 I want to cancel the examination. Okay. But what was Drona saying? Drona said, don't be so upset. Why do you want to cancel? If you don't pass the examination, that's okay. I will teach you more. But you have to learn. You are the heir to the throne. You will be the next king of the Astrodon. If you can't help yourself, if you are ignorant, the world will be ruined. Astrodon will be ruined. I'm going to tell that Drona was angry. He talked like this. He said, Drona, my teacher, don't you remember what you were like before you came here? You were poor. I have given you everything. I have given you money. I have given you a house. I have given you a palace. You have to do what I say. If I want to cancel the examination, you cancel the examination. And if you don't want to, get out of here. Leave. Go away. Drona replied, you should follow the example of the Pandu. The Pandu are interested in learning. And you should be wise like them. They just want to get lots of money so they can have money like me. And I have lots of money already. Drona said, stop talking like that because if you do not manage your money well, if you just put it in a mattress and sleep on it, you will someday lose all of your money. Drona said, why should I complete my education? I don't have to write a thesis. I can just copy somebody else's thesis and hand it in as mine. That way I'll get my degree and I'll become even richer. And Drona was very sorry to hear this. He said, Duryodhana, that is plagiarism. Your thesis must be your original work. You will be caught. Your degree will be taken away. You will lose your honor. And Duryodhana said to Drona, the only good thing about my education here is that we have lots of money for games. That is where the money should be spent for games. Cut the budget everywhere else, but keep my games. Drona chastised. He said, no, Duryodhana, education is important. Teaching is important. Learning is important. That is where the money should be spent. Not for games. You can't take the money away from teaching and learning. If you hear that before the examination, Sakuni, the king's assistant, changed the Pandua weapons, he replaced them with bad material. Sakuni replaced the weapons. Yes, that way the Koroa will win out stronger weapons than the Pandua, and the Koroa will be sure to win the examination. That isn't right. They shouldn't do that. Oh, but anyway, look, the examination is about to get started. The soldiers are cheering. Let's go watch. Kito Pinnacle Saxi. Okay, boss. I'll be the umpire, and we'll get started. And so, first up, it will be Nakula for the fighting begin. The Pandua have won because this shows the value of education. Education? Yes, education, because the Koroa had those stronger weapons, the Pandua had the weaker weapons, but they won anyway. They won because they are disciplined, because they want to learn. This shows us what Residrona has taught us about the importance of education. Is that all? Because this is all the time our American Dawang had in Bali. This is all he was able to learn. I hope he can go back to Bali sometime soon and learn more. Yes, I hope so. Maybe he could learn all of the Mahabharata and perform the entire Mahabharata and maybe the Ramayana too. Well, that would be fun, but I think it would take about several months to perform all of that. Maybe he can just learn a little bit more. Okay, well, that's fine. All right, that's all. This is at the end. You can go now. Smoothly and easily. And I apologize to all of you and I apologize to my teacher, for all of the mistakes that I have. Questions? Discussion? What would you like to know? In Bali, how often are performances like this given every day or just on holidays? It all depends. They can really be done quite often, and they tend to be performed more often at certain times of the year when festivals are happening, but they're very expensive to produce, and so the family or town has to save up a lot of money for this. And so in answer to the question, at any given time, any given town might do one only a few times a year, but whenever I've been there and been traveling around on any given night within an hour's drive, we can find two or three performances going on. So they're happening quite often. It's interesting that when you look at the shadows, you can't see how beautiful the puppets are. But they're so elegantly decorated. So what's the explanation for that? Because they're not for you. It's for the gods. The gods can see the puppets. The gods can see how beautiful they are. So they're decorated with the gods. Now in Java, the audience will watch from the shadow side, and so they will see the puppets because they want to see the puppets, they want to see the beauty of the puppets. But in Bali, very few of the audience sees the puppets, and it is much more specifically religious and devotional than it is in Java. But the philosophy is still the same. It's just the people have chosen to sit on the other side. In Java? Yes, it's more complex in Java because it's predominantly Islamic. And so these are plays about Hindu gods. And I think what that shows us is that Islam has practiced in Java and I'm by no means any expert on this, is much more of a syncretic religion than people in America might understand. There are many different forms of Islam and that this is a form of Islam that has no problem incorporating Hindu gods, Hindu stories, and so forth. And there is still clearly a