 Now the status of diversity in New York City, this is a, you know, a significant topic. And for this we have Dr. Rupamani Kandakar. She lives in New York City and she's going to help us understand the way things work, you know, the social dynamic, if you will, the diversity dynamic in New York City. Welcome to the show Rupamani. It's my pleasure and honor again to be invited on your show and it's a pleasure to interact with you. And so now we are speaking about a city which we both love and we both have on earth like our privilege to stay in New York. So let's Yeah, and it's not just the food, although the food is very, very important. Yes, yes. So right. So right. So let's let's talk about you for a minute. You're Indian. Can you talk about your, you know, early years and how you wound up in New York? So I'm Indian. I'm a Maratha Hindu from India and I got selected for the United Nations and I've come to New York and now an international civil servant and writing books on the UN and about life in like it's life in New York happened. It was a it was a fortunate happening in my life. So it's a treasure that I keep close to me and New York is a wonderful city, which whoever comes to New York can call themselves a New Yorker. So that's the magic of New York. You forget where you've come from and you call yourself a New Yorker. So that's the fun part of it. But you travel a lot too. So give us a short list of all the places you travel to. You have traveled. I think only Australia and New Zealand remaining the rest are all covered. I was just speaking before this that leaving Africa, New Zealand and Australia I've been all over and traveling, traveling keeps traveling is one of the best experiences that you can get out of life. So unless one time travel is like a page, a chapter of your life, well done. So you can pat yourself on the back when you've traveled, when you breathe in different cultures, when you breathe in different ethnic societies, you see diversity in the world. So that's what keeps you alive and that's what makes you understand the world is such a big place and such a small place at the same time. That helps you understand New York and by subversive living in New York helps you understand other places. I haven't lived in New York for a long time, although I visited a few months ago and I was struck by the diversity, the tolerance and people all really get along and back when I was a kid it wasn't quite like that. There was bigotry, there was racism and so forth but I don't think it's like that anymore. My sense of it is that everyone from every place gets along and it's a kind of, may I say it's a kind of new chapter in the melting pot. You see it in the media and you see it on the street, you see it in the businesses, the restaurants, the shops and you, let's start with the United Nations. What is it like at the United Nations? How do people get along? Are there bigots in the United Nations? In every country, in every place that we go, you are representative of what you come from and when you take it to where you are currently at the moment, it becomes a kind of dramatic representation of who you are and when all of them come together, when you meet somebody from another background, the visibility that counts and the visibility that you take in and absorb is what stands out. So in the United Nations when we have representatives from all over the countries and they speak their point of view, what we understand from all this is to be in a multicultural environment requires a lot of tolerance and understanding. So that tolerance is what makes New York, New York and the UNUN. So when you have respect for the other person's space, that is what makes the city multicultural. If the place doesn't have tolerance for the other, then you have closed countries or closed cities, closed spaces. So tolerance is a very, very important foundation for a multicultural, multi-ethnic environment to be sustained on and a community feeling. When you feel the front is no different from you, maybe a little different, but a human being, humanity comes in. These big ideas of talking that it is humanity, it is tolerance, it is understanding, it is respect for the other that come in and freedom to be who you are. Even when you are in a place, like if we go to, say, a Russian neighborhood and we wear our national clothes, they're not going to beat us. We can wear it. There is a tolerance to it. So that maybe they might show. But there is a kind of respect and a distance that is many things. And that distance defines multiculturalism in these places. So that happens. I grew up in Queens. Queens at the time it was kind of like a United Nations bedroom community. It was also a community for the airlines, which was not too far away, the airports. And so a lot of people associated with the airports and for that matter, the United Nations lived in Queens in my neighborhood. So my neighborhood was very diverse and nobody could give a rip. On the other hand, the Italians lived on one block. The Irish lived on another block. Jewish people lived on another block. The Japanese on another block. So they had their little enclaves. And I guess the question I put to you, is it still like that? Is it still like one block for one group, one block for another? Or is everybody mixed up now? By the way, Queens is the most, most diverse area in the world. So 800 languages spoken there. So we do have