 Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Welcome to Live in London, the special show on this special Sunday evening. Recently we had a member of parliament make controversial comments in regards to the Muslim dress code the burqa the niqab. He referred to Muslim women as looking like letter boxes, burglars. This obviously provoked a very very angry response from Muslims and non-Muslims alike. But what is the historical and the fiqh, the ahkam rulings in regards to the niqab? As Muslims are we supposed to cover our faces or is this just mustahab or is it just cultural? Furthermore we have the likes of France and Denmark having campaigns to ban the burqa. Where does this lead to and how can we as Muslims react and respond to such situations? Surely we also have the freedom to dress how we want to. Is that not a right of every human being? Inshallah we'll discuss this and a lot more with Dr. Said Amar Aqshua. Assalamu alaikum Dr. Very controversial, very very you know in trend right now but are we as Muslims the only religion that actually cover ourselves and cover our faces? Well I think what was disappointing about the statements that were made and I know that we have so many viewers who are from outside of the UK who may be asking well what exactly has taken place and you've got you know a person who was in a political position in this country respected political position as you know mayor of London or in a foreign secretary position who described a certain spectrum of Muslim women who have the face veil on as similar to letter boxes and even similar to burglars. And what was disappointing about such statements is that he was the mayor of what is arguably the most cosmopolitan city in the world. There is no city and I'm proud to say this as a Londoner and I'm proud of having been raised in London and for me there is no place on this earth like London. I'm proud to say that you know you could look around you and you could see people of different faiths, people of different backgrounds, denominations who are able to live together in peace and harmony you know on one street you may be having a neighbor who may be of the Sikh community or you may be having a neighbor of the Jewish community and you're absolutely right when you state that they also have forms of head covering. If you look for example within the Sikh religion the turban or the Dastar that they wear you'll find that many will wear it until today in some cases with a view of it being obligatory in other cases with a view of it being recommended. But the basis of it is a form of honor, form of reverence, a form of respect and dignity for that person. Some would also say a form of identity. Identity as well as in I felt sorry for some members of the Sikh community in the aftermath of 9-11 when they got attacked because people thought they were Muslims you know and then you've got members of the Jewish community in London who will wear the kippah and when they're wearing it again you'll find that some of the Orthodox Jewish community members will wear it on the basis of it being obligatory. Then there'll be others who may say well it's not obligatory but it should be encouraged with the children from a very young age. In other words Islam is not unique in the fact that it talks about a head covering with an understanding of honor and dignity and respect and reverence surrounding it. And we've lived in London for so long where interfaith has been part and parcel of the success of many of these religious communities. You go to virtually every council in the London boroughs and you'll see that there is an interfaith group where members of these religions come together and they're able to benefit and learn from one another like I'm speaking next week at an interfaith event on the concept of sacrifice in Islam and Christianity with a priest of the Christian community and there is that love and that respect that is there so it was very disappointing when this was said because it then antagonizes. Who does it antagonize? Firstly it may antagonize members of the Muslim community. Secondly even members of the non-Muslim community who are disturbed when a person dictates well this is the exact way that you have to dress. Then there are certain with maybe extreme opinions about how this country does not give rights to Muslims who will use that to then further explore angles of even terrorizing in this country as in when someone comes and says why is it that some of these bomb blasts have happened if you're going to have comments like this you're feeding that type of person antagonizing that type of person who's now making an excuse to say well if he's going to take the mick out of my mother's for example face veil and we know that the face veil is not something which is seen in the majority of the members of the Muslim community but it exists. Likewise the kippah is not going to be seen on every member of the Jewish community for example in London but it exists. Likewise there are many Sikh who do not wear the turban but still it exists. When I'm now going to make fun of it and say letterbox or burglars I'm feeding and I'm also feeding another group the racist establishment because we could see around the world at the moment there's a sort of racism that's creeping in. A racism where it's very normal to mock not just religion but to mock the beliefs of a group of a particular religion and now for certain people in especially white supremacist groups whether it's here or whether it's other countries well they're going to say well if a top official can make such comments what's there to stop us taking our venom on these people and that's why you find that there are reports that certain ladies who've decided in their life to wear the face veil were the victims of hate attacks not many but it doesn't have to be many. Could be one acid attack could destroy the whole fabric of a community. Likewise it could be one push towards the middle of the road can kill someone's life. So we have to look at this and try and come together to explain the background of this because I think also many Muslims are uncertain face veil obligatory not obligatory is the veil obligatory not obligatory. In regards to the veil being obligatory or not obligatory I mean what does the Quran have to say in regards to that I mean surely it mentions about the hijab and covering of the hair is it that to that extent there's a lot going further to discuss anything about covering the face at all. I don't think the Quran uses the word hijab in relation to covering the hair. Therefore on YouTube if you find certain people who are saying that there is no verse in the Quran which tells you wear a hijab on your head I think they're right. There is no verse in the Quran that says get a hijab and put it on your head but then we have to look at the evolution of the word hijab. Words evolve the coinage of terms is a study within itself. If you look in Osul al-Fiqh there is a chapter in Osul al-Fiqh where they discuss the evolution of a particular term. How did this term originate linguistically and how did it evolve into the legal definition? We call the discussion the discussion of a term that is ta'iyyini or ta'iyyuni. You may have a word like salah. Salah in its