 And Alicia, let me make you co-host. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Should I start? You can, if you want to. We're ending a little early today, so. Get the preliminaries over. Okay. My name is Alicia Walker, and I am calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I am calling the July 29, 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 534pm. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time, they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Deborah Ferrera. Present. Russ Vernon Jones. Present. Darius Cage. Present. Breanna Owen. Present. Annana Baku. Yeah. Okay. I want to take a couple minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we'll listen to your comments carefully. We will then hear comments from members who have something to report. Then we can get right into the agenda as follows. A discussion of the questions submitted by Russ Vernon Jones. The resident oversight board in regards to membership stipend and consultants. The standing committee. Can you see the agenda? Sorry. No, yeah, perfect. Thank you, Miss moison. I have group check ins and crest implementation follow up. Our first order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any members of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Miss moisten to turn on your microphone. I asked that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments, but we will be listening carefully. I don't think we have any one is it okay if I continue. Okay. This is time for members to update us on any work they are doing or events that are coming up. Does anyone have any items they'd like to share. Miss Pat. Hi everyone. I hope we will have enough time tonight to decide on the name for the standing committee. For the be I would like to submit the document to the time manager ASAP. Thank you for members who responded back. Thank you very much. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Farera. Just to say that myself and Miss Pat, we went to the paraprofessional kind of speak out and organize organizers that were out at the town common on Saturday. I was there a little bit late, so I'm not sure what happened in the beginning, but at least, you know, there were a lot of people out there, helping out. For me, I wish there had been more people because this is such an important topic, especially in terms of our schools and education and, you know, our children within the public school system, especially in terms of having, making sure that all children are being aid, you know, given the aid that they need in the classroom and help. So it's a very important issue, but I was glad to see, you know, a lot of people there and of course there were a lot of people also in support of a lot of the work that we're doing. So, you know, it was good, but hopefully next time there'll be more people. Thank you, Miss Farera. Miss Pat. So just to add to what Miss Deborah just stated, I just want to let everybody know that actually white folks came to me to thank us, CSWG, for the work we're doing. We shared it. People are tuning in and, you know, I wanted to share that with everyone. And definitely to also see the firefighters come out to support our para educators was really good. It was really diverse resident and employees of Amistad that came out. So I hope that the school committee, you know, paid attention and do the right thing for our frontline, you know, workers who do make it possible for our students that need extra support to succeed in our school system. It was a great gathering. I came when they were finishing up speeches. So, but it was a good turnout. It was good. Thank you, Miss Pat. Okay. And so I would like to move on to the next part of our agenda, which is discussion on questions submitted by Russ Vernon Jones. I wanted to gauge where the group is at and see if we're all open and open in bringing back this conversation around community policing. Miss Pat. I recommend that we table this questions for next week because we have short time today. I mean, we could, you know, try to discuss it. My leaning, I can't speak for everyone is for us to recommend that the town needs to heal. The resident needs to heal. Like the visioning process that Dr. Barbara Love had recommended. Like, I don't even know how we can even begin to discuss community policing without really dealing with healing process. But it's hard for me. It's challenging. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Ferrara. Yeah, I just want to second Miss Pat said in terms of like, I think if we could table this till next week, because, you know, the other the the other issues on our agenda, I think it's going to take up a big chunk of time and then, you know, we need to wrap it up by seven. So anyway, that's my thing. That's why I don't even want to get into the kind of nitty gritty of it. I would just say like, let's let's put it on to next week. Okay. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I agree we should not try to deal with this this week. Okay, great. So unless there is anybody who is in disagreement, I am going to move on to the next portion of our agenda, which is the resident oversight board in regards to membership stipends and consultants. Miss Pat. So again, I want to thank Mr. Vernon Jones for really putting this together for us, like I've read it three times. And in terms of membership, I know we've discussed it in the past. I am wondering if the language could read up to seven members like between five and seven members, it doesn't have to be like specific number. The language, something like that, even though, you know, I was leaning towards seven members, but, you know, to stay up to seven members, minimum of five members. That's something I want to throw out. The second thing is the stipend. And I will shut up after that. The second thing is that the time manager had on budgeted ADK for everything that has to do with equity for this current fiscal year. And I would like to propose that it's different the 3000 for each oversight board member. Because of the budget, you know, so that that would be enough in the money to do other stuff that is related to equity. Plus, we don't want to, you know, recommend something that the town council will reject. I'm already hearing that the think is no go. And this is just my, I'm talking for myself. And I'll shut up. Thank you, Miss Pat. Yeah. Yeah, I also want to thank Mr. Russell and Jones for putting this together. I mean, it's a tremendous amount of work. Thank you so much for getting us going with this and, you know, really making our lives easier in terms of putting together this body of work. And I have a couple of things that I wanted to kind of highlight that in the document itself, that you know that kind of came up for me. I guess the thing isn't and it's not in any of those three kind of sections on the agenda but I still have a question around, I guess the investigations portion everything that has to do with investigations portion is kind of, you know, I think we still need to clear that a little bit more. Because one, it still says, so I guess I want to get from from you Mr. Green Jones like it still says that the police can do their own internal investigations and then obviously if the board disagrees with that. Then they can decide to do their own investigation. And so for me, I think that needs to be cleared up because one, you know, there hasn't been trust with the internal investigation so I don't know why is it that we're not just saying that, you know why we're removing that portion out of it I guess I need to know more to see why we're still keeping the internal investigations portion in there. Is it a money thing is it whatever. And if it is, then that shouldn't be a barrier, you know because we need to do what's best for the community, you know, and I don't want to use a mechanism that hasn't worked in the past and still utilize it in this way, you know. So for me the better thing would be to have, you know, for the board to have their own cadre of investigation investigators to utilize in this situation I don't think it's a good idea for the board members to be doing investigations because remember I've been investigated for years that you know I supervised investigators for discrimination claims and investigations are very