these neighborhoods still. And like you know, Jay, we have like most, maybe somebody might not go to Queens or Manhattan or something, but they will go to these, they will visibly know Chinatown or something like that. But the point in New York is we have close to 70 million tourists in a year. So you have something coming from outside also. So that kind of brings in more ingredients to the soup. And that is what doesn't allow you to differentiate. And when you have so many neighbors, everybody is busy in economy. They're busy in catering to tourism. They're busy in showcasing their culture. And most are busy in just keeping to themselves. They like to be, New York culture is basically just let me be my own and I will let you be your own. If you disturb me, you're in for it. So the advertisements in New York in the subway are above eye level. Nothing is at eye level. So you don't stare at anybody eye to eye. You have to either look up or you have to look down. You cannot disturb anybody's space. That is a very nice point that I saw in New York. So nobody really stare. Even if you have a gun and you sit next to me, you are most welcome. You're traveling on the subway. I'm traveling on the subway. So nobody disturbs each other's zone. And that is, that is very important in a multicultural city, country, or, you know, space that. Yeah. You know, the other thing I noticed on my trip was I could strike up a conversation with anybody and they would, they would respond to me, you know, a few years ago, you know, some of my family lived up near Columbia. Okay. And they had a party and this was into Harlem now. So I went to the party and it was a Saturday night and I decided I was going to walk down Broadway. That's a long walk. I was midtown of the long walk. And I walked down Broadway at like nine or 10 o'clock at night. And wow, what an experience. People were smiling. If I, if I did look at them, they looked back. They smiled at me. Maybe, maybe there was something about my clothing. I don't know. And I went into the bodegas. That was my favorite experience. In the bodegas you had these, you know, Puerto Rican people and they were so friendly. They were so friendly and warm and make jokes. Lots of jokes and I could make jokes and strangers now in the bodega. And I said, this is different than I remember it to be. We are, you know, we have a kinship. I have a kinship with them because of the city and I appreciate them. And I'm in their neighborhood and they don't mind me coming in their neighborhood then. They're not going to be, you know, they're not going to be angry at me or anything. My security was really assured. I was not worried for one minute that anybody would accost me, mug me or anything like that. And I found my walk down Broadway to be an extraordinary experience because it wasn't like what I remember. It's the new New York. You know, the Puerto Ricans get along with the African Americans. Everybody gets along with everybody. And you can strike up a conversation and make fun and have good humor. I found that in June too. And the guy I was traveling with said, how can you do that? Well, this is New York. You can do that in New York. You can stop a guy in the street and say, hi, it's all right. You know, you can't do that in too many places in the world. No. There is a lot of camaraderie in New York. See, there is something known as a potluck when everybody gets their own dishes. And in the UN, we do have these lunches where everybody gets their own dish. And so one such thing happened in Halloween, everybody got their own dishes. And at the end of the lunch, JV said, it all seems like it's from home. So it doesn't feel like it's from this country or there's not a lot of differences. Just plain delicious. So that kind of similarity that you seek to find in diversity is the thing that keeps New York going. And CJ, after the September 11 attacks, Islamophobia came into the forefront. You had a fear of the visible religion. You had a fear of religion which is visible to the eye. The hatred is a tad higher than religions which are not visible. I mean, sometimes you can't make out whether it's he's following a particular religion if he wears regular clothes, but clothes can display the religion and then hatred can follow. But even in the face of such a big catastrophe, the response was muted. It was not something like there was a massacre, which would have happened in any other place. Or if a community's attack doesn't mean the community start fighting with themselves. So the diversity brings around such a bonding that you feel he's my neighbor in New York rather than saying that, hey, he's ethnically this, he's racially that person I need to fight him. No, you boil down to being a New Yorker rather than being racial identity or my language is different from yours. Maybe I'll communicate in sign language. So it's basically about how much a city can tolerate. You know, my story back in 9-11, there's this Chinese lawyer and she went for a master's degree at NYU and she arrived on September 10th, 2001. And she woke up in the morning and everything was burning and the Twin Towers were coming down. And her building was like a block away because NYU has all these properties downtown. And so she had to leave, she had to evacuate the building and she was there in the smoke and the rubble and all the chaos. And she didn't speak that much English and she's walking around