 Don't be so quick to discredit bro science. Oftentimes it's rooted in truth. The issue is they just don't know how to explain it properly. Let's go, bro. Let's go. You know what I read the other day, that blew my mind. Yes. So, and we can get into other bro science that are you just hyping this up or are you really weird? Okay. So this is something I heard bodybuilders say that I would laugh and scoff at. So I'm going to, I'm going to say, say it and I guarantee you'll have the same reaction, right? That pre-contest eating only fish as your source of protein, things the skin. We have to have you heard that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Things the skin. Tilapias was always the one of choice. Yeah. And so you're like, oh, come on. That's so stupid bro science. We're okay. Trip off this. Oh wow. So there's different types of collagen protein. There's type one, type two, type three and type four. If you only eat fish as your source of protein, you're only getting type one chicken and beef have type two and three eggs have type four type two, three and four. If you don't get enough of those, the, the collagen matrix in under the skin, your tendons, your ligaments actually slowly starts to break down. So you indeed get thinner skin. Now this is not healthy. You can increase your risk of injury because your joints and tendons and ligaments aren't as strong, but the look that the bodybuilders have been describing, that's real. So is that all just to kind of get the veins to pop more and all that kind of stuff? You want your skin to look like paper, you know? You want to look as lean, like lean and then it's translucent. Well, yeah, the leaner or the thinner your skin looks, the more vascularity, the more striation you're going to see in the muscle. And so, and of course in a competition of trying to show off your leanness, that's great. So now if you eat jellyfish, do you become translucent? No, no. I know. But I read that as it blew my mind because that's one thing I heard bodybuilders say that I'd completely, completely disparate it. That's, that's crazy. Yeah. You know, and I remember when I actually used to talk about that. So my counter argument to be like, that's so full of shit. It's not true. What it is, is that tilapia is so low calorie. Yes. They switch over to that. And so they just get leaner. And so they could have done that with ground turkey or anything else like that. But wow. Isn't that wild? Yes. So, so, you know why bro science, so bro science or bodybuilding, you know, whatever, wisdom, oftentimes there's some truth in what they say. The challenge or the problem is that the way they explain it many times makes it stupid. Many times it's like that. Actually, there's a, there's a, I mean, this happens a lot. This is again, this is my, my problem I have with like the hardcore science community is just like, you know, I mean, you think of like Eastern medicine and stuff like that too, right? So the terminology that they've used to try and explain it, they know something's there. They've been, they've been watching it for in the Eastern medicine time, hundreds or thousands of years. It's been passed on. So obviously there's something there. This balances your chi. Right. But how they communicate it and stuff like that. I remember, I remember this one, Katrina and I first started dating and, you know, she, she comes from that, she's a massage therapy background and she would say things to me. And I would just kind of like chuckle on her brother. And she's like, what? Like, she's like, absolutely. This is what I'm like. You store emotions in your hips. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, I'd kind of scoff at like the, the explanation, but you know, as time has come on, gone on, we've, we've start to accumulate more and more science to support what they're saying. Maybe not how they say it, but what they're saying is, it becomes more and more true as the science starts to unfold. And I just, that's why I'm like so careful when you, do you knock on some, somebody that has that provides info like that? I had a huge discussion with a surgeon that I trained years ago, because I had in my, in my old studio, I had an acupuncturist in there. And then I'd have, you know, clients. Well, I had a lot of at that time clients that were surgeons and doctors. So Western medicine, Eastern medicine. And one of my clients, this, this old school surgeon, who, you know, he first became a surgeon in the 60s. Like he was about to retire and those back then those old dogs were like kings. Like you were a surgeon in those times. Like what you said was like, like law and it was totally different. So he had this kind of, and I love him to death. He's a good friend of mine still, but he's this really cocky attitude. So he'd come in and I'd train him and the acupuncturist would walk in and have an appointment. He'd laugh, you know, that, you know, pseudo science he'd say or something like that. And so I'd be like, oh, come on, man. Like, you know, a lot of people see value. So anyway, we got in this discussion once and he goes, what is this like chi? Like, where's the evidence for chi? And I said, okay, well, let me ask you this as a surgeon. I said, what is referred pain? And he goes, oh, well, that's when something hurts in one place, but it means that there may be an issue somewhere else. Classically, left arm pain could mean that you're having a heart attack or heart pain. I said, and what do you think that's related to? He goes, well, your central nervous system. I said, well, what do you think the needles are doing? I said, it's affecting the CNS. And maybe they explained it through chi, but maybe what they're doing is working with the CNS to block pain or produce more endorphins or whatever. And I remember the look on his face. I was like, huh, that could kind of make sense. This is a lot of what happens in the bodybuilding space. For example, for a long time, they would say, fasted cardio gets you leaner. Wake up, don't eat anything, do cardio. Well, the reality is when all things are controlled, it doesn't accelerate fat loss more than cardio done later on. But the reason why it works for a lot of people is it's more activity. They eat later in the day. They end up eating less calories. So they end up waking up, doing cardio, waiting two hours before they eat. And it just tends to result in behaviors that reduce their caloric intake. You know what else is like this? Spiritual wisdom. And people, you have somebody who is like a staunch atheist or agnostic and because they don't want to believe in the big guy up in the sky or something like that, they just discredit this whole book that's been passed down for thousands of years that there's not tremendous value in it. Or because it's told through stories and parables or whatever that, oh, this isn't real. It's fake. It's a bedtime story. It's like, man, instead of completely discrediting that, maybe there's something of value there that has been passed down for a very long time for a very good reason. And has stood the test of time. That's right. Look, when somebody tells you something, when one person or 10 people tell you something, that's anecdote. Anecdote, can it be true and false? Yes, it could be either true or either false. When tens of thousands or millions of people over the course of long periods of time tell you something that's now called wisdom. It's different. Wisdom is not anecdote. So if a culture has been doing a practice for 1,000 years and we don't have any studies to support it, but they say doing this does this, like eating this, I forgot what the name of them, these medjool dates helps, medjool dates have been used to help promote healthy labor and induce labor and women for thousands of years, for thousands of years. And people laughed at it. And then they did studies and said, oh, look, these dates do ripen the cervix and help reduce the risk of C-section. So anecdote over long periods of time by millions of people that stand the test of time. It's no longer, in my opinion, the category of anecdote is now in the category of wisdom. And maybe the way they explain it isn't right, but it works. And it's been observed to work for a long time. So bodybuilding is phenomenal for that because bodybuilding has existed now for 100 years and lots of people have done it. And you hear lots of quote, unquote bodybuilding wisdom and the way they explain it might be wrong, but there's something to what they're saying, especially if it's still something that bodybuilders continue to find value in, 50, 60 years later. Yeah, we just need better interpreters. I think better people in this space to explain it on a different level. Another good one is adrenal fatigue. Everybody made fun of adrenal fatigue. Well, now they call it HPA axis dysfunction. Now, the way they explained it before was your adrenals get fatigued and they get exhausted. Well, this happened to even the functional space with like the vibrating plates. And I've always thought it was like a bunch of horseshit, but then it's like, you realize that what that does is the central nervous system actually allows your body to then, you know, it interrupts that signal and those governings that are in place to actually allow you now to drop in, arrange the motion you weren't able to achieve. And, you know, there's all kinds of other benefits to it in terms of like, you know, stimulating the muscles that way. But like, it just wasn't explained to me very well. Are you guys watching the response to cold plunging and infrared and stuff like that right now? No, is there like a big counter movement? Yeah, there's a big counter movement right now. So now if I post something, it's so funny because we've been talking about this for so long now, but now I did a post yesterday of me getting ready to do the plunge and I was doing the red light. And like now I get at least a couple of people that almost always, oh, the