 Good afternoon everyone. First, I'd like to express my gratitude to Veronica for her leadership in putting these conversations together I'm just gonna offer a few remarks to frame the conversations. We will have today in the summer of 1967 Martin Luther King's where do we go from here chaos or community was published and in this text Dr. King implored Americans to resist the idea that the nation was quote Essentially hospitable to fair play and to the steady growth toward middle-class utopia embodying racial harmony King reflected Unfortunately, that is a fantasy of self deception and comfortable vanity Nearly 50 years to the moment that King began gathering his allies to mount the poor people's campaign In what would be the final year of his life? We gather today to consider the ways that inequality persists inside and outside of our institutions in our classrooms at The benches in our courtrooms at the ballot box and on the corridors of our main streets To resist a desire to confuse the progress of some for the liberation of all in the decades Since King warned us that if we move deeper into chaos, we will never realize the fullness of community We have seen an unprecedented shift in civil rights legislation gains in educational attainment wealth accumulation and political power among populations historically disenfranchised disempowered and Distanced from the courtroom the classroom the ballot box and the main street while these signs of progress were all around us Visible in media in business and even the White House Another force perhaps a force greater than the sum total of all these outward signs of change And that force was the machinery of inequality the policies the rhetoric The practices that have left a critical mass of people behind and an almost as insidious Mechanism that makes the most vulnerable in our society the most low reviled and hated in 2017 our challenges are uniquely different than those of King in the last year of His life yet as we see the assault on voting rights on public education on Credit and lending and in the delivery of justice and accountability We realize that we cannot rely on the ill-fated notion that time heals all wounds This is what King warned us of in his address in Washington, DC four days before his death He urged Americans to resist what he called the myth of time He wrote it is the notion that only time can solve the problems of racial injustice And there are those who often sincerely say to the Negro and his allies in the white community Why don't you slow up stop pushing things so fast only time can solve the problem And if you will just be nice and patient and continue to pray in a hundred or two hundred years The problem will work itself out King continued this is another myth. It's that time is neutral It can be used constructively or destructively and I'm sorry to say this morning That I'm absolutely convinced that the forces of ill-will in our nation the extreme right of our nation The people on the wrong side have used time much more effectively than the forces of goodwill And it may well be that we will have to repent in this generation Not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people But for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people who sit around and say wait on time Somewhere we must see that human progress never rolls in on the wheels of inevitability It comes through the tireless efforts and the persistent work of dedicated individuals and without this hard work Time itself becomes an ally of the primitive forces of social stagnation So we must help time and realize that the time is always ripe to do what is right So today our conversation does not rest in the self-deception King tried to lead the country out of Rather these conversations are grounded in a sobering reality about where our nation stands today Fragile but fortunate Precarious but powerful because of the courageous leadership of the people we will talk to today So my first conversation will be with new America fellow Nicole Hannah Jones about education Hi, Nicole. Hey good to see you You too, I just saw you a few minutes ago. I know we had lunch So you have devoted I think when we were talking you said 13 years of your life To looking at this issue that I think many people believe they understand But through your excellent award-winning reporting you show us that we don't understand and that is school segregation So when you look at the narratives the master narrative about what's happening at schools. What have we missed? So I think when it comes to school segregation, there's three myths that Seem to persist one is that we tried really hard to integrate and it was just too difficult And that's why we have segregated schools. It's actually not the truth We didn't try that hard for that long and when we did try We were able to make a great deal of headway The myth around that is also around that it was busing that destroyed our efforts to integrate schools But American children as long as there have been school buses have written buses to school There's a reason why the school bus is the most iconic image of education It's because kids always roll buses and actually for most of the history Kids were riding buses in order to maintain segregation and busing only became a problem when it was in order to integrate But most places actually never bused for integration though that is that is the myth about that And I think the third have I named to you've named to okay the rule of threes The third is that we can somehow make separate Equal now that prior to Brown v. Board yesterday was the 63rd anniversary of Brown v. Board prior to Brown v. Board. We have understood that separate was Unconstitutional but now we feel like Because we don't have laws mandating segregation that the segregation of black and brown children is somehow not as harmful And that is somehow not as morally repugnant and that's also not true If you look at the data collected by the US Department of Education You can predict the quality of education that a student will receive by how black the school is to this day And there's never been a moment in history. We have given black students the same resources as white Part of something we were talking about If you've read the warmth of other Sun's incredible book about the great migration There's one story in it that I think really captures this moment in which an African American man from the South goes to Chicago And he's seated at a bar and he orders a glass of whiskey and he's very happy He has this opportunity and after he consumes the glass of whiskey the bartender breaks the glass in front of him as Reminder of something that he has touched is no longer valuable and to essentially discipline him in the ways that we know Racism does and in many ways what I I perceive is happening is that our nation is Breaking the whiskey glass. We're destroying it because it has been touched or there's been an attempt to touch it And I think in many ways we see that with schools one of the strategies to not integrate schools Just just burn the school down or cancel the entire school year And so what have been the mechanisms that have been outside of the laws that school districts have used to maintain segregation? So it's interesting because we are now at a time where the woman who is leading the Department of Education Is someone who in many ways opposes the ideal public schools and what we know is that? Support for public schools and other public institutions began to erode after the civil rights movement when legally black people began to get access To the public for the first time And those two things are tied together so eroding support in public schools occurs in communities where there are Diverse student populations. There are many many ways that we accomplish this now school districts gerrymandering tenant zones to make sure that white Parents have majority white schools to send their children to we're now starting to see a lot of school districts trying to break off Or communities white communities in urban areas trying to break off from predominantly black school districts So that they don't have to send their kids and even pay tax dollars to support children who they don't think are like them We're seeing The school choice movement which a lot of communities have embraced actually has its roots in resistance to desegregation you never had school choice until Courts started to order black children into white schools, and then we saw this rising of choice vouchers are the same thing vouchers also came out of the resistance to school desegregation in the south the first time you start to see vouchers are when courts are ordering desegregation and the vouchers are Actually being paid for by the state to allow white children to attend segregation academies. So all of these things That 50 years ago and 60 years ago. We understood we're clearly to oppose Black and white children being in the same classroom together. We're seeing the same tactics But now there's a veneer of respectability and now we can pretend that it's not about race But what this what the research shows is that the motivation is still race It allows for a level of clean hands and it seems like our new racial projects are about people not getting messy when they get Involved in it One of the things that we were chatting with earlier was when we think about the