complicated, very difficult. And you have to be impartial you have to know what you're doing you have to know how you're asking questions to the witnesses. You know, and then obviously putting together a report, and all that that is very intricate work, and I wouldn't recommend board members be doing investigations because I saw that to in terms of in this. So, so that's why for me it's like it should be you know the cadre of investigators that they have there should be some money for that. They put together the investigative they do the investigation to put together investigative report. I don't know if they necessarily need to make the recommendations, you know a lot of times they just put together investigative report and then the board could, you know read that and then come up with their own decisions at that point. You know what to do or whatever. But that would be something that we could decide, but, but yeah so I have some issues with with that portion and I want to hear, you know what you're thinking is about that because I have, I have concerns. The other one, in terms of what Ms Pat said, I agree with I think it should be seven members, five by park and at least to our black African American or African descent members. I think that's the way I would, I would like to have it written, just because seven members seems like it's a good number. So, five might be a little bit too, too little in terms of like people are absent if they can make it because this is going to be something that's going to be exhausting taxing some people might need some breaks here and there. So seven members would give you, you know, a good solid amount of people to make certain decisions. Yeah, so I'll stop there. Ms Pat. I also wanted to raise, are we planning to do standing committee charge for oversight board. I know this is a recommendation. Is this what we're presenting? Like we have the DEI standing committee. Are we going to have similar team or is this what we're giving to the time manager? Ms Pat, I just need a little bit of clarification. So all the work that Mr. Roswell and just has done. I know, are we going to have another document just one page, you know, for oversight board what their charge is or not. Does that make sense? You mean like written out in the format of what we did. Well, I mean, I thought, I just thought that what Mr. Varendra Jones was putting together was kind of like, okay, why we need an oversight board? What's going to be their function? Why, why they needed so on so forth? I thought that this is what we needed to do. Do we need to create a charge for them too? I guess I'm a little bit confused. I don't know if we need that. Ms. Moyston. So I believe that the charge would come from out of from the town from out of the information that is here, of course, with your review and approval, I would assume, but that's typically how the charges are created. And then there's a template that all standard charges look like from the town side. So then I have a question. So if the town is going to do the charge, so why did the town manager ask us to come up with the DEI standing committee charge? I think that one was a little different because because that too will come and he and it will be put into the format of what our charges look like, but the information he needed, he needed the guidance and the information from the CSWG. Okay. You just answered my question. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Moyston. Ms. Ferreira. I guess now I'm confused and maybe I missed it while I was out, you know, during vacation when I missed the two meetings. So this charge over here is for the DEI charge. I thought it was for the standing committee in terms of those, the group that's going to replace us. Why are we calling it the DEI charge, I guess. It's not only one. Yeah, it's the standing committee is the committee that will replace us. That will support DEI department as well as press department. You're just calling it that. Calling it a DEI committee. Okay, gotcha. So the town manager wants us to come up with charge for this standing committee. No, no, I get that now. Yeah, so like five minutes ago, I posed the question, do we need to come up with charge for the oversight board from the material that Mr. Ross has already provided us? That was my question. Ms. Moisten clarified that the town will extract, you know, the charge for the oversight board based on this material, if I understood what you said. Yeah, well, let me, let me just say before you answer Ms. Moisten. No, I understand it was just what was throwing me off was just the fact that you had already been calling in the DEI even though I know we're going to name it. And I get it in terms of us doing the charge for that because that's the group that's going to replace us so we're the ones that kind of know, most intimately what that group should be working on so it makes sense for us to create the charge. For me in terms of the oversight board is more so, you know, why we need an oversight board because that was the thing right we're making recommendations in terms of our second charge. Our second part of our charge as a CSWG and that was part of it in terms of what is it that's needed for police reform and so on and so forth. And the oversight board is this document is trying to answer that question. So I definitely understand the difference. But I still want to hear from Mr. Vernon Jones about the investigators portion because I have a lot of concerns about that. So hopefully that didn't get forgotten. Thank you, Ms. for Ms. Pat. So, Ms. Washington or the coaches, are you guys going to get the clarification from the town manager because I don't want things repeat itself like we did with the Pad A. When the coaches presented at the town council and they kept saying, what is the job description for this respondents, what is this, what is that, what is that. So I don't want at the end of our chat of our work. Then the town goes, well, you give us recommendation for oversight and why we need it. What is their charge. I mean, if the town is going to do it, that's fine. If not, I don't think it's very hard. We can just pull stuff together for the charge. Yeah. I just don't want to say, oh, yeah. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Moisten. I just think that the information for the charge will come out of this document is my thought on it to where it's a scope of responsibilities and the membership all of that is the defines the charge and so in. Yeah. And that's what would be used as I did my understanding you correctly. Is that what you're asking? I mean, I can't predict what's going to happen with the council. So I don't. It's helpful, Ms. Pat Brianna and I are in conversation with Mr. Mr. Backelman in terms of rescheduling the conversation that we were wanting to have with him. And I think we have, we're going to be able to meet with him sometime next week and we can add that to the list of things we asked just to get clarification if that's helpful. I mean, this document is very comprehensive and I appreciate it. With the template that the town has, I mean, I don't know if that's what is on their website, but I looked at different committees, you know, how the format, how they set up. This document is very comprehensive. I mean, from the chat, we're not going to put in like complaint procedure, for example, in the chat, but it's okay. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, let me come a number of things. My sense is that, you know, Brianna and Alicia and I had one meeting with the chief of police with an earlier draft of this. I think if we can come to relative agreement on, on this document that this could be the basis of Brianna and Alicia and me going back to the chief and see if we can't get an agreement with the chief about how all this is going to work and go forward. And if we have the chief on board that it seems to me we ought to be able to get the town manager on board. At that point, I think we would need to have a conversation with the town manager about how I charge document or the actual thing that will be voted by the town council will be developed. I would like that to happen. Well, this is still, well, we still have some control over it. And I mean, I think the text is basically here and can be extracted but I'm hoping that maybe the town manager and we can work together to make sure we're in agreement about just how that extraction occurs. But I'd like us to, to work with the chief first and see, see what how much agreement we can get. Well, I like the idea of up to seven members. And I would support miss bats notion of a $3,000 stipend, but I would add to that, that the members should be compensated for time spent in required trainings, because I think they'll be quite a bit of that at the beginning. And, you know, maybe there should be an opportunity to be reimbursed for transportation expenses as well. We could decide whether we want that in addition to the stipend or not. With regard to the investigations. I think we can forbid the police department to do their own internal investigations. I mean, I think they will. They'll do whatever they do. And my thought was, what I was imagining as a situation in which the board had several things coming to it. And one of them had clear racial issues involved. And another one, you know, maybe two white college students were in a fight and one of them complained that the officer took sides to between them and breaking up the fight. And on the board, I would think, you know, let the police department investigate that one see what they think bring us a report and we can decide, you know, whether we think it's adequate or whether we think of further investigation or something needs to go on. And the board could put its energy and focus on the one that has implications for the BIPOC community and the potential of, you know, biased policing and, and all of that. I just didn't want to require the board to have to get involved in everything if there were some that didn't seem particularly relevant. But I'd always want them to have oversight of it. I think the board does and how much investigators do I think we could talk about what what language is there but I'm certainly support having in. I think the board should hear from the complaint and first and should hear from the officer but I, if beyond that I think the more we can have professional investigators investigate the better. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones. Miss Pat. So, um, actually, I think Miss Deborah for raising the investigation thing. Practically, realistically, there's nothing the oversight board can do to stop internal investigation. However, I don't think we should put it in here, but they, you know, they will still do what they want to do, like Mr Ross stated. Secondly, I feel uncomfortable for the board, the oversight board to be conducting investigation as an employer is time consuming. I mean I know that's, you know, part of what this that's why I keep asking what is the charge, you know, what are we going to put out for the charge of the oversight board. I think we should have external investigators hired as consultants to investigate complaints and then presented to the board, because if we going to be having oversight board members to be investigating complaints is something that needs to be done. Well, it's time consuming and in my follow lawsuits and everything. So I will rather have the time budget money for external investigators to investigate some complicated issues but if it's something that is like won't take much time. Maybe the board can look into it. It's what I'm saying. But internal investigation should not even be in a document at all. You know the police will do what they, the APD will do what they, what they do. I know the internal investigation has not been very efficient or effective or that's not, that's not, it's not transparent anyway, so. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Ferrara. Yeah, and I mean and that's my point, you know, I mean, I guess what we have to do is that we have to figure that out right, either we're going to mention it or we're not going to mention it. And if we're going to mention it then Mr. Mr. Vernon Jones we have to be very careful about how we mentioned it it can't be just kind of like well they're going to do whatever they're going to do and so if they have certain things that are not BIPOC related then let them do it or whatever I mean if they are going to do it, then they'd have to notify the board okay these are the things that we're investigating, then let the board have that decision whether they want to get involved or not it can't be up to them. You should understand so that means even if they're going to do it and we'd have to put that in this document. You know what I'm saying because if we don't put that in this document it's not going to happen. So that's why I'm being a stickler for this in terms of investigations because a lot of it is going to ride on that and, and, and, and we ever said this was absolutely right. Whatever investigations and whatever comes out of it right if you're feel going to make recommendations to discipline a police officer first and foremost and then, and, you know, and maybe possibly terminate them from their job or they could even be criminal implications. On the other end, that investigation needs to be solid solid to be able to overcome all types of challenges. That's why I'm saying I'm just like, I keep on telling you all this is very important. So, in terms of the internal investigations again what I say is, is just make sure that if you're going to allow the police to do their own investigations and the board is going to pick and choose what they're going to get involved in that's fine. I'm going to say that, you know what I'm saying, so that it's clear and not just kind of like while they're doing it and so when does the board get involved, you know, when how does the board know that, you know, this is something that was a fight that happened, whatever between two drunk people to white, you know, drunk people that had nothing to do with, with, with people of color. Hey, yeah, take it away. You know what I'm saying and how, how do, how does the board know when to get involved. I mean, we have to be very clear. I have those questions if I have those questions by reading this document. Others are going to have the same questions and they're going to double those questions. You see what I'm saying. So that's the thing we need to clear that up, either we're going to deal with it have internal investigations. You know, or not and if we're not, then we don't mention it if we are then we need to clarify that when the board gets involved. And then in terms of the investigations themselves that needs to be solid that needs to be by professionals. And that needs to make sure that it stands, whatever challenges and those challenges will come. I did my investigations, it was external agencies, state agencies, federal agencies, all sorts of agencies that have to look at my investigation and understand it. You know, from top to bottom, if they didn't understand it, it was going to be thrown out. You know, so, I mean, this is, this is serious business. So, but I'll stop there. Thank you, Ms. Farera. So I do agree with Ms. Deborah that there should be or Ms. Farera that there should be clarity around this. I, you know, from past experience will not pass experience, but I guess it would be good to know while Rob has a specific concentration on BIPOC community members does that mean it doesn't oversee anything else that's not race related. And then, because, you know, in all honesty, like there could just be two non BIPOC members who whatever reason get in a fight and then there's some kind of issue surrounding the police. And that investigation doesn't go as well so I don't know that, like that way to exclude something due to race because then that's kind of what we're trying to avoid doing right like it's all inclusive. But the other thing is to is, you know, coming from dealing with the complaints with the Human Rights Commission, I'll be the first to say that it seems very odd to have a town board or staff member doing complaints and having someone who's more neutral would perhaps be better to do the investigation, whatever the decision comes out of, you know, that could come out of Rob based off of the investigation but it seems like there's always a trust issue somewhere in there when you have a complaint against the town and then you have a town body standing investigating that complaint right like I think that's a barrier for the Human Rights Commission complaints. Right, is that people feel like it's just, you know, town people doing the investigation and therefore it's not seen through a neutral lens. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, thanks for all this this is helpful. I did not mean to imply that the resident oversight board wasn't going to deal with issues about white people I just wanted to give the board some power to decide its priorities. What I'm hearing you say, if I'm, I don't know but not everybody spoken of course but what I'm hearing is we should remove the option for the board to refer something to an internal investigation and to simply take that out. I mean, there's no Indian language requiring that the board be notified of all internal investigations and have the opportunity to choose to take them up and do their own investigation to take them up and review them. But that the APD would be required to notify the board of such of all those investigations. I mean, I mean, I don't know whether it's a lot or a few but Ms. Moisten. So I'm. So the complaint process starts with the board though right that's where in the individual files right. I just want to make sure I understand the process. Right so if they file. I don't even understand how it gets to the point where the PD is doing their own investigation. So the beginning is that. Well what I what I wrote is that whoever receives the complaint, because somebody might complain to the town manager that might complain to the cheat doesn't matter where they complain unless they put it in writing that they don't want the board involved. It must be given to the board. So I mean I just think that any complaint that came to the town manager's office I would refer them back to the board I think would be the structure of that. Yeah, right. So before it even falls in the PD's hands for them to do a private investigation. Well I'm just a little bit confused I'm sorry. So I'm trying to like, I'm trying to like see the process in it in in its entirety that's all. I'm just, I'm, I'm feeling like there's a couple of gaps that might need to be filled. But I, again, I'm not complaining about the work it's fabulous. Thank you miss moist and miss Pat, and then miss Ferrera. I was going to say that the current practice is you're supposed to fill out complain online on MS website, or you can contact the chief directly. So by complain. So what I want, what I would like to suggest is for the town to direct complaints that people file to the board are complaints nothing to be filtered. And then the vortex from there, sort it out, and, you know, deal with it if they need external investigator for more complicated one if there's something they think they can handle back, which you don't pick and choose whether this is by, you know, it's a type of person or homeless person and so on and so I think all complaints filed, even I have problem with people filing electronically because that you know we do have technological technology gap, you know that people who may not be able to access that. And what there will be other means for people to file complain, including calling to file complaint so it's something we need to figure out to so that there will be a variety of ways where people can write complain and mail, not to the police station that somewhere. Yeah. So if this can be directed to the oversight board. Yeah. This is what I'm taught. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. Thank you, Ms. Martin. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Farera. Yeah, and I agree with that too. I mean, you know, this is a new day and age and you have to use the technology and be able to allow people to report right you're making, you know, you're filing a report there. You're also in person and you know, however else you know it's all different mediums in terms of them being able to to make a report of our complaint. You know, but I think that again that that we need to be clear in terms of like what Ms. Morrison saying and and and again Mr. Vernon Jones nothing about your work because it's awesome is just to kind of we got to just clear up some of these things. And make sure that it flows really nicely so that people, you know, don't have questions when we present this with the document because we know there's going to be a gazillion questions anyway, even when it's streamlined, never mind, you know, so it's kind of like, you know, it goes to the board so so that is a good question if everything and you have put it in this document that unless someone doesn't want it to go to the board right. So everything should go directly to the board so that the board can review and what I mean by the only thing that I can think about if someone doesn't want to go to the board is maybe that, you know, maybe the person knows the board man, you know a certain board member has a conflict with them or doesn't like them or doesn't whatever feel comfortable. We have to, we have to take that into consideration that can happen. Right. So, if we can't force everyone to go to the board they might feel comfortable going elsewhere and we have to allow for that. But I'm saying but if someone doesn't state that on their complaint, then it's to go, you know, to the board. So if it's going to the board, then how is it getting then delineated right to, you know, how how is it then that the police chief is going to be doing an internal investigation on it, you know, that would be the only way that that would happen will be if the board said okay here police she's a complaint, go do the internal investigation. And that's why for me, I'm kind of like, I don't think we, we shouldn't be doing that it's kind of like it comes to the board. The board has its investigators, and then it gets, you know, it gets looked into or whatever, you know, and, and then a decision gets made in regards to it. So that would kind of take out that that option of the police needing to do these internal investigations or going off on their own. Now they would have that they would have that potential or the opportunity let's say again like I said if someone says, I don't want it to go to the police chief because I have some type of conflict. I don't like the, you know, this board or I don't whatever, then it would go to the police chief or whatever the their processes over there. And then they will do their investigation and, and, and go from there but everything else, unless someone says I don't want to go to the board, if you go to the board and then they should handle it within, within the process that we stay here. Thank you miss Farera. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And just the logistics of like this form can be routed to the staff liaison. I mean, it's like for the human rights commission complaints that form gets automatically routed to me, and then I move forward with that. So the logistics piece of them getting it is, is easy, but what I will say from receiving human rights commission complaints is a the majority of them has been lately a lack of internet access. So I'm completing the form for the individual over the phone, and then they have to come in to sign it. Right, or they're here and I'm typing in the information and then they sign it. So I just, I'm trying to, you know, I don't know if the on so I don't necessarily think for a complaint like this at the online form is the best way to go but, you know, more of talking to a person so if it can be set up somehow so that people go to the board. And I don't know if you want to do that during a meeting so I guess that's something that needs to be thought out to. Right, because you don't want to run into the same problems that the HRC runs into where they're doing it during a public meeting. Thank you, Mr. Winston. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I think it's really important that confidentiality. And that's why I wrote in the possibility of complaints appearing before the board over zoom. Because no one until the board was an executive session no one would need that person wouldn't need to be anywhere near the meeting. I also envision that the board might call meetings and announce in the agenda that the only thing on the agenda is a vote to go into executive session. And I would love to see that. And ideally I would love to see the board meet some place where there's a front and a back entrance and the press is at one door and the person who's coming to appear before the board can can come early and sit and read a book in a back room and then enter so that it's completely confidential that they even appeared before the board. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones. You know, sorry. Yes, go ahead, Mr. So some of the issues that is coming up that's why I was asking the question, are we going to have like a separate document for the charge for the oversight board. So, for example, like the issue of, you know, staff liaison. Who would, you know, what would, what would be that person because I don't want it to be a police officer to be the staff liaison. So do we want to think about the press director or the director. Something for us to think about. For example. Thank you miss pack. And yes, miss my son. I'm so sorry just to quickly. So and I just, this goes back to I think what Miss Pat was saying earlier. So, like the human rights commission has a charge but then it has a mission statement. And so this document that we have currently once it's in its final form can be that actual mission statement and then have a separate charge. We kind of talked about the clarity of the, of the document. So I, I mean, I kind of look at it in that perspective where there's the charge, and then we can also use this document as the mission statement. Thank you miss moist and Mr. Vernon Jones. What about this idea of the staff liaison. Is it appropriate to say it's the DEI director or there does it. Yeah, I think that that's pretty much where that's going to fall that way. Yeah. Let's write that right in now. Okay. I mean, what what I've heard tonight it will, I'll go back and redirect this based on, you know, what I've, what I've heard I think you've got a lot of good ideas here. Do we need to talk more about the size of the stipend or the size of the board. Yes, so I was going to suggest that we circle back to the membership and see if we can try to come to an agreement on how we would like to either what number we would like to pick or how we would like to word it for the membership of the resident oversight board. I had. Yes, Miss Pat. So I propose up to seven members, minimum of five members. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I support Miss Pat's recommendation there. Miss Ferrara. Yeah, I'm good with that. But I still think that we should kind of say how many, you know, by park and all of that, like we were thinking. Yeah. So we'll just come up with a percentage. So if only if it's like five member. So at least 60% will be by park or 80. What do people think we come up with number 6080% of the board. Miss moison. I'm just a little curious about how that plays out. If you have up to seven and you have five people and 60% and then. So, so right so three and two so do we just do they just stop and say we're not going to do the seven then it should just be a board of five does that makes you understand what I'm saying like, how do you how do you keep control if it's five to seven with that ratio. I'm trying to reach a compromise my first preference to be honest with you a seven. But, you know, given the nature of the board. I don't know if anybody will want to even so on the board. It's really by folks. So, rather than not, rather than not having up people like seven, like five by park and two white, you know, I will settle for five by five board members. To me it would be like four by public I will agree to three by park. Thank you miss fat miss moiston. And also, you know, like the human rights commission at one point was a seven member board but we were consistently having problems keeping a quorum so we had that number change to nine. Oh, right so you can. So it can the board itself can say you know we need to extend out from five to seven. And that way they know exactly what that ratio needs to be. If that makes sense. So if we write in the charge five at any time that the board feels like they need to, you know, have additional members added they can do that. Thank you miss moiston. So I'm also I'm I'm in agreement with miss Pat and I, I like the language of up to seven but with the concerns that miss moiston brought up I don't know in what way we would be able to figure that out unless we said something like only odd numbers but then that would be five or seven and they just can't do a six member board. But my concern also is that we would have issues finding membership and retaining membership when we're also creating a standing committee and that there will also be the creation of a reparations board or committee, and that we'll all be competing for members for people who are interested in participating in something like this. And so I do have concerns about that, in terms of being able to find and maintain a seven member board with majority BIPOC. But ideally, seven would be better, I just don't know if that's going to be possible. And so I don't know how we can sort of change the language to indicate that miss Pat. And also, the way the Town Council have treated CSWG, people will have to like think very hard to join other boards in, in the, in the town. So membership is a concern but just to let people already know this, the reparation group is ad hoc committee is a temporary thing that the town manager is trying to put together and and then they'll disband, I think. It's very temporary like CSWG, but in, in any case, it still will be difficult to recruit people to oversight board or any of the board in town, because of the way we've been treated. Thank you miss Pat. Miss Ellen. So I think in an ideal world I would want seven people, but one thing that I keep hearing come up is like the stipend the stipend the stipend. So I feel like if we have five people it'll give us a better chance to pay members at least 3,000 as Miss Pat and others agreed with. Thank you miss Ellen. This way I'm not sure if we would, if we want to figure out how to manipulate the language so that it can be an up to seven member board or if we would all like to decide to go with five as the recommendation. Mr. Vernon Jones. I think we could, I mean based on things that have been said I wonder if we could go for five, but right in the authority of the board to expand itself to seven, or to request appointments to go to seven. And I would say up to seven, if you don't want to go to nine. Yeah, right. Is everyone in agreement with that suggestion. Well, it's challenging, even if we have five, and one by park, you know, didn't show up one of the meetings and we have two white to two by park to, to make a vote, how would that work out. I'm okay with five, as long as is for by park and one way. Thank you miss Pat Mr Vernon Jones. What I proposed and wrote in here was that if we were at a five member board that the BIPOC members would always get three votes, even if they're only two of them, even if it was only one BIPOC member, they get all three votes. It maintains voting power in the hands of a BIPOC majority regardless of a vacancy or in the, you know, in the board. How does that work I don't understand. So, if one of the meetings we have four member. There's a forum that is a vote comes up, and we have two by park and two white, how would the three, three votes, always for by park, if one person is absent that day. Yes, it's never any jobs. Yeah, I didn't write it for board absences I wrote it for board vacancies vacancies, but with a vacancy. You know, if there was, if it's a five person board and three by park slots, at least three, I mean it could be more, it could be more, but at least three. And there were two white and two by park members, each white member would get one vote, and each by park members vote would count as one and a half. Oh, we have a possible. I wrote it. I don't see why it can't happen. That's creative. I've never heard about that before. Hey, we need people with legal background. What do you think Deborah, Alicia and Brianna respond. I mean, I think, I think that's a great idea. And I mean, like you said, we can write it in there but now whether people are going to, whether they want to vote that in. I'm not sure. I mean, you know, that's, yeah, you're gonna have to sell it. And