 Thanks. You are. Okay. Keep an eye on. It should be all you need from me. Thank you. Great. Thanks, Sean. Yeah. Okay, everybody. Um, Welcome to our meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You look like we have any. Public at the moment. So of course you saw my note about Stephanie. So let's keep her in our thoughts and her family. Um, Of course, I think we should also take a moment just to keep all of our. All the black members of our community and our nation in our thoughts as we're going through this. And I think that's a very important part of. I think that's a very important part of. Meaningful. Change. Um, So given. Sort of the fact that I bet most of us have been sort of. At least I know I have been kind of. Absorbed with all of the news and everything that's been going on. I don't know. Just give it anybody who wants to speak or. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we started. Thank you. Laura. For just. Giving us a moment to acknowledge the. Very traumatic times we're in. Yeah. And I think, um, We have a timely discussion top today that will roll in some of that. And I haven't read it yet, but I just saw there was a New York Times post about sort of environmentalism and, and racism. Um, Maybe we can share that together. There's lots of stuff written about this, of course. Um, that we have talked about in our meetings, but you know, need to continue to keep at the forefront of our, of our work. So I'm going to share my screen here. In terms of the agenda. I don't believe we receive the notes from our meeting last week. Last time's meeting next time. Um, But because we have unfortunately lost our, our official note taker. Um, we will need to go back to. The time when we had to take our own notes. Um, and for Sarah's. Um, Knowledge, but really for all of us to kind of. Be mindful of, I don't know why this isn't opening. Let's see. Give me one second. We did get the document. Okay, great. Um, So, so this is just sort of an overview of what we have to include in our minutes based on what's included in the guide. Um, so I thought maybe what we do, um, is just try to go in alphabetical order with who's here. If someone's not here, we'll skip them and they'll be on the docket for next time. Um, does that sound okay with everybody? Like thumbs up. Yeah. See, why not? Uh, so, um, That would mean that maybe doing. Going by last name, huh? Yes. I'm doing it right. I'm also bad at the alphabet. So. Yeah. Keep me on my toes. Uh, so Dwayne, if you're willing and able to take minutes for today's meeting. Yep. Perfect. Yep. I'll get that started. And then Sarah and Darcy, you guys are going to, it's going to be Darcy next third letter. Right. Um, okay. So. Um, I think that we've convened. Who's here. Yep. Any votes we take and so forth. Yep. Yep. And sort of high level issues that we discuss. Yep. Yep. Um, and if you want to summarize the conversation, some folks like to do that. Some folks don't, um, you know, just making a note. If you're capturing people's comments that you probably won't be able to do that. So, um, making a note that that's. That may not be the full conversation. I think it's helpful when we look back. And then you can just submit them to Stephanie. I think after this meeting, maybe submit them to me and I'll see how Stephanie's doing. And we can decide what to do. With that. Great. Yep. I'm going to basically just open up last. Set of minutes and just use as a template. Okay. So, um, Next item on the, unless, does anybody have any comments or thoughts on that? I know you just received it. So if you have any edits or thoughts, please feel free to send them. Over email and then we can edit the document. Discuss again. But hopefully it's pretty straightforward. So we, um, don't have any staff updates with. Any updates from town council. No, I don't have any updates other than, um, that I had said I was going to bring back the, the framework timeline with a few little edits on it. And, um, I don't have that today. It's not. Time sensitive. So, um, I will. Get that to the group sometime in the near future. You know, since our timeline. Goes over the next year. I think we have time to deal with it. Great. Um, Andra, did you want to speak to our call from this week? Last week? Yes. So Laura and I were on a call with the, um, Rocky mountain Institute people who are running the building acceleration, building electrification accelerator program. And it's a, um, Kind of a hybrid program of, um, Some municipalities are sending a team of people sort of. More officially selected and some municipalities are being represented by residents who are interested in making such changes. Um, so, uh, We were thinking that it, it might be a good idea to have someone from ECAC on a team and, and have the, um, impetus come from residents because. Initially it's not quite clear how relevant it will be, but we think it, there will be some very useful information. They're focusing a lot on, um, The process of how you would get a town meeting or a town council, um, city council to, and mayor, you know, to approve, um, The ordinance, um, Their goal is to have a lot of the municipalities who participate and up with an ordinance or a bylaw that, um, Would require new buildings to be electrified. Our interests might be a little different, but I still think we could learn from them. And Stephanie and I talked today and, and she indicated that she would be very interested in, um, At least going to their first meeting and being, um, You know, seeing what it's like. Um, but perhaps not doing it in any official capacity. So, um, Just wanted to see if there's anybody. Well, Laura, did you want to add anything? No, I think that covers it. Um, I think we both, as Andre said, Both came out of the meeting feeling like this could have a ton of potential. Um, It does seem like it's, it's a time commitment. Um, but