 Alright, thanks for staying with us. The relevant question is not simply what shall we do tomorrow, but rather what shall we do today in order to gather, in order to get ready for tomorrow. Now, these are quotes for today, and it's by Peter Drucker, the management, consultant, educator, and author. As they say, leadership is a powerful force for social transformation and progress. It is an essential tool for shaping society, and it can be used to promote religious freedom, political stability, scientific discovery, economic growth, and social dynamism. Over the years, Nigeria has been plagued with tremendous social pathological situations, such as economic collapse, poverty, kidnapping, crisis, terrorism, various degrees of violence that can mostly be traced to poor leadership and governance. Nonetheless, we believe that with good governance and wise use of its resources, Nigeria can achieve its full potential and become a beacon of hope for Africa and the world. So tonight, we're asking what the hope for this alienation is, and what is the Nigerian promise. Our guest, Ola Kulashourian, is a mentor and executive coach for leaders across the globe as chief knowledge officer of Kenneth Shourian Research and Ideas LLC. He works to invigorate leaders to embrace what sets them apart in order to maintain personal and professional relevance, and tonight he has joined me live in studio. Very honored to have him here to discuss the promise of hope, and please, you can also join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 0818384663. Thank you so much for having this first ever exclusive with me, Ola Kulashourian. Thank you. As I always call you coach, PK. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. We've not had you in a very long time on this, and it's good to have you on this very special edition. I mean, first of all, a quick background, right? A lot has happened in Nigeria. Come on. From 2020, building up until the elections in 2023, right? What's your overall assessment? Because I remember that we've had several conversations around what will work in Nigeria, and it seems like everything you said kind of resonated with the events that eventually happened, especially during the political seasons where we had the elections and all of that. So generally, sitting down back to say, okay, I said this, how does it make you feel? What's your general assessment of where we are today currently in Nigeria? Yeah. First of all, thank you for ways. Thank you for all that you do. It's just very comforting to know that platforms exist that want to have real conversations, right? So thank you and the whole team at Waze for doing this. So, you know, I believe in Nigeria and I've always seen the brighter side of things because what is easy, the agitation for spotting error is easy. Any fool can spot error, right? But to find what is right is what is missing in most people. Not that it's not there existentially, but essentially people just find it very difficult to find what is right because we are always distracted, probably overwhelmed by the experiences of what is wrong, right? So if you talk to the average Nigerian, you can articulate everything wrong in Nigeria. What is wrong in Nigeria? What is right or what are things go right? It really cannot, and I always tell people, at some point we have to find another type of maturity and ask, what do you want? Do you want to be correct or do you want to progress? But if you want to be correct, you can sit down, take a sheet of paper, take a loud speaker and start saying, PDP is stupid, correct, EPC is mad, correct, you know, NEPA is crazy. You would list all the, you would be right, but how is that going to change anything? So for me, Nigeria is on a strange right path and with our peculiarities and the contents of our history, I think we are in a unique place. During the election for a lot of public commentations that I had, I made it very clear that it doesn't matter to me who is going to be Nigeria's president. I don't care if it's Obie or Attiku or Sinumbu. There's something going on beyond what is happening. All of the drama of the election is what is happening. What is going on transcends whoever is going to be president. What is going on is always parallel to what is happening. What is happening is the energy of gossip, anger, disappointment, feelings. Who's going to play there? But parallel to what is happening, there's always something going on and that is something beyond the obvious. You have to stretch a bit, probably beyond your pain, probably beyond your discomfort or disappointment to really focus and see, to really see and focus on what is going on. And for me, what is going on since 2020 is an incredible awakening of the Nigerian lower middle class, right? Not even the upper middle class because there are very few. We have quite a critical mass in the lower middle class, not even the lower class because the lower class essentially are driven by survival and pain and what you saw in the answers, for example, was the unstructured reaction of the lower middle class, which was later hijacked by the lower middle class, which was later hijacked by the lower class. But the awakening I'm talking about is a commitment to participate. And in this election, you see the participation of the Nigerian lower middle class. And these are young millennials, fresh Gen Zs, and upwardly mobile, engaged, right? And before now, are pathetic about what is going on. They talk about it, but they never participate. But now they are participating. It's not going to be business as usual, whoever becomes president. That was my view during the election. I don't care who becomes that president. It's not going to be business as usual. It will answer questions from the first day of his office to the very last day. Because there's a group that