in lower Manhattan, not sure what to do or where to go or anything. Terrified. And all of a sudden the man taps her on the shoulder. He says, excuse me, are you? And he asked her name and she says, yes, I am, I am. And he said, I'm from NYU. I've been looking for you. So nice. So nice. So nice. There is a lot of care. There is a lot of care. How many lives are lost in New York without a base? It's crime. But hate crime and racial crime is limited compared to the other places. So, and when you go and see how immigrants have built the city up as their own, you know, you have people contributing. Suppose there's a voluntary event that takes place. The number of people who come forward to help volunteer, the voluntary help is phenomenal. They will not hesitate to come and assist or come and help like the New York Marathon. It's run purely on volunteers. You have volunteers who are at the finish line for the athletes for everybody. So, that's what makes New York such a city and the vibe of the city is something which you cannot deny because if you go to Central Park and you feel you're a New Yorker, you're a New Yorker. You can forget your identity. But how about the divide over money? I mean, there are people in New York who are wealthy beyond description. And we know what neighborhoods they live in. And we know what restaurants they eat and so forth. And then there are people who really don't have two shekels to rub together. And somehow they get along, they understand each other. Each one of them has a place in the New York society and they appreciate each other. But is it troubling, for example, to find somebody in the subway who's a billionaire and somebody who doesn't have any money at all? Is there a kind of divide about that? Is it a divisive phenomenon in New York City? Economically, we have two races who are financially not well off the Hispanics. And I think I'll just let you know about this. But they are financially down. But see, subways are used by everybody. There is like, and a person who has no money in New York can still survive. There are stories of so many people who have come to the city, started out in homeless shelters and built empires for themselves. One famous person I'll tell you is the master chef from India who came and he stayed in a homeless shelter. He started the first day in a homeless shelter. And today he owns a restaurant in New York and he's traveling the world. So there are so many stories of actors who have seen from, they've risen up the ranks in New York. So New York is a city where even if, you know, you don't have anything, you still feel you have everything. And survival is possible in New York. Well, the thing is, it strikes me that you can get a job. It was always thus, because New York is fluid in terms of jobs. Now, you're not going to get the CEO job, but you'll get a job. And so suppose I separate you from your job, suppose I put you out on the street outside the UN, for example. How long will it take you to get another job in Manhattan? You apply, you start with small jobs, you start with part-time jobs, you start with a couple of jobs, maybe you work longer hours. But survival, you know, your degree is if you don't, there are so many people who live without degrees. So people who have come without any qualifications and still made it, not made it to Trump Tower, but have made it, have made a house for themselves, have survived with a decent livelihood. So, and like, you know, Jay, majority of the population doesn't own houses in New York, they rent out their houses. And a considerable income is a reason for them through rentals. So, you feel like you're part of the crowd because everybody's renting a house. Nobody feels like if you're renting a house in Brooklyn or you're renting a house in Manhattan, you're paying rent. So you are fine with it, isn't it? The owners are few. So, once you own a house in New York, that's the time you feel, yeah, I've settled down. So you rent, take in people, you rent a room out. So that's what happens in New York. So, but nobody is in a rat race amongst themselves because everybody is in the immigrant board or they are in the New York board. So nobody's competing for status, everybody's competing for space and survival. So nobody's trying to buy a bigger house and show off their Christmas lights. Everybody knows everybody's renting houses or every few people are the owners and they like it. They don't show up. So even if you have a Hollywood star traveling in the subway with you, or if you have them opening an event in New York, in the United Nations, you feel like they're part of the crowd. They don't have anything spectacular about them when they're in New York. Everything feels like a movie set. I had once heard somebody say that. New York feels like a big movie set. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So do you ever experience, you know, racial prejudice? Did you ever feel that people were blocking you out in some way or treating you, you know, with, well, lack of respect? No, maybe because of the qualifications or maybe because of the place I was working. Maybe if I was working in a subordinate position, I would have felt that from a superior but working in the United Nations is a pleasure and honor. So everybody's, there's no, there's no boss in the United Nations. You work for your own sense and you try to solve the problems of the world. So let's see how many problems you get. So admiration. I want to talk about food for a minute, you know. When I was there, I talked to you and you gave me a recommendation for an Indian restaurant, something about spice. And it was just outstanding in every way, food and service, the food. I can still taste the food. That's how good it was. So food is, you know, it seems like, you know, COVID has taught us about food. We may be more interested, more sensitive to food. And I don't mean just the normal food that you eat, but all foods from all places. And, you know, I think that Hawaii, for example, could be a global center in food because we have so many cultures. Just as New York is a global center for food because there are so many cultures, so many excellent restaurants, and the competition among the restaurants makes it clear that if you can't cut it, you're out. You're going to fall. Somebody else take that space. But can you talk about the food in New York, the restaurants, and how the food plays this kind of democratizing effect on people? You walk in New York when you see, you always say, let's have Chinese today, let's have Indian today, let's have South today. You have this trend that you decide the kind of food that you're going to have because everywhere you have these food outlets and New York is known for entertainment food economy. So when you have a food place at an important part, and, you know, it ranges from a hot dog on the pavement to a fancy restaurant right up, say, anywhere, Grand Central or Trump Tower or the delegates lounge in the United Nations. So all these places, you can have any dollar spent on any cuisine you want, and your palate will be satisfied. It will not be, you know, your taste buds will not be disappointed because you can have everything everywhere in New York. And that's the beauty of it because when the immigrants came, they bought in each one bought in their own. And so we don't have being in New York means you can taste everything, you can be anybody you can do anything. So that kind of freedom that comes with it, you know, if you want to go to a Jamaican restaurant and have their cuisine, it gives you a feeling of being in the West Coast. So that much of authenticity, like we have back in India, when we have to have Chinese, they will say, no, no, this is not the Chinese that is made in China, this is Indian Chinese, you have put a lot of your own, but in New York, you can taste authentic cuisines as they are made in their own hometown. They've kept that. I don't know how this happens. But even in the melting point, each one has maintained their own unique identity. So that is very nice. That's because people demand it. They say, I want real Chinese. I'm on Szechuan right now. Every single group has a, you know, a pure expression of their food culture. And you can have that. You may have to travel a little bit, but you can have that. And I really, actually, I miss that. And I think Hawaii has to do better at that because we do have the cultural diversity, but the food we have to work on, I think, and they are working on it. But I want to skip to one other thing you mentioned, and that is entertainment. I take two parts of entertainment. One, of course, is the museums. You could be standing next to a billionaire and enjoying the same art, the same museum experience. And everyone goes, you can go to a museum, and it is as crowded as any museum in the world in Europe and Asia anywhere. It's kind of an avocation to see what they have and to see the best and the brightest curators with the most incredible international exhibits. It's all there, right? Yeah, it's so accessible, Jay. If you want to spend a day and you say, I want to go to the museum, you know, you feel, you have seen, you feel enriched when you come out, and that kind of experience happens in only a few places, like you go to the London Museum, and you go to the Louvre. It's that kind of a standard that is maintained in such a busy city. So you have just economy running on the street, and suddenly you have something which gives you a cultural experience, which gives you an experience of heritage. So, you know, you can spend, you can teach your children that there is a diversity even in things that the city offers back to its citizens. So when we decide to spend the time in the museum, it is a thrilling experience or going to the zoo. You know, you learn about so many things. So going to Central Park is like a totally different experience. You really feel, I mean, nobody can cross Central Park in one day, but when you go through for a jog or you go for the zoo, everything, you feel, wow, it's a nice event. You know, people come from another place just to see this, and we are privileged to be staying here and enjoying that and sunsets and everything in New York changes. Nothing is same. You cannot say, I just did this yesterday. Why should I do it today? So every day also becomes unique, and the experiences that you can have can range from, and Jay, what about the markets that happen in New York, the farmers market in Union Square or you know, you have the Hispanics or anybody letting us putting up a music show in Bryan Park. So you have these places where you can just be part of that culture for a moment and come out. So you enrich yourself, it's like traveling, isn't it? Like you are speaking. When you travel, you pick up experiences, you pick up love from another place and you