there's also no real, If, if we join and it ends up not being beneficial, Then I think we drop out. Um, so, um, But it does seem like maybe something that one ecac member or Stephanie would do maybe with some other members, Eager members of our community. Potentially members of our task groups. Um, but given the timing, I think under the kickoff meeting was At the end of June, right? Yeah. Um, Potentially. Just Stephanie maybe or Stephanie. If anyone on the group feels, um, Kind of called to this work wants to join that kickoff, Then if it seems like based on that, It would be a useful, Uh, thing for us to do, then maybe we can get some task group member Community members to join in. Um, I think we talked about, you know, Clearly electrification is going to need to be a goal, A part of our portfolio of solutions. And I think the question is just, Is the information this group going to give us going to really be Helpful to us to move that forward. They're going to be focusing a lot on, Um, the kind of thing that, um, Berkeley and Brookline have done, you know, Which is to ban new gas hookups. And our interests overlap somewhat because we haven't Officially said we don't want the moratorium to end, but, um, We like it. We're going to keep it going. But we also have oil and, you know, Developments putting in propane as well as being motivated to do Electric development. So yeah, My goal is state level action, of course, Or even larger than that. Um, and I think that we're the only town That they're talking to. That's more rural. At least that's the impression I got. So we may be able to bring something to that conversation. That would be really beneficial from the state level. Work. Um, so there's, there's lots of reasons why I think we should at least Check it out. Um, which it sounds like if Stephanie's willing to do, That's great. And if someone else. Wants to join. Yeah, Darcy. And is it. You might have already said this. Is it targeting all residential commercial? The whole gamut municipal everything? I think actually it may be focusing more on. Um, Private, but, but. We don't have, we don't know yet. And they're going to really develop it around the needs of the Communities that are. A part of it sounds like. So. Is anyone interested in. Being a part of that team or. Initially. Yeah, I, I could be interested in that. I was sort of holding back to see if anybody from the building committee subcommittee. I wanted to take a first. But I'd be willing to check it out. I think we could also. Announce it at our first task group meeting and see if there's anyone in our group. Who wants. To join you. Um, It is. I think they said the time commitment. Could amount to two hours a week. And it may not mean every member of the. Team. Municipal team would have to put that time in, but. I guess there's work in between the major meetings. So. Does anybody have any more, a website or. Written information about this and the goals that. We could read before committing. I could talk with you more about it and. There's a flyer. Okay. So far, I think that. Pretty much all there is. Yeah. Yeah. Share the flyer with us and that'd be at least a good first step. Okay. Okay. I think that, um, that's helpful. So Steve, we'll kind of. Rope you in a bit and at least maybe just to attend the kickoff and see. Um, and then Jesse, I think that's a good point, you know, and we'll see how things align potentially if we've done the kickoff first. And we feel like it's a good fit. If it doesn't seem like a good fit, then we can. Just move on. Yeah, Darcy. Um, I just have a question because I find it. Interesting that the group is, um, Is focused on. Building electrification as opposed to. You know, being net zero. Um, no, we, we have a bunch of developments in Amherst that are. That are now electrified with heat pumps. Um, but they're not, they're not, uh, you know, Equipped with solar or anything like that. So I just asked about the new development down on one university drive that, um, Barry Roberts development and, um, it, It, um, Is going to be all heat pumps and heat pumps are going to be on the roof. Uh, I mean the, uh, whatever. The, the parts of them that need to be outside are going to be on the roof. And so they're not. Planning on being solar ready to why they're just focusing on location rather than both. Of being net zero. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I don't, I don't know if you remember specifically, um, this is one of their man, like one of their mandates from their funders is the goal of increasing. Reducing delivered fuels and natural gas. So, So they may be coming at it from that angle instead. I don't think that it will be in conflict. They're going to be responsive. Cool. Okay. Okay. Next up on the list here is review and approval of finer, final draft stakeholder list, but I want to suggest maybe we start. First with, um, the engagement discussion. Cause I think that feeds. That's going to inform. Some of our stakeholder. List. Is that okay with you? Yeah. Yeah. I can go ahead and share. My screen. Okay. Um, So. I just wanted, I know we had a little check in, um, at the beginning, but I was wondering if. We could just have a moment of silence. Um, and just. Keeping our, um, thoughts. Um, The loss of George Floyd of his family and all the families. Who have been affected. Um, by this for so long and who are out in the streets or, um, behind bars right now. So I'm just going to take a. Brief moment. Um, so. In keeping with the committee's charge. Um, part six C, which says, uh, engagement of the public and relevant stakeholders in education planning. Goal setting and development of climate actions with attention to inclusion of underrepresented groups. And environmental justice communities, including, but not limited to holding an annual public forum focused on climate action. And the work of the EC