 talk story with John Laihei. And we today are continuing with our historic series called Insurrection Impeachment of the Aftermath, and our guest is Senator Maisie Hirono. I can't. Fantastic. Maisie and I have been through so many political things together. I just get excited to see you, Senator. You know, there's so much that we could talk about and all of that. But, you know, to focus, where were you when these people were attacking the capital? We were, I was in the Senate chamber and we were just beginning the debate on the challenge to the, what was it, Arizona count, the electoral count and there we were. And one of the Republican senators who had objective was speaking. And what I recollect is suddenly all these staff people rushed into the Senate chamber and that was unusual and they stood toward the back. And the next thing we see the vice president who was presiding at that time rushed out of the room. Then the followed by all of us being told that we should, in an orderly way, move to a more secure place. And at that point we were told like a fire drill kind of, you know, but we knew that there was something definitely going on. That we had the idea that the barriers have been breached, but we didn't see what was going on with the whole world and the rest of the country was watching in real time until we were in our secure place and it was, I would say an hour or so before our TV monitors were brought in and we saw the, what was happening, the siege on the capital and the horror and just the, I cannot tell you how to describe watching these people breaking windows and coming in and looking for us. And at that time it was, you know, some of my colleagues were in situations they were not with a larger group, at least one person, Patty Murray, and she's talked about this after she processed it more, but she was in her hideaway and that the rioters are banging on her door and she didn't know whether the door was locked. Her husband was propping the door shut with his foot because if they tried to lock it at that point, the rioters would have known that somebody was in there. So it was very frightening and of course members of the house were in much more exposed positions and we all saw them with their safety hoods on and having to crouch in the upper levels of the house. But we didn't know until much later that the rioters were kept away from the house. The rioters, the senators were being, we were marching literally to our secure location, but the rioters were not very far from us or at the other end of the fall and the police, law enforcement blocked them from getting to us with their bodies. And I don't know if the rioters knew that it was senators being, you know, that their targets were right down the hall. Did you ever, ever in your entire career ever thought that this would happen? No. It's just inconceivable. And the thing is that it's not over and the hearings are going on. In fact, yesterday the Judiciary Committee on which I sit heard from Chris Ray, the FBI director, and he said racially motivated extremists, violent extremists are at the top of the list of people that we need to watch for. He puts them on a level with al-Qaeda. And today we have the Homeland Security Committee hearing from the head of the D.C. National Guard and others as to what happened. On the other hand, I think that it's still unfolding more information continues to come out, but I'm, we're going to get to the impeachment, the second impeachment. The whole thing was just, if we really want to cry. Let's talk about that. Let's just move into the second impeachment. I mean, just continue your story because it's so fascinating. So, okay, so all of this happens. It's that kind of a day you learn about it. The president, the former president is impeached for the second time and you go through the trial. Personally, I thought the house managers did a phenomenal job. I mean, I was, I was scared watching some of that stuff. You know, I think they did a masterful job of laying out the case. And I also want to mention that while we were in our secure location, there were people from Hawaii and on the mainland calling and texting all of us because they were watching what was going on, the videos that we didn't even see up to that point, asking us whether we were okay. And where was Trump all this time? He was safely ensconced in the White House. Yeah, he told the people he was going to, he was going to go through the capital with them and then he dashes back in on. I mean, that was great. That, you know, when I was watching the video in the impeachment trial through the timeline as to matching up what he was doing and what he was texting with the, with the riots or insurrection. That's right. So the article of impeachment is citing an insurrection, which covers, you know, the period before January 6 where he was basically putting out the big lie and just putting out the big lie that the election was going to be stolen before the votes had even been cast. So before the election, before the January election, during the January election, after the January election, they filed, he and his many as file over 60 lawsuits. And they either withdrew or they were dismissed on every single one of them except one small one that made, that did not make any difference to the outcome. And they were basically thrown out of court because there was no fraud in the election that they could prove. So it makes you wonder, John, you and I are lawyers, you know, there's supposed to be some sanctions against lawyers to bring frivolous losses, but those do you think it's going to happen and kind of apply what sanctions on the lawyers? I hope so. I know some states are trying to do that. I hope so. You know what is interesting to me and it gave me some hope in all of this mess because, I mean, even today, when I go and look at the news reports from Washington and elsewhere across the country, I mean, it's still depressing. It's still like cancer. Because it's not over. As Chris raised this, these people, the racially motivated extremists, i.e., the white supremacists, to a great extent, you can, you know, they're still out there. And in fact, I just got to