 They're really interesting. Hey friends. This is Dan Burke behind the scenes Divine intimacy radio was Stephanie Burke and special guest Jerovicious Jordan Burke. That's that's a new one. What was the what was your nickname when you were growing out? What was it? No, no, no, there was something that we used to call him Well, it's something that can't be repeated. His brother called him Juren. No, no, no There was we had acronyms for each one of the kids. Yeah Like we had their their bad side and their good side, you know, you know, I met Maleficent and then Magnificent or right adverse or Before we jump into the show, we're gonna be talking about finding peace in the storm today and And real quick. Yeah, there are a lot of people who complain in the comments about the ads You can skip forward. Just give it a few minutes. Yeah ads are over. You can skip. It'll be okay Yeah, but they're not ads. There are opportunities for you to be holy. So get over it. Yeah What is your problem? Oh Don't give me opportunities to be holy. Yeah. Yeah, like what? We don't advertise like deodorant, right? Advertising opportunities to encounter the living God. Yeah I mean, I'd delete the ads anyway, so but I just wanted to Primitively just get over yourself. That's my or delete the comments. Okay Before we jump into the show, that wasn't very nice with it of me I mean, let's just be honest. I really don't care Filming spiritual warfare and discernment of spirits in Pennsylvania March 6, there's a If you want to be part of that filming We're looking for a hundred people and we're about halfway there and There's an after-party sounds kind of fancy. I think they'll be like hot dogs and coke or something No, no, no, there's an after party. It's a really good one. I don't know considering considering what we do at the summit I'm sure it's pretty fancy. All right. It's a lot of fun, too It is really it's remarkable to get to see there and cameras and yeah, and you get to pretend that I'm I Sound amazing and you know with these look you make pretend faces like oh, that's amazing, you know, that's You get to pray for you. Oh, it's more holy than that. Yes, okay pray for all the souls that are gonna hear Yeah, the end product. Okay. Anyway, come join us because it's a lot of fun. Yeah Com forward slash events. We've been have people flying in from Mars and Venus and all kinds of places around the universe. Yeah speaking of Mars and Venus We just finished up a marriage retreat and it was awesome. It was so many beautiful couples so much The Holy Spirit was just really moving so keep track of our events spiritualdirection.com Forward slash events for our next one, which I believe the next one's gonna be in Rhode Island Yeah, and then one in Trinidad Tobago if you want to go to try if you want to go to the tropics and work on your marriage It'd be like amazing. You know the other reason we do these two to explain to people. Maybe we can just I mean I know but you can explain to folks Advertisement when you first get on, you know, you're you're want people to not miss the beginning of the show and so right some time So okay, so we're good. Yeah. All right. The other thing is I this is so cool You you got to do you got to check this out mystical wisdom of Lord of the Rings taught by no no nothing Nothing other no one other than I don't know neither of those. He is wonderful. Joseph Pierce is a scholar We went on the Camino with him and he gave us lectures on on On this this very topic and we said would you take a class for us? so Lord of the Rings and it's gonna be on Lord of the Rings and how We'll consider just how proud profoundly the Catholic face is woven into this epic story and how it can lift our Minds and hearts to God so we're pretty excited about it and he's a lot of fun to listen to he is yeah He's very nice this guy. We had paella together in Spain. Yeah, and he's been on the show He we did a show with him. What was it Nazi to from skin? From skinhead to scholar skin head to scholar. I think right. Yeah, so Tuesday, February 27th is when it starts so head out to avaladesh Institute org and let's so let's jump into the show just so people relax They can skip they can skip that's fine. All right on your mark Get set go This is Dan Stephanie and Jordan Burke welcome to divine Intimacy radio your radio haven of brass your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven To draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us to navigate this tumult of life Are you guys ready to navigate help people to navigate to find peace in the storm? I am ready to find peace in this. You're ready to but you already found it Didn't you I listen every day. It's a search party Well, hopefully some tastes are better than others Studying this book has had a huge effect on my own a piece and in writing the book and then you know meditating on these these principles is has been a Multiple decade long thing for me. So when you when Jordan, you know shared this book with me I thought well, this is the best one. This is the pinnacle or or at least one that deserves to be Elevated elevated. Yeah, and re-proposed back to the church, which is why I wrote it So today we're in we're reviewing chapter six, which is on spiritual desolation and Just to talk a little bit about why we suffer because some people when they're suffering just sort of turn in on themselves and and Struggle and miss because of that They sort of do the pill bug thing, right? And then they they turn all in on themselves and they miss the sovereign work of God We