and AC. Um, Um, I just want to share some thoughts on. Community participation. Um, and I wanted to start with this chart. It's from the urban sustainability directors network case studies. Of the climate justice work that was completed in. Portland, Providence, Seattle and DC. Portland. The one on the West coast. Um, This, uh, chart shows the impact of, I don't know if, I don't know how to make it bigger here. Um, but can, is this a okay view? Can you all see it? I cannot see it. Okay. I think you can zoom in. If you go up to the top left where you see the 100%. Yeah, I can go up to a higher zoom. So it shows us the impact of our stance toward the community. And it's, um, starts over here at, um, At a stance of ignoring, um, and then it, it moves all the way over to deferring to, um, and I just want to take a few minutes for us to look at the chart together. Um, and I will scroll up. Um, so that we can see the next. Pieces here. And just give you a little time to. Take a look at it. We, we have those, that stands at the beginning and then there's, I'm aligned for how that actually is experienced as an impact. Um, Some of the goals. And then it lists some of the activities that reflect, um, these stances. And then moving down to what the message ends up being. And then it lists some of the activities that are most typically involved with. These stances. And some of the budgets. Or budget breakdowns. So I'll continue to just, um, I'll just go through them and put them on. Notices something or wants to reflect on pieces that you might feel resonate with work that we've done thus far in the community. Um, not just specifically to our work with ECAC, but, um, how you've experienced. Other. Community participation efforts. And anyone can go ahead and share. Darcy. I find this really, really exciting that you found this somewhere because I've been thinking about it a lot as a town councilor and the fact that it's kind of, you know, with this MVP process. Actually, the MVP process has the potential of being really deep outreach. But the organizational part, the data gathering part is actually the easy part, although you have to find the right community members to represent a broad swath of the community. The harder part is then taking the data and somehow meaningfully incorporating it or, you know, keeping those people in the position of having a voice in decision making. So that is the hard part. And I just like the fact that we're even talking about it because normally it isn't talked about. Normally it's just data collection and then it's sort of like an empty exercise and then people say that they've done outreach. That's what I've seen. Thanks, Darcy. Anyone else want to share or reflect? Could you scroll down to the lowest horizontal bar quick? I just, I didn't finish reading that. Thank you. I mean, I guess I think that lower right quadrant that's really exciting too. I mean, just hearing, I agree, this is really exciting. This gels a lot of concepts, particularly that, you know, if the result is like this deep economic environmental lift, then that's, I'd love to hold everything we want to do to that lower right square there. No, sir. Have me shift it. I think there will be time, you know, this is a jumping off point. So there'll be time to really digest this more and talk about it more. I was really thrilled to find this as well because when you have something that's so visual and so clear and where you can really line up, okay, what are we doing and how does that match up with what message we're sending and what result we may get. It can be incredibly helpful. And, you know, what typically is done in most towns and organizations falls really somewhere in this two and three, providing information and gathering input, you know. And these messages here, we will keep you informed. We care what you think. Those sound okay. Those sit sort of in my gut more easily. But when you come up and look at the impact words here of placation and tokenization, that hits really differently. And so to sort of look at where sort of what's considered acceptable or even generous and see that it's really not actually where we want to be and look at possibilities of what could be and trying to position ourselves to move this line can be really exciting. So yeah, I hope that we can continue to digest this information and we can send out the case studies that went along with this. They were really pretty extraordinary. And maybe this is something that comes later, you know, once we get further along in our process. But something that I wonder question I have is like, for number three, four and five here, are there situations? Sometimes I feel like there may be a situation where the community wants to delegate, like they want the government, like we don't want to put everything on the community members, right? It's driving to make the government or take action. And so I was just wondering if there's not over burdening the community. Yeah, situations where, you know, the community has ownership and decided they want to make sure they have a voice, but they want this branch of government or this person to do the action and we will hold them accountable. I think that the defer to doesn't necessarily mean the community does all the work. I think it means more like you see here the foster democratic participation and equity by placing full decision making in the hands of the community. But it doesn't say placing full responsibility for action in the hands of the community. So it's not that the community has to get out there and hammer everything out, but that when a decision is going to be made, the community is having the ability to really understand what they're being asked and then to respond with a yes, no, this, this is what is good for our community. We need more time. We need more information or no, this, you know, this is not