 Hello, everyone and thank you for joining us this evening. We will begin shortly just waiting for more people to sign on. And then we can get started. Okay. Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining tonight on this. This very special office hours on fuel reduction strategies for the transportation department. And another amazing episode of NYC film green officers. So I am Anna Laura, and I'm the education and special programs manager at Earth Angel, a sustainable production consultancy helping to reduce the environmental impact of film and television production. This office hours event is held by the mayor's office of media and entertainment, which is the agency in the New York City government that supports creative industries. We created the NYC film green as a way to promote sustainable film production and develop resources like today's event, as well as many more that will soon be rolled out on the NYC film green website to support productions in the city who want to take steps to reduce their environmental impact. Sorry, having some technical issues. There we go. Okay, so we are going to have a panel discussion between 515 and six o'clock with our amazing panelists. And then we'll this will be followed by a little Q&A with with our panelists. This will be followed by our office hours section, which will be an open forum for any questions on sustainable production that you might have. Our panelists are welcome to stay for this section. And you can ask any source of questions not just on fuel reduction strategies. So all questions are welcome. And so the film. So according to the US Department of Energy, each gallon of gasoline burned creates 20 pounds of greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming and climate change. This translates to approximately five to nine tons of greenhouse gases each year for a typical vehicle. And to keep in mind one ton is about the size of a two story home. And the film and television industry has a large environmental impact, and one of its largest environmental impact areas is in fuel consumption. The production Alliance, commonly known as spa released a report outlining industry wide production carbon emission averages for certain productions between 2016 and 2019, including both feature films and television series. And what this report found was that across the board fuel missions derived mainly from transportation and generators comprised an average of 48% of the total carbon footprint. Which it is imperative that we find energy sources that don't emit greenhouse gases, while still fulfilling our industry's energy needs. So we've brought together a panel of experts here for you today to discuss how the transportation department can reduce the reliance on fossil fuels by turning toward cleaner energy sources alternative fuels and more efficient sleep management. With us today is Shannon Bart, senior manager of sustainability and productions at Netflix. She's responsible for leading Netflix's sustainability strategy for its for its global productions, and her work as a strong focus on reducing fuel use from production of operations through optimizing electrifying and decarbonizing production power and fleets. Prior to prior to coming to Netflix, Shannon was sustainability director at NBC universal, where she created and led the sustainable production program for over a decade, and was a founding member of the sustainable production Alliance. David Devereaux, transport captain of the three attricles teamsters local 817 started in the motion picture picture industry in 2005 as a driver for for the local 817 and throughout his career Mike has represented the union as a teamster He's worked on various productions such as Law and Order, Law and Order SVU, Spider-Man 3, Oceans 8, John Wick 3, and presently CBS's East New York. Matt Luke from Nesty, as Nesty's technical manager for North America, Matt Luke serves as the principal technical point of contact for the renewable road transport team, providing expertise to stakeholders about renewable fuels position in the larger energy picture. How it works in engines the value it provides and its widespread applications. Matt believes that all solutions are needed to fight climate change and renewable fuels will be a big part of the energy mix in the future. From Edge Auto Rental, Matthew Price is the director of operations at Edge Auto Rental with a focus on sustainability initiatives. And with Matthew today is Keith Gordon from Edge Auto sister company Emerald Trailers. Keith is sure to bring some great insights on fuel reduction on the trailers on the trailer side as they are 100% electric and solar powered. And from Shattered Prism, Adam Shippey owns and manages Shattered Prism, a sustainable equipment red toll company with a focus on portable electric power solutions. Adam launched Shattered Prism in 2019 with his brother Parker, who also works as a lighting designer. Shattered Prism now has locations in filming hubs across the US and has helped over 100 productions power their sets more sustainably. Some prominent recent productions served in the New York area include the law and order franchises, imaginary friends, poker face, SNL and leave the world behind. Okay. All right, so welcome panelists. I'm very excited to have you all here. I guess we can turn on our videos now. Perfect. Welcome, welcome. Okay, so let's get started. And we'll start with fuel usage. So, let's start with what are the main sources of fuel consumption on productions and I'll, I'll give that question to Mike Devereux. Thank you, Anna Laura. I guess I'll start this off. I think mainly you have your, you know, your generators, your base camp generator, your set generator that are running constantly making me run enough to you know, 18 hours a day depending on how long the shoot is. And of course, your, your set dressing trucks and your rigging trucks because they're driving all day, are probably the advance are probably the leading transportation. They're leading fuel and taken in production. Of course. And how much would you say, how much fuel would you say that production typically uses for a feature or a TV series. Maybe like a, an NBC show, like a procedural eight episode, eight day episode in a week to go through about 900 gallons of diesel and like, and about 700 gallons of gasoline in one week. That's, that's a big number. That's a very big number. That's your out how many days you're out how many days you're in the studio but that's just on an average. Of course. Yeah, and I think I think you're right Mike it really depends on the type of production. If you look at the spa regional admissions report that they recently that was recently put out here I'll put the link in the chat. And it does call out specifically New York and averages across a number of productions. So, according to that report, a one hour scripted drama similar to what you're saying Mike has about 40 metric tons of carbon from fuel per episode. If you do the backwards math on that it's about over 4000 gallons potentially per episode on average. So if you have a more studio based show, I think it's, it's less right like procedural and then if you have a show that's out on the, on the road a lot or you can increase that for sure. I've also seen generators used for heating in New York which can obviously increase the amount of fuel used and then on the film side. In that report here I'm not going to talking and sharing links at the same time but I will share that is medium sized film in New York has about 300 metric tons of from fuel, which if you do the back math backwards. It's over 31,000 gallons of fuel, and that's assuming about a mix of half gas half diesel. That's how I've kind of seen some feel come in I don't know Mike if you see more diesel now these days versus gas. Yeah, I mean the study that I did is I just had a couple of productions send me there I see fuel. It's the card they use to purchase fuel and I took all the gallons of gas and all the gallons of diesel per week and kind of took a couple different jobs and did an average on that and that's I think that's the best way of gauging right now in New York, over the past, you know, in December at least and, and you're going to burn more diesel when it's, you need air conditioning or you need, or gasoline when you need air conditioning or you need heat, then maybe the, the more moderate climate months, but it's also New York uses, if they have air conditioning is when we're on location. Sometimes I use a separate generator just for that because if they use a generator to power set, and the power air conditioning will start tripping out, you know, the filming and then you'll have to cut and obviously roll again so that's another issue. So I was going to ask on more on what you just mentioned you you started tracking your own productions usage or getting that information. So are, are you seeing productions in general tracking their fuel use in in any way, other than you just collecting them. I would definitely on a studio standpoint they have to, because they have