we just did did a retreat this weekend and one of the things we were talking about was looking up You know, which which really resonated with a lot of people when you're in midst of suffering Don't don't close in look up and ask what is God doing and Alphonsus really reveals the the beautiful Work of God in the midst of suffering that if we say yes to and join with him There's a lot of graces that come you have a thought Well, I'm just thinking for those that may be just joining us or haven't Listen to spiritual warfare and discernment of spirits or or they're not familiar with that just briefly Desolation is the opposite. It's when you're in the opposite of the theological virtues. So the theological virtues are Faith hope and love right and so the opposite of faith is doubt The opposite of hope is despair and the opposite of love is not hate. It's narcissism, right? It's this turning in on ourselves and it's my pain my wants my needs my ego My desires my opinion my my my me, you know or despair to the point of which can really end up in Even suicidal ideation at the at its worst point divorce divorce I really believe that ninety nine point nine percent of divorces are made in a moment of desolation Right, which is the worst time to make any decisions. You should never make any decisions there So anyway, so I just think that's important for a starting point because we're talking about, you know Why does God allow us to suffer and you know, what do we do about it? Yeah? So Alphonsus talks about, you know, our perspective in suffering and How we can how we see suffering at times as punishments and in the sense of like punishment like a Not not like I deserve this punishment for why is God doing what? Yeah, I'm being inflicted upon you Yeah, it's sort of it's a perspective of suffering that is Wait, I don't deserve this like fundamental disposition. I don't deserve this. I didn't earn this. Why am I getting this? Yeah, I'm a decent human being don't kick puppies. I use my turn signal, right? You know, I'm going to church. I'm paying my bills. I'm not defrauding anybody. I'm doing my prayers I'm doing my prayers, you know, at least peripherally, right? Whatever our understanding of that is Why is this happening to me and because we have that well when we have that perspective one Theologically or just more simply we misunderstand Our relationship to God. We misunderstand the gravity of sin and all that So I think one of the things that St. Alphonsus is gonna reveal to us in this chapter, but also in this book and it's also revealed in scripture and sound theology and that is that However harsh this may sound and I don't As I say this, you know, I I can sound kind of mean sometimes But as I say this I say it with a deep sensitivity to people's suffering Because I've been through a lot of suffering myself. So I'm not I'm not condemning anyone but one mortal sin This is the proper context to understand suffering it one mortal sin In terms of properly understanding justice and offense to God and the gravity of sin Wood is sufficient to send you to hell for all of eternity. It's a fundamental you know Giving of the finger to God forgive me for a really crass analogy, but I just want it to be sort of properly It's saying yeah, I know your plan don't care I'm doing my thing and Because of the need for freedom in order to experience love and healing and redemption He allows it. That's the fundamental purpose behind the allow, you know allowing What things that seem to be unjust is because it's necessary for for freedom and love and all and redemption and all that so When we come from the standpoint of one mortal sin is properly Properly punished that way or it's our choice to go to the place where God is not which is why it's so excruciating How many mortal sins have we committed, you know, how many times we said no to God? I mean Stephanie likes to quote that passage in the old time and the Psalms of the just man since seven times a day Is that the one you know so Because to me if I look at that I'm like wow if the just man sin seven times a day, how many times do I sin right? Well, if you if you meditate on the passion I mean we talked about I think last time I'm going through meditations on the passion book and This morning. I was reading about the crown of thorns and what that represented. It's not just mortal sin It's venial sin as well. Yeah, you know each suffering that Jesus went through was a result of our sins venial or mortal Regardless, it still causes harm, right? You know regardless so Seven times a day whether it's mortal or not. It's still pushing that yeah crown of thorns into the school of Christ, right? Yeah, and I think what's important is that our sins You know our life is not about us and our sins don't just affect us We're we're connected because we're all created by God for an eternal relationship with him and to work out our Salvation amongst our brethren, right and so when I sin Even if I'm quote-unquote not harming anybody else and I'm you know closed up in my closet and it's just me It's a lie that that doesn't affect any anybody else because I'm less than who I was called to be right because I don't reach The person who God created me to be so then his light his goodness His grace doesn't shine in and through me to others and I'm literally closing my hand and I'm saying I don't care What you have for me? I don't care the grace that you want to live in and through me. I'm too afraid. I'm too broken I'm too narcissistic. I'm too whatever to say yes to you So I'm just gonna sit