work. Ashwin, do you have thoughts on that question? Yeah, yeah, I can jump in there to try to address that too. So Laura, I think your point is really well taken that there is a certain reading of the defer to column that almost amounts to the government abdicating its responsibilities to do what it's supposed to do. And that's obviously not what we want. And that's not the reading that I would obviously encourage us to have of that column. And I think part of the way that you get around that is by really focusing on that bottom right cell, where you actually resource the process and fund the participation of community members and leaders in key moments of the decision process. So what that means is rather than creating, you also want to think about the barriers to participation, right? Rather than having a meeting that's in the center of town during the day, you bring pizza to the public housing development and have and pay to young people that live in the unit to facilitate it with you, right? So that's where that bottom right cell is absolutely essential. And I would argue that none of this works without that kind of staffing and community resource to fund leaders to do this work. That's helpful, thanks. Thanks, Ashwin. So that leads pretty perfectly into, you know, due to a national and local history of exclusion, many Amherstown residents have been discouraged from participating in ways that are often hidden to those who are planning or seeking participation. So those pretty hefty details of has a person been compensated? Is it at a time of day where they can access it? Are they seeing themselves reflected in leadership that Ashwin was touching on? Are sometimes not at the forefront of our thoughts when we're seeking participation and feeling like I held a meeting, why did nobody come? So this is an effort to increase our awareness and understand these barriers and how to begin to use the understanding to repair the broken trust or the folks who have been discouraged from participation or who maybe have not ever known there was the option to participate and to seek to incorporate best practices into our interaction with the community. So Ashwin's going to talk a bit about environmental justice as a framing for this. Yeah, so I've been pretty darn distracted over the last few days between my day job and like doing organizing around what's been happening in the country. But thank you for the introduction to this stuff. I was going to speak about environmental justice which has an important history that's relevant to this work and I think it's important to think kind of specifically about as we move forward with this and try to operationalize some of these principles for the specific stuff that we are trying to work on with the community and with community leaders. And I know that people on this committee have different levels of background thinking about environmental justice. I know that the term at least is not unfamiliar to anybody. You know the environmental justice movement emerged in the late 70s and early 80s as black leaders explicitly started to organize around the unequal impacts of environmental pollution on black communities. We're talking places like Warren County, North Carolina where famously and kind of monumentally the black community responded to the siting of a hazardous waste facility there and began to kick off a movement that was known as environmental justice which for the first time mitted together issues around civil rights and environmentalism. And this is really huge and it led to policy changes at the EPA it's at the state level and at the local level in different parts of the country. And without going there's a lot of resources I could recommend to learn about that history if you're interested. But I think crucially what we saw in the next 20 years was a global climate justice movement that really started to innovatively link issues around racism, white supremacy, inequality, structural disinvestment from marginalized communities to international climate change and really sought to connect racism, economic inequality and climate change mitigation through international collaboration. And one cool thing is that we're seeing a lot of that stuff that started to get in the U.S., moved internationally, start to really land in the United States right now in the form of talks about the Green New Deal. And right now here in Massachusetts an emerging call for a green stimulus in response to COVID. And this type of policy platform and proposal really focuses on making in the green stimulus language for example I'm happy to share this class students in the form of a letter that's going to be going to the governor pretty soon, making health a top priority for all people with no exceptions, providing economic relief at the state level directly to the people to rescue workers and communities rather than corporate executives and to make a quote down payment on a regenerative economy while preventing future crises and protecting our democratic processes along the way. A lot of black leadership in Massachusetts is working on this and there's actually a sunrise movement event on how the climate movement can show up for black lives tomorrow that I have the link to and I can send that around. I shared it with maybe not all of you. I think I might have actually you know Stephanie so it makes sense that it didn't go out but I'll share that I guess with all of you after this too because I think it would be great for us to participate in that if we can. But so anyway in this context as we move into conversations with community leaders about these issues I think it's really important to explicitly surface connections between material issues that affect people and what has traditionally been seen as kind of the purview of environmentalists. So this includes things like housing, paying your rent, your relationship