origin means dua. Later on salah became associated with praying five times a day. You may have a word like faqih. Faqih in the origin of the word someone who is deep and well versed in religion. The evolution of the term has undergone a number of steps. One of them being for example jurist. Today when you say faqih you're referring to jurist. Originally ta'iqh of the deen didn't only say go and learn law but there's been an evolution in the term. So in Osul al-Fiqh when one is looking at wad'a and the discussion of ta'iyyini and ta'iyyuni there are terms that evolve. Even the word faqih. How was it looked at by Ahl al-Bayt? How do they define who a faqih is? How important is the title of faqih to one of their companions, to our understanding of a tradition? Likewise with the word hijab. The word hijab, the coinage of the term has undergone an evolution. If you're asking me where in the Quran does it say that there should be a veil on the head of a woman then when you're looking for hijab you're looking for the wrong word. The word hijab is what we use today for that. In Arabia the head covering was known as the khimar. You notice with alcohol being an intoxicant it's called khamar. But why is it called khamar? Because it's that which covers one's reasoning. Likewise the khimar was seen as a cover that Arabian woman you saw already wear. That word khimar is the word that you have to look for if you're trying to find out what is head covering in the Quran. And in Surah 24 verse 31 Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala gives an order to the Muslim woman with the word khimar. Let them now draw their veils over their chest area over their bosom area. These Arabian woman used to already cover their heads but their neck and chest area was showing. When the Quran said what was the Quran telling us. The Quran was telling us now tell these women to draw their veils that they already have on over their chest area. Therefore when a person is looking for the head covering in the Quran if I go on YouTube today I'll find that there are many videos on YouTube today which say there is nothing mentioning hijab in the Quran. Hijab the only thing that's mentioned about it is that it's a barrier that exists say between a man and a woman. I'm not looking for the word hijab. The word hijab is what linguistically later on may take a legal connotation in certain traditions. But if I'm looking for the word khimar that's when I find the word for head covering in the Quran because today I received many emails of people saying if it's not in the Quran why should I wear? And then we see for example the actions of the Ahlul Bayt alaym al-salam and the explanations of the Ahlul Bayt. Have the Ahlul Bayt said that there is no head covering in the Quran then why should we cover our heads? But when we look at the traditions of Ahlul Bayt who are the walking Quran who are the thakalain alongside the Quran then we find that they tell us that now that veil that you're wearing you draw it over this bosom area. We'd like to remind all our viewers that this is a live show that you can call in with your questions on 0203 515 0199 or if you alternatively you could what's up it to us on the lower third that the number should be there you can what's up your question inshallah the sayers will be able to discuss that with you. Say no you're discussing the Quranic ayah saying to the ladies to you know cover their chests and below me personally I've got females in my family I've got sisters in cousins and stuff and unfortunately some of them don't wear hijab and what is the best method to go and to discuss do they have every right not to wear the hijab is it something that should be taught to them and they make their own choice or is it something that is compulsory upon all Muslim women to wear? Well there's no doubt that it's obligatory whether you're looking at you know shia sunni schools and their legal systems there's no doubt that it's obligatory but maybe sometimes how it's explained to them has a bearing sometimes you have people who are able to explain it properly there are others if you tell them Sura 24 verse 31 they don't know the ayah there are others who may have their own interpretation or go to you know they'll say well in my opinion there is no ayah so why should I be wearing hijab then there are others the pressure of their society sometimes gets to them where you find that in some cases they'll say well me and hijab you know and when we're talking hijab now we're saying what we use as the term today that that mixture of physical and social modesty not just physical because you know it comes as a combination the manners and etiquettes are just as important as the clothing ones wear in the life of any human being for that matter I think you'll find some who may turn around say well I think I look better without covering my my head and you know it's a major sacrifice there's no doubt if a person was to look at Abraham's story with his son when he sacrifices him look at the subliminal rather than the literal message and the subliminal message is that each of us have a sacrifice in our life there is absolutely no doubt that everyone wants to show the finer parts of their body and everyone wants to wear that which shows the finer parts and everyone also wants to reveal their hair and the colors of their hair and the styles of their hair and so on and so when we sit here as men discussing this issue it's easy for us to sit down and say well you know what you have to wear because the Quran is saying you have to wear and so on but we also appreciate that there are some who may be down in terms of you know in terms of their feelings that they feel well if I wear it then I may not get married guys are not attracted to me because I'm not wearing and some guys don't help as well because I believe that the whole hijab issue the whole veil issue men are as much involved in the success of it as women when you have certain Muslim men who are like well I don't want to marry a girl that covers that is quite an arrogant statement to make and that also is condescending in a way to some of our sisters as well that do wear and to those who don't wear when you're telling them that you know what I don't want you to wear which in reality means that I really don't care what the Ahlul Bayt have said it's my life and I decide you know what you do and what you don't I think at that stage some give in to that pressure then there are others who may turn around and say to you that listen you live in a country which is cosmopolitan like London whereas I may be living in a certain part of the world where I'm stared at because I wear that hijab and it is true there are certain sisters of ours who go and study in certain places in the world where until today there may be people who are not used to the hijab doesn't mean that they're gonna be racist but they're just not used to it and it's extremely difficult at that beginning then there are people out there who may not wear the hijab but don't write them off because at the end of the day any second they may decide that you know what I want to wear the veil I think this is the time for me to wear the veil I do wish that we were told when we were gonna die so that we could at