with my little one talent and I'm gonna go stand sit in the corner And I'm just gonna wait or bury it. Yeah, or I'm gonna go bury it, right? And I'm gonna wait till you know until I die Yeah, which might be in the next five minutes, you know God forbid because we we hope we have time But if not, you know that I'm gonna stand before you at the end of time and go I was too afraid to accept what you had for me, you know, I was too ashamed. I was too scared I was too whatever. I mean God's Glory God's joy God's Just his his overwhelming love is in us being fully alive Thriving and we just have this very small vision of what that looks like and the suffering is Often the doorway or the stepping stone that gets us to that to healing and to it's necessary And I think to tie it back to what Alphonse is about to talk about the fundamental Problematic aspect of that attitude of while I'm doing my prayers. I'm going to church Why is this being inflicted upon me is this idea for most people is I can I earn? God's love right his gifts and his mercy or I'm merit because I'm being good, right Which is like saying I've never sinned and I'm you know I it's like I'm starting at zero and I merit rather than negative 3462 million right one and puts you in the place of God It's like I'm doing these good things right, but it's really important though to be like cuz I'm I'm I'm prickly this morning To be cautious to say people legitimately suffer Yeah, and go why is God doing for sure? And and we need to weep with those who weep and mourn with those and comfort them But teach and reveal, you know, he's at work here He loves you and this is where Alphonse is gonna take us in this chapter because he says In this matter, too, we should receive whatever whatever crosses God sends us But you reply these sufferings are really punishments. That's that the attitude The answer to that remark is are not the punishment God sent us in this life also graces and benefits are our Fences against God must be atoned for somehow either in this life or the next hence We should all make St. Augustine's prayer our own Lord hear cut hear burn Spare me not but spare me in eternity. I love that prayer. I mean I love that prayer. I mean With trepidation, I love that prayer, right? Let us say with Job Let this be let this be my comfort that afflicting me with sorrow He's spare not having merited hell for our sins. This is what we've been talking about We should be consoled that God chastises us in this life and should stir ourselves To look upon such treatment as a pledge that God wishes to spare us in the next right that we suffer in him with him is a promise of Our redemption and for me like you know for years because of my lungs and all these other things that I deal with Like when is this gonna end and why does this have to you know be this way? But recently and then I think in the last decade I should say recently but because of this kind of wisdom It's like no. Well, no. Yeah It's okay. Whatever I need whatever I need to be purified. Whatever I need to be humbled I have no interest in purgatory at all, right? And if anybody's ever studied purgatory, nobody would ever be interested in going to purgatory, you know hell's worse But you know so give it to me now so that means my health never gets better fine If that means I always have to struggle with this or that fine, but I but like St. Augustine I just want to hear well done and I don't want it that this life is hard enough I'm good with a little harder or a lot harder for the sake of let's when we're done. Let's let's rejoice I don't know what it's important to know too that those crosses are handcrafted for us It's not like God's throwing anything upon us that he does that he knows that what he's giving us is exactly what? A we need and B we can handle through his good father, you know what I mean? So it's not like okay I can't I can't do this you can because God's permitted it because he knows that if you Enter into whatever grace he's trying to get you to then yeah, you're gonna be fine Yeah, we get back from the break I want to talk because you've revealed your when you left the church and You had numbskullitis to the highest degree and all of that and then you came back But I want to talk about what it was like for me as a father And you're suffering because I I think there's a good analogy there, so we'll be right back On your mark it said go Welcome back to divine intimacy radio. This is Dan Stephanie and special guest Jordan Burke talking about Finding peace in the storm reflections on St. Alphonse's Agoury's uniformity with God's will so so at the risk of sounding prideful Which I don't I hope it doesn't sound that way, but they're like when you came back when you fell away You wrecked your marriage, you know, and then you repented and came back to the beautiful glorious thing the one thing Stephanie and I talked about was He we agreed that we wouldn't rescue you From the consequences of what you did Which was very painful to tell you and you know One of the hardest moments is as a dad, I'm president of EWTN news I'm supposed to be in Rome at the time and I and you're driving yourself to a treatment center And if there was ever a moment I wanted to be with you was driving to just at least drive with you to the treatment center You know just to say I love you It's gonna be okay, but I couldn't the Lord took that from me You decided to pay for it on your own, but you know as we talked through we knew That this moment was so seminal for you in your life That if we relieved the