� agreements on next speakers are ready just a minute ahead of time as I think everyone's staying anyway, we just crack on So we now have Daniel Johnston and Rachel Wal fromworthy Gwyddo wno'n cael y peth eich eu cofio'r un eich Alexor o gymryd? Cofi, o ffthatlio'n cwmwysus sefyddych جم Os yw'r cwmwysus eich cymryd? Mi astud o'r peth eich cwmwysus eich spotify o eich apple? O ffthatlio eich cwmwysus eich ajw holl Llingo o O'r Rosetta Stone? Onw, oed galla'n ddod? O'r peth eich cwmwysus eich cwmwysus eich ceriol y poddiad? bwysig yn dweud ā, ddwych am ychydig mawr i ddyweddartdau'u ddefnyddio. Yr un ddiweddau, ddwych yn ddysgu'n ddorol, ddwy'n ddorol, ddwych ar hyn yn ddiwyd, ddwych ar hyn o'n ddiwydol. Yn rhoi. Oedd y cyfle yna'r odd yn ymddangos bethau yn mynd o'r edryd ac yn ddysgu'r adrodau'r adrodau. Mae'n ddysgu'r adrodau'r ddydd yn ddysgu'r adrodau'r adrodau... o'r llwg pethau a o'r ffordd. Mae'r rhaid i wneud iawn o'r ffordd. Mae'n gweithio a mae'n gweithio o'r ffordd. Mae'n ffordd y gweithio sefydig o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd, mae'r bach o'r ffordd yn ôl i gyd yn cyfnodol o'r unig, aeth i dda'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd. Os yw'r bach o'r ffordd yn cael ei ddechrau eich bach o'r ffordd o'r ffordd, yw'n gweithio eich ffordd. Ond i'r dweud, rwy'n cael cyfnod y gallwn cyfnod o'r ddechrau yn cael ymwyngor yn ymwyngor. Byddwn yn cyfnod o'r ddweud o'r poddiad yn ymgyrch yn ei ddweud ymlaen, ond mae'n meddwl, ond mae'r technologi. A'r ddweud yn ystod bydd y peth sy'n cread i'r poddiad. Yn arddangos, ydych chi'n cerddau'n poddiad? Well, lots of people are listening to them, and lots of people are making them. But where did this come from? How did they take off? Well, Richard Berry writes in 2015 about what he calls this golden age of podcasting which was launched by the popularity of the podcast cereal. So how it all started, podcasts were really this rival to radio. Producers and listeners had this opportunity to really explore fel y bwysig hwnnw i'r hyn yn gollegon o'r mynd i'r hyn sydd ymddangos, ac mae'r hyn yn gwneud yn teimlo i gael i chi ddweud yr ysgufodol i gael i gael i chi ddechrau am yr hyn. Felly, ym wythnos i ni i sylfu gyda'r ysgufod i'r beth ddweud yma yng Nghyrch Cymru, ond yn 2014 ar y pwg hwnnw i'r hwnnw i'r modd,Finally, that is what he describes as the classic narratives and the experiences of audiobooks and it really prompted the listener engagement, people were really had a mental and emotions connection with the topics that they were listening to. The content is really topical really culturally relevant and really sparked a lot of conversation, people had a lot of question, they had debates and they had a также their disagreement. The engagement and the word of mouth created this shared experience. The popularity of Serial kickedstarted what Barry describes as the Golden Age of podcasting, as we know podcasts and how they have risen today. In a golden age of podcast, it is not surprising that we have started to look at the application of the technology to learning and how that can be done. Pen ieddaeth ychydig yn ôl i gael y Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyhoedd bydddiag y cyfnod ar gyfer teulu ac yn ddim yn ymgyrchol i g insider cyllideb yn ddim yn ddim yn ei hwn i ddefnyddio. Ond yn unrhyw dillodraeth Cymru yr hynod, yr hynod ymgyrchydd yr cyfnod ar gyfnodraeth General yma, i gŵr gweithio. Ond wedi gynnwys iddyn nhw ym mwynig yna ffordd byddiwch i gael eu cyfnod ar hyvin ni i gŵr yna. Well this is really what drew us to our main research question which is that can listening to these mainstream podcasts be described or interpreted as a learning experience. So to explore this we decided to look closely at the podcast themselves. We found a list of the 50 most popular podcasts on a particular day and selected full podcasts from this and we selected them by choosing ones that seemed like they had educational content within them and also by choosing a range in genre. We then completed an auto ethnography where we kept listening journals while we listened to the podcast and performed close textual analysis on a few episodes to look at the detail. So the first podcast that we listened to which we've already talked about was Serial. So for those who aren't aware Serial is an investigative journalism podcast that narrates a non-fiction story over multiple episodes. So when I started my listening journey of listening to Serial I'd already listened to season one so I jumped right into season two and just as a really brief description season two investigates the story behind deployed private first class Beau Bergdolm who walked off his post in Afghanistan in 2009 was captured and held captive by the Taliban for five years. Wow so my listening experience of listening to Serial threw up a lot of really interesting points and the first one that really struck me was the narrative structure of this series. The episodes fit within this overall structure. You need to listen to each of the episodes in order to really gain the full experience and the complete story and this really maps on to what Walker describes in learning design in that how narrative really helps us to structure knowledge. It's a really good aid in remembering and imparting knowledge. The other thing that was really significant for me listening to Serial was how the story is told and how information is presented. You producer spoke to a lot of different people they really took care to get a really balanced account of events as they unfolded. So how does that map on to the listener experience? Well I decided to go online and have a look at what people were saying about the season and unsurprisingly people had a lot to say online. There were huge conversations, huge debates and discussions about the content and this really maps on to what King describes as this cooperative or jigsaw learning model where views were taken outside of the listening experience and really debated and discussed outside of the context of learning and knowledge was really acquired and shared collectively. The second podcast we looked at was Ted Talks Daily which is basically recordings of Ted Talks that were given to live audiences by experts on particular topics so this felt like a curated collection of lectures and mapped really directly on to the typical stage on the stage model we see throughout traditional education. In contrast to Serial, the listening experience did