 Stanford University. The California State Legislature play a central role in creating legal and regulatory framework for us to enable the clean energy transition. With that, I would like to introduce our next panel, led by Dean Aruma Jinda, along with two distinguished guests, Senator Josh Becker and Senator Henry Stern. It's such an honor to have two of our leading senators and leading in the energy and climate world here with us. If you don't know the history already, and let me just state the obvious. We have Senator Henry Stern who graduated from Cal and we have Senator Josh Becker who graduated from Stanford. And here we are, you're the inspiration for both of us to bring Stanford and Cal together to save California. Well, let's just start. I mean, it's such an opportunity to get into your mind to how you're thinking about the future or you're thinking about California. So maybe I could just start with Senator Stern to just offer your sort of initial remarks and we get into some Q&A. I want into your mind. That's why we're here. I want into Arun's mind and all of Stanford's mind. These are the biggest minds in the whole world and it frankly is therapeutic. I think when you work on climate in maybe lonelier parts of the world, like you may think of Sacramento as a distant place, a small rural farm town up there. People like Josh and I, Chair Randolph, Chair Hokeshield, their staff, there's a little ecosystem. But when we come into the big C here in the Bay and we're here at Stanford, it feels like, okay, maybe we can't solve this. I'm an environmental lawyer by trade and I'm proud to say one of your mentees back in the Berkeley days when he was up at the labs to all you graduate students who spend time working with your professors or am I right here writing talking points for big wigs when we're organizing clean tech for Obama, I was writing his talking points and I was his intern. Okay, now I'm a senator. So just no, I wouldn't advise that too much, but it's a wonderful thing to work with people you look up to that are your friends, these human relationships we've got and rooms like this and the sort of, you know, the real interstitial stuff is to me the X factor for solving this crisis. I chair the Joint Climate Committee in the state and we oversee all the state's climate policies which end up putting me in places across the world too. I end up sort of leading a lot of our UN delegations just went to Dubai, UN Climate Week, deal with the Europeans. You end up having to have a very global mindset when running a committee like that. So that's my main job. I represent Southern California, so I live in the San Fernando Valley and we live right behind the Aliso Canyon gas field and my district is actually home to the largest methane explosion in US history and so we're sort of viscerally connected also to the fossil fuel transition. The stakes are high back home in LA, but glad to be up north. Thanks, Arun. Terrific. Senator Becker. Sure, thank you. Senator Stern mentioned, yeah, we're very lucky to have folks like Chair Randolph and Chair Holtschild up in Sacramento and it is fun to be here. I remember I saw Thomas Friedman speak once and he said, I'm a translator from English to English and when I was running I thought I want to be a translator between Silicon Valley and Sacramento and when you're up in Sacramento, you're really up there. You don't get a lot of connections, so it's fun to be back and I thank Arun for inviting us and when I think big picture in California I think we need to do four things. We need to do one, we need to produce a lot more clean energy, a lot more renewables at all levels. Number two, we have to get that energy to where it needs to go, right? We talked about this last panel when you think about a crowded highway into LA or into the Bay Area. If we can't get more throughput, then no matter what we produce, it doesn't matter, right? So we have to get to where it needs to go. Three, we need to make much more progress on reducing methane gas in buildings, that's commercial buildings, residential buildings. And then fourth, we need to pay more attention to industrial and ag emissions. And I think that's why we're so busy because there's so much to do. We're really talking about transforming our entire economy and I'm happy to talk about any of those areas as we go forward but when I look at my legislation it's been around those areas. Starting with one big picture piece that I did when we were in Coppin in Glasgow which I announced which was to get our state government to net zero by 2035. So 10 years ahead of the rest of state. So if we're on fleet, our own buildings, our own electricity, let's have the state lead the way with our own purchasing power, number one. But then in each of those other areas making sure that we can deliver energy where it needs to go with transmission that we worked on last year, SB 410 making sure that our utilities actually have the resources and accountability to get stuff plugged in to the grid and make sure we work on industrial and areas like cement. My very first year of passed the law actually was the only sector of the California economy which had a net zero target for a while was our cement bill. As you know globally cement is about 7% of emissions, globally of carbon emissions and again the innovations happening here so we want the technology to happen here to lead the way to net zero cement. We had a bill around enteric emissions from cows last year. We ended up getting that done through the budget. So we're really looking at each and every aspect of carbon emissions and happy to go into that a little bit today. Fantastic. We're going to open up a Q&A but let me get you started with the following. I mean we just heard in the previous panel some of the concerns. We use a framing out here with an acronym called DAIRS. We want decarbonization but it needs to be affordable. We need reliability and equity and we need security. That's