 Joining us on this panel, we have with us Mr. Upan Biswas, Vice President Marketing and Business House Joy, Ajna Tiwari Naidu, Director of Content and Communications at Upgrad, Ajna Satya, Vice President Marketing at Minthra, Rahul Gandhi, CMO India and UAE at ID Foods, Manoj Agarwal, Co-Founder, Chief Product and Operating Officer at Zozo Day and to chair this session, we have with us Mr. Rael Amin, Senior Editor at Exchange for Media. A very warm welcome to all of you. Thank you so much Kelly. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I hope I'm audible. Yes you are. Thank you so much. So our topic is technology in the future of business and I want to begin and I want to go to the question is sorry if you can hear a little bit of noise at the back end if somebody could address it. My first question to you Mr. Gandhi is that we have seen the role of tech in an unprecedented way in the over the last nine months. Tell me how are brands using and evolving to adapt to a new use of tech? It has been used of course very profusely but there's a new way of engaging with tech. Can you tell me how have you been engaging with tech over the last nine months, especially during this period of high dependence on tech? Sure. Thank you. Thank you Rael. You're right. COVID-19 has been forcing consumers, brands, everyone to change their habit and most of the companies are having to rework their marketing approaches. A lot of people are stuck at home, we are seeing models like BigBasket and Amazon experience massive spike in demand. Now businesses have two choices here at such a stage, either be adapt or be left in the dust. Before COVID-19 our everyday life was going to work, going to school, going to the gym, the grocery store malls, restaurant movies but nowadays the consumers are what they're doing is they're adapting to working in front of Zoom, laptops, shopping online, exercising to a virtual teacher and mostly spending time in isolation. The digital experience have abruptly replaced these in-person experiences. However, once the crisis passes I think some of the things will go back to normal but many things will be forever different and the brands that I think will come out on the top are the ones that are ready to meet this new set of demands and new ways of finding where to reach consumers during the marketing, during an economic crisis is something that has been done very well before. Incidentally, the last time the pandemic was as big as during the Great Depression I think the swine flu and the proctor in Gamble at that point of time along with most companies were looking down the barrel and serious financial hardships. Many of the competitors were cutting advertising and essentially going dark but at the same point of time PNG at that time decided to completely change the playbook and while many people were laid off and a lot of people were spending time at home much like what is happening right now, PNG started at that point of time, I think they were radio broadcasts and a new messaging and they were marketing soap at that point of time and that's where SOAPERA as a thing got created. Incidentally, at ID, we have released five films over the last six months so we've done five films in the last four years. We've upped our marketing game as well. We know that at this point of time, the biggest shift in consumer is going to be that the content marketing will have to have a lot of emphasis on digital experiences and the name of the game will be to deliver real-time connection with bigger importance to meeting consumers on the screens that they are spending time on. So we have in fact focused a lot of effort on building content not only to advertise but also to actually address what the consumer need is at this point of time right now. So the questions that we ask ourselves in our meeting, what do our consumers need from us in this point of time? What are the challenges that they need to overcome? So for a food brand, what they need right now is a lot of variety in food. Most people are bored of eating the stuff that they've been continuously doing at home and what are the challenges that they need to overcome? They need to make sure that the food that they're eating is healthy, fresh, nutritious at the same point of time does variety. So a lot of our content marketing effort is going towards creating recipes which are not authentic but also healthy and then we also spend time thinking as to where the consumer is consuming this content. Not only us and I think a lot of brands have done some fantastic work at this point of time. I think I was reading about Viator. Viator has had virtual tours of the world that they are sponsoring right now. I mean talk about being innovative and in a tough market, the hotel and the travel industry is the worst. So I guess there's no other choice but to reinvent like PNG did like Viator is doing and a lot of our industries are down in the dumps but at the same point of time, reinvention is possibly a necessity right now and there's no two ways about it. Right. Mr. Satya, coming to you, I mean of course, I mean there has been a certain seamless kind of connect with customers from your end but I mean the last nine months specifically, was there any kind of new addition innovation from the tech side that you had to kind of consider looking at the way the market panned out, the way consumer behavior panned out? Yeah, of course, actually we have had you know living up a lifespan I would say in the last seven months. So we were at a phase where we had no business when the lockdown started to a phase where we were doing better than what we had anticipated and that was the silver lining because a lot of people actually moved to e-commerce