not evolve starting at episode one and working through to the end. Instead I went through and I selected episodes that seemed interesting or relevant to me and this way I was able to co-construct my listening and learning experience. The structure of the episodes themselves also resembled a lot of learning experiences that we see there was scaffolding so the speaker would establish foundational learning and grow complexity out of that. There was segmenting, selection of data and information and indigestible chunks. In fact, while I was listening I often pull out statistical facts that were being shared in the episodes and text them to my husband. But I think what I found most striking about the Ted Talks Daily episodes was that these speakers, these educators, were clearly not neutral. Scholars like Paul Lifford would have had a field day with these speakers who, while they were sharing empirical research and factual information, were intertwining it with their philosophical beliefs. So the third podcast that we looked at was The Guilty Feminist so The Guilty Feminist is a comedy podcast hosted by Deborah Francis White and it really explores 21st century topics relevant to women and mostly from the perspective of women. So in a similar way to Ted Talks, the engagement in online learning that Walker describes is really evident in how I chose to listen to the episodes that I did for the purpose of our research. I really chose topics that I was either familiar with or topics that I wanted to know a bit more about, or I chose comedians that I knew that I liked. So where and why I listened was also really important in my research. I mostly listened to episodes while I was on the bus during my commute, as a lot of people do. Often I found that I was really deeply engrossed in what I was listening to. We would get three or four stops ahead and I would not have remembered how we got there because I was really involved in what I was listening to. I even laughed out loud at points and I'm sure people thought that I was going a bit crazy but that's the level of engagement. I also listened to some of the episodes at the gym which I'd never considered doing before but surprisingly they made for my workout go a bit faster which I was not expecting. But really the significance of this is the environment in which you listen to some of these episodes can really map on to what we already know about learning design and that it drew a lot of connections with cognitive load theory. This idea that being deeply engrossed in what you're listening to really has your brain and your imagination really heightened in those moments and in those centres I was really focused on just listening to what I was paying attention to. And finally listening to these episodes was a really reflective experience. As a woman myself I really enjoyed reflecting on like the lively debates and discussions that were being talked about and really thought drew up like thoughts and feelings that I was comparing to the experiences of the guests being spoken to. And the informal back consistent format of all of these episodes really does create this reflective space. Finally we looked at Brexitcast which is a news show following the events around Brexit. It's hosted by political journalists based in Brussels and Westminster and features guests from around the world. And yet in the episodes the hosts and the guests are able to create a really connected discussion despite their geographical distance. Something that we look for a lot in distance education and online learning. The hosts also modeled skills for political analysis. They modeled things like where to get information, how to debate, how to interrogate facts in ways that really map onto what we know about observational learning. And finally the Brexitcast website provided other ways for you to get involved and to learn by taking quizzes or reading blog posts by hosts. So the experience could be really multimodal. Cool, so when we go back to our original question which explored really whether podcasts can be described as a learning experience and for us we thought the overall conclusion was yes. They are learning experiences and they're in a learning experience that really maps on to MOOCs in the most similar way in that they're learning objects, they're educational experiences that just really reminded us of that MOOC experience. So how are they similar? Well they mapped on to what is already been established descriptions of learning in the literature that we reviewed. They have low entry requirements, they're inexpensive to consume, listeners need no prior qualification, knowledge or expertise to listen to them and they're really similar to MOOCs in that they are massive. We looked at serial productions and download numbers of season one and season two and their episodes have been downloaded more than 250 million times showing just how far and wide that reaches. At the same time mainstream podcasts have a lot of the drawbacks that MOOCs have so they're difficult to assess, they're difficult to evaluate but they also have some of the issues around demographics that we've seen criticised in MOOCs. So we had this huge expectation that MOOCs were going to widen participation and education and allow access to people who weren't familiar with traditional roots of education but in critiques of MOOCs we've seen that MOOC audiences tend to be degree educated and Western middle class and that is the same for podcast listeners. So in the US alone podcast listeners were 40% more likely to have a university degree compared to the general population. Ultimately you can say that the most distinctive difference between MOOCs and mainstream podcasts is that podcasts are designed to be learning in the same way that MOOCs and courses are and yet they're arguably a more flexible and mobile and less bandwidth intensive way to engage people with educational content. So what does this mean for us? So podcasts definitely have this opportunity to widen participation to democratise knowledge and to democratise learning. Here at Kings we have a couple of different teams and departments who already engage in podcasts for the purpose of disseminating information and for discussing their research. This is a page from our wall studies departments who have really grown their podcast following discussing their current research and up-to-date developments on areas that they're speaking in and they're lecturing on a regular