with your landlord, being able to access state programs for solar panels, energy efficiency upgrades, etc that kind of come out of those conversations, paying you your utility bill, finding and accessing healthy food and affordable transit, stuff that people deal with on a daily basis and I think that our job is to understand these connections, have conversations with community leaders that are about these types of daily material issues and then our task is to connect them to climate policy and to the town's approach to dealing with climate change. That's I think where a big part of our job comes in and to approach these conversations in an open way that allows for those daily issues to rise to the top I think will be really important. Finally I just want to make an explicit check about the relationship between policing and climate change. There's a strong one. You've heard a lot of talk in the media in the last week about looting but I want to emphasize and be clear that the police in this country are the real looters. Many municipalities have up to 50% of their budgets going towards police. Here in Amherst police and other public safety get 18% of the budget up from 14% eight years ago. Meanwhile community service budgets for health senior citizens and other matters have been stagnant at about 2% of the budget. We need to defund the police across the country and take the money that they are stealing from communities to enact violence on black and brown people to build a world that is resilient to climate. We should put this on the table with community leaders as something that we can actually talk about. I know that there's certain people you know on the council and in the staff of the municipality too that would be quick to point out that certain budgets come from certain processes and are attached to certain strings and certain types of commitments and it's very difficult procedurally to switch them up and I would just like to emphasize that right now it's absolutely vital that we not let those types of barriers get in the way of what's happening because our country is on fire and we're in a moment of rebellion and people are demanding a real reallocation of resources. So with that I really look forward to the conversation we're about to have about how to really put some of these issues bring these issues to life in our strategies and words that we're going to bring to community leaders and partners. Thank you. Thank you Eshwin so much. Does anyone want to say anything before I move to the next section? All right I'm just going to share next piece. So as Eshwin said we have an opportunity to really look at the way that we're interacting and start really with how we talk how we show up and how we carry ourselves from the invitation all the way through any part of the process and that taking the time to intentionally acknowledge that we're not just here to talk about things that for many community leaders are going to feel really disconnected from their daily lives but we're here to really see how all of it is connected and that looking at the day-to-day of someone's life is vitally important in in the work that we're doing as a town. So as many of you have experienced in other group settings many groups make agreements or group norms or agreements and as we have an existing relationship with many of our community members that has been based on this history of exclusion I really feel that having group agreements could be really helpful in beginning to demonstrate that there's an intention to to repair and rebuild these relationships. So several of these group agreements reflect and acknowledge how cultural and personal differences can lead to miscommunications and disengagement from participation. I'll go through them briefly and again these are things that will have time to digest and then we can share questions, thoughts or additions that feel important. I've collected these from several different sources two of the main sources are created equal which is a curriculum on class and tips from working class activists on the website class matters. So to the left you'll see the agreement and then there's a quote for most of them reflecting on why this agreement could be important and then to the right there's some ideas about how to put this agreement into action so it becomes more than just words. So the first one is put relationships first. This leader Raul Quiñones Rosado says whether in Puerto Rico or in the US the more educated someone is the more they tend to be educated in white culture logical and linear and the more they move away from indigenous and African ways of thinking. So the models of struggle tend to be what's the strategy get down to the tasks with less attention to relationships and less tolerance for circular thinking. So you know some of the ways that we can put this this intention into action are to put time into relationship building activities. Many of us experience in so much of our work just this we need to get something done we need to get straight to work and and we often skip over the building of relationships and there are opportunities to do activities that are really not in order to get the plan written right now as important as it is but are are intended to say let's connect with you and see who you are and build a relationship with you first and throughout. And then the other action idea for this one is to just continue to relate abstract concepts back to real life. So how would this affect you? What does this look like at your house? What does this make you think about? You know because some of these abstract concepts that we talk about as if they are familiar to everyone may not be something that really resonates for someone and so to really draw them out and create a desire to know how it impacts them. The next one is touches on that same concept and it's watching your