 Welcome to ABP Network Presents, Brand Transformation in the Digital Age, a special webinar brought to you by ABP Network in association with Exchange for Media Group. I just wanna put a little bit of context before we start this lovely conversation. As we know, the legacy constructs of visual and verbal expressions of a brand need to be refreshed in today's digital context, where digital is changing what a brand looks and sounds like, as we have all seen. Today's increasingly digital world demands new ways to build and manage brands and nobody can deny this. The next wave of growth in fact for brands looks very different in a world where a brand is experienced through platforms and ecosystems other than their own, where touchpoints and channels multiply daily, where interfaces become invisible, where machines are increasingly responsible for deciding preference. And to talk about all this and more, I have an expert panel with me to introduce my speakers today. I want to welcome Mr. Jacob Ben, co-founder and CEO Saffron. Welcome Mr. Ben Bhuvnan to this discussion. Mr. Pawan Saab, Group CMO. I chair and chief, 82.5 communications, Ogilvy Group. Mr. Tushar Vyas, President Growth and Transformation, South India Group M. Mr. Rohit Ori, Group Chairman and CEO, FCB India. Thank you gentlemen for taking time and joining today on this panel. I want to go to Ben first. My first question is to you, sir. My question is that why and when is brand transformation necessary in your view? Brands need to reflect the reality of an organization. Of an institution, of a place. Brands get transformed or evolved as always as a consequence of an element of change. Change is the driving force in brand transformation. And change can be because the strategy of the organization decides to launch a new service of business, i.e., a creation of a new business, or it has to adapt to new circumstances or it has to be transformed profoundly given the context. At the end of the day, one has to interpret, one has to understand that brand is not an end. Brand is a means to an end. And brand works as a tool and that tool is used when change happens. So the answer, I mean, a quick answer to your question is when change happens, brands need adapt to you. Right. Mr. Sardar, to you, the same question a little bit differently. I mean, you've dealt and you have been part of all the big brands. Tell me, when does a brand need to look at transformation? And is it a regular phenomenon? Like we need to redefine ourselves every, say, three years, four years, and today's digital, the page we have at the end of the feed. How do you look at this transformation conversation? Yeah, hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I hope everyone is able to hear me. I have a bit of a bad network, but my apologies. We can hear you. We can hear you. Okay. So I think, yeah, I mean, if you look at some of our brand has kind of transformed over 20 years. Even if I go back to a brand like a Big Bazaar and FBB, I think a large part of our transformation has come from what's happening in the country, like what's the mood of the country, what we are going through, what is customers or consumers expect us to change? I think we have literally adapted that as a big point from listening to consumer and really adapting ourselves. So if I have to give you a parallel, let's look at Big Bazaar as a brand. When we started, I think we were absolutely no frill brand so much so that when we were designing our store, we were very conscious of the fact that it's a quota store, for example, there has to be absolutely no frill. But if you look at over the years, our country was sort of transforming. I think our public spaces were changing. If you look at our airports, they were the first social space which was kind of going through our transformation. So it's very important for us as a brand to even transform as consumers are transforming, as countries transforming. So we have taken a lot of cues from there and we have, the brand has transformed itself so much so that we created new Big Bazaar concept which is called Big Bazaar Gen X. It really comes from that journey of seeing what's happening in consumers life and therefore adapting and changing. So I think that's the journey which we have taken and a lot of inspiration have actually come from India per se, what's happening in the country. I mean, that's been a core focus of ours in terms of adapting and changing. So now if I just speak from a digital world, as you all know that COVID has really changed, many things for many people, even including our own brand. So I think, I've said this in many forums but I'm gonna highlight it again, the fact that OmniChannel was just a word for us but today it's reality. You have to adapt it. You have to be part of that world. So I think I kind of feel that brands transformation is as much as a human transformation which we all go through and it needs that on an ongoing basis. That's my take. Right. Mr. Vyas, I wanna come to you before I go to Mr. Chattopadhyay and Mr. Ori for a different perspective. Tell me, what do you advise brands when it comes to reinventing, reimagining themselves? I mean, how do you look at it? What do you tell brands to do and how often do you tell them to do this? Yeah, hi, Iroel. And it's a, in my mind, it's a more of a continuous evolution process, right? And if you are not doing that, then you might have to take a knee-jerk reaction which might be periodic. But if you had to sum up the previous two speakers, I would say it's a fight for relevance. So how do I ensure that my brand is relevant to consumer? And if you go to the classical definition of brand, it exists in a consumer mind. And if it's consumers evolving, the space you need to occupy in your consumer's mind also need to evolve and move with the time. But it's something which is continuous process. Your brand experiences you set up has to meet with the sort of consumer expectation and consumer experience need which is changing with time. So that would be my recommendations is more of a reading consumer signal, putting it at a center and sort of wrapping your sort of brand and making it continuously relevant. Having said that it looks simpler in theory, but it's a damn difficult sometimes when you start looking from a sort of brand owner's lens and then doing it at a scale. Right, right. Mr. Ori, I wanna start with you this that when brands look at definitely, when they want to transform and there's a certain visual and verbal