I don't know, I see that as not happening. I think that that can happen, but I, I would wonder what if the two BIPOC community members aren't in agreement of what happens. Exactly. Each of them still gets one and a half votes. And then you total the votes and then it's like three and a half versus one and a half. Yeah. Isn't America one vote per person. Isn't that what we're about. I love that I'm, you know, I'm laughing. I thought it's a great idea. I mean, my concern is there's been some history of leaving vacancies in existing boards. And I think people understand that that has been manipulated sometimes in this town. And this is just a, an insistence that that not be allowed to dilute the BIPOC power on this board, because the problem we're trying to solve, particularly in terms of building confidence in the BIPOC community cannot be solved in a majority, if the whites have the majority of the board. And I think we just need to keep saying that clearly and this is how this is a way to, I mean, if they, I think this will incentivize people to keep the board full and not leave BIPOC vacancies. But it, it, it eliminates the danger of that manipulation. Yes, Miss Pat. I would like to suggest we'll do the five member with four BIPOC and one white or seven with five BIPOC. Just in case like if people disagree with one and half vote, which I think it's going to be highly controversial. It will create a lot of distraction. I kind of like the idea I think is very creative that knowing what Ames Town is. Yeah. That would be one battle I wouldn't want to take on. The other battles with this that was known. I don't know a battle with fighting. I just think we need to like figure out just kind of what the majority, you know, making sure it's majority BIPOC and all this. I think that's my opinion, but obviously I'll go with the will of the group. But that's what I would say. Thank you, Miss for Mr Vernon Jones. I, you know, I don't know how we'll go. I think trying to sell for BIPOC out of five member board is going to be a harder sell. So let's do seven. Can we do seven that has all the other problems we we talked about. What if we recommend like for BIPOC, but two of them to be specifically black residents. Because BIPOC includes other identities. That's good. I'm in agreement of that. Me too. At least four out of five BIPOC, at least to black. Is that what we're saying. Yeah. Let's let's write it that way and see what happens when we start negotiating with the police chief and town manager and everybody but let's do it. Okay. So let's come up with our backup. If they, if they will prefer to have to wait. That but it has to be seven member. So let's, you know, we're not going to write it now that when we're negotiating with the, with the police chief and the town manager. If they feel that they want more than one white person on the board, then let's push it for, you know, our alternative. Suggestion will be seven board member with five BIPOC at least three black people, right. When there be three black people or two black people. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it. Okay. Yeah, I don't know that if you guys say three quarters, BIPOC community members that you'll get a lot of kickback from that I think that that's what they're, what's anticipated out of the resident advisor, the oversight board is that it is the majority is BIPOC and it would work in the same way that, you know, Paul created when he created the charge for CSWG was very adamant that it's three quarters BIPOC. Like I don't think that that's an issue that you'll have to worry about as much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And so with that, I'm hoping we can then revisit. We only have, we have 20 some minutes left, 26, if we can revisit the stipends. So I heard earlier that there was mentioned of a $3,000 stipend for the resident oversight board members, and the possibility of reimbursement for transportation. Ms. Farera. I would just say, you know, 3000 plus conversation for training, but I don't know about transportation. Basically it's like we're already paying the 3000. I think we're going to do a stipend. I just do the stipend and brush for training because they're going to have to do a lot of training. But I don't know about transportation. Okay. And in terms of the compensation for training, how do you all, how would you all like that to be structured. Miss Ellen. Maybe we could do it hourly. Okay. So that one, I'm a little concerned that you might get some kickback and I think it's probably would be easier to get transportation. If there was somewhere that the resident oversight board members were going. But my guess is that training would happen during their meetings. No. Are you talking about training happening outside of the meeting or not? I guess my thought, and I guess Mr. Vernon Jones, you have to clarify, I guess my thought is that they're going to have to do a lot of training in the beginning, even before they stop doing their work. So are we saying, so if we're saying that, okay, the 3000 will cover the time for them to do training. Then I don't know. I mean, I guess we just have to think about whether 3000 is enough. Thank you, Ms. Farera. Mr. Vernon Jones. I don't know, you know, what's enough. I do know that the NACOL, you know, the national organization doesn't specify a number of hours of training because it says conditions are very different in different towns. The Cedar Rapids specifies 30 hours for new board members and maybe 10 a year for, you know, in your second and third years of your term. And I would assume some of that would be in their meetings, but some of it might be attending, you know, there are a whole lot of webinars and things that NACOL offers. There may be required attendance at, you know, training sessions that include people besides just the Amherst board. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I guess I'm I also am unsure about how the trainings would work, because I guess I was also under the impression that they would need initial training before they would be able to participate on the resident oversight board. I would assume that they would need them to be able to be compensated for that training that would need to happen before. And then I assume that there might also be continuous training or some other things that may have to happen down the line, and that those that they would be compensated for those as well. I just don't, I didn't consider that they might happen during meeting times. Just thinking out loud, I'm thinking like they're probably going to have to have some sort of training to understand further the APDs like organizational and oversight structures. If we had consultants to help us with this work, we would have a comprehensive report to give them, but I feel like because we're not, we haven't yet received those consultants and we don't like there's so many processes that they have to learn before they just jump right into it. I feel like that's what's going to take some time before they can be investigating anything or looking at complaints. Yeah, and I think that I'm looking at it as the group that is appointed. Right. Their first steps are to be trained because not only do they need to be trained. And that is that is that's when they get together I mean we would have to post meetings for their trainings, honestly. So, and I just don't want it to be forgotten that I feel like one of the things that was a barrier for CSWG was the lack of knowledge of how local government actually works and how it is the way that it worked then might not be relevant to the way that it should be working now. And so I feel like they also need to be trained on how the budget works, like a thorough like training on how the budget works and the different policies so there's multiple multiple different things that this group needs to be trained on. And I just assumed that once the group is formed. The training starts then and that is also part of their meeting they don't investigate anything until after they I'm sorry I'm a clicker until they go through the rest of them until they've been trained right. I don't know if that made sense. Thank you miss moiston. I'm unsure. I'm unsure about that and miss Pat. In a sense you asked about, and how should the structure of