to each vendor does, like I know one of the big vendors we use on the job I'm on is it adds, and they have to pay a tax on it. So they need the, the fuel receipts and they need to, you know, document that and, you know, just or, you know, so they can pay the right amount of tax on the fuel that's used on their vehicles so they're definitely tracking it as well as the others are tracking it. And it's simple because destiny fuels gives you a report, and you just see all the gallons and the diesel and the regular fuel that you're using on a weekly basis. Right. And that's like, sorry. Shannon, can you elaborate on your shows. I think, as Mike said there's a lot probably tracking feel at different levels. I know many of the major studios including Netflix do ask our accounting teams to track how much feels purchased and report that back. We fold that into our corporate carbon footprint reporting. And so that's the fuel that's burned is considered a scope one admission which is something that is really important to reduce. The company kind of across the board so the first step to figuring out how to reduce it is to track it and find out how much you're using. Perfect. Thank you for that. All right, let's move forward in unless anybody else has anything else to say on fuel usage. Let's move on to alternative fuels. So, can you describe the various alternative fuels available and their benefits and this one I will direct to Matt Luke Luke at nasty. Yeah, so there's, there's a lot of alternative fuels out there. Like on the transportation side, we got gasoline and diesel but also renewable diesel biodiesel hydrogen compressed natural gas all these other things for power generation and things that this group is mostly working on. I'd say the alternative diesel fuels are obviously the most popular right that there is no real renewable gasoline option out there but there are renewable diesel options. And that's the use right now so I guess from my perspective maybe a little bias here I think renewable diesel is probably the best for what you guys are looking for because it's a it's a drop in solution that you know it doesn't require any work. There's no blend limits to either so you can use it and a full replacement for what you're doing now to realize a lot more benefit. So is this renewable diesel readily available in New York City. At the moment no. And I think part of the conversation here is you know maybe you guys can help us with a few things but right now that the core market for renewable diesel is the West Coast, because those states from California, really all the way up to British Columbia, have these low carbon fuel programs in place, which it helps producers like us offset the higher production costs that it takes to make the fuel. You know, we can take fuel anywhere that it's needed. There's just some transport logistics, things like that. I think looking toward the future from a public affairs kind of perspective here. Everyone at any any company in the biofuels industry is kind of watching New York right now, because you know like said, the entire West Coast has got programs in place California led the way and then Oregon just a few years ago got there's in place, and Washington State just got there's the general consensus is that New York will be next and probably draw in a few neighboring states is kind of a regional program. And that's really going to open doors for getting a lot a lot of this fuel over into that area. One of the things that I would love to add is, you know renewable diesel decasters in charge of New York City's fleet did a pilot in 2019 with renewable diesel and one of the deputy commissioners over there is really responsible for transitioning the fleet into electric vehicles and I know that there's a lot of people in the cast that want to go with renewable diesel. I've talked with some I guess you would say distributors. I talked to one of the distributors that was responsible for one of the pilots, and basically they're just looking for an anchor customer. I did sign off with them like I myself with help of one of our vendors Tommy from Walton. I've got a commitment from probably the leading fuel station where our trucks fuel up at to give us one of the 4000 tanks they have with diesel to put renewable diesel in it. So if that anchor customer did come to New York like the cast or the ferries or someone like that we already have a gas station where we could get our vehicles filled up and we could send our fuel trucks ready to go and to start pumping and one of the distributors that they talked to they use anyway, so it'd be a seamless transition to go right into it. And one more note on that kind of mentoring that the anchor customer right, like I said, the entire market doesn't have to be there for just one person to get the fuel there's always options for that you know we fueled like the global citizen festival in New York, where we took dedicated people just for that customer out there so there are other options on the table before or without just waiting for the legislature and everything else to be put in place. I would imagine it'd be a lot more expensive with a smaller customer than with a bigger customer. There's a transport cost yeah. That sounds great I like that there's it's the infrastructure is almost there it's ready, and it's ready to be to just be used, which is really great. And that's a great thing and learn about renewable diesel is that there are vendors that are signed up that will take on some of the biggest vendors like Haddad's and Walton in New York, already to use it you know it's not like biodiesel where biodiesel you constantly have to change the filters you know it's made with, I believe like, like vegetables, and you'd have at a heat, you'd have it growing mold or it have a higher freezing point where renewable diesel doesn't. A lot of vendors are more willing to use renewable diesel than they would be with biodiesel. Mike, do you want my job, you can have it. I can do a lot of research on this. Everything Mike saying is really accurate. And we can kind of get into some of the benefits, like operationally if you guys want to talk about that as well. But if we don't have time here I'll just let you guys know we're actually doing a workshop in Greenwich on March 1. And if anyone here would like an invite to that. Let me know afterwards and we can make sure you get the info. That's great. You touched on really good point there that there is a difference between the biodiesel and renewable diesel so do you want to talk a little bit towards that and how it might impact production. Yeah, I mean, I'll start and Mike you can catch anything on this. They're both made from the same stuff from waste and residues right these renewable raw materials, whether it's used cooking oil or you know animal fat or whatever else. The difference in the production the chemistry like the actual refining process to make it and what comes out. They both run diesel engines. The thing is renewable diesel is a hydrocarbon to it's a direct replacement for fossil whereas the bio is it's other molecule right, which means you can only use it up to a 20% blend. So, if your goal is GHG reduction, 80% of your fuel still has to be fossil you're only getting the benefit in that 20% portion right, whereas with renewable diesel because you can run it at 100% rate. So we say we can provide up to a 75% GHG reduction, compared to the fossil baseline. That's because we don't have to blend it with anything it's just a neat product going in the tank. And, you know, you don't have to get rid of what was in the tank, you can just start blending them they're fully fungible the other stuff will just blend itself out. And this from an operational view, you know, especially with power generation the fuel itself is aromatic free and airmatics are type of molecule that's what makes diesel exhaust carcinogenic. We don't really have those in our fuel. So, if you're around generators and other stationary equipment all day you're not necessarily getting the big negative health impacts that you would from a fossil diesel exhaust stream. There's other longer term benefits for the equipment itself, we can reduce maintenance costs we can reduce downtime stuff like that but I think from the environment health perspective there's some some big immediate benefits you can get. I like that not only are there environmental benefits but also for the benefit for the benefit of the people that are working right around the generators. They're not just breathing in fumes all day. Yes, some of our big customers like I'm actually I'm calling in from Portland from a hotel right now, and the city of Portland all of their fire departments run on our fuel because, you know, this equipment has to start up inside the firehouse and drive out and when they come back back into the firehouse they're filling that firehouse with with exhaust, and just knowing that they're already exposed to all this other stuff doing their job they don't need to add one more thing to it. So switching to our fuel just allows them to strike that awful list and not have to worry about it. Perfect. And then moving to actually using it on productions. Shannon, can you speak a little bit towards experience using biodiesel or sorry renewable diesel or alternative fuels in general on on your productions. Yeah, so renewable diesel is great. I remember most of our productions in Los Angeles and London use it throughout their generators and their vehicles. It's more easily available in those cities right now that it is another city so in markets where it's it's you can get it as easy as you can get other fuel our productions have been leaning it and getting it and then and we haven't had any problems with it. As Matt said it's fantastic it is definitely not the same product as biodiesel. And we see it as a transition fuel so as we're working to electrify our fleets and to shift to clean mobile power sources, renewable diesel is that good bridge to to reduce emissions and and improve air quality. So that's one of the performance improvements that you see as well when you're on a cleaner burning fuel. We've also used some green hydrogen. That's currently available to productions only in the UK. Yes. And with that one, the, the bright product is actually clean water, which is water really great drink I have drank the water coming out of the bottle. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for that. Are there any other hesitancies with using renewable fuels. In general, I'll jump in first than anyone else can also. I think a lot of it is just an educational thing, because I know, like Shannon just said, it's not biodiesel but maybe a lot of people don't, if they have no experience with it they're, they're not making that distinction in their head and they probably have no experience with biodiesel in the past. And so it's just kind of overcoming that message. And then honestly, the only other downside really as we kind of touched on the beginning is just availability right now is getting it to certain places where it's needed because it's not, it's not coast to coast at the moment. You know, but from operational standpoint and everything else that there's really, there's no downside to it. It sounds like a cop out answer people ask, you know, what's the catch but there's really isn't one. Once you once you have the fuel in your tank. And that's, and to go on to Matt's point that's exactly like the first time I heard about renewable diesel. I was thinking biodiesel and said oh no we've had problems with biodiesel that's the first thing I said, and the person was like no no no, it's renewable diesel I'm working on a Warner Brothers show right now and Josh Noel has helped me significantly about, you know, about renewable diesel because they use it in LA and they use in Vancouver, and it's comforting to us because it's a lot colder in Vancouver, and it's a lot warmer in LA. So those are the two biggest factors in New York are the cold and the heat. And if it's working in those two, those two areas then I mean it just comforts me to know that it would probably work here too. But Mike the city of Vancouver has switched over to it. And so it's definitely trusted there. We have had some productions use it in Vancouver it's harder to get though so I love how you were talking to the local fueling station being like can you, can you make it available here so that's honestly the, the only hurdle we've had with renewable diesel the only issue has just been easy access to it. So I think that's the biggest problem to solve. The other thing of the name that so doesn't help us is that both biodiesel and renewable diesel I think and that please correct me are called considered biofuels. So it's not biodiesel but it's a biofuel and then some of the labeling of it. It tells you it's a biofuel and most people would just think that then that's biodiesel so if you see biofuel it actually so can be renewable diesel. It's not the same as biodiesel. Yeah, it's kind of that whole you know a rectangle the square square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. There's the umbrella that is bio based fuels or biofuels that renewable and biofit under within there's the distinction of biodiesel and renewable diesel this goes back 10 plus years 15 years when renewable diesel first started being produced and it goes into like the ASTM specifications and everything else of how do we distinguish these and that's what was landed on. And what we're kind of stuck with it now it's a little too late to change it but also if you hear the term HBO stands for hydro treated vegetable oil. That is the same product HBO just tends to be the term used in Europe so if you start reading looking for articles and stuff you'll see our D or HBO they're interchangeable. Great thank you for that. And then is there a price difference between renewable diesel and regular diesel. You know I mentioned earlier that the West Coast markets that have those carbon programs in place in places like that we can go to market near parity with fossil diesel. Because those credit programs like I said allow us to offset the higher production costs and things that go along with that. And to move off of the West Coast. There are some there's different credit regimes and different rules in different places for different applications. But yeah like going from a transportation application in California to a power generation application outside of California can impact the price. It depends on the value of those credits on any given day. I mean it could be anywhere from 50 cents a gallon to $2 a gallon or something just depending. Like I said that's a lot of market dynamics and things don't we don't control. So the answer for New York is not ideal right now I get that, but we're going that way. And that's the one thing that what happened in when they swapped switch over to ultra low sulfur diesel back years and years ago, you know and eventually you go through the city agencies and state agencies and you get the you know they subsidize the things even out, but you just I feel like you need more customers, and hopefully the customers will come. I also like to a chance that about you know this is, this is a good, you know, until we have the electric vehicles until in a mess because I always try to remind people that we're not there yet with the trucking. You know I think there's the sanitation department has seven electric trucks that they have and it takes it's a 10 hour battery life and you know it's not there yet. You know so this renewable diesel will lower the emissions by I believe it's 85% until we wait till the technology comes and you can get the electrical trucking on an industry wide basis. Perfect. Thank you for those those answers. Okay, so let's move it on to electrical vehicles and hybrids. Do you consider fuel costs when making decisions about EVs or hybrid rentals. And I'll direct this one as well to to Mike Devereaux, as the one responsible for getting the fleet. One of the biggest problems we have in New York I would say is that, and I don't want to say it's a problem, but in LA, they there's sound stages are owned by the studios right so they get set up an infrastructure and they can have charging stations and they can have everything else in New York it's a lot of like, you have a stage but you have city streets surrounding it right so there's no real, you can't really set up the infrastructure on the city streets have charging stations and plugged in and you know this would be something that you could have more electric vehicles if you had more stages that were closed and could plug in I don't see a lot of electric vehicles. I don't see a lot of fans, it's just, it's not. I haven't come across bands I can really hold a charge for a long time, since they're constantly moving to recharge them in the middle of the day would really put a van out for a longer time. So, I think in New York, we're probably a lot further behind than you are in LA I would think with the electric vehicles. The generators and the campers also, you know, solar's been a great is a great option maybe in LA but in New York with the buildings. It takes away the sun, and you always have to kick on the generator you know our group trailer actually and our job has solar panels, and where it could catch it or recharges the gate on it but you know a lot of times the buildings are blocking the sun you come into those challenges. It seems that it's much. It's more challenges other than just fuel costs that are a decision factor in renting EVs or hybrids. Interesting. So, I mean, this one I'll direct to Matthew Price and Keith Gordon. What types of EVs are currently available in the film industry in New York City right now. So we are currently offering a 40 transit mid roof cargo van 40 transit high roof cargo van has some extended cargo space. And that high roof is also available with the lift gate. And beyond that we also have a Chevy bolt crossover and a Chevy EV Chevy bolt EV which is a small SUV so good for people moving and stuff like that. As more vehicles and electric models become