 Don Wells is in the news again. He's written an open letter to the people he believes kidnapped his daughter, Summer. There are a lot of questions still up in the air, as well as accusations. So let's take another look at some of the behavior breakdowns we did on Don and the comments. Let us know what you think. Okay, you ready? Here we go. I can't imagine how you've been feeling me the past couple of days. It's been rough. Resurrection. I've never seen so many Christians in one place in my life. That's pretty awesome to see that. I just hope God and His mercies will deliver somewhere home to us. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so interesting in terms of the, I guess, content of what he talks about, you know, I can't imagine how you're feeling and he defers to society, religion and God. So interesting, deferral. I'm not sure really what it says, but it isn't necessarily talking about his specific feelings, though it could be an element of, I guess, feeling supported by society, by the religion, by the God involved. Anyway, with sound off on the whole, very comforting gestures around the sun. So that felt good to me. Downward inflections in the voice when you've got the sound on. That sounds assured. So comfort assurance. His weight is forward as well. So that seems like he's kind of leaning into the story. He wants to deliver information to us. Tongue grooming beforehand. I'll just say now that I see that throughout. I think that's a consistent kind of preparation before he speaks, though I'm open to other views on that. For me, it seemed like a baseline preparation that he always does. Boy's head is hung. Is that shame? Is that grief? Is it just the sunlight? They're facing into the sun at the moment. Not sure at this point. But anyway, that's what I've got as a first off on this first piece here. Chase, what have you got for us? Yeah, agree with you, Mark. And this is a clip where we're not seeing much emotion. We're not seeing a lot of anger, sadness, stress, or anything else. And just you watching this as an interesting data point for you as a panelist is that the reporter didn't ask a question. The reporter used what's called a provocative statement. And this is part of a elicitation that people in the intelligence community get trained on. As far as I know, this is the first thing you learn when you learn about getting information out of people. And I think the reason that this unrehearsed statement about resurrection really came up is because no question was asked. And in the intelligence community, they have a saying that says, the more sensitive the information you need, the less questions you should be asking. So the more we want to default to elicitation. And I think that's why this came out. I think it's also interesting that he defaults to saying, we believe in the resurrection which suggests or denotes that he has either made the decision that she's not coming back or she's dead or that he's just already aware of it. And I think it's interesting with his son there beside him that I think they're providing each other equal amounts of comfort. I think the son is also become a pacifier for him. And you see in his high stress moments, he increases the physical contact and movement on the son, kind of reassuring him, pulling him in a little bit closer. Not a whole lot of certainty here about what this means yet. So this is just the first video. We'll get to the next one, Scott. All right. Usually when somebody goes straight to religion right out of the gate, that's a red flag for me. I believe in the resurrection. I've never seen so many Christians in one place in my life. But in this case, I think it's a little bit different. I think in this situation, this guy probably hasn't done a lot of public speaking. Probably doesn't know what to say. So I think maybe out of nervousness, he goes right to that. Now, his background is a little bit sketchy as far as getting in trouble for things. So he's been, he's gotten a little bit of trouble before. So that may be something to help shine him up, make him look good, help spiff him up a little bit for people watching. Oh, he's a good guy, just in case. And I agree, Chase, he's used that little boy as an adapter, you know, holding on to him. But I think they both are because it's a, it's a trying time. I'm not seeing a whole lot of grief here. Not seeing tons of it anyway. You can tell the guy's not, he's, he's, he's down, but those are more sleepy movements. He looks tired really more than anything to me in this case. His blink rate is through the roof. So that's, it could be a tick. Sometimes it's high and sometimes it's not. So it could be that he's nervous. It could be one of the first, when the first interview starts, it might be one of his first ones. I don't know if they may be a little bit nervous about that. And when we look at these non-verbals as well, culture is going to play a huge part in this. The way they act, the way they stand, the way they deliver the information that they're going to give us. So keep that in mind as we go through and I'll point out some other things to let you know that. His voice is fairly monotone as well. We know, you know, we believe in resurrection. Never seen so many Christians in one place in my life. And let's start paying attention to how many times he says and and so. Because we see that pop up at some key points over and over and over and over and over and some of this. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So if I start off, I'm going to say that your experience colors who you are and how you respond. I always say that organism does what the organism does. If you've been in trouble with the law, if you've got drama in your house, if you've been arrested a few months ago for domestic things, you're going to feel uncomfortable in front of a camera and under scrutiny. Doesn't mean that you did something to your child. It simply means that you got baggage associated with that. Number one, number two, he comes out of the gate immediately with religion, but he doesn't say as God is my witness. He says we believe in the resurrection. That automatically makes you think that he assumes the girl's dead, but there could be another reason. And guys, I'm not making an excuse. I'm just going to tell you why that could happen. If you've converted to a religion, Maslow's hierarchy among people who have the same religion is saying the same things. And he probably rarely speaks outside of church. I saw the other day he's in his seventh day of Vendist, and he was up talking in front of the church. So it's probably a standard line he does every time he stands in front of people. And maybe a catchphrase, not literally a catchphrase only, but a way that makes him more comfortable. At the same time, he's gripping that little kid's shoulder and the kid is getting comfort too. But at one point he's gripping the kid's shoulder and the kid looks up and I'm like, Hey, that's a little tight. So it's just, it's an adapter as you guys have already said. In terms of sadness, you know, I always talk about this muscle and refer to this as a grief muscle, but it really isn't a single muscle. What's happening there with people is all these muscles, and I won't ever remember the name of them except for the big ones. But as these muscles, as you feel sad or sorrow, that internal part of the brow rises, the other brow comes down. And then as that's happening, most of us, when we're sad, our brow rises. And this is fighting that is how you get a little arch there. It's a bunch of muscles involved that causes that look. What you need to be paying attention to when someone, just read a study yesterday from 2012 and we'll put it down below. But they said that the frontalis muscle blowing out the grief, all those grief lines is the best indicator of deception that most people can notice. So when the person's doing what I call requests for approval instead of that, it shows something. So here you see a little bit of an arch, but not much, but you do see that sadness you see his eyebrows lifted up. And the indicators of grief or sadness are that arch, the brows lifted and the corners of the mouth down. He has facial hair, but look at the corners of his mouth. They're drawn. He has some tears in his eyes or sweat. Hard to tell. It is hot. It is Tennessee this time of the year. He doesn't stance. He doesn't take high ground. He simply uses that religion piece. And he is adapting. We typically would say those are red flags and the flash, the blink flash, the blink rate goes through the roof. So I'd pay attention. Those things make me wonder if he knows something, but we'll go through this as we go. Remembering that it's, I'll show you one really good indicator that's hard to fake. It's really hard to fake this up and your lids down unless you're sad. Your lids down and your brow up that way usually indicates somebody's sad. This going to immediately to worst case makes us all feel like he knows the girl's dead. But if you have been in prison a few times, if you've been in trouble and things typically go badly for you, you might assume that they're all going to go bad for you. So try to read what a person's been through and that gives you the next piece. That's what I got. Excellent. I can't imagine how you've been feeling the past couple of days. It's been rough, but we know, you know, we believe in resurrection. Never seen so many Christians in one place in my life, like I said. That's pretty awesome to see that. I just hope God in his mercies will deliver somewhere home to us. Let's move on home. Not knowing what happened to you, do you kind of a gut feeling about it? Do you have any kind of instinct feeling about it? I wish I did. Some bad person out here, but we have no idea that the FBI and the police have covered every single base and everything that anybody can think of that covered. Okay, I'll go first on this one. This is the first one where I said, wait a minute, something's not right here. Bunch of red flags up in this one. It's fairly short. There's a lot going on. I won't suck up everything, don't worry you guys. The first thing right out of the gate on this one, do you have a gut feeling about what you think about what might happen? No, it sure don't. Somebody bad must have taken her. You know, he said, I wish I did. Somebody bad grabbed her. I wish I did. Some bad person out here, but we have no idea that his cadence is slow. It doesn't show a whole lot of stress in his voice, but man, he's moving around a lot. He's squishing back and forth, moving around that arm gets that thing to go in. This is the first time he's really been lit up. Greg, what do you got? So I see internal conversation and distraction about what don't know. In