language. George Lakey said it went on and on talking in a way that was abstract, competitive, abstract, unrelated to my life experience. So some ideas for this is checking your rate of speech. I personally even contend to speed up when I'm trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about and some people just have a fast rate of speech because they they are fast thinkers and slowing down our rate of speech can be helpful for everyone especially with just just how much we all have on our minds right now. Committing to regular schedule of checking in, you know, does anyone have any thoughts? Anyone have any questions? Anyone have a story that this brings up? Creating pauses and we could consider you know establishing nonverbal signals that can be used when someone wants to indicate that they'd like us to slow down or to give a definition of a term and also just to keep an eye on how many you know how much terminology you're using. I for one have to do a lot of checks for understanding with Jim and Lauren after these meetings because oftentimes half of the words are ones that are completely new to me and I've been reading a ton about this as much as I can. So just keeping an eye on how much terminology you use. Step up, step back. If you tend to be quiet, share more. If you tend to talk a lot, share less. A really important way to participate is sometimes to create pockets of silence for folks who wouldn't feel comfortable inserting themselves when there's rapid fire conversation. And one of the actions for that is not so much a time limit but a reminder to folks that they may want to pause and give the floor to someone else even specifically offering to someone who you haven't heard from. Hey so and so is there something you want to share and allowing ourselves to leave pauses longer than even feels needed or comfortable can be really helpful. Keep it private, don't pry. So as we're we're opening up to people's personal experiences we want to be careful not to make it too much of a asking them to divulge all of their personal experiences. I find this that's far in my efforts to get involved with town. Sometimes I want to say I need this and then I feel asked to share a personal story or to to become very emotional and private, you know, share private things that I that actually make it more uncomfortable for me to be participating. And I think that we need to just remind ourselves that we don't need proof when somebody asks for something. When they state a need, you know, we don't need to ask them to tell us how difficult it's been. And first one here, yeah, just work against that power dynamic or belief that people of color or those with financial insecurity are inherently untrustworthy or trying to work the system. I've experienced this personally a lot in the sense COVID when I've been going to get the lunches that the school provides for my kiddo. Having people ask me, you know, do you really need it when there have been extra lunches and I've offered to take them to neighbors asking, you know, how many children are in their home, just asking me to prove that I'm not trying to take advantage of the lunch system, which, you know, for me just makes me want to not get the lunch at all. And demonstrating trust by, yeah, just not asking for someone to prove it. Next one, listen to learn. So paying special attention to cultural differences, what people value, different ways of doing things, and different priorities or hierarchy of needs. And really paying special attention to some of the ways in which what can seem like a good thing can actually create harm. You know, for example, talking about the need to buy local to a family whose primary food sources is canned from a food pantry, or there was an example in a community where the effort to ban plastic bags was going to really negatively impact families who were using plastic bags as rain boots for their kiddos. Here's some actions that can be important. You know, taking the step to introduce yourself with or add your pronouns to your Zoom name, your name tag, your email signature, committing to asking lots of questions. How does participation with the government authority work or feel for you? What types of activities work for you? What type of food is best for you? What are your best days and times? Is video an option for your family? Are there certain buildings in town that are more or less comfortable? Does this mitigation goal help or hurt? So those are some ideas. Any thoughts? Next, Ashwin, we're going to take a look at the stakeholders. Let me see if I can, do you want me to pull those up? If you have it handy, I have to look for a second here. Sorry. It's coming. It's super tiny, so I'll see what I can do to... This is a hard doc to share on here, but just let me know. I guess everyone doesn't have this, right? It did come out in the email from Stephanie, so just guide me, Ashwin, how you went. Right, so I think the purpose of this conversation then is to hear back actually from each of the sector task groups to talk us through as a group who's on this list and what your thought process was around who to include. And that way we can all have our eyes on it and make sure that we are not being redundant with each other and also just put all of our heads together to examine the negative space and to make sure that we really are covering all of the different constituencies that we want to cover across the groups. Just because I think having thought about this, we want to make sure that we're not missing anyone important. So, yeah, Darcy. I just wanted to say that even though I was able to... Stephanie sent out a document, she said it was editable. I tried to edit it. It seemed like it was editing, but then it didn't save. And then it said read only. So my edits are not in there. Okay, thanks for letting us know that. So when it comes to your