science that's debunked or... It's because it's actually gaining market share now, I think. It is, isn't that funny? It was like something that, you know, again, like when you think about like cold plunging and so on, that these are some things that have been in practices. Go disprove Wim Hof, good luck. Yeah, no. No, I just, and again, they'll try and point to a study that is measuring something very basic and simple in a short period of time. And it can get oversold once something becomes marketable and sold. Then they'll sell fasting, for example, as the greatest way to burn body fat and it's different than cutting calories. Listen, you'll never hear one of us on the show talk about that replacing exercise, good nutrition, good sleep, good relationship. I mean, when you look at the hierarchy of things to do and focus on to move the needle in your journey of health, you'll never hear us say that this, Trump said, but... Cold plunging gets you jacked. Yeah, to think that it doesn't come with tremendous benefits is hilarious to me now and it's becoming kind of this movement to counter it. You know what it is. First off, because we've been doing this for so long, exercise, sleep, diet, you know, stress, lifestyle, those things are just there. There's nothing that'll trump those. I always find it cool when something else can cause benefits that isn't in that category. Like there's a non-dietary intervention and non-exercise intervention, a non-improve your sleep intervention, right? That actually moves the needle to a point where we can measure it for things like recovery, muscle growth, performance, that kind of stuff. I find that fascinating and I'm gonna talk about it. Well, I find it also fascinating too when you see, because when we talk about things like fasting or I talk about cold plunge, it's actually the benefits that I talk about are less to do with the benefits that it's being sold as a lot of times. So that's when I get interested is like, oh, wow, there's this thing that's in some sort of an intervention or outside the big rocks and all that has shown value towards building muscle or losing body fat or overall health. And then it also has these other positive benefits. That's when I get excited. Then I'm like, oh, this is cool. This is like a small four-minute practice. I can add three times a week into my life and it has multiple different benefits that are, I mean, to me, that's awesome. I feel like some of the biggest benefits of things at cold plunge are the immediate energy boost. It's literally like drinking a cup of coffee. It's amazing. So I don't know anything that can give me that kind of energy other than a stimulant. And the second thing that I could see the value in is it does, it can definitely improve your tolerance to cold. Just like the sauna. I'm gonna add to that, bro. Improves your tolerance to heat. I mean, the- And then immune system is best shown. Immune system, 100% for sure. The difference in that, I've seen a big difference. Also too, how you handle day to day normal stress. You know, I think we've talked about before. We haven't had a breathing expert on here, right? That's talked all about like breath work and stuff like that. I mean, whim off a little bit, right? No, no one else on there. We didn't go deep on that. No. But a lot of us don't even realize how we do this like shallow breathing all day long. That was the biggest benefit for me. Right. And you, in order to do that, you can't do that. And let me tell you, part of why it's so difficult for so many people is to get into the, to control deep breaths inside. And for somebody that's not super esoteric in terms of like being able to sit still and like, you know, have that meditative moment where it's like, I'm gonna breathe and I'm gonna get to this transcendent place. And you know, I can't, I can't like just like, ah, like I have to fight it. Like that, it forces me to actually get into that calmness and that place where I'm actually like, I'm faced with the fact that this is gonna completely smash me if I don't like succumb to it. And that is, talk about, I mean, and that's not something that everyone's touting the study for. Nobody's selling that. Yeah, no one's selling that. But what a tremendous value. If you recognize that already. They don't sell it because it's not fat loss muscle building. I know, right. But that's what's so funny to me is that there's always this like counter and then they're gonna attach it to some six week study and be like, oh look, when you actually compare that to, you know, eating this or you increase your protein by 10 grams and you'll get just as much of recovery benefits. And you try and throw it out for that one reason. Dude, you talk about people suffering from anxiety, depression and all these things going on mentally right now. Like this is a great like answer for people like me, specifically who just like bury a lot of those feelings and just push it down a brace. And like you feel like you can just like hit every obstacle with just like, you know, just bearing down. Like when that stops working with for you, what do you do? Yeah. You know, like this is like an answer. I remember when I first learned about like the importance of breathing because I know that what happens to you or how you feel will affect your breathing. So like if you get scared, you breathe differently than if you're relaxed. But also the way you breathe sends a signal to the brain and the body that tells you it's you can relax or you can get heightened. Okay, so it's a two way street. I remember when I first learned about belly breathing, I had this amazing wellness expert in my studio who I would see do, you know, do this with clients and I could see the clients being like, oh my God, this is so phenomenal, whatever. So I had her teach me. I went through it and I was like, wow, this is really remarkable. So then I did it on some clients and I was not prepared. I was not prepared for what would happen. The emotions. They cried. The first woman I had her later, she was all stressed out and she was, I was always trying to help her with that and say, hey, we're gonna try something different. We went into the front room that was kind of open but dark, so it was quiet. I laid her down and I had her practice belly breathing and then she started crying. And I was like, look it up, like looking for the other person, what do I do right now? And she said, oh my God, that was so relieving. Like I let out some emotions I didn't know I was storing. And then it happened again with another client. I was like, okay, this is crazy. This is why I think it's actually, the reason why it's gaining so much traction is, you know, of course there are the, you know, things get trendy and there's that, there is that percentage of that. But I mean, I wouldn't, I don't think you would move and get as popular as fast as if it wasn't making huge impacts in people's lives. Impacts to where they feel it and see it. It's like, I don't need to see here and argue studies with you, go do it. Go do it for a month and then report back to me and tell me you don't recognize it. And naturally, you know, the things that like, get the most resistance are the ones that are hard, right? Like compound lifts, like, you know, there's always going to be this like, excess of studies that all of a sudden pop up because it's like, you know, like, everybody's doing it sees massive value but the people that like don't want to do it because it's like, ah, it's hard, you know? Because like, why should I even do that, stupid? 100%. You know, that's actually, I think, I think Joe Rogan said, they think who's asked about his routine of, because he cold plunges every morning. And there is something too about the mental aspect of overcoming, like, every, okay. I'm consistently doing this. You never want to do it. I never wanted to, I'm yet to go like. It never gets easy. Yeah, it never gets, it's like, every time I do it, it's like, I have to like, convince myself. It's like, I go, and there's something to be said about starting your day off with something hard like that, that you have to overcome, that's difficult. And setting the tone for the day, because honestly, a lot of other decisions throughout the rest of my day are much easier decisions than that one. That one happens to be one of the harder decisions I have to make in the day. Get down to your underwear and jump in this freezing cold. Yeah, right, and stay there. Yeah, in the morning. Yeah, it's, and so, I mean, again, I mean, how do I measure that, that and explain that in a, through a study? It's really difficult to do that without just telling somebody, hey, go implement it into your life for a while and then report back and tell me if you've seen benefits from it, and I guarantee you will. All right, everybody, today's giveaway maps strong. This is a strong man-inspired workout program. Here's how you can win it. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Do all those things, and if we declare you the winner, we'll let you know in the comments section. Also, we've put together these three workout program bundles, each one, up to nine months of planned workouts, each one, $300 or more off. Huge promotion, if you wanna learn more or you're interested in signing up, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Do you guys think, because obviously the biggest market or the easiest way to sell a product or where you're gonna get a blockbuster is in the fat loss segment of our space, right? Fat loss is like, everybody knows. For sure. If you could show some fat loss or some benefit for fat loss, like that's the money, right? Yeah, easy path, always. But do you guys think that the anti-anxiety portion of our market is gonna start to become more lucrative because anxiety is such a big problem? I mean, I think what we're talking about right now is an example of that. I think that that's why it's, a part of why it's getting so much traction is I think so many people are affected by this like shallow breathing all day and high anxiety and stress. And the practice of doing this and learning to belly breathe and take deep breaths and calm yourself is proving to be of value to a lot of people. Even if you're not a big, I wanna build a ton of muscle or I wanna lose a bunch of body fat person, but most people today can connect to anxiety and stress. But you have to feel like there's probably a growing amount of people who are like, what can we do besides pharmaceuticals? What can we do besides chemically ingesting things to solve some of these mental problems, anxieties and stress and depression? And besides, even like in the exercise of course, there's gonna be stuff for that. But I think that there's growing interest in ways that you can do this something that you can kind of do that's not super crazy. I agree. My optimistic mind leans that way when I think about what just happened to us over the last two years that the one positive thing that may have come out of this is that more and more people are opening their eyes to like not waiting for the government or our pharmacy to come up with the next vaccine or drug and maybe they should start taking action themselves and find ways to do that. I mean, I would hope that that's what is happening. Yeah, I know that's my glimmer of hope that's still there. We might be hitting that soon because the percentage of people now that's on a pharmaceutical is high. I think if you look at all the entire adult population, maybe Doug, you can look this up, but it's probably 50%. If you look at the adult, what percentage of adults are on a pharmaceutical drug or prescription? You probably have to put an age. It's probably 50%. Above 30 or above 40. Just adults. Well, I mean, I bet that. Because that includes people who are 20. But if you go 30 and then that number is, then you go 40. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What did you say, Doug? 66% of the adult. And that's all adults you're saying. All adults. Okay, so try something like this. How many people above 40? Yeah, we're all 40, okay? How many above 40? Oh, I guarantee it's higher. The older you get. Oh, yeah, no, I know. What I'm curious about is how crazy. You know what the fastest growing segment, though, of the adult population when it comes to drug? Anti-aging? No, no, the fastest growing age group in terms of being on a pharmaceutical was a younger age group. Older people have been on drugs for a long time. Yeah, no, I know that. People that are 20. That's saying these are posture and pain. That's crazy. Like back pain, that's all. What did you say, Doug? So nearly seven in 10 adults aged 40 to 79 used at least one prescription drug in the past 30 days and around one in five used at least five prescription drugs. Whoa! 20, so close to 20% used five? Yeah. And 70% are on at least one that are 40 and above. So why? We may be at a point now or getting to it, I hope, where people who have been using anti-anxiety medication, anti-depressant medication, stimulants or whatever for long enough, that they're like, okay, this isn't what I thought it would be. Like, have you ever talked to some? So I have family members. Bro, you know how history's happening right now, right? 50 years from now, we will look back at this time in life when we introduced a lot of these drugs. And you know how stupid we're gonna think about ourselves? Unless they have better drugs. Well, I mean, yeah, you're right. Unless there's something that come out that actually shows. The robot bodies of that one. Unless they come out with a drug that actually shows a decrease in anxiety and stuff like that in the population. But if you look, if you're gonna go back and look at when, and I don't know the timeframe of exactly when these drugs were introduced, but the idea then is to reduce anxiety and depression and things like that. And yet the curve is still on this thing. And so like even your hardcore science nerds will look back and go like, well, that doesn't add up. Anything, you know what's funny? Anything lifestyle related that we treat with pharmaceuticals has continued to get worse. Anything lifestyle related. So look at, and I'm not, no. Is that true? Well, okay. I'm not talking about infections. Blood pressure. I'm not talking about disease, but look at heart disease. Look at, you know, cancer rates. Dementia, look at anxiety, depression. We have lots of drugs that, you know, quote unquote treat these things, but all the rates of all of those continues to grow. So does that mean that those medications don't work? Not necessarily. I think what it shows is what's causing those things, it keeps continuing to get worse and we're not looking at the root cause. Yeah, there's a root cause. So lifestyle factors affect all of those. If you don't change those lifestyles factors, then those drugs might extend your life a little bit, but they're obviously not gonna solve those problems. So I'm wondering if we're gonna get to the point where enough people have been on Xanax for long enough, where we'd be like, okay, I gotta figure out a better way to solve my anxiety. It worked at first, it was amazing, but now I'm dependent on it, I can't go off of it. That's the hardest part. Is that once you become dependent on it, it's going the other way. Even if you know better. Imagine if you know that. And you're getting adapted and you gotta take more. Imagine the money, I'm not gonna go down this, necessarily this road, but imagine some nefarious executives in a board meeting at a pharma company. They're like, all right, we got this medication now. Definitely gets rid of anxiety immediately. One of the problems is if you take it for more than 30 days in a row or six days in a row, you can't just go off because you'll get terrible, terrible side effects. So you're like, okay, well, so it kind of works, but then it's also addicting and then they can't go off. Like think of like the money in that. The money in that. Do you remember, I think Doug, I turned you on. I think you were the only one that actually watched that out of us and I forget the name of it, but there was, I think it was on Amazon that did this documentary on the relationship of the rehab centers with the pill. We all watched some of that. I mean, I watched the whole thing. I don't know if anyone else watched the whole thing. Yeah, I don't remember the name of it. Yeah, something. Was it like that? I don't know. Let me see if I can find it. No, we'll see if you can find it. I mean, it's worth the watch. If you have, I mean, because the. It was all these grants and money available and so people went. Like California provides a certain amount of grants towards people that are getting, and it's like this massive hustle to the point where they are setting these people up. I mean, the failure rate in those rehabs is above, I think, 80%. It's crazy with them. Body brokers. Body brokers. Yes, that's it. That is worth watching. Mind blowing to me. I mean, I have people in my family that have used rehab centers before so that completely shifted the way I think about something like that as a resource for somebody because how nasty these things are and how much they abuse the people. They changed too. They changed how you qualify someone for some of these medications now. Like, like. Oh, bro, it's like getting a marijuana. Oh, it's like that easy now. Dude, when I went, when I got my, my medical marijuana card back when you had to get back. It's laughable. I remember. Yeah, my knee hurts. And the doctor was like. Yeah. Because when you have. I'm like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, oh, you know, it's like you have headaches. I'm like, sometimes. Okay. Yeah. This is wild. Okay. Thanks. That's how it is. So I mean, it's like that on the outside too. Dude, I got to tell you guys, I had a young stupid moment, even I'm old and I shouldn't be so stupid the other day. So I was driving. Have you, do you guys ever get this? Like, you ever have in a moment where it taps into your 18 year old ego which kind of exists there a little bit. Of course. And it comes out. Especially driving. I shared that a while back where it raced the kid. You know what I'm saying? Bro, so I just did that. So I was, I was driving. I was on my way here. I'm driving in this dude in a tent. So you let him borrow your gloves out of you. No, I can't go that far. Did you wear them? Every now and then. See, it was a waste of money. I knew it. No, it's shut up. Every now and then I pull it off. That's such an impulse, man. So the truth is the reason why I catch myself not wearing them as much as what I have found is it's I, a lot of times I'm drinking something when I drive. And so having the leather and holding like a Diet Coke or something like that is not ideal with the leather gloves and stuff like that. Getting the wet moisture all over it. And then I go over and transfer to the probably not the best move in the first place. And so, yeah, I'm like, that's probably not good. So I find myself taking it off and on. And I'm like, okay, this I use a little less than I thought. One glove, it's still cool to have. So you just have them there is just the flex. If I was going to race some kid, I would definitely put them on. Oh, oh, you look over. Oh, wait a lot. Yeah, seems you. What, motherfucker? Yeah. And he's like, oh, never mind. So I'm driving, I'm driving. And this dude, this is early in the morning. It was like 6am, 630, I'm one of the gym. And I'm driving this dude in Tesla like comes up next to me and then just guns it. And I'm like, ah. And I felt that feeling that you get. Like every old- They probably just got it too, I noticed. Every older guy knows what I'm talking about where something inside of you, it's like either you go and you play a pickup basketball game or some kid like says something to you or whatever. And you just feel this little