expression that has to carry forth. So from a creative perspective, this question will also be answered by Mr. Chatapadhyay. What can brands do to maintain that consistency and does it kind of make a disconnect? Is there a fair of disconnect also from customers if you completely go for a visual change and a verbal expression change of brands? So the interesting thing is and that's what I think you repeated that a couple of times is how often should one do brand transformation? To put it very simply, what is brand transformation? Brand transformation is transforming how people feel and see and experience your brand, right? So if you're actually changing and transforming that, how organizations think about their brands, how consumers see, feel and perceive their brands. So those are the important pieces. And the interesting thing is that oftentimes in today's world, every change does not need to result in a brand transformation, right? So what we have to really understand is what changes are really impacting the environment in which the brand operates in, right? So and to answer your question specifically, I think the important piece in this is and at FCB we look at brands as trees. And what we say is that, imagine a tree which has deep roots, right? And a lot of foliage and branches. So with the seasons and with new environment and new seasons, the foliage changes, the leaves may fall, new leaves come, et cetera. But to understand what the brand's roots are is perhaps the most important thing in brand transformation because very often you cut the roots which are the deepest and like Tushar was talking about brands exist in the minds and hearts of people. And very often if you uproot it from the root, it's a new brand and people feel that, this is not the brand that I knew, this is not the brand that I've known for so many years. So the trick is really about knowing what to retain and what to change, right? That is I think the key and the most important thing in brand transformation, especially when it comes to the consumer face. Right, from again a creative perspective, how do you look at this conversation of brand transformation and from a creative side, is it needed? I mean, how do you maintain that consistency also? I mean, if a brand undergoes a change? So I think that there are two aspects, right? One is that I think along the lines of what Rohit was saying that there has to be a strong root or I would say a well-defined brand purpose which should become your touchstone for deciding what steps you could take and what the brand can stand for. And but the brand has to keep changing because the environment is changing. It's about changing consistently with the purpose or the vision of your brand. So what I would say about the present day scenario is that, I mean, in terms of marketing and advertising, I would call the pandemic the great accelerator because I think changes which would normally have taken place over a few generations have taken place over a few months. So I think this whole digital explosion which had already started in India, for example, has just been accelerated. People, the late adopters have been forced to adopt it very fast. So I think that for a brand, it's absolutely important to be able to, I mean, earlier on, we used to create a brand book. There was this brand guidelines book and it told you, this is how you can put the logo in the TV commercial and on the hoarding. But today, I think you need an entire operating system or a dashboard because when you go into digital, digital itself is not a monolith. There are so many different aspects to it. One interesting thing that I've observed is that, I remember when, for example, there was an agency that came up some years ago saying that we are going to be all about the Mogo, which is the musical logo. And I thought, why do you need an entire company to do that because we do it as a matter of course. But in the digital age that has taken center stage in a way because when you're ordering something on Alexa or you've got an app, is that notification sound is the thing that represents the brand a lot of times for you? So yeah, so I think that, as you said, consistency is key. I've just been, I'm in the thick of a brand transformation exercise for ABP, which is one of the brands that I work on. And there were six channels and an app and they have strong roots and they have a strong sense of purpose, which is about creating or helping create open and informed societies and giving the consumer a sense that their life can be limitless and at the macro level to say that, we will stand for progress for India at a limitless level. Now, when they have a legacy of six different channels across the country in different regional languages and now an app, which a lot of people only know it by the app. But at the same time, how do you maintain consistency when, for example, as a Bengali in Mumbai, I may be watching ABP Anunda sometimes, sometimes ABP news and I may even catch a glimpse of ABP Mazhar and I may have the ABP live app on my phone. So the visual identity has to be consistent. What it stands for has to be consistent. The audio, the sonic identity, which I talked about earlier, has to be consistent. So I think these things are really important. And as I said, if you have a touchstone of this is the purpose of my brand, I think that helps you decide each of these things and what is the right step or what is the right way for you to take the step that you need to step to keep in step with the times? Right. Well, Anson and I do agree that, I mean, it's been often repeated, Chief Digital Officer and Chief Peerty Officer is the COVID now. Yes, absolutely. Mr. Benbunan, so there are approaches to transform a brand and we have seen there are certain, there's a playbook at work and there are some new approaches as well. So what would be the best way of brand transformation? Is there a step by step that this is what you need to do in today's context? What is the best approach suited for brand transformation in your view? Well, the metaphor of using the tree as a brand, I think it's a beautiful one and a very relevant one. And any brand needs to start from a purpose. I think as the webinar goes on, we're gonna start repeating ourselves because we all very much aligned in what are the fundamentals of brand. And the purpose, in order to develop the purpose, you need to understand very well the organization, you need to understand very well the brand, you need to understand very well the