is now asking questions. And it doesn't have to be the right questions. It doesn't even have to be correct. As long as they are just engaging. As long as they are engaging and asking. There's a restlessness that it brings into governance that keeps everybody on their toes, right? And I think that is taking us to a very important place. I don't want to preempt myself. I know you have quite a number of questions. But what I will end this particular survey by saying, you know, there's hope for the nation. Personally, I believe that another one or two years, we're going to see a boom, a major economic boom, similar to that of 1999, right? We'll see some amazing initiatives in a few sectors that will make a lot of difference. Some people will disagree with you on that. Because, I mean, it seems like everything is happening all at the same time, right? And, you know, I've had this argument with people. I mean, one of us here on the show, she's always said that we are actually living a false life. Uti, as you would say it. You know, whether you like it or not, you know, some things have to go. You have to pay more. You have to do a lot more. I mean, there are agitations, right? But that's our reality. People are agitated about the dollar rise. But that's our reality. Because now you're beginning to see that this is exactly what we... So what we're doing was just window dressing, right? That's our reality. But it's just that it's a bit difficult for people to just adjust... And justify the reality. What brings me to my next point that says that, you know, if you look at history of leaders, there was Adolf Hitler at a time, right? There was a Lincoln U. There was a Mandela. There was Lincoln. There was... Was this man Gaddafi, right? There was a leader that was meant for a specific time. In Ghana, there was a Jerry Rollins, right? What's happening, right, with the structure of where we are today in Nigeria? I've always said it, and I think that once we are able to align the right leader to the times that we're in in Nigeria, I think it would really, really make a world of difference. You know? So do you think this current leadership, this new government, is the leadership that we need for this season? Do you think so? I don't. I don't think so. Neither do I mean that this current government is wrong. I believe in every... Practically every decision this government has taken. I really do believe in it. I believe software, they should go. I believe in what is happening with our foreign... With the dollar. I believe in everything that is happening. I think it's too early to judge this government to be failing for we are doing something we've never done before. We're going to have experiences we've never had before. And when you make it move like this, I mean, society was a shock absorber. And it was our opium that allowed us to pretend that we are not where we are. Now that it is gone, of course, the first effect is pain. The first reality. We need time to test some of these things. Personally, I believe everything we balance out. There will be casualties, you know. Whether you do big things, you do things right or wrong. There will always be casualties. Somebody has to be foolish for wisdom to have value. You can't discount that. If there's no evil, there will be no classification for good. If there's no darkness, there will be no reference for light. So all of those things are constants. It's like somebody being shocked that people are poor. I mean, people will be poor. The irrationality of the human condition itself cannot make all of us take intelligent decisions. I mean, some people will take the wrong decision just for taking it, right? So time will balance a lot of things out. But look at the United States of America. As of 1968, as how many years ago? Just 1968 there. America's country is over 300 years old. Over 300 years old. As of 1968, 65, 69, all the way to the 70s, they battled with racism. Less than 60 years. Yes, less than 60 years. That is after existing for over 300 years. Let's be clear. They were still battled with racism. They were killing presidents in America without finding who killed them. Who killed the legua. Who killed Bolaigui. Who killed JFK. Nobody knows till today. As of 1960s, people were being killed without any, you know, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Robert Kennedy. No trace. JF Kennedy. Nobody had answers to these killings. Judges were being bribed. Police chiefs were being bribed. John Gotti, the head of the New York mafia family, was still on the cover of Time magazine. As of 1980 something. I think it was finally arrested somewhere in the late 80s. 1980 something. You still heard the head of the New York mafia family, John Gotti, on the front cover of Time magazine. Time magazine. We had this, what is going on in 19, we had quite, I mean, and this is a nation that is not up to, we are still struggling just many years. That's still yours. This nation, after over 300 years, is so easy to surrender to the smallness of judging your current reality by something superior that you have not taken time, something that appears superior, you have not taken time to study, or to compare your own reality as a third world country to what is happening in western civilization. No more PK. Yes. Shouldn't westernization, right, sorry, globalization, that's the word I'm looking for. Shouldn't that be some level of advantage? So if it took America 300 years to get to where they are today, because of the fact that there is technology, there's globalization, there's a lot of things that has evolved over the years, shouldn't we have a fast-tracked kind of progress? So the question is how do we know we are not having that fast-tracked? We are not 300 years old yet. It's not like we have spent 300 years, we are still not dead. So do we need