 Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. On this program we never shy away from controversial topics and today is no exception. My guests Jenny Sansoussi and I will be discussing the healing properties of cannabis, CBD, and medicinal mushrooms. Jenny is a health coach, wellness blogger, and the author of the new book, The Rebel's Apothecary, a practical guide to the healing magic of cannabis, CBD, and mushrooms. Now she became an expert on these ancient remedies after her father was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. As it turns out something that was once considered taboo was key in helping her dad. So she's here today to tell you how you can use these plants and fungi safely. Jenny, welcome to the program. Thanks so much for having me. Well this is gonna be fun. So can you start by telling our listeners about why and how you got interested in mushrooms and cannabis? Sure, yeah. Well in 2017, Thanksgiving 2017, my dad was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer as you said, and that moment was a real before and after moment in my life. If anyone has been diagnosed with cancer and knows someone diagnosed with cancer, you know that hearing that information just completely changes your life in one instant. So as soon as he got diagnosed, I knew that I wanted to help in whatever way I could, whether that was with nutrition or supplements or cooking for him or finding remedies that could work for him, plant-based remedies, anything that I could you know could get my hands on. I wanted to I wanted to try to find for him and I had been working in the wellness world for many years and I had some connections with functional medicine doctors and people in the wellness arena and so I had this arsenal of people to reach out to and ask you know what are the things that I should look into when it comes to helping someone with not only treating the cancer but really helping with the chemotherapy side effects in the immune system because I knew that I didn't know much about chemo or cancer at the time but I did know that that chemo can really affect the immune system and people can not tolerate it sometimes because their immune system is so weakened. So I just thought you know what can I do to help my dad and I just went full force into the research and cannabis and medicinal mushrooms were the two things I kept hearing about over and over again and once I started to dive into the research there it was really really promising so that's the route we decided to go on. So just so that everybody understands your dad was getting chemotherapy and so you're not going to come on and say you my dad never got chemotherapy all he did was have a joint and chew on a mushroom and he's cured. No in fact in fact my dad was definitely sure that he wanted to go the traditional chemotherapy route for treating his cancer and I was not about to try to you know get him to do otherwise I'm not a doctor so I was not gonna I wasn't gonna go there but I knew that I could support him with some home remedies and we you know we talked to his oncologist and we got his oncologist on board with all the different things we were trying and he said you know I don't know if this is gonna help but it probably won't hurt so go ahead and we'll just keep monitoring his progress so he has the you know the chemotherapy regimen at the hospital and then we've had our our home regimen that we've been doing on the side. You know that's actually great to hear because I work with a lot of cancer patients as well and so many of their their oncologist tell them no you know you may not do alternative therapies during this chemotherapy you know how dare you don't even come near this stuff it will hurt your chances so tell me actually tell us about that process how did you how'd you find an oncologist that lets you do this number one yeah that's a really good point because I hear that from so many people that their oncologist said no absolutely not don't try cannabis you know medicinal marijuana CBD mushrooms they say maybe it will hurt or they just don't have enough information about it to be able to say it's okay and luckily for us we we were paired with an oncologist who was open-minded to it he definitely did not recommend that we do it and he said you know this may not do anything but I'm not going to tell you no so he didn't we were really lucky in that sense because a lot of oncologists don't do that so what I always tell people to do is when they speak to their oncologist about potentially using home remedies and their oncologist says no maybe you'll agree with this I always say what's the exact reason why they're saying no is there something specific to your condition maybe there is maybe there is a drug interaction maybe there is something very specific to you and you shouldn't use these home remedies or you know if not like maybe ask the oncologist if you oncologist if you could try it for one cycle you know until your next scan and see if everything is still okay you know if there's not a specific reason to you maybe maybe they'd be willing to just let you see how it goes for one cycle so what made you tell us about the your research that said you know we need to look into cannabis and CBD and medicinal mushrooms what brought that to the forefront well one of the things that happened really early on when my dad first got diagnosed is he watched a documentary about medical marijuana and it was and he had just recorded it because he thought it looked interesting he wasn't even interested in it for himself he just wanted to watch it and it was all about cancer patients that were using medical cannabis and having really good results you know not only with their cancer but with their with their side effects of their chemo and so he his ears perked up at that immediately and at the same time CBD was just starting to emerge and one of my friends said hey just look into CBD and cancer and see what you find and I started researching that I found so many stories of people who are using