as Rahul also mentioned. And I think, see for us, a couple of things happened where technology created a big role to answer your specific questions. First of all, the whole consumer sentiment around getting bored while sitting at home and finding new avenues to engage in on the platform that they were used to going to. So that was the first sentiment that we picked on. We launched something which was our own content destination with content coming in globally around what's happening in fashion and a lot of Indian content on fashion inspiration and fashion education which was Mintra Studio that we launched on the Mintra app and that became a sort of a good pastime for a lot of users to at least learn about fashion because we are still at a stage where we are very nascent in our understanding of fashion and we look for inspiration from across the world or from the fellow or experts. So we brought in a lot of influences and built that ecosystem and then used technology to provide a seamless experience where people could not just watch content as well as they could immediately shop that look with e-commerce platform available to them. So that's the first big tech innovation and that has scaled up very well for us. The second was I think there have been a bunch of other tech innovations it won't be just one bucket of them but as we expanded a lot of tier 2, tier 3 smaller town India started to come to e-commerce for the first time. And when a new customer or a new user comes to an e-commerce platform or a traditional platform for that matter their understanding, their expectations as well as their appreciation of the consumer journey that you have to go through to make the purchase is slightly more simplistic, slightly less nuanced compared to let's say an evolved metro user or a tier 1 user. So we had to simplify some of these consumer tech flows. We had to think keeping the customer in mind as to how they would start their journey on Mintra and how they would then to go to the purchase. What kind of creative communication that needs to happen? How can technology sort of bring about some of these things in a seamless manner throughout the app journey? So that is a bunch of take innovations that happened there which helped us sort of ride through this 7-8 month period so far. Right, coming to you Mr. Basivas, what has been your story when it comes to the use of tech as far as a new business environment is concerned? Did you also go through a certain innovation or new kind of tech innovation to kind of adapt to this new world order? Thanks Arvail. Yes and I would say no changes did not happen just after Covid. We have been trying to change the way someone constructs their home. That's one part of our business, the other being how people maintain their homes. So that started well before Covid. I would say around one-half year back when we have been trying to change the entire process of how home construction is done. So starting from the sales process where the customer not visit our office, they will get the entire master experience from it. Simple things like earlier was to push customers to visit their office during Covid. If you ask me what happened, what just happened, post Covid, we ensure that all the meetings moved online, all the transactions moved online, all the information sharing moved online. We have started doing AR videos of the homes, how they will look right. So a lot of things have happened on that. On the tracking bit answer, given that because of Covid they must step out of their homes to check how the new construction is coming up. We have ensured CCTV cameras in their where the work is happening. We have also ensured that the entire process, payment, the materials whatever is going to their site is being tracked online. That has given a lot of, has helped them a lot and given them a lot of confidence on the brand and these are few changes we have done recently in the last few months to work around Covid. Right, right. Ms. Naidu coming to you, sorry, you want to add to it? Mr. Viswas, are you still okay? Okay, I'm sorry. Ms. Timari, sorry, Ms. Naidu coming to you, tell me though there is a lot of use of tech, the prevalence in use of tech is very heavy at the kind of business you do. But in the last nine months, if I have to ask you, tell me about the new additions or a new kind of evolution that you saw from the tech end that you had to adopt to kind of continue with the customer connect you had? Yeah, and both are right. It's both Tiwari and Naidu. So you were not wrong at any point. So just say. So at tech and that's where what I represent being in upgrade is generally compared to what demonetized to financial the fintech sector for as as as against the whole demonetization, right? What what demonetization did to fintech is what corona is doing to ed tech. That's generally the the talk in the town. So I'll talk from the first and point of view and the journey that upgrade has taken. So before corona before the pandemic, we were saying the similar thing that lifelong learning is important upskilling is needed. The technological disruption will make you irrelevant, but that was never the scare the way it is right now. So if we thought that technology was a disruptor, here was corona at the pandemic. So from the edge tech sector as a point case in point, and from upgrade as specific, I think we had a great run and we continue to have a great run. The kind of interest and awareness that no money could have bought is here, sadly so, but that's the reality. The other thing is that I don't everybody says that technology is a disruptor. I feel technology is a creator just like this year 2020 and I really hope 2021 will be a better year. But if you look