to wait till we get to 300 years? Can we look back? No, we will not. What I'm saying is we are not in 300 years yet, right? So we can't even say we are not fast-tracked yet. Maybe we'll get it, maybe in 100 years, or 120, or 80, but what is true is that we are still not, we are not even 100 years, right? We are not even 300 years. So we are not saying that because we are saying that it took America this long to do what they have done, we are not saying that we should take that long, but we are emphasizing the fact that time is involved in how things are. And just because America did it in 300 or something years, and we are living in the observing the emergence or the maturity of the American economy, of the British economy, or whatever economy it is, does not mean that we are not growing at our own pace. Don't forget that we also have the burden of mastering something that is not, you know, it is not natural to our people, right? And we want to have these conversations. But as of 1960, as of 1958, when Nigeria and most African countries in the 50s were gaining independence all the way to the 60s, the British government had advised that Nigerian nationalists at that time, particularly the civil service structure and those managing administrations, needed 14 years of tutelage to master administration. That administration is not our way. Now, it's very difficult for us to see that. And when I say it's not our way, I'm not saying our way is primitive. But classroom, for example, is Western. When the white man came here, he took our education and gave us the classroom. It starts to know how we learn. We learn through observation and apprenticeship. We don't guess. We are looking at the real thing and we are learning it right away. We don't put arithmetic progression, we don't put all kinds of subjects you may never need in your life together, building you onto a path, which is not wrong. That's what I will learn. And so, we may never underscore it, but we are still struggling in the classroom at many levels. But I'm going to take our time. And it is what it is. This is where we are, right? The question for me is, what are the change indicators? And for me, I think that, and there's a friend of mine that I talk to a lot, and the conclusion every time about Nigeria is that our secret is in a few places. And I'll tell you where they are. Number one is the Balor system. And not by, I don't mean voting or PVCs. I'm going to tell you what that is. The Balor system, number one. Number two, entrepreneurs. Number three, innovators. And number four, non-profits. None of these guys are politicians. None of these are political parties. When it comes down to it, and you are really interested in nation building, you are going to find out that you need more entrepreneurs and innovators and non-profits than you need a political party. Politicians don't build nations. I've said it time and time again. Politicians did not build America. There's a documentary out there actually that talked about how America was built. And the title is The Men Built America. They didn't say the political party would build it. They didn't say the government officials would build it. The men. These men were innovators. They were entrepreneurs who were bringing ideas that align with the agenda of politicians. And that partnership has to be there. You see? People said that when GSN came to Nigeria, money changed hands. Maybe you are going to take me up on that later. They said money changed hands. I'm coming to that. And they were focused on money changing hands. And I said, can I be honest with you? They said yes. I don't care if money changed hands. It changed our lives. Whatever amount changed hands at that time, can you compare that to what is going on now with the GSN technology? Do you want to look at fintech? Do you want to look at how the average Okada rider can call somebody? Do you know how much money, the impact of that on GDP on per capita income? The impact of that on businesses and all sorts of things. Even on families, people are able to love better. People are able to play better. People are able to live better. Communicate better. Do business better. I mean, if I'm going to come and go see my cousin in Jebel as of 1988. You have to ride later. No. I'm actually going to risk my life. Get into the bus. Get to Jebel to find out that my cousin just left two minutes ago. Two minutes ago. I would have died on the way. Very painful. But with GSN, I could test him right now and he said, I just left home. I'm not at home. And that saved me time, because whatever amount changed hands is nothing compared to where we are. If you take me back there now and you ask me, should I stop that money changing hands? Honestly, that's not my issue. I'm going to focus on the big picture. Can I stop the money from changing hands? If I can, I will. If I can't, I will accept it. I will end the others for the big picture. And that is how we live our lives every day. Take a look at it. Two people get married today. They don't have any mathematics that their children they will be alive in two weeks' time. They have sex. They give back to a child in hope that the child will be there. They will raise the child till he's 40 or 50. They have no mathematics. The child could die to this day. They could die in one week's time. But they went ahead all the same. They took the risk. They took the risk. They didn't allow the potential for danger. They didn't allow the possibility of error to hinder them for what they have to do. That's how we live our lives. You and I are planning things to do next week. We have no mother who will see next week. People's blood are not going to see next week. People's blood are not going to see next week. But we're going to keep making our plans. So in spite of the potential for error or for evil, we have