the very beginning, he's got something going on where he's almost not engaged. Is it the last question? Not really sure, but he's got some internal thing going on. I do see that same, you know, lilted eyebrows up in the front. And when he's talking, I don't see this request for approval like, hey, believe me, don't use. Do I see red flags? Absolutely. When I see his brilliant rates go up and his respiration increase and that kind of thing, I see red flags and it makes me want to poke on him. First time I saw this video, my first thing was he knows something. Now, again, there's lots of reasons. We say this about people all the time. There's lots of reasons why you can feel away and increase. This only gives us the next question. And to your point, Chase, if I were the reporter standing there, I might go and poke and say, what makes you think it's somebody or go down that path? We can't do that. We're not controlling it. We're seeing what we see here. And I would then want to ask another question is what I'm seeing. Chase, what do you got? I would do much the same and I would probably throw in a lot of elicitation there. Just to make sure that fans out, that answer just turns into a fan. And elicitation is great for that. I think you covered the stress and you covered him becoming more illustrated. And I think it's interesting that he's becoming more illustrated telling people or wanting people to think that everything's already been done. And I would say this is a red flag because on a continuum of like, I want everyone to help me or I want people to think that this case is unsolvable. He's all the way on the other side where he's communicating that everything's already been done and there's no requests. There's no saying we're running down leads. We're, he's saying we've done everything already. It's all been done. I think it's unusual communication from somebody missing their child. But I don't think it's necessarily deceptive. Mark? Yeah. So again, three for three, we get the tongue action before he starts to speak. I see what you're saying there, Chase. Let's not discount it ever. But three for three, he always seems to start with that. But let's not discount it. You're right. This is not, and come back at me on this, Chase. This is not a case of a missing perpetrator anymore because a perpetrator has been, has been, you know, it's some bad person and has grabbed her. So there is a good strong theory about the type of person and some of the action involved. So this is better off than what we often get, which is just perpetrator, you know, that no idea, not even mentioned, and there's no idea. However, everybody's right here that it is running. It's suggested that they're running out of leads, running out of places to go. And the story is now has a sense of hopelessness to it. As the story builds, it runs out of places to go. And I believe we see his emotion build around that. And we do start to hear some difference in the voice, some action in the eyes there around distress, sadness. Now, I think there are all kinds of reasons why there might be some incongruence in the stories or just juxtapositions around that. But certainly this is possibly one of the most interesting elements of the story that we've seen so far because there is some difference between him going. I have no idea, here's what we're looking for. Here's who I actually think it is. Anyway, I'll leave it at that. And just for one second, I think, and guys, again, we're going to say this 100 times. Body language is not magical. We're not mind readers. Lots of reasons you might ramp up your heart rate and that when you're thinking about a child and somebody says, who do you think took her? Or what do you think happened? And you say, we think somebody took her. Maybe it is what they think. And that might cause your respiration to go up too. So what we want you to do is to notice that every time we're looking for what should happen next and how this should tie together, what does the communication look like and how does this story come out? I think that's the big piece here. I'm not knowing what happened to you and you kind of a gut feeling about it. Do you have any kind of instinct feeling about it? I wish I did. Some bad person grab here, but we have no idea that the FBI and the police have covered every single base, everything that anybody can think of that covered. Okay. Be good? Yeah. And he starts, you know, coming up with excuses why he can't make it to work and stuff and giving me trouble. And then the day I fired him, he was, you know, doing a pan like that there, okay? And he spent probably two hours on it. Well, he sort of took 20 minutes to coat that with mud, first coat, and we were supposed to do something else. And he just jumped on that and he was speaking under his breath and just carrying on. And then he comes to me with a pan of mud and he says, there's a whole kind of trash in there and get it out of there and give me some different mud. So I was like, I'm all right, okay. I threw it away and got him some fresh mud and he come back at me again. He's like, screaming at me. You know, I told you, did you put it back in there or what? And you're familiar with that kind of behavior for somebody I don't like. It didn't seem like that was the kind of behavior. Well, I looked on YouTube of all the behavior that somebody on meth would have. You know, the only thing I can remember is hyperactive. Sure. But yeah. But he was screaming at me. You know, just go home. I'll take care of this job. I got this job. I'll handle it by myself or whatever. When I thought about that and I went to lunch. I'm going to come back. I don't believe you get off the job. Don't want to work with you one more second. And he didn't like that too well. All right. Chase, what do you got? So right here, he goes to about noon or one o'clock if we're looking at him with his eyes while he's talking about watching this YouTube video. This is a very vital data point for any interrogator. Not that I'm relying on some chart from 1970 of where the eyes move and what it means. I'm relying on what I just observed. He was recalling looking at something and that's where his eyes go. I'm going to make a note of that. And if I'm asking him to describe something visual or something where he has to recall visual data in the future and I see somewhere different and I see him and it could be a guilt question that he looks a different direction. That is a huge red flag for me. There's equal eye contact to both Greg and Scott during his entire answers. There's a wonderful establishment of some form of baseline here. And he demonstrates a lot of comfort with his body illustration. He's showing stuff with his body. He's showing this thing, this drywall pan and pointing it up in the room that you guys were in. He's showing the bucket with the mud in it and talking about when he threw it away. And he shakes his head while he's speaking about things that he's disagreeing about. So he's saying this guy was speaking under his breath and carrying on and he's shaking his head during that. And then he's nodding while speaking about something that he took a stand against this guy which is a wonderful piece of baseline. He's nodding during positive things and when he wants you to agree, he's shaking his head during things where he's disagreeing or in some kind of disagreement with what he's speaking about. I'll leave it at that. Greg? Yeah, this guy's telling a story and he's illustrating. This is, I'm going to guess if you're his friend and you're hanging out with him, well, we know that if we've talked to him twice and we know that this guy has a storytelling kind of a personality, he's using references that pan right there. He's giving you a reference. He's telling a story using his hands. He's illustrating these things that punctuate your words or thoughts. He's moving his hands to make points. He's making things bigger or smaller. He's using a lot of words that we don't hear him use in other cases. He does some downright eye access and when he's talking about the guy, Chase is talking about up left as he's speaking about something he visually remembers and then he does some downright which we typically associate with emotion. So he's thinking as he's telling the story and he's giving out information. The cadence of his speech is a little more lilting as he's telling the story and telling you something and giving you a frame of reference for one of these guys. I told Scott it's a little bit like ghost stories when he's telling you all these different people he thinks may have done something because he's trying to give you his thoughts and illustrate it with enough words to make it fit. Now, when we start asking questions about the story, Candice's story, if he doesn't have that same level of detail it's going to automatically make people jump to red flags. If it's secondhand story, it'll be a different way of telling but this is him telling something that happened to him and I believe it happened to him. It's easy to follow his baseline. Scott, what do you got? Yes, he was fairly comfortable talking about this. His illustrators were open. He was very fluid with this. He was loping as he talked and loping as we just kind of go right along and everything sounds just fine, sounds the way it should. No deception in here anywhere, no need to be for any deception in here. Everything looked the way it should look. Everything sounded the way it should sound and we weren't getting any pushback from him on this kind of thing. Obviously for this we wouldn't but as he went into details of stuff, again great for baseline as he starts telling about things he's experienced and is giving us that information because I don't think he's told anybody for the first time the things he found on the internet about drug use. I don't think that would be new to him. So that was the only part where I know I did and I'm pretty sure Greg did too or like you're telling us about that and where he may have in his past have experienced those things. I don't know how to word it differently. I can be completely wrong, don't know but that's the only one I made sure to pay attention to so I could know if that came up again in a situation I would recognize those cues as we went through. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so absolutely right, couldn't agree more. He's creating a story here. You've got all the elements of the story does it really well. He describes it spatially. He takes on the characters. He does the voices. He does the emotions. So a great baseline as to what he'll do if he's really engaged with a story and he wants to engage you. I think he does the YouTube piece about the meth head because he wants to cast that character as the meth head and so he goes, look, you know, authority of YouTube data point of one that'll be our meth head in the story. So I think that's what he's kind of doing there. I think what this says to me is so he says there's an upward inflection right at the start here. I think he wants us to approve of how he handles this situation and then he describes the situation and this is really Don's in my mind soap opera world because he quickly gets into this drama that is probably interesting if you're part of it and if you're outside of that, you might well go, what's this got to do with anything that's going on here? But it is easy to get dragged in, isn't it? It's easy to get dragged in and go, okay, there's a meth head involved, is there? Bit of violence going on and he's pretty good at doing, you know, that it was getting quite aggressive because he rubs his nose there. I think that's because he's actually getting heated himself. You'll often see people do that when they're getting aggressive because blood will rush to the nose. So I think he easily draws us, probably unconsciously, into this soap opera world that he's got of drama going on and to an extent we need to resist that a little bit because again, we might end up getting dragged down exactly the wrong narrative here and we've got to keep open to where the real facts might be or the real information might be as to what's happening with summer. There, that's all I got for you. Okay, and he starts, you know, coming up with excuses why he can't make it to work and stuff and giving me trouble and then the day I fired him, he was, you know, doing a pan like that there, okay? And he spent probably two hours on it. Well, it just sort of took 20 minutes to coat that with mud, first coat. We were supposed to do something else and he just jumped on that and he was speaking under his breath and just carrying on and then he comes to me with a pan of mud and he says, there's a whole kind of traction and I get it out there and you give me some different mud. So I was like, I'm okay. I threw it away. I got him some fresh mud and he come back at me again. He's like screaming at me I told you, did you put it back in there or what? You're familiar with that kind of behavior for something like that. I didn't seem like that kind of behavior. Well, I looked on YouTube of all the behavior that somebody on meth would have. Only thing I can remember is hyperactive. Sure. But yeah, but he was screaming at me, you know, just go home. I'll take care of this job. I got this job. I'll handle it by myself or whatever when I thought about that. And I went to lunch when I come back and I told him to leave and get off the job. Don't want to work with you one more second. And he didn't like that too well. You've got some past. You said recently you've had some drug and alcohol things maybe. Have you, who in your life would you think is less than above board that you deal with? Who in life has been above board? Yeah. Who's less than above board? Have you ever seen it? Oh, not nobody that I know of except for our neighbors and stuff. You know what I mean? The meth is and stuff like that. And whatever like that. And we're trying to fly right. And we're trying to do the right way. Life is, I would say life is a challenge between being this and what is underneath. Okay. And let me back up for a minute with the stepsisters. They said they never knew we had a daughter. Two and a half, three years ago, I called my dad and they were there. And they were bragging. You know, they was asking about summer. Like, yeah, yeah, you know. And so they said they named one of theirs, Winter. So they knew they lied when they said they didn't know. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So in this case, we're asking him just some simple questions. Now I just lost my thought. Sorry. Hit that again. I've lost it entirely. That's something else. Let me edit that out. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I may have to watch it again. Which one was two? Oh yeah. Who's above board? Here we go. There's some comedy for you. So who's less than above board? You see him. He's like, what are you talking? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. And he does recognition. And he says in his eyes, Locke, as he's saying this, we try to stay above board. Now I know, and he said, you know, I've used drugs. I've done this. I've done that. So he knows some people that are less than above board by my standards. He's probably interpreting what I'm saying. And so you see him making eye contact. And then he goes back to get out one of the stories that he came there to tell. Because clearly Don had stories he wanted to tell. These are the ghost stories I was talking about. He's going to tell you these stories. So he brings up the stepsisters. And you can see it. You can see a change in his code, in his cadence. He starts off when he's trying to figure out what I'm talking about. Stammering and stuttering and a little slow. Then makes good eye contact. Oh, yeah, we try to stay above board. And then goes back into a storytelling mode. That's what I saw. And I just kind of discounted the sister's thing as just something he needed to get out. And that was that. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I would agree completely. Again, you've got to be careful you don't get stuck in his soap opera. Because this really is a piece of storytelling here. It's a classic. So you've got stepsisters. So that instantly tells you that they're going to be cast in the bad light. You're going to have a Cinderella character, the symbol of virtue unrecognized, which is the dirty little wave in that summer. And you're going to have territorial aggression. So you've got fighting over the crown, which is the summer and winter battle that he talks about there. So there's some classics in there of a really good soap opera narrative of family breakdowns and territorial aggression. And so it looks a little bit like a side step into that narrative. But I think you're right, Greg. This is a story that he wants to get out. He wants to play that narrative game, that YouTube game, as much as anybody else that he sees himself as battling against. That if they're going to make up a story, then I reckon I can tell a good story as well. And I would say it's a classic example because he draws down on a universal narrative instantly. If it were a truer story, there'd be more detail and it wouldn't fit so well that universal narrative. So he just draws down on the classic. And just one last thing is he does that same kind of head turn away and locks eye contact with a challenge gesture there to Greg on this. Same as he did with, I think, how do you get to your house? So when he gets confused or maybe more likely is worried about the nature of the question. And what is this question really about? We see the aggression come out here. And he wants to sidestep this idea of who he's connected with that don't fly right. So an interesting theme that carries on there. He wants to completely take himself away from the names of the people that call by who don't fly right. There. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right. This is a really interesting one because as we're going through it and he's from the beginning of this, we started talking to him. He suspects everybody. That's why he's bringing up all these parts by stepsisters and people from YouTube and this and that. He suspects everybody. I mean, Greg, I don't know how many people. I think I counted up to 12 at one point. He was talking about and talked to him the other day and he was suspected. The guys who came and were, you know, didn't suspect him. But he said, hey, what about these guys that were cutting down the trees in my yard? Could that be the kind of, I'm wondering if that would be? So he's got all these things that say he's concerned and really wondering who did this. That's one thing that stood out to us as we went through this. And so that's the reason he's poking on those stepsisters. He said some bad stuff about him, whether it's true or not, I have an earthly idea. But apparently it's been recanted what they said. So probably not true. Don't know that to be fact. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what he told me anyway. So yeah, so as he's going through this, it's really, for me, it's really simple. He doesn't know exactly where we're going in this yet. I mean, he's got a pretty good idea. But when we start asking questions like this that he's not ready for, why would you ever ask something like that? But he starts associating himself. He's using what's called, it's the same language addicts use. Here, Peter Hyatt talking about that, how people who are addicts will talk that way as well about we try to stay away from what I try to do this. It's like we, as a group, try to stay away from those kind of people. That's where I'll stop there to keep short. Chase, what do you got? One thing, we're just talking about the we thing here. Don is, if we divide people into using three types of pronouns in their communication. There are people that use self pronouns, team pronouns, and then others in reference to other people. And Don uses a whole lot of team pronouns, even talking about the church. Our Sunday school, we like to do this. We like to do this. Always speaking about he and Candace as our us we. Which I think is a pretty good sign for how he feels about his connection to her at the time that he was answering those questions. And right at the beginning of this clip here, you're going to see him close his eyes almost all the way for a minute to process this question and process the data. So he's really going through his mind. He is honest, I think, about trying to fly right. I think he's 100% honest. But what we don't know is his definition and his relationship to the words fly right, his relationship to the idea of what that means to him. There's this head nodding that we're seeing here is honest. There's comfortable cadence that he's loping here. He's on message. So whether or not this is rehearsed does not make it deception. We can rehearse true things all day long. It's like our YouTube intros. They're truthful and very, very rehearsed. So he's shaking his head exactly at the point that he's discussing the denial of someone else. So I think this is on message is truthful and in an interrogation scenario, and maybe in a regular conversation, this may come in handy. But if someone tries to do this big redirection, I'm going to treat this like when he's backing up to talk about his sisters. I will treat that as a denial and I will stop it using the same process. I'll put my hand up and say, Don, I know that's very important to you and I