notice that we are on heightened security alert for tomorrow through Saturday because our intel community has and our law enforcement people have some information that there might be a plan to try to do something else to try to take the capitol again. They're out there. They're heavily armed, many of them. And so it is not over. Well, I tell you, I just read some reports. I think it was last week, which said that crimes against Asian Americans have gone up like 2,700% or something. Yes. I mean, it's seconding, actually. Yes. To see that. When Mayor Garland came before the Judiciary asked them specifically about, you know, of course you have, he was very aware that crimes like targeting Asian American specific Islanders API has gone up dramatically. And the fact is that when you have a former president who will continue to call COVID-19, the China virus, you had members of his administration calling it the Kung flu. You create an environment where these kinds of targeted random attacks will happen. And horrifically, some of these attacks have resulted in deaths. They're currently more targeting of older APIs. They look more vulnerable. So in California and New York, knife things, random knife things. The leading deaths. The leading human. See, I don't understand this. So you may have to explain it to me, but how can somebody. You know, I was watching this and then reach over and throw a helpless woman on the ground. And just get picked up and released by the cops. Not even get charged with anything more than, I don't even know what it wasn't even an assault. And this is where justice justice and policing. Act, which when the Republicans were in control of the Senate, they put out a bill that. An alternative to the justice and policing act that were led by Kamala Harris and Cory Booker and a whole bunch of us signed on to it. And, and they had Tim Scott of South Carolina introduced their version of Tim Scott, the only black member of the Senate, they kind of pushed him forward. And I said, you know, I said, look, I like Tim stop, but I'm not about to pass. I'm not to vote for him. I will not vote for his half ass bill. And so that didn't come forward, but I'm hopeful that this kind of disparate policing and the disparate treatment of minorities by police. I asked Merrick Garland, are you going to engage in a pattern and practice investigations of police departments, something that the Obama administration had consent decrees. And these don't just say it's not just imposed upon police departments, it's after negotiating with them and they had a number of these consent decrees, which by the way, the Trump administration did not institute a single one of these pattern and practice of disparate policing on the books. And so this is something that Merrick Garland, I know is very aware of and where it is warranted, they will, they will do that. And I'm not saying that, you know, all police departments are corrupt, but where disparate policing is a pattern and practice, something should happen. You're right, John, it's amazing in this country that the racism. The racism and I mean, the institutional racism is clear because the arrest this guy, okay, you did a bad thing. But then they let him go or even the way that in my opinion, the way that the rioters were treated at the Capitol versus, you know, what was happening with when you're on the street, protesting for equal treatment, equal treatment, you got treated worse than when you're attacking the central government. This is inconceivable. With tools with which they weaponized, they came with zip ties. Who knows what they were planning to do, but they were definitely looking for members of Congress. They didn't care whether they were Republicans or Democrats. And they were there to do harm. And they see each to the Capitol. And so, yes, it just raises the whole question of how policing occurs in our country. And we all know that if it were a group of Black Lives Matters protesters at the Capitol, there would have been that place would have been bristling with law enforcement. They would have been bristling and they would have probably been protestors that would have been shot or something. Real quick before we take a short break, I wanted to ask you, how is this affected your staff? I mean, people must have, I don't know if I was working in an office in the Capitol that I would just remain unaffected by any of this. Are there like extra security for staff or what? Since March, we've been doing teleworking. So it's only a few of my staff who are with me. And we're very careful. But yes, I think it impacts all of us emotionally that this could happen. And the person who was the main instigator of this gets away with, he gets away the second time that he goes to CPAC, which has turned into a total cult of the Trump personality with the golden effigy. The golden effigy, I mean, this is starting, I got to tell you, it's starting to resemble the rise of Hitler. I think the analogies are there. And he's still talking about the election being stolen. Throughout his speech, he spoke for an hour or something I don't know. He doesn't mention January 6th. He doesn't mention that over 100 people who were hurt, five people dying, dead. He's talking about an alternative reality. And this is why I have concerns for our country. I'm just glad that we now have a sane, caring president and vice president. They're making a huge difference in the COVID. Just the vaccinations that are being made available throughout our country is something that Trump never cared about. Amazing. Over half a million people dead and he took no vaccine, left it to the states. They didn't have enough vaccines. Now, by May, we're told that there will be enough vaccines for every adult in our country. And in the state of Hawaii, talk with the health director. She wants to vaccinate 1.4 million people. We're not there yet. Well, I think that, well, we're going to take a short break because that thing has been coming up. And when we come back, let's talk about how the aftermath of all of this, you know, what happens now, what we're doing to prevent it from happening in the future. But, you know, just as importantly, is