to learn to do what we have to do. Learning to do what we have to do. PK, you brought up the subject of corruption. Let me hit it home well. Let me hit it home well. So recently, there was something around $800 billion being applied for. $500 billion will go to palliatives and all of that just to cushion the effect of the fuel subsidy. And again, there was one particular money that I've been asking. $35 billion going to our judicial council. And some people in some quotas have said that this $35 billion is purely trying so hard to corrupt or rather to bribe the judges. So when I hear you say that if bribery has to happen for the number of things that has happened with the GSM, you can't measure the amount of impact and growth that has come with even if there was money that changed hands. So there's a potential money that we believe that has changed hands right now with the current panel going on in the presidential elections. So what would you say about that? So, are you trying to say that it is okay for money to change hands as long as let me not preempt you. Let me just hear your thoughts on this. You know, I'm a futurist and as a futurist I don't worry about the details. I try to pack around the outcomes. We play all the possibilities and work with the outcomes. Our job is pre-science. It's seen the end from the beginning. That the realities in the middle will not be consistent with how we imagined it but the outcomes will be sure. And like I said to you, you know, this is our reality. And I'm going to make a very fundamental statement. People are going to hit me bad with this but it's okay. I think this election that we had is probably, if not the most credible, it will probably be the most credible in our history as a country. If it's not the most, it will be one of the most. In my view, I think it's the most. And somebody say, what do you mean by that? Because the Americans will disagree. The British will disagree by what they mean by free and fair. I don't mean what they mean. I mean what we mean. When something is free and fair here, it doesn't mean that it is clean. Right? And listen, there's a lot going on in my reality as a Nigerian that if I want to sit down, to really ask myself the question of technicalities about what is right and wrong, about what is fair and unfair, I have a job. Probably we're doing that all day. Right? In my country, I give myself water and my own local government. Right? Now I have a choice. I can sit down and complain about what I'm doing for myself. I don't have electricity. I give myself 24-hour power supply. I have to do that otherwise I'm not going to have it. Is that what I should be doing? No, we should be doing that the government. In July, wait for the government to do that before I can do what I have to do. So I have to do what I have to do. Right? And if you expand that, I live in the United States where I know how to hold the mayor accountable, police officers accountable. I've seen police officers see danger and threat and moving straight into that space. I've seen military men risk their lives, fighting for the United States flag. You don't get that kind of commitment from an Nigerian police officer here. And what is easy is to judge that police officer. But I can't. When that police officer in America dies, I know what accrues to him. I know the insurance that accrues to him. It knows too that if I die, you become what is called a blue star family. There's an arrangement. If you want to be president in the United States and you can articulate your plans for veterans, you can't become president. Right? I've sat in a plane where young officers walk into the plane and everybody is standing up. Giving standing up. Giving up their seats in business class for a soldier to sit for them to take their seats and he will go to the economy and sit up through the flight. So if the Nigerian police officer is malfunctioning, we have to redefine malfunction. What is malfunctioning? Are you saying if you subject the American soldier or the American police officer to the same condition that you subject the Nigerian police officer, the way he's acting right now, he will not. Because there is prison in every country. That means that the pollution is there. There is a jail system. There are judges in every country. People go to jail everywhere. There are psychiatric homes in every country. So that shows that people get it wrong. So given the right pressure, given the right circumstances, even in good people, the potential for evil on the grand scale exists, even in good people, depending on the pressure of their lives. So coming back to what you then say, the election of 2023 had, every election we have had always had incredible growth and incredible improvement. This particular election had the beavers and it had the the IRA. The beavers for me is an interesting reality. Interesting reality because you now cannot inflate figures. Now that has come to stay. That is a victory. If that is the only thing we are taking away from this election, for me I'm satisfied. In this election we take us for that. Now I'm going somewhere. If you ask me, what is the one thing that God shows up to you today and say, I want to do one thing for Nigeria. If I do it, I will not do anything again for Nigeria. I will never do it again. Whatever you say, I will do it for Nigeria. What will you say? You know what I'm going to say? Fix the balance system. You know the reason why politicians misbehave? The reason why the arrogant don't care what they do. It's because at the core they know that it's not votes that make this thing happen. They know that the people are under power. They know that if I mess up you don't necessarily have what it takes to vote me out of power. There are other ways that can happen that will keep me in power. So as we continue to perfect