problems of school desegregation and segregated schools We often focus on the children but we know that schools have to operate with a number of grown-ups in the building and this leads me to this question about Some of these statistics that we have a majority minority public school system in the United States and that in the 2011-2012 school year 82 percent of teachers were white And so we have this or if that data is incorrect you can tell me more a little off It's a little off. Is it is it too high or too low? Well, we don't we don't have a First I would never say minority or majority minority because I think that that gives people of color a permanent inferior status And also numerically it's not possible But our school district our overall public schools are actually about half and half right So we have not reached a point where students of color are largest But almost we're almost there and in that in that process though We do see declining numbers of teachers of color. Yes And how do you think that the the workforce in teaching and school administration can either exacerbate these problems or actually Interfer with them. So this is actually one of the unintended consequences of Brown v. Board of Education prior to Brown v. Board Black teachers were the ones teaching black children and as soon as desegregation started black teachers Were not allowed to teach white children in white schools And so those teachers were often laid off. They're often fired black principals were fired and it was black schools that were closed And we've never then recovered the number of black educators that we had at that time And I think there are there are severe consequences. I mean there were there are numerous studies Including one that just came out last month that showed that white teachers actually have much lower Expectations for black children then they do for white children and that then manifests itself in the achievement gap that we see Where even if black children are getting access to integrated classrooms their teachers are still not believing that they actually can achieve at The same levels of black students. I think it shows up in the curriculum I think it shows up in how teachers are teaching history how they're teaching English It shows up across the spectrum and I think is very problematic It's also problematic because a lot of teachers are teaching children. They actually have no experience with their teaching children from communities That they don't have experience with and that has also led to high suspension rates High expulsion rates and much harsher discipline in the classroom One recent study showed that if a black child particularly a black boy has one black teacher in his life He has a much higher chance of graduating. That's very powerful And it's amazing how many black students never have a black teacher But also importantly it shows that children of all races actually Prefer to have teachers of color and actually do better with teachers of color amazingly And when you think about the research that you've done and the reporting you've done and now that you're working on a book project So I think I want to kind of close with this question of audience Because there's a serious assumptions about this type of work is meant to talk to some people and not others But what at the end of the day? Do you want the audience to imagine after they read your book? That's an interesting question I Think lately when I've been giving my talks the first thing that I do is I show pictures of Children and these children are black children in segregated schools because I think while adults are fighting about what politically is acceptable and whether we should and can Integrate schools and give black children their constitutional right to a equal education We're forgetting that we're all fighting over kids We're fighting over Keeping some kids away from other kids and I think that that is the most critical thing is these are American children These are our children, but we don't all think of them as our children I think I was telling you earlier one of the the questions that I get sometimes when I give talks and almost always I'm giving talks in front of very white very progressive audiences and what people say to me is How do we get the people who really need to be here in the room? like conservatives But I'm not actually writing to conservatives because frankly conservatives are not the problem The problem are White progressive people who say they believe in equality who say that they believe in integration But they choose something very different when it comes to their communities If I could just get people who actually believe in integration to live lives of integration I will have succeeded without ever having to like convince someone who has opposed integration to change their minds And I think that is the thing that we need to get over I live in New York City can't get more progressive than that I live in a city where the mayor ran for election on the tail of two cities and who refuses to touch the issue of school segregation in The most segregated large school district in the country So that is my audience my audience are people who say they believe that this is the right thing, but do the wrong thing Well, this I said that was gonna be a last question, but what a second so schooling really rests at that perfect storm of the intersection of personal choice and structural inequality and so When we think about the kind of questions that people ask you in the hallway after you give the lecture What are the ways that we can That your research and your storytelling can help us understand that those two things are not as disparate as we imagine The problem is choices based on the system of capitalism Right, which is the market schools are the market and as we know when when there is a market There will be winners and losers. Some people get access to something great and other people won't I think what my work is trying to do is not make the argument for choice One cannot at the same time say I want equality for all children, but I also need an advantage for my own child Those views are actually antithetical to each other. Can you say that one more time for the one the best? I mean and I get it. I'm a parent your instinct is to try to get the very best for your child But if you're going to do that you have to understand that that is in a Where we have limited resources that is coming at the cost of someone else's child someone else's child who is already disadvantaged in every way We are capitalist country and I believe if you pay for schools You can get what you pay for but if we are Proudly promoting our belief in public schools There should not be some public schools that are offering Lavish luxury education to some kids and other public schools like the ones I just got back from visiting in Detroit where they don't even have enough seats and where kids don't have textbooks, right? Like this is this is the system that we are holding up So if you believe in the public part of public schools that it means that your child's going to get the same Education that another child gets the reason that integration is so important is not because Magically black kids become smart when they sit next to white kids. What they get is what white kids get Thank you on that note. I want to thank you not only for this conversation But I also I also want to thank you for your your commitment that this isn't a story You did once and it was kind of cool, but this is really a sustained effort that takes a lot out of you personally But also helps us make better choices and be better people. So thank you for that. Thank you Hello everyone Well, like we will try to Recreate the situation that you all just Were privy to and try to have a meaningful conversation here. So Thank you for coming. Thank you. I guess I should say that I Upfront should acknowledge that I'm a huge fan of your work. So I want to maybe start by I think in the same way that The previous people in these chairs started by discussing the Ways in which we talk about the issue I want to talk a little about the ways in which we talk about inequality and the growth of inequality right now I wonder if you could identify for me what you see as I guess sort of the Large sort of myths or themes that you find problematic, but are often repeated So some of the large myths and themes that are Wide-spread and often repeated are pretty much the politics of Responsibility the notions of if you do this you do that you will be fine and there are opportunities in America Probably the primary indicator to dispel some of that mythology is also the primary indicator of one's Life chances and that would be wealth if we know for instance my work with various colleagues that when you Look at black individuals where the head of household graduated from college The net wealth position is going to be less than that for a comparable white family where the head dropped out of high school So that's telling that right if we know all the things that wealth brings about the people if you're confronted with Crises in your home if you have to you know it pay for an expensive medical bill And you don't have health insurance if you want to finance an elite education I can think of any number of things if you want to have political influence a primary Determinative that would be net wealth or