medellin. But what happened in that time, we have, we increased the number of the people, the military, the militars, education, something was happening in Medellin. And it's an example of what is happening in Colombia. We have a lot of problems, of course, so justice is not working, the education system doesn't work as I want. But I think we have those examples. And how we did it as a country, I think we had a common port, a common mission. And we did it. And we have a local example. And I think we have those examples even if we have to do a lot of more things. But I think are in our region. And second, when we talk about role models in my perspective for what I'm doing right now, like helping young people to train them with soft skills, everything starts there with role models. And what are the role models that we have in Latin America? So when you ask them, we did a huge survey and they love a sports person and of course, singers. And where are they here? They are not being involved in our debates sometimes and now in our discussions. So we should use our culture, the ways that we do things. That is I love that you are here. Because I think we need more media people, we need people that engage people because people listen to them. So if James Rodriguez says to the Colombians, okay, we have to be more, we have to have more empathy. We have to grow our growth mindset. That is what we do in my work. It helps a lot to engage them and then we can have a mission together. Thank you. Let's go to Luciano, some questions were addressed to you and then to Mabubani and we will close with Ricardo. Luciano, please. From the things I listened here, I think you said it's... In Brazil, if you don't put education as a priority, I think that's what happened in Singapore. You see what happened over there. We cannot build a new society based on ethics and that can open a truly new cycle for the country. What you have now is in this new government and of course we have to support all the positive agenda that are putting especially in the economic side. They're I think in the right path. We have to see how capable they will be to execute all the ideas. If they're gonna deliver all the things they're saying. But we have serious problems if you go for education. They are mixing religion and education that's very dangerous. They have some, we have big challenges on the foreign policies and politics. We have things in the human rights. So I think we have the next years in Brazil, of course we're gonna have to support all the positive agenda, but we have to be very concerned and very paying attention and things that can go wrong in our country. And again, I agree with you. When you come to a forum like this in these last three days I've been here. It's so sexy when you talk about entrepreneurs, you talk about how you're trying to reshape capitalism. When you listen to Bono talking here or say that the capitalism was the system that took more people out of poverty in the last decades, but it wasn't enough. And I think that the public sector don't have money in the countries like Brazil to solve all the questions and the problems we have. So we have to put the civil society together to make how government and politics can be sexy again for the people. And in Brazil, if you, a normal guy, come to her part, said, I wanna be a politician. He said, why are you crazy? Why are you doing that? You wanna be a thief? So we have to change. We have to bring a new meaning for the world politics in Brazil. And the only way to do this is to bring new people, new leaderships, new ideas, trying to make government sexy as is the social impact funds and the investments, all the stuff. So I think we have a big challenge in Brazil for the next years. Of course, I think we are better than we were in the last round. And you talk about left and right, I truly believe that, for me, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter the best ideas, it doesn't matter where it comes from. By the end of the day, from the 1% of the country that is have more money, all the stuff, if the economy is doing well and you can go on the street without being afraid to have a lost bullet, if make any sense in English, lost bullets, I don't think so. No, straight, straight. Convales? Straight. Straight, okay. If you have this in Brazil, it's okay. But we truly have to put as a priority the reduce of inequality in Brazil. And this go through education, self healthcare and technology. We have to talk a lot about this because technology for the last 20 years, if you go to commerce, if you go to media, it transforms completely where technology pass by. And you see governments, they still old, they still inefficient, they still big elephant on the room. So I think we have to address all these issues if we want to have Brazil a less equal country in the next years. Thank you, Luciano. Mabubani. Well, thank you. I think I had two questions, one on corruption and one on cultural confidence. Let me do the corruption first. And I would say if you want to study, of course, a case study of zero corruption in the world, how you go from high corruption to zero corruption, the case study, of course, is Singapore. In 1960s, when Singapore became independent in 1965, corruption levels were very high in Singapore. When my sister was sitting