basis. It should also impact the way we think about MOOCs. So what if we start thinking about MOOCs as more similar to podcasts as media form rather than formal courses? It's really important for people like us who work in online learning. Cool so why is this important to us? So we both work in an online learning team where we work with audio on a daily basis and this really started from a desire from us to understand how we currently use audio in our daily working practices. So we started with a interrogation into our instructional design process. How do we work with audio at the moment? Well we interviewed our instructional designers to find out what their thoughts were and came out with some really interesting insights. Instructional designers talked about the really inventive ways that we have for the potential use of audio in online learning ways that are really rich in evidence and their descriptions really mapped on to Middleton's premise of audio as being a really rich learning space and in general their personal consumption of non-learning focused audio really highlighted how much of an entertaining media it is in guiding and inspiring learning design. So overall we thought we really need to start thinking more broadly about what is digitally enabled learning. So ultimately this research is more of a beginning than a conclusion, raised an enormous number of questions for us and it has a huge number of limitations. So we need to keep asking more questions about the design of audio media for learning but also about how to extend education to massive cohorts of learners about the ever blurring lines between formal and informal learning experiences and the identity of universities as learning providers in a world of increasingly free and open content. Thank you very much. Thank you both very much, perfectly timed and we have just under five minutes for questions so I'll ask if we can get the V-box window up. Quite a few things have come in. Can the talks and the tower be put into bigger rooms? You don't have to answer that, that's clearly a question that's come from elsewhere but I wonder if we could just, I'll let you pick maybe the first one of those you want to engage with. Do you want to do the learning disabilities one? Do you want to do the second one? Yes absolutely, so I think this is a fairly important question so it's about to what extent podcast and other audio can be relevant in the context of participants with learning, with hearing disabilities. So I think podcasts have advantages with accessibility so they can be a great advantage to for instance people with dyslexia who might struggle with reading but they also have drawbacks in that if you're not able to hear you're not able to consume them so I would recommend for anyone who's considering creating audio or podcasts to provide an alternative. So in our practice when we when we create audio for online learning that's something we've invested in is that we get a human transcription of all that audio. Great thank you and you talked a lot about the kind of MOOCs as well and there's a question there. MOOCs are built around connectivism and peer-to-peer interaction. How can podcasts be interactive or I guess how could they be used interactively? Interesting. I mean at the moment we kind of use audio that goes alongside visuals and certainly something that we would like to do a bit more would be to think about how we talk a lot about like scaffolding and learning and I think it would be great to make them interactive but I think we need to kind of go back a few stages and really think about how we can use them to supplement the content that we're already putting out there. I think it definitely is going to be something we should explore in the future but at the moment if anybody is doing that then I'd love to hear more from you because I would be really interested in learning more about that as well. And I think yeah the other way that we did see for instance with Serial is that people were connecting in these informal online communities so there is connection happening and actually again if we go back to the critique of MOOCs some of the criticisms that we have is that there actually isn't connection happening in MOOCs especially in the ones that focus more on sort of independent and asynchronous learning. Thank you very much. I'm conscious that these questions will be coming from colleagues in the room but is there anyone who isn't using the Vvox app as a question they would like to ask? Yes gentlemen, third row from the front and if you could say who you are as well please. Hi my name is Tom Buckley I come from UEI I'm a digital learning manager there. I just I just wanted to ask from your kind of looking at either the research or your own experiences how did you find your reception of these podcasts? I've kind of got the feeling with I listen to about 20 hours a week I'm an addict but I see amongst other people that the intimacy of them and their directness of them sometimes stops the criticality of the content that's been delivered and that's something that you picked upon at the TED talks. Is that something that you see? Do you think there's sometimes people receive that as the truth rather than something to be discussed? I think that's a really good point and yes we definitely did see that thing with TED talks but when I went and looked at reviews of TED talks that was also a criticism that listeners were sharing so they were concerned about that as listeners. I think that we see sort of an equal level of non-neutrality if you like in the classroom all the time in written content. I actually think that there's an extent to which the spoken word leaves a lot more opportunity for critique than the written word. I think there's an extent to which when we see something written down we take it as being more factual than when we see someone or hear someone speaking it and we realise that it's a point of view. Great, thank you very much. We're just about on time so I'm going to have to give apologies to colleagues who've posted some of the other questions but presumably if you're around you'd be happy to have a chat with colleagues. Okay so we could thank Danielle and Rachel and we'll move on to our final talk. Our DigiMap services deliver high quality mapping data for all stages of education. Future developments include a text and data mining service working with satellite data and machine learning and smart campus technology.