the DAIRS framework. So as you look at the balancing act out here, if you go too fast you can get yellow jacket protesters like you saw in Paris. If you go too slow we're not addressing climate change enough. What is the role of the legislature in California and addressing that? How are you thinking about it? Senator Stern? Take that one first. Yeah, warily. I mean it's real. It's 110 degrees on a September evening in Sacramento while we're making a decision whether to extend Diablo or not, the nuclear plant. And the grid is literally in full flex alert. I forget what phase we're at from ISO but the light's going to go off in the capital itself while we're debating how to keep the lights on. Those are hard, imperfect, politically not very, you know, they don't work well on a postcard or a speech. The Biden administration at a macro level is going through the exact same difficult decisions. A world is at war. The EU is now relying on the US as its largest gas exporter and yet we're trying to fossil fuel transition. How do you make these decisions? We fired up some of our oldest gas peaker plants around the state in disadvantaged communities. And I was very wary of that decision and yet the state sort of we wrestled with it and sometimes you have to own, I think, own the bad parts and the good. I think there's a realism that people will start to trust us if we're just straightforward with them about the scale, the challenge and we know it won't be magic. And then if the good starts to look a lot more convenient, cheaper, more reliable, if that electric car or your power bill or all those, your heating system at home is less noisy, less clunky, easy to pop in the appliance upgrade, it feels like okay, I just want the newest iPhone, let me get the newest car, I want the newest heater and it starts to feel like a good thing and not a sacrifice. But I still think we lack some basic analytics that we've got on the electric side but I still don't think we understand both the California consumer and the American consumer enough about their sensitivity around fuel and that there is almost an irrational, and this is well researched in economics but that you pay attention to the little things you buy every day. Even if, net, they're not the biggest part of your budget, if your Snickers bar used to cost you $1 and now it costs you $1.30, this is why Americans still feel inflation is out of control and that their lives and that fuels is higher than ever because you watch that ticker go off at the pump and it hurts every single time but on a net basis, the household income in this country is stronger than it's ever been and California consumers are actually on stronger footing than they've ever been but it's those kinds of, it's the behavioral side of it so I know we talked a little bit about tobacco earlier and cigarettes and that transition if I could, I'd say it's going to be a lot harder than that because this is not something that's sort of like oh, it'd be nice to get another pack or whatever like something to have but something you need and you kind of hate buying, right? Like who likes filling up at the pump? Who likes paying their utility bill? All these things hurt so the areas of policy that we're wrestling in you have to be very honest knowing that not everyone shares your enthusiasm not everyone wants to even be part of a climate revolution or find themselves inspired by that they just want to like have a hot shower, eat their lunch, get to work, go through their day and so we almost have to in my view be this kind of a more invisible revolution that actually doesn't feel that revolutionary it just feels convenient and reasonable and sort of just little upgrades in the system along the way and I think it's hard for us because I'm so passionate about these issues and it's central to my life and even when I'm dealing with other legislators like it's easy to talk to Senator Becker because we're both like we've been we've read 14 other articles about whatever this new building de-carb rule that CECs and then you go talk to somebody else and they're like, yeah okay I'm a school teacher from Modesto and I work on housing like I get you're excited but why does this matter to me? so grounding ourselves, making hard decisions, starting to own them and solving that affordability part early and having a strategy going in so that we can credibly promise people like the future with a clean energy economy is going to be cheaper for you and your family than it is right now last stat I'll leave you with the families making $80,000 or less in California spend more than half their budget on energy so more on food and health care combined is spent on energy and that's your gas bill, your electric bill and gasoline and that isn't trap and it's eating people alive and I truly believe that electrification if we do it right can free people from that trap but we gotta remember that all the time fantastic, Senator Becker sure a couple things, one thing I left out in the intro I was trying to start you know where are we big picture in California right so big picture we still about 400 million metric tons of emissions every year we're reducing around 2 to 3% now around 2 to 3% emissions a year but to get to our 2030 goals we need to be reducing about 4 to 5% a year so we need to be moving much faster in California despite all the amazing things we've done and are doing and again that's probably also a plea to all of you to focus I know a lot of people here focus federally and in California again we do have this opportunity it is still a battle every day because we are a large oil producing state and we want to have the reliability and affordability that you mentioned it's a battle every day for us to pass legislation but we can get things done and we do need all of your help along those lines when you mention that framework you know reliability is critical for us also for the governor right nobody wants a black out right that just