there any hope of some kind of unified action on anything in the future? So we'll take a one minute break and we'll be right back. Welcome back. Welcome back to Talk Story with John Waihei and our special guest, Senator Maisie, I think he's your owner. You know, it just amazes me. You know, I remember when we used to run around the young Democrats together. And here you are, you're sitting on the pinnacle of American governance, you know. Who would have thought it? But how fantastic that is on one hand. Very grateful to be here. How fantastic that is. And, you know, moments like that, or realizations like that, that make us feel good about our country. And then you had January 6th, you know. And then you have all this stuff with the picking on Asians and Pacific Islanders and all of that, as well as the traditional racism that existed in the country. So the question is, Senator, you know, given the events of this past January, what, first, what should we be doing to make sure it doesn't happen again? And will we ever have a country that we grew up being told about again, you know? The thing is that the equal rights and justice are aspirational because underlying all that was racism. Racism was never far below the surface in our country, and it percolates up the Chinese Exclusion Act, the internment of Japanese Americans, the Muslim ban. And so eternal vigilance is what's required of all of us. At the same time, you need an attorney general who will abide by the rule of law, not like Barn, who would act like he was the president's personal lawyer. And so are people at the, people in leadership positions starting with the president, the vice president, attorney general, these are all people who need to speak out of, I mean, truth would be really good because with Trump we had multiple lives every single day. Every single day the man would die. And so we now have leaders for whom truth and transparency are important values, not to mention the press. You will not hear Joe Biden's calling the press the enemies of the people. And so the truth-telling is really important. They rely on some facts to make decisions. To have a president who cares and who says so, who pays homage to the millions. I mean, half a million have already died, all the people who have been impacted to show that humanity is really important. And then for all of us to denounce the hate crimes that are happening in our country. And right now there is particular attention regarding the AAPI's why, because we're still in the middle of a pandemic. And there are some people who blame the pandemic on Asians and they will act out on that belief. But really it's troublesome on one hand to me that so many lawyers got away with bringing lives. I mean, Rudy Giuliani, I mean, this guy was a hero at one time. And now, you know, this has no credibility. I think the civil lining, especially with regard to the challenges on the election fraud allegations was the fact that not one single court, including some that were judges that were appointed by Trump. You know, I thought it was a joke. I mean, I thought those guys didn't. And as a member of the judiciary committee, you must have seen that happen. But nevertheless, not even they bought into this nonsense. You know, at least that was good. There's that. On the other hand, there are dozens of states that are considering over 200 voter suppression bills, even as we speak. And there's a really important one that the Supreme Court heard only yesterday. And it has to do with, I think it was a voter suppression effort on the part of the Arizona Republican Party that the Supreme Court heard only yesterday. And one of the questions asked of all things by Amy Coney Barrett, who I did not support, by the way, for the Supreme Court, I believe she asked the question, basically like what, you know, why is a Republican, what is the interest of the Republican Party of Arizona in pursuing this? And the lawyer says, well, because, you know, the elections are zero sum game. And when we have the, if we can get this particular voter suppression law continue them, it gives us a better chance to win. Yeah, you got the Republicans. It's just shocking. It's shocking on one that was shocking in the sense for those of us who grew up being taught in elementary school that things like this don't happen in America. And it was also shocking that the lawyer was, in my opinion, arrogant enough to admit it. Now, yes, they're very awkward about it. They feel like nobody's going to have what their voters are not going to care that their votes are being taken away. It is crazy. This whole situation with our country, it's just, you know, John, when you and I were first doing politics and while we're still doing it, that was many decades ago. And I think we really believed in the promise of our country and what we as young people could do to effect changes. And I'm glad that I'm still able to fight that battle. But you've been fighting dead battle forever. I remember when we were in the House of Representatives and you were a young representative. And you came and I was the, you know, the assistant majority leader and I was sitting with the majority leader, Dennis Yamada. And you came in and you walked in and you say, you know, it's only fair that if you're going to charge somebody for sexual crime, the customer should be charged as well. And you know, and that was like revolutionary. And you got that, you got that started and you've been doing it. I got to tell you something. You and I both were very, you know, we're admirers of Patsy Min. At least I was and I know you were. And I actually had a chance to, she ran against me when I ran for governor. You know, a lot of people don't know that, but she also really helped me to get to be governor. And we got to be quite close. And so she was one of my heroes too. But you ought to know that I talked to a class of students about two weeks ago and the new hero for justice and so forth happened to be you. They were saying the same things about you. I shouldn't be, I'm not doing this just to put, but to let you know that there are people in Hawaii who truly appreciate their stance on issues that are of that kind