medical cannabis and CBD who have cancer and were experiencing relief and then I started to look into studies I went to a medical cannabis conference I started to get in touch with medical cannabis doctors and asked them what their experience had been and I just went straight down the rabbit hole and I was you know I was really impressed by what I found in medical cannabis and then with the mushrooms I had already known that medicinal mushrooms could be helpful for the immune system that was something that was already in my consciousness but I didn't know a lot about them and when I started to go down the route the route of researching mushrooms I found so much information there is about medicinal mushrooms being used in cancer hospitals and other parts of the world and people using it to help their immune systems and it was really really interesting okay so explain to people as as if they don't know the difference may hopefully most people know so what's the difference between cannabis CBD and medicinal mushrooms and our medicinal mushrooms different than magic mushrooms yeah so cannabis CBD is part of the cannabis plant it's a compound within the cannabis plant and it's a compound that doesn't get you high so THC is the compound that most people are familiar with inside the cannabis plant that does get you high so they're two different molecules that are both within the same plant the mushrooms the medicinal mushrooms all the ones that my dad is taking and most of the ones that I write about in the book are completely non-psychedelic so there's you know when people think about mushrooms they usually think of grocery store mushrooms like button mushrooms portabello's chrominis or magic mushrooms that are going to take you on it on a trip there's another class of mushrooms that's considered medicinal mushrooms which is they're edible and you know you can consume them and they have medicinal properties but they're not psychedelic gotcha and you want for the listeners you want to name some of those medicinal mushrooms yeah yeah some of the the ones that that I cover in the book and that my dad has been taking every day chaga mushroom reishi turkey tail is a big one that's one of the first ones that we got him started on shiitake is a wonderful actually a really great one for right now too because it's shiitake has been shown to be antiviral so that's a really interesting one to look at lion's mane and cordyceps and my tacky I believe those are those are all the all the ones and then I do I do cover magic mushrooms a little bit in the book too because there's some really interesting things going on in the research with with psilocybin which is the compound inside magic mushrooms but that that's not the main thing that that we've been focusing on but it's definitely an interesting one to pay attention to alright so you keep bringing up the immune system with mushrooms in terms of medical marijuana and CBD where where is the benefit that with this in in cancer patients sure well yeah with the immune system with the with the cannabis what we had found with our research into cannabis is that THC and CBD both have properties that have been shown to kill tumors and and slow tumor growth and they can help with the immune system there's not enough research there yet because they can't do clinical trials on cannabis because of the legality so this is a lot of preliminary research and anecdotal stories so that's with cannabis with the mushrooms all of the mushrooms that I just mentioned aside from magic mushrooms but all the medicinal mushrooms that I mentioned have been shown to have immune system modulating properties so they don't necessarily stimulate the immune system or you know dampen the immune system they balance the immune system so they're they're considered adaptogens so they can just help keep your immune system in balance and all of them are really powerful for you know keeping that immune system strong yeah we I have a patient who oh I think he's now ten years out from stage four pancreatic cancer and he we treated him basically with a raw food diet and a lot of mushroom extracts particularly coleus turkey tail and he's like I say knock on wood he's cancer-free now for ten years and that's amazing now so I'm I'm I'm a huge supporter of you know using plant-based therapy in cancer so and I'm you know again I've seen it with my own eyes and and written about it in my books so can any of these I know that when you they have chemotherapy it's not exactly the most wonderful trip so and a lot of patients complain of pain of GI upset of sleep of energy loss anxiety what's the deal with these compounds with that yeah well the cannabis my dad the cannabis that my dad has been taking in a lot of other cancer patients also take this it's a very highly concentrated cannabis oil that comes in a little plastic syringe and you eat these small droplets of this cannabis oil tiny tiny droplets the size of a grain of rice and that can give you around 50 milligrams of THC and 50 milligrams of CBD if you have a one-to-one ratio product in one drop so that's a very high dose for people that don't know about 10 milligrams of THC is considered a recreational dose that someone may you know use to get high so 50 milligrams is a really really high amount so you have to really start slowly with that kind of medical cannabis product but what my dad has found with that it has really really taken away his nausea completely he's barely ever had nausea and it's two and a half years in now he's hardly had any nausea his appetite came back as soon as he started taking this cannabis oil which a lot of cancer patients I'm sure you know they completely lose their appetite they lose so much weight and that really contributes to them feeling sicker and sicker as time goes on because they're not able to nourish themselves so that was amazing right off the bat he started to be able to eat full meals again and feel really well and then he sleeps great because he takes a higher dose at night he doesn't like to take