available. We're bringing those into our fleet as soon as we can get our hands on them. And then Keith can talk a little bit about our offerings from our sister company, Emerald Green trailers as far as our solar power trailers. Yeah, so I'm Emerald trailers thank you guys for having me on Emerald Green trailers and literally launched in New York this week. I've been doing some show and tell and Mike been meeting with some of your colleagues. But we are offering fully solar and electric powered trailers for the industry. So kind of coming in as the first to truly offer you know ground up option for trailers in New York and the batteries for these particular trailers are we're basing our battery consumption or availability on the length of a shoot day or longer without solar input because we know that the caverns of the Upper East Side prevent solar from always being available and also that you know night shoots are obviously very common in New York so yeah we're really happy to bring that option option to New York City is the first. That's great to hear. And what is the average. Sorry, how long can your EDS go for. What is the gauge on that. Or the for the cargo bands they have a max range of about 120, 20 miles per full charge. The, the bolts and the small SUV SUVs are around 220 miles per per full charge. And Keith your, the batteries on the trailers those are the batteries on the trailers are aiming for approximately 18 hours at average use throughout the day. And be extended dramatically with the use of even a little bit of solar, because they're not retrofitted vehicles, everything is extremely high efficiency. And we've found through our testing in New York even during the cold and, you know, cloudy overcast days that we've had since much of last week that we're breaking even on power consumption throughout daylight hours. Leaving the battery for night times. Oh that's perfect. Sounds great. Mike, you have something to add. I know there's a, there's another company too that's that's rolling out probably in April, like generators like electric generators I think it's like lithium battery. You know, 1000 amp generators which for teams are captain would be great because the biggest complaints you get are just that generator and your base game generator. Those are two things that like I met with a council member who's trying to have this bill to limit permits and his biggest that the generator noise, you know, and hopefully they could start getting the problem with electric generators is that you need a lot bigger of a generator than you do with diesel generator so it's a bigger structure. And it's definitely, you know, with these 1000 amp and the technology to get smaller and smaller and they can go on tractors and they can kind of like we have now because in New York it's not about the trucks running as much as the generators running that's the biggest issue we have with and it's more noise complaint than it is the emissions or anything else but we know with one comes the other. And, and for emerald green trailers, I can tell you that when once they're parked up they are still towed by diesel vehicles because the tractors are not electric tractors are not there yet, although we have our eye on that for the future. It is silent once they're parked up and running, it will definitely help in that in that regard and in the pipeline are those massive battery packs with enough to power set and replace. The onset generators, we're in the testing phase of those, those products rolling out. And I know, obviously, we have shattered prism on who's already doing that in in some capacity as well for for sense. Perfect. Now you mentioned that you're, you're taking into account the environment of New York. So, and you mentioned the cold weather so how might cold weather affect battery performance. Sure. So with with the vehicles themselves. You roughly expect to have a decrease in about 10% of range in in weather that we've been seeing lately. You know, when we see that creep up past that point is usually from the energy consumption of, you know, sitting idle in the truck with the with the heat turned up so really need to be mindful of how you're using that energy. But if you're using it in normal, in a normal setting. It's not going to be material really it's going to be 10 to 20 miles depending on which model that we're talking about as far as loss of range. The emerald trailers batteries, because we don't need to propel a vehicle using them. We're actually using what are called life po three batteries they're not a lithium ion battery, but a lithium iron phosphate battery, which is less susceptible to heat and cool cold losses. And it's also a non combustible battery on like lithium ion, the trade off being that it's a less energy dense battery and it's also heavier. So that's why in other applications that matters a lot more but when it's only being pulled into place by a very powerful vehicle and then parked up for the day for use the trade off makes sense. Great. Thank you. And now I'm curious about how many EVs and hybrids are typically rented out for productions and what percentage of the fleet that usually makes up and I'll direct this question to Mike and Shannon. Mike do you want to go first. You go first. Electric vehicles are still pretty new to our industry. And right now, for example, in New York, there aren't any trucks available, which is the majority of what is rented. And so I would say it's a really small percentage right now, I would say that on many productions there aren't any electric vehicles. And then on more and more there's usually start electric cars or plug in hybrid electric cars, and then work your way up to cargo van and, and, and so forth. So, we've had a number of electric cars, passenger cars and vans and cargo vans on a number of productions we've had kind of globally. And then we are working on piloting more vehicles as they become available and to market. So I think as a percentage of your fleet, it's going to be very small. I think where you have the opportunity to do it is those that drive, especially in cars or the cargo van that drive around a lot and I think they'll need to be a demand sent to all of the studio owners as well that DC fast charging is essential. And because we will need DC fast charging where these vehicles are parking at night, as well as just accessible throughout the city and through at the studios to order to keep increasing the amount of electric vehicles used by production. And that's one of the issues is, you know, since we don't have the sound stages that are equipped to have the infrastructure for the charging. I think that you'd, someone would have to charge it when they get home or someone would have to charge it and, you know, they live in New York City where you're going to, first of all, a high van. They don't accept in most of the garages in New York City. You know, so it had to be an outdoor a lot and they'd also have to, you know, I mean if you're parking on the city street, you're obviously not going to be able to plug it in. And what I'm doing with Shannon is that it's a very small, small percentage right now. It's just kind of hard to, especially with the trucking, since they aren't there with the trucks yet. And I know they have them and I get that. But just for our industry, since it's such long hours in different places and you're doing company moves, you need something that really can hold a charge a little longer and, that's just not there for my experience and what I've measured, you know, and like I go back to what I said before about the city of New York has I think seven electric vehicles for sanitation in their fleet, which is a lot bigger than our fleet. So, and there was a test trial and I haven't heard how that trials gone. But I know those trucks go a lot less hours than our trucks. So, and that's one of the questions in the chat said, why are you guys out there for renewable biodiesel over electric solutions. And that's the reason because, you know, we can cut emissions by 85%. Basically, I'd like to say overnight it would take a little bit like a month or two or three months to get renewable diesel. But it's a good bandaid until we actually fix are able to fix the problem in the long run. Without disagreeing with Mike, I agree with the thing you're saying, I am still incredibly optimistic with electric vehicles, I do think it's the future for a number of vehicles. And the challenge that we have to figure out is how do we recharge them. And there's a lot of really cool mobile charging solutions coming out. And so and I that kind of parlays into mobile batteries that I know we're going to talk about soon but I think that there's the interesting thing about our industry is Mike's right like we are the vehicles are what out there for 18 how many hours a day like 16 hours 18 hours, and sometimes to recharge the batteries at empty you would, you would need at least 10 hours having them sitting there recharging so when you look at it that way it's really tricky. Looking at it a different way and number of our