 Before we start a couple of things, one is of course the anti-trust policy of the Linux Foundation which we follow. So everybody has to follow that policy wherever you are depending on your jurisdiction. The other is the fact that we respect each other even when we are disagreeing, we are not going to be, we are not going to be disrespectful to each other. That's the, these are the only two requirements and I have to also say that a lot of the material that I have in this was heard by the people who came to this, came to this, for the identity working group presentation and I think it is Cindy and Alfonso who were there. So forgive me if I repeat some of that stuff, especially the definition and everything around the metaphor, the metaphors and what it means for us. I'm going to share my screen and I have to, you have to tell me whether you can see it or not. Just a second, you can see this screen, right? Thank you. Yes. Wonderful. Hello. Hi. Elena. How are you? Just give me a second because I'm getting interrupted by somebody. Start with the presentation. So the rough shape is this that we are going to talk about what is the metaverse and how does it differ from a regular user interface? And what are the possibilities, especially in the middle of crypto winter? It is good to remind ourselves why we are doing all this because as you no doubt know things change, paradigm shifts happen but slowly nobody can predict the true arc of the transformation. We have all been working on these subjects for a long time, especially blockchain, cryptocurrency and the higher constructs on top of it which are basically the apps just like the web 2 apps like Facebook and others. This is going to be, you know, these apps appear on the higher levels, layers of the ecosystem. But for the higher layers to work, we have to have either very solid low layers or rapid changes in the lower layers to support this kind of, you know, the apps that are coming about. So before we start, you know, this is a rough agenda but it's not going to be followed strictly. Before we start, we have to look at the history of what happened. The earlier slide that I had identified the first person, his name is Emmanuel Goldberg. This is 1925 to 32. He basically was able to compress data into a very small area like a micro doc, which is a purely analog technology but it made it possible to compress entire libraries, entire ecosystems of knowledge into very small area that can be carried around by a person which is similar to the situation we have which obviously the content producers are scattered all over the place and we can access that information here. It's more about possession of that in a very small area, micro doc. Emmanuel Goldberg proposed something called a statistical machine which is obviously related to the universe contained in these micro dots. It becomes very difficult to search that. And as you can imagine, the rise of the search engines technology has demonstrated in the Web 2 world anyway that the power of that paradigm and everybody relies on the search engine. And if you think about the second one which is the memex and that was proposed by Vanuvar Bush in the 30s or 40s, then we have a bunch of people who are, you can say, novelists or theorists. Most of the ideas in number 3, 4, 5 and 6 have been realized in the games like the Neil Stephenson's coinage of metaverse in the snow crash has been realized to a certain extent in the gaming world. But the main thing to concentrate on there is most of these people considered the metaverse or any kind of immersive hyper reality a bad thing, which means it would turn people into couch potatoes or into somebody who was under the control of some super organism or someone, you know, the world was not a good world. But as we know the, any idea like blockchain or metaverse is a double edged sword. It has good and bad aspects. The bad aspects are things like, you know, total immersion in this world will obviously be not good for your mental health and would allow control to pass from a personal level to some other, you know, the collective and it becomes more and more difficult to express a personal viewpoint, opinion or something you build stand out in the sea of evenness or a sea of, you know, so many creators. So chance against plays a big role in the choice of who is to come. The number seven fortnight Roblox Minecraft, Microsoft Flight Simulator. These are the, these are the ways in which we have experienced the metaverse today. And the thesis in many of the, of the later visions for the metaverse goes much beyond games games of course are the sort of foundational use case for the metaverse, but already we see a certain aspects of markets and identity playing their part in getting the metaverse to the next level. Whether it will reach the next level or not is a, is a question, but it is possible to say that just like in the older transformations. One, the pace of change cannot be predicted. Sometimes it takes years, but then the whole thing snowballs into a, you know, like nobody could have predicted the rise of social media back in the 90s. Nobody could have predicted Amazon. Nobody could have predicted, you know, platforms like that. So the coming universe or, or in this case, since we are hyper ledger, I would say the hyperverse is also unknown. It's an unknown country, but we know certain things are happening. That is a combination of a engaging hyper three dimensional world combined with presence, not only of yourself, but of others simultaneously persistent world that will, you know, is either based on the real world or based on somebody's imagination or a combination of the two. So that's why the the last item here Planet Labs is a very interesting company that was started by a NASA X employee is a founder. It's been around for about 10 years and they've been, they have been launching swarms of satellites that map the earth, not just once, not it's not Google Earth. It is constantly circling the globe and sending a dynamic image of the world. So you can see how the world is transformed. So my contention is that that is a public benefit corporation, which means that a lot of