devotional aspect to it. There is a spiritual aspect to it. It is not as explicitly about the practice of their religion the way it is in Bali. But still, it's serving a devotional function. There is also a form of Guam in Java specifically about telling Islamic stories and about teaching Islam. Yes? I've got a couple questions. How long does it take for the puppets to be constructed and is there a certain type of material like a certain type of animal to use? Because I know you said they're made out of leather. Yeah, it's cowhide that is used. And I don't know exactly. I know it is a process of curing it, flattening it, curing it, scraping it, and then the cutting. And I don't know exactly. My teacher told me that these were puppets that he was making for me while I was there and then gave me these puppets. They appeared awfully fast. I would not doubt my teacher. So it is a very long and laborious process. I don't know exactly. I think that's the other question I had, too, was like the dyes and the colors are used. Is that all native things to that area? Or are they getting done from another area? Traditionally, yes. Well, they often, yes, are using much more. So, for example, in western Java, the area around the Sundanese region, around Bandung, there's a famous puppeteer as a television show named Asap, and he uses automobile paint on his puppets because it's very bright, it's very glossy, and he likes that very sharp effect. So, you know, there's a fascinating whole issue of issues of tradition and colonialism and going on that is part of this, too. Because I think in the West, we often have this idea that we want to preserve. It's important to keep the tradition. It's important to preserve the tradition. The tradition is important. And there certainly are people in Bali and Java who believe in this importance of tradition, but there are many other people who believe that it's absolutely essential to keep updating it and keep changing it. And if you look at the tradition, actually, the question of the tradition is very questionable and very problematic. And to a large extent, the tradition was invented by the Dutch colonialists. And so the issue of tradition is problematic and hard to think of. So what is native? What is traditional? But in a way, Asap kind of, I felt gave me permission for doing the course the way I do it and teach how to do it. Because he's very controversial with his television show and the kind of updating that he does. And when I interviewed him, he said to me, what I do in Java is Javanese, is Sundanese, why I'm going. What you need to do is go to America and make America a way. And so I felt in that way that many of the kind of innovations and changes were making here, I feel I have Asap's blessing in doing so. If not always my teacher, but don't jump in as much more conservative. Does your teacher or do other Dalungs, do they do this as like a career or is it more like a hobby? It's his career. Yes, this is what he does. Though there are many Dalungs who perform due to tourists shows. And he's very critical of that because he feels that you lose your talent. You're debasing yourself and that you just become a kind of showman and losing the spiritual aspect of it. And then some people are fantastically wealthy like Ceng Long, like Asap. What makes one a good Dalong? How do you know that? Recutations is one thing. But then also it has to do with the dance of the kionic. So someone who is a devotee of this, they're going to be able to see the dance of the kionic immediately and determine how good you are based on the motions that you are doing that. And that dance was something we spent hours and weeks studying because he would say to me, someone watching your performance will recognize that you are a good Balinese Dalong because of the exact performance. It was fascinating as a student of his to do this because so much of the teaching we do, especially in the humanities, has to do with what your opinion is and what my opinion is. And it's all relative and we can discuss it. Nothing is right and nothing is wrong. His teaching is, here is the way to do it. And the way to do it is the way to please the gods. And this is step one. And we are not moving on to step two until you get step one right. So I spent hours on that dance of the kionic and we spent hours practicing that. And then he'd say, okay, go back to your hotel and practice it. And I'd go back and practice it and I would come in the next day and he said, did you practice? And I would say yes. And he said, did your wrist hurt? And I'd say no. And he would say that you didn't practice enough. So it really is a matter of watching those fine points which the devotee of it will be able to tell. And someone who could not devotee, that's implying that it's only elite. A person who goes along will be able to tell right by that whether you're... Yeah. When we're talking about the gods, are there elements of indigenous religions? Yes, yes. And that goes back to the animist quality of it. So in a sense, the gods are very local. So for example, a quick story on that. My friend Sene that I was mentioned before, the one whose temple I was pointing at. When we visited her last time, Sedona was still in London where he was teaching. He got held up because of the volcano in Iceland, if you remember. And she explained that whenever he travels out of Bali, she gets snakes into her house. And the reason the snakes get into the