different audiences. And I think it's a very important audiences that we haven't discussed yet, which is the internal audience. Brands do not only live in the minds and hearts of our customers, but they also live in the minds and hearts of our employees. And the moment when we need to attract new talent, it's very, very important that the value proposition and the employee value proposition needs to be tackled and very much aligned with the purpose of the brand. Once you have the purpose aligned, then you have to understand not only what is the vision of the organization, but also whether the organization is relevant to the different stakeholders it has. And you have to find and identify and actually listen to those different stakeholders. You can start to draw the different elements, different attributes that actually shape the fundamentals of the brand. Visually, the whole exercise comes obviously afterwards, but visually it is fundamental that the strategy is aligned with whatever design gets implemented. At the end of the day, the brand is a promise of an experience and this experience is not only felt through the eye, but also through the touch, also through the sound, et cetera. I think it's fundamental that one understand that a brand gets built through the experience and the experience not only includes graphic design, but many other elements where you leave and feel that brand. Right. It starts with the purpose of civility. Right. Mrs. Sardar, tell me what do you think are the best approaches to brand transformation? What is what that people need to follow to make sure that the brand transformation is lasting and impactful the way it is thought out to be? So I kind of agree what Mr. Jacob just mentioned. I think when there is a transformation which happens for a brand, I think internal stakeholder is extremely important. Right. So many a times I think a brand has a vision. It wants to take a certain shape. It wants to move in a certain direction as I think all of them spoke in terms of really transforming as per the consumer demand and so on. But I think this internal stakeholders as is equally important because if they don't believe in what's the next step for the brand and if they don't live that or if they don't create that experience, I think it'll just be a design element. Right. At least we are in a service brand. Right. For us it's extremely important. So typically what we have done is whenever we have kind of taken these steps of transforming the brand as per the need and want of the consumer or what's happening in the country as I mentioned. So I think the one big part is actually to create that belief internally which is what I think we have always done it. There are times where we have kind of gone back and literally given the perspective of where do we come from? And so that we all are aligned and we all are sharing the same experience. So I'm gonna touch upon, I think that's a great point which was mentioned by Mr. Jacob. So I kind of totally agree with that. And of course, and because we are a service brand, whatever happens for the customer, you have to live by it as Bible. Like you have to literally create those promises and deliver it in all the touch points. Today I think the touch points could be immense. For us the touch point is just not the store. I think there are digital touch points. There are many touch points where the brand is always interacting with the consumer and how are we being consistent there? I think these are the two big parts internal as well as external to me. I think both of them need to create that belief system so that we are finally able to address the required experience to our customer. I mean, I think that's what we have done in the past and most of the time. Mr. Vyas, you have been part of many brand transformation stories. Take us through that. How do you hand hold brands during this process and what approaches do you follow and advise them? Let me slightly broad-based this discussion. We are talking in a context of digital and if we go down to what has changed in terms of consumer and if you put a consumer at a center and branding something which is in a way closely linked to the way the consumer is moving, then broadly there are four things which is changing. One is in terms of how you are understanding the consumer in a digital world. So basically the insight is moved from an entire sample-based environment to sensors-based environment. Brand never had so much of data point to understand consumers and the various dimension and the depth of data which is available is un-precedental. So that's the one dimensional which is changed. And one can basically move from a sample to sensors environment and that's the shift which has happened. Second which is a change which is happening is an entire approach to communication. And this is again digitalized unlock. So more and more you see a full funnel up in terms of communication. So it's the entire area has moved to reach to relationship and then entire spectrum you are operating and at various stages of that. And you are either pinpointing or measuring across the funnel where your sort of communication working where your inputs are working. So that is the second change in my mind which is changing. Third is the content and communication. So one of the big change and I'm just talking slightly at maybe a 30,000 feet but from a brand created to it moved to brand created and brand curated environment. So you're operating and spreading across both the environment. So that's a broadly third change digitalized everyone. And fourth is basically the way you look at success metric. And again, the organization's patience level also changed in last few quarters. So it become more and more outcome and business focus. So brands are not happy with looking at in a way milestone. They're asking for the results, right? So you are not happy if you go and tell them I've reached a two million people but the questions are so what? What is done to my brand? What is done to my business? And that's the level of accountability which has been sort of lost and decision are made based on those kinds of parameters. So I would say these are the sort of four key changes which has happened in terms of the way marketers have started looking at consumer and that has implication in terms of how many of the decision may be made on the downside. Right. Mr. Ori, I mean, Mr. Vyas has touched upon and given us this view of that digital inputs, being part of this conversation