least you know if I know I'm gonna die at 50 then I can at least mess about for 49 years and then you know be religious in my last year but I think when I don't know I think that's the only thing that one has to bear in mind that any second you could return back to your Lord why with everything that your Lord has given you why would there be this one area in particular which you don't want to give in to and then that is one's personal relationship with their Lord but if we're looking at the teachings of the Ahlul Bayt al-Islam then physical hijab is as much and as important as the social hijab as well. Excellent. Sayyidina what about you know the freedom of expression and and you know the different types of fashion that people would like to adopt which is perfectly acceptable and halal in Islam so you know sometimes they will be you know loose clothing and then sometimes the different styles that they can wear the headscarf. I remember at university there was all there was big commotion in regards to the turban hijab, the camo hump hijab and so many and so forth you can see online and there's even tutorials on YouTube now on how to do these different types of hijab. I mean is there room for this in Islam? Yeah I think there's room for this. I think there is room for this. I believe that the generation that's had to grow up in the West have worked their socks off to try and maintain their identity. They have to juggle a number of identities in some cases for example you may juggle being British, Iraqi, Muslim, Shi'a, number of identities you're juggling and I think in many cases it's not that they want to give in their modesty but they want to show that you know what I could be respected as well this garment that I'm wearing shouldn't make you think that I am wearing it because I'm uneducated or I'm illiterate. No I know the principles of my religion I know what I believe in and this that I'm wearing actually is part of my growth and part of my empowerment and Alhamdulillah we have sisters out there who the struggles they've gone through and how they have overcome them and the work they've done as doctors, as dentists, as lawyers, as people in finance and engineering and media and so on. Phenomenal work. So there are many men out there who always want to pick on things that well look at her she's got a colorful hijab or look at her she has and you know what Habib you have to look at yourself you know sometimes you may be someone who has certain jurisprudential things you're not necessarily living up to in terms of the teachings of Ahlul Bayt. If it's someone in your household there's always a reminder you can always remind each other and I think Amor el-Ma'ruf and Nahi al-Munkar does have a place but you know if your house is made out of stone then your house made out of glass then don't throw stones at everybody out there. Excellent. Say now what about you know the practicalities of wearing it some of our sisters want to go to the gym some take jogs in the morning surely wearing the hijab and then the cover is just impractical especially living in London especially in the summertime with all the heat. Well I think what then begins to happen is in the Quran Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala begins to show us that an outer covering an extension of what you're wearing is something which is obligatory. Now I don't care if that's outer covering is you know Nike or Dolce & Gabbana or you know there's different outer coverings now because they're now even doing abayas and they're doing sportswear's all these big designers and fashion houses and so on and I think there's nothing wrong because the Quran mentions that wearing the head covering and your basic clothing to protect your modesty there needs to be an outer layer. If you look in Surah 33 verse 59 of the Quran says and orders the Prophet tell your wives your daughters and the believing woman to wear an outer garment that outer garment was to preserve their modesty ensure that they're not hurt by others out there you know when you look at that Me Too campaign that took place many Muslims remain quiet at that time when Me Too happened and it's as if there were many Muslims who are like I told you so and you kept on telling us we look like we're wearing too many layers and you used to take the mick out of you know our woman by saying that their woman are oppressed and shackled how many in Hollywood came out and said he touched me he groped me he pinched me he ordered me to do this and that it was disgusting what happened to these ladies but maybe that's why Islam was saying that the outer garment may be a form of protection now don't get me wrong we have Muslim men who are as bad if not worse than some of these people who had indecently assaulted and disrespected the woman in Hollywood and other areas you know there are so many women who can't speak out because these women in many cases they have families to look after households to look after and so when they're groped at work even this the very person who had made the comment about you know these women with the face veil looking like letterboxes was known to have even made comments in the past about you know power woman on her you know on her backside and tell her to move on when you want something done and so on that type of comment is why Islam was saying that listen you want to go to the gym you want to go for a jog you know what these are not haram thing more than welcome but try and wear something which is a bit more loose fitting in the hope that this would build a society with a bit more modesty fantastic say no what about in terms of the makeup and in terms of you know the face covering you know surely you know some women are awake up and others refuse to and wear the face covering and does Islam actually tell us that we have to wear the face covering does it tell us that this is mandatory and I mean I mean did did that person actually have a right to actually go and have an attack on this piece of clothing it's an interesting question because when you look at that same I a Sura 24 verse 31 there is a part of that eye if you look at the beginning what will the mu'minati I thought them in a sara henna way I thought not for which I don't know tell the believing woman to lower their gaze and to protect their privacy and to not reveal that which adorns them except that which is apparent now someone says what does it mean what does that mean the idea was that for example I'm a Muslim if I'm a Muslim woman living at a time I've got for example you know all my finest jewelry and necklaces and everything that is an adornment for me that is now to be covered in this new concept of modesty except for what except for my face and my hands that is what can be showing that was seen as the majority opinion of many scholars that they say that a Muslim woman can show their face and can show their hands for example some may have extended it even to the feet and they base this on traditions for example in the Shi'a school based on traditions in two ways either you go to Imam al Baqir and Imam al-Sadaq alaihi salam which is where we get most of our traditions where when they asked what is the definition or the tafseer or the meaning of walla yubdeena zina tahunna illa maza