the American balance system is not perfect by the way. I hope you know. Otherwise you won't have the issues that we have. These systems are not perfect. We are trusting that we come to some 80 to 20 percent kind of perfection. Right now I think we are close with these beavers. I'm coming to the beavers that was not uploaded. So that's irate. Let me tell you the victory of the beavers. The victory of the beavers is that you cannot have if 10 people vote in the polling unit you can't have 11 people voting. Once you accredited 10 people you cannot inflate that figure. But there is human factor. There is no human factor. So I have a live example. There was a polling unit that we voted. Governorship presidential Labour Party won the election at presidential. So already at governorship there was a lot of agitation. So there were talks around there and all of that. But at the point of counting for the governorship there was over voting. Over voting. But guess what nobody could even circumvent or even touch that election because I mean people were around ready to draw blood just because so there's the human factor. So it means that even though we used the beavers we used everything to vote. We still had an excess of 100 people that's where they were not even in the record as accredited beavers machine but they had votes. So we had excess votes. So how did that happen? So we didn't have excess votes. We did. So what I mean is that in translating the beavers is data was ignored because the beavers since you have 10 people accredited you can't have 11. The worst you can do the only two ways you can manipulate the beavers one redistributes the number. If 10 people voted, 10 people were accredited 10 people voted maybe 80 people voted for you, 2 voted for me. You can read the human factor rearrange it and say 8 voted for me, 2 voted for you right? But you can't have 11 voters you still have 10. We had that registered. I didn't see that. Well I'm saying to you that I was live on ground voting so it happened but you know what? From what you said, I'm just curious from what you said if 100 people were seen not to be accredited then they were out of their art because the beavers focused on people that were accredited. So when you have somebody with a machete to your neck saying that you must accept that result even though there was over voting what do you do? So let's be clear 10 people have been accredited and they voted 100 people did not were not accredited but they voted What is INEC going to take? What is the result of that? What is INEC supposed to take? Not going to take because they took the result as it was but they were supposed to take the one that was accredited. You know what? Let's go and break the key. It's getting interesting. Alright, thanks for staying with us now if you just tuned in it's always exclusive with Ola Kulesha and we're discussing the promise of hope the Nigerian promise of hope now please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or whatsapp to 081 8038463 we've not even touched on the subject of hope but I want you to quickly wrap up on this corruption issue because it's almost like you are endorsing corruption saying that if we have to get some level of corruption at some point to get to the next level then it is okay. That's what I hear you say. No what I'm saying is that if a violent man brings a gun to me and asks me to give him my shoes I'll give him both my shoes and my shirt because those things that's what he wants there's more promise in me than my shoes and my shirts and so if I lose my shirt and my shoe to gain my life and do bigger things I can live without loss so what you are saying inevitably let us conclude it with these current elections that if we have been put to at the point where we are tight in the corner and they say accept the result as it stands what you're saying is that Nigerians should focus and accept that result and move on look they can fight whatever they want to fight they can like actually at the beginning the election for me is not an issue there is a Nigerian reality that transcends whoever wins that election so I don't care about that and I say that with due respect so whoever wants to fight should fight they should stay in court as long as they want they should get the result if Obie is going to become the president doesn't bother me I have my views about his strength and his income weaknesses Mr Chinumbu is the president I have my views about his strength and his weaknesses so all of that does not bother me what I'm saying is that whether we like it or not there will always be things wrong and in a flawed environment as we found ourselves battling and struggling with all that we are struggling with another type of intentionality must exist within us that transcends the limits of all that we have seen for over 60 years rigging is not me all the problems we see are not me I'm no longer inspired by the articulation of all these problems we want solutions way forward that way forward will not be away from the problems it will be up in spite of these problems so that's why you said from the beginning that are we interested in being correct or we are interested in progressing I love that so let's go back to what you had because we are talking of the subject of hope what is this hope that we are looking for in Nigeria and you said four things that are major to the change of any system and you mentioned the ballot system you said entrepreneurs I strongly believe in what you have pointed out innovators and non-profit presently in Nigeria I see a lot of work happening in the non-profit space I have not seen so much in the innovators except the fintech guys that are really doing so many grand things bringing up so many innovations but entrepreneurs are struggling especially with the current realities of what is going