when you're talking about brand transformation from a creative perspective, how do you look at the process of transformation? What are the new approaches that you follow and how much does these digital multiple touch points help the creative agency to look at transformation? So, you know, the purpose of digital transformation is not really to become more digital. You know, it is really to use technology with the aim of accelerating growth or connecting or creating new relevance with consumers. So that is really at the heart of digital transformation. So when you look at your consumers and I think, you know, I heard a lot about the internal audiences as well, and I think they're extremely important, but the direction of the transformation is guided by consumers, right? The people who transform, you know, the brand's bottom line, right? So, and the organization's bottom line, that is important. People who buy the product, that is important because, you know, they guide what is the need for transformation. And I think, you know, in today's day and age, I think the biggest thing is to use disruption as a force of good, you know? And a lot of people look at disruption as, you know, a cause for just survival. Whereas what we're saying is that, you know, look at disruption as the cause for transformation and regeneration, reinvention. You know, it's like when there's a storm in the sea, the fishermen don't take out their boats into the sea. They fish, they fix their nets, right? So the whole thing is really about fixing what is the future direction of the brand and understanding that and seeing what is, you know, important and what is not important. Because I think what COVID has really taught us is to understand what is simply not important anymore, right? And how do you focus on what is important? The last piece of your was really about the touch points, right? So, you know, I just want to be a contrarian and I know Pavan talked about touch points with a lot of passion. You know, the way we look at it is touch points is a very outside in way of looking at, and it's very conventional way of looking at, you know, finding points of connection between brand and consumer. The way we look at it is actually to make it more customer centric. So it is customer out. And the interesting thing is actually we are dictated by consumers. So, for instance, if I give you a simple example of, you know, wanting to paint your home, right? So when you want to paint your home, the first bit is the whole thing about excitement and feeling that, you know, I'm going to do some major transformation here and then you actually do a lot of, you know, fact-finding and, you know, due diligence and then there's a lot of confusion and then, you know, figure out the cost, maybe you're feeling sad that, you know, my God, I can't afford this. And then you finally find a way to do it and then there's, you know, that whole pride. So there are many emotions. There's an emotional graph that follows the path to purchase, right? So what we do is you actually look at and understand what is the emotional graph that consumers are going through and figuring out what is the best time to actually talk to the consumer. So, you know, and what is, what particular message needs to go there? So what is the message when he's confused is very different from what is a message when he's excited and what is a message when he wants to show off, right? So that continuum of understanding the, what we call in our new tool of people and patterns and patterns of emotion to really understand in this context. So it kind of takes it away from being digital touchpoints or offline touchpoints or what have you. It's really about finding how to influence that and write that emotional wave of consumers and products. Right. Mr. Chathapadhyay, you did talk about, you know, that there used to be an era of brand book, you know, having that kind of a black book, you know? But tell me, how have the approaches changed? What, how relevant are legacy approaches to brand transformation at creative agencies still? Are there still those approaches at work? I think that, you know, we have many Indias. It's not this one. I mean, there's one section of India that is, you know, a corporate India which is still, you know, resisting this move to digital and keeping up with the changes and they want to go about things in the traditional way. So, I mean, it's not that we don't, we still do create brand books for some of our brands, but I think that for the brands that really are more sensitive to where things are going, are headed and where things have already moved, it's, it's a, I think the approach has to be obviously in keeping with what is going on around us. Just to give you an example, in COVID times, I mean, we all know that restaurants have and hotels have suffered a lot, but I'm saying if you look at it from a consumer's perspective, his or her criteria for evaluating which restaurant they're going to go to eat at was basic, based on, you know, what is the kind of cuisine they have or what is the quality of food. Today, the primary sort of criterion will be safety, health, safety and hygiene. So I'm saying that for that restaurant, I mean, they may still keep the heart of whatever the cuisine or the culture that they represent and that story intact, but onto that, they have to add this layer of safety and health to appeal to the consumer today. So I think that there has to be this flexibility. The other thing is that, you know, when, for example, when brands have moved into social media, you cannot apply the, I think earlier on, it was very rigid in terms of what is the kind of communication and storytelling you could do. It had to be a certain way. Whereas if we, once a brand is in social media and there's this nonstop marketing that's going on in nonstop communication, you have to be more flexible and you have to react a lot more to what's going on, what happened that hour in the life of the consumer or in the life of the country. So I think that that flexibility always on kind of approach is what we're looking at now. And I think rather than a book with rigid guidelines, what we look at today is what is the, what are the criteria we're going to follow to respond to brand messaging requirements in a particular medium within digital. So it's more the approach that we're going to take rather than exactly defining this is how we're going to say it. Right. Mr. Benvenan, there's another context to this that digital disruption, the