vehicles don't actually drive that many miles a day. And they sit for a long periods of time. So if we can figure out and I think there's there's some new solutions coming they're not fully to market yet, but how to recharge the vehicles while they're working. They're sitting there, bringing the charge to them. And there's a number of battery solutions with fast charging attached to them, or maybe in the future they'll be green hydrogen solutions with fast charging attached to it that can meet the vehicles where they're at that also might be a solution. So, you know, we're leaning in everywhere we can get our hands on vehicles, we're testing piloting charging them at studio versus charging them on location, even when we've installed charging stations at studio vehicles don't come back for a couple weeks because they're out on location. So there's there's lots of challenges in our industry but I'm very optimistic that will, we will figure it out for the vehicles that make the most the biggest impact and it'll be fun to figure out together. And if I could just make kind of one comment on that also and I saw the Q&A question I think about focusing on, you know, zero emission. I mentioned it once every get who was but think about the time value of carbon. You can make a change right now that will eliminate some of that exponential growth of carbon over the next years as those solutions are implemented right. No one saying diesel is going to exist forever into the future, but it's a change you can make right now. And, you know, even batteries and everything else they have to be charged at some point whether you know there's the internal combustion or there's this external combustion, kind of running joke and renewables are out there as well. But you know if renewable diesel carbon intensity is 25 grams of CO2 for mega joule, and the US grid average is 75.6 or something. You know, it's hard to say that's not worth the effort right now when it really doesn't cost that much more to do it without having to wait for everything else. Thank you so much. Those are very insightful answers. I do want to talk a little bit about clean technology. And so I want to ask about experience with clean transportation technologies in lieu of diesel generators, and I'll direct this question to Shannon first. So we we've piloted a number of clean tech solutions on Netflix productions in the US, UK and Europe. And there's a lot coming out it's very exciting. The, there's batteries that we've used the various sizes, it's hybrid generators we pair a battery with the generator. So you run that your diesel generator, most efficiently as it recharges the battery that shuts off and just the batteries use until it gets low. We've used hydrogen power units. We have a video that I'll put in the link that after the panels over, don't go watch the video now, but after the panels over, check out the video where it explores a lot of these. But it's, it's exciting, like the cool thing about shifting off of diesel generators as Mike said that they are the biggest complaint in communities. So if you can move to a clean silent power source like batteries, you just get access to more locations you can act more agile with your needs to have it right next to set. There's just a lot of benefits with using batteries, and then, and then the hybrid generators and hydrogen power units can provide more like longer times of power because it either refill it with a green hydrogen or you refill it with a diesel and it uses it more efficiently so I'll stop there I could talk about it for hours, but I'm sure others on the panel have more insight for New York. But yeah, it's, it's really exciting. It's really exciting. Thank you. What about how do we scale the usage of some of these clean transportation technologies and I'll direct that question to Adam. Hey, so when you say clean transportation I'm sorry I'm not, you mean like battery generators. Mobile batteries. We Shannon just let us know about many benefits with it so how can we get more of them. Yeah. Well, you know we've been renting exclusively battery generators since we launched in 2019 that's that's what we focus on. There's a few challenges but we're waiting to see is the technology really improve and you know our largest unit right now is an 8k so eight kilowatt hours of capacity eight kilowatts of output so you know that's not enough to power base camp so you, you, you have to be thinking about applications so when we acquire our units we're thinking where is this going to go how is it going to be used today and where we're at now with the size of units we have there are a lot of applications for those specifically with set power. We're actually able to really disrupt generator usage within sets. And if you're able to rent enough of the units we currently have available you can actually power your set entirely with electric power which is a huge, which is huge progress right there. But larger issues like base camp power I mean it's going to take significant innovation on the tech side. We did a great study with Shannon and Netflix on kilowatt hour usage, both at base camp and set for a couple of their productions, and you're seeing at base camp, you know 300 kilowatt hours a day, being consumed at base camp from generators. That's just to power their triggers. In a set you're seeing closer to 70 to 100. So, again, when you're thinking about an 8k unit with enough of those units you can recharge you can power your set through the day, especially with more of a versatile kind of nimble model where you have those number of units that you're able to kind of place in locations and then recharge, you know where you're filming there might not be an outlet available but if you're thinking about it within, you know, reach, there might be outlets available and when you have units that can recharge fully in two and a half hours. You can swap, you can have units powering your set and you can have your other units recharging at the outlet available nearby. So, you know, already today with the units we have, you're able to do a lot. But we are waiting for more innovation to come on the battery side before they can be deployed and scaled on on a broader basis. Something I'd like to add to that is that we've been finding as we've been monitoring generators, kind of across in multiple cities is that the in our film in the film industry, the generators are often much larger than the power loads that are actually required. So, pretty consistently we're seeing that generators are running at a 10% load 15% load sometimes a five or 1% load. I mean it's really crazy how, because we have a 1600 generator that's just turned on and it's like charging something. And this is really eye opening because we really were monitoring generators to figure out, okay, what's the best clean tech solution to, you know, power the tech trucks to power base camp four sets. And what we found was that we could save a lot of fuel just by using our existing diesel generators better. That's not the end goal but it's something that everybody can do right now. And the, and it's not good for the generators to be running such low power loads generators are happiest and sure other than the call can explain this better than me but generators are happiest running a load at like 60 to 80%. When they're running consistently under 30% under 20% in that idol, they're more likely to to break down the more likely to require more maintenance. And so, it's just this like cycle where then our productions are used to having generators that break down so then we carry more big generators would in fact we could really get by with much more right sized power sources. And so thinking a little bit more about the power that's actually required by that production. You obviously need a bigger generator for base camp in the winter, then you do in the nice mild spring or fall because of the heaters that are running. But it really was a lot of fuel right now with how we operate generators so if we could write size the generator to the actual power needs you're going to be a lot more efficient with your fuel use to. That was one of the amazing things when I got a demonstration of the company, Eco silent that has a lithium battery generators was that everything's workable from the phone to like you monitor it from the phone if it goes down you get an alert on your phone everything's kind of just, you know it's very efficient. That's what I could say like it's not any there's a bunch of graphs and listen I'm not an electrician I'm not a tech person I don't know much but from seeing everything you're like wow you can really monitor this, you know a lot more efficient than you can a regular diesel generator. And I just think right now it's taking a long time to manufacture them and get them to actually being used but I think some studios I heard in the next couple months you'll start seeing these on set which is nice. Yeah but it requires like a big commitment from the productions and as it is, it's a big logistical consideration and the study we did for