for primary six exams, which are very important, if you want to pass the primary six exam, you cannot go to secondary schools. She could buy the exam papers, corruption. You could get driving licenses, corruption. So how do you get educated? But what Singapore did that was unusual is that we decided that to kill corruption, you don't go for the bottom, you go to the very top. So in some time in the 1960s, one minister had a businessman friend. And the businessman friend said, come, take a holiday with me. And the minister said, I have very low salary, I cannot go on holiday with you. The businessman said, don't worry, don't worry, I'll pay everything. So the businessman paid for his holiday. Now, there was no bribe. There was nothing given in return. But when he came back, he was arrested. He charged and went to jail. So when you arrest the minister and put him in jail, just for accepting a gift, the message goes down very quickly. So don't try to go for the people at the bottom. Pick the ones on top and go for them. And unless you're prepared to attack members of the elite for corruption, don't bother with the people at the bottom. You won't go away. Now, on cultural confidence, the first question you need to actually honestly ask is a difficult question to ask because it requires rather deep psychological self-reflection. What is your current state of cultural confidence? And I can tell you in my case, speaking as an ethnic Indian, it's quite shocking that in my lifetime, I've grown from believing that we Indians were second class, you know, to the British and so on and so forth, to reaching a point where we thought we were equal. And today, if you meet the young Indians, those who go to study in leading American universities, those who go to work in Silicon Valley, they actually believe, not that they're equal, they believe they're superior. Can you believe it in one lifetime, to go from feeling inferior to equal to superior? So what happened? What was that journey? And quite simply, it's about succeeding. Because when you succeed, even at little things, you build up your confidence and you develop it. And of course it helps a lot if you have concrete stories in your neighbourhood. And that's what every Asian country kept asking, why is my neighbour doing better than me? And if you want to do a case study of how Asian countries can do spectacularly well, you take a country that was supposed to be a broken country, the name is Vietnam. It was fighting wars almost consistently for 50 years, from 1940 to 1990. 50 years of just fighting, fighting, fighting. The French, the Americans, the Chinese, they fought all the big powers. When the Berlin Wall came down, they thought Vietnam would be like Cuba, would suffer. Vietnam was finished. In the last 28 years, Vietnam has now become the number one economic miracle of the world. You just look at the data on Vietnam, the President Kim of the World Bank has said, the poverty reduction programme that Vietnam has, the poverty reduction results of Vietnam will replicate that in Latin America. Latin America will be a completely different region. And Vietnam started late, 1990. And Vietnam is on its way to becoming the next South Korea, the next Japan. Why? The Vietnamese said, hey, why are our neighbours doing so well? Why can't we do this well? Right? And by the way, they also have corruption in Vietnam. Despite all that, they succeeded. So success stories are critical here. So let me conclude with one positive success story. And as an example, when I first went to Colombia in 1991, I was telling you, I was a guest of Andres Pastrana. I was shocked how dangerous Bogota was, you know. To go from Andres Pastrana's flat to an apartment across. You could see the apartment, you had to go in this garage, get into a car, lock the doors, take a car, cross the street, and go to Andres's apartment building. Now in Singapore, you can walk anywhere you want. I'm too real, we're going to try real. Amazing, I was shocked. And in 1991, I was told, you cannot go to Medellin. Medellin? Medellin. Medellin. Medellin, okay. Impossible, dangerous. You know what, two years ago, I was the chairman of the nominating committee of the Lee Kuan Yew World City Prize. And we had given the prize to New York, to a city in Spain, you know, all the big success stories. The latest prize we gave was to Medellin. Lee Kuan Yew World City Prize, why? Because Medellin went from being from one of the most dangerous cities on planet Earth to becoming remarkably safe success stories. So if you can win the Lee Kuan Yew World City Prize with a city like Medellin, then find your success stories, real success stories, and use them to inspire people because propaganda never works. Thank you, Marubani, very good. Let me close this panel with my friend Ricardo Hausmann, please. Thank you. I'm very much like Kishore's formula of hope and confidence. I would add a third leg to the thing that would make hope not wishful thinking, but an actual reality and confidence, a reflection of reality also. And that is the fact that Southeast Asia has very, very impressive growth strategy that was export led from jobs that were in cities. That allowed them to go from simple things to more complex things, starting in garments, textiles, electronics, cars, and chemicals, and more complicated