a higher dose during the day because he still wants to get things done and not feel too you know impaired by the THC but at night he's okay taking a little bit more and he has slept well the entire time so I think that has been the main thing that's helped ease his side effects from chemotherapy and then I believe that the mushrooms are what's keeping his immune system strong so he hasn't been weakened by the chemo got you so your book is trying to remove the the drug stigma of cannabis and mushrooms why is that important to you well yeah you know when I quit drinking and quit using all drugs back in 2007 so it's been for me I swore off cannabis and mushrooms back then and alcohol and you know I used cannabis and mushrooms in college recreationally and I never thought of them as medicine I never would have even had a reason to think of it as medicine and so for me that part is really important because my perception of all of this has completely changed throughout my research and I've done so much research now into you know the prohibition of cannabis and you know the legalization of psychedelic mushrooms and it is just it has always been focused around patients and I mean of course there's people that that want to use a recreationally but there has been so much focus throughout the years on you know getting these plants to patients who really who really need to find relief and I didn't realize that before so it's really important to me to try to help to shift that perception to see how these can be medicinal for people and that it's not just about getting high or or going on a mushroom trip it's it's so much more than that so you mentioned that the dose is is enough to get you high what if what if you don't want this effect how do you avoid it yeah so if you're using these in the in the book I do talk about a lot of different wellness wellness topics and not just cancer so for cancer patients specifically if you do want to take the THC and use that medicinally and not feel the high you're just going to want to work up really really slowly a tiny tiny tiny amounts of THC for most people two milligrams of THC is the the threshold if you go above two milligrams you can kind of start to feel those those intoxicating effects if you start a little bit lower and move up you know every few days a couple more milligrams and just monitor how you're feeling that can be a really helpful way if you don't want to feel it at all I would take a high CBD product with little to no THC in it and that will you know give you the medicinal effects of the CBD without without having the THC but they do work better together so if you have a little bit of each in there they boost each other up so if you can tolerate a little bit of THC for the medicinal effects that's great but you don't have to you know and if and if you're not using it for for your cancer journey and you're using it more for wellness then you can absolutely just take a high CBD product with very small trace amounts of THC okay so let's get away from cancer for a minute and let's talk about wellness so give us your take give us the thoughts or the book on why these may promote wellness how do they promote wellness and let's go from there sure well one of the things that I found right off the bat through my research for my dad was all these different ways that it might be able to help me to which is you know a totally different realm of why I use them versus why my dad's using them but for CBD in particular some of the the main things people use it for are pain sleep and anxiety those are probably the top three and I personally found help with sleep right away and the interesting thing with sleep anxiety and pain is that a lot of times when people can't sleep it's because of anxiety or pain either they they have some painful part of their body and they can't sleep because of that or racing thoughts having having those anxious feelings during the night not being able to sleep so using the CBD can take away the thing that is keeping you from sleeping and help you sleep deeper which is what I experienced because I can have anxiety when I'm trying to fall asleep and before I started on CBD I would frequently you know take a long time to fall asleep and then wake up a lot during the night with racing thoughts and when I started the CBD I was really able to to sleep better so that was that was awesome and as far as the pain goes there was another kind of before and after moment that my dad experienced the CBD which was before he got on the medical marijuana train he was just taking CBD because that's all we had access to at the time and what he noticed right off the bat was that his joint pain went away just from taking the CBD he was taking CBD capsules and he said I don't even need to take Advil anymore he used to you know have all this joint pain walking up and down the stairs he's been an athlete his whole life so he has all these aches and pains and he was like I'm I'm impressed by that and he's not one of those people that just gets on the bandwagon quickly you know so he that was really impressive so the pain sleep and anxiety are three things that CBD can be amazing for so let's I have a lot of patients who have tried CBD primarily for sleep and for pain and I would say that just as a general rule 50% of them seem to respond and 50% of them don't and of the people who respond what's been fascinating to me is half the people particularly with pain respond to the topical CBD but don't to the oral and the other half they respond to the oral but not to the topical so help me understand this what's going on well yeah from a base level of why people respond to it differently is because we all have an endocannabinoid system as I'm sure you know in our body that responds and reacts with the cannabis directly so and everyone has their own Dr. Ethan Russo who's a cannabis researcher he calls it the endocannabinoid tone that we all have this baseline tone kind of like everybody has a different digestive system you know your gut flora is