keep it in your hand. So that's the same place in New York, when you experience an evening or you experience a visit to any place, you're going with the crowd, but you're picking up so many things from the city and it's something that you'll never forget, never forget. I mean, I'm sure every traveler who leaves New York has a tear in their eye and wants to come back. So it's that kind of a place. You're as much a New Yorker as anybody I ever met, Roopmati. So let's talk for a moment about performing arts. Let's talk about music. Let's talk about dance. Let's talk about opera. Let's talk about Broadway. How can we not talk about Broadway? This is a leveling experience. It's not only that you can find so many things that enlighten you intellectually and culturally, but you're sitting next to somebody and the seats are small and you feel the person next to you. When that person applauds, when that person laughs, when that person has an emotional reaction, it's transmitted to you. So the audience is all together. Talk about how that works. Oh, Broadway is magical, isn't it, Jay? The lights of Times Square and, you know, you feel, you feel just a star factor in that entire environment and not only us, even the Hollywood stars who come from the lights feel it's a privilege to star on Broadway. They feel it's part of the resume. And so to experience this kind of thrill and this kind of live entertainment is unique to this place, to New York and to America itself. America, like I'm telling you, New York is one of the most beautiful expressions of being an American. And it showcases all the right values of freedom, of expression, of what do you say, of that thing where you can, you have, you can dream and you can achieve it. So when we see on Broadway this extravaganza of lights and dance and music, it thrills the thrilling and the hallowing parades, Jay, what about the parades? You're missing out the parades. I mean, those parades, the Navy parade, the Halloween parades, they are so, you blend with them. I mean, how can you wait for it? Like when can I have the next parade? And I mean, New York comes together. And Halloween is just one experience you have to have in New York because the entire city transforms into a masquerade ball. So you have every character around you and it's wonderful. It's just wonderful. Well, that takes me to something you mentioned a minute ago and that is Central Park. And I visited Central Park and I visited Washington Square Park, which is a kind of very condensed Central Park, so much there and only a couple blocks. But, you know, go to the parks now is way different than going to the parks when I was in school. It's like everything, everybody from everywhere, every kind of nature, everything, everything, some things really weird, really weird with families and kids and strange people, strange cultures. And it presents slightly differently in the sense that Washington Square Park is a reflection of Greenwich Village, which is a very strange, creative neighborhood. And on the other hand, Central Park has everything. It has everything for everybody and you can just sit on a little bench and watch them pass by and see the whole world passing you by. So do you do that? What is it like for you? What does it mean for you? Central Park is one of the most magical places because just because of the changing weather, you can see the entire reflection of the climate on the foliage. In autumn, you have a beautiful flash of colors. It's like God's painting it for you and in snow, it's completely white and on autumn day, everything is just dry and every sunset is different. So, I mean, I have not been able to say one day is the same as the other and sitting on the benches of Central Park is, you've seen Enchanted, it's something like that. You are just happy and grateful that you have reached New York and you are experiencing this for that moment in your life. So, it doesn't matter what comes tomorrow, what happened before, it's that experience that you stay in that moment. And New York is all about moments, if I tell you, Jake, nobody carries a baggage. Everybody's got their own issues and everything, but if you tell them, ask them, they tell you that time. Nobody's got the patience or time to talk about before or talk about after. They will just give you a brisk hello high and nobody will interfere in your life or nobody will disturb you if you don't want to be disturbed. So, it's how much you give, you get. So, it's very Einstein's law. So, my last question for you, Rukmati, is this, you know, you've been there for years now and you've seen it and you've seen a change and I would like to know what you think the future is like. Will we have more diversity, more tolerance? Where is it all going? I mean, you paint a nice picture and I think it's an accurate picture as far as I'm concerned, but where is it all going? Will we see more racial diversity, more religious diversity, more cultural diversity, more food diversity, more intellectual diversity? Will we see more of that going forward? Are you seeing that change now? Yeah, Jay, I think New York is progressive and we just find that it was a little disturbing a couple of years back when we saw the people on the street. There was a racially colored phenomenon which happened on the streets and in which the streets of New York were looted and it was not known whether they will open back again. They were