way we are seeing it, you know, I mean, the way it is disrupting other kind of forcing brands to reimagine themselves and, you know, something led by data, algorithms and a new context at play. Tell me how has digital forced the rise of digital force brands to rethink, refresh themselves? Is digital responsible to a large extent for this change? Digital is a reality and we all live in the reality of digital technology has allowed us to do so many things. One of them is to experience our brands in through a different platform, which happens not to be physical, but to be digital. Brands have taken, those that have that are not digitally native have taken a toll and have tried very hard to really offer the same experience be it physically or digitally. What's really, really, really important that in my view one needs to understand is one cannot fall into the, what I call the dictatorship of the digital realm. If one looks at the way brands live now in the digital environment, there's a sea of sameness. Every brand tends to develop its user experience and user interface in such a similar way that at the end of the day, you can't really differentiate between one brand and the other. What UX and UI designers and coders and agencies aim for tend to be how do I make the experience as close as possible to click and buy. And that has an impact in the way we actually leave the brand. Has an impact in the way the soul of a brand is experienced. And I think it's very, very important even for those brands that are exclusively digital that when the moment comes to be physical, take Amazon and there's a moment in time where Amazon becomes physical because we touch Amazon when the parcel comes to our home. It is fundamental that the soul of this brand gets to us in a particular way. I'm not talking in particular about Amazon, but any brand that lives in people, but then you experience in physical, take Airbnb, take many brands. I think it is fundamental that we come to terms with this awful sea of sameness that the digital wave is taking neighbor brand too. And I think it's fundamental that transformation that has been inevitable because of technology and the digital medium is a fundamental one for all of us does not come at the cost of losing your soul. Right, right. But Sardar, tell me what does brand building look in this new ecosystem where digital is the main narrative? Yeah, I think, see, I think all of us we spoke of the fundamentals of brands will not change. I think that's always, it's about brand being and humanizing of brand. So now as far as digital is concerned, I think Sumanto already touched upon it. So I'm gonna elaborate. I feel there are two things which is bringing a huge change for the brand. I think brands traditionally were built in terms of creating or they were more about creating monologue with the customers. I think that's changed. I think you need to have dialogue with your customers. And I think that's how you need to create your brand. So the brand is as much as always on from all perspective and I think that's what a consumer is expecting today. I mean, it puts out something, it expects you to respond and you literally need to be a brand which does a constant dialogue with the customers. It's no longer the days where one needs to call up the call center and get through the brand and talk about, I mean, today I think there are so many things which is open up there. So I think that's a big shift. I won't call it change, but that's a big shift from being a monologue brand to a dialogue brand. I think that's a must, that's a given. I think that's number one. Number two, I think digital also has brought in a lot of opportunities for us as marketeers if you look at it. So if you look at earlier as a marketeer, there was more or less like a Hindu calendar one used to follow and therefore festivities, Diwali is important and end of the year Christmas is important to generate business. But I think that's completely changed today. I think what digital has brought in is moments and opportunities. Now it's up to us as marketeers, what do we want to do with moments? Like how do you want to turn that moment into an opportunity? That's totally up to us, but those moments can be created literally on a daily basis. And I think some of the brands are doing it amazingly well if I talk about brands like Zomato or Swiggy and so on and so forth. So I think that's a big shift which has happened which we all as marketeers, we need to adapt. But yeah, I think, but this is for me is a very, very interesting time where every moment can be turned into opportunity and you can add to your business. That's how I see it. Right. Mr. Vyas, when it comes to a brand which is not digital first going and thinking about digital because the surroundings have become digital and the conversations are led by digital, what factors do you think kind of impact brand transformation in such cases? I'm going to build on what sort of power is mentioned, right? So it's a, I think the experience is sort of central to the entire narrative and there's the various dimension to that. And if you look at in that environment eventually brand need to find the consumer, right? And so how are you going to do it? Identifying relevant consumer within the digital environment, sort of building right in a way experiences within that environment. How do you communicate? And it goes all the way down to what Pawan was mentioning, right? So how is your brand appearing in my feed? When Zomato talks to me, is it something relatable to me? So that entire humanized way of sort of connecting is also very, very important. The second piece is basically in a way building a path of a list friction. So again, we sort of classically we talk about the various stages of cycle. But how do I create a consumer journey which is a path of almost digital resistance? And then I'm very welcoming to sort of consumer in my world. So that's the second piece I would say. And third is, you know, we don't think offline, online as a two different world, but well think as a sort of hybrid environment, right? Because Kanjumar is not thinking and differentiating that clearly. It's the one journey, right? And you're experiencing the brand in different environments. So how do we start thinking Kanjumar journey first? How do we start thinking in terms of omnichannel or a hybrid environment? And then sort of building excellence is very important. I'll maybe talk about those three points. Right. From a creative