net worth wealth and yet We know that black households when we talk about a middle class there virtually is none when we talk about wealth There is no black middle class. That's that that's the reality We're in so that the rhetoric around responsibility can be I can I'm gonna not go ramble on too much But the rhetoric around responsibility not only is it fictive and not true, but it's also harmful It's harmful because it removes public responsibility from addressing these structural issues if the issues are Engaging in the right behaviors then the argument against the argument for austerity policies are why give Resources to areas in which they won't have return and then the second thing is you know even even worse is why incentivize bad behaviors with resources So that's what comes about from the politics of responsibility, but you know, that's not the reality we're in so well, I wonder given that what you make of the Intense and it seems very large interests that exists right now in growing inequality in white America and The very real challenges that many working-class white Americans are facing and really participating in the new economy I wonder if you think that is in some way Advancing the inequality conversation isn't moving us out of the Personal responsibility sort of narrative or is Something else happening. Yeah, I mean a narrative is hypocritical to begin with right we when we characterize white family struggle We don't usually come up with the notions of you don't work hard You're not playing by the rules etc. Etc. It becomes the economy has left you behind It becomes outsourcing etc. Etc. So You know Merit and facts don't necessarily support the arguments But you know this election can inform us a lot about what's going on with regards to narratives And I let me really even emphasize this we know what to do about inequality We know what to do about about poverty. We're not short on policies I can think of some bold policies to address these issues the issues become narrative and political do we have the will to to check to come up with a society that really Empowers people so that they can be Self-determining and achieving their goals that right. I think we can do that But but going back to this election when people say that the results were a mandate with regards to class It doesn't seem to follow with regards to how people vote it The demographic income group for which Hillary got the most Hillary Secretary Hillary Clinton got the most support was the low income group now Of course, that is the group for which you might have the most diversity in our country But nonetheless if you move up the income scale that is where Trump started to make Get a lead etc. So What this election was about Codifying the property rights and whiteness Trump ran on that message So despite how the journalists might characterize the results of the election his messages of make America great again his message of here's one that didn't get a lot of attention, but thinking about the demographic change that that is Been projected to a comp to come where whites will no longer be the numerical majority Trump said literally I am your last chance. So what was he appealing to he was appealing to this codification of whiteness so that their relative positioning would would not worsen Given the demographic changes this pending Could you explain in just a little more detail what you mean by the property rights rights of whiteness and working to Limit the slide of white Americans with respect to other groups of Americans. What do you mean by that specifically, right? So we care about our absolute positioning But we also care about our relative positioning and I think that goes under emphasize We not only care about material being our well-being, but we care about our psychological well-being. So there are real Psychological benefits as well as material benefits Associated with group membership and group identity and we need to realize that I mean especially when we start talking about coalition building if we're talking about coalition building we need to be honest and frankly The question of would white working class individuals be better off from a coalition with other identity groups is Somewhat of an empirical question. I know the way I'd like the answer to be but if I'm honest throughout history white people have benefited at the expense of others and to ignore that narrative does a disservice to history and it also leads us into a realm of of delusion But you know what so let's think of some tangible things The unemployment rate at every level of education is two to one for blacks compared to whites We know that infant mortality black women with a college degree are More likely to have an infant mortality or deliver an infant mortality and comparison to white women who've dropped out of high school so You know these are hard facts to deal with but the reality is their tangible benefits associated would be in White I can talk about other ones as well. So those are real material consequences, but also relative positioning. We as human beings we care about where we relatively stand and The promise of I'm not at the low end, but I have I might be at the middle at least I'm not as bad as those other individuals Well, well that that matters to people. So I don't want to give a complete pessimistic view I think that and what we can do as a society is Evolved to this position where we recognize that how we define Economic well-being economic health is not solely determined on growth. It's not solely determined on GDP per capita But rather I like a martyr sin to Nobel laureate when he talks about we need to come up with defining development in terms of human capabilities and the way I would interpret that is Allowing people and truly empowering people with the agency to be self-defining and self-determining in their and their and their Their goals and what they want to achieve and again There are lots of policies that we can do to give people a base so that we say as a society We're gonna give you these resources so that you can achieve your higher goals And we're gonna provide a baseline by which you will not be pray to the market or pray to other forces It might be predatory. Well, since you've mentioned the word policy a few times and we're in this room I will go ahead and ask you about those bold ideas, but I wonder if you could Perhaps share with this audience your boldest ideas that you think would also begin to Address something that you mentioned to this idea that wealth is actually effectively being transferred in the direction of white Americans every day that's right, so Reparations that's that's the most obvious one we can do and people talk about the political moment. Can we achieve it? Etc. There were points in South South Africa's history where post-departite was unattainable unfeasible politically not not plausible, but reparations first and foremost in large part because of the dignity that a harm was committed against an individual the Recognition that we need redress so it's not only substantive, but it has significant meaning as well But then when people say okay that politically it's not plausible, etc. Etc. We can use with what? Richard Reeves and Elizabeth Saw Hill at The Brookings Institute to have coined the term race conscious universal policies and there's several of them that we can think about For example my colleague William Darity and I have talked about baby bonds. It's not technically a bond It's a trust setup at birth so that individuals when they become a young adult They can have access to some resource or seed capitals so that they can purchase an asset that will appreciate over their life Passively and provide them that economic security so imagine as a young adult We know that some individuals because of the links of the family in which they're born into Will get some form of a transfer to allow them to get a down payment on a home to allow them seed capital to start a business Whereas other individuals will have family obligations out of altruistic motive to help their family members So we want to come up with us I think we should have a society that frees individuals from the birth The family in which they're born in in a positive way so that they have an opportunity to accumulate Economic security over their lifetime. I'll give one more now a federal job guarantee That's not pie in the sky. We can think of productive work that is not being done by the private sector It really needs to be done That are associated with infrastructure building and both the physical and human infrastructure We can formalize care work that women are doing already with the dignity of a wage and benefits associated with that And again, we can think of all other types of work that can be done But the federal job guarantee not only provides Individuals who want a job a actual job with livable wage But it also enables current workers by getting rid of the threat of unemployment It is that threat of unemployment that is the biggest constraint on labor bargaining powers So if we really want a capitalist system where there's fear We would as fair trade between workers and and owners of firm Then we need to empower workers so that they're not destitute by a threat of we'll take something away from you. I Think we're out of time. Oh, but I have plenty more that I could ask So but I appreciate it and thank