like, huh, let me show. Yeah, like, okay. So he does this, boom, he guns it. So then he stops at a stoplight because he hit the light and I pull up and there's no one around. And I was like, ah, am I gonna do this? See, that only happens to me when I'm in a certain mood. And when we first got the cars, I was like, dude, I was on the throttle, I was just testing it out like crazy and then I finally kind of calmed down. But then every now and then I'll just be kind of like a little bit of an angsty mood and somebody'll do that and kind of come in and I'm like, I'm getting you. Well, I saw, I pull up next to him and he's another older guy. Oh, that's great. And we looked at, it was a red light and I look over at him and it was a wonderful experience. Like he looked at me, I looked at him. There was no smile, there was no head nod. It was literally like a glance and then we looked straight ahead and we both understood when the light turns green, we're gonna go. So I put in sport mode and hit about 90 and I took off. I was saying, he probably stuck with you till about 80 or 90. Yeah, and then I was like, that's where those things are gutless. They're super. Everyone talks about their zero to 60. Yeah, they're really quick, but take that thing to 130 and see what happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then I beat him and then I let him pull up next to me and then he gave me one of these and I'm like. Okay, so that obviously that has to be like a form of, I don't know, this competitiveness amongst, you know, other men where you want to assert yourself as the alpha, like it's a way of almost. Yeah, like 10,000 years ago with the horses. That's right. You can roll up next to your horse. Race on the horse. You know what I'm saying? Can you imagine that? Man, look at Justin, he's got his horse. I'll be like, I'm out, dude. Horses don't like me, dude. They're too heavy. That's good to hear. I tell you that. I was in Iceland, dude. I was in the back of the pack. I was so mad. Wait, you rode a horse in Iceland? Yeah, yeah. I didn't know you rode a horse in Iceland. Yeah, dude. It did not move. Hey, his horse was looking at the other horse. I was like, dude, when I got on it, it literally groaned. I shit you guys not. It was like. Oh, my God. And then it started walking over away, like trying to lean into the fence. And I'm like, stop it. Yeah. You're not supposed to put another horse on me. I'm supposed to carry you. Where's the Clydesdale? That's hilarious. Oh, my God. I didn't even know you rode a horse in Iceland. Yeah, I got. Yeah. You're the worst sharer. Bro, he is the worst sharer. I am not. You guys are the worst eruptors. You know his son was hospitalized yesterday, right? Oh, he told me. Oh, yeah. I did tell him off, Eric. Katrina said something. He went and took a lot of, like. Now that Adam's gone, let me try that out. I want to hear this horse story. So what did you guys do with horses? And first of all, why are you riding a horse on Iceland? That's weird. It was freezing, too, so. Yeah, so it's a deal. Yeah, so well, we did it because, dude, we tried to like pack in as many adventures as we could because we were there with kids and it's like, you don't have like structured days and you don't have advance and things. And so this was one of them where it was like, they have these horses there that they just leave outside, which I think is crazy that they can survive in that kind of like cold to begin with. So they're like hairy. They're kind of smaller. They're bigger than ponies, but they're not that big. You got a small one, please. It's just big. Can you impose a picture of Justin on a pony? I think they don't. No, I don't. No, dude. Please do that. I hope our editing team can do that. I mean, they gave me like the biggest one out of the mix. Well, there's many ponies. There's something about a groaning when he got on there. This is just over it, you know what I mean? And anyway, so me and of course, so Everett, too, like he was he he was on a horse that was like real young and all this and like was just like all over the place and kept rubbing into my horse. And it was it was pretty funny. Like we both had the same problem, which was stupid. We both kind of like we're adjusting our. This is different moments of the trip. And so we we kind of took a trail that took us up towards the mountain range. And then we went past some of these like houses in the middle of nowhere, but it was like really scenic. But it was it probably was like 20 degrees below below 20 degrees. And there's a wind chill and everything. So we're all just like on these horses, like decked out in like as much like, dude, as much clothes I could possibly wear and it was so still freezing. So literally any exposed skin, you're just going to be like, oh, my God, this is going to be like like to the point where it like stings and it burns, you know, that kind of cold. And so like ever at first is like adjusting his thing. And he's like somewhere else in the pack and like his his glove falls off, right? And so he's his hands like numb and like and then immediately he's just like hunched over. I see him hunched over. I'm like trying to wave for the guy to like grab it because he had to go grab his glove. And then I'm like the asshole is trying to capture it on like Instagram. And I'm like trying to like get a good video of it and everything. And then and then my glove falls out and I was like, oh, no. And so the guy had to go back and get mine, but I had mine off for a long time. Like it was probably like 10 minutes before I finally got my glove back and I was like, dude, it was it was painful. Yeah, it was the point I couldn't even move it. And I thought it was so bad for your position. Classic like influencer mistake, right? But so we get back in like ever it just like and he was being a soldier and he's just like, you know, just kind of hunched over. I'm like, you're right, man, I was brutally cold. And he's just like, you know, just starts crying. I'm like, oh man, I'm so sorry. We're trying to warm him up and everything. And then finally, like he kind of gets we get all these like hand warmers and everything on it. And then he kind of comes back and he's like, that was so much fun. It was amazing until he bounced back. And so I was like, wow. Good for him. So did he did they give him his own horse? Is he? Oh, he's so he has no horse. Ethan has a horse. Oh, wow. OK, so we're all just kind of like, you know, gone on this trail, but Justin was in a wagon. I was behind everybody, dude. I mean, yeah, we're like 20 people. When you when you go on trips like this with your kids, do you bring like food like magic spoon and stuff like that? Just to make it easy. Do you do that? Yeah. Yeah, I do. And they like magic spoon. They like they only like the of the fruity flavor. Like, of course, I thought you guys are not bringing it on like a thing like that, though. I'm not my horseback ready. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. The horse. Yeah. But we had doing that. I don't travel. Oh, I like three different items. I bring a lot. But yeah, that's one of them because breakfast is a big one, especially he's ever eats most of his calories for breakfast. Like that's like the entire. So you want to take advantage? Yeah, dude, it's like if I don't like get that covered early, like my whole day is like screwed with. Speaking of of calories. I've been DMing with some people who are finding it tough, difficult to eat enough calories, which is not a common, not as common as people who want to try to eat less. But it is an issue for some people. They just can't eat enough. And I've been recommending magic spoon to them because it's so palatable. I love that as an easy way to post dinner thing. Yeah, I love to have dinner and then like an hour later. It's like, I mean, that's how I replace my choice of ice cream is what I would I would prefer to have at the time. But having something that's loaded with 30, 40 grams of protein post dinner makes me feel like I'm getting this kind of dessert. It tastes like fruit loops. Yeah, it goes down easy. And so I love it for bulking. I really do. I think it's I think to increase calories, it's so palatable. And then you get that much protein. I think it's after dinner cereal has to become a thing. Yeah, what do you mean? It's been a thing. I mean, I'm just saying nobody's like actually normally markets to that. Or yes, I mean, it's totally a thing. I mean, that's when Jack in the box finally realized I've had magic stunners more post, you know, or after 7 o'clock, 7 p.m. than I ever have before 9 a.m. Like when I was a kid, I always had it later. That's what I did when I rarely ever have it for breakfast. It's not a normal breakfast is normally, like I say, I could talk about all the time where we take meat from the dinner and I scramble it with some eggs. Magic spoon is normally post dinner type of snack. Dude, speaking of like bulking, cutting off stuff, there's a gym in Colorado. And I can't say that I didn't try to think of that. I didn't come up with or think of doing this at some point as well. And I'm sure you did too, Adam. In fact, I think we talked about it. There's a gym in Colorado called Break the Stigma Fitness. Have you heard of this place? You go in and they provide you. They have bongs and pipes and vaporizers, and they provide you with weed and you smoke or vape the weed before, during, after or before, during and or after your workout. Remember, we were going to we had scheduled Ricky Williams to come on the show about three years ago and it all fell through. And we're just like, whatever, it wasn't that big of a deal. Although I would have loved to interview Ricky Williams. I think it would have been cool. But he was opening one of the first gyms like that here in San Francisco. So he was part of that. So he's he's tied into a bunch of I don't quite understand it. I never understood cannabis as