promise we're going to get to that in just a minute and go right back to what we were talking about. The reason I think, I can't speak for him, Scott and Greg did this, is because this is not an interrogation. He's not captive and he can walk out of that room at any time and they're not there to get a confession to a crime per se. They're there to collect data and they're specifically there to collect a whole lot of data as much as possible that can be analyzed at a later date like we're doing right now. Yeah, I would have been impressed if we got a confession out of a guy in a holiday and conference room. Yeah, yeah, we knew that. That's what it was, too. Yeah, that's what it was, guys. We knew there was little chance anybody was going, well, and we didn't know Don from Adam. I mean, we'd seen him on TV and that. Yeah. But it doesn't matter the fact that most people are not going to confess. I think Dr. Phil said people don't confess in a crowd, the same mindset, right? That's the way you got to look at it. You've got some past. You said recently you've had some drug and alcohol things, maybe. Have you, who in your life would you think is less than above board that you deal with? Who in life has been above board? Yeah, who's less than above board? Have you ever heard of saying? Oh, nobody that I know of except for our neighbors and stuff like that. And whatever like that. I mean, we're trying to fly right. And we're trying to do the right thing. I get it, man. Life is a challenge between being this and what is underneath. OK. And let me back up for a minute with the stepsisters. They said they never knew we had a daughter. Two and a half, three years ago, I called my dad and they were there. And they were bragging. You know, they was asking about summer. And I was like, yeah, yeah, you know. And so they said they named one of theirs, Winter. So they knew they lied when they said they didn't know. Yeah. Are they asking anything of you other than just people that you might suspect or situations you might suspect? Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, I'm at work all the time. Candice was on one side of the house when she got gone. You know, not even 50, 60 feet away. We know she wouldn't leave the property. There's no way she would do that. All right, Greg, what do you got? So he starts off with what we typically call a resume statement. He's going to say, look, I'm always working. I'm always away. And but his hands, if you notice, when he does talk about always being away, he drops his hand and slaps his leg. It's kind of a helpless movement. He's saying we did our best. He has, he said, look, she was only 60 feet away, shaking his head. He's looking like I have nothing left to give you and his elbow is away from his body. Those are all good signs. A resume statement, we might think of as a red flag to say he's doing this. And for a little levity, if you'll notice, Kevin Williams shows up at 10 seconds and leaves at 13. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, nice. Well done. Yeah, you know, I'm the same. There's kind of almost an alibi put in there. You know, I got nothing more to give you because I'm at work all the time. I don't think it is him trying to lay down an alibi. I think it really is him going. I wish I had more for you. I think what we're seeing here is disbelief, confusion at the situation. I think you're right, Greg. That's what that hand slap on the thigh is about. It's that finality of that's all the information that I have. You know, unfortunately, I wasn't there. I wish I had more information. You know, Candice was 50, 60 feet away. That's all the information that she has. His direction illustrators are congruent around that. Again, the geography works around that. Again, four for four lips licking before he begins speaking. Again, yeah, I'm seeing a lot of congruence, a lot of fact in his mind around what he's saying. Chase, what do you got? Absolutely agree. And I definitely agree with the lip licking. So we're starting to see this is a normal thing. So it's losing power as we start moving forward. And I think when he says, unfortunately, I'm at work all the time, what makes this really truthful and different than when other people have alibis is that he doesn't focus his statement on the day it happened. I mean, unfortunately, I'm at work all the time. He doesn't say that day I went to work at 3.15. I didn't come home till 6.50 p.m. that evening. So I'm at work all the time. Makes it more likely to be a truthful statement. That's something we're more likely to see when we're looking at truthful videos. I mean, unfortunately, I'm at work all the time. And I think it was extremely unusual when he said, when she got gone. Candice was on one side of the house when she got gone. I think that may be a cultural thing, maybe something out there. But I also think that he didn't like his job very much. We see what's called, from just a behavior perspective, it's not relevant to the case. But we see his elbow move out when he says I'm at work all the time. We see that little, that's indicative of disagreement. A lot of times that's one of the first things I teach HR managers to look for in job interviews. When they're interviewing people for a job. And when he says there is no way she would leave the property, I think the kid disagrees with that. I think his son disagrees. And I think we can see him break eye contact and his head goes straight down to the ground the moment he says it. Scott, what do you got? All right. I agree with a lot of that. A couple of things, but the got gone is very common in Southern phrase. That's Southern Arkansas in phrase, however you'd say it, Chase, but in Tennessee, it's very common up the map. South Georgia too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very common phrase. This up to this point, the video we saw before this, a lot of movement going on, but even more here. And I think he's, I think you're correct about that as well. I think he's just about fed up with this. That's what that hand slap means. He just, he doesn't know where to go with it from there. I don't think he knows where to go with it. His cadence more than doubles again here. He's a speed ride along. He's already talked about where he was that day so many times. He's just getting right through it. But I think he's, I think we're seeing frustration here. That's one of the, one of the main things we're seeing. And I think it's the son getting in that little kid's face, plus the fact he's not around a bunch of adults all the time. And I think those news people are looking at him. And when he catches his eyes with them, I think that's why he's breaking eye contact. I could be wrong about that, but I think I watched that from the beginning. Every time he looks up and you can tell, because he just doesn't look down, his whole body kind of scooches down. I could be wrong about that because I, you know, we're on the other side of the camera. Are they asking anything of you other than just people that you might suspect or, you know, situations you might suspect? Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I'm at work all the time. You know, Candice was on one side of the house when she got gone. That, you know, not even, you know, 50, 60 feet away. We know she wouldn't leave the property. There's no way she would do that. Then instead of summer happened when summer disappeared. Where were you working then? See, I was at, I was in Jonesboro. Okay, okay. Yeah. Jonesboro, which? Yeah, Jonesboro. Tennessee? Yeah. Okay, because I don't know this area very well. Yeah. How far away is that from home? Well, it takes 45 minutes to get from there to my house. Okay. And I was 81 all the way, and that's where I was working. All right, Chase, what do you got? So I think there's a loping that's ever present through a lot of these things. Greg, right here, is probing for some more baseline and making a couple of admissions that, you know, I'm not from here. I don't know the area very well, which helps the other person to open up more. And this actually works. And his baseline is usually different when he's asking someone different types of questions. So we're going to see his eyes move different ways. We're going to see him react different ways to something called the eyes. Something called episodic memory of events and things that he recalls. And next is spatial and detail memory. So we're thinking about spatial and detail memory. This is like, what did the room look like? How big was something? And finally, we're going to see a different behavioral reaction when he's discussing a memory of dialogue and when he spoke to a person. That may not be all the categories. This is the big three that we can actually pinpoint and look for here pretty easily. Greg and Scott left the silence there for him to keep talking and it actually worked. And up 81 all the way. And that's where I was working. You can see how easy this is. Greg and Scott just didn't say, okay, as soon as he became a little bit close to being finished, he continued to speak when he says, up 81, and that's where I was working. He continued to talk to fill in the silence, which is great. And we're looking at both of you guys and your quarter zip fleece that had to be planned. I'm watching this video wondering about the planning for that. But Scott, I'll pass it to you. Yeah, we didn't want to go in and match like we're twinsies. But it was important to at least have a look that from the top part you had this, but the bottom part, you had jeans that were a little bit old and a little bit and Greg had on his cowboy boots and had on sneakers. So we didn't want to look like we're, you know, FBI evens coming in in suits and like, hey, tell me what's going on. He's been dealing with all that. Of course. So we wanted to be kind of, so yeah, that's really good, Chase. I wanted to bring you up just so people would understand why that was important and you look unified as if you're on a team together. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. We're okay. Well, we'll talk about that later. Anyway, where was my point? Oh yeah. So as, and again, talking about the interrogation part of listen to Greg's tone of voice, it's real soft and it's, and it's odd for us to see Greg being all calm and soft about something for a lot of people anyway, not me. And to be so kind as he's saying all these things, especially on somebody in that situation. So pay attention to our approach to these. The way we're talking, you'll see our tone, our tones of voice, however you say it grammatically correct, change as we go throughout this. And our body language will change as well. Right now we're being very still. We're getting things really, really quiet. The lighting guys did a great job in there because they made it almost feel like a room in there of darkness around this light thing. The stuff we're looking at now will have to be brightened up a little bit because the, this edit of it is too dark. But we're trying to, we're taking advantage of that. It was really quiet in there. It was a really big room, but it was really small right there. So it gave us that intimate feel with him. And we were just close enough to reach out and touch him. That's what you want to be close enough to do that. Whereas we had, that happened a couple of times in emotional parts of the interview. So our approach to it, I'll talk about that on this end of it, was at this point to be really calm and understanding with him as we're trying to find out this information. Not only because we're trying to get him a certain move, we want to see how he reacts to those questions in that mode as well, in that mode that we're in as well. So that's, that was really important. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So one thing, I'm talking softer here. You'll notice because I'm trying to bring him down to a different place and I'm not trying to threaten everyone. Everyone thinks I'm this mean scream and yell guy. And we always say, if you're being interrogated that way, you're really not, no one's effective doing that. You should not even realize you're being interrogated. As a matter of fact, the guys with us thought, well, I wish you'd gotten what you wanted when it was over. And we said, oh, oh, trust us, we got what we wanted. Yeah, we got everything. Because it was just a conversation. But what I was after here is the first minor probe. This is a probe. Where were you? You know, he's been asked this question a dozen times, a thousand times. And as far as I know, TBI and those guys will have cleared his story and said, where is that? So I didn't push too hard to go and find that. But when he said, Jonesboro, his eye contact was really high. His blink rate goes way down, if you notice this, because he's certain of what he's saying. And then he makes intentional eye breaks occasionally. And he tells me about this 45 minutes. Now, here's something that tells me I have tapped into a part of his brain that knows I'm on a threat question. I hear him start to change his speech pattern. And he goes, and that's where I was. And to your point, Chase, he's trying to figure out what am I after? And he's trying to make sure he satisfies what I'm after. But that and-a, and-a, and-a in there proves to me I hit the right spot with him. And so we're in the right cadence, we're at the right speech pattern, we're at the right amount of eye contact, the right amount of silence. And you'll see us use this again as we get deeper into the questioning. We intentionally, I told him, they're going to be hard questions I'm going to ask you. And I'll tell you what I'm going to ask you, hard questions. And people say, well, you're telegraphing. Yeah, because it creates stress. And that's a wonderful thing to say, I'm about to ask you some hard questions. Well, what are you going to ask? And you can see it in people when you do it. But if you'll watch him, he's nodding to get agreement. And when he says I'm up 81 all the way, you just should know that when a person changes this way, it means you're tapping into something that's creating stress for them. And it's clear in his case. Mark, what do you get? Yeah, so it is a stress question. It is, where were you the night of? So it's one of the first questions that's going to come in, which has some heat behind it. And you might look at it and you might go, wow, there's a bit of a pause there and he doesn't seem to remember the name of the place. Or why doesn't that immediately come? Well, the things in his life don't immediately come. The numbers, the things don't immediately come. The space is there for him. He knows that really well. He doesn't access the names of things so well. There's a neural type that goes with that, but I'm not going to diagnose. And by the way, body language can often just be a Rorschach test of you. So I'm going to look at him and I'm going to most likely see me. And you're going to look at him and you're most likely going to see you. So what you've got to do is pick up on some of what I'm saying and go, so is Don more like Mark or is he more like me? Because I'm also going to engage my critical thinking as well and go, it feels like me. I bet he's a bit like me and he can't kind of work out the name of things, but what if that isn't true? Perhaps it's not true. So you've got to use his critical thinking ideas of perhaps and maybe. So here's one of those. We see him take a big in-breath on that. And this is a critical question there and his breathing changes there. Well, I already know this is a critical question. And so I'm already primed to go, oh, I want to check out his breathing. See if that breathing changes. Does he do big breathing, heavy breathing? And on a first glance, he does. But then I go back and look at the baseline and he doesn't. So you've got to keep going back and looking at the baseline. This is not really far enough off his baseline that I would suggest that he wasn't exactly where he says he was at this point. I think any disruption in this, any deviance from the baseline that we've got is about, this is a pressure question. This is an institutionalized guy. He knows that when the big questions come, you've got to be careful whatever. Whether you did it or you didn't do it, you've got to be careful. That's what I got for you on that one. Dennis, that was summer happened when summer disappeared. Where were you working then? See, I was at, I was in Jonesboro. Okay. Yeah. Jonesboro, which? Yeah, Jonesboro. Tennessee? Yeah. Okay. Because I don't know this area very well. Yeah. How far away is that from home? Well, it takes 45 minutes to get from there to my house. Okay. And up 81 all the way. And that's where I was working. And can you tell us a little bit, you know, what someone was doing that afternoon or that evening? She was planting flowers with her mother and her grandmother, and she wanted to go into the house. So my wife watched her go into the door and she went into the house and the boys were on the internet, of course, and she wanted to go downstairs and play with her toys. So when her mother come in, she says, we're summer, she went down to the basement. She didn't answer. So she went down there and she was gone. So she went out the basement door, which was unlocked, and we haven't seen her since. Greg, what do you got? One interesting thing throughout everything we're going to see this guy do is that he has the same cadence, almost exactly throughout every interview he's done, which is interesting for me because it makes me think, okay, that's kind of a baseline for him. Yeah, it's slow. It's drawing and that kind of thing, but that's how he speaks. In this storytelling, you cannot miss that he's storytelling because his cadence changes. If you pay attention, when he goes into storytelling mode and he said, I was not home when this happened. And then he starts down this third party story and you can tell he's repeating what he's been told. She was planting flowers with her mother and her grandmother and she wanted to go into the house. So my wife watched her go into the door and she went into the house and the boys were on the internet of course and she wanted to go downstairs and play with her toys. So when her mother come in, she says, we're summer. She went down to the basement. She didn't answer. So she went down there and she was gone. So she went out the basement door, which was unlocked and laid out her casino sales. That's all he's got. Not a single verbal bridge, not a, and then after that just walks through the details. And I'm having a hard time. I'm looking at him because his brow is up in the center. His mouth is down. His lids are low, but he's also out in the sun. So I'm not going to read everything into it. I am going to say he's gripping his kid. He's got that same thing where he's gripping him and he's adapting. If this were, he was home and he was telling me this story. I would probably call it a red flag because the cadence changes, but knowing that he's heard the second, third hand, so no big deal. However, it is with that and blink rates and all of that, we have to look for positives as well. He's illustrating with his right hand. I can't with his left hand, but he is illustrating the story with his right hand. And you see what Chase, I think you would call body narration when he's moving around a little bit as well, trying to get the message across. And then he does a sour taste, as you would say, Mark, it's hard to tell with all the facial hair. He does a sour taste and shakes his head like this when he's saying she was gone. And so you would expect that's negative and negative. And a lot of people would say shaking his head. No, when he's telling you something that doesn't mean, that means that it's a lie. We all know that's not the truth. We know that we're looking for it to match the message he's delivering. And Chase, I think you had a great one recently where the guy went like this for yes and like this for no. That's a big deal. But the guy's saying it was a bad thing and he does that. Then you expect it to be something different. Right. Mark, what do you get? Yeah, so I would say again, tongue grooming before speaking. So for me, I think that these little bits of tongue action that we see always before he speaks is just he always prepares like that. I don't think we're seeing any kind of preparation around potential deceit or anything that you might read on the internet about lip-licking or tongue-juts or whatever. I think again, it's kind of baseline for him. He'd probably do the same at church when he gets up to speak. The boys were on the internet, of course. The boys were on the internet, of course. Kind of interested by that. Is that about, you know, is that an alibi? Is that about, well, aren't they, you know, a sense of annoyance around kids always being on the internet? That, of course, is of interest. Why are you trying to point that out? So I'm keeping my eyes and ears open around that piece there. But on the whole, like, he's forward and agreeable. When I turn the sound off, you know, although we get some of these head shakes which are about very specific things, he's very forward. He's very agreeable. He's not displaying many of the things that we've seen in the past when we know or suspect that somebody is trying to hold back information. And especially in this case, I agree, Greg, he is taking us through the story that he's heard from his wife. And from what I've heard of her