haramina they replied by saying that you cover the adornments except your face and your hands and that's why you'll find the majority of Muslim women who for example may be covered their face is showing and their hands are showing and you'll find that for example scholars like Ayatollah Sistani may Allah bless him and give him a long life you'll find that he will say that the face can be showing and that the hands can be showing however if you are showing the face and the hands then do for example do not use the face and the hands in a way in which you're gonna be attracting those with lustful intentions now that brings about the discussion so for example if you're saying that illa maza haramina is referring to being allowed to show the face and the hands someone asked okay can a woman put makeup on and I think many times when Muslims you'll have this many who look for black and white so there'll be some who'll say no makeup at all and there'll be others who'll say no I want to wear makeup completely on my face and I think there's a balance like everything there should be a balance even on this area that you'll find the maraja I'm not gonna say to you you cannot wear makeup at all there may be certain people we have to admit this that there may be certain people may skin defects for example or skin issues they may some have spots acne and so on and they may want to cover that and and also some may put subtle makeup on you know no one's no one's saying that you put like you know a particular type of lipstick which you know is bringing that attraction but there may be something more subtle and that and then there are those out there who for example will say well if I told us he's tiny allows us to show our face our hands and I'm gonna nail polish for example and once again I told us he's tiny puts the condition in his discussion that the Quran has said yes you cover your head but your face can be shown your hands can be shown but if what you put onto your hands or onto your face is gonna bring about that wrong immoral you know actions from yourself and from the man and I have to stress on the man because when the ISA is Waqollil Mu'minadi before that it said Qollil Mu'mineena yagoddum in Apsara him way a father for a job tell the believing men to lower their gaze so for as much as we're discussing that okay there is a veil and whether there is a face veil there's no face veil there is a major stipulation for for men to be the ones who are part of the growth of this moral society as well and today people say well you know so I can't put nail polish on well why are you putting the nail polish on you're obviously putting nail polish on because you think that that nail polish is something which which looks good and someone say yeah but you know that's all I don't want to attract anybody else out there with it but then it may in the greater picture there may be others who will use these to bring about you know attraction and so on and that could lead to immoral acts for example so so when you've got this some will say okay well now there's nail polish and they'll say okay how about nail polish where I want to wear it and it's not got really a color because now there's a nail polish color called nude don't ask me how I know these things but you know sometimes you research these things and you come up with with interesting facts but they ask about with or and then someone will say well I went to a store and it's very interesting they ask me can you wear you know nail polish if the water what do they say the water will permeable I mean yeah well I'm not a merger and nail polish and I don't think you know I don't see Stani is has got chapter on nail polish but if you ask the experts in there they'll tell you whether this actually is something which you can do over in or no there are you know Muslim sisters who work in these areas will be able to tell you the reality of these things for example well about say what about Hanna because Hanna is really recommended and you know a lot of sisters wear even the men wear it I think like I said you know there are certain things which are recommended by the time in a place if you're gonna wear Hanna amongst the ladies of the community there's no harm whatsoever you're gonna wear makeup amongst the ladies of the community you're going to a wedding wear as much makeup as you want but try and make sure that when the Quran has said the stipulation that you can show your face the Quran is saying also at this other hadiths and the you know the scholarly opinion are saying to us that maintain it within the world of modesty now when we come to that opinion therefore you'll find I told us he's tiny you know the great scholars many of them would have said that you're allowed to show your face and hands but there are a couple of scholars who said no amongst them I told a lot of who I told a lot of who may Allah bless his song the greatest of you know jurists and teacher of so many renowned jurists who have who are you know who are alive or have passed away he cites for example certain traditions which he then builds an opinion that no the woman should be wearing for example a face veil there is a particular tradition that he cites where one of the companions of the imams asks them about seeking the witnessing of a woman for a particular court case this can be found in in Kitab el-Stabsaar of sheikh Tusi and Saydel Khu'i looks at this discussion because the imam actually tells the person that she should be covering her face to a certain extent because they want to verify how can we verify that it is her before she witnesses and this is a difficult sensitive moment and the imam says that she should be covering a majority of her face you could for example see the eyes and that's about it and that's only because she's got to testify or he's got to testify in court otherwise someone like Aitullah al-Ku'i is of the belief that the the Muslim woman should be one who covers her face now what's interesting is that sometimes when you look at Jilbab which we mentioned earlier you look at Chador or you're looking at these things when the ladies in Iran or in Iraq in some case will speak to you they'll go like that so they're not walking the street necessarily going like that but when someone is coming to them who they may not know they will for example cover their face so you're not actually wearing a niqab but the way they put the abaya or the way they put the Chador or the way they put the you mantu or you know covering that comes with the abaya they put it in a way in which they're trying to cover their modesty with loose fitting clothing and so on so one may argue that today and the application of that could be that rather than just having a face veil directly the application may be that you know someone might be wearing a looser garment and covering their face from the foreigner because Aitullah al-Ku'i talks about the person there's someone who's Muhtaram you know there may be a bit that person's decent person someone closer to you and interestingly if you're looking at Al Kaffi or who doesn't know the faqih or on the street of Sadoq so two books of Sheikh al-Sadoq and one book of Sheikh al-Kulaini they all give narrations about Fatima al-Zahra alaihi salam showing