at it as a year of learning, it has taught us so many things. Look at all of us interacting like this. We never thought if you're going to do our business the way it is, say, sitting in our own homes or comfort of our own home. So it's a big, big teacher. So that that's one part I wanted to kind of call out. The other part is what you asked that how has technology helped us? Well, absolutely 100% right and our content range and because these are the two topics that we are talking about technology and content. If you look at our range of content, right from the brand content to the in-app content to the pedagogy led content, all of this has to be curated all of this has to be developed and all of it has to be delivered on a timely fashion. Right from right from the whole Aage K. Soch, which was a anthem, which we did it with various artists and you know, we had Radhika Aapte and all of them, which again, we shot remotely. That was that was a viral thing to the pedagogy content that we deliver to our learners every single day, remotely producing, remotely curating and remotely delivering through across the team has been a learning of sorts for us. So in short, I'll just for this point, I'll say that for a grad and for the whole EdTech as a segment, it has been a great learning journey as we continue to make our learner sharper, smarter and relevant. But if you look at other companies, other segments, and I'm being part of a lot of webinars, I see so many innovations coming out of this pandemic, which are so need based and our life is never going to be reversed anymore. Things will change, but there are some habits that are formed permanently. So that's my stance on this. Right, exactly. It takes 21 days and we're well into nine months. Mr. Agarwal, tell me your side, your story of innovation that you have undergone over the last nine months specifically. Yeah, thanks. So I am a different company from the rest of the panel here. We are a B2B SaaS company. And I can see most of most of the companies here are from the consumer brands. Now, most of the B2B companies, especially the technology companies and SaaS companies, they have seen this entire nine months as a big boon. Because the entire world is now glued to digital media and forcefully people don't have any choice but to adopt digital transformation in a lot of processes which they do within their company, whether it is within their employees or whether it is with their clients or consumers or whether it is for their suppliers. And then we as a company, we cater to a couple of personas. So we have one of the products which cater to employee motivation and engagement. Another product which caters to sales team, motivation sales team performs. And the third product which is into rewards and incentives. Now, each of the products somehow has been a perfect use case during these nine months where especially when the human motivation levels are ebsimal, because of different reasons in the pandemic, people are not connected with each other. They don't have face time. The motivation level levels are low. And that is when even any small intervention from any digital media or any digital tool, which can help elevate their motivation levels, which can help recognize the efforts which they are putting. So for example, if your employees are putting day in, day out on work, despite all the problems which they have at home, maybe health problems, maybe problems where they don't have the right working environment at home. So even small recognition, yeah, small recognition, small pat on the back, those kind of things that really motivate them. Similarly, each one of you come from brands where sales is very, very important. And doing sales during this lockdown where the budgets are very low with both the consumers as well as the companies themselves is a nightmare. And if you talk to any sales guys, I guess, apart from the healthcare professionals and the public services guys, sales guys are under the heaviest pressure because I mean, people are looking for revenues to run the companies and sales guys are under pressure. So how can you really accelerate sales without kind of breaking them down? And any any such tool has been really helping companies to kind of keep their sales intact despite tough times. And one more thing which we have, one more very interesting thing which is happening in the global scenario, especially from a global perspective. And as Archana mentioned that, that is going to stay is the world has become, the world is disconnected physically, but the world has become flatter and flatter. So today, we had an inertia that I can't sell in the US unless I am present in the US physically, or I can't sell in let's say a small town unless I am physically present there, but that inhibition has gone away suddenly. Both the brands as well as the consumer is now receptive to online buying and selling. And that is a welcome step for any company which is into digital way of selling and buying. So these are couple of positive steps in these tough times and yeah. Perfect. I want to come to you Mr. Gandhi. These nine months have also been a period of deep thinking and kind of introspecting about the way we do conduct business. The strategies have been reversed. A lot of changes have happened. Tell me from your standpoint when it comes to the use of technology and content to target audiences, are there some new learnings? Is there a new kind of science at work, a new playbook at work that you have observed? Yeah, actually more than a technology point of view. I think the right content strategy during the pandemic is very important. I think as a brand ID has always stood for the mother archetype, somebody who's offering comfort