group, maybe you can just talk us through what you have in there and then we can work together to make sure that those changes are reflected. Does that sound good? Yeah, is anyone able to be to actually edit it in real time here or not? I'm looking at an Excel spreadsheet rather than like a Google sheet. Right. Google sheet, I'm not aware of it. But that's it. I believe that I ended up sharing it in Excel because people were having difficulties getting into the Google spreadsheet, but I'm happy to try that again. I believe it was shared with the committee as a Google spreadsheet and people were having difficulty. So I sent it along as an Excel. Well, maybe one way to do this is, Ghaziqai, if this would work for you, and especially if other people have their documents open in front of them, is as people share and as we discuss and as we kind of decide to make additions, changes, et cetera, could you just keep track of them in your Excel sheet and then... Absolutely. That'll be sort of the master copy. Cool. Does anyone want to go first? I was in the land use group, so we could go first as kind of an example. I was in that group with Steve and Jim. Right? Okay. Cool. So I'm going to try to just jump off here and if I miss anything, please add on. But basically, we tried to think about the town of Amherst in terms of the major land use categories. So you've got forests, you've got agriculture, and you've got urban areas. And then we tried to think of key stakeholders in each of those different areas. And what you see here is a list that I think reflects that. We tried to be attentive to issues around class, for example, by having worker, agricultural workers, perhaps through the Pioneer Valley Workers Center on this list. We tried to also think about urban trees. We tried to think about the colleges and the university that are in the town because those are major land use kind of categories that have their own purviews. We also tried to think about farms and farmers. So that was kind of how we thought about this. And this is the list of we thought about 10, about 15-ish maybe, stakeholders would sort of be appropriate. And that was kind of our starting point. And what you'll see in the sheet that we have specific names attached to some of the groups, but not others. I don't know if Jim or Steve, you want to jump in to add anything to that? No, I think you covered it. We were pretty clear about trying to reach a number of different constituencies, some of which were sort of obvious and played big roles. Others which played big roles, but were not as obvious and certainly were not as engaged in town activity. So I think it sort of covered the range. Cool. So I guess I'd be totally interested to hear if others have any feedback on this list, just looking at it right now while we have each other here. I think that's kind of the purpose of this is just get our eyes on it in real time. Darcy? I had suggested to you the possibility of adding the climate action now, food forest and farms group, either Carol Horowitz or Lenore Glazer, both of whom live in Amherst and they are, you know, so they already have the connection between climate and carbon sequestration and stuff like that. And I also thought of the possibility of someone from NOFA, Northeast Organic Farmers. So I don't know if you considered that or, oh, you're adding them good. That's why we're having this discussion is to make sure that we get a chance. Can you repeat the names for climate action now? Yeah, they were Carol Horowitz or Lenore Glazer, our leaders of that group, and they're very, very active. They're, they're, you know, sponsoring a whole set of workshops on food forests and farms that's going on right now and NOFA, Northeast Organic Farmers Association. I don't have a contact person, but Carol and Lenore would definitely be able to tell you someone. Yeah, the contact person can be Carol Rosal, C-A-R-O-R-O-Z-E-L-L. I just mentioned that Caitlin Marquise, who you have on the list, I didn't, she was at the Ag Commission meeting the same night I went there and so we've all, she's aware of what we're doing, so there's already a loose connection there and she was sounded very eager to collaborate. Yeah, that's great. Caitlin was one of the people who was involved in MVP, the MVP work, and has been part of, sort of, has participated in the conversations for a little while. She's really great. The other quick question I have is, I heard as you were coming up with the group categories, I guess you had the rural, the urban, or the forest ag and urban, and I'm curious if there was any designation of the kind of suburban and edgy kind of land use, like park-like, the, you know, like, sort of open space in, you know, that's, I don't know, I don't know exactly how to describe it, I think of like the sort of suburban open space edgy stuff. I think parks and playgrounds and community gardens will come up from the community leaders probably. I would suggest Bernard Brennan from Amethyst Farm and you've got Syntagons here twice and we think that her main interests right now that are relevant to us is around solar and so they should, she should probably not be asked by three different task groups. We should decide where to ask her. Yeah, why, why this group of land use? Yeah, how did you determine which, which businesses to add here? Came from the committee. Uh, uh, Cinda in land use seems like a obvious choice but I understand she has other interests and we could, certainly one could ask her, sorry. Right, but I mean we have a lot of people in town that would be land use. I'm not, I'm not opposed to having Cinda but I just, I saw she's listed like a lot of times on these lists. We didn't, we didn't try to filter down the list. We, I think just tried to add all the possible names that we could think of and we certainly didn't look at other lists and the other subcommittees