you for your time All right, so we'll continue the conversation and move it to the courtroom I wanted to start off by just Showing some very quick not showing but telling you some very quick statistics about what it looks like if you're particularly if you're black and and or poor and and In the court system So all the stats show that marijuana use for example is even between black and whites But blacks are three and a half times more likely to be convicted of Drug possession of marijuana possession than whites are If you look at drug sentencing across the board blacks are 10 times more likely to be convicted for a drug offense The worst offender in the nation is Wisconsin where blacks are 42 times more likely to be convicted of a drug conviction drug possession Innocent black Americans are seven times more likely to be convicted of murder three and a half times more Likely to be convicted of sexual assault and 12 times more likely to be convicted of drugs than innocent white Americans so The the odds are stacked against you before you even walk into the courtroom, and I'm so happy we have Marilyn Mosby here to talk about this. So with all these disparities in your experience Can you just talk about what it is like for a black defendant in the courtroom? And as a black woman what what it's like from you know looking at this issue from the other side of the So Ted when you think about it If you're an African-American male in this country, you are pretty much an endangered species Not just in a city like Baltimore, but every urban city across America and what I mean by that is and I'll use my city as an Example when you live in a community where they're 24% of Baltimore's population lives in poverty You know 35% of children live below poverty where you have 18,000 vacant houses 16,000 vacant lots the unemployment rate for young African-American males between 18 and 24 is more than twice that of whites When you consider the fact that you have liquor establishments and the number of liquor establishments in the city far outweigh and Are the same amount as excuse me three times as much as the state of Rhode Island when you think about the Transportation system in a city like Baltimore and the deteriorating educational system The decks are really stacked against you even before you walk into a courtroom You could even look at those systemic issues and say that is probably how you got there, right? so What ends up happening when you you do come into a courtroom is that you have a bail system that Makes millions and millions of dollars on the backs of black and brown poor People so then you you get into a courtroom and you have under representation You have under representation when you look at the public defenders you have under representation when you look at the bench and of course you have under representation when you look at Prosecutors across this country. So from my perspective, you know, I one of the reasons why I wanted to become a prosecutor was to reform the criminal justice system and Looking at the awesome amount of sort of discretion that prosecutors have that not only affect defendants and victims But have collateral consequences on our communities. This is the reason why I wanted to be able to address these systemic sort of issues Right. Wow. And so it is is representation one of the answers to this I mean do a more black judges will that help decrease the disparity where more black public defenders just decrease the disparity or the Problems so large outside of the courtroom that it will continue to be just a reflection of our so it's a multifaceted sort of approach I think first and foremost you need representation as an African-American woman I can tell you that prosecutors, you know, we have to think about what it is that they do prosecutors Determine who's going to be charged what they're going to be charged with what sentence recommendations They're going to make and when you look at the disproportionate impact that it's had on communities of color You have to consider the fact that 95% of the prosecutors in this country are white 79% of the prosecutors in this country are white men and as a woman of color I represent 1% of all elected prosecutors in this country So representation is extremely extremely important And I believe that prosecutors are probably the most important actor in the criminal justice system They are going to make a determination as to whether or not an individual even get into the system Or they will be diverted from the system, you know One of the things that I've tried to instill in my prosecutors not only in recruiting and retaining a diverse sort of group of Prosecutors all with a moral compass who come from these backgrounds and have life Experiences that will allow them to utilize the discretion in that in ways that address these systemic issues But really trying to instill upon them that it's not just about seeking convictions you as a prosecutor You are the administer of justice and so that's something that we try to instill through you know The training of prosecutors we prosecute 50,000 cases a year in Baltimore City Realizing and instilling in our prosecutors that it's not just a number You know in their training they go into the jails and you know They see the collateral sort of consequences of their individualized Decisions, right so if you were governor or President and you or the Attorney General at Department of Justice would what would and you had to Just a laundry list of items for criminal justice reform What would you prioritize to try to get rid of some of the disparities? What changes would you like to see so first and foremost we cannot afford to regress, right? We can't afford to Regress and that regression cannot be touted as making America great again We cannot allow that to happen and what we need to understand is that all of that sort of The mobilization for criminal justice reform is going to come from a local level like it's not going to be on the federal level We see with the attorney attorney general is trying to take us the failed policies of the past Which got us in the positions where we saw uprisings all across the sea all across the nation So first and foremost, I would say that we collectively need to ensure that we're supporting local officials local prosecutors making criminal justice reform a number one priority not being distracted by the tweets and you know the antics of The White House. I think that we have to stay focused And one of the things that we can do is a representation because there is an under representation in law and in the criminal justice field I think that we need to still prioritize when it comes to addressing Prosecution from a holistic sort of approach not just being tough on crime We can be tough on crime for the most violent offenders individuals with no code of ethics killing women and killing children But we need to be smart on crime. What does that mean? We need to understand that when we talk about these felony convictions when young people between the ages of 18 and 24 get these Felony convictions, they can no longer apply for a job They can no longer apply for housing they can't go back to school because they can't get any financial aid And so what are the recourse to they have but to go out doing what they were doing in the first place We have several sort of initiatives at least out of my office where it's it's modeled after senator Kamala Harris is back on track Program aimed to be more for first-time nonviolent felony drug offenders They go through a probationary period whether I'm life skills. They learn job training skills They do community service and at the end of that probationary period They're given a job and their felony records are wiped clean We need to expand those sorts of initiatives and make people understand that it's not just the state's attorney's office Or the DA's office or the police we can't police our way out of this, right? Everybody has a stake in the outcome of our communities and it's time for us to have developed public-private partnerships To ensure that we are addressing those systemic issues Yeah, and so and I mean so if change comes from the grassroots level from the local from from basically bottom up and but only 1% of elected States attorneys look like you then what what is what is the way of getting more? representation into the courtrooms and into into the legal profession so again Under representation in law and in any sort of profession not just law that maintains the status quo, right? Like we have to be able to organize Strategize and implement systemic reform comes from within it's only when you have a seat at the table that you're able to address the issues within you know structures and systems and so I'll just utilize, you know me being in this position, you know We had and a lot of folks know me for the Freddie Gray case But there was accountability that had been had across the board, right? You know, we're applying justice fairly and equally to everybody regardless of your occupation that despite the backlash the Accountability then led to exposure, right? Like exposure We had the Department of Justice report that that showed the discriminatory policing practices of one of the largest agencies in the country That exposure then led to reform and even despite the fact that the federal administration tried to Forstall the consent decree it's