perspective, Mr. Ori, you know, we say that digital has a certain following in terms of demographics and, you know, and a legacy certain following. So from perspective, how do you ensure that the two maintain a certain connect, you know, at all times when a brand goes for transformation? You know, because there are two dynamics at play. There's a different audience for the digital and a different audience for the legacy. How do you bring them together in one visual, in one expression, and they can relate to it at the same time? When you say different audience for legacy, meaning the tradition of the consumer base. Yes, yes, yes. So, you know, it's a very simple answer, actually. It doesn't require too much of science because, you know, finally, whether it's on digital, offline, online, whatever, we are talking to human beings, right? We are, you know, at times, you get so confused and convoluted in our own thinking of AI and machine learning and this, that finally you're talking to human beings. So you need to talk emotion, right? And emotion, if, you know, is relevant and from the lives of, you know, the consumers reflects their real lives, reflects, you know, the way they live, it connects, right? So the, whether it is, you know, something that, you know, you find that, will the digital audiences like this or will the offline audiences like this, the importance is really about brand being true to itself, right? So like what Sumanth also said, you know, it's really about identifying and staying true to your purpose, right? How you define it, how you redefine it, you know, it may in the digital world, you may find a different interpretation of that purpose in the, you know, offline world, you may find a different interpretation, but the fact is it's held together by a similar touch feel and nobility of the brand, you know? So it's not that, you know, the brand behaves completely differently in different environments. That I think is schizophrenic, won't work for any brand. So for instance, if you take Amul, for instance, right? The Amul famous Amul holdings, which are the longest lasting campaign in the history of Indian advertising, right? So look at, I mean, it's still relevant, right? So whether it's a young person or an old person, everybody has a good laugh, right? So it's capturing, it's an insightful take. It's the way, you know, a comment on the way we live and what we do. And because it's such an insider's point of view, it connects seamlessly to everybody, right? Whether you are seeing these Amul takes on your mobile or you're seeing it on a hoarding or you're seeing it in newspaper, depend. I mean, it's immaterial where you see it actually. The, with screen, which these all mediums, what you say, how you connect, what emotion you evoke, I think is at the premium today, more than anything else and above it all is creativity, right? And I know, you know, even Jacob talked about it is, is that, you know, there's a sameness, right? So that's the biggest thing that we need to watch out for because, you know, it's a temptation, you know, for all brands to take the easy route out, but to really stand out, to make a difference, it's what's the take that you have? What's your point of view? Very important in today's day and age. People want brands with a point of view. You have to take, and that point of view, of course, comes from your brand purpose, you know? So it's a lot of pieces there, but I think the important thing is really to be human, you know, and if you are human, I think you can take any, you know, segregation of media or whatever it is, I think that's subservient to that, really. Right. Mr. Chattopadhy, the same question to you. I mean, how do you maintain that consistency of visual, you know, when it comes to brand that is addressing two different audience segments or multiple audience segments at the same time? Actually, another point came to mind from your last question, which was, I think one of the big changes that we're seeing today because of digital is that earlier on, you know, you could have a message which was crafted for your communication, where you could sound very noble and stand for a cause, for example. Today, because everything can be, you know, Google, everything can be researched, a consumer today wants the brand to actually live what they're claiming to espouse. So if you're a brand which says that, you know, we stand for gender equality, and then, you know, somebody puts out an article saying that, you know, they pay less to their female employees or their female brand ambassadors than their males. That is good. Sorry, Shumoto. Or you organize a webinar with only men, right? This is some diversity, because I'm not Indian. That's one part of it. Another thought that came to my mind was, you know, we're talking about the, so to speak, the digital versus the non-digital. I think in the next few years, I think they're saying that by 2025, if not earlier, there are going to be 900 million digitally-enabled consumers in India. So, you know, it's all going to become digital, and the word digital will disappear because there's not going to be anything else. And then coming to your question on consistency, I'll just give you an example of a brand that we work on at 82.5, which is Bisleri. So, more than a year ago, or maybe a year ago, we came up with the Bisleri Camels campaign, which was one of the most effective campaigns that, you know, we had done for them in many years, because, you know, as you know, that Bisleri became like a generic word for asking for, or you asked for a Bisleri brand of water. So, you know, instead of getting like a water expert in a lab coat, we got the camels of Rajasthan to be the spokespeople. So, that was a very, very successful campaign. And then in the last few months during lockdown, we had to create communication for them, obviously, which, you know, it wasn't going to dramatically depart from this television campaign that we had done. So, we created a campaign once again with a camel called Badal, and this was the monsoon campaign. And it talked about the fact that, you know, you get safe delivery, contactless delivery of the water to your home, which is what a consumer is looking for today. So, I think that it's, in a sense, there's a lot of consistency in terms of the creative platform, except this was much more digital. It was using animation as an execution device. And at the same time, if you saw that campaign that we did a year ago, which was more on television, and you see