going to be different than mine you have a different endocannabinoid system than me so you may have different levels of natural cannabinoids which we make in our body in your system than I do so the cannabis will well and CBD in particular will kind of raise those levels raise the levels of the natural cannabinoids that we have in our system so if someone has a lower amount versus a higher amount they're going to respond differently which is why dosing can be really tricky and is really really personal with CBD dosing and method of delivery like you said some people will respond to a topical some to a tincture it's all going to really be based on the person's individual endocannabinoid system so let's talk about dosing and how do you know what you're getting obviously marijuana and CBD are legal here in California and we've we've got these shops almost on every street corner now and how do you figure out okay is this stuff legit this stuff came from hemp this actually came from the marijuana plant some people argue no no you got to have marijuana based CBDs hemp CBDs no good come on help us sort this out yeah well you're you're lucky to be in California because I really think California especially at the licensed dispensaries have have have it figured out in a really wonderful way I wish that all dispensaries could be like the ones that I visited in California and that's because they have a very wide array usually of ratios a product ratios out in California with different levels of CBD to THC that you can pick from and choose your your ratio because like I said if the more THC in a product the more you're going to feel those intoxicating effects and so you know you can have a ratio of eight to one CBD to THC or 20 to one and you can try all these different ratios to see what works for you so I think that's wonderful but to answer your question the most important thing right now when you're looking for a product especially a CBD product that's not from a dispensary because those are unregulated you want to make sure you find a you have a third-party lab test so that's to show that the amount of CBD that they say is in the product is actually on the lab test so if it says 25 milligrams per serving you want to see that on the lab test as well and you want to make sure that it's negative for heavy metals pesticides residual solvents that could have come through the processing because CBD like I said is totally unregulated right now it's really important to get those lab tests if you do get it from a licensed dispensary they have stricter regulations with the kind of products they're able to sell so you're probably better off that way but even if you're getting it from a dispenser you may want to ask and see the lab test to make sure what what you're getting is really what it says on the label so if I'm on my road trip and I stop at the gas station and they've got CBD oil at the checkout counter which I've seen that's probably not the one I want to buy it's probably not no I would not recommend CBD from a gas station for sure yeah you really want to do your research and make sure the company is is doing like I said those third-party lab tests meaning someone else is doing the lab test it's not affiliated with the company so they can't you know make it up and it's and you want to make sure that they're using safe practices and then just answer your question about the hemp versus marijuana right now it's all um uh legal terms so hemp hemp-based CBD versus marijuana-based CBD is basically just about the amount of THC and other cannabinoids which are other compounds with within the cannabis plant that are in the product so if it's hemp hemp-based CBD it's basically just very very minimal THC was going to be in that plant that that was grown for that CBD and if it's marijuana-based CBD it basically just means that in that plant there was a higher level of THC and this is all you know these numbers are are just um kind of you know the numbers that they're using to differentiate these plants but it's it's all the same comes from the same plant at the end of the day now bring us up to date um the DEA once classified this substance as really nasty stuff where do we stand where do we stand with the DEA and where do we stand with the FDA with these substances well right now um cannabis is still a schedule one drug federally so I hope that that will change I don't know for sure when it will I mean people predict that that will change within the next couple of years CBD in as of 2018 became legal federally which is why you see the CBD boom everywhere so CBD from hemp which just means 0.3 THC or less is federally legal anything more you have to get from a licensed dispensary which will be different in every state some states have medical dispensaries only which you're going to need a medical card in order to access those products and so you have to go to a doctor get approved for a medical marijuana card and then you can go to a dispensary some states have recreational or adult news dispensaries which is usually 21 plus and right now it just varies from state to state so things are changing every day my hope is that it will become federally legal soon all right i'm going to throw you a something out of left field uh what do you know about black urine disease i've never read that before oh good okay so I have a very good friend and I won't mention his name who ran a company that was really big into CBD and kind of put their whole careers into that and was working very hard with the FDA to get FDA approval for CBD and you probably know that the FDA does not approve CBD yeah and interestingly enough and I did not know this because he said I'm sure you've heard of black urine disease and I said no I I haven't he said well it turns out that too much CBD can actually affect the same receptors in the liver that Tylenol hits acetaminophen and can actually poison the liver and it was discovered because some very heavy CBD users noticed their urine was turning dark like they had hepatitis and it got the