her face now then there's this major debate that takes place what's the reliability of the tradition Aitullah al-Ku'i discusses the reliability Aitullah Sistani amongst others you know the author of the Jawahar and others who who are looking at is it true that Fatima al-Zahra al-Shawar face did Fatima al-Zahra al-Shawar face just to anyone was it just to Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari or just to Salman al-Farsi al-Muhammadi Muhtahari also discusses so you've got all these people who discussed this that you know the face veil if Fatima al-Zahra alaihi salams face was seen that means that that face veil is not obligatory whereas Aitullah al-Ku'i will say but if the Imam is talking about the niqab being worn for this woman who's got to testify in this court case or who they have to testify on behalf of why would the Aitullah tell her to you know be in that state unless they're giving us the indication that the woman the majority of her face should not be able to be seen this area above the nasal and below the forehead so it's interesting how they go back and forth in their discussion of this area yeah Sayyidin you mentioned Sayyid al-Ku'i and you mentioned Shia sources in regards to the niqab what about other schools of thought in Islam do they have any you know ruling in regards to this do they say it's margib almost the heart to cover the face it's interesting because if you're looking for example at at this a state like Saudi Arabia for example and for a long time in Saudi Arabia you had this you know these laws especially if you're going to Mecca and Medina majority of the woman that you see are all wearing a niqab and always I used to find it interesting when I'd sit in a in a Burger King in Mecca for example and you know you're you're smashing that whopper absolutely destroying it and and you've got this lady who constantly has to go like this you know she takes the the niqab off and she has a bite and then she puts it back and I think you'll see this in Dubai you'll see this in other parts of the world and I'm not making fun of that lady because it takes a lot of iman a lot of you know faith a lot of respect and modesty for her to continuously but you'll find that in Saudi Arabia for example the scholars of the Salafi school I'd say probably three of the most famous scholars of the Salafi school contemporary Ibn Baz Ibn Uthaymeen and Al Albani you'll find that a couple of them have said that it's obligatory and the other for example has pointed to the fact that it's mustahab rather than wajib and it's interesting when you're looking at the discussions there's that famous hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari I think Sa'ab Nabi Waqas narrates it where Omar bin Al-Qatab walks in where there's these woman chatting to the Prophet and they've raised their voices against the Prophet and then when Omar walks in they all of a sudden you know are scared and he's like well you scared of me walking in and all of us and but with the Prophet you're not and they're like well Omar you're fearful in your fears and the Prophet famously peace be upon his family says by the one who's in whose hand my soul is when shaitan sees you going on one path he goes on another path so when shaitan would see Omar bin Al-Qatab because of how faceful and frightening Omar bin Al-Qatab was shaitan would always look to take another path but what's interesting is that these women recognize Omar's coming they're sitting with the Prophet and their faces are seemingly showing then you have a more interesting incident I think Ibn Ma generates where there used to be this beautiful lady who used to pray behind the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family she used to pray in Jama'a but when she used to come and pray everybody would be like you know I want to go to Jama'a and when they'd all want to go to Jama'a the narrations would mention that they'd go because in Ruku they want to look at her as they're going on their way down now she was wearing a face veil they're not all gonna turn up and try and look at her yeah so we're gonna go to a break now saying that so inshallah we'll continue the discussion and you can give us your questions inshallah and after the break salamu alaykum rahmatullah wa barakatuh salamu alaykum rahmatullah wa barakatuh welcome back to live in London where we're discussing the burqa and the niqad our four lines are open so if you have a question you'd like to direct to the side call us on 0203 5150 199 alternatively you can get us on the whatsapp the number should be on the lower third there say now you were discussing the Prophet lead in Jama'a and you know there was a lot of people coming to Jama'a there was a specific reason that they will come in could you please continue yeah these quite sexually frustrated Arabs in some cases you know they or I think it's just the climate sometimes that gets to them or maybe the richness of some of the food but there was this beautiful girl who would come and pray in the Jama'a so you've got for example the Prophet praying and you've got rows of other Jama'a and then of course ladies can be behind and and what you have is that when this lady would be there these companions would would come and why would they come because in record they want to look through as they're going down to record they want to look through their armpits to see her face if they're impossible I mean well I don't know you know the Arab could do absolutely anything sometimes and and these guys would would be there and some say that the eye and the Quran Sura 15 verse 24 was revealed about them well I got Alemna musta Kareena minkum well I got Alemna musta Kareena and musta Kareena of course refers to those there was some who came before and some who came after so when the Quran said well I got Alemna musta Kareena minkum well I got Alemna musta Kareena it was saying that there are some of you who come early and then there are others of you who come late what's the intention the intention is to try and come and see who exactly that lady was now if that lady had covered her face then there is no way that they'll be looking forward to seeing her but it's only because her face was showing and so some of the scholars say the fact that that lady's face was showing means that niqab was not obligatory so when the Quran is talking about the musta Kareena and the musta Kareena it's saying that these groups were coming there for that reason that her face was showing yeah so no you mentioned in Saudi Arabia and this is what you saw I mean we have those countries out there that are implemented in Islamic Sharia and Islamic law does a country have a right to actually you know a force the hijab as a law of the land as a state law all about those who are not Muslim and they don't want to wear the hijab or cover their head that is debatable you know and I think if any country will try and make sure that their laws look after the honor and the growth of the intellect as well as the protection of people's property and religion and if that country believes that part of protection of the honor of the people is to ensure that modesty is safeguarded and that part of modesty being safeguarded is that the veil is to be worn then that's you