this campaign on digital, they are speaking in the same voice. It's a certain brand personality. There's a quirkiness to it. And it connects with the masses. So, I think that these things, I think as we, as creative people, you know, when there's a new thing that comes in, probably when TV came in after print and radio, people said, oh my God, you have to, you know, people sort of look at the technology and forget the storytelling or the creativity at the heart of it. And whether you're crafting a video for the internet, whether you are, you know, you're in the gaming world and you want to somehow put your brand in the gaming world, it's all about telling a story with a consistent voice. And at the same time, adapting to the reality of that environment. So, I think it's not, I think Rohit said it's not rocket science, really. It's about understanding human emotions. And then whatever is the latest technology, which, you know, I think Jacob- That's the other side. It's, you take whatever's the latest technology and you do the storytelling. You obviously use that. I mean, there was a wonderful example of a Diwali commercial where, you know, where they actually, whichever locality or area of India that you were watching, that TV commercial, you know, it was actually giving you links to local businesses from which, where you could buy those, the kind of things that were being talked about in the ad film. And this was a way for that brand to reach out and help, you know, help the community. So, and even today, like Amazon, which is as far away as you can get from brick and mortar is helping out Kirana stores by giving them a space on their platform. So yeah, so sorry, I know I'm digressing and talking about all sorts of things. But yeah, so I think consistency is, if you know what is the true essence and soul of your brand and we as creative storytellers will tell the story adapting to the different mediums. I don't find that, I just think that, you know, you need to know how far you can stretch and where to pull back. But I think it's also, like I said, right at the beginning that if you know what your brand purpose is, then you can use that as a touchstone to decide that if you're on Facebook or Instagram that you know, you will take certain liberties versus if you're on your company website or you know, on an e-commerce portal, you will talk about it in a different way. But the heart of it is the same. Right, right. I'm following this order. I come from Ben, Mr. Ben Benan because everybody has to wait equally. So my question to you, so this, we have audience questions as well. So we have 10 minutes. I want to fit in a couple of them. Tell me, sir, Mr. Ben Benan, is when you talk about brand transformation and we have done it, for example, a brand does it, in this digital surround sound that we have, is it easy to measure the impact of it? The good thing about data analytics and the capabilities that we have now in terms of how users actually behave and interact with our digital proposal help us really create new KPIs and see what the performance of our brand is efficient or not efficient or works or not works in terms of clicks to exit or not clicked to exit or how many seconds are they stuck to your screen before they go to the next one or how, et cetera, et cetera. So the way of measuring the impact of brand online is much more, it's easier, I would say. I don't want to say it's more efficient, but it's easier than it is offline. Not to disregard the impact of offline and not to disregard the impact of a seamless experience be it on or off. But I think data analytics allows us to really come up with very solid and very good info about the performance of a brand online. Mr. Sada, your thoughts on this? Yeah, so yeah, I kind of agree in terms of what Mr. Jacob said. I mean, today, I think digital obviously gives you a lot more data insight, which is more from a numbers perspective and you can get to know a lot. But the thing is, how you want to use finally these data for your business at a larger brand perspective. So there is, from a brand perspective, one needs to be slightly careful, but just about creating conversion, I think these data are extremely useful, but from a brand perspective, you obviously need to go back to the brand purpose and see what consumers are saying and how you want to use it, yeah. Right, Mr. Vyas at the agency level, tell me how do you evaluate the outcome of the brand transformation, I mean, how does this work? And has digital help in making it simpler? Yeah, I will answer in a two ways. So I think first of all, measure what matters, right? In terms of there is a enough amount of noise also in the market, in terms of multiple data points. So it's a very important what you are going to measure against. And once you identify, it's sort of relatively easier and it's a lot to know that fundamental truth is only two part what it does in terms of brand which is more in the mind-measure area and the second is what it does in the business, right, in terms of data acquisition or a consumer also, whatever you measure. So there are the sort of two ultimate tools between them. On your second point, in terms of especially in digital environment, the my answer will be depends, right? In terms of if brand is deeply engaged with consumer, the evaluation or any change which is happening at brand level immediately get noticed and there's a feedback mechanism, right? So be it in terms of social media and consumers start reacting to any change happening at a brand level. But if you are not mature or not with that level then it doesn't get noticed. So it's important to sort of reach that level where you can get a feedback mechanism and start and establish a dialogue with the consumer. Right. Mr. Oree said rightly that all of this AI and everything is in between but we are dealing with essentially human beings, you know? How long does it take for a brand that has transformed itself to set in and build a new connect with its audience in your view? Right. Okay. Mr. Oree, can you? Yes. No, that's a really difficult question because I don't think there's a playbook of, you know length of time when a brand has to, you know you know that there is a traction behind the brand and people obviously understand and you know the brand is actually looking at, you know a new connection. So the way we actually look at it is obviously, you know if it's a heritage brand or if it's a new brand and you know how changing perceptions of a heritage brand