instance, you know, a lot of legwork involved a lot of manpower it's not as easy as like flipping a switch and you can all of a sudden figure this stuff out so you know right now, expecting productions to scale up their electric generator usage would, you know necessitate a lot more focus on these issues and as things stand nobody's expressly responsible for that oversight. You know everybody's kind of got a full plate already and in the midst of that it's it's a lot and if they don't have the tools to help them understand what their generator usage is. You know, they're kind of operating blindly and so you know the easiest solution is the one that's that's been used which is you just get a big generator and you don't have to think about it so you know it's going to take commitments from productions and possibly changes in personnel or just shifting around roles, and then advancements in the technology, but those are kind of some of the hurdles we're facing now to greater adoption. You know I like to compare this to, I'd say like almost 20 years ago when we started having to do logs, you know, while driving trucks and it was a federal thing into the law and you know I was like oh this is never going to happen everyone's going to do it and the studio set up confidence on it and you know it costs a lot more money to log and monitor, you know, drivers and have everyone but, you know, the studio saw that this is what you need to do and this is what happens so they put the money they put the force behind it and they put the confidence and that's the one thing of the studio really sets forth in the beginning of a production and says, Listen, we have your back on this we're going to spend a little more money right now on it. And this is where we want to go, then it can happen. If not, then we just have to go with our old convention always. Those are really great answers and I'm loving all of the discussion that this is gathering. So what can the city do to support fuel reduction strategies in New York City specifically. How can the city support productions. And I asked this to everyone. This is an open forum question. Well we obviously prefer the carrot versus the stick model but I think it starts with you know incentivizing productions properly and offering tax breaks where available for using green energy solutions. There again, one of the challenges are things to keep in mind is it's in order to kind of be able to claim those potential tax credits you'd have to have some awareness of what you're offsetting and that again might require monitoring so you know it's it's a little bit of a trade off and what's going to come first, the chicken or the egg but I think some of the things that are done now in terms of limiting limiting generator usage in certain areas have been hugely helpful I mean that's been a big driver for our business and that when clients shoot in certain locations they aren't allowed to use generators. So, you know, that forces them to think of alternatives and when they know that the alternatives exist and we can kind of consult with them and help them understand what it would take to power their production for the day in those locations then again they can feel confident they can feel good about it they'll know that they have the capacity that they need to complete their shoot. So maybe expanding that kind of model of just nudging productions in the right direction in certain locations and then also you know incentivizing them for adopting clean energy solutions. That's one of the main points I think you know it's, we have all the support in the world right now from the city and state you know with the tax incentive and with, you know, mom and, you know, we have a designated, you know, commissioner deputy commissioner and staff for our, our industry. I do think it's going to take a little bit of, you know, if you trade in your old truck you can you get an electric truck you're going to get a big rebate you know something like that it's just, you know after them putting so much tax incentive on our staff, what are they going to actually give for incentivizing green energy is that something that's just going to have to come within the industry and that's just a question that I have, there's no answer I feel. I also think that there's an opportunity to invest in infrastructure. You get more access to even level to charging on city streets something that our production trucks they're parked there for 18 hours they can plug in for like it's like having that infrastructure available all throughout the city. Engaging with the studio owners and the landlords of frequent filming locations to install not only DC fast charging but access to grid power. In fact, Hoover in Toronto both have a big initiative to install kiosks power keys to ask London does to and high frequency filming locations. It takes a lot of coordination with multiple industries, the power companies. So, it's expensive, but getting access to power so that we don't have to only rely on bringing our own power in places that are filmed at 200 days a year I think but also be really helpful to reduce fuel now. I think you might have better awareness about this than I do but I know from our conversations like in other places whether it's Canada or in like in the UK. They seem to be better at incentivizing or motivating the use of, you know, clean energy like electric generators for instance is there anything we could learn from those other locations that maybe would be implementable in New York that could move the needle. I think that one of the reasons why they're so active is because of exactly conversations like this and the local film office organizing all the stakeholders. And like bank Hoover just did that they got a room together they said what can we do and people started working together and doing it and finding ways to incentivize the behavior, you know they bank Hoover. So, you know, you can get a 50% off your location permit if you get rid of a diesel generator. I mean that's a great carrot right that really helps spur the local suppliers to carry more clean tech there. So I think, will that work in New York, I don't know, right so it just really depends on what getting everyone together figuring out what the hurdles are, and just trying to knock them down one by one. It's kind of dedicated focus and everyone here are around the table just helping to figure it out. I think one of the biggest hurdles and sorry to is that the most saturated areas are a little for lack of a term sick of us filming in their, their neighborhoods and for them to, you know, see tie in starting to put in on, even if we paid for them in on their streets and might cause them to get a little more annoyed at our industry, you know as nice as it would be I'm sure in in Vancouver there's not as much filming, you know, especially in a Williamsburg or Greenpoint. You know, and I think the neighbors would have a lot of pushback if they started really catering towards us and putting tie ins it might have to be for a different purpose. I think the elected there are very progressive and they're very, you know, for loose and green energy solutions so maybe they would work with us a little more. But I think it would be, I think it'd be tough that be a huge hurdle to get over is the community itself wanting that placed in. Thank you so much for all of these insights, this is, I loved that discussion. I just saw a question or somebody pose a question about the mining in the Congo and the impact of lithium batteries and I do want to say that whether it's emerald or us using the lithium iron phosphate batteries they don't use cobalt, which is one of those, you know, heavily mined inputs into lithium batteries. So at least with with our focus on those batteries that don't involve those inputs we can not make another problem worse by trying to solve it and you know our problem with the climate so. Thank you for answering that. That was going to be. Yeah, I was going to, I was going to get to that but thank you for doing that. I definitely have more questions but I wanted to get to the questions in the chat. So, there is another question as well. So, as I said, is there any info on the feasibility of recycling EV batteries and maybe percentage of an end life of battery that can be fully recycled and the carbon intensive and carbon intensity needed to recycle it. And a number of the EV companies also what when a battery doesn't no longer works in electric car. There are second life for it, particularly around storage so pairing it with solar and storage so there are there are a number of companies that are taking batteries that are using vehicles and shifting them over I think it's kind of started with the Prius, right there are a lot of batteries from Prius and that's that's a different chemistry as well. But there's some great second life alternatives already where you don't have to break it down and recycle it you can reuse the battery as it is to store renewable energy. And then I think there's a battery cycling is going to be absolutely essential. So