food. And our focus has always been on positive brand messaging and positioning because when we do come out of this pandemic, people will have a sense of your business. The sense may be negative or positive depending on the calls that any brand takes during this point of time. What you choose to do as a business right now will actually shape your business in the future and we've seen lots of brands, not lots but maybe a few brands get it wrong during the pandemic. It's very important that while we're disseminating our campaigns or our marketing efforts that we don't look at somebody who's taking advantage. Marketing still needs to happen but to avoid taking advantage of this situation to score a business profit at all costs, we've seen some people get it horribly wrong in the recent year. So while yeah, keeping your business afloat is crucial but it should not come at the cost of a human emotion or a human life. It may get your good boost initially but it will hurt your brand in the long term. And I think also very important is to actually, especially for a brand who wants to embody the caregiver, I was to offer support and help. I remember around, I think it was April 1st or 2nd week when all of us were lining outside grocery shops and we had no idea where we'll get our next meal from because there was a sudden sharp or huge mongous lockdown and all of us were standing outside grocery shops and people were actually looking for food right now. That's the time when ID actually saw a big spike in sales and we got a lot of consumers writing to us that my mother is in Delhi and I'm in Bangalore. I don't know how to cook, where can I find your food? I think it was April 12th or 13th at that point of time. ID was one of the first brands who launched this store finder kind of a thing where people could go on the website and we are a company who actually delivers to the store daily. We have a daily service model and our entire distribution infrastructure is owned by ourselves so we don't have a distributor. What that allows us is that we know each store's stock on hand and how much we are selling to them. We decided to actually offer help to the consumers. We actually started updating all this data on the website. I said go, if you're really, the guys were really desperate and they were and some of them are old also. Some of the old people could not go to stores. Young ones like us could still stand outside stores for us but some of them were not even healthy enough to go travel outside. So one thing we did is we said they're okay in a circle in a radius of one or two kilometers. If you want to find your store, this is the store and this much batter, this much paratha, this much paneer, this much curd, this much coconut, we've delivered to them. Please go find them. And then the second thing we actually started doing is we like, okay, there are lots of COVID hotspots where we actually need to directly go to the consumers. So in some time in May, we started going to apartments directly. Lots of people stopped us from doing that saying that what are you doing? Your distribution cost is going to kill you. But lots of people also did not think that when you sell directly to apartments, you're actually selling at MRP, which means that the 20% retail margin is saved and you can actually reinvest into the, so we started doing what a branch should have done at that point of time, which is to offer support and help, tell the consumer where the food is, when you're the short of food, deliver it to the doorstep in case they're not willing to step out of the door. And no matter what content strategy you build, always factor in that there are always going to be ways and help the technology and help you support people. It can come in this form, it can also come in ways of making donation to support your local businesses or offering time to educate them like Upgrad is doing. I think it's important to be empathetic at this point of time as well as balance optimism and sensitivity. Mr. Siddiqui, I want to come to you with a similar question that when it comes to the use of content strategy and technology, have the practices been same? Of course not. I mean, before COVID and now where we are and what were the key learnings of what is the right mix that you have found to target consumers effectively and build that consumer-centric approach in this current milieu we are living in? Yeah, I mean, see for me, the biggest learning has been every content campaign needs to start with a clear objective. Right? And objectives can be different across campaigns. I think one of the mistakes to avoid is to have a common objective of user engagement and just apply it left, right and center across everything. And I think the world is extremely dynamic right now. The contexts are very dynamic. So just to help you explain with an example, content could mean anything. It's not just about great video content coming out, but even simple content where you're trying to sell a product to the user and a very different on the other end of the spectrum, something which is meant to inspire the user to start considering you as a platform or as a brand. And then the purchase decision may happen maybe after a few months or a few weeks. So depending on the objective, I think the content has to be first charted accordingly and inspiration content would look very different compared to, let's say a sale content because both of them have to work at different parts of the funnel and lead the objective. The second part of that is the right personalization and targeting. With digital, it allows us now to really, really micro segment users at very minute levels and be able to smartly give the message basis what you know about