the stipend be. I mean, the time manager will decide whether they want to do every other week as they're doing with us. You know, whatever. So, we're not going to micro manage how you know he's going to pay, you know, give people stipend if you know, I don't know if you know he will be open to paying people. We're going to have a regular amount at the same time or every other week, or every month. I don't know. Thank you miss that a mess for era. Yeah, I mean I just think again and I don't know if we have to really decide right now because we only have a little bit of time and we haven't talked about standing committee, but I think that could be something that we could think about. In terms of the stipend because since Mr Vernon Jones so has to kind of like go back and do a redraft, we can think about that and then then come up with that because my thing would be more so to say okay, this is how much we think it was, you know, some, you know, if you serve on this, you would deserve to get paid in terms of stipend because it includes training includes transportation includes that you know then we break it down. And how much money, they should receive for the stipend and why right because they have to do 30 hours of training because I have to do business. I think that would be better than to kind of try to piecemeal it because I think that becomes more difficult for the town to in terms of them having their budget and so on so forth, you know, I think that's how we should go about it and right now I'm not sure 3000 will cover everything that we need them to do during that time period. Thank you. Yeah, so should we table the stipend the next week or are we good with pre K for everything. I say table it till next week. I want more I want more thought on it. Okay. Yeah, I'm okay with tabling that till next week to give everyone a chance to think about that more I know I think I also would like more time to think about that. We only have about a little bit less than 15 minutes left. So if everyone's okay with moving into the standing committee, the decision as to the name of the standing committee. We have a couple of names proposed miss moisten I don't know if it's possible that you can put them on the screen. I thought I was already screen sharing sorry. Can you see it now. Yes, thank you. So one of the proposals we've had from group members so far. I don't think we're limited to these if anybody has something else that they didn't get to suggest that they would like to suggest at this time. We are also open to that. But these are things to consider and I don't know if everybody had time to think about what they like would like the name of the standing committee to be Mr Vernon Jones. I don't feel strongly about this but I wondered about calling it a diversity equity inclusion and safety committee. Which one. I'm proposing putting all four things in the. It's not it's not one that's there diversity equity inclusion and safety. Can somebody type it in. I'll write it down. It's yeah this is a PDF I can't type that in. Oh you can. What did you say diversity, equity. And then safety. Okay, so we have five choices. Does anyone have any other prefer, have any preferences to any of the names listed here I really like. I mean these all have them in it but I like keeping the community safety aspect of it and adding some aspects of diversity and inclusion. I know there are a few that we have up here that have that sort of combination. I don't know how you also but I think I'm leaning towards one of those miss Owen. I really like the multicultural affairs because I think it's important that this group start with the intention to go forward with our BIPOC cultural center and also the youth empowerment center so if the multicultural is like in the title. I think it's important that the social justice group has those recommendations so they don't get lost. So I really like that one and I also like the diversity equity inclusion and safety that Mr Vernon Jones proposed. Thank you miss Ellen. Miss moiston. Not that I have a voting opinion but the social justice one too though also makes it seem a lot more inclusive in regards to the different. And I do as well, just because social justice is combines, like at least in my mind, all of it right so it includes DEI it includes homelessness it includes whatever the cases, you know, it includes everything. When you do social justice low income, so forth and so forth. Thank you miss moiston miss Pat. I also agree with miss moiston and also Brianna, because I searched internet like randomly and some communities who are doing DEI stuff. They're still using social justice. It's almost like plastic, like it doesn't fade when you mentioned social justice people know exactly what you're talking about is very inclusive. I'm feeling that the DEI thing was like a phase will come and go. I could be wrong. But you know the DEI and safety, it will be good to include community safety. I don't know that. Thank you miss Pat, Mr Vernon Jones. I think Jennifer is convinced me I would go with social justice and community safety. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones. Yeah, I mean in 20 years social justice will not go away. I mean you go online. There's so much stuff, you know, social justice, social justice, I think, yeah. Let's table this. I'm good with the social justice and community safety too. And I was just doing with, you know, community safety and social justice but I'm good with social justice community safety. I like that. Maybe I'll put it around. Yeah. Because this is all about safety. Yeah, I like that. Community safety and social justice. Is that what you say. Yeah, like that. What do people think. No. No, I think that's good. Yeah, I was just thinking in terms of keeping, you know, like, since this is kind of a spin off of CSWG and safety, a working group. I'm just trying to put that first and then so I like that. Mr Vernon Jones. We just check whether Darius has some input on this. Yes. Um, yeah, I've been in an agreement with like, with what miss Pat was that had to say about like the social justice thing and then going back to this. Like I just been in agreement, like mostly everything. Thank you Mr cage. I also just want to chime in that I. I like Ms Ferrera suggestion because I also am in agreement with miss Pat in terms of social justice and like miss moisten reminded us that that is also really inclusive and includes a lot of topics that we would like to touch on, which all is more secure and makes a community more safer. So it is community safety, which is what we are. So I like Deborah's suggestion and switching them. And I would be willing to go with that one. What do you think Brianna. I'm in agreement. So do we take a vote. I think we have a decision. Okay. Thank you guys. That was quick. Awesome. We do only have 10 minutes left and the last. Well, we have subgroup check in I'm hoping we might be able to table that until next week. We don't have enough time to go through that and I'm sure people are still working on things. But if we could have the last 10 minutes dedicated to press implementation follow up. I think that would be important information to share with you all, because miss Pat and I were able to meet with the implementation team this morning. And so I would like to just open the floor at this time for us to share what the meeting entailed. And if it's okay miss Pat, I will let you start off. Thank you. Thank you. I just say one thing on the standing committee before we move on to this, just if you all saw that I did send some kind of edits to the standing committee kind of charge. I don't know if you all saw that. So I just want to make sure. I got it. Yeah. Thank you miss for. Miss Pat, you got her edits as well. Did you receive Ms. Yes, I did. Thank you. Thank you very much. Want me to go. Yes, sorry, go ahead miss Pat. Thank you. Okay. So people know, we are not scheduled didn't allow her to attend the press implementation meeting very quickly. I will say my observation, the meeting was very productive. I felt that after we voiced concern myself regarding the grant thing. Mary Beth was able to follow up with the group that I suggested in Springfield, and he has she has been in touch with them and will send them the grant application for them to