now signed and it's it's in place and the discriminatory policing practices of one of the largest Agencies in the country is no more so you have to address this But that systemic reform comes from within and we need to understand that so that we have a seat at the table, right? So and so I'd love for you to share just how you got into this profession again, because if change is coming from the local level Then there are young black women looking at you today who will be you ten times over in ten cities around the country or you know Hopefully many more But you are sort of one of the kindlings that will sort of start the flame and one of the things we do here at New America is we tell the stories so that the policies will make sense and that and it's accessible to everyone so your story I think in your path to law is a way to sort of so absolutely and I think it's already happening, right? We now understand the importance of this position as these local races these local DA races We saw it in Chicago with Kim Fox. We saw it in Orlando with Aramis Ayala We saw it, you know with Kim Gardner and in St. Louis so it's We understand the importance of that right and a lot of those were after the fact after the Freddie Gray case They came and these were elections. We are now understanding not just Freddie Gray But Ferguson the importance of that role for me I Took a different sort of path when I was about 14 years old. It was a tragedy that spawned my passion I come from five generations of police officers my great Grandfather my great uncle and my grandfather was one of the founding members of the first black police organization in Massachusetts our house. He was the ideal sort of community police officer So our house was known as the police house, right? We would have constantly children the troubled children coming to our house and you'd come in and you wouldn't even know anybody I'm like, hey, yeah, all right But I look back and it was he was he was a role model not just for my community or I mean not just for me Individually but for my community and so that was instilled in me But when my cousin when I was 14 my cousin was killed right outside of our home and broad daylight And he was mistaken as a neighborhood drug dealer He was really an honor student had aspirations of becoming an architect and if it wasn't for a neighbor who cooperated with police and Testified in court my family wouldn't have received any sort of justice This was my first introduction to the criminal justice system I had gone to the police station with my mom and my dad But I'd never gone into court and having to see the autopsy photos and seeing my cousin with all these dreams and all These aspirations who's now going to a grave but at 14 What was more perplexing to me was the fact that the individual responsible for his death was also 17 years old And I was really perplexed because I couldn't understand why the community was so complacent, right? Why we as a community have become so complacent with seeing so many young black men laying dead in the streets That's an image that to this very day is branded in my mind and going into the courthouse and seeing the number of African-Americans coming in and out of the the courthouse and chains and shackles at 14 I said what is this system and and why is it the way that it is and how do we reform it? So that's what spawned my passion and I ultimately decided to become a prosecutor because I felt that was the best way To be able to reform the criminal justice system, right? And we're almost out of time, but could you talk a little bit about okay? So, you know your path led you there you went through all of the of the law school and and you worked At for insurance company for a little while and yeah, so you've sort of seen it from all kinds of angles How are you received by judges by? You know prosecuting attorneys or defending attorneys, you know well what I've learned You know I've been in office for two years and five months. It feels like 25 years, but What I've learned is not to Internalize things right like you know the same way that I said that I represent 1% of all Elected women of color in the country as prosecutor, you know, it's it's not about me individually It's about what I represent so a lot of the backlash right when I first beat an incumbent that outraised me four to one by Double-digit percentage points and became the state's attorney, you know the media is was very not friendly, right? They said one of the commentators said that the position should be appointed and then for the first two weeks When I was in office, they wrote several stories about how my husband was running my office, right? You have the misogynistic undertones and the racist undertones There was a time when there was a homicide review commission that they accused me of personally of derailing Even though I as well as the current commissioner didn't agree and for several articles Not only did they file follow the derailment article up with it They wrote an editorial that said plain nice miss Mosby and then after that the NPR affiliate piled on and said Called me scornful for not being on the same page as the police department even though we were And when it came out that the police commissioner was on the same page. It was everybody was quiet So, you know, although the newest crop of delegates, which are mostly young men aren't referred in the media as being scornful or you know It's just something that comes with the territory and you know, I also I Appreciate the fact that the negativity is also something that is you know I don't internalize and it's more about I just I get as much positivity from the community as well Right. Very good. Well, we're just about out of time. Um, but thank you so much for joining us today And we'll be back for for questions Well, if you all haven't heard enough for me get ready for some more long-winded questions, but Thank you very much for joining us today and I wanted to I think Try to start with a very very very basic question, but I think that in Certainly the last election cycle, but truly Dating back a few election cycles now. There's been a great deal of conversation energy focus legislation litigation around the fundamental concept that voter fraud is a scourge on the American Electoral process that must be constrained and destroyed and at the same time very little in the way of sort of collective action on actual access to the ballot and I'll leave it that so I wonder if you could talk a bit about that and why also we seem to have this very imbalanced way of thinking about today so very important question and I think At the outset it's important to note that the right to vote is the most important civil right in our democracy and You know this past Friday the president launched a so-called election integrity Commission, this is a sham Commission that is purportedly Off to now search for and find evidence of widespread Vote fraud across our country and we know that they're not going to turn anything up because vote fraud doesn't exist There is a study that's been issued by the Brennan Center a Partner organization that finds that vote fraud in our country happens at a rate of about point zero zero Zero three percent But what we do know is that voter suppression is alive and well across our country that voting discrimination is real that states like Texas have taken steps to block access to the ballot box with restrictive and unnecessary rules Their photo ID law which we have been fighting for almost four years now is Perhaps one of the most crude and restrictive voter suppression measures that we've seen in modern time This is a law Texas's photo ID law Is one that allows you to vote if you have a passport a driver's license a lot of people have those forms of ID a Conceal and carry permit qualifies, but a student college ID does not or a hunting license. That's right And we know that these laws are about picking off people at the margins people who are poor People who rely on public transportation and so they don't drive and don't have a driver's license people who've never been on a plane and To me democracy is broken unless everyone is able to participate and have their voice heard So I'm angered by this election integrity commission that has been launched. It's a waste of taxpayer dollars It is noise and distraction Designed to turn us away from the real issues that threaten our democracy and we know that voter suppression is one of them I think Certainly voter ID is a Concept I would imagine that most people in this room are somewhat familiar with as well as the idea that it affects different groups differently in terms of their access to the ballot, but there are perhaps two things that get a little less attention, which is The fact that in some states if you've been convicted of certain crimes or certainly felonies You can lose your right to vote permanently or be in a position where you have to take some very Affirmative and extensive steps to regain that right In addition to that there have been as I understand it a wave of polling place closures around the country Which literally mean that people have to wait for longer periods of time to vote I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the what is known about the Real effect that both of those things or perhaps one at a time have had on voter participation perhaps in 2016 You know very