them already. So I think these topics have been discussed to death across forums, but I think the beauty of this is to be able to practice that and execute that at scale and create an operational machinery which can execute creative creation at scale because that is where I see a lot of people getting challenged. Eventually you end up having a very limited set of creatives and then you have to target let's say 5000 customer cohorts and that becomes very difficult. So one, how do you use technology to automate a lot of this creative creation? That's where technology plays a very important role. Second, how do you use technology to be able to take quick decisions on what is best for that customer business signals you have received in the recent past and be able to integrate your analytics systems along with your decision-making systems along with your creative systems. So there's a lot of operational work at an organizational level that needs to be done to be able to get to that level of targeting and I think there is still a long way to go for a lot of organizations including the best of digital organizations to get to a market especially in India which is just a collection of multiple continents if I may say. So even within languages there are so many nuances of the context in which you tell the story to the consumer and whether it is a digital brand or an offline brand that level of personalization makes or breaks the case in terms of the final objective achievement. Right, right, right. Ms. Naidu, asking you this same question, what is the rule book, the playbook, the new playbook at work when it comes to addressing and targeting consumers in the right way using technology and content? Is there a new rule book at all and what is it? So it's on mute I guess here. More than the rule book, it's the stance of the organizations across that has been taken. So somebody spoke about what are you delivering during this pandemic in this nine months, right? So the brands have to deliver value, they have to deliver trust and they have to deliver empathy and for them to deliver these three things you have to believe in that and everything else that you do emancipates itself, manifests itself into what you call it content or brand or outreach, right? That's the basis mode point. We all know that content as we knew it has undergone so much of change, but if you add these three, four lenses to the new normal as we call it though I hate the term because it's so done to death. But if you look at the realities that surround us today, if your content is not delivering value, trust and empathy, thinking from the point of view of your customer, it is not going to resonate as they say real resonates. Storytelling that is why is become mainstream, which was never the case. Storytelling is a mainstream. Storytelling today is has been proven to be a art science which delivers commerce. So that's the my stance on storytelling, which is a very human thing. If you add the AR and the VR and the AI's of the world, it kind of becomes our tools or the vehicles to deliver those emotions to your customers. So that is the second point. The third is more from a point of view because you asked what have we been doing. Like Rahul said that during the pandemic, we have done a lot of free courses because we understood that a lot of people are losing their jobs. That's where our empathy comes into play. That we say it's all right. We will make money. But right now, let me help you with some just in time learnings, which will help you to learn and make sure that you're relevant. So for us, like I have been saying, content has so many different faces. If you look at the brand campaign part of it, whether it is the whole donkey ad that we did which got us a lot of media and a lot of virality, where we were called out that don't lick ass, kick ass. Now, for an ed tech brand, that was a stance that we took. Love us, hate us, but don't be indifferent to us. So that was from the emotional point of view that everybody feels that I don't want to be an ass licker. But have we said it? No ed tech brand has said it. And we did it. If you look at the whole motivational content that can I motivate because you can give everything to everybody. But till the time the person does not have the aspirations, you're not going to move mountains. So what can we do? So the whole thing, I'll give you such where we created this UGC led anthem. If you look at if you look at our pedagogy course, the whole blended learning, we're getting we're doing course with so many international universities, technology comes to our rescue or to ours, BR strength in every possible way. We are doing so many live lectures, we are doing so many webinars, we are doing so many blended learning, we are kind of curating the whole simulated learning as per the aspirational job kind. So it's going hand in hand. And the two, like I said, technology is a is a creator, not a disruptor. You have to learn to live with technology and make it a complimenting factor. So yeah, right, right. Mr. Biswas, you heard the pandas before you talking about the contextuality of messaging and the emotional tone that they took. Tell me, how did you use the content and tech to address that environment around us that we had? We basically focused on two things during the pandemic. Number one being our business model is slightly different from the business models of delivery or business models, where in the customer, the service provider doesn't enter the household, right? For a brand like house job, the service provides entering the household engagement level is far higher. So the trust level needs to be far higher for which we discriminate content around the safety aspect. And