know that is up to the country at the end of the day and and the laws that they institute and there are so people differ some say this is needed because they'll say listen if you allow a society where you tell all the men listen lower your gaze lower your gaze lower your gaze but every time the man turns somewhere you know there isn't much modesty then this could lead to immorality so why not for example institute these laws others say no that you can actually build society by building the conscience of the people in the sense that they become more conscious of the respect that's needed now some people will say well you know what typical male view that males are the perverts but they blame everything on the females okay so there are certain societies in the world whether me too campaign spread no one's forcing the veil in those societies but this guy's you know touch this girl and this guy's done this to this girl this guy's grow up this girl and all for favors or all for extra so that they can go bigger in their banks or bigger in their films or they can catch you know have a role and believe you me if people will look at certain Muslim majority countries and be like backward illiterate third world the moment that me too campaign begun a lot of those people started to go a bit quiet because the idea was we live in a society where whatever makes everyone feel good is what should be practiced okay so we let everyone feel good and then we had these famous actresses who many of us have watched their films and admired and we did not know that she had to go through the following to get the role so maybe those people who are saying to you maybe that instituting the veil or modesty in certain Muslim countries is done to lessen the amount of occurrences of such behavior does that mean you completely stop it then other factors come in because then that goes towards the discussion of what type of punishments are entailed for the perverted male again people might turn around and say Islam backward archaic what's this men are to be punished are to be whipped are to be flogged a man who comes and groups of another human being's daughter or a man who orders another human being's sister to sexually perform an act for him so that she lands a role or a job that person has to be punished there are some in certain countries who did that they still not punished because they're big names with big contacts and no one can do anything to them and their stories have all gone so if someone today is saying to me that you know there are certain Muslim countries and that these Muslim countries are countries which institute the veil and the institution of the veil is something that is oppressive okay then let's look at countries which never allowed for such institutions and it's so sad when we hear the number of ladies who were so bright and work so hard to reach where they are and the sexual acts that they had to perform as favours it's very sad yeah say let's bring it back to London and what happened with that member of Parliament did he have a right to actually criticize the veil I mean some people say covering the face makes you know makes it very intimidating their security issues and furthermore how as Muslim should we you know respond to criticism I mean did we respond in the right way I don't have a problem with someone critiquing any of the teachings of the religion of Islam I think many Muslims the moment someone questions certain beliefs or practices that they have straight away they'll shout Islamophobia I don't want to fall in the trap of those religions that always had that one word that you could always use if someone ever said something against you just throw that word on people I don't ever want to be you know someone who goes in that direction I don't mind anyone writing a whole critique of Islam and even disproving the veil but don't use terms like letterbox and burglars and things like that because that's insulting and that doesn't help bring the dignity of the site we even in the Muslim community if we have someone in our community for example is is causing antagonism and causing people to hate Islam and we had certain personalities if you remember a few years ago where certain members of the Muslim community differed with the ways that they were talking like Anjum Chaudhary and others we also in the Muslim community many of us turned around and we said that this is not acceptable the way this person is speaking about about non-Muslims and so on so critique but with a bit of respect yeah I believe I have a caller on the line hopefully this time it's going to be working we have done the test salamu alaykum rahmatullah your name and where you're calling from oh lovely lovely to have you your question please for the say it thank you very much for your question say that why do women have to go to such lengths to cover up and not really much described for men a hundred times more beautiful than we'll ever be that's the reality the male body and the female body you know and male males can never come near the beauty of the female you know it's just a wonderful creation and and even when you're looking at for example you're looking at the Quran the Quran first addressed the the modesty of the men and as I said early on the show if men are not observing the hijab that is discussed for them that is prescribed for them then you can't expect the whole burden to be placed on the woman folk of the society when the Quran said you know Qollil Bu Minina yaghoddum in Apsara him tell the believing men to lower from their gaze that is probably one of the hardest challenges that we have but we have to observe it it's a major sacrifice you know that one look there are some who want to extend that look for the whole day but you have to observe it you have to also build morality within society there are some who for example will say that even part of the male hijab is the beard you know and there are many of us who may not want to have a beard we may want to be clean shaven too many grays sometimes well the grays are cool as nothing with the grays but that is also also there are for example certain in discussions concerning the aura of the male and I think that there are many Muslims who may not be observing this Muslim males who are always quick to point out that you know the female is not covered up properly when they are not covered up properly some on their on their Facebook or on their Twitter or on their profiles on the internet you'll find that they don't mind showing themselves not wearing much that is not hijab you know so there's also that hijab as well and I think the males if they looked at the things that they were doing wrong and working on I think that will help build that moral society in many cases sometimes when we're looking at the other gender what we don't realize is much of the problems are coming because of us yeah thank you so we're talking about you know the critique and criticizing and we want I wanted to ask you how do us as Muslims respond to this I mean did we do it in the right way did it with you know because this this member of Parliament what he said create a lot of anger and a lot of you know it sparked a sort of like a little revolution within Muslims and non-Muslims alike what