 We are back with our expert of the day. It's not his first time here. He always has a gem of wisdom when it comes to mental health and everything around it. Allow me to introduce Tere Morioki, who is a very passionate activist of positivity and good mental health. Karibu Sana. Asante, Mori, it's a pleasure to meet you again. We've been keeping well and at least we've done a lot for giving us help and being able to meet once again. Thank you for honouring us with your presence once more. I think you're becoming a fast-fave right among our audience. I love what I do. Politicians are happy when they meet people and embrace them. I'm happy when I assist a soul to come and realise this and this I need to change. Absolutely. Any time. Yes, that's your true calling. Thank you. And today is not different. We have this amazing young mum. Her name is Queen Muthel. She's gone through her own time well of now having a baby and not being in an okay mental state to take care of her baby. The more she kept telling her story, the more I kept realising. Oh my, this is something that is very common and I don't want to label it but it's a chance of having postpartum depression. And maybe from your professional perspective you can explain to us what postpartum depression is, factors about it, what are the symptoms and then we can also decipher towards the end how we can avoid it altogether or how we can actually deal with it when it arrives especially for young mums like herself. Please have the floor. Thank you and Karibu Muthel. Thank you. In simple terms to the language of every person, like I like avoiding all terms that are scientific. One thing, what is depression? It is trauma. And trauma that is beyond your mental capability. Actually in the medical world we do not have the real cause of depression. So they don't exactly tell you it is caused by this and that and that and that. They will give other many reasons. This causes this. Now back to depression. Depression simply I can call it sandiness that is not coming to an end. In simple language you are getting annoyed you are so unhappy until the unhappiness. I'm happy with you. It's done with you. Okay fine I'm staying too. You do not know how to deal with it. You do not know how to address your pain. In layman's language depression is pain that is billowed expression. I see. You've lost somebody. You've mooned. You've grieved. But you are aching until you can't ache anymore. And now this goes beyond trauma because you are already dealing with trauma. Now you go to the next level. You are depressed. Now you cannot tell the moon you are unable to deal with your feelings. You are not in touch with the reality around you. And you know the normal social realities. You are expected to overcome something. Absolutely. And it happens all the time. I could be annoyed with you. You could be annoyed with me. But then after a few hours we are back. We are expected to go back. Now this one you don't come over it. Now when you get to that level like you are saying about her. The moment she sees that child it becomes a reminder of a painful experience. And who wants something that hurts them? No. Not anyone. And indeed she actually mentioned it. And she said every time I see my child I'll just remember. One minute this child was calm in the trauma. But the trauma I went through to bring that to the world. Just to push the baby. Yes. Without painting any profession. But these people help women and ladies to go through the process of delivery. And giving birth. If you ask me they need to go through serious training in the field of counseling. And handling human beings. I don't mean to say they don't know. Yes. But sometimes they do not understand when someone has crossed the path of their trauma and pain. And they do not assist instead they increase. They increase or they even create. Yes. Right. So now you find a lady who is coming out of giving birth. The voices that she had from the maternity. Right. The delivery room. Yes. The treatment she went through. Right. And then she realized. And it's true. By the way for you queen did that happen when you were in labor? The people who are assisting you kind to you? Yes they were kind to me because one of the nurses was my aunt. Oh okay. So they were treating me with care. Yes. But one of them was very ash. Oh no. Actually because I was trying to measure the. Yes yes yes with the fingers. The dialysis. Yes. Then I would cross my legs and rotate myself. Yes. Then they were so annoyed. They are telling me you will kill your own baby. Yes. I can see. And we can identify already. Yes. From that. And I want to believe this was her first baby. Yes yes yes. So you can imagine someone telling you you will kill. No one loves being called a mandara. No. However the trauma she is through in she is unable to reason and understand. Yes. The magnitude of what you are telling me. Absolutely. And you are two people not communicating. Right. One is in this world. And the other one is in another. She wants you to deliver so she can move on to the next one. And when they measure. I am not trying to teach them. Yes. But you realize. Yes. This is a person who has maybe the first child. Yes. Who has not been examined on a private parts. Very true. In public. Very true. I do not know why she is laughing. Yes. She should have experienced it. No I am remembering when I was about to give birth. Yes. Like I was feeling like true poop. Yes yes yes. Yes. The doctor said na kulete ando. Kuna ando mingya. So now they brought two parts. No. But unfortunately it was the baby. Oh. So I was with my mum there. Okay. My mum told me no don't continue. Yes. So I ran to the bed. Yes. Then when I slept there and opened my legs. I opened them myself. Yes. My friend and one to touch me. Yes. Yes. So now I saw the doctor. Amela and coming with those instruments. Yes. The instruments for delivery. Yes. Why? I just pushed the baby. Yes. And fainted. Oh my. Because you didn't want them to cut your child. Yes. To cut you up. To cut me because of the pain I was going