we also ensure through our app, our customer gets to know simple things like what is the temperature of the service provider who is visiting their home, right? Is he fit enough to visit the home or just to build that trust. Also around the same time, we also ensured that if the customer, the service provider is not well, it doesn't seem to be about the customer has the right to reject the service provider just to add that level of trust and relevance for the brand. In addition to this, we also around the same time, we realized given that the service providers were not allowed to travel because we'd never, we'd not fall in the essential category. We started doing DIY videos wherein small hacks, right, which makes sense for the customer. So we also have beauty vertical wherein we provide beauty services at home. So small hacks, which a lady or a guy sitting at home can take care of hair cut, how it is to be done, right? Some funny content around that, which also have a lot of engagement. We tried this and this has worked well for us. We tried changing the way we look at the metrics of content and how content is judged, right? Earlier it was only about views. Now, after the pandemic, we are realized for brand like us, we don't believe in spending and just for the sake of GMV revenue, we try building sustainably and we are almost at a breakable level right now. What we believe is content that makes sense for the customer, where the customer is sharing the content with his or her friends. So we look at shareivity as one of the most important engagement parameters for us. And also we have divided content for us into three, four different buckets. So as I spoke about useful content or content that is a customer can, that is kind of changing the world, which is trying to engage the customer inside the emotional man or the product delivery of the customer's life. They divide content with different buckets and try creating content on that and we have seen good response from that. Right, right, right. Mr. Agarwal, you bring in a different perspective, as you said earlier as well. Have there been any new solutions when it comes to contextual messaging with an emotional awareness that brands are looking so far during this pandemic period and which it seems is going to prolong for some time? Have there been new solutions around? Yeah, so Agarwal, I think during this entire pandemic, what has happened for the last nine months and maybe continuing for the next few months as well is that everyone in business has got a pause and a lot of time to kind of look inward. Because most of the times we were generally as brand guys or content marketing guys, we are distracted with the external world. We keep looking outward and we keep looking outward for solutions, whether it is through events or digital media or maybe conferences, etc, etc. But during the pandemic, the only tool which you had for marketing was around content and how you distribute your content. Most of the other things were not really practical. So that was the only choice. Now, but this has led to some goods and bad. So it is kind of a double S sword here because everyone is now having a lot of time as well as content is the only choice. Internet is littered with content. I mean, everyone feels like I am doing great content, but is it the content for Google or is it the content for the customer? That is a question which every brand should ask because there are various ways to hack Google algorithm. Google can always keep a step ahead, but a brand manager will always go step ahead then Google to find those hacks. And that is how this entire push and pull works in digital marketing. Now, the problem is that how do you really break this litter and how do you do more quality and less of quantity? Because everyone thinks like he is a job with doctor. He can write beautiful content and versus, but not. And especially I am talking about the B2B context because our target audience is generally the CXOs of the world, which don't care about content which is very shallow. I mean, the content has to be really, really deep. So what we did in this entire pandemic is that how can we create very deep content which is written by experts? How can we give very insightful content, which is not like my me too kind of a content, but which really adds value to the consumer apart from adding value to Google algorithms? And how can we use the entire philosophy of less is more rather than more is more because you can bring very good impact by doing less content, but very, very awesome quality. So that has been our learning and that has been our differentiator during the pandemic that let's create awesomeness in content rather than just pushing it out. Absolutely. Wonderful words and I have another five or seven minutes to go. I want to fit in as many questions hopefully. My next question is in the world of AR, VR, AI, big data, where does empathy figure and how do brands build that in? We are targeting customers and minutely looking at them, looking at data, where does empathy factor in and how do you enable it? Mr. Gandhi starting from you. We are at a root or a very empathetic brand. I think firstly, the best way to be empathetic is to be true to yourself and to the consumer. Yeah. So if I'll speak like a food company should, if I'm marketing healthy products, they better be healthy. If I'm marketing no preservative, chemical free, all these kind of products, not only should I be true to that, but the safety and hygiene factors that I should be following right from the factory then to the vans that are going and delivering to the way my products are kept in the store, I should be true to it. That's the best way to be empathetic is to actually