review. So, um, I'm just mindful of time. So if anybody else wants to chime in, I, you know, I thought it was a productive meeting we had the chief of police at the meeting miss moistin the ambassador supervisor. Kat, did I say her name correctly. Yeah, yeah, so I'll shut up just because of time. Thank you miss Pat miss moistin and then miss Owen. Yeah, just quickly I just wanted to give the members of CSWG a little bit of background on the grant because I'm not sure if everybody's aware of the grant and the process so there is an opportunity for a grant for $400,000 that comes over a period of years. So if you work with a social agent from Department of Health, so it is an agreement that you work with another social service agency, not for crest necessarily or crest employees but for follow up so if someone goes is admitted to the hospital and they get out but there are additional services that crest can't provide that that group can that the other the social agency can provide those services and the follow up that is needed. And so I just wanted to give a little quick background about that grant. Thank you. Thank you miss moison. Sorry, you were muted miss moison so I wasn't sure if you were still talking to us. I shut my screen off I was trying to mute myself, I shut the screen. Okay. Yep. And so with the last seven minutes I just wanted to add to that. We talked about the Harvard Kennedy Government Performance Lab which was the funding that we are the technical assistance which we had previously applied for but we did not qualify for that assistance. However, they did invite us to be a part of the conversation with other communities who are either starting or have already embarked on doing the same kind of work. And I think there are like some 30 some communities involved in that collaboration. And I think that's from the implementation meeting where that we're still working on partnering with leap we have not yet executed a contract but it is in negotiation and we're hoping that that will be finalized within the next week or so and that leap will give us a timeline as to when they expect to have the data available to us. And the majority of the rest of the conversation was in regards to the other grant from the Department of Public Health which miss moison just spoke about which required a partnership with a local social service agency and 50% of any sums awarded would also go to that social service agency and that would be a 400 K award and we're hoping to just look and see if we can compile BIPOC social service agencies to avoid that partnership being like with service net CSO or CHD but that's where we are right now. And the due date for that grant application is August 4 so next week. So, I don't know if you're, you know about the update, Alicia. I did, I was able to get to connect Medibeth to two organizations that are led by BIPOC professionals in Springfield. She has connected with them, because the one that a town has identified is white led organization locally and we objected to that. So, we want to catch up on your email. Thank you, Miss. Miss Owen. And at the implementation meeting one thing that I've been thinking about, didn't Senator Cumberford give the town $90,000 for crest like way back in, I want to say, February or in that time period or was that my head. If nobody knows I can follow up when Alicia and I meet with Mr. Backelman but I thought that 90,000 was thrown around for something. Thank you, Mr. Owen. Mr. Vernon Jones. I know that she put it in the Senate budget proposal. And I assume that, you know that proposal is has now passed and I assume it's in there, but I can't confirm that. I will follow up when I'm Alicia and I meet with Mr. Backelman. Because I was wondering where that went. Thank you. So the last thing that we talked about was, we raised myself, Alicia and myself, we raised the fact that community members, some BIPOC folks are interested in participating in the planning and implementation of crest program. And so Miss Marston, if you want to elaborate on that, that is plan to do something in the future. So, and in the, some of it has to be in the more immediate future so I don't know that those meetings will be open to the public at when, when the implementation team meets itself. But I will say that there was, you know, I think a great thing way to still keep to get the community voices in is to have the open forms of possible so if we had like four of them, one at the beginning to check in to see what the BIPOC community is looking for, you know, we have an idea, but to hear it from them right is helpful. And then you have one kind of in the middle for like a touch base informational and to get more feedback from the community. And then once we're ready to launch, then that's another one and then a follow up an additional follow up open forum. I don't, I don't know that we'll be able to have that meeting I asked about if that could be open to the public and I don't think that's going to happen. But we can at least get the voices and the concerns and I feel like if the community can see their voices heard through the decisions that are being made to implement crest and that will be the reassuring piece of it that's what we're looking for at the end. We also talked about moving the meeting so that it will accommodate Briana's schedule. And so I know we have to get off but I'm not here next week and so I just need to be able to chat with Alicia and Briana quickly about when a good, what would be what is a good time to have these meetings. Are we meeting next week for the implementation. I'll be back on Thursday, but so if Thursday is going to be the day then that's fine we just need to know like we have to change the time obviously because that time doesn't work for Brianna. And if Thursday doesn't work for Briana that's good too. I mean, my question was, would we be, I meant, would we be meeting weekly because I thought it was biweekly. Oh, I think that it's weekly and we went biweekly because we didn't, Paul had been on vacation or something and we didn't really have any updated information at that point. So I'm going to say that group would probably strive for weekly but it could be biweekly depending on what's going on and then other times it could be that there's so much going on that it has to be weekly. Okay. And I can do next Thursday morning I just couldn't this Thursday morning I had to be in Boston. So we're Thursday mornings okay typically. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So before we get off, I would like to request that we take one week off next month. Like, maybe assign ourself research or work to do just to catch up there's so much reading there's so much that will probably need a week off. I am not taking any day off from this meeting. So, and that's the way I operate I get obsessed about something I like to say it through. So I am strongly suggesting that we take one week off any week in August, please, so that we can re energize. I mean, we don't have any everybody in the meeting tonight. And people are getting exhausted. I just want to spill it out. I think it would take a week, one week off it will be nice. Okay. I like that idea and I would propose we take the 19th off. I'll be at the beach and I rather not be, you know, and CSWG meeting. Yeah, from the beach. So that works perfect for me. Okay. Okay, that works for me also. Wow. Okay, great. But we will all be here. However, next Thursday at 530. Correct. Yes, and the agenda is exactly the same. So that works. Okay, it's already been posted. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. So unless there's anything else anyone wanted to discuss as a topic, not anticipated within 24 hours of the meeting. I would like to call this meeting to adjourn so that we can attend the League of Women Voters event. Do people have. Link to that. I know. Does someone need the link. I think I need the link. I need the link. Okay. I'll send it right now. I'm a little bit tired. I need to get to work. Work I got to do, so. It looked tired. I still have more work to do. So that's why I like to get on. Tell me about it. I just am so excited when we will be meeting on the 19th. You see how excited I am. I'm exhausted. I am. So we're leaving, right? Are we done? Thank you all for coming tonight. Bye. Bye.