story, it really doesn't deviate from that at all, which makes me feel like he doesn't feel like he needs to add anything. He kind of thinks it's good as it is. It's good enough, that story, that does the job, whatever job that's meant to do, that does the job. He doesn't need to add anything. He doesn't need to take anything away from it. So it's, you know, it's pretty good at the moment. Chase, what have you got for us? Yeah, I agree with you guys. Absolutely here. And I will say that the lip-licking thing, I will always treat as a potential marker for deception until I see otherwise. And obviously it's just, it's going into a pile. We're not going to see it and say, none of us will ever tell you that one of these behaviors, it means that somebody's being deceptive. But once they get into a pile, they start to become a little more solid ground. So I would always suggest for any reporter that's interviewing these people, start your interview with some truthful questions. Where do you work? How long have you worked there? Tell us, you know, about, you know, what you like about doing what you do, or, you know, things that people are willing to talk about and get some baseline for people like us to help out. So let's go with some red flags. Since you guys are, let's go with some things that might suggest otherwise, the story is focused on innocence with the only a tiny mention of the disappearance. And there's no attempt whatsoever to get us how he feels. There's no emotion conveyed here at all. And also another failure to mention the name of the victim. And finally, one thing that almost universally people who are missing a child and go on TV do, they have zero problem, completely overtaking the interview and stomping all over the reporter's question to get out exactly what they want to get out. They do not answer questions as if they're trying to pass a test. And I think this is also one of those indicators. Maybe this should be one of our things on our checklist. But people who we've seen in the past who have these videos and they're genuine, they have no problem derailing the interview to talk about getting the child back. And there's no mention of getting Summer back in this video. Scott? All right. This gives me the feeling that he's told this a lot. He's heard this a lot. And it gives me the feeling he wasn't there at the beginning, which I believe we aren't in the impression he wasn't there from the information we got. The reason I think that is because his recall on this, like Greg was talking about, is great. She was planting flowers with her mother and her grandmother. And she wanted to go into the house. So my wife watched her go into the door and she went into the house and the boys were on the internet, of course. And she wanted to go downstairs and play with her toys. So when her mother come in, she says we're Summer. She went down in the basement. She didn't answer, so she went down there and she was gone. So she went out the basement door, which was unlocked and we've never seen her since. I mean, he's just, he's repeating, he's speeding right along and he's repeating the same story he's heard over and over and over for the past few days. He's heard his wife tell it a thousand times because they've been sitting there. Tell me again what happened. That's how you find those inconsistencies in a story that you can box him in with. You ask him the same thing. Not only do you ask him, somebody else will ask him and he's heard it a lot. So he's just cruising right there. That's why his arm is going in a circular motion. Almost like, well, here's what happened. Here's what happened. That's why I can speed through it like that. And he sort of keeps this mode happening. He's in listening mode and we know that because his head's still a little bit and that ear comes forward just a little bit and that lets you know someone is, that gives the impression someone is listening to you. And as he's going through this, he goes and, so, and this happened, then, and this happened. So they went in. That's another thing. These, these words that are linked, these conjunctions, linking these, linking these things together are just, there's information and information. A little break and. And she wanted to go into the house. So my wife watched her go into the door and she went into the house and the boys were on the Internet, of course. And she wanted to go downstairs and play with her toys. So he's going through and remember it in those, in those chunks like that. Not using any barriers. He doesn't look stressed. And the only really illustrator he's using is his arm when he's doing the little movement with his arm. I don't see him trying to, to, to block anything. I don't see him trying to hold back anything. I think he's given up. All he knows about this at this point. Again, let's pay attention to all the times he says and, and so as we run through this. All right. We good? Yeah. And can you tell us a little bit, you know, what someone was doing that afternoon or that evening? She was planting flowers with her mother and her grandmother. And she wanted to go into the house. So my wife watched her go into the door and she went into the house and the boys were on the internet, of course. And she wanted to go downstairs and play with her toys. So when her mother come in, she says, we're summer. She went down to the basement. She didn't answer. So she went down there and she was gone. So she went out the basement door, which was unlocked and we've never seen her since. Good. Let's move. Does there anything about Candice's story that makes you question the story? No, not the way it played out and everything like that. I mean, yeah, you always have questions and I asked myself and with the way that it happened and her emotions and her state of mind. Did you? What were the questions that you had? I mean, I don't really have any. I mean, I question, I don't really have any questions. I mean, Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So this is a really good example. I had a question. I asked the thought. I heard him stammer stutter. I had a follow up and I actually stepped on Scott because Scott was trying to get more information out of him here. If I'd been a little quieter, we would have gotten a little more information. But I think he was candidly. I think he's out of information. He was just stammering to stammer. This made me wonder, did he truly believe the story he'd been told? Because what he's telling us is a story that's second hand. And when he tells us a second hand story, it's rote memory. It's exactly what you expect from a second hand story. You'll see him push his tongue out of his lips. Now, his lips are bright, ruby red. And we think it's probably because he smokes a fair amount and that kind of thing. But he does lick his lips a lot on when he gets under the stressful situation. Mean something maybe, but it is in his baseline. As he's going along though, he cannot finish an entire thought. Now he is not the most eloquent speaker. And Don would tell you that himself. I'm not beating him up for the way he speaks because we all have our own patterns. I have my own very Southern speech pattern. But he stops and stammers. And I mean, I don't really have any questions. I mean, I'm sure. Number one, he's got to realize that Candice is going to watch this. Number two, how does it work their stories? So this is a stress moment. We're seeing something in him that causes both Scott and I to want to go, hmm, why can't he answer that question with a simple no? If you asked me if my wife did something, I would have said, no. Very simply, this is not a no. This is something much different. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, this is the point where we're both, I was waiting for Greg to jump up his hind end. And he was waiting for me to jump up his hind end. And but we knew better than that at that point. Because all I've got to do is get up and leave. If we if we leaned into him really hard at that point. And as the loping stops here, lopings, we're going to tell the story, almost like a something loping through a field, like a horse running through a field, that kind of thing. And we're not seeing that here. He's editing as he goes along. He's self editing in real time. Should I say this? What am I going to say? Then when he decides he didn't have any questions, when I said, well, what kind of questions did you have? And he didn't. And again, knows my tone of voice. And we're saying that because we know this is important. Because what kind of questions do you have? So we had to say, what kind of questions do you have? Almost almost like throwing it out there. And his and when he's answering as he self edits, he's he's thinking I've got to be cool about this because you're right, Greg. He's got to go home to his life and his wife and live there. And she's going to be like, well, you don't believe me. No, you're talking about you don't believe me. So he's got to deal with that. Knowing that as well, it was the reason for our soft approach. But it's really important in there because that's when you're right, Greg. That's when we both said, you know what? I'm not so sure he believes what she's saying. And this we expand on that at another point. But it this is really important part of because this is not in his baseline. This is completely out of his baseline. He's really quiet. His eyes, his blink rate goes low. He's looking. He is licking his lips. But I don't think that's pushing out, you know, sour taste and all that. I don't think that's that at all. I think it's from I think it's it's like a tick. I feel nervous. He has that's why his lips are so slick from smoking and doing that all the time. So I'm licking his lips all the time. I think that's what that's from. So they were not seeing any. I'm not going to say we're not seeing deception in there because it's seen a bunch of red flags. They're like four of them in a row right there. We start slowing down and he's editing. But that really was a point where I go. I'm not so sure he believes what he's saying. And as he's editing himself, I think he knows what he's going to say. But he's chopping it up and pushing things back into rows to make sure everything's straight. So he's good to go. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So here's what I think he does know. He says he doesn't have questions about how it played out, the physical time of the narrative, all the stuff that he's good at. He doesn't have any questions around how that story played out, the time span, the space. I don't think he's got a problem with that. It's got no questions around that. The emotions and the state of mind. Now, again, he's talked about emotions in his baseline and he's pretty good at going proud and naming emotions and happy. And those are pretty basic, but that's a good baseline to say. If he thinks he knows that somebody is emotionally in a state, he's already said that he's pretty good at that. He's proved that he's pretty good at that. So he's got no problem with that. He says you always have questions. So look, we could bias towards the idea of, yeah, maybe he does wonder is Candice's story correct, or maybe it's just the idea of, well, until you know something for sure, you always have questions. So there's the idea of mystery always exists, regardless until mystery is solved. And he says, and I've asked myself, doesn't really finish that. The question is, what have you asked yourself? Because if you ask it of yourself, is it that, well, I asked myself, could I have done more? Could I have been better? Could I have protected more? In this whole interview, you hear about how unprotected that place is. It's completely exposed with people coming up, swapping out dogs, just I'll take your dog, I'll leave some other dogs there. They come up on horses, all kinds of other stuff to do stuff and stuff and things. And so it's a bit of an odd situation up there. And maybe you would ask yourself, is this really somewhere that have I really provided the right place? Has my wife, my partner provided the right place? So it could be that. I question any eye blocks on that. Chase, what are your thoughts on this? You guys get all the good stuff here. But this video really shows us the power of baseline and how important baseline is. We know Don Wells likes to start questions as soon as he is able to get the gist of what you're asking him. This question was concise, crystal clear, and easily understood. And this amount of hesitation here would be a significant red flag for me in any interview. And I think Don starts to roll down a hill that Scott kind of put him on here and making him start to speak specifically about what he doesn't believe about the story. Because Scott kind of left a little incomplete question or just kind of tossed that up. Well, what is it? What is your question? And just kind of started this ball rolling. And there's an increased blink rate when he's denying that he fully believes Candice's story or he doesn't have any questions about it. And there's a single shoulder shrug, which indicates a lack of confidence in what a person is saying right at the end here. And if we scored this on the behavioral table of elements for deception, the score would be a 16 with a score of 11 indicating a likelihood of deception to be honest. Does there anything about Candice's story that makes you question the story? No, not the way it played out and everything like that. I mean, yeah, you always have questions and I'd ask myself what the way that it happened and her emotions and her state of mind. What were the questions that you had? I mean, I don't really have any. I mean, I question, I don't really have any questions. I mean, did you rape your sister? No. Did you rape your niece? No. Did you molest your first son at you? No. Did you threaten Candice? I can give you and my kids this number and we can talk when this is done. Sure, sure. I'm a dollar tall. Sure. Did you threaten to kill him? No. I want to go last. Okay. Stuart, you want to go first? We're seeing these eye closure, which guarantee you if we just aired this without our analysis, we'd see a thousand comments of like, oh, there's rapid blinking. He's lying. We're looking at clusters to determine deception. We're looking at multiple things to determine deception. And we've also determined that this blinking is part of his baseline. He's processing data on every single question here. Each denial is rapid. His answer is rapid. He tends to have a lot of latency, which is a time between the end of the question and the beginning, when there is hesitation and when there's doubt and when there's, like, I need some time to make something up or I need some time to think through my answer. This eye closure is not enough to say that he's being deceptive. And the only movement here of hesitation is the final denial that he makes on the very final denial, the small retreating motion of the head and some eye closure there. And neither of these would score as deceptive. Even adding them together would only give you an eight. So this is an excellent master class, mini micro master class, in what we're talking about when we say clusters. Like, here's a deceptive behavior. Here's a deceptive behavior. It doesn't mean much. And one of those deceptive behaviors that you might see is something that this person does habitually all the time, no matter what they're talking about. So that's when we say baseline is important and probably secondary to baseline is looking at clusters. Scott, what do you got? All right, I'm going to say the last one, so different than those first three questions. Did you threaten to kill them? No. All the classics. Backs up, says, as he says, no, it goes quieter. No. But you see that go up there in the middle? Man, that's when I want to... There's no reason to lay into that because it doesn't go with what we're dealing with at that point. So I laid off it. But that's the one that made me get bigger. I wanted to go, yes, you did. You know you did. I want to do one of those. But I didn't at that point. But I would have had every right to looking back on it. So I think I agree with Chase 100%. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, yeah, I would agree. So clear, confident denial in the first lot of them and within that first lot, he even confronts becomes aggressive, I would say, with Greg there like we've seen him get at other times. And then he substantiates his claim. Not a great substantiation. Like, you know, we can go and ask these people if you like. That's not a huge substantiation. But he does substantiate at that point. He's clearly going to go, look, it's not just me that's going to say this. It's other people as well. Ask the community kind of thing. So that's important. But I would agree. We get swallow gesture on the last one. We get slight, slight sour taste there. We get slight head turn on that as well. Yeah. If I were to lay money, has he threatened in some way to kill somebody in some way at some point? Yeah, probably, probably. But is it important for this situation here? I don't think so. But I think he knows, yeah, he's had a number or he's got angry and he's said some stuff. And I think many of us might fall into that position at some point as well. And if I ask that question and wanting to say no, we might show some of the same indicators as well. Greg, what are your thoughts on this one? Yeah, so this is a really good one for me. We always say that people can have more than one way of dealing with folks in a situation. What I think we're seeing here is Don dealing with authority or he perceives us to be authority or whatever it is. And he is very kind and polite and quiet. I guarantee you, and this is not just Don, this is everybody, there's another side we are not seeing here. That swallow before he gets to that question, these are nasty questions. And if you think he's responding by his blink rate or that coming, any one of you just show up and let me poke you and ask you, did you do this? Did you do that? We tell you all the time that people get angry when they're accused of something they didn't do. And we can see a little bit of that and that rise and his respiration, a little bit of that. Just pay attention to him. And you'll see just a little edge rising Don at this point. I could see it there. And then I agree with you, Scott, and with you, what with the three of you, when he gets to that fourth question and he goes, no, no, something sounds odd and off. And I agree with you, Mark, did you threaten to kill him? It could mean I'm going to kill you if you keep that up. It could mean no, I'm going to come out there and kill you. We know that he can rant and rave. You can find him on YouTube and doing that kind of thing. But every person can when pushed to a point, I'm not defending him, but saying, I can see the other person behind there. And Don's not a little fella. He's a good size fella. So he's probably been accustomed and he works with his hands. He's probably been accustomed to being physical in his life and he had to make it through. As he told us in the very beginning of the story, I was raised in county jails. So he had to be relatively tough in his life. And I would bet with the right amount of pushing, I could get a little bit more aggression out of him. And I could sense that sitting across from him and asking these very ugly questions. And I agree with you. He went and said, we'll call my kids. He didn't say we'll call my other accusers because they're accusing. They're also accusing him of doing something to his kids. But he said, my kids will tell you that didn't happen. And so there, I'll leave it at that. Did you rape your sister? No. Did you rape your niece? No. Did you molest your first son? No. Did you threaten to kill him? I can give you my kids this number and we can talk when this is done. Sure, sure. And we'll talk to him. Sure. Did you threaten to kill him? No. All right, here we go. Do you know where Summer is? Oh, no. I wish I did. Any earthy idea what happened to her? No. I wished I did. Do you think Candace had anything to do with him? No. And what about this? And you think what might have happened to her was what? She was getting out. Yeah. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, very simple. She was kidnapped. Seems very assured of that downward intonation on that. The eye contact that he has on that really, really assured. So I'm just going to leave it at that. I've got a question about it. Any earthy idea what happened to her? And then we get this eye flutter on that. And I don't know what that might be about. So I'm kind of interested what, you know, ideas on that. Chase, what do you think? Any answer for me on that eye flutter just after any earthy idea what happened? No, I think he's processing data. I think an eye flutter wouldn't mean very much. Did you want me to go as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm done. I mean, that's just assured for me. That's the only question I have in that one. Okay, so his eye closure here, if we're just going to stick on that, is different in the question about Candace. Candace had anything to do with it at all. In every other question throughout the entire video, even though the clips that we're not looking at here with you, his eyes flutter. When we're talking about Candace, they shut. They are shut down. And each of his denials contain multisyllables. There are high frequency tones. There's low frequency tones. So there's tonal fluctuation in his voice. And when it comes time to talk about Candace, Scott asked him about Candace and Scott gives, you gave him time to talk. You didn't, you didn't just let him say one thing. There's plenty, there's a huge window time for him to talk. So there's no frequency, no highs and lows, one syllable, one word answer. And it's a downward tone. Candace had anything to do with it at all. Which is the opposite of him talking about being kidnapped. He was kidnapped. And this stands out as being so different that this is a huge red flag. His eyebrows move and communicate in every single denial, except for the one about Candace. His head shakes slowed down and was more deliberate when it came down to talking or denying when he's speaking about Candace. And his no turned into a na. More when he was making that denial about Candace. And he nods his head. Yes. While saying that she was kidnapped, which goes with his baseline behavior is in that he believes it and that he agrees with that statement. So I will say the there is, I'll just say I would suggest that there is a very high likelihood for deception around the question that Scott, you specifically asked about Candace. And I'll let you talk about that. All right. My concern with this at first was when I said, do you know what happened to her? And he said, no, I wish I did. Now, a lot of times you'll hear parents say, I wish I did after that. No, I wish I did. That's that's fairly common. If you go through these people that are there, ask that question. But when we got to the end, I said, what is it you think that happened to her? And I was saying these things not like, so what do you think happened to her? It was there very wide as I'm asking them. So he has to take him in word at a time and almost guess what I'm going to say next. We can get that reaction once it dawns on him. That's the part that bothered me when he said she was kidnapped. Greg has a great take on on that specifically. But I think later on we're getting into a situation where as he goes through, we still aren't confident that he believes Candace. And for my perception of what's going on, I'm not so sure he believes what she's saying because what Chase, what you're saying, you've covered everything on that. So yeah, the eye and her eye blinks and her eye blocking at that point plays a huge part in that, huge part in that. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, there's a difference in Chase. You're on to exactly what I was hearing. Everything else, there's the no, no. Just if you just listen, it's a grunt almost when he comes out about Candace. And I had the same suspicions. And the last one, I'm going to leave everything else off and just talk about the last one. Kidnapped is the first time we hear this word. He's used the word abducted before. Kidnapped is not the same as abducted. Kidnapped usually comes along with a request for something in exchange for the person. Most all humans think that. We watch TV. We know now, could it be that it's a subtlety wasted on Don? Could be. But when I heard that word, my brain went ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, because I'm a hammer and nails are there. And I worked anti-terror through my life. Kidnapping means something. There's a reason. It's political. It's economic. He has nothing political to offer. So what in his head does he think kidnapping means? And then along with that Candace thing, it just raised all of my red flags. Now, does that mean that he intentionally did that? Don't know. Did he say kidnapping versus abduction? He said in other places, don't know. Does he know the difference? Don't know. We didn't get to that level of nuance. The last thing I'll leave you with is when you're talking about someone, you have a very tightly bonded relationship with them. They've been together for a long time. Your tone may be different when you're talking about them. If I ask Scott about Amber, his tone will be different than if I ask him about Chase, for example. Because I don't know about that. You never know. I don't know about your guys' relationship and how it works. We're very close. Chase and I are very close. Do you know where summer is? I don't know. I wish I did. Any earthy idea what happened to her? No. I wished I did. Do you think Candace had anything to do with it? No. And what about this? And you think what might have happened to her was what? She was getting out. Yeah. All right, great. All right, now let's run around the room really quickly and we'll all give 30 seconds or less of what we think happened. We'll go to Mark. We'll go to Sweetie Pie. Then we'll go to Greg. And we'll see where we end up there. All right. Yeah. So, you know, what comes out of this for me is how easily he gets wound up in this soap opera that's going on concurrently with the search for summer wells. And I think it's quite easy for us to get wound up in that soap opera. What I take away from this is to try not to do that and try and stick to the more factual elements that we can see around us. So really, you know, this whole thing is just a lesson for me in saying, can we keep things a little bit narrower and not widen it out into this extraordinary soap opera with step sisters and all kinds of, and YouTubers and Facebook and all these people involved and narrow it a little more down because I think that's where we're going to find the real issues here. When I look through the whole of the interview, I do get interested by how unsecure that area is and all the people who come up with, for all kinds of reasons, looking for her. That's where my nose would be going right now towards that, not so much on Don. It could be wrong. Chase, your thoughts. This video really illustrates the importance of understanding microcultures and cultural differences in people. This is the reason that we baseline human beings. And when we hear these phrases like got gone, things like that, I didn't know until very recently that that's common along that entire part of the country. It's a super common phrase. My mistake. I'm open to admit all that stuff because that's part of what we're understanding when we're talking to somebody that's in a microculture. We're also talking to a person with a checkered past that everyone will use to paint the future. I'm going to dip my finger in this past. I'm going to start to just paint the future. I don't be very certain about what's going on. I think that in my opinion that Don Wells is mostly honest and I think that there is a tremendous amount of doubt or uncertainty at a minimum with Canis' story or her level of involvement or her knowledge of what actually took place. And maybe there's some knowledge there. I think I went over 30 seconds. I apologize. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is one of those great opportunities for you to take away your bias. I'm going to tell you when I went there, the guy has a background. We know he has a background. He may even still be doing some things that you may or may not agree with. I'm not talking to any of that. I went there with one purpose in mind. I wanted to know what he knew about summer wells, what this whole thing is about, and whether he was involved in the disappearance of summer wells. I'll tell you based on his baseline, which we went through a lot of process to discover, pushing him into corner with some simple questions that he had no reason to lie about that caused stress and looking for that stress level to rise. And then finally going right to the point and hammering and seeing him emotional about this kid the day before. I'm going to tell you, I don't believe he's involved in her disappearance. Could I be wrong? Sure. But based on everything I saw, face to face, based on everything I felt and saw and learned and thought and listened by watching and listening to his baseline and looking for deviation at the key moments, I don't think he's involved. Scott, what do you got? I agree with Greg. I don't think he is either. Having been there with him, I agree 100% with you. I don't think he was involved at all. He didn't answer through questions correctly to be involved as far as that goes. But I agree with you guys. This is a perfect example of, it's a great example of being able to not only watch somebody be questioned and interviewed, but be able to get the other side of the people who are interviewing it, give you their side of it as well. Why are we asking questions this way? Why are our approaches a certain way? Why are we required here? Why are we getting a little bit louder and other parts, which I think we're going to do? Are we going to do a part, a next part two of this, you guys? I'm for it. Sure. We still got something to do. We should keep bringing it up until we find summer. Okay. Yeah, because they're going to find out what happened. And I agree with Greg. I don't think he had anything to do with it. So at the same time, I don't think he believes Candace or her story on that, whatever it is, you know, I guess from the TV interviews. So I think it's a great example to be able to see someone be interviewed and also get the input from people who interviewed that person and why they did it and give you an insight as to what we're thinking is to get those questions asked and to elicit those answers from them. All right. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe. All I got to do is get that little red thing down there and then hit the bell so it lets you know when we have a new one come out. I just want to say a quick thanks to Dr. Phil and the entire Paramount team here. I'm in LA. I'm staying in a really nice hotel with really crappy Wi-Fi. I texted Dr. Phil last night and he had all of this stuff set up. The producers are in here and let me kind of just borrow his little filming area. So I do want to give a shout out to Dr. Phil and the entire team here for letting me come crash the studio. Yes. Can I add one thing? Guys, everybody listening. You, Summer Wells, post that photo. Get her picture. I mean, we know it's in a lot of places. Get her picture everywhere. There's a little kid and she's missing still. Do what you can to find her. Yeah. Also, Greg and I got our flu shots just to chase us right over there. A couple of days ago. We were there and Dr. Phil was like, you've always wanted flu shots? He was getting one. Like, yeah, we'll do flu shots. So we got our flu shots there as well. Scott cried. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. That's right. He is a doctor. Scott cried. So it doesn't matter what happened. My reaction to it. It's not great. All right. Well, thank you so much for being with us. And this is a good one, fellas. We'll see you next time. See you.