name black urine disease and he tells me and I'm not I haven't talked to the FDA about this that the FDA is worried that big time CBD use and I don't know the dose may potentially damage the liver and that's why they put the brakes on this but but look it up it's fascinating yeah you know I have seen some things talking about CBD damaging the liver because of studies that they did in mice or rats and from what I could gather from these studies the amount of CBD they had to give these rats was was huge like thousands and thousands and thousands of milligrams of CBD like what it would what it would equal with the human it seemed very very like a huge stretch to me but I will look that up and see see what the what they're saying about black urine disease because that sounds pretty scary and you probably couldn't afford to take that much right exactly well so let's get back to that is there is there evidence is there at least anecdotal reports about the amount of CBD that you have to use to be effective uh you mentioned that everybody's endocabinoid system is different so what what what should people look for what do they try what do you recommend yeah as far as dosing I mean I've heard from doctors that practice with with cannabis medicine that some patients do well on five milligrams of CBD and some people do well on 500 milligrams of CBD depending on their condition so it's really really different but what I can say is a starting point for CBD you want to start really low and take it by itself and monitor how you feel you know every 15 minutes like do you feel anything different do you feel you're more relaxed do you feel any relief of pain do you feel any relief of anxiety or whatever it is that you're trying to find relief from and pay really close attention and only take more if you feel no nothing if you feel nothing take a little bit more but you could start with like five milligrams even something really small and see if you feel anything if not you know around 15 to 25 milligrams is a standard dose for people for many people a standard kind of wellness dose and then if you're having a high amount of pain or anxiety you may need to take you may need to take a little bit more and just kind of move up until you find the relief that you're looking for or switch products if it's if it's not working for you or methods of delivery there like you said before you know topicals work really well for some people for people for pain for anxiety a lot of people like to take the tincture under the tongue because that works usually within 15 minutes or so and you can really measure your dose drop by drop so i would suggest starting with a with a sublingual tincture because that that's how you can really really get a measured dose and say okay i took this this exact amount where where some of the other methods you can't always know exactly how much you're taking okay so we talked about anxiety pain sleep and you used the buzzword the wellness dose of cbd so again help me experimentally anecdotally where does cbd fit in a wellness regimen sure well like i said before we all have this endocannabinoid system in our body that cbd works directly with and we have our own molecules inside our body that work with this same system that cbd can help to regulate those those molecules and they affect things like you know pain sleep the immune system anxiety depression mood you know mood they have they have so many things that this endocannabinoid system affects it really keeps you in homeostasis or keeps you in balance so taking cbd as a daily tonic is kind of you know tonifies your endocannabinoid system and can keep things in balance many people just find that taking it you know a daily as a daily thing whether it's at night or during the day depending how you respond can just make you overall you know feel more balanced got you okay uh interesting um Dr. McCullin and I have talked about cbd for sleep when we've been on each other's podcasts and we back years ago now did 20 milligrams of cbd sublingual before bed and tracked our sleep with an aura ring which i'm holding up wow camera and quite frankly uh neither of us found any effect on our sleep and as i recall and i won't put words in his mouth he even tried it with thc and also found no effect for him or me so we both kind of stopped doing it but you're right maybe our endocannabinoid system is so phenomenally balanced and i hope it is uh that maybe we would not see that effect so that yeah or the other part is that sometimes taking certain amounts of cbd or thc can be more wake promoting for some people and especially taking a little bit too much thc can kind of make you have those racing thoughts or can cause anxiety for some people so that yeah again it is it is so so personal and some people will say hey i take cbd it makes me more focused and awake and some people say they take it and it makes them fall asleep so it's um yeah it's an experimental journey all right so i'm sure everybody wants to know because you're a rebel apothecarian uh should we be regulating these substances what's the best approach to regulating them if they should be regulated yeah i mean i like i said i really think that some of the licensed dispensaries in california are doing a really good job with with the way that they are providing their products i think that cannabis products with thc should be most likely just allowed in licensed dispensaries but i do think it should be federally legal i do think that people anyone that wants access to cannabis medicine should be able to have access to it i don't think it should just be you know sold at gas stations and have these low quality products on the market i think that there should be should be testing third party lab testing for all cannabis products and all cbd products i do think that they should be regulated in a way where they have to you know contain exactly what they say on the label so yeah i do i do think it should be legal federally and just as long as as long as the regulations are in place to keep