a workout. No, I mean, I'm but some people swear by cannabis and yoga. I don't know, maybe you're like I've stretching facility. Yeah, maybe I have friends that are that are pro it. And and they're these people are going to like me saying this. But it tends to be the people that advocate for smoking weed so much that they they don't even know the people that everything is better when you smoke. Yeah. Yeah. And so you ever see that movie? You ever see that movie? It's like they're they're using it multiple times a day. Every day to have a deal. And they're like, oh, man, I'm going to work out. And this is like another way they justify being high basically all day long is oh, there's some benefits. We've there's this study shows this or that it's like, come on. I'm a fan of cannabis and I don't see a lot of training performance. That doesn't mean there's not an exception to rule. Doesn't mean there's somebody who has suffers from crazy anxiety or something that the weed. Yeah, there could be applications. Yeah, I'm not going to say that there's not. But I think with fitness is interesting. And in fact, the majority of people wouldn't see more benefits when you watch the videos of this this gym. And I'm not knocking. It's a gym. So, you know, fitness is fitness. They'll always support it. But you can see the people in the video. They're like stoners. They're not fitness people like hacky sack. Yeah, doing curls. Hey, oh my God, Justin, right, right? Did you see I showed you? Did you see Jamie Lee Curtis? What happened to her? No, no. Oh, you told me. Bro, what happened to her? This is weird stuff. Why are celebrities like so messed up? Like, why do we find out all this stuff? She posted a picture or a video from inside her house on Instagram on Twitter, I think it was. And people saw something weird in it, zoomed in and in her house, there's a painting. And it's a child in a naked child in a luggage. Disgusting. And they were like, what the hell kind of painting is this? And then she deleted it immediately. That's in her house. Yeah. Do you have an image of it, Doug? Oh, you don't want to see it, bro. Really? I mean, it's not like. It's just it's not a full on. You don't see like the private, but it's it doesn't look good, bro. It's like why was it not one of those things where, like, you can't really make it out. Somebody's tried to make like it's like people in the comments, right? They were able to pinpoint the artist. Oh, even the background is clear enough to know who the artist is. Bro, it's like you're going to why would anybody hang this up? Just wait till you see it. OK, zoom in on that picture. If you can, why would you have that hanging on your wall? Why would anybody put that? I don't care who you are or how valuable it is, potential, whatever. That's it. That's like a creepy looking painting. Why would you have that in your house? You know, it's funny is and then that's so funny how the media immediately will like lambast you as this crazy right wing conspiracist or whatever mentioned Hollywood and pedophilia. What the fuck? Why would you have that in your house? That's awful. That makes me like just looking at a ticket off the looking at it for two seconds makes me upset. What do you think? The definition of it is that like a kid playing in the water. Like that is not that looks creepy. No, man, it's a kid in a suitcase. There's Ellen DeGeneres. You hear about her? She did this like video, you know, they do the videos and they're at home like, hey, everybody, blah, blah, blah. Well, in the video, people paused it. And saw paintings and shit in her house. That is it's weird stuff. Like it's creepy stuff. And it all points to like abuse and child abuse and weird shit in her house. Yeah, I'm telling you, man, these lizard people are real. If you well, here's the thing. Yeah, like it's hard for me to talk because like I went through a spell, especially in college, where I'm like looking up all symbolism of things and like like how that that was used a lot like back in the day. And it was very much of like how they identified, you know, different like cults or different like, you know, secret societies or different things. Like, and then you see the way that like cities are structured, the way that like megalithic structures are erected. Like, it's very deliberate. And to think that, you know, all of that just stopped in the ancient times or yeah. And then it's and then using those the same symbols and then bringing them in, you know, like, and you'll see it in movies and you'll see it in people's houses. And like it's just like, OK, like, yes, you know, maybe it's coincidental, but also if I keep seeing patterns, I'm just the person that pays attention to patterns. That's all I just watched a video where there was this X CIA agent. I don't know if we'll be able to find it, but this X CIA agent talks about how they get influential people to do what they want. So like CEOs of big corporations or celebrities. And what they do is they organize or they show up to these parties or like Epstein Island or whatever. And they catch these people in compromising situations, take photos and videos of them. And then they say things like, oh, you want to do that. You want to say that thing. I don't think you should. Oh, you still want to. Well, then we're going to we're going to let leak this to the media and it's a photo of you with this underage person or you cheating on your wife or whatever. I mean, and that's a very that's an old strategy. It's a very, very old strategy. Yes, since forever. I mean, like with the honeypot, right, like even for spies, like they would like use sex as a way to get information. Where is the where's the retired CIA agent person who's got some sort of a moral foundation who wants to bring light to this stuff and doesn't care. He's going to be ostracized. I'll never talk about it. Could you? OK, first of all, if you're in it and you know what they can do and you have a family, do you think you're going to say anything? You know the power and the influence. Well, you see Angelina Jolie's video of like what she described about the satanic ritual. Yeah, I mean, so there's videos that are out there. I pull up Ellen's like weird completely get like dismissed. And like, you know, people are just like, oh, you know, they're just making this up or whatever. I don't really know how they justify it. But it's creepy. Well, the way they OK from what I see is it gets dismissed because it's so crazy. Yeah, it's so crazy that you're just like, oh, that's got to be somebody who's, you know, that's what those right wing nuts always say about those people or it's a it's a conspiracy theorist type of thing. Like that's how they dismiss it almost. And it seems just so I think it's because it's so blatant. Like Ellen's doing a video in her house and she's got some of this. You got Jamie Lee Kershey doing a video. She's like, they ain't trying to hide that, obviously. I mean, people come over their house. Like you're doing a video. Like if it was something you're really trying to be shady about. So I think that's the the what people use to argue it is like. Well, so I heard something evil and bad and shady. And why would she do a video? So I heard I heard I read this is all now that we're going deep into this space or whatever they saw. I read that as part of their cults or their whatever, that they believe in karma. OK, oh, by the way, there's a painting that was on Ellen's. I don't know if you can. What is that? What is that? I can't I see scales. Is that a hangman thing? Oh, it's it's it's zoom in on it. And there's some meaning behind it. People have broken it down and talked about what it is. And it's satanic and all that stuff. I don't know if you could read. There's a caption if it's a bloody a figure holding a bloody scales. The justice, the bloody hand, bloody crotch area. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, weird. So I read that that is part of like this. Not eat preload. That's all I know. It's not chicken soup for the soul. Yeah, exactly. Like can we just be like normal? It's going to have like blood. Love, laugh, live or whatever. So I read two cases of shit. I read that these satanic cults sort of they believe in in karma. So in other words, what you put out, you'll get back. And the way you get away from that or you avoid getting it back is if you tell people what you're going to do. So by putting it out and telling people what you're going to do and doing it away to where people are like, huh, you get away. Then you avoid the potential of it coming back to help to get you. I mean, so if you make a song, talk about there's so much there's so much truth in that Katrina and I talk about this when we talk about before we met each other, like a little harder, the guilt and previous relationships. One of the things that we both had in common when we were going through our single phase in life was, you know, right. I mean, that's part of why core value. One of our core values is radical honesty. Like you see how much further you can get away with stuff when you're just blunt and straightforward about it. Like, you know, hey, yeah, I'm, I'm dating five other people. Like how many people have the ball? Like how many dudes or girls have the balls to be honest about something like that when they're out meeting people. And it's amazing that you, I mean, of course, you're, you'll meet somebody who'll be like, oh my God, I would never date you if you're dating four or five other people or you're talking to other people. It's me or nobody else. Okay. That's fine. But there's a lot of people who respect that. They're like, you know what, I'm in the same phase of my life too. I don't want to settle down and get married. And so I'm okay. And you could literally be like, yeah, Tuesday I have a date with this girl and I'll see you on Friday. And, and being honest and upfront about it, you get away with so much more than if I were to act like you're the only one and then she finds out I'm on a date with somebody else on Tuesday, then she goes crazy. Yeah. Well, okay. So sleeping of speaking of a little bit speaking of, of who's got the balls, here's a study that just got shared with me who sleep, sleep duration is associated with testy size and healthy young men. Okay. So they found the conclusion that there's a positive, linear and possible inverse U shaped relationship between sleep duration and testy's volume. In other words, more sleep, good sleep is connected to bigger balls and less sleep or not good sleep. Small balls. What are you like? Who comes out when the combination of the ugly guy, right? Yeah. You're packing. Ryan, if you're ugly and get good sleep. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know if that means penis. I think this is balls. No balls. Yeah. Just balls. But I mean, both those were balls though, aren't they? This is all their balls. This is balls. So is the other one. So we had the ugly. Yeah. You're under track. Yeah. They're both big balls. Yeah. So if you get, if you're ugly, get some good sleep and get some boulders. You'll have some levels. If you're really good looking, you probably need to focus on your sleep. Get some sleep. Probably get some rest. Hey, today's episode's also brought to you by Organifi, right? Oh, I have a, I want to tell you guys. So we have, we have a friend of ours that's a vegan that one of the challenges that vegans have is obviously getting high quality protein. So I took some Organifi protein from the back over here and gave it to her. And she, she doesn't work out or anything like that. So it's not like she's trying to build muscle or, but she's relatively health conscious. Anyway, a week into it, she's come to me and she said she notices a difference in her energy, just from adding a scoop or two scoops approach. It's like, I feel better. I feel healthier. You know, the thing that I find. And she don't normally doesn't supplement. So she was obviously low on protein. The thing that I find most interesting about vegan protein is that, because I'm not, I'd prefer a way, right? I prefer a way it tastes better, you know, how I am with that stuff. But I can't, um, I can't double up on way. So if I'm behind, let's say like, like, say I'm a hundred grams behind, I'm like, oh, I need it. I'm going to do a protein shake right now. And I'm going to do double, too much. If I do double serving, it'll, it'll mess my gut up. I can do one. Okay. Double mess my gut up. Cause it's from milk. I assume because I can, because with vegan protein with organifi, I can do two, three scoops, no problem. And it doesn't affect me the same way. I haven't tested like the bone broth one that Sal always raves about. But I know that I've, I've learned that about myself with way protein versus vegan protein is if I, I can have way. And so I can have dairy and moderation. But if I, if I overdo it, I definitely will, will feel a difference versus vegan protein powder. I can double triple up. I can add for most people. Yeah. Yeah. Most people, it's easier to digest or they find it easier. I'd say many people find it that way. So actually, Adam, I want to ask you, you, you mentioned some statistics on chat GBT earlier. Oh, yeah. I want you to bring it up on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you, this is crazy. I'll give you the numbers that I had seen something similar to this already. But I mean, I did a post actually just talking about like that. It's crazy to me that there's people that are still sleeping on this man because I mean, listen to these numbers, right? So the, this was like a little chart on the time it took these companies to reach one million users, some of the most prolific companies in the tech space we know, right? So Netflix three and a half years, it took them to reach one million users. Airbnb two and a half years to reach one million users. Facebook, okay. 10 months to reach one million users. Spotify, five months. Instagram, two and a half months. iPhone, 74 days. Chat, GBT, five days. It's how fast it spread. I wonder what that now. Oh, I know. It's got, it's, it's probably compounding it. It's crazy. It is. This is version, version one. Now, I'll just, I heard that, that they were going to go for another round of funding, they're opening it up again. But like the valuation now is insane 20 billion compared to like them, not even really the revenue is not making anything. It's free. Yeah. It's losing. It's losing like a million dollars a day. A day. Yeah. But, but people see that. I mean, like, because I mean, the whole game in tech was to acquire users and there would be companies that would be in the negative for years, just to try and acquire the users to then prove that now we're going to be, you know, money. I don't, a lot of people don't realize this. This is very, so we always, we've been talking about chat GBT and what that could mean, you know, like, like big macro scale, but just in the immediate kind of future, the close future, people don't realize how much this technology is going to upend the internet just from, from this simple fact right here. Many of these internet companies at Google, one of the most profitable companies of all time, they make their money through advertising because they give you a bunch of search option. You ask for something, you search and you got a bunch of options and that's how they make their money. Chat GBT just gives you the answer. Yeah. So that means that Google, which will, in my opinion, in a lot of people's opinion, is going to get crushed by something like chat GBT. How are they going to make money? How do you make money when you just give someone the answer? So they're going to have to figure out ways. They're going to, they will Facebook, Amazon, all these, they will create their own system within their system. So that's like, so the, the, the open AI is like this, this technology can be used by any company. We can adopt it and utilize it. They did it that way intentionally. And so in order, and in order to monetize it, this is, here's where the legal battles are going to happen. Private companies are going to buy it, right? Which means that they can't. Nobody else will be able to use it. They've got to put the money. Right. I mean, I think, I think the, the future is exactly how we're trying to use it, right? How we're looking into right now, integrating it into our, our ecosystem. So basically anything of that, same thing, like Facebook will do the same thing, Amazon will do the same thing, Google will say they will have to, to stay relevant or else this will surpass it as far as its ability to give you answers. And the fact that it gets more and more accurate as, as you use it and input more and more things. Cause I mean, you're already seeing like with Alexa being in the home and then like in your car, you can like voice command and all, it's just applicable everywhere you go, like to have it integrated. Yeah, I'm trying to, to challenge myself to, to utilize it because I do think too. So, you know, this is a funny kind of comparison or analogy, but one of the things that, you know, that Sal is better at than any of us by a long shot is how he Googles. Yeah. He's a better Googler than Doug, right? Oh, then Doug's got to Google for us. There is a skill. There's a skill to how you prompt it to give you what you're looking for to make an argument for whatever case that same type of skill set is going to be required for chat GPT and the people that will get the best stuff from it or utilize it the best. So you're not a prompt to the best. No, I'd have prompted it. I was trying, I was getting kind of frustrated with our marketing team because I was trying to, I was challenging him on like, are you really diving in any kind of dismissed it a little bit? And I'm like, bro, like seriously, like you need to really dig into it. And, and instead of like trying it one time and going like, ah, that's okay. That's you prompting it. That's not it. It doesn't have the capability. It doesn't can't read your mind. It's, it's not, yeah, yeah. But, but if you, if you prompt it generic, you'll get the best generic answer from it. The more detailed your prompt is, the more crazy it'll give you. And I was showing my other buddy this and I made it right, a love letter to his wife. And I said, so I did a generic one first friend. That was like really good. And then I'm all now watch this. Now put in there that you have two kids together and what she does for a living. And like, and it just included it. And so then it includes that information. And then it becomes very personalized. It definitely felt like it came from him. He's all needs to be realistic. Can you write this in the form of an eighth grade education, which by the way, you could prompt that to do that, you could do that. Right. And it would be like, so I love you. Like the rain. Yeah. So for the silly people that are still sleeping on it, that think like, oh, it's not. It's okay. Or it's not. It's like, dude, that's cause you can't prompt that so weird. That's so weird. Speaking of the technology that it could utilize, do you guys know that they could they've done this where they can hook up an electrode? I don't know how they do this actually. I think it's with electrodes and they can create images based off of your dreams. Do you know that? So you you'll have a dream and a computer. Maybe Duncan looks up. So there's a computer that will pull up an image. Do you have those probes like are they like monitoring your brain? Well, I think it has to do with picking up brain waves and they have to like they have to coach they have to train the machine. So like you have to picture something. Tell the computer what you're picturing, picture something else. So then it starts to be able to read your brain waves. So then when you're sleeping, it will create images of what you were dreaming