on with our economy entrepreneurs are suffering so if you say you truly want to I mean you strongly believe that these are the four pillars that would change the cause of our nation and truly birth this great nation and the ailments or whatever sickness that we are suffering from cure it how would it happen I picked them one by one the ballot system you saw and that's participation so what happened in the last election people had to really politicians had to really come out and do something extraordinary whatever that extraordinary thing was whether it was voter suppression whatever it was or more thinking whatever it was the reality was that this is not business as usual that became clear this is not business as usual and the ballot system and the candidates into your kitchen they will come into your house they will almost come for you because they know that vote counts and vote recount and I think that in another three or four elections and persuaded that we will have an 80% kind of perfected ballot system and that would be a game changer the moment politicians get it that votes really count and that people will vote everything will change because you know whatever you have four years they will vote you out in another four years what has happened currently do you think we can sustain the tempo with the ballot system it's just going to get better and better I'm not saying that's going to happen in the next election that's why I said maybe another two or three elections between two, three, four elections we are going to see a ballot system perfected by 80% and that would be enough and I really believe in that and that would be a major game changer for Nigeria we are getting there we saw a part of that in the last election we are going to see more then entrepreneurship I would pick enterprise and innovation together because they go hand in hand the problems created the solutions created by the innovators have to be sold by entrepreneurs and at times that doesn't mean there are two different people some entrepreneurs are innovators some innovators are entrepreneurs but if you look at the United States look at the biggest nations in the world particularly in the United States which is important that is the largest economy in the world that is the most prosperous economy in the world is the enterprise some will argue with you that China is coming or I can talk to you about China China cannot take over and that is a symposium discussion China cannot take over China is dealing with infinite pessimism China has a low self esteem that is struggling with expand that look at the superpowers of history call it the British Empire call it the Roman Empire some soft powers must be in place you can be a prosperous nation you can be a powerful nation but to be this superpower and run the world there are soft powers that will be at play one, your food will scale your culture will scale your fashion will scale we eat salad is the legacy of the Greek Empire pizza, macaroni is the legacy of the Roman Empire tea, soot is the legacy of the Roman Empire when you expand that you see that superpowers will do two things in history there is the Ottoman Empire or the Babylonian Empire one is their own culture will go to the world we even speak their language we spoke Latin because of the Roman Empire we spoke English because of the British Empire so their language will go to the world their culture will go to the world and they will come to them they will take everything look at America today every enemy nation of America has Americans living in America they are Iraqi Americans Iranian Americans, Russian Americans Chinese Americans some of them in American government Chinese men in American government so there must be a maturity in you an advancement in you that allows you to blend diversity and welcome everybody even Nigeria is doing better food is scaling, music is scaling very fast a movie is scaling with the right people in some key areas before you know what is happening you will be stunned what Nigeria will become because we already have all the soft powers in play they are in play already and China doesn't have any of those in play language is not scaling it is not allowing anybody to come into China to spread anything the culture of the world is not coming into China they are blocking it they are preserving their own culture so they are not allowing that blend China will be in my view a highly prosperous nation whether it will be this superpower in the world is imposing on discussion so quickly because I digress you a bit entrepreneur and innovation so you look at the Americans and how ideas were created by innovators and entrepreneurs then the position those ideas in such a way that it aligns with the agenda interests, nuances whims and caprices of politicians you have to find that partnership you can't hate politicians you have to find collaboration they say when the going gets tough the tough gets going it is not true that is assuming he knows his way when the going gets tough the tough cannot keep going because it can get lost the top six collaboration is onto collaboration we must turn and once you are talking collaboration two different paths in two different environment they must be compromised to have balance of power so that balance of power is compromised so I look at the best of what I have and I think of how does it work for you and then you look at the best of what you have does it work for me at the point I have shifted ground a bit that is going to work what is lobbying the united states really what is lobbying by the time you dismantle it you will struggle to separate it from bribery you are going to struggle to make that separation right so we have to mature to begin to define our narratives well so let's not see politicians as the enemy but let's find ways to collaborate