people safe so we're not going to pull up to the gas station and get a uh six pack of beer and uh and a brownie to go i would say make your own brownies at home which there are some recipes in my book aha i knew i could get a plug in for you there but as far as i will say also with um you know with the magic mushrooms and legality and regulation there um the predictions that are happening for those are that they'll be legal within therapeutic settings because they are researching them for depression and even you know comparing them to ssri depression drugs and seeing you know how they affect people so i think that those mushrooms which are are currently illegal as well will um will be available for use in therapy and i don't think those should just be you know available at a gas station either those should be you know closely monitored yeah michael polin has made a i think a very strong point that there is good increasing evidence that there is some bona fide medical use for these i think particularly in depression um and uh yeah we need and you you know you argue for this that we need to look at this as another federally regulated licensed use of these products for specific reasons right yeah absolutely and i think you're right and maybe you talk about that the use of these products kind of in your own home is probably at least in our state of understanding not a great idea this should be taken with a practice professional in a setting in a controlled setting what say you i say if we're talking about psychedelic mushrooms yes i would definitely recommend that people don't just try it alone whether it's with a trained therapist or someone who has a lot of experience guiding people through these types of sessions i i definitely think that having having guidance is the way to go yeah i had a personal experience in college where um i one of my members in my singing group uh dropped acid and uh decided to we were on the third floor of our dorm and he threw up opened the windows and decided he was going to fly and luckily i grabbed him by his belt and pulled him back in this is a true story so i i firmly believe from personal experience that this should be done in a guided setting yes yes i agree when if you if you take a little bit too much of a psychedelic compound you mean it can take you to places that you aren't ready to go by yourself so definitely right and third including the ground from a third story window yeah all right well jenny this has been great thanks so much for joining me where do they find out about you your book your work well first of all thank you so much for having me this has been just such a great conversation and i'm glad you have so much personal experience with the topic too that makes it really enjoyable to talk about so thank you um my book is called the rebels apothecary so you can buy that anywhere where books are sold except right now we can't go into bookstores so online you can find that um my blog is healthycrush.com and you can find me also on instagram jenny sancisi healthycrush.com i'm sure there's a story what's the crush well the healthy crush i've actually been writing there since 2008 so i've been uh blogging about wellness and personal development topics for quite a long time and the healthy crush just kind of popped into my mind the tagline is a love affair with living well okay the way the way i've always felt about you know finding out about new wellness topics and getting excited about them and and sharing very good very good okay it's time for our audience question uh sandra lilyana on facebook asked is keto diet safe for people with heart conditions believe it or not i do use my version of the ketogenic diet for my patients with heart disease who have also for instance diabetes as a co-founding factor and as a cause of their heart disease the key in my ketogenic diet is you got to eat about 80 percent of your calories from fat but that fat shouldn't be rib eye steaks it should be fats from avocados and for you people who are watching i have avocado socks on today and they should be from olive oil and the more olive oil macadamia nuts you eat macadamia nut oil sesame oil the better and the key of a ketogenic diet is to really severely limit your carbohydrates to really leaves and vegetables that are going to carry olive oil and avocados into your mouth that's totally different than a paleo or carnivore keto diet where the vast majority of the foods you're going to eat are heavy cheeses heavy meats heavy fats you know three bottles of cream every day that's not what i use for my heart disease patients so you got to be careful in the term keto diet there's a good way to do keto and there's a bad way to do keto particularly for heart disease so that that's a great question sandran thank you very much all right jenny thank you again and good luck with the book and best wishes to your father how's he doing by the way he's doing fantastic i've actually been quarantined up here with him for the last six weeks and he has felt so good the whole time we keep saying we forget that he has cancer he's been off of chemo now for the past three months i'm just because he's been doing so well that his oncologist said why don't we give you a break and his blood markers are in the normal range his tumors have all been stable so we're happy hey very good very good all right keep up the good work great thank you so much thanks for having me take care and now it's time for the review of the week following my most recent episode on COVID-19 guido brunelli jr on youtube wrote thank you dr gundry clear info without fear and hype well thank you that was concise and we're trying to give you the up-to-date information without the hype without the fear because as you know i'm dr gundry and i'm always looking out for you so we'll see you next week thanks for the review before you go i just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on itunes google play stitcher or wherever you get your podcast because i'm dr gundry and i'm always looking out for you