the data that they have can be downloaded for free. And it can be used in constructing your own, let's say hybrid universe, which is very similar to the real universe, but at the same time can be can, you know, it can be rooted in reality, but at the same time, not. So from here I switch to the definition, you know, which we already went over a little bit that is a realism to cause psychological and emotional emotion. The psychological and emotional part is very important. Last time when I presented it, somebody said, you know, this is nothing but a UI. And he also called it a meta curse, not a meta verse. The point is, you know, it is it is a UI and the UI is all we have to interact with the world, even the real world, because it is mediated by perception. My, you know, my eyes, my taste, my hearing, my touch. All of that is what I use to interact with the real world. And that's, that's how humans traditionally have. And obviously, to create a immersive reality, you have to use each one of these perceptions to create either an alternative world or an overlay on this world that enhances the experience or gives you more information. And the other thing is ubiquity that is accessible through all existing digital devices and from anywhere. Interoperability, which we will touch upon later. And scalability, which talks about the, you know, right now in massive games in the battle Royale or whatever, whatever they call it in Fortnite, only about 100 or 200 people participate. But what if the entire planet showed up in one of these so-called meta verses, obviously it will crash. You know, it cannot scale to that present to what they think is the definition of the meta verse. So obviously, the meta verse is not there yet, according to the ideal definition. But parts of it are there. And in each one of these definitions, I have highlighted just the part that deals with the economic or commercial interests and payments. But they pretty much agree on everything else, which is that it's an immersive world that where people interact and it is persistent. That means if I go to sleep and come back and enter the meta verse again, all the items that I had collected would remain that it's persistent across identity, but it's also persistent. I mean, persistent across time for a single individual and also persistent across space. That means I can go to worlds, go to areas that I've never been to where other people have been. And I will have similar, let us say, visual and auditory experience as they had. So that is a persistent across space. But in all of these you see there's two things that are constant. One is, of course, the notion of identity and a notion of value that is attached to the identity, which means property, basically a view of property. And then once you have these two, then property can be sold to others, can be lent, can be aggregated between several people. And then you can have other financial defy sort of agreements, arrangements on top of it that will take it to a market level. So these are the developments that everybody's working on, but obviously we are far from having realized all of those. And by the way, towards the end, I'm going to have a Q&A at least 10, 15 minutes so that you can ask your questions, but you can also put in any questions on the chat. So one of the ways in which these kind of collective collections are looked at is through a negation, that means neti neti, which is basically a concept in a dueta, which is sort of trying to reach the concept of Atman, the self or the universal unconscious. So it is by saying, oh, it is not this, it is not this, it is not this. Then what is left after all those negations are done is an approach to saying it is this or it is, you know, it's a spread over everything. So in that sense, it says it is not a virtual world. It is not a virtual space. It is not virtual reality. It is not a digital and virtual economy. It is not a game. It is not a virtual theme park or Disneyland. It's not a new app store. It is not a user generated content platform. So when we come to this user generated content bit, you can see that some elements of a marketplace can be formed there. I mean, it is not just a company selling to you, but also you're generating content which you can then monetize. You can generate stuff so everybody, you know, you can choose to become a creator. That was unleashed a little bit during the web today's but in this in the metaverse it's felt that that would become much more prevalent. The two visions, of course, we have heard about before, which is one is augmented reality, which is you have a lens or a something that you look through that shows you the real world, but at the same time, that real world is created with with data that makes you, you know, actually make sense of the real world. For example, I look at a tree. Instead of just the tree. I'm also presented with a way to look at what kind of tree it is. What is the cycle. Does he do a street. What kind of flowers does it have. You know, you can watch. You can have rich content overlaid on the on the real world. The other is of course virtual reality, which is everything is obscured. You are wearing a space helmet. And you cannot see the real world, but you are fully in a virtual or 3D world. And then you have a hybrid. Well, we come to this slide which was presented before. Also, in the earlier, you know, almost all the slides till this one, or even later have been in the first presentation on the identity working group, but here I can identify the elements of a market. There is a digital currency. There is a marketplace or digital commerce where I can advertise or prices. So a marketplace is basically where you can discover discover and something of value. And not only can you discover it discover also means somebody's offering it for sale. So there's a price attached to it. Then you have a non fungible tokens, which are obviously the, the lifeblood of the metaverse because it is just like us. These tokens are unique. But like we work for money, which becomes a fungible token, the non fungibility of our effort or talent gets translated into a fungible token because then we