can't happen and so reliability is paramount and something we think about a lot in great detail and again that's everything from more renewables on the grid also more demand response so we can get to those key moments right those key ten or so days a year but then also again making sure that we have we're planning at all levels and then the affordability piece Senator Stern talked about talked eloquently about why people care and what our colleagues are going through right when they say hey I represent mostly Latino workers making $48,000 a year they don't think any of this stuff is for them well okay maybe it hasn't been for them right they have to believe it is for them for them for her to vote for this you know whatever the relevant legislation may be so equity is both a moral consideration it's also a political consideration because it really has to work for everyone in the state they have to feel the benefits the good news they can to wrap up when you know you put in a heat pump as we all know here you also get air conditioning so you think about parts of the state by the way here you know I never when I moved here you know 25 years ago I didn't need air conditioner then I had one wall unit and then another unit and then in the portable unit we have a heat pump so we have air conditioning so you think about all the parts of the state that are getting really really hot many many days a year that they get a heat pump their quality of life is going to go up but we have to get that quality of life with the affordability so you mentioned Senator Stern you mentioned the federal government President Biden is also going through similar kinds of challenges they have to I mean frankly the whole world is going through this transition now the federal government has passed some important bills the inflation reduction act being the second one the first one was the infrastructure bill how are you thinking about leveraging the opportunity and has that triggered some of the initiatives that you're thinking about I mean it's like a gift from on hot I mean it's the best thing that's ever happened to climate policy in my short life is that that IRA and this session of congress and this president I mean it's still I grew up under Obama and thinking that that was magic what we had back in 2009 when you built ARPA-E and we had clean tech for Obama and I helped write Watsman Markey and we were going to solve it all and then it was like maybe that wasn't it maybe this is it and just need to redesign industrial policy so I think I think of the federal government now as sort of our the banker of our biggest and boldest innovations and we'll be there for this marketplace even when our state budget can't flex like that like we are right now we're running a deficit we're going to have the regulatory drivers we're going to have carbon pricing we're going to have sectoral targets we're going to have things that sort of drive the market from a regulatory perspective we've come up last week out in Lithium Valley and saying let's go and thanks to Chair Hokeshield for being an early preacher of that gospel or the carbon removal project that Senator Becker cut the ribbon on out in what was it Tracy Tracy, yeah and you know these things where we're going first to know that we don't have to go it alone anymore and it's not just on the energy commission to figure it out but that there's now a tax code behind us even with hydrogen federal governments proved enormously useful especially the treasury guidance for giving us a pathway through hydrogen where we want to say yes but we kind of don't know how yet they're showing us that way so it gives us I'd say an ability to be a little more bullish than we'd otherwise be because otherwise we got to ride our own budget cycles and sort of self-check and this way we can keep dreaming and innovating big and yeah another chunk of EV charging money just dropped last week so more to come I hope to everyone from the federal government thank you who's here seriously thank you keep it coming we will spend it well whoever you are Senator Becker I know that you are very interested in introducing something for carbon removal tell us a little bit about why you did that and is there an angle out here in partnering with the federal government on this yeah well the federal government and with Samford thanks for your leadership as we know so we this big fight my first year in the legislature we tried to codify carbon neutrality again this wonky audience I don't think I'm going to explain all of this to you but we tried to quantify to codify carbon neutrality by 2045 and we only got 14 votes out of 40 and we had by 30 Democrats we had only 14 votes to codify carbon neutrality that just shows you how it can be a fight sometimes then our governor really stepped up got involved the next year and and we did pass we've codified carbon neutrality in the state by 2045 the way we did that we codified 85% direct emissions reductions by the way carbon capture and sequestration considered a direct emissions reduction and then 15% carbon removal so what that would translate to is about 65 million metric tons a year of carbon removal by 2045 our scoping plan actually calls for more I believe it's 70 to 75 million metric tons and we're basically at very very little that we've that we've really measured as carbon reduction as carbon removal so at the same time there are a lot of promising technology, heirloom, Senator Stern mentioned they're doing kind of reverse the cement process so having limestone on trays for three days actually absorbing CO2 they prove they can bury it and now they've done that at small scale need to move to larger scale there's ocean alkanization there's people there's other just direct air capture that we know works again the question is how do we make it all more affordable so my bill and worked with Ken Branson by my Sanford Business School classmate, Ken Branson is the brains behind a lot of this