pain financial Emotional if we relieved the pain in any substantive way you would miss All the graces that God had you so though I would have driven with you God took that away from me But the other decisions that we made were less you know They're painful, but they're less painful and we didn't help you out financially any of that But we said we love you all is forgiven Anything any way we can help you That is not we didn't say this to you, but we're here for you as well Right. Yeah, and it and let's say you couldn't have paid for the treatment center. Yes We would have stepped in there's no doubt, but you figured out a way We didn't just jump in and say oh, we got to cover it or whatever. Yeah, you know, so I don't know You know, do you see how the it relates? Yeah to God in that? He's a good father and there are times when Which is often he knows we've got to feel the depths of our own depravity We've got to feel the depths of our own sin and brokenness our weakness our nothingness, right? Our inability to fix just really come to the end of ourselves of ourselves So that we will look up and and when you come to the end of yourself when you I mean I've given my Testimony numerous times all over the place and the way I describe it is you know, I wasn't just broken I was ground into dust But God turned that into clay and built me into something new, you know, there's a beauty in that suffering There's a gift in that suffering and it goes to your original point Which is whatever we've been given Despite it hurting despite it being painful in all forms like you said legitimate suffering and you know stuff that we bring upon ourselves like in my case It's still a gift. Yeah, it's still a gift, right, you know, because you needed it for your salvation Yeah, yeah, God's gonna use that without fail What are things we were told the spouses this weekend at divine intimacy and marriage retreat was I have the spouse I have because I need the spouse I have for my salvation. That's right Which is really a powerful liberating reality of oh, okay And and by the way the way they are and how they hurt Is necessary for my salvation now this I'm not talking about abuse and not saying we should stay in abuse and those sorts of things But we're just talking about the normal junk Yeah, uh, the 99% of people that are out there, right, right Yeah, yeah, and I think that's it's important because whatever back to Jordan's point about You know having the crosses that we need God knows exactly what What vices that we need to overcome He also knows what weaknesses need to be strengthened. He he you know, I I liken the virtue the virtues to it's like a Picket fence around the core of our being around our soul and and our spirit, you know So this picket fence is there and the enemy goes around and he's kicking at those picket fences to see which one's loose And when he finds a loose one, he comes in and then he reeks havoc, right? And and in those instances that that havoc has been wreaked and we're suffering a particular trial either of our own making or It's it's you know left over garbage from our past and woundedness or or it's something that we're doing In our woundedness to inflict pain You know on our relationships or in others or you know to crash our business or whatever it is, right? Whatever it is that we're suffering through and where we feel in like we're in a vice grip from the lord and and from circumstance That's the air that whatever that other virtue is is where the invitation is The lord allows it to happen right there because he's saying listen You got to pick it that's loose on your fence That means it's an open door for the for satan to come in And destroy you and hurt you and harm you and take you down And often we experience trials that are like thematic You know, it's like we have the same trial over and over and over and over again And we're going okay wait I should probably pay attention here because this isn't a one-off this keeps happening and i'm not getting relief It's not going away. That's the lord literally knocking on the door going hey I'm trying to get your attention trying to heal you I'm trying to heal you and you need to respond to this and think about what's the opposite virtue What are you asking me to be are you asking me to be magnanimous generous self giving self denying Loving faithful hopeful patient, you know self sacrificing. What are you asking me on the other side of this? Oh, i'm going to go practice that And and then he says yes My son. Yes, my daughter. That's exactly right And then he just like shores us up and pours grace on us and strengthens us And then we walk a little freer and then we go oh I can actually do this right and and not only that he's living in and me in me And he's strengthening me. He's animating me now and he's brought me to a greater reality that I never imagined Possible never, you know all the suffering that dian and I went through at the beginning of our marriage We talked about it with the marriage couples this weekend We would have never dreamed the ministry that would come out of that right, but we made a decision We don't run You know, we we meet each other in those trials in those circumstances. We don't let go We're we're like what's god doing here and and we just kept dying to ourselves a million times and it's uncomfortable is all get out And it's painful But you don't run and you say what is god doing and you you engage in that and say okay I'm gonna cooperate. That's the key and going back to your analogy the picket fence We're too often