can engage in exchange with others. We can look at the way in which this non fungible tokens are in a spectrum between individual existence as a unique object. On the one side as a fractionalization of that object. And on the other side, as a collection of such objects that would provide cash flow and securitization. Digital assets. Then the events online shopping workplace social media digital humans and so on. The point is, it is a vast collection of various elements. This says a metaverse, not the metaverse. That is important to note because right now we only have metaverses metaverses that are either galaxies like Roblox, which the game where you can build your own game so it is providing a foundational sort of structure where you can build your own game or in Minecraft, build your own world Roblox build your own little worlds, or it is a fully immersive game which is no, you know where you cannot participate in terms of UGC other than probably creating something to be sold like a armor or sword or something else. And all of these are controlled by usually by the ERC 1155 standard that we money and I used to create the whole side wholesale CBDC token. So that shows you the interaction between, you know, copies of unique objects and currency itself, which is, which has got its own uniqueness built into it in the sense that it has it belongs to a country. There are no universal currency and there are ways in which you can interchange them through a foreign exchange marketplace. So similarly, the digital currency in a native token like in Ethereum is also limited to a world of Ethereum. Now I want to transform it to another world that I have to go through a blockchain bridge or some kind of a transformer transformation to create, you know, to be able to transport that value from one place to another, which is basically interoperability of some sort. So, so what does it take to take a metaverse and and transform it into a component of the metaverse. So, where do we, you know, in the metaverse, according to the EU and other people, there are so many different aspects that have to be looked at competition, data protection, liabilities in general, and how do you attach to identity, financial transactions, cyber security, health, accessibility and inclusiveness. And the other, you know, which I didn't actually go. I don't have the slide for it, but the metaverse itself will be a just like the internet. It doesn't talk about a single internet. It talks about the internet, which is every network that is connected by the TCP IP protocol. So, in order to have a metaverse become the metaverse, we need standards for value interchange identity and interchange of three dimensional objects. Obviously, this is far from where we are today. Here, I just listed, you know, some of the areas in which the metaverse is being used and education, architecture, engineering and construction real estate. That means you can actually build something or propose something and then go into it in a virtual 3D world and see where the problems are and try to make changes or sort of sit commons in the AEC part, which is architecture, engineering and construction. And then the second part, real estate where you actually sell the property, sell something or rent it out. Let's say you want to do it on Airbnb and you have a metaverse representation of your property and Airbnb has, let's say, millions of such properties. And you can go into that particular meta galaxy or whatever you want to call it and tour the different properties and be able to go inside each one and experience it and then make your choice for the real world. So this is metaverse used for real world activity, which is a marketplace also because you are the middle of all the different rental properties and you're in a particular area where you're planning to visit and you choose one of them. Then of course the retail lifestyle type activities, exercise, dating, weddings and of course, intimately connected to that as a sex work, which nobody of course talks about, but it's a big money maker. And I think there are some universes opening up where you can actually engage either directly or indirectly with sex workers, meaning in a collective sense or an individual sense. Then entertainment, including sports gambling and other events. So they, you know, of course fashion is a big player in the metaverse and they're advancing advertising and governance using NFT governance tokens in a DAO type setup. I'm actually a member of that city DAO setup in Wyoming. And you basically engage in city planning with the others who are there in that metaverse. So we already went through all this stuff. To a certain extent, the main thing that we need is a metaverse protocol of some sort that covers whatever we talked about. And the standards, usually the, you know, the standards that are mentioned for a three dimensional world is a universal scene descriptor. A lot of people have adopted this. Some of the biggest challenges in the meta to transform a metaverse into the metaverse are the individual companies triangle hold on data. Right now, there is a big debate, or let's say, a big play where Apple, for example, in the name of privacy has locked out. You know, and it's supposed to be consent driven. All the other companies and Apple themselves take like a 30% cut of selling games. So that economy is lopsided. There are definitely gatekeepers. And they are in the way in the in the, you know, blocking progress and taking a lot of the of whatever the metaverse is producing terms of value for themselves. 