is that we say okay we have to get say 65 million metric tons so let's have polluters collectively purchase 1% of that by 2030 so polluters collectively purchase 1% of that by 2030 and then we'll scale up over you know ramp that up over time the amount that they so collectively purchase 65 million metric tons by 2045 of course the belief is once we've created this market signal then the price of all this comes down everyone knows they can invest in it so this is what we're trying to do gotta pass the senate last year still is sitting in the assembly right now and that's our best guess at how can we actually really create a long-term predictable market for carbon removal let me follow up on that we have seen historically that when there are federal incentives like production tax credit on wind investment tax credit on solar that is essentially a bunch of carrots from the federal government but when there are state mandates like renewable portfolio standard that's a stick you combine the two and then it's bankable you can move much faster if you look at the inflation reduction act is essentially a bunch of carrots there are no sticks in it the only stick is the price and methane right so given the carrots out there what are the different sticks you're thinking of to move the needle on this and how difficult is it to get some sticks well I think that's a perfect analogy for this because what Arun was referring to the renewable portfolio standard which you would look overall has been our greatest source of carbon emission reduction we said okay we're going to have lots of incentives for renewable energy but we're also going to require utilities to purchase an increasing amount of renewables and it was 10% people said no you can't do that and then it was 5 I think 10, 10 then 25 then 33 and then 50 now we've got 60% by 2045 and so again there's that combination of carrots so that's what we're doing with this carbon removal bill and yeah it's really up to us to do regulatory policy in a lot of other areas as well so one of the bills that I've been focused on is 247 clean energy so we know we have lots of renewables during the day how do we make sure that we really incent and have accountability for all load serving entities to get to 247 clean energy and we tried a direct stick approach one day now we actually have a measurement so by 2026 every load serving entity is going to have to report every hour of the day how much energy they use and what percent is clean so again we're going to have good data but I think in a lot of these areas it's that both it's a great point a carrot can be a stick depending on how you wheeled it or how big your carrot is in all seriousness the oil and gas industry has said or at least sectors have said this is our pathway, this is how we want to transition this is the sector we want to be the best at we want to work in carbon removal so someone like Senator Becker comes up and says here it is but it's not just going to be a free for all we're going to have a program there's going to be a regulatory push behind it but it actually took political courage to step up and say yes to that sector and that push because on the other side people are saying in the environmental community or environmental justice community we don't want to work with anyone in the oil and gas industry and anything their money touches is out we don't want it financed by them it's blood money but at some point you've got to find a way through these regulatory programs carbon pricing that then takes that pollution money and puts it into something that's actually doing something the answer can't just be no so brave policy makes with carroty sticks makes people, forces people to come together and think about it and that's when things tend to pass legislatures because if everyone's sort of awkwardly not quite there but realize we've got to do something here that's where sort of room for that political leadership emerges and if you're a more conservative democrat we don't have a ton of republicans in this state but we're sort of the spectrum of democrats but if you're a more conservative democrat you can say okay he's not giving oil and gas what they want but he's at least trying to move their technology or these ideas forward and on the other side you're saying well it's not just a carrot at least there's some polluter pay principle here and so those designs tend to work and then they also can make you feel very lonely so you've got to be intellectually and personally sort of buoyant and courageous so it helps I'll take that to the bank I'll take that to the bank let me ask you this we know that incentives and carrots and sticks are important to move the needle at scale we're talking about scale in California has scale that once you prove it it's a proven model but there's sometimes friction in the system often times in fact I'm dealing with this on the federal government side of trying to build infrastructure the regulatory approval process I know that you're trying to streamline the process of a transmission line building but I think the bill got vetoed so tell us how you're thinking about the role of the legislature for implementation of the policies what new policies need to be developed to streamline and speed this up I'll say the governor stepped up and proposed a number of initiatives last year I took those down and I carried Bill that was the combination of some of them but it was really comprehensive you have to look at, for example we had California had its own endangered species act before the federal act and there were some species on there that weren't on the other and that weren't really endangered anymore so there was a lot of cleanup but there's still a lot of emotion around all of this so none of it is easy and then we did also did lawsuit streamlining because the problem is right now with our Sequa regime that people can sue to stop housing projects also infrastructure and we did some streamlining