few people talk about felon disenfranchisement statutes, which are a real Barrier to the ballot. There are about eight million American citizens who can't vote today because of a conviction on their record and Because of the racial disparities that infect our criminal justice system These laws have a greater burden on the voting rights of African Americans and Latinos and other minority communities and these laws came about during the Jim Crow era It was clear that these were laws that states put on the books because they were specifically Seeking to exclude African Americans from access to the ballot box To me it's shameful in 2017 that these laws still exist today There are two states in our country Actually that when you when you take race out of the equation People actually get it so Vermont and Maine for example are two states where you can vote even when you're in jail But once you put race into the equation This has been another dirty tactic that states have resorted to to lock certain Americans out of the ballot box Florida is actually one of the worst examples About 25 percent of African American men Can't vote because of a criminal conviction on their record and there's actually a ballot initiative that will go before voters in 2018 that will give the electorate that can vote the operate the the opportunity to correct this injustice but To me, it's shameful that this idea that once people have paid their debt to society That we would still deny them the most core right in American citizenship the right to vote I believe that once people have paid their debt to society They deserve a second chance and deserve access to a job and to housing and deserve access to the ballot box And perhaps I should go off script just a bit here and ask you to explain the relationship between that felony conviction issue and Access to housing jobs education There is an obvious relationship between all of those things and the ability to vote and shape our country But I wonder if you could talk a little more about that. Yeah barriers to reentry for returning citizens people with criminal histories You know sadly is real All across our country you have employers who just feel like you know that person with that ten-year-old Conviction is not somebody that they can have in the workplace Landlords same thing. This is somebody who's going to be a threat To the community if we let them in How on earth do we give people an opportunity to really bounce back and get back on their feet? If we're not giving them the tools and resources that they need to successfully reintegrate into their communities Huge issue, and you know, it's one that even rears its head in the context of educational opportunity There are colleges and universities across our country for example that ask student applicants to disclose Not just whether they've got a conviction on their record But whether or not they've ever been stopped by the police or arrested by the police We treat people with criminal histories as if they bear a scarlet letter Another huge crisis that we really need to work to address But I think the right to vote is central American citizens deserve the right to vote period-point blank So I guess then We've come to a moment where it seems like a natural questions to talk a little about What you see is the major pieces of litigation and perhaps legislation on the horizon That perhaps you or other I guess members of I know you're part of a larger coalition of voting rights organizations What's on the horizon that people are really watching closely and deeply concerned about? Yeah voter suppression is front and center and you know a lot of people tend to pay attention to Elections every four years and presidential election years But we know from being in the trenches that officials are working around the clock across our country to try and make access to the ballot box more So let me tell you about some of what we're fighting We just won a victory in the state of Georgia there's a congressional special election for the sixth district in Georgia and Georgia imposed the 90-day Registration deadline for people who want to vote in the runoff That's scheduled to happen in June federal law is clear For federal elections in our country you can't impose more than a 30-day deadline And Georgia decided to just put a footnote on that and say no we're gonna make it 90 days for runoff races So we sued and we won and people in Georgia can actually register through May 21st If they want to vote in that upcoming six district runoff race We're fighting things like vote purging You have some counties that claim that they're cleaning up the registration roles and they're actually taking steps to strip Legitimately registered voters from the role. So that's something that we're watching out for and We're also gearing up for the next round of redistricting Jerry mandering is a problem in our country We just filed a lawsuit dealing with racial Jerry mandering in the state of Georgia and we need Folks to start to gear up to prepare for the 2020 round of redistricting because we want redistricting maps that Fairly reflect the racial makeup and partisan makeup of communities so threats to democracy happen 365 days a year and every year during a decade and We're out there encouraging people to be vigilant and encouraging people to turn out and participate in local elections, which is also Critically important to the health of our democracy Sherilyn Mosby was just here So many people are talking about fixing our criminal justice system. We need more diversity among the ranks of DA's across our country. DA's have so much power And have the ability to decide what happens when police shootings happen in their communities So through the ballot box, we have the ability to achieve a great deal of reform if we embrace that power I feel as if we would be deeply remiss if we didn't speak about the Justice Department and what it means to fight for voting rights under the Trump administration In the absence of section five though of the Voting Rights Act And I wonder if we perhaps could talk a little bit about what that means both in terms of your sheer workload And stress level but also what is it that you worry most perhaps could slip through the cracks So this Justice Department this Saturday actually marks 100 days of Jeff Sessions occupying the role of Attorney General in our country and It's been a bitter 90 96 97 days, I mean we knew that Jeff Sessions was bringing with him a record of great hostility When it comes to civil rights and he's made that clear virtually every day since he's been in that role We're seeing rollbacks not only with respect to voting rights, but also with respect to policing reform It was remarkable to see the Justice Department step in at the 11th hour Seeking to undermine a carefully negotiated consent decree that would have put the city on a path to reform We know that we've got to Keep our foot on the gas and continue to bring pressure to bear on This attorney general to do his job But the reality is that he is doing things that are harmful to our democracy Restoring the use of private prisons for federal inmates Delaying federal civil rights cases Reversing position in critical civil rights cases. I mentioned the Texas voter ID case that's a case that the Lawyers Committee for civil rights under law and other Partners have been fighting for four years and we've been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the Justice Department and We were heading down to Texas about a month and a half ago for a critically important hearing and Literally while bags were in hand and lawyers were getting ready to board flights We got a call from the Justice Department saying that they were abandoning their position that The Texas photo ID law was adopted with a discriminatory purpose And so we soldiered on without them after getting that 11th hour call but It's clear that the courts are going to be a really important place to safeguard civil rights and That we've got to use our voice to push back and speak up when we see the government taking action That unravels all of the progress that had been put in place over the last several years You mentioned when we were back in the green room the sense that One has to play whack-a-mole in the absence of section five. I wonder if you could explain what that means and how that Falls short of what could be accomplished when section five was in place So the Voting Rights Act of 1965 is our nation's most important federal civil rights law The heart of that act is the section five Preclearance provision. This was a provision that required that states like Texas and North Carolina and Georgia And other states with long histories of voting discrimination It said that before you can put in place a new law like a photo ID law You've got to submit that law for federal review so that we could be sure it would not be a law That would discriminate against minority voters During the time the law was in place. It had blocked hundreds of discriminatory voting changes Supreme Court issued a ruling in 2013 that got That provision of the act and since that time we've seen the floodgates open And we've seen states like Texas and North Carolina and Georgia kind of racing to the bottom when it comes to voter suppression North Carolina, this is the belly of the beast The Supreme Court just left in place a fourth