with them to create ideas innovatively and partner with them for those ideas to grow that is how nations grow anyway that is how nations grow it is the private sector that will transform the nation let's look at it this way you have a basket of raw eggs every four years you go to that basket to pick four eggs to represent that basket in the fry pan you bring the eggs to the fry pan they are rotting eggs what kind of eggs is it bad eggs they can't even represent us well four years after you went to the basket pick another four you have angry, livid, mad they were all rotting eggs you came back to another four years and for 60 years you have been going to this basket to pick raw eggs break them into the fry pan and they are all rotting eggs for 60 years they say it is to keep doing the same way 60 years is long enough to now ask maybe this basket itself is a basket of rotting eggs because is it a coincidence for 60 years that every egg we have taken from this basket to represent us in the fry pan have been rotting Nigerian leadership is not outsourced neither is it imported it is from amongst Nigerians so at the end of the day our solution cannot be with the leaders because the leaders are from Nigerians so we have to live in a different way in our own reality and it is a model that has worked everywhere we need entrepreneurs to rise there is an over dependence on government here government does not solve the problems of government government is overwhelmed they can't solve this problem and they by themselves in their own ignorance on many levels and I don't mean this government I mean all government, including this government governments just believe that the solution government should get busy collecting tax reinventing its tax collection system gets really great in not encapsulating everything and making laws and enforcing laws should allow entrepreneurs to do business and every business I studied in a hotel in Abuja I was studying somewhere and I said look at this this hotel has been here for years it is working why is it working because it is profit maximization people want to make money and they are responsible accountable to a board people will insist on standards people want to make money we should privatize everything in my view a real government should not be doing business it should be making laws enforcing laws and be collecting tax just when I thought we had time non-profit quickly and I am going to tell you where the engine of this thing is which is the diaspora quickly we have 1 minute 2 minutes so you have non-profits and I am not talking about feeding people welfare economics for example if we take recycling we need about 26 different non-profits agitating for recycling if we pick safety maybe 35 different non-profits agitating for safety in Nigeria we need non-profits who represent our problems beyond welfare economics welfare economics is weak food, rent, clothing that is just losing in your chains you are still asleep but if you expand that we look at the diaspora because whether you call it the FinTech you say Florida Way or Paystack, all of these companies these are monies coming from abroad except that these monies are not coming from us, it's coming from Americans today it's Americans who still own these companies that is the game we need to change I don't have the time to break that down but over 40 billion dollars come to this continent every year from remittances over 40 billion dollars of this 40 billion dollars everybody sending money home from abroad is sending less than 5% of their income you and I know that 95% is still sitting dog in their host country and when this money comes to Africa 50 billion dollars is coming to parents food school fees here and there so it's coming to do clothing rents the reality is if we convince the man in America to take another 10% and send it home but this time it's not sending home for welfare but for development to come and chase ideas to fund ideas so we are now creating our own money to chase our own ideas so that partnership has to happen and we look at it the diaspora has been the salvation of nations whether you call it Israel or you call it the United States or you call it the United Kingdom we don't have time to break all of that down but that is where I think the future is and we will get there we will get there so you know what because this is a special edition you will think you have time with PK but thank you so much this has been an amazing conversation we have a part two for this because again it's not just about talking it's about driving the right conversations for us and you know very few things that I have picked I will go back even to my own drawing board because I know that the approach that some of us have gone with especially with this new government is fights you know we are here to so I think let's restrategize and restructure that but thank you so much PK and thank you for being my very first guest on the Exclusive Waste Show now before we go and show you follow us across all social media handles at Waste Show Africa we can interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow like, share, invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation if you missed our quote for today here it is again the relevant question is not simply what shall we do tomorrow but rather what shall we do today in order to get ready for our tomorrow everything requires planning everything requires strategy and I think if you had listened to Ola Konnichiwara you would have learnt one or two things that we need to start doing to strategically change the course of our nation I like the idea of soft power we truly have it, we truly have it especially in the music industry we'll see you guys tomorrow we'll go back to our regular program as we bring another great conversation to your screen enjoy