of. So essentially it could read your mind. So this technology obviously is in its infancy, but at some point this is going to be able to read your mind. I don't want my dreams out there like that. It's a messed up one. I see ponies and pickles. That's weird, Justin. Why do you have ponies and pickles in your trees? They go together. Did you find it, Doug? Yeah. So this mind reading algorithm can decode the pictures in your head. Look at that. So a new computer program uses brain activity to draw images of airplanes, leopards, and stained glass windows. What? And there's some pictures here. That is like someone thought those and then the computer drew it at the bottom. We were literally this close to like magic. You guys realize that? I mean, AI kind of feels like that, you know what I'm saying? It's really close. I'm going to start like working on a wand. I really want to know what's going to get really upended first, or will it be like, you know, I'm trying to remember. I think it's going to be upended first as how we advertise, how you advertise on Facebook, on Google, on that stuff. So, okay. How are you going to advertise? So the all-in guys we're speculating on like where this is going to be like really valuable for companies like us is like, you're going to integrate this AI and it's going to crawl all the users that are interacting with you and learn their behaviors to where it starts to change the website to how it delivers it to each person. Like it knows, okay. So let's say, let's somebody. Wow, I'm pumped. No, think about this. Somebody who buys this program, and this program for us. And listen to this episode. Right, and listen to these episodes. There's a 95% chance that these are their goals. And then, then all of a sudden. This suits best for you. Right, and we have all that content. So then it starts to feed them exactly what they need to hear. Mind pump the program for 45-year-old moms with kids who went off to college. Oh my gosh, it's just like the perfect podcast. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the people that learn to. That's wild. If you have a business already and you've already created some, one of an ecosystem of people that are interacting with you and your business, learning to integrate that into there can be unbelievably, I mean, also, not just for like, I mean, of course the mind goes to sales and making more money, but even just to like giving your customers a better experience. Like less of, they're gonna get less of what they don't want and more of what they really want or more specific and curtail to them. And you give them a better experience to sell more. Right. I mean, so that's, they go hand in hand. Exactly, you're right. It goes hand in hand. Oh, shout out. Let's give a shout out to our friend, Rob Wolf. Yes. Go to his page. DOS, DAS, Rob with two Bs, Wolf. He is fire. Rob Wolf goes, he's a very smart dude, very smart nutrition, very intelligent. Also can be quite controversial, which is why we enjoy it. The only reason he does not have millions of followers is cause he's been shadow band like crazy cause stuff, but he's a great. Find him and follow him. And we've done some episodes with him already that were good, but we're due for a, it's been a couple of years since we linked up with Rob. I'd love to get him on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's fighting the good fight over there. All right, check this out. You've probably tried CBD products and you probably weren't impressed. Well, that's not like the company we work with called Ned. They use full spectrum hemp oil extracts. Now they do contain CBD, but they also have other cannabinoids. So you take their stuff and 30 to 45 minutes later, you literally feel it. Like you feel the anti-anxiety effects. You feel the euphoric effects. You feel the anti-inflammatory effects. This company has real stuff and it really works. Go check them out. Go to helloned.com that's H-E-L-L-O-N-E-D.com forward slash mind pump. Then use the code mind pump for 15% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First question is from Mike Plum, 94. I've been doing conventional deadlifts for a while now and have noticed massive improvements. I've seen a lot of debate as to whether rack poles or conventional deadlifts are better for back development. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah. So a rack pole is good if you're, first off, it's good on working specific ranges of motion. It can involve the hips less so that you're getting less of the posterior chain and- Do you know where this comes from, right? Bodybuilders who don't want to make it easier. Well, I mean, they don't say it's because they make it easier. They don't want their waist to grow. So they take more of the hip hinge out of it to make it more back heavy by taking rack poles and then that's their argument is we take out the more, the hip dominant part of the exercise so your hips, so your waist doesn't grow. Bodybuilders always trying to isolate, right? Yeah, it's a dumb idea. I mean, rack poles have value and they have value when you have a sticking point and you're using it to compliment, like when you're doing lots of deadlifting, one of the things you have to be careful is not overtraining and deadlifting too much, right? And so, you know, let's say you have a, like your low back is pretty fried because you went pretty heavy on Monday and then again, here you are on Wednesday, you're gonna deadlift again and you're like, I just don't, here's a chance where I might rack pole because I want to give my low back a little bit of rest, right? And then, but yet still train deadliftings or something that compliments my deadlift but what you're seeing if you're referring to like the bodybuilding community that, you know, advocates for rack pools because it hits more of the back than a conventional deadlift is this idea that conventional deadlifting is going to grow your waist and that's not good for competitors. Yeah, that doesn't make sense because with a rack pole, you can add more load. You're still gonna load the waist, I guess. I mean, you're not gonna grow your waist any substantial. Yeah, I would imagine that's part of it too is just the ego portion of being able to load it quite substantially more. That feeds into it. Maybe, you know what I think? I think with bodybuilders, they don't know where to put deadlifts because most bodybuilders, high level bodybuilders train in these like body part splits where today is chest and shoulders and tomorrow's biceps and triceps and then it's back and then it's chest and then it's legs. And they look at a deadlift and they go, what day do I put it on? Leg day or back day? And if I put it on back day, what about leg day the following day or before that? And I think that's one of the big challenges. The truth is for most people, conventional deadlifts is your best bet. Rack pole should not replace conventional deadlifts. Now, do I think rack poles have value? I do. I think pulling from different heights and ranges of motion is phenomenal for back and strength development, but as an adjuvant, as something that you add to your conventional deadlifts, not as a replacement. To compliment your deadlift training. I mean, you'll never find a powerlifter who doesn't utilize deficit deads and rack poles. When you're deadlifting at such a high volume, back to my original point, one of the things that I always had to check myself on is this desire to wanna keep loading the bar and I was deadlifting three times a week back then and you can't lift heavy deadlifts three times a week all the time. And I'd have to start to change at least one or two of those out with lighter weight deficit deadlifts one day or rack pools another day to give my body and CNS a little bit of break on hammering it all the time on deadlifts, but what this person is talking about, they're referencing the bodybuilding community that tries to justify the rack pools as a better back development exercise. It's like, no, conventional deadlift, bro, you'll be fine. Next question is from Mr. JB Brown. I want to do the advanced version of Maps 15 and have an easy curl bar at home, but not a straight bar. Are there any significant differences between the two types or would I be okay using the easy curl for the exercise? Yeah, so easy curl bar isn't gonna work very well for bench press, for squats, for deadlifts, because the bar's shorter and because it's got those angles in between, you're not gonna be able to place it very well on your back like when you do squats, it's gonna be hard to grab. Easy curl bars are great for curls. I prefer them over straight bars because when I supinate really hard, sometimes it doesn't feel great on my wrist. And this is probably based on morphology. Some people are okay with it, some people aren't. But that's pretty much it. Like trying to deadlift with it, it's a short bar, it's really short. It's not gonna be able to hold as much weight. You might be able to deadlift with it. Maybe, I can't because it's too narrow. I mean, here's the thing. We've talked about this before, like no exercise done safely is a bad exercise. Deadlifting, bench-pushing squat, I wouldn't recommend any of that stuff. Could you, is it better than you doing absolutely nothing? Of course it is. I mean, for the time being, you could try and do it with these things, but then I would be asking for my birthday if somebody could get me a straight bar. Doesn't it kind of remind you guys of when we had those like sand-loaded like plates? Oh, when we were kids? Yeah, when we were kids. And then the bench was literally this wide. And you're like this. So, I mean, we tried our best to make it work. And it's not ideal, but like to be able to do all those exercises with an easy curl bar that's gonna look silly and it's gonna be uncomfortable and weird. Imagine squatting with that. And how would you rack it? Like a squat rack won't allow you to rack it. You