circuit ruling finding that that states voter suppression law discriminated against minority voters with almost surgical precision the Supreme Court said we're not going to review the case And that was a victory because it left that fourth circuit decision intact But now we are hearing that lawmakers in North Carolina as we sit here are Planning to renew the law and put a new mirror law on the books. So this is a game of whack-a-mole To me it's shameful that lawmakers Would even think to do something like this and for the civil rights lawyers It means that we've got to roll up our sleeves and prepare for another fight that could go on for several years But while that fight is going on voters suffer the voters who are impacted And who are locked out of the ballot box are the ones who suffer. So it is a game of whack-a-mole, but We're focused on the important work that needs to be done to safeguard access to our democracy. I Think we'll stop there But I have been asked to ask for a little patience while we bring out the rest of the panel And then I'm pretty sure that people have some questions for you as well as other members of our panel I know I have a few more questions. So if you all will just bear with us I Okay, I'm moderating so folks Like Veronica's excellent guidance remember a question is a desire for more knowledge a comment is a reflection on how you feel So let's open it up to this person in the very back Mike Hello, so you were mentioning in your statement that two places just regardless of race right now that get it Right where Vermont and Maine and I was wondering what your thoughts on why you think if the reason that if that the fact that Maine and Vermont are both the whitest states in this country at 95 and 96% White population has anything to do with that progressive nature on voting and then for Marilyn Mosby I was wondering we were the conversation came up about how do you get representation in law? How do you get young black women to want to be you know prosecutors and judges and Activists I mean advocates in that regard and I was wondering do you think that your experience in Baltimore and the way that you kind of got black Bald after approaching or investigating police officers deters black people from wanting to even get in that position Especially if the people who you are supposed to be who are supposed to be your co-workers your supporters Will turn against you once you are no longer on their side or supporting them blindly as they say and thank you So the question about voting so you answered your own question Absolutely the fact that these are two states that are the whitest states in the country Has something to do with the fact that these are places that do not strip away the right to vote from people With criminal histories in fact they let people in jail vote So what race complicates things right? I think that's the theme of the story race Has complicated things for decades and continues until this day to complicate things But these are laws that when you dig into the legislative history It is so clear that lawmakers put these laws on the books to deny African-Americans access to the ballot box and it's shameful that we live with these laws on the books in many states today Six million Americans denied the right to vote because of felon disenfranchisement statues So I would say yeah, it's it's difficult being in this position and having the Underrepresentation in this field, but what I think is helpful I can remember right after I won the primary Democratic primary. I was in the community, right? And this little eight-year-old girl walked up to me and she said Marilyn Mosby. I've voted for you And I have an eight-year-old girl little girl, so you know It really hit me the the the sort of the impact of that election Because here you have a little girl who clearly didn't vote but somebody had explained the importance of that fundamental right to her And she could see herself in me right so a lot of times what it takes is just that Representation and I can tell you because I have a relationship with Aramis Ayala and Kim Fox and Kim Gardner We stay in constant communication, but they were inspired once they saw me in this position and they said hey I can do that too. You know, it's like you just need to And this is one of the things I have gone to over I've been in office for two years I have done over a thousand community events churches and schools I am in schools constantly because it's really important for you to instill in our young people that they can do and they can be Anything that they want to be and the same way that I get the kind of backlash from you know, the conservative media I Get a whole lot of love from a whole lot of little girls who now understand that they can be state's attorney Regardless of what the media does to me So I think it's greater than me individually and once you understand that then you can you I'm gonna do my job And you know hope that folks will understand the importance of this role Thank you Yes in the green Thanks, I'm curious about how to bring this conversation or place this conversation in the digital age Especially on the justice in the courtroom conversation There's experimentation with algorithms and sentencing proponents think it's great because it can take away certain kinds of bias detractors think that it can Bake in bias if the indicators that you're using are already racially biased or whether it's technology That would help make electronic monitoring when you're on home arrest a slightly more dignified experience I can think of sort of ways in which the digital age touches all of these conversations And I'm curious especially on the courtroom side how you're thinking about that in your work But on anybody else I'd love to hear that Well, I can say with reference to the bail issue one of the things that we've done in my office Under this administration is we've increased the grant funding by more than 27% we received more than $425,000 for a What's called a smart prosecution grant and we are essentially going in and we're working with pre-trial to develop a Metrics or a system for making recommendations on bail We don't want to make these arbitrary sort of bail recommendations any longer And so we're in the process of you know, we have a researcher We're gathering all of this information so that we no longer do that That's just one example of some of the things that we're doing Around that issue and and again bringing in it bringing in researchers and Utilizing the resources that are at our disposal Can I make one point I it's something that Nicole said earlier brought this to mind for me, which is that they're We have to be thoughtful about the way in which capitalism as an impulse or instinct can change things And I can tell you that while this is probably not as welcome of an answer There are definitely ways in which technology is being used to enhance inequality in the justice system right now as well Just one minor example or obligations to for instance those who have been Convicted of drunk driving who are forced to attach these devices in some states to their Vehicles that they have to blow into like a breathalyzer before your car will start and you must pay for that system for the installation Companies bid for those contracts. They are not awarded based on how much it will cost the customer But rather how much the company will pay the county and the list goes on and on dignity is not part of that process, but Just to be clear. I think there are lots of ways in which technology can also be certainly a Knife edge So Eduardo Bonilla Silva talks about Racism without races and colorblind racism, and then I think something like technology right now It's starting to facilitate can facilitate this genre something that seems to be Neutral not race-based but based on some input or some data It's gonna have detrimental effects and in the problem with it is that you don't have a clear villain to identify to address And I'll just say something that even beyond a criminal justice system data in general about who owns it This is the next frontier of the battle who owns it and what purpose will it be used for this is gonna be I think something is gonna be on the forefront Academics traditionally the narrative with regards to genetics explaining inequality With big data as we start collecting biological markers and things like that We don't even know what the markers mean, but people will find Correlations that will be attached to various populations and this will be the next smoking gun But it'll be a smoking gun without any substance that will lack theory or lack any ability to ascribe to but We all should be aware of this and be concerned about addressing it Thank you all my questions for you Nicole, so you highlighted the failure of schools based on segregation or segregated schools and the chronic failure that exists in majority black schools and Proposed I believe integrated schools as a solution and I'd love for you to talk about or just sort of unpack the attributes of integration that you think will address the chronic failure, so Maybe you could use this as a way to respond which is if we had better distribution of resources amongst majority black schools like including quality teachers Financial resources, etc. Is segregated or segregated schools still bad and we still need integration or so I just want you to