be true to yourself and be an empathetic brand. The other way to do it is that empathy is not something that is marketable. If you're an empathetic brand, if you actually are an empathetic person who's devising solutions for the consumers, thinking and bearing in mind, what are the support and help that the consumers need, the consumers will give you back long-term. You educate the consumers on what healthy food habits are, you engage them in creative ways and you entertain them somehow, the consumer will actually trust you back. So I think COVID-19 is going to stay here for a while and its impact will be felt for many years, but the unfortunate reality as it may be, as a marketer what we could do is we should make sure that we keep the customers like we keep our wives safe, healthy and so forth. We should create, we should be true to ourselves as brands and individuals and we keep customers like our wives and they should be happy. Yes, Mr. Seethe, your approach and how do you factor this in? Yeah, I'll stay away from keeping customers like wives, but I think for us, picking up from what Rahul also said, what is the true value of the brand and the purpose of the brand and how does that connect with some of the human values of the people around you, for us, for example, fashion is a great enabler for a lot of people. It is an enabler for building confidence, it is an enabler to open new doors, it's an enabler to present yourself with a much more, I would say, confidence is one word, but in a much more empowered manner or at least whether you are presenting to others or presenting to yourself in front of a mirror and feeling that empowerment internally, fashion has a big role to play and I think across generations, we have seen whenever there has been a big depression, there has been something culturally which has evolved and led to an evolvement on fashion, right? Lipsticks were evolved like that, short skirts were evolved like that, right? So fashion and culture are so deeply tied to each other. Now, for us, when we think about any piece of content and it doesn't matter, whether it has to go to multiple segments or how we target it, I think the idea and the philosophy is number one, is it being helpful to the customer and different customers have different paradigms of what helpfulness means for some being highly valuable from a pricing perspective is being helpful, for some being inspirational in terms of, okay, just opening my eyes, okay, this is also possible is being helpful and for some very, very coaching or mentoring sort of role where you tell them, okay, with hacks, with DIYs and these are the five ways of creating a budget-free look or a budget look is going to be helpful, right? So you figure out what is being helpful to the customer and then ask that question each time that a piece of content gets created is, does that meet that criteria? Second is, I think also Manoj made a good point is, it's not about volume, it's about making sure that the quality as well as the context in which you are making that conversation with the consumer is very well articulated in the beginning and that's why I mentioned in the beginning, starting with the objective, right? So if you're talking to a CXO, the objective of the campaign is very different. It is right at the last level, they will want to go off the funnel where they would want to move from intent to consideration to actually deep evaluation versus people when you are building a point to talking to new customers, I think awareness is the first thing you will look at and at that time, I think the message has to be extremely simple and very, very high level for people to just appreciate that, okay, you play a meaningful role in my life and at some later point in time, I'll come and sort of talk to you and at that point, I'll engage that customer with a different kind of content which is far more nuanced, right? So those are some of the things that we look at as Mintra, which is how can we be more helpful and use fashion as an enabler for our audience? Right, right. Ms. Naidu, your thoughts on building in a world of deep tech, high tech, how do you ensure, I mean, you spoke about the campaign with kind of voice the emotions, but how do you build it always and keep that mindset of empathy first? Yeah, I think empathy, empathy has to be lived and delivered more than anything else. And once you live it and when you deliver it, it shows, like I said, real resonates, right? So it's a very important aspect while like I said earlier that technology, whether it is deep tech or the any form of technology will only be a vehicle to transport what your thoughts are. Empathy for different brands mean different things. We being in ed tech and we are responsible brand first of all. Like Rahul said that if it is food, it better be authentic and if it does not have preservatives, better not have preservatives. The same logic is for all brands and education and learning is the most sacred and I will use this word with a lot of responsibility because you are dealing with people's future, you're dealing with people's livelihood, their kids and their families, life depends on the kind of education that they will have. So we have to be very, very responsible, along with being empathetic, because we all know that the intent is there, people are being extremely insecure about their jobs, rightly so because it's technological change and pandemic. So lack of time, lack of money are the two biggest problem areas but I have an intent but I don't have time, I don't have money. How do then a brand like us respond to these realities of my TG by being an empathetic brand and that's why all the things that I told the whole three courses, the 10k