apprehensive of the business if they were going to be ransacked like that. So, I hope the tolerance of New York stays in this way because New York in the, yes, the years was known for crime. It was supposed to be a scary place. From that, we have progressed to being such an adaptive city and a representation of the right values of America. So, we have to respect and we have to take responsibility that this should go ahead. It should not be regressive and we should not demean ourselves to low values of coming down to divisions and divisive politics will be played. Of course, it will be played for a political mileage, but that should not affect common life. Economy is one of the running factors of New York. Entertainment is one of the running factors. Food like you said and if you have these simplistic things being colored with the political use of hate and divisive nature, it is not good for our city. It is not good for our country and we have to understand, we represent American values. So, we have to understand this is culture of America and culture of America is represented in the mixed blend of immigrants. Their values are reflected in freedom, liberty and respect. We have to bring that out. If you go on dividing it, it will lead to a very wrong picture because like we have discussed in our previous programs the world looks up to America. America is the hegemon of international world politics, of the international world order. We can't forget that. So, what happens in America is seen outside. So, likewise, each city, each person has to understand. Even if the immigrant comes in, he has to understand. He is part of being American, a New Yorker and he has to understand his responsibility. If he does something, it's not right. He has to work towards progress of the country and I am of a very strong opinion that when immigrants come into any country, they are supposed to blend in. They are not supposed to disturb the peace and decorum of that place. If you disturb it, please leave. If you don't, please blend in and help our city to progress as our own. You have to be, you have to have a oneness with the city. Only then you can take it up with you. You can't divide and you can't disturb the culture of a place. I can't resist asking you one more question, Ruth Monty. It was an article in The Times not too long ago about some fellow who was running for office and he was in his early 20s and he had come from this generation, this generation of youth and vitality and diversity that we've been talking about, tolerance. He was running for office and I said to myself, this is the future and New York germinates people like this and I want to see him in Congress if for no other reason that he's part of that generation, that he brings this special quality to Congress. Congress needs that so much. Like in a matter of fact, Congress needs AOC, right? She is an important contribution of the whole New York thing, the Congress. So what do you think about that? What is the role of the young generations that you see around you in New York who are diverse and tolerant in every which way, who could be, maybe they will be leaders of the country going forward? CJ being an old-fashioned politician and a new age politician, there is not much of a difference but you see old age politicians brought people together. They built the foundation of our land so they must be doing something right. So the new age politicians who are thinking that they can collect political mileage out of divisive politics, they should call that. They should mute that. You have to take in everybody. If the role of a politician is to mute the divisive powers and if there is something wrong, something racially or ethnically or something hurtful to the immigrants happens, they don't highlight it. They have to take it back, address that problem and bring it into the majority. If you highlight and you know you milk out political mileage out of it, it will benefit you personally but it will damage the city and the country to a large extent. So this kind of new age politics, I kind of disagree with that because they play to the media, it's not a circus, it's politics and politics is supposed to help people and politics is supposed to assist people towards employment towards a good livelihood. That is the role of a politician, not divide and collect political mileage. I keep my seat, I keep my representation in the house through divisive politics. One community will work for me, I'm sure about that. I will keep my seat and I will carry on ahead. That is not right. Politics is about bringing a harmony in as ideal as it sounds. Politics is about being neutral and being neutral means muting the divisive area and bringing out the positive. So bringing out a balance in your society will help new age politicians much, much more than I feel. I just feel they play to the media and taking media coverage out of highlighting something which can be divisive or can be dangerous is like that spark which lights a fire. Politicians are not supposed to light that fire. That spark has to be shut down. Okay, I want to be clear about this. I'll vote for you. Rupmani Kandakar, our friend in New York, our friend at the United Nations who speaks to us about all kinds of subjects. Thank you so much for joining me today, Rupmani. This was a really wonderful discussion. Thank you so much. Always, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.