through. Okay. The fingers, the needle. Yes. In fact they kept a needle to pierce my water. Oh wow. So it was. Yes. Oh. Sorry to hear that. And you can imagine. Yes. She passed out. Yes. Not because of what you say. Yes. The pain she was through. Yes. And this now brings us to looking at depression. Yes. It's a very painful experience that one goes to. Very true. And if as a society we can be able to help people walk through their painful experiences. Right. We can listen. Yes. The people who are turning into depression. Very true. Because losing a family member. You can be depressed and postpartum. There are so many causes of depression. One thing that is very clear. Depression has a root cause. Which is either physical. Yes. Or mental. Yes. Yes. And these two you cannot separate them. Very true. However when we go deeper into it we will not say this chemical, this neurotransmitter is not working. Yes. And so we can balance it. Yes. When you are in depression they will always give you antidepressant. Yes. So that they can know you and balance you. Yes. And sometimes they knock you off. It's true. So from a psychological perspective. Yes. How can we reduce pain and trauma. Yes. People go into depression through abuse. True. Have you ever thought of people who have been raped. They enter into serious depression. Yes. Because this is not what I expected. Yes. This is not what I planned. Yes. If we ask her our imagination of having a baby. Yes. And what she went through. That day and night. Absolutely. And that is not what she had begging for. Exactly. To start with. Exactly. And that is why. Now coupled with the pain that she went through in the process. Yes. I do not know Muzewa story. But if my experience. I have delivery problems and issues. Yes. I can almost tell the yandan issue with the boy friend. It's true. Right? It's true. It's true. It's true. So this depression is not a car when she gave birth. It's true. It's a car a long time ago. Yes. Maybe she was rejected. Yes. Actually just for matters and purposes of just recovering. She had actually lost her first pregnancy with the same boy friend. And then months later she became pregnant. So it wasn't something smooth and no for a normal couple to say let's sit down. We're going to have a baby. She was only a baby. She was a baby herself. Yes. And then she has this boy who at that point he is just having his fun. And he's not going through half of the things she's going through. Carrying this child, delivering it. But he's a boy who is just observing from another perspective. So yes. And that's the closest person she expects to go through the journey with. And those are the places where our depression gets to the rooftop. Because there is no day I expect my partner, my child. Yes. My mother to neglect me or to do a negative thing that causes me pain. Exactly. And because it is done by my mother, I am able to understand. Yes. How could ma'am do this? Imagine Maureen if you put something or hurt me. It is easy for me to deal with it. Sure. I will say Maureen nimuki kwe. Yes. Maureen nandikwana. I will have reasons that give me an opportunity to overcome and cope. Absolutely. It's true. Wait until Maureen will become my darling. Yes. How could Maureen do this? How can she do this? Yes. And I am unable to come out of it. Very true. So if we can be able to address our sources of depression and trauma and pain. Yes. Because it is not the depression that comes. It is trauma and the pain that comes first. It is the cause. Now when it is, I am unable to deal with it. What can we do? My body moves. It moves and it goes into a state of... My mind realizes we are in danger. Yes. We have to do this so that we can address this. Exactly. And that happened to her a lot. And her thoughts were this baby I don't want to hold it. I don't want anything to do with it. In fact, at some point her baby was so malnourished. Yes. And it's only because she was unable to feed this baby. And then I think everyone around her... I mean if you see your mom crying. They started taking the baby away from me. Exactly. And she sent me to you. Yes. So that I can interact with people. Yes. Friends. Yes. I think it all comes down to purposes of ignorance. Yes. Once people do not know what they are dealing with. How can they resolve it? Now unfortunately in Africa, in our country, we do not have deep understanding on how to help people who are grieving, who are in pain, who are suffering trauma. We actually aggravate the issue. It's true. One of the best solutions for someone who is going through painful moment is to allow them to be themselves. It's true. And it's one way to allow the body, the mind to do what it needs to do. If they are making noise, she was in a family setup. The best if she was undressing. Most people undress. Sure. Allow them. Yes. Allow them. Okay. As long as the environment is safe. Yes. If for example it's a time when daddy is not there, it's a big girl, mother, brothers are not there. Yes. And sometimes we feel to remember it is in the family where our shame is supposed to be protected. It's true. Unfortunately we don't do that. It's exposed actually. Yes. Now we cause more pain. Because I always agree with people. It's the worst if she's undressing, if she's making noise. Allow her. Make sure there's no object she can harm herself. Right. Let her be with time. If it has reached some levels, mix it with medication. With time it is easy to come out of depression when you are in the right support. Absolutely. Than when your support system is pushing you away. Allow saying and pushing you away. Or aggravating. By calling new names. Yes. And by hurting you. Right. Right. Now when we go in pain and trauma, that is when we are reminded Uliaribu Pensa, Kukuni Skisah. Kupichongumu. Like for her self-blame also. When she was like Muna nilizan kuwama dogwa in it. Yes. And I can maybe tell it was coming from the family. Of course. It's always the family. So she starts asking. So I am good for nothing. My esteem dives down. I have no word for I. And that's the end of it. When