I think that there's a lot of new technologies coming out on how to make sure to do that, most effectively. But yeah, we're going to have to figure out how to recycle them from both an economic and an environmental standpoint and I think that the materials are too valuable for them not to be recycled. Coming back to battery chemistry the lithium iron batteries have a much longer life than just lithium ion batteries so again I mean it at least can help a little bit with that with you're able to use them longer they're more durable long lasting so at least kicks that issue or that can down the road a little bit rather than making it a 10 year issue it's more of a 20 or 30 year, you know, consideration. Perfect. So there are two more questions, one of them wondering if a green initiative would flow into crew rentals, rentals for job classifications that are contractual or commonplace. I. Yeah, I had a question regarding. Sorry, Andrew. I had a question regarding the idling issue with our trucks and drivers in New York City sometimes idling for heat, etc. I believe some of the tractors used with the emerald green trailers could limit that potential. The, the emerald green tractors are the newest version of diesel tractor trailers and also utilize the edge fleet which has rather new. Like it's a new fleet, not not very old vehicles so they are, you know, I would let Matt speak on their exact exhaust, but it's at the front end of what's available now for internal combustion engines. The trailers are currently being pulled by by diesel trucks at this point so they'd still be, you know, susceptible to any idling laws within New York City if that was the question. And the trailers do not provide power to the tractors. They're not running heaters in the in the cabs of the tractors off of the batteries of the tractors. It's only completely separate there's no no sharing of power between the two. But I think, you know, sharing of power could be good and that, especially as we are able to place with clean tech. One of the things we did observe from our study was that occasionally a tractor would be used to power heat for a truck cab, you know, when you're you're using a 1600 amp generator to power a space heater. That's again what we're talking about is really low loads, you know, using more fuel than is needed. So, I think with the in the future there will be a lot more vehicle to grid scenarios where you could use an electric tractors battery to help power needs, or maybe then if the solar trailers generate more power than they need they can then, you know, recharge tractor I think that it's all possible in the future with the right technology and the right efficiencies we have to be really energy efficient to make that work. Right, so I think that it's pretty exciting the ideas of what could be possible in the future. I also think like one of the one of the biggest things is that, you know, especially on set trucks, you know, they're not running in my experience a lot of more running for heat, they're running for the gate. They usually have their space heaters or their, their other ways to keep cool that they plug into the generator, like Adam was speaking of before. One of the biggest things is, you know, running the gate on like an offset truck a lot of times, they get tickets for that but they're in the gate I've had experiences where I've had a ticket and I've been in the back of the truck and they wrote a ticket and I had to fight it and tell them that I was in the back of the truck and it's kind of proving your point proving you have to like prove that you were in the back of the truck somehow and you know I did get off of it luckily. One of the other issues is that I've had to explain to neighborhood residents that it's not the truck running it's the generator. You know it's a thing behind the truck, you know that they don't seem to a lot of people don't seem to grasp that they're two separate actually since they're attached, but they're actually two separate engines running. And it's like, that's not the truck and eventually hopefully because you explain it to them and they get what you're saying. So it gets going back to the generators are the biggest issue of things running in the New York City streets. Yeah, to your point Shannon, in terms of it like innovation, you know, like I said one of our larger units as a 5k model, you know our manufacturer is telling us that soon that 5k will be a 10k in the same size package. So you know that ability to double capacity is really, really powerful and just increases use cases, including for things like power for cabs or, you know, lift gates at the work trucks or whatever it is. So there are a lot of innovations that are coming and we're eagerly awaiting them. Once they do, it'll be easier to replace uses of diesel or gas generators. But I always like to say, you know, it always comes from the top right so if somebody doesn't need more lights or doesn't need this or there's less waste when it comes to me I've been on film shoots where it's just lit up and it doesn't have to be as lit up as it needs to be I mean those are certain small changes that might have to happen where, you know, to save a little bit of energy not to put lights where lights aren't needed necessarily. Perfect. Thank you so much. There is another question that's directed to Shannon. How are you tracking GHGs, sorry, greenhouse gases spoke S1s and S2s. So the question is how are we tracking scope one emissions which is from the fuel you burn. And how are you tracking scope to emissions which is from the electricity purchase and those so those two kind of buckets of emissions are often considered in a company's control and so they are really important to reduce and manage and clean up production. This information is typically tracked through production accounting and in the production accounting software. And if some information isn't available for example if you're at a stage that doesn't provide actual utility bills, then other information is required to estimate the energy use facility which can include the size of it, what it's used for, how long you're there, and that is used to estimate the energy use and then translate it to a carbon footprint for the production but the source data is really the purchasing on the production level and is tracked through production accounting. Perfect. There is another question. This is directed to all panelists. Why are you opting for renewable or biodiesel over electric solutions. I think that's going back to what we said before it's just the fast way you could do it right now. You know you can overnight, you know, lower the emissions by 85% while you phase in electric vehicles. You know you just can't change every single vehicle to electric. While that's happening and you're phasing out one by one and starting to get new technology renewable diesel would be, you know, it's not the all or nothing right now and this is the solution that would really change a lot of our carbon footprint. And why not do that now while we're waiting for the technology to change. I do want to point. Yeah, I completely agree. And I want to point out something because I think it was put in one of the chapter questions of is that renewable diesel is is so is a much cleaner burn and Matt maybe you can help me out with this And it's life cycle or missions as well is reduced roughly 80 to 60 80% depending on the feedstock. So I think there was a comment and one of the questions around the fact that the tailpipe emissions from a carbon standpoint are still about the same renewable and that is true. So, while it's a much cleaner burn in the sense that there's less particulate matter there's less nox emissions there's not a less other types of a bit of emissions that come from combusting diesel. The light it's the life cycle emissions that are significantly cleaner from a greenhouse gas accounting perspective so if you depending on how you're counting your carbon footprint. You really maybe looking at the whole life cycle for that so most large companies can take account for the benefits of renewable diesel. But at the tailpipe you're still emitting roughly the same amount of carbon and Matt please fact check me on any or all of that. That's pretty accurate. You know the analogy I use is think about fossil carbon that the sequestered 100 million year old diesel coming out of the ground and think of the atmosphere as a sponge. You're just trying to continually fill the sponge and fill the sponge until the sponge overflows one day and we'll see what happens I guess what we're doing we're ringing out the sponge and putting it back and ringing it out putting it back right. Right now direct direct air capture is not a thing even though a lot of people are working on it so maybe we can't suck it out of the atmosphere but we cannot put new carbon into the atmosphere. And you're right you know if you need a one megawatt generator you need the same amount of diesel fuel to make the power to spend the generator right. But if what's coming out of the tailpipe is not new