courses, you know, beatdowns, that's again something that we have penetrated and I did not speak about it but sadly most of the marketeers and most of the brands when they are talking about their product, when they are talking to beatdowns, they don't have customized solution, they just juxtapose the same solution to them but the people in BNC towns do not have similar realities, case in point being during this pandemic and before girls of BNC towns had aspirations, they wanted to go out of their town but they could not go out for various reasons. Now because it's now a, you know, fence less world, suddenly the whole online reality has come to them because their brothers or their neighbors who are boys are also learning online and they say, hey I don't need this limitation in my life just because I can't go to a next district level or a city level office. So I'm saying at so many levels, empathy is at play. You have to understand your TG so well, you have to understand the pain points of your user so well. We talk about user journey and we talk about all kinds of journey but do we ever feel their journey? Do we ever live their journey? So brands need to do that in a real sense rather than make it as a part of their marketing strategy. Absolutely wonderful. I think understanding customer touch points is not just about data but also about emotional, the way they can consume brands. Mr. Biswas, your thoughts on this, how do you kind of listen to consumers if I have to say this and build in a certain connect with this empathetic? I think empathy is not only should be a value meant for consumers, it's underanalyzed the whole organization is empathetic towards its employees or it's a part of the brand system. It's difficult to be only empathetic towards customers. So I would like to sign certain things which we have done internally as well, like taking care of our, because of construction as well as on demand business if they don't fall under essential services. So for those three months of lockdown, we ensured that we tied up with Give India. We tied up a couple of other NGOs to provide for the construction workers who are almost not everything. They are daily wage earners. We also started a couple of other businesses like Outdoor Mart and which also ensured that the service providers get something to earn. So on one side we ensured the service providers are earning something by delivering the groceries. On the other side, we reached out to a customer base and targeted mainly the slightly aged customers who find it difficult to go out of their homes during that time and targeted them so that they can use the service. In addition to this, I think another most important aspect of empathy is not being product or service focused but understanding what benefit that service is providing the customer. So trying to understand what is the customer gaining out of it and talking in that language. So safety is, as I had earlier pointed out, safety was one of the most important factors making that. Previously one of my previous experiences was on the kitchenware segment where selling a non-stick pan versus selling a pan which is not customogenic in nature is very different. So we used to highlight what's the most important aspect customers getting for customer wants to based on say keywords and trying to target those which I think is helps which helps and which has shown the results as well. So that's my take on it. Perfect. Last words Mr. Agarwal, how do you see this? Yeah, I think Esarpan mentioned that empathy has to be lived right from the DNA of the company and then transferred into the customers and your suppliers because then only you will be able to actually leave the value with your customers. If you don't practice it internally, you can't practice it externally. Now when it comes to how you show empathy, there are different ways and especially from a B2B perspective, a lot of things which we do is in terms of proactive support that instead of waiting for the customer to come to you because of certain issues, can you be proactive enough to kind of inform the customer? Because if you look into the Indian context today, I mean apart from pandemic, there are several other issues like somebody seriously ill, there are issues in the family or there is a cyclone out there, somebody's electricity is gone suddenly. So instead of waiting for the customer to get irate and shout at you, can you be a little more proactive saying that there is a downtime for my servers today at 2 to 4 p.m. and please expect some downtime in those hours. Similarly, how can we add a human support to a lot of AI and NLP which we do? And this is something which every consumer would have faced that they are talking to a bot and then the bot is not able to answer their queries and they get stuck and they are running from pillar to post, they do some WhatsApp in some groups that hey, can I get the contact of the HOD of this particular company and I am stuck in a problem. So how can brands add a human touch to their bots and customer support so that the customer is not only relying on those AI algorithms. And then from a B2B context again, how can you make your product so very simple that it is easy to use, it is easy to onboard. There are various ways of onboarding your customers in a very easy way so that again you show empathy right from your product onboarding till the time the customer is consuming that product. And each touch point has to be checked in depth that yes, I am empathetic to the consumer need here. Thank you so much. I think we are out of time and Ms. Naidu has a meeting at seven. Thank you so much Mr. Gandhi, Mr. Satya, Ms. Naidu, Mr. Biswas, Mr. Agrawal for joining us. Thank you everyone.