are the best steps for us to go and attack not attack but how to handle the situation whatever we as Muslims are on the back foot well I think it's vital for us to be more politically involved vital for us to be more involved in the world of media as well these two go hand-in-hand because in the world of media you're able to you know publicly be able to respond to these things or write articles about them be proactive rather than reactive so before he says anything like that to write an article in a major newspaper talking about the beliefs of you know all the laws of the religion so there's more awareness but politically at the same time you know I think it's important that we're there within the political scene this country allows anyone to get to where he got you know a mayor of London before and then the mayor of London after him is the Muslim side of Khan so you know a person can get into those positions I think it will help us in the future so your permission if you go to some of the questions I have from the WhatsApp and from the Facebook it says from Belfast they have in many cases we say that Muslims are declined from jobs because they refuse to shake hands with the interviewer because the interviewer is the opposite gender sometimes it's difficult for them because of their dress code and doesn't really you know work well with the uniform or of the workplace how do we deal with such a situation when one is compelled to sacrifice their career for the sake of wearing hijab in their arms it can be looked at from different angles either it may reach a stage where because of us making the governments of our you know where we live of our countries aware of our practices then the governments may institute that there are certain laws to be instituted which states that if it is a woman of a particular religion or a member of particular religion and they say to you there's a religious reason for not shaking the hand then it can be done this is something that people may have to work towards but I find a lot of the different institutions and companies in the Western world I find a lot of them are very accommodating and understanding if you look at graduation day in some universities the dean is already informed that you know if a girl comes wearing the veil then if you know that you don't shake hand and you'll see many of them who may like this for example we're not the only culture in the world whose woman may not shake the hand of someone who's not related to them for example there are other religions and other cultures who also believe in such things we may be a religion that may have contradictions so you may have a girl in hijab on graduation day who's coming up and she's like this and he's like that then you may have another girl who may be coming up and she's like that and he's thinking was this a trick moment or a trick question to why don't I so those contradictions sometimes also baffle people but I think if it comes to the crunch and they're saying to you we will not offer you a job because of you wearing that headscarf then don't think about the sustained think about the sustainer God is you know the sustainer and he'll open other doors for you in Charlotte. Excellent another question are skinny jeans allowed for women well let's put it put it out there are skinny jeans allowed for women and yeah you know it's difficult because you they look so cool in some cases the skinny jeans and I think that if a person is able to wear them in a in a state of modesty as well someone will say well that's impossible because they can never be well you may have certain woman out there who may wear for example a longer shirt and the only skinny part therefore is the the shin area I think Islam tries to talk about the fact that you know there are certain body parts where if the figure of that body part is showing or is clear then that's not to be counted as the Jill barb for example but someone's wearing a loose a loose shirt or a jacket or something and under there is skinny jeans then there is no issue there but then ultimately the highest Libas the highest form of clothing in Islam is Libas Taqwa the clothing of being conscious of Allah's presence in your social and physical etiquettes could sit here all day and talk about skinny baggy loose slim fit skinny fit we could talk about all the all day there are those who know that when I'm wearing this this is gonna bring about attraction and it could lead to immorality and there are others who are gonna carry themselves in a way in which it won't so I think ultimately the person in their taqwa and their relation with Allah is the best person to know what they are doing with such forms of clothing and the Quran says you know man is the best mirror for themselves however many excuses they make Yes, as we mentioned when it comes to Hajj or comes to Salat the face is to be showing and these are parts of the laws for the acts of worship others may say yeah these are specific laws for the acts of worship but when it comes to public interactions it's a different context yeah saying I believe we have a caller on the line Salamu alaykum your name and where you're calling from Mashallah Ahmed your question please for the Sayyid how should we you know discuss the hijab if we want to say hijab policy with our thought that we want them to wear what we don't want to wear what you mean what what you want them to wear what you don't want them to wear you're not picking up a gun on someone's daughter and telling her that listen if you don't wear this I'm gonna kick you out the house this attitude that many people have when they when they want to get married that I as the guy I'm gonna tell the girl that this is exactly what I want you and what I don't want you to wear you see you don't take as someone's you know some random girl from the street you're taking someone's daughter who's been raised in a household in many cases of respect and modesty you build with each other spiritually you grow with each other I I do believe in the idea that if you you have to be very clear from the beginning that if you intend to marry someone who is wearing the hijab or you intend to marry someone who you want to wear the hijab make that clear from the beginning because there are some who say well in the beginning you didn't say anything now why are you telling me to do this now even though they shouldn't really be too concerned about him they should be more concerned about Allah SWT but anyway but this this attitude that I want to tell her that this is what she should do know either you marry someone who's already wearing the veil and then both of you grow together or if you're gonna marry someone who doesn't wear the veil you want her to all of a sudden wear the veil then don't be impatient when you married her she wasn't wearing the veil you may have taken a couple of steps which are one way she may be taking a couple steps virtually and in a in a in another way because there are many who don't wear hijab but they are wonderful human beings but talk in a way in which you build and grow together there are some men out there who say well because my wife doesn't wear hijab that's enough reason for me to leave her no build together get closer to Ahlul Bayt there are the