carbon to the atmosphere that's still it's still in that benefit there. And then on the other emission side of stuff if you want to get more granular than the lifecycle, even with renewable diesel you're going to see lower unburned hydrocarbons lower carbon monoxide there's the aromatic free benefit there can be particulate matter and Knox benefits like there are other things outside of just the ghd conversation. Perfect thank you so much for answering that those questions. There was another question we kind of touched on the right sizing of the generators. If productions know that they don't need so much power, why are we still not right sizing the generators. Shannon do you want to take that one. Well I think it's for Mike but I'm happy to, or my opinion, but I think it's this is a production question you know like I personally we bring the generators there like I'm not, I don't know what they're running on I don't know what, you know how much everything is going on, you know not an electrician I'm not a DP, you know I don't really know what it takes to light a lot of these lights or a lot of these new HDMI lights and it seems like they do a lot of this new lighting does take a little more ampage if that's, if that's right, you know I just, like I said we just get the vehicles we support what's needed so if that's what people say we need the 1600 and that's what we do. Yeah, and, and I think it's sometimes you have a generator that's just on the electric truck, and that's the size that comes with the truck. And, and so even if you don't need that much power that's the package that was rented to the production and that's what they have. I think there is a fear that like, what if the DP calls for a bigger light, and we didn't have a plan, but we did, we, you know, we, even if you do a bunch of planning, and you think you know what the package is going to be. It runs late, you need to, you need to bring out a couple 18 case you're going to need a bigger generator for that so I think that there's this idea of always being ready for everything. And I think there's always are carrying around a larger, or the largest generators that you are ready for whatever might be needed. And I think sometimes just the smaller generators are not available. And so, having more supply of different sizes, and also making sure that you're asking for tier three and tier four generators those are going to be the cleanest burning most efficient generators as well. So all of the above, but at the bottom line I don't think that there's enough power planning conversations really actually happening now. Right, we make detailed plans about where we're going to park every truck we make detailed plans about how we're going to eat. We do not currently make detailed plans about how the power we need to provide that. So, I think that that would be a change in thinking and it would require conversations between transportation and locations and the electricians of course, the ADs, and like actually having a proper conversation about the power needs at each location, and then meeting in the most efficient way, and it's just hasn't that hasn't been a practice, because historically feel has been cheap, and, and, and historically, how much you burn wasn't a big deal. So I think it comes down to now being more aware, understanding that we should think about how we plan our power, having those conversations and then choosing the right equipment for the job. And that's, you know, and to stick up for the vendors, it's, they're giving us what we've asked for, you know, like, I'm sure that David had I didn't say, you know what 1600 amps. I'm going to buy a more expensive generator to put on there because I want to spend more money on a generator. And that's it you know I'm sure if we set the tone that we needed 1000 amp generator that 1000 amp generators would have been on the tractors. You know, I think it's full responsibility on us as production, you know, as different departments that these are the things that we've told the vendors that we need, and they've gone out and accommodated us for our needs. Absolutely. Sounds like there's their production needs to strategize or better have have more conversations about planning energy needs. Well, and then I think our suppliers, everyone on the call and had ads and other big suppliers in New York, everyone is will be very open to figuring out what's the best way forward right so I think this is where having that convening conversation and bringing people together and figuring out what is the best way forward. I mean no one wants to invest in equipment if they don't believe it's going to get rented. And so I think it's really important that we all kind of work together. So Emerald Trailers is currently hoping to do like a feasibility study just on this exact purpose. I was having meetings earlier so if there's any, any way to gain engaged information in terms of what the true power needs are you know I got I saw some figures before talking, you know, people were talking about the draw of base camp versus set and whatnot, where we're trying to be those people that can provide that that battery solution on set and give you the option and not be, not be worried be ready for nearly situations not talking about for 80 foot lifts and you know with all the 10 case on them but normal under normal circumstances so if there's anything I can do to help be part of that conversation, I would very much like to be. And that's in my experience if you know the studio commits to spending the money and I think they want the vendors going to go out there and build it for them. You know and and and start renting it so that's where it comes from as long as the money's there and as long as they're committed to renting the vehicle, they'll go on and build whatever you want. Exactly right. Amazing. Great questions. Thank you so much is unless there's other questions that are coming through on the chat. That's all the questions that were asked. But there was such great conversation, such great insights. Thank you so much to all of the panelists. And so now we're going to move it to the open forum where anybody can ask any questions on sustainable production if there are any. And they don't have to necessarily be about fuel reduction strategies. Panelists you're welcome to stay for that office hours section. Let's check the chat. Okay. So I don't think any questions or any more questions are coming through on the chat. So I just, I really want to thank you all again. I want to thank the panelists, mom, and the New York City film green program for hosting this workshop, and for providing this space for us to, to learn, and to continue to try to reduce our industry's impact, especially with such a big impact area like the transportation department. So thank you very much. And I do want to remind everyone about the next panel. The next panel will be on March 14. It'll be on sustainability on screen and normalizing sustainable choices and actions for our audiences. And it'll include green storytelling and products on screen. And Noel, if you will put up the slides again. Yeah, for that last page. Oh, perfect. We have some resources and tips available for everyone. This is contact information for some of the panelists here, but also some tips from the green production guides peach, the production environmental accounting checklist. Take a screenshot and try to enact as many on your productions or be mindful of your energy usages on set. And if you go to the next slide, you'll see how you can follow mom on social media they are at made in New York. This is their website, where you can get access to all previous panels as well. And recordings. This episode was also recorded and will be posted to the New York City film green website where you can watch it and rewatch it as many times as you'd like. And then you can also follow Earth Angel on social media and check out the Earth Angel website for more information and more resources and see how you can work with us. But thank you. Unless there's more questions. Let's go to the chat. Thank you. Everyone saying thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you panelists. Do you have any last, last words. Thank you for having thanks for having us. Perfect. Thank you so much. And I guess that concludes our, our panel and our workshop today. Let's see. Oh, and there is another question. Is there any training from the unions happening on this. I'll say not that I know of, but it's, I mean it's going to have to happen sooner than later. And I think once the tech hits the sets you're going to have to everyone's going to want to know about it, be able to operate it or, and hopefully that will be something that 520817 can have combined efforts in. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, I guess head to your local union and check. There's always some kind of workshops going on and trainings. Yeah, I guess it's just on your local area. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much again. And yes, that concludes our panel. Thank you. Bye everyone.