people stand there and they're like there's a hole in my fence My fence is broken and jesus is standing right next to you saying here's a hammer and nails Right. I'm I can show you how to fix it. Yeah, but we're too stuck on. Yeah, we're too stuck on There's a hole in my fence, you know, which is which is really often just also again to be sensitive people This hurts like hell this hurts. Yeah, this really hurts. This really hurts. Well, okay But let's let's let's figure out what he's doing and cooperate Let's let's let's get his remedy in place And that's the beauty of the suffering in a way because it's not not only is it an opportunity to grace and virtue But it's also an opportunity to enter into the suffering of christ Because you have to choose to act as jesus did in the garden while he's being scourged later on while he's being crucified He was not the entire time. It was outward. He was he was yeah Yeah, forgive them for they don't know what they do loving others That's if we can if we're suffering no matter what that suffering may be If we unite that with the suffering of christ as he was being scourged as he was being crucified It allows us like really enter in it allows us to open up and say, okay, hold on I can't I can't be internal, you know, again, we've said this a hundred times. He wasn't crucified like this You know, he was crucified with his arms out There are two fundamental decisions that are really important to Clarify one is there are people who are not really living fully in the church That was kind of where you were. Yeah, you crashed and burned hard and you had to make a decision I'm coming back and I'm all in so that's one fundamental decision that Some kinds of suffering can lead us to that people need to consider Am I all in for the faith or do I pick and choose? Or do I sort of have this thing of like quit pro quo with god and okay I'll do a little bit of this if you give me a little bit of that Bargaining that's like, you know, you're not all in if that's what you're doing not criticizing just It's important to reveal The second level is what you guys were just talking about us. Okay, now I'm in And I am working on living for him But it's this deeper understanding of how Suffering becomes instead of a tombstone. It becomes a stepping stone Instead of a wall that becomes a doorway that we step through that we step on that we receive And walk into and then we meet him there where he can heal us and take us to freedom Yeah, and to your point, you know, we don't I mean god is sovereign He is god we are not I love what he says to st. Catherine of sienna I am god who is and you are she who is not right that we have to remember that so we can't pick and choose Like you said at the catholic faith and go, I'll I'll do that, but I won't do that You know, I used to live that way and man, it destroyed me like I I talk about how I He took everything away from me in order to give me everything But I wouldn't listen I wouldn't listen So I had to go for me for my salvation. I had to go all the way to the pigs I had to be that prodigal child you had to be that prodigal child And and so we had to lose everything in order to to find the freedom and the goodness and the glory of god So he says one thing here that I want to I want to touch base on Um, he says Leguri when god sends us punishments or chastisements or trials or whatever it is We must say with the high priest. He lie It is the lord. Let him do what is good Let let him do what is good in his sight In time of spiritual desolation is it is also a time for us to be resigned We must persevere. We must be resigned to do as he as he desires When a soul begins to cultivate the spiritual life god usually showers his consolations Upon her to wean her away from the world But when he sees her making solid progress He withdraws his hand to test her and to see if she will lose love and serve him without the reward of sensible consolations So an encouragement and then he'll he'll let us suffer something to see if we will actually follow And it's important to clarify as we close out the show today You do fight desolation We you know nasius teaches that But you're as you fight it. You're resigned to whatever god's will is so it's sort of like jesus in the garden Ham Can this pass from me? I will be done. You have simultaneous actions of the will of resisting desolation, which is Of pushes us away from god and in embracing god's will and saying whatever you will I'm going to be at peace with and that's what brings the piece that passes understanding and really understanding that every storm Runs out of rain, which I always love that. Yeah, but when you say that so okay. All right friends Well, you're this was uh, I think numbered is this number nine? Yeah number nine in the series And if you want to find the other shows you can go out to spiritualdirection.com's youtube page or or spiritualdirection.com website We have a lot of resources out there for you And we hope you take advantage of them there's there's One of the beauties of the abla foundation and all that we're doing Is there's a never ending never ending offering of Ways to go deeper in the faith and you can find those out at spiritualdirection.com abla institute dash institute.org or the apostate va community We are happy to welcome you to any of those sources of the water of life and with that Until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he may he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body Irreproachable at the coming of our lord. Jesus christ. Amen