house is because they live in Denpasar, but she is not from Denpasar. She's from another village. So the rituals that she knows and the rituals that she does are for the gods and spirits of her village. And she doesn't know the right rituals for Denpasar. And because she is not performing the right rituals, and because Sedona is not there to perform the right rituals, snakes get in the house. And what she has to do is she goes to the king and invites the king in. The king comes in and does the right rituals, and then there aren't snakes anymore. So the gods are very local, and there very much is a kind of... Again, the question of Hinduism in Bali is very complex, and that's a whole other subject. But there's a law of scholarship to suggest that Hinduism is really a kind of mid... As practice in Bali now is a kind of mid-20th century construction and that it is much more based on pre-Hindu, local gods, and local traditions. Yeah? You might have said this, but I might have missed it. Do these shows travel around to the people, or do the people go to a particular place? They'll go to the temple. They'll go to the temple to see it, but the temple in their village. So the Dalong will go to a village. But the Dalong travels around. Yes, previously the tradition has it that every village would have their own Dalong. He would not be a professional Dalong, but would be a villager who would do this. And now local Dalongs are... Because people are more able to travel more, now it's become more professionalized and they want someone who's more of a professional. I'm just wondering where... I mean, about the script that you tell a story, but generally that's Dalong made up the story or right type of script by itself and where is the source of getting those traditional types of stories? Yeah, good question. The stories come from either the Mahabharata or the Ramayana, typically, and then there are what's referred to as even branch stories, trunk stories or branch stories. Trunk stories are stories that come straight out of the text. So we take this part out of the text and we perform it. Branch stories are ones which branch off from that, which use the characters, but they freely make up stories that you would never find in those epics. And yes, so the part... the Dalong has to, on the one hand, respect the tradition, know the tradition, memorize the kawai, perform the kawai, do it the right way, but also it's very important for a Dalong to be creative and make things up to him or herself. So there is... and also the clowns do not appear in the epics at all. The clowns are purely indigenous. These are clowns from Bali and Java. And the clowns in the Sundanese region of Java are completely different from the Java-dese areas of Java and completely different from the Bali-dese clowns. So it seems as though it's quite possible that they come from an even more ancient tradition. That then, when these Sanskrit epics are coming, are combined into that. Yep. Was the traveling Dalong who goes from temple to temple, does he bring the gamelan with him? Or does he pick up local cats? In some cases, a Dalong will have musicians that he always works with. So in the case of Chenglong, he's very rich. He has his musicians and his backup band that always travels with him. In other cases, you'll get whoever is available. So it might be... there's more in the sense of a pool of people. I had a question about the humor. Is there... because for it to be relatable, it also needs to be contemporary in some ways, like the humor that you have and is that also true of a traditional furniture? Yes. The humor is very topical. It'll have to do with political issues right now. It'll have to do with villages. One of the things that Dalong will do is arrive early in the day and walk around the village and say, what's going on here? What are the issues here? When my friend Zidano was here, if any of you have been here long enough, and you remember Vision Ohio, he knew it, so he incorporated Vision Ohio into his performance of that. Typically, what I would do when I was there is I would arrive early for a performance. I would go and meet the Dalong, and notice they would always want to get my name, and they would always want my name in lighting. And so then in one of the clown scenes, they would always make jokes about this American professor who was here to have the performance. In fact, in one performance, they set a microphone out into the audience of one of the clowns' interviewed names from the stage. So indeed, incorporating into contemporary issues. But it is... and that's where a lot of correction happens as well, kind of commanding. So I would talk to my teacher a lot about the jokes I would use, and is this acceptable? How is this acceptable? For example, there's an obvious reference in there to sports at Ohio University. And I had a long talk with my teacher about how to incorporate that. And he and I discussed it. It was clear that if I were to... So suppose President MacDavis... Okay, suppose President MacDavis were here, and I were to explicitly say, I think we are spending too much money on the football team, too much money on sports at Ohio University. That would be insulting to him. And that would not be a proper thing to do. However, couching it in a different context where the message is clear, but it's couched in a different context is an acceptable thing to do. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.