20 30% I think is the for game for games apps. And even in the other apps like Roblox, for example, the content creators who create Roblox worlds do only get 20 or 30% about 40% goes to the people who sell it. And the other goes to the platform. So the platforms are taking 20 to 40% of the value that is generated by the metaverse. There's a chat. Okay, so who should be involved needed to be involved in deriving a metaverse protocol. So we have we'll have to defer that to the towards the end I'll I'll I have my opinions but in a protocol sense. There's always a, there's always a balance between a standard development organization who will specify a protocol or ad hoc protocols being born, because of the scale of adoption, like for example, ERC 20 is an Ethereum based protocol and but it has taken the world by storm for a creation of cryptocurrencies. If you step back a little bit, you can see that the NFTs that are in the metaverse are being financed. Let's say, or or you can buy the NFTs using cryptocurrency so cryptocurrency is a payment frail and the NFTs are what you buy. Protocol wise, the USD developed from Pixar. So it is being, it is being adopted by a lot of the game development engines or platforms. So that's why it's getting a lot of play. So again, a an example of an ad hoc protocol growing. So I think one of the main roadblocks against all this is the fact that there were there was no protocol that is a metaverse protocol developed organically, or even from a organization like DARPA, which developed the TCP IP, which underlies even the metaverse, right, because everything is now based on the internet protocol, which is then topped by the TCP. And then of course you built HTTP and others on top of it. So similarly, the metaverse protocol will be built on the ground, you know, on the rock of TCP IP, whether it will be then built on top of HTTP, we don't know. So I'm going to the next slide. I'm trying to try to. Okay. So this is where the building happens, and you have the networks, devices, computing, virtual world engines, interoperability, payment rails, and identity. But what is, what are we buying value in the metaverse value anywhere is but is nothing but data, data is the key data that is carried around either on the blockchain, or elsewhere but pointed to by the blockchain and secured usually with the public private key pair. How do we escape from this into a different world where that all that stuff is there but is seamless. So again, I put together this stack that in the on the top is assets, which is the focus of today's presentation. And here I'm bringing in the various elements, which is called the ABCD of the metaverse or ABCD of DeFi or whatever you want to take it. But these are the components that AI, AI, blockchain, cryptocurrencies and DeFi, which is ABCD. So we have about five more minutes. And then I will open it up for questions. So, as we were saying, data is the representation of value. And the railroad according to these guys should be who has written a paper and it's in, it's in the, it's in the references section of this presentation which will be available. And as a railroad big data as a cars, which I mean, you know, it's a sort of a strained analogy, but here are the various markets that will arise from it. So, which underpins the NFTs and the NFTs overlay everything, then you have the FinTech, InsureTech and PropTech, which are the three areas FinTech in the sense of pure financial transactions and pure financial experience. And here, of course, the various companies that make up the key players in the US and China and China. And Shulte's book, Money Metaverse, deals with a lot of case studies, both in the US and in the other important market China. In China, the, we were talking a little bit about the public infrastructure. They are creating something called the BSN, which is going to be a platform where you can have multiple blockchains. But they're going to have strict control over how you get into it. In terms of the interoperability between the blockchains. So, there is that. Now, in the US, or in Europe, we don't have the government constructing such a public utility. Although, although in the US and in Europe, we do have public utilities like railroads, which are semi governmental roads. And, you know, some other forms of infrastructure where there is a lot of coordination, like electrical grid. So similarly, these constructs in the pub in in the US will probably be controlled by the regulatory aspects that control how data can be held and disseminated, especially if it is going to be GDPR type situation where you're supposed to be allowed to transport your data from one network to another network from one platform to another platform from one metaverse to another metaverse, creating the possibility of the metaverse. So that's how probably it's going to come about with one more slide. I stopped my presentation here. I'm just talking about the NFT markets. This is a generic slide, NFT stands in the middle. Then you have on the one side fractionalization of the NFT, which creates multiple fractions of the same NFT. Like for example, when you want a huge apartment complex to be divided into fractions and and you as an investor can own a fraction or two or more than one fraction. One way of going about it. The other way is you take multiple NFTs and originate a sort of a securitized NFT and then do the trenches like in a regular mortgage where the cash flows for different entities go into these trenches. Now we keep talking about cash flows. The cash flows have to be fungible token, some some sort of fungible token. Right now, it is the token of a usually of a single platform, usually a which can then subsequently be exchanged to a fiat currency to be used in the real world. Now I talked about security decision tranches, but I haven't shown where the security decision tranches go back to being sold as bonds, similar to the fractionalization of a single NFT. Now the transaction tranches then fractionalized to be sold as bonds, just like in a regular, you know, in a mortgage bond. So these are the references that I have and then we have Q&A. In case you guys have any questions, let's talk about that. One, Ron's question, who's going to be in charge. I've kind of partially answered that. Ron, please. Thanks, Vipin, and thanks for this presentation. I appreciate your thought leadership and all the metaverse work and I showed up a little late. So apologies to the group. I guess the question I've got on the metaverse protocol. I kind of wanted to dive into that a little bit and the reason I asked it was, it strikes me that to engage in a multiverse seamlessly. In other words, you Vipin participating in multiple metaverses seamlessly is a very