ladies of Ahlul Bayt set a wonderful example where when you wore the hijab you were able to defeat the empires of your time you know those magnanimous speeches of the Ahlul Bayt in the face of tyrants like the tyrants of Sham those are those are messages for us that you know what don't think that when you take a step in wearing the veil you may get people attacking you so did Zaynab you may get people mocking you so did Zaynab you may get people betraying you so did Zaynab but ultimately who remembers Zaynab and who remembers Yazid today yeah so you mentioned Zaynab we've heard that the the veils were pulled off the women in Karbala could you please enlighten us a little bit more the woman at Karbala were all covering their faces so it was seen that the Ahlul Bayt would wear the face veil it's not obligatory for some in terms of their followers but it was seen that they would wear the face veil and these face veils were ripped off their faces and say the Zaynab tells Yazid in the court in Sham is it fair that you disgrace us by unveiling our faces so that all can see us from the stranger to the acquaintance from the noble to the ignoble while there is none to defend us so yeah they they had their face veil removed people were able to stare at them and see them for the first time some people try and say that you know their hair was also showing because they see that for example in lines like the lines in Ziyarat al-Nahya al-Muqaddasa when they read the lines Nashirat al-Shu'ur for example some you know some will turn around and say that that is you know clear and obvious that their hair was now exposed but you couldn't let out your hair in front of those people who are related to you doesn't mean you're letting out your hair in front of the opposition leaders or you let out your hair but under your veil as a sign of grief in contrast to the hair that's been placed in a particular bun for example which would be the sign of happiness with the Arabs at the time yeah so then a question from what's that Salam on to ask a question how do we differentiate between Kismah also known as taqdeer and predestination specifically in terms of getting married how do we know that this is Allah's will if something bad happens or later on is this Kismah or Allah will or bad decision-making InshaAllah we have a discussion coming up on this in a couple of shows time we're looking at predestination and free will and within that discussion we'll examine this yeah so now when Europe is beginning to ban facial covering what should Muslims in the West do I mean we've already seen France Denmark have also you know joined the campaign with this happening in London is it a matter of time with this some sort of international campaign to ban the Borka full stop well as I said being politically involved is fundamental you know having a say in a democratic society I think it's something which we all have to appreciate is a is a plus while many of us may take the legal opinion that that is not something obligatory but still it could be a domino effect if you begin with the face veil the next thing that could be removed could be the head veil or the veil of the hair so I think that Muslims must sit up and take notice but I also think that many non-Muslims when they saw these wordings were disgusted by this language let's not make it out like suddenly the whole country has supported a person who has said that you know ladies who cover their faces look like letterboxes or burglars the majority of the people that we see in this country have been you know extremely supportive majority of the people that we see in this country have said that listen I'm not going to stop anyone wearing what they want to wear now that is a statement of truth with certain you know with certain I think with certain other aims you know sometimes someone says something truthfully that I don't mind what anyone wears everyone should be allowed to wear what they want that could also have other connotations but I think that they sincerely mean that if that lady and you know sometimes the image is given that those ladies who wear the niqab are all uneducated they come from villages and that's why they wear the niqab I think that that while in some cases that's true that there are certain ladies who you know make some village in Afghanistan or in Pakistan or parts of Middle East where they were forced to cover their faces when they leave their houses there are also many educated women who have decided that that for us is the highest level of Taqwa the highest level of modesty possible so let's not try and give this impression that everybody in Europe wants this type of language there are many who are against this type of language and nor should we give this impression that those who do cover their faces are uneducated illiterate woman on the country there are people who have degrees from top universities who have decided that they're that maybe the ire that you know that sort of 24 verse 31 wala yubdina zina tahunna illa liba ula tahunna except to their husbands that they only want to show their face except to their husbands and to their family members that's a decision they've taken on in life but don't insult them by saying that these are uneducated woman you know I know that there are some who unfairly forced to have that facial covering but then there are some who live in this country have decided that for them this is the highest form of modesty yeah say that any final point you want to give to our audience one question I didn't get a chance to ask you what about those who have good clear intentions who who may have a very very strong relationship with the echo mate in a strong relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala but don't cover their hair surely that I mean is not covering the head is that exclude them from such mercy from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and such don't worry about exclusion of mercy God has given is merciful to people much worse than that and the door of mercy and the door of forgiveness is always open for anyone nor should we keep entering this judgmental streak that has permeated the Muslim community where if we see someone who doesn't look religious by our barometer that means automatically those people we want to send them to hell we should be more concerned about figuring out how we're gonna get to that heavenly abode but as I said sometimes when you want someone to wear the the veil you're part of the growth you're part of the problem you're part of the solution so it shouldn't just always be males who are dictating this is how it should be done I think there are some brilliant role models who wear the veil I think you know they can be as inspiring as role models to these ladies but don't please be judgmental or rude towards anyone who in their life isn't because you know those people we don't know what circumstances have led them to this all we can do is say that we have the greats of Ahlul Bayt alaym As-salam and we try and emulate them as much as we can excellent ascent thank you very much thank you and thank you to all our audience for joining us inshallah we'll be back next week on Monday until then Salam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wabarakatuhu