are really much harder and take a longer time than obviously a new brand which is coming in can create new perceptions and easy for brands to actually do that. But you know, the way we look at it is obviously track the consumer now and like everybody has been saying that digital has made it easier for us to actually look at different points and look at, you know how the consumer is actually connecting and buying the brand. So, you know, it's different strokes for different folks. I mean, I don't think it's possible to say what specific timeframe this would really mean, you know and the connection would actually happen. It really is depending on the market situation the brand history, the consumer set that we're talking to and the complexity of the environment, you know so a lot of that will actually dictate the length of time. Quickly, Mr. Chathapadhyay, I mean so does a creative agency's association with the brand end with campaign likes and buzz around it or should it be beyond it also? I think that the way that we approach it is that, you know, we are sort of marketing partners for the marketing teams in our, you know we solve business problems for them so I don't think that it ends. Of course, me basically being a creative person for me by greatest height happens when you know, when we've created something great and of course then you're waiting to see what is the response to it and if it's got a great response then nothing like it but certainly it doesn't end and again coming back, you know we're saying in the digital era everything is far more measurable. So you know the response good or bad far more quickly than you did in the past and you know and also I think what digital and social allow you to do is this kind of quick A-B testing. I mean today, you know, we can talk about putting out two alternate pieces and seeing which one fed better and then putting our money behind that. So I think that we're far more involved in the client's business and the client's brand because we have to be frankly speaking, you know it's a, you can't today be an advertising agency that says that, okay now I've done this really creative campaign for you and you know now the rest is up to you. So it doesn't work by that you're constantly interacting and constantly fine tuning because as the consumer feedback is coming really rapidly and so you have to react to that and then course correct and keep on building from your core values. So I have these audience questions. This one is for Mr. Sarda and Mr. Vyas that with short attention span as we all know how does a brand ensure etiquette reach and top of mind recall? Mr. Sarda first. I mean, when you're to, you know there's short attention span and you are transformed how do you ensure that you have enough, you know top of the mind recall? Yeah, so I think we are living in the tapped up world. We literally tapped up every moment on our mobile all the time and I'm sure each one of us we look at our mobile spend time on each of our device. I'm sure it's gonna be three to four hours minimum in a day. So I think yeah, there is too much of information too much of bombarding the way I personally believe in that the brands need to create three second stories. I think you have to have ability to say what do you want to say in three seconds in this world. I mean, it's just a metaphor. I think that's how short lived or that's how that's the kind of time a consumer sort of gives you if you are able to crack it. I think a brand will see each awareness whatever you may call it but I completely believe in this world of three seconds and I live by it. And Mr. Vlas. What I would add to what you just said and I totally agree is embrace truth. If what you say is honest, if you say is direct and it's truthful you will succeed. Truth. Right. Mr. Vlas, your thoughts on this? Yeah, completely with power in terms of basically need to be in a way fit the stopper or thumb stopper, right? So that's our ultimate test in terms of your in a way engagement your communication can drive. From top of that, I would say segmenting consumer and giving relevant message is also a good starting point to customize your message by various segments. Right. Mr. Ori for you a question, a quick question. I just wanted to say something to Pawan. I said, Pawan, I have to represent the agency side. Let's make it six seconds or not three. Yeah, so I was very careful to say it's just a metaphor. I like the way that you added that. Mr. Ori for you, that was a quick question. The question Mr. Ori does digital internet give actual freedom to creative teams to toy with new ideas in the absence of a limited 30 seconder? You know, that's a classic trap because, you know, everybody says that, oh, you know, we don't have money for mainline. So let's do something on digital. And when you present a bold and brave idea to a client, the client, you know, oftentimes says, that's OK for digital, but not OK for the main brand. You know, I don't believe that what is OK for the brand is OK for the brand, right? So and today, you know, you digitally is not some hole that you can go and hide, you know, that's where the light shines. And before you know it, it'll be over everybody else, right? So so you can't there's no way to hide for brands anymore, right? So to say that, you know, on on digital, we'll do this. And on mainline, we'll do this. I think does not work at all. Right, Mr. Benwood and the last question to you. How can you build brand loyalty in this digital age? Is it difficult for brands to do it? There's a question from Odeh Vahi. This is a question. Goodness. Brand loyalty to me, brand loyalty is built around, as I said before, I think, I think. Being particularly when you when you're targeting Gen Z's and the new and the new consumer, I think it's fundamental that brands do not play with words are direct, are bold and honest. I think the only way to really build loyalty is to be relevant. And once you're relevant, you can differentiate yourself and you're relevant if you're honest and you're truthful. Right, right. I think we are, I mean, just just overstepped the time and thank you so much everyone for joining me. Thank you, Mr. Ben Binan, Mr. Sardar, Mr. Jathopad V.I., Mr. Vyasa and Mr. Ohri for those wonderful insights. And this brings us to the end of ABP News Presents Brand Transformation in the digital age and hopefully we'll see you soon with a mixed panel as Mr. Ohri pointed out very soon. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thanks.