different protocol than the world we come from think, you know, from an internet perspective where you reference DRC 20. It deals with things like identity and true capture and ownership of your identity, etc. I'm just curious if anyone had seen kind of foundational work in a metaverse protocol. And I know what you're talking about, Vipin, from the perspective of how that develops, but I'd love someone to sanity check me. It seems to me a metaverse protocol would be a very, very different thing. Yeah, I mean, it is by baby steps that is going to grow, but there are some interoperability work. There's some interoperability work even done in the metaverse itself. And that might grow into some kind of a metaverse protocol, where you're allowed to take assets from one one game or one metaverse into another. Anybody else has any experience with this stuff for Or just tell me if I'm perceiving it wrong. No, no, you're right that it is. It would enable a sort of a a leap that is totally not commensurate with the change that it will bring, meaning, if you really have a metaverse protocol that is globally adopted, then it would create, you know, in the identity part, for example, I say that the SSI and a edge wallet that has credentials in it could be used to transform identity. But as you know, the DID work and the SSI work about credentials is not just about identity, but it's on a bigger, bigger level. So maybe there's something there that you can use to. Okay, so there is an exchange between Sandy and Ron. Well, Sandy shared an article about meta and Microsoft kind of beginning the standards creation of the metaverse which Sandy thanks for that and I suspect there are parts some people in the world who kind of fear that meta and Microsoft are going to be doing that but interested in other people's opinions. Yeah, I'm going to stop the share here and let's continue our discussion with whatever, you know, I hope this was useful, especially for the people who came. Who came to the older presentation on identity. Anyway, anything else from Ron or Hi, no, this is Paul Bohan first time first time attending. Hi, my question and this has to do with with the metaverse and I'm trying to keep things more metaverse focus I have some other questions but yeah how do you address the uniqueness of representative assets and representative identities, and the real assets and real identities on which they're based if a meta identity owns a meta asset, which is representative of real estate or real dollar based asset, and the real person dies or is otherwise incapacitated or the identity is stolen. The real assets stolen as well. And I'm just, I'm just, I know it's a pretty broad question but I'm still trying to get my hands around. Okay, so representation assets, what you mean like avatar or something right. Yeah. Yeah, so let's talk. Let's first talk about about the same person going into different, different worlds. Before we start talking about dying, which is obviously not the same person, but somebody who's a delegate or was inherited that that property or whatever. So, if the control of all the stuff is using some kind of a private public key pair. The same world we understand that right, we understand, unless of course somebody steals it. In which case there has to be a property law of some sort applying to this. You know, I don't know how far the regulations are going to go to detect that theft and to have a property law properly enforced in the metaverse or in fact, in the cryptocurrency universe for that matter. The second is, how do you transform one as one avatar which I control. And now I want to take the same or similar avatar into another world. The problem is, not all metaverses use the same way to represent the three dimensional object, they don't have the same capabilities they don't have. So, there can be a rough simile of one in the other. For now, and unless there is a both. How do you extinguish or how do you say, okay, I want to transform this avatar into this other metaverse where I'm the same person or similar person. Right. Then the other the other possibilities that I take all my assets that are in metaverse a and take it to metaverse B, or I take only part of them. So how do you burn those assets in metaverse a and then how do you issue them in metaverse B. So, right now, there is, you know, it is all through intermediaries for cryptocurrencies. For example, you have the, you know, you have a way of transferring crypto from one blockchain to another. You have intermediaries who have presence in both, or you have a chain of intermediaries like in lightning or something but lightning of course interacts only with Bitcoin so it's only for interaction with the real one. So, you know, these are all questions that are extremely important and hopefully we will address them as time goes by and I'm sure that there are. What is what are these chats. I think the next group is already arrived on the scene. Take us out. Okay. It's a long question. I'll study some questions by email or whatever. Yeah, yeah, we can engage in this as a sort of conversation. And GDPR rules, by the way, because GDPR rules about basically we'll call forgetability of assets. Yes. And personally identifiable information to what degree we think that will apply in the metaverse. Yeah, I mean, we, the EU paper, which actually has a link in my, in my presentation, which I will put on the on the meeting page does talk about some of these things but obviously does not. I mean, they are still not in the rulemaking phase it's more like a research or a paper that is meant to be to provoke discussion, which is similar to our, you know, our discussion here because. Anyway, Nico is here, and I will close this call. And I'll post the recording on the meeting page. And maybe we'll, and from next time onwards, we'll choose a some some zoom that is not clashing with the next. You know, gotcha. Anyway, I'm going to close the meeting so that means Nico will. Maybe I can, I can try to transfer. I think I have a host code as well so I think I can just take it over. Okay, let's see. All right. Thank you very much. So let me, let me just stop the recording.