would have to do a weight that you could press and set down. That's what I mean. You could do, you could row with it. You could press with it, even though it's gonna be more like an enclosed bench press. You could deadlift with it, even though you're not gonna be able to load it that much. And you'd probably grab wide on the outside, right? So, I mean, there's definitely, okay, if I was stuck in prison and I had an easy curl bar, like I would find ways to squat with it and deadlift and do stuff with it. You know, you could buy, and these aren't gonna be the greatest. But you can get a straight, you could get a used straight bar for cheap, dude. Yeah, you can buy one on Amazon for 40 or 50 bucks. You're not gonna be able to load it more than 400 pounds, but this person probably isn't. So, I would, I'd just do that, go on Amazon. Doug, what are you saying? What do we misunderstand? So, I grabbed this question I misunderstood it. I was actually thinking about, for curls, you know, is there a difference between the easy curl bar for curls or for... Why, did you word it different than what the person put? I don't think so. I think I just misread it. So, okay, so read it to it. So, my question was, and the reason I was attracted to this question is curls, you know. What's the difference between curls with the easy curl bar or a straight bar? Yeah, oh, slightly. It could maybe be substituted. Very, very slight difference. Very slight difference with the easy curl bar and a straight bar. And really, it's an issue of comfort. And I prefer easy curl bars again because most people do, and a lot of that actually is the wrist mobility. Like a lot of people lack the ability to completely supinate really comfortably like that. And, you know, honestly, Yeah, and the straight bar forces you to do that because how often do you completely supinate your hands? And we should be able to do that. So, to me, if you choose the easy curl bar because it's easier all the time and straight bar bothers you, okay, for the time being yes to the easy curl bar, but that's also a flag to you that you probably should do some wrist mobility work. So, it might not be wrist mobility. There's also some morphology. So when it comes to supinating, when you look at the bicep attachment, where it attaches on the, I don't know which bone of the forearm this is, the old one, I don't know, but it where it attaches is gonna dictate how much you can supinate and how much you can. I would never ever tell a client that said that to me, like, okay, then let's just skip that, and let's not work on your wrist mobility whatsoever. The morphology argument is like the people that try to make the morphology argument on the way they squat with their stance, there's always room to improve mobility there. And if I have, if client has an issue, cannot grab a straight bar and curl on it, the likelihood that it's their morphology that's keeping them from that. And even if it is their morphology, the likelihood that we can't make improvements by working on your wrist mobility to me is a bit naive. So, supination would be, I don't know if you'd call that wrist mobility because the wrist isn't bending. It's the forearm that's twisting, but this one actually is quite common, which is why an easy curl bar is so popular. There is, there are big differences in the attachment of the bicep, one of the heads of the bicep. I know I looked into this, not for me, for clients, and where it attaches, I again, I can't remember which bone I'm referring to, but where it attaches will determine whether or not a full supination or partial supination is- Well, I'm not necessarily saying that there's not a situation. Just like there's not this squatting argument that made, there are morphologies that make a difference where people can't- Well, a squat is a fundamental movement, though. I've experienced, yeah, you're right. I've experienced, personally, myself, the ability to comfortably do a straight bar curl and then be very uncomfortable in doing it. And what I know is when I'm not putting the work in mobility-wise, I struggle with doing the straight bar and it's a little rough for me to do it. When I'm putting the work in, it's comfortable for me, it's fine. So, I've been on both sides of the fence and so, if I had a client that was at, I would definitely be addressing. You'd do both, yeah. Next question is from Kate Turnit. How can I keep my body from swinging when doing hanging leg raises due to core stability issues or is there an alternative movement to replace these? If you can't prevent your body from swinging a lot when doing leg raises, then move to a different exercise. Reverse, yeah. Yeah, I would go to reverse crunches. Reverse crunches on a flat bench would be the biggest regression and then moving up a decline bench would be how you progress. And eventually, you can move to hanging leg raises. Not everybody's gonna be able to do them to really hard, like properly, but a really good hanging leg raise looks very controlled. It's not the swinging back and forth that you see people doing. It's definitely not the CrossFit, whatever they do, I don't know what they call it, but when you're doing a real hanging leg raise to work the abs, you come down and it's very controlled, minimal swinging. And then when you come up, you get this pelvic tilt and that's where the abs are. I've never been a fan of training these with clients. I think you can get such a good, a reverse crunch. I think I had like two clients ever did this one. Yeah, I mean, if you're hella good at this, like, okay, then I'm not gonna tell a client to stop, but most clients, you put them on a reverse incline and holding on and roll up. Yeah, the only time I even really cared about these when I was really working on like a lot of like levels up to get towards these like front levers and back lever, things like you're trying to do for like gymnastic moves and like sort of like the prerequisites for that is like, so if I'm hanging and I'm trying to, you know, maintain that kind of control and stability while also then like, getting iron cross type of deal. Yeah, like you're working your way up levels of like calisthenic, you know, intensified movements as it makes sense. But like, I think people just see people doing it in the gym and they're like, that's really hard. And then they try and emulate it and they're not even getting good activity in their core. They're getting like all hip flexor and everything else. Even when I'm at the peak strength of my abs, you won't see me do this. Really? Oh, I do them all the time. No, no, when I'm at peak strength, I can still make an incline reverse curl unbelievably. Yeah, but the- Because you can raise it up like what's like, you know, what's that called? Is it dragonfly? You call that where you- Oh, dragonfly? That's not a, yeah, but that's a hold. That's intense. But what I'm saying is that's how you could progress a reverse laying crunch on an incline. And I would do that before I would go over to leg raises. Well, for building muscle, a really good controlled hanging leg raise. There's very few ab exercises that'll give you that much resistance. And if you, I mean, you can obviously, you should regress until you can get to the point where you can do one or two that are good. And that's okay. It's totally fine to hang and do one or two very controlled, yes. And they build the abs. They do build that. I think built my abs more than that. Yeah, and I think too, I mean, it's definitely it's the control, it's the stability part of it. So to do like a hollow body position, like just to be able to maintain that all the way from your fingertips to your toes and have that kind of stability control. Like that's where now it's like, okay, maybe not gonna apply this towards like a hanging bar situation. Next question is from Sukraj93. Should you start a maps program over if you've had to take a week off due to illness, travel, et cetera, or pick up where you left off? Just a week? Yeah, it depends. I mean, I just pick up. If you're sick, I would probably do like a week of easy working out. It depends how you feel. If it's like vacation, I would go right back to it. I mean, listen, you have, we've already talked about the study already that referred to the group that every three weeks they took a solid week off. And so a week interruption on a program. No big deal. No big deal at all. In fact, maybe good for you. Your point is good, is a good point is if you were really sick, then with that week back might look like, like I might repeat the last week that I was on and do it really light and easy, the week coming back from being sick. And then when I get to week two, I'm now back where I left off. But to start a whole program over a one week only. That's not that long of a timeframe. If you give me a really long timeframe, I'd have a totally different protocol. I might even just suggest maps 15. It's a great like momentum builder to get you back on track. Yeah, a lot of people, especially, well, I should say a lot of fitness fanatics, if they take a week off and they weren't sick, so they went on vacation, they actually come back stronger. A lot of fitness fanatics find themselves coming back stronger. In which case, you know, you jump back where you left off, you will get sore. The soreness definitely becomes more pronounced, but you'll find that you're actually stronger. The only time I would take an easier week to get back into it is if you took a week off due to injury or illness. But if it's just a week off for travel, vacation, or cause you just missed that gym, then yeah, I would jump right in. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have fitness guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram, Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram, Mind Pump Adam. You can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the- Yeah, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.