of foundational magnitude, you know, like justice and racial equality and the like. Yeah, so yeah, they didn't actually, they were too young to really know about Patsy, but they're current favorites. Isn't that something? I'm grateful they're paying attention, which is really nice. But as I say too, I've been saying for a long time now, the battles we thought we had won for voting rights and women's right to choose the battles we thought we had won never stay one. That's why there's always the battles to be fought and for the next generation. And so I just keep plugging away. It's been a journey for me to get to where I am and quite unlikely journey, I have to say. Well, we're going to come back to that with a, but first a quick question from one of the listeners. He wants to know, and I don't know, he wants to know what is being done about these racial groups in Hawaii. We've got a proud boys group. Fortunately, the guy got lost in the election anyway, but I assume there's going to be some kind of action or legislation or something about these radical. Well, the storming of the Capitol as the FBI director race said that that was a terrorist act. But we don't have a law that actually says you can be charged with terrorist activity. So there's some bills. There's some bills to designate that as a specific crime as opposed to, you know, property or damage or being where you're not supposed to be. So there are those kinds of, and of course, a terroristic threatening. And there are those kinds of laws, but there's a lot more emphasis because it's clear. As he said, terrorism spreads a lot as fast as a social media. And the spread of terrorism is as fast as social media. Social media plays a role in all these people finding each other and go to each other. And, you know, it was the biggest go-to of them all was the president of the United States as far as our former president. Yeah. It was so, it was so graphic to hear what he was texting in the middle of the, you know, but I want to, I want to talk a little bit about a heart of fire and immigrant daughter story. So you wrote a book. Yes. And it's coming out very shortly. April 20th. Is that what it sounds? The publication date is April 20th. There's a lot that goes into it I've discovered. Doing a memoir. But, you know, I wrote it because it was, was to honor my mother because she is in a care facility. She, she cannot speak for herself. And, you know what, I just, I wouldn't be here without my mom. You know, I know that you have, you have talked about that a number of times, but for people who may not have known about it, you, she was really a single mom that raised you up and brought you to. Immigrant. Yeah. To Hawaii and here you are in the United States. So, you know, this is the, isn't this the paradox of the United States though that something like that could happen. Yes. As well as the shoving of the lady in the ground for New York City. And when I was watching the news and the young people and others in New York saying that they don't walk down the street listening to their music or anything, they're very careful because these are random attacks. And believe me, I think all Asians are going to, we all need to be aware of our surroundings. It's not like I walk around just. I am very aware. And I don't go very far anyway. Well, come back, come back to Hawaii, you know, that's, it'd be nice. Yeah, it's, you know, it's like, I was just watching somebody make a presentation. This African American person was talking about race. But he was contrasting what he where he lived now with the fact that he grew up in Hawaii. And well, and here we may, we actually appreciate everybody's differences in the sense that there's no hesitation to say, you know, you're Japanese, I'm native Hawaiian, something like that. But what we don't do is we don't use it as an excuse to hurt people. Yeah. And so, you know, but we, I guess we all need to be vigilant about these things. Yeah. Senator, is there anything you want to say to the listeners before we get pulled off the air? Has 30 minutes gone by already? Oh my God. Yeah, a little bit more than that, but we've got to make sure you get it. You get to vote today because that means a lot to Hawaii. Yeah. There's a lot for the people of Hawaii. But again, yeah, we have a 50-50 divided Senate, every Democratic vote counts. And this is a bill, huge bill that's going to send over 1.6 billion to the state of Hawaii and hundreds of millions for education, everything, right? And I don't think a single Republican, except maybe, maybe Lisa Murkowski, I'm not sure, because Mitch McConnell is telling his Republican colleagues, don't vote for this bill. Not a single Republican voted for it in the House. So here's a bill that's going to help millions and millions of Americans and the Republicans can't even vote for it. It's just awesome. It's just amazing that the total lack of care. So is the Senate the munchin' gonna vote for it? Yeah. Joe Machen? Yes. Ultimately, you will vote for it. I'm grateful, John, that I represent Hawaii. Because I tell people we have, you know, we, we, Ohana is this idea of we care not just for our own families, but outside of our family. It's our Ohana. That's more than just words to us. And I talked with my colleagues about that. And they say, you have something like that? I said, yes. So one of my best friends in the Senate was, is Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota. Oh, yeah. And she, whenever she would see me with people from Hawaii, she would come up and she says, you know, I'm part of Macy's Ohana. Well, Senator. I represent a place like Hawaii where diversity is really important then. I can tell you, one of the things that I bring back from, when I'm home is food. Laulau and noodles and Manapua, kimchi, daikon. So I'm not supposed to, but I will confess to you that yesterday I snuck off and got a Stan Musubi. Now I'm never supposed to eat that anyway. But here I am. I say life is short. I'm eating it. Thank you so much, Senator. I appreciate your willingness to talk to us and the people of Hawaii and your service, your service to our state. Everyone in Hawaii, stay safe, be kind. Aloha. Aloha.