but really it's really lawsuit streamlining just saying hey if you're going to have a lawsuit it has to be decided in this time frame again so stuff just doesn't expand to be years and years and years we tried a couple other pieces I had a bill as before 20 and Senator Padilla 619 those did get vetoed by the governor and he said hey the PUC is going to be working on these so we're saying okay we'll work with the PUC to have the PUC then step up and do some of the streamlining itself and hopefully that will happen but it's a current it's a it's a constant battle right and that's why we want to also incent more solar close and more renewables close to urban loads but the reality is we are building a lot of it far away from urban loads and we have to work on that transmission infrastructure not to make the stakes too high on a sort of in the weeds question but I honestly think we're undergoing a test in democracies around the world as to whether this form of government can rapidly process industrial change at a pace and scale that's necessary and not abandon those sort of core principles of you know of self-determination of you know sort of bottom up especially in this country and especially in this state local governments having a sort of primacy over basic health and safety police power things like that worrying about you that there's such a direct accountability there and yet what do you do in Shasta when a board of supervisors says we don't like offshore wind or any wind just because it's renewable energy and that's what socialists do and they're going to make a political thing out of a necessary addition to our energy grid or we're trying to add lithium to the mix and we've got the local governments say is bought in and most groups are bought in but one group says well we want to leverage more out of it or we want a better community mitigation package or we're going to sue just to stop it just because we don't like you I think it's a big test especially for those of us who believe so deeply in direct democracy to find smart ways to still build consent right we're not going to do this like China it's just not going to be that way and yet go at the speed and pace we need so the renewable energy build out I think now that CEC is authorized with a lot of centralized authority for citing is going to be a great test of that I also think that you know folks like at the air board when they have so many stakeholders putting pressure on them to say don't do this new project don't do the carbon removal thing don't stick your nose into hydrogen don't try in these spaces I think we in politics need to build especially progressive politics need to build enough durability for our leaders say hey take a chance like take a measure chance and don't go all in and you don't have to buy everything and buy the you know the whatever this industry is telling you is necessary to make the transition but let them try and let's see what they can do and if industry then wants to say no and pump their brakes and say we're taking our toys and go home they can do that but if industry saying well here's a solution let's try it I don't know I don't think we can afford not to take some chances right now so you mentioned China Governor Newsom went to China and despite some of the challenge between Washington DC and Beijing and there's what we do in California obviously has implications internationally we are the fifth largest economy so how do you think about I know you're trying to solve the California problem tell us a little bit about how you're thinking about it from the international impact of this and does that figure into your decision making out here? I mean it's central to how in our office we think about what's next when it comes to climate policy I mean it's why we moved climate disclosure legislation last year and spent three or four years working on it because we saw these accounting standards emerging all over the world around net zero transitions or you know full scope one to three disclosure in Europe in Japan in Hong Kong on their exchanges going up this year in Australia Canada now and yet the US there was this gap there was a leadership gap so when there are chances to do both California first beneficial work and at the same time have these sort of positive export effects that we can do climate diplomacy indirectly through that work and build space for international progress we jump on that I mean those are huge opportunities so I don't think we're going to afford not to go to China I think the governor was incredibly brave and it was such an important mission despite all the challenges and all the things that I hate that that government does I also know we need them and we actually have things to learn from them too and so I don't know I think we can't just like we can't afford say not to deal with the oil and gas sector this fossil fuel transition same thing with the rest of the world we can't just tell ourselves even though we are California elected senators and we have to serve our constituents first if you're doing climate policy and you're not thinking about the rest of the world or even just the region like with electric policy and that we actually are part of a broader grid a broader grid than we let on a broader grid than we allow and actually maybe we could find some economies of scale if we start to regionalize our hard but this crisis demands us to break out of whatever our you know sort of ring fences in our life Senator Baker, any thoughts? I think Senator Stern you know captured it well I would say we do have to engage and I went to Douglas for the first time and you know we we learn from these areas and I think a lot of these I think you know I'm personally hopeful as a Democrat the Democrats have all three bodies of the Federal Congress of Presidency going forward but if we don't again it's going to come back to the state so it's really the stuff that we're putting in place the evidence based best