we lack word, there's no meaning of living. So you feel I am not needed. Actually. No wonder we have so many people in depression and trauma. Yes. Thinking of killing themselves. It's true. Because they have lost it. It's a never ending tunnel. Yes. That's dark. Every day it gets dark, darker, darker. And you do not see. Right. The end of your way. Especially. And not only is it mental, but what is mental also transpires to be physical. To be physical. Because personally having gone through actual depression, actually postpartum depression and actual depression, I'll find myself never wanting to get out of bed, never wanting to open the curtains, losing interest in everything, not being able to eat. It's never ending and it's physical manifestation as it is mental. And what I'm hearing is this hope. This hope to just go through it, but most importantly, recognise it. So, with your final remarks, for instance, we speak about the general depression, but it's the same depression that comes with postpartum. What would you tell people out there, especially again young parents like Queen and also parents of Queen and the family members around them who actually are in charge of this person. What message can you send them out there? One word. Love. At that particular time, I know it's the most difficult time for both the caregiver and the person who is in pain. But when you love, I am able not to push the person deeper into the state. One thing is very common anyone who is in depression or one who is in pain, they always get back on even if it is for a few seconds. What word do I release when they have come back on? At that particular time, they may ask, ma'am, am I that bad really? It's the moment the mother should wake up hard the child and assure them you are my best. You don't know how far that takes the person. It's true and I agree. Because they are down they are only looking for affirmation assurance that I am not a right of. And once you do that, you reassure in small bits so they say, ma'am, do you love me? You are the best child. I do love you. I have said the word, hug. It is the greatest thing you can offer that you don't need to pay for. It shows attachment. Protection. Cover. The moment those things are done you might be shocked at the weight of recovery of the person. But now when they ask those questions and you offer something negative you push them because they are asking from the premise they are having doubts about themselves. They have a state they are in they can see where they are they are wondering will I ever make it absolutely or will I move forward from this. And the person they are asking is a caregiver someone who has authority and they have all what it takes to help the person come back to themselves and with love I can assure you it's the best medicine and it breaks barriers it overcomes everything and that's what I can say is the most thing because when they come for therapy we don't over much an animal we call Yes Unconditional positive regard and we give them an environment to express themselves without judgment without coordination and we start the journey of recovery I believe even families can do the same. And should anyone want to reach you where can they find you? Thank you I am based at View Park Towers the 15th floor door number 11 and I practice under the name Papas Cancelling and Wellness Center this is where we transform minds from this to that and I have seen tremendous change all what they need is to carve courage and walk to Papas and the journey of recovery very few cases of any with a lot of cases of success and I'm not drumming I'm not beating my drums that's the reality and I know therapy works therapy works and everybody needs a bit of therapy Queen your last words to a young mum like you out there to a mum who is like your mum out there who doesn't know what's happening I think they should just understand their daughters they should not even look down upon them like they start telling them those bad words because of the depression and actually they should bring them closer so that the daughters will be able to share everything now just like my mum back then I would not talk to mum some things but now I'm free I can just tell my mum everything okay and should anyone want to reach out hear more about your story where can they find you your social media do you have social media handles yes okay I just want to thank you both for again sitting down with me and sharing from the bottom of your heart this transformational journey of the nest it's a safe space kiyota and you're welcome again and I hope that you keep spreading hope and being an activist of saying it is okay not to be okay and everything comes to an end thank you so much for always giving us a gym a gym of wisdom for accepting our invitation and again like I said you'll be coming in a first favorite on the nest guys kinacho, moanzo, kinamusha pier and this is where we conclude today's program on postpartum depression I hope you've learned something the takeaway for the day is love love love love love cures it all love with hugs love with therapy show and tell that person who could be going through this thing called depression which we do not know where it comes from but at least we know it is brought by a traumatic event can be overcome let's be kind to one another professionals out there especially people who come into transition with mums always have an encouraging word and we can make this world a better place by bringing home happy mums who will bring up happy children should you want to reach us you can always get us on our social media handles at Y254 TV you can also reach me on NYT2 on all my social media pages and you can share your story and get in touch so that we can keep nesting on the nest special thanks to the crew my director, my producer and also Tomoka Kofi for hosting us every time and for your delicious coffee and again today I'm dressed by Boss Bebs Boss Bebs 254 I really love the look from Strines and Cows by Mo and everything else is good see you next week sometime simply