to make, to look for over asking. I think that's the next step. I mean that said, I think Darcy's bringing up an important point and I'm actually persuaded that that is a bit of, that did take an arbitrary decision there and that we should step back and consider whether or not this is a person that represents a constituency that we want to include in this process as a priority. I would actually recommend putting a placeholder that says business and going back to the drawing board on trying to figure out a way to get, be more representative there. If anyone has an idea about how to do that right now that would be great. I'm, I don't have, I'm kind of, I'm too uninformed to really do that. I wonder if there's someone here that I think does, that it does feel like they have a better sense of how to think about that. Well I think there's, Cinda wears a lot of hats, right? So she's listed actually in this group twice but I think her hat that's most relevant to this group is that she's, her family is one of the largest landowners, private landowners of Massachusetts, correct? The largest after the Commonwealth. So I think that you should definitely be in land use and potentially also in energy because I think there's going to be a lot of overlap there between how our land is used and her land is used for solar, right? And that's created a lot of strife in our community before, right? Yeah. I don't think she should probably, she probably doesn't need to be here representing her business and she probably doesn't need to be in the buildings group, which is another one she's listed in. Yeah, I just say for the buildings group, I think if anyone, it should be Evan Jones, which is who's her brother who runs the, the, runs coals, runs coals, the lumber yard. And when we get to our group, I can explain why, how we came to that. Cool, okay, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, I think in that case let's keep Cinder Jones as a land use stakeholder. But yeah, I think Laura, you're right that the business side doesn't make as much sense. So let's remove that if Steve and Jim, you're in agreement about that. Yes, that's fine. Sorry, what do you want written there? You got it, just land use for Cinder Jones or landowner I think is the thing to say in that. Okay, in the interest of Tyler, that was helpful, even and also just to kind of put this out there so everyone's kind of looked at it and we can prove that everyone has spent a little at least a minute kind of looking at each other's lists. If other ideas come to people, please let, I guess me and Steve know, and we can make adjustments. Jesse, do you want to go next for buildings? Sure. And Sarah interrupt me at any moment, you see fit, but we did a similar thing. We tried to come up with categories. So we had our categories were schools K through 12 housing, municipal, commercial education, pedagogy and education facilities, both of being in higher ed, building, builders, architects, building materials, which is where Evan Jones think kind of an interesting potential like how do people access materials for low carbon construction. And then there was a couple of people on the list whose demographic was they have consistently expressed an interest in being on this group specifically. And we want to really respect that and and open our arms to them. So those were our groups and I'm now looking at how so one of the challenges that we had and I think is that we simply don't know everyone on this group on this list. And I think that was for me that was like just the challenge of just not knowing everyone. But I think as I see the way it's been summarized here, it looks to me like you've given us like a nice, broad swath of groups. I just wanted to bring attention to someone noted that this individual Ludmilla has been mentioned in two groups. Yeah, under and I talked about her for the energy group, but actually thought she probably would make more sense in the building group. But we can discuss that. Yeah, she probably makes more sense in the building group would be mine. Yeah, I think so take. Yep. I'm also just from buildings I mean at UMass, I think probably a better target than sort of sustainability. People there are the the BCT the building construction technology group. They have a lot to offer in terms of building design building efficiency building materials in the case of Peggy Clouston, for example, who really works on CLT was that stand for console cross laminated timber. Can you say what what should go in this again? Well, I'm thinking there may be instead of the sustainability, which is not really defined is more UMass of BCT, which is building construction technology. So we have Peggy and Ben from BCT. I wonder if just eliminating Ezra small from the list. Yeah, yeah, I would. I think either Peggy or Ben would be more useful to the group. Useful to the group. Yeah. Oh yeah, Peggy Clouston there as well underneath. Yeah. Okay. I remember that Ben had come up in some of the background documents because he runs the clean energy core at UMass, which does free audits. And I think that's where that came from. Yep. Are we taking Ezra off? I think I think that's a good move. Yeah, besides he's very busy. Ezra knows all about the parking lots. He could be useful in the energy group. Could be more so the energy side. I mean, I'm not sure also if we're specifically trying to target Amherst resident people as well. Ezra's not. Peggy I think is. Ben's not, but might be fine. So do we want Peggy up with that buildings construction technology or do we want to keep? It's the same thing that you have. Okay. So maybe we just take this UMass building construction tech off and leave the UMass science screen with the Peggy. I have a comment about the buildings. As I look at the whole list, you know, I feel like there needs to be a balance of, I know that we have four