practice from the Nordics and really taking that across leading edge climate states working together California, Washington State, New York Colorado we all have to work together collectively with these evidence based best practices before we go into open question just some quick note Senator Stern what would you tell the Henry Stern that is now there in UC Merced or UC Davis or somewhere in California? We have a legislative aid position open I give you my email and I really need you I really need you Henry, these are great jobs I would love to intern for myself some days I actually do that I'm very affordable for myself though I do a lot of talking points with the knowledge you're gaining here at Stanford you will have the ability to make a lot of money in your life you're touching on the only market that's bigger in the world than energy is money you're in the money do something bold and go try to make not a lot of money for a bit even just for a bit in your life take a few years and try try out just what service feels like and it's an amazing for me my puzzle was always like I want to get access to the room where it's happening and I didn't really care you know I was working for Waxman for I think I made zero dollars on that job in the basement of of Longworth writing those bills and even for Senator Pavley when I was writing her legislation it was never that it was just we're moving a hundred trillion dollar global economy so don't be don't be sort of thrown off when you look at an energy commission job and compare that to a job in New York or the private sector or Silicon Valley even no offense to all my VC friends in the room like I'm not trying to steal your people but we need your people and we need them in government and I think that the pipelines wide open for talent and I would encourage you spend time if not right away in your career spend spend a few years in service you've watched Dr. Majumdar do it he and I have both done it floated in and out of private sector into government give it that time and be free at first it's an easy way to start Senator Becker for the young Josh Becker at Stanford well I'll just add anything Senator Storn capture well I'll say that there is a Stanford JDMBA the young kid is going to come to Sacramento and he's going to be at the belief chief of staff to share a whole shield so we need to really get a lot more Stanford by the way for a while I was the only Stanford grad in the whole legislature I think now there are two in the whole legislature so we really do need to increase that connectivity between Stanford and Sacramento now that the recruiting session has been done I'm going to stand up so that I can see all of you questions from the audience okay yes sir hold on because there are people on online and I'm going to come this direction this direction and then go there Lawrence Berkeley lab and now I want to bring us to Sacramento in particular if you'll indulge us with a little bit of an inside Sacramento advice there's been several legislative efforts for a climate bond in 2024 and I know a lot depends on what the governor wants to do eventually but for those of us who are kind of watching this and feeling like this could be a very important investment for the state what's a sentinel issues are you watching to indicate whether that bond is going to happen like for example may revise numbers something like that is there anything like we should be watching and then the second thing is is there any general advice you have for us who believe that a climate bond in 2024 might be a really good thing for the state thank you I am so grateful for that question the senate bond is mine along with few others here but we've been writing that for years and trying to get it done ten billion dollars is undersized when it comes to a trillion dollar liability over the next two decades right and that's it's at 15 billion right now I think the point is we can't afford not to invest I would say don't watch for indicators I would say advocate right now and I don't think you need to be dissuaded by the current economic climate because in fact in budget years like this when we do have to be lean borrowing is smart and especially at the rates we get as a state like that we will lose money if we don't do this and those of you who can help us make that fiscal case even clearer that it's not actually a cost but it's a cost to do it I think we will be very helpful but I would say don't wait don't watch and don't be intimidated by what Sacramento is and you said may revise no one knows what that is probably in this room but it's the revised budget for the governor after he's put the January proposal out there and I would just say come make a trip and let us know you need it and California is going to be underwater on fire without water you can get all biblical if you want to about it if we don't advocate the legislature also with the governor's team because he's balancing a housing bond an education bond and a climate bond so advocate with the governor's team governor's main that's the main go see Gavin any questions on this side sorry yes over there and I'm going to come to that side hello Arun my name is Jim I'm a Cal I'm Stanford alumni daughter's godfather is a very famous trombone player um two questions you can answer one of them either one of them we have a 68 billion dollar deficit in California how does that impact what we're trying to do with climate change and secondly if the presumptive it appears GOP president that's slated here in 2024 gets elected how does that impact California you said risk involved out here yeah well I'll say we it doesn't happen from my perspective but the good news is you know jigger shaw has done a great job a lot of manufacturing is being built in red states and blue states so hopefully some of that continues at a federal level but at state level obviously it affects us the governor committed we collected we did about a 54 billion dollar climate