kind of unpack the integration versus segregation So a couple of things My argument for integration is based one on the data that shows If you're looking at the ratio achievement gap the only thing that's worked on scale to close a ratio achievement gap is integration reason for that is We have never given even equal resources to black schools Anywhere in this country at any period in time, so we don't actually know what that looks like so possibly The problem is the segregation that black children are facing today is a double segregation Pre-brown v. Board of Education schools may be racially Segregated, but they were economically integrated you had all different classes of black people in those schools What integration is wrought is that middle-class black people are often the ones who are in integrated schools And what's left behind our schools that are not only entirely black, but also entirely poor the same reason that we understand That ghetto-wising neighborhoods is bad that When you have entire communities that are struggling, but that is bad living environment It creates also a toxic environment in the classroom so I don't think that there are enough resources that you could scale up by Concentrate a concentrated poverty school in a racially isolated school that would get you the proper result But the second argument is that segregated schools are undemocratic We live in a country that is majority white We know who are the people who are holding power in this country when you are segregating Black students away from that you are segregating them from power You're segregating them from access to the people who are going to be able to write them college admissions letters Who are going to be able to get them an internship? From the elected officials who are going to be able to get them resources for their communities a great example of that My daughter's school, which is a high-poverty segregated school Was there was a rezoning for 50 white kids who were being asked to come to my daughter's school 50 white kids in a system of a million students were able to draw to weekly meetings city elected officials state elected officials Comptroller that doesn't happen when you have black kids segregated in in high-poverty schools I don't know what our parents could do that could draw that type of resources. So that's the problem We understand that we're If you ask why integration you have to ask why segregation? Why did we choose to segregate black students in the first place? It was to demean them. It was to solidify their status as Second-class citizens it was a way of girding cat a cast system and it was a way of hoarding resources for white students That is the way that the system continues to operate. So sure It would be great if we could produce all black schools that we were giving the same resources to but 400 years of history shows that we aren't going to do that But even if we did that we are still separating them from access to power in this country And I think that's undemocratic the person hopes Quick nothing is I'm gonna say it's gonna contradict Nicole what she just said but integration into hostility can be as problematic as well We know that there are segregated schools with from within where you have the high achievement classes Predominantly white and all the black students are in the low achievement classes and that's by design And that that's part of a structure that is Able to maintain that the hoarding of resources within so we certainly need to be cognizant of that But I would argue when I'm saying integration. I mean integration, right? I mean segregation within an integrated school is not integration and If you are a black parent there will be a struggle There will be a struggle the struggle is do I put my child in an all-black learning environment where culturally it is good for My child but academically my child may suffer or do I put my child in a white learning environment where? Academically my child will get everything but socially and culturally it will be a challenge We're black in this country There's not going to be a choice that will not have some struggle But we should not then give up on integration and not force integration to be done equitably because integration is a challenge I wanted to if I could just add one thing to the point about resource hoarding I think it's a really critical point that we've got to be very thoughtful about and it is a real phenomenon that affects people over the course of the life cycle That resource hoarding that Nicole and Derek were talking about I mean has everything or at least a large part to do with why the unemployment rate for every level of education is almost twice what it is for white People in the United States black people Generally speaking have an unemployment rate that is two times that of white people and Fundamentally most people are getting their jobs by way of sometimes, you know, just simple word of mouth or I heard there is a job recommendations as Nicole mentioned sort of letters putting you on a path the general way that your familiarity your shared school history and Love affair with the same football teams Etc and help in a job interview these things really start to stack up over your life And it is important to be thoughtful about how important it is to Distribute those things across the entire population and you will have the last word Thank you. My question is primary for christen. So just finished. I just finished reading our environments Well, give us the ballot, which is probably the most infuriating thing I've ever read I'm curious just your thoughts particularly on like the insidiousness of the voter ID issue You know, luckily there's been like paper trail So we've been able to strike it down in the courts, but to the lay person on its surface It's like, okay, I got an ID. Like why does this why what's the big deal? I'm curious on what you all are doing and what what are some strategies around Kind of elevating this issue in the public consciousness such that people see it for what it is. Yeah, I Appreciate that question because it is one of the most Pernicious and dirty tactics used to suppress the right to vote that sounds really innocuous, right? How many of you all have photo ID? This is not who we're talking about These laws are about disenfranchising the poorest of the poor People who you know function, you know the elderly people who were born at home, you know at home to midwives And they don't have a birth certificate and they don't have that document that you need to bring down To the local agency to get a passport We're talking about people who've never been on a plane people who rely on public transportation When we looked in Texas when they put this law in the books There were six hundred thousand people across the state who did not have a qualifying form of ID And when we looked at that six hundred thousand we found that a disproportionate number of them were poor Black and Latino and there were a lot of elderly and students impacted as well And these the our elections are closely Contested right the margins sometimes are Razor thin and so when you put laws like this on the books you nick Just enough at the margins that it starts to make a difference It's not enough that you know 95% of us can overcome the hurdle if there is a rule that locks out four five percent of eligible Americans from the ballot box then That's a shame and that's something we have to fight and that's a threat to democracy And so that's why we're fighting in Texas And that's why we're fighting all of these states where we're seeing these ugly voter suppression tactics rear their ugly head And I would just add that a lot of times these these laws are passed as voter identification But baked in there or sort of hidden in the in some of the text is well, we're also going to close You know reduce early registration. We're also going to close some polling centers We're also going to take all these other measures that have nothing to do with identification But are rolled into a voter ID law So then you have people that buy the bumper sticker ID is a good thing to have for voting but what they get with with that support or all these other measures that Really undermine the sort of democracy. We're trying to promote by putting these other measures You know baked into the law also just quickly. It's also the type of ID, right? That's right can't use a college ID, right? Well, you can't use your social your Medicaid car, but you can use a fishing or hunting license, right? Like they're right. I need out particular types of people absolutely This is a really important point that actually goes to something else you mentioned Kristen Which is the fact that historically felon disenfranchisement laws were absolutely crafted to specifically remove people from the voting from the electorate When these laws were passed Legislatures legislators had conversations on the record on the House floor on the Senate floor Discussing which crimes people of color versus white people commit and therefore which crimes should be disqualifiers for future voting And it is important to recognize that that's exactly what Nicole has just described with regard to the types of Identification that are and are not accepted for voting Well, I want to first of all think our panel for their incredible work Both in this conversation and out in the world