things. And that export capacity from cities meant that as the society urbanized, there was jobs that were not about selling to each other, but selling to a growing global market share. In Latin America, we have some countries have more successful exports, less successful exports, but exports don't come from cities. They're mining, they're agriculture, and so on. So when people move to the city, there is no more additional source of income in the city that's coming from the rest of the world. It's sort of like people selling to each other and the process of city growth leads to more shanty towns, leads to a different kind of city growth. So I think we should learn that to have hope, we should learn to have confidence, but we should develop something that gives, that justifies the hope and justifies the confidence. I also like very much the confidence idea to be a sort of like an inclusive confidence. It's not that we say the white elite can do it. It's sort of like that we, everybody, us can do it. And I would like to stress some of the things in which we don't know about our unfairness. For example, in 1776, we know the US declared independence. It's less known is that in 1775, the US, the Continental Congress created the Postal Service. The Postal Service was based on the idea that any incorporated city was going to have a postal office. And so that everybody was going to be connected, was not just going to be New York and Boston or whatever at the time. So that was, the Postal Service was sort of like the internet of things in those days, right? It was adopted in an inclusive manner so that everybody would be able to belong to that technology. In Switzerland, with all these mountains these guys have, the Postal System has a bus service. Clean, neat bus service. You're saying, look at the bus system in cities and how impossible it is to go to work. We have healthcare systems that are sort of like institutionalized apartheid, right? We have social healthcare services for the poor in some facilities, for the working, formal workers in other facilities and for the rich in different facilities. It's not that we have different forms of paying and then people go to the same services. We have, even in Colombia, you have sort of like housing apartheid. You have stage one, you know, stratum one, stratum two and then you've separated society by social strata. So inclusion into that process, I think, is also a part of that fairness. Tim, the question is that, and the question is how do we explain that being rich is not bad? It's not that being rich is not bad. The question is, how did you get rich? So is the wealth justified? Is the wealth merited? Is the wealth something that society should honor? And that depends, you know, on the way it was achieved. On AMLO, I think that you're in a bit of a trap because it's harder than you might think. Because AMLO is going to, you know, AMLO has really bad ideas. And since you love Mexico, you'll try to prevent him from implementing these bad ideas. And in the process of you trying to prevent him from implementing your bad ideas, you'll confront him and then he'll get mad, he'll feel excluded and so on. It's not that you just don't want to get along. It's that he has really bad ideas. Let me just give you two, you know, he just dramatically cut the salary of public sector workers. And well, you wanna run a criminal justice system that is going to fight major criminal organizations by people who want peanuts. You're just lowering the price of buying them off to make them be part of your criminal gang. So you would want to fight these things. You want to have tourism, jobs, export, et cetera, you need an airport? Well, we know what happened to the airport. So it's normal that as his agenda becomes an agenda you would want to oppose, that it will become a confrontational relationship. Obviously you want to get along and so on. But the problem is that you have very, very good justified reasons not to get along. And finally, let me just say that sometimes the most catastrophic things like Vietnam or other countries that got destroyed maybe have a chance to redo it in a better way. So since I'm from Venezuela and we are in the deepest of the deepest of the deepest catastrophes that ever has happened in our region or probably in the world outside of war. Let me just hope that in this reconstruction of Venezuela we do it with hope, with confidence, with fairness, but also with inclusive growth. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to all of you. I think we have some takeaways. I think we are taking with us hope. We are taking with us cultural confidence. We're taking with us something that is the neighborhood is important because I think for Singapore, the neighborhood. Mahbubani, you talk about the neighborhood. Our neighborhood needs to become much more positive in that sense. And of course the issue of impunity. I guess corruption, everybody can see corruption around the world. The problem is impunity. Honestly, this is something that we have to get rid of very soon. So thank you all very much. I think this session was great. Thank you to Luciano Mahbubani, my dear young leader and shaper. We hope to see you very soon on the top of the top. Ricardo, thank you very much and we wish the best to Venezuela. Thank you so much.