budget over over five years that's being paired back but it's still about 48 billion over five years are still substantial that's our greenhouse gas funds so that's the thing to keep an eye on we get about 4 billion a year from greenhouse gas funds and at some point that you know capitol has to be reauthorized and so how can we make sure that we get the biggest bang for the buck for that from a climate perspective for that money alright on this side any questions you had the gentleman over here in the picture thanks so much my name is Shane Smith I'm from Pasadena 100 community coalition that's seeking to get to 100% carbon free electric power for the city of Pasadena by 2030 so thanks the room the previous panel was sort of a wash in irony as we listened to utility executives talk about how important rooftop solar was distributed energy resources and how they're going to be there to build a stronger grid and create more infrastructure that they get to charge us for but unfortunately I didn't get to challenge them directly they're just hypocritical type of positioning on the matter but I'm really interested in your perspectives from a policy and legislative perspective in terms of what was going on there I know you're probably acutely aware of the politics how should this room process that it looks like rooftop solar has been gutted by those utilities with the net energy metering policies so what are your thoughts? quick perspective on that and I don't think it's something the legislature actually wrestled with so directly it's an example where you set some general direction and you say come up with just unreasonable rates and rethink this stuff and kick it to the PUC and their job is to be apparently conservative and the most rate protective they can be so they think that they're saving the grid money and you know the fallout that we're going to see though from whatever this quote-unquote market correction is is going to have very human impacts and I don't think they've thought that through and I think it's a messy messy plan right now at best and it's going to hurt people at worst so I think we got challenges but I would say to you in Pasadena though in your own backyard tough calls to be made right so you got big gas plants in your backyard when you're trying to convince your local municipal utility hey come with us here and you go to them with just distributed generation they're going to say well that doesn't meet that 500 megawatts we need at net peak hour so how to win in those conversations and you know win out with those those you feel that are entrenched within the utility world and do the math in a way that you can win even in those municipal energy making decisions I don't know it'll make or break whether that those plants get extended forever I don't know what you guys are going to do but keep at it please we need you down there any thoughts on that no cover it we'll take one more last question over there Tim Hayd from Scale Microgrid so I want to follow up on the implementation question and I think anyone who does this in the state of California knows that the regulatory environment is a bottleneck every time I talk to anyone at the CPUC they say basically like we're overwhelmed right so we're not only in charge of the energy transition but we're in charge of water and ride sharing and autonomous vehicles and all these other things so what's happening in Sacramento to make sure the CPUC has the resources they need to effectively regulate this so we don't run into some of these issues moving forward Senator Becker you want to take a shot you know it's a good question first I want to say because we're going to run out of time and we have to be in Sacramento to vote very shortly so we have to be out on the road 1130 so I'm Josh Becker at scn.ca.gov Henry's Henry Stern scn.ca.gov please reach out to us after this is bill introduction that's really us by the way that's really I email him there yeah other stuff that doesn't get but we're looking at all these issues looking at the transmission looking at a thermal heat and industrial and over the fence rule there's all stuff we're looking at right now tough question answer actually I think Senator Stern might have a better answer I mean it's frustrating for us as well when we have stuff that gets bottlenecked by the PUC and I'm not sure I have great answers I don't I mean I'm the I wrote the microgrid bill whatever five six years ago I've been sitting here waiting waiting waiting waiting and I'm just one legislator I'm not in an entire multi-billion dollar market and people whose power keeps getting shut off every time it's windy and suddenly they can't get their oxygenator to work because their systems not on or the fire station loses power or people's houses burned down so it's like real I'm really frustrated I don't think it's just a capacity thing I do think at some point it's a it's a leadership call and it's about who's appointed and sort of the direction the first question that Arun teed up which is if you're the governor or a leader in this state and you have to balance these issues there's I think there's an inherent judgment in there that like we can't afford we still haven't won that economic argument that this is going to make the grid stronger and at a cheaper rate than otherwise before and I think the same thing with net metering I think the same thing with a lot of you know when we fired up the gas fleet or Diablo like it gets real and it's hard to be a governor and that's who's sort of one step above that PUC and so if we can get it to make those transitions feel safe reliable and affordable and win that it'll be sort of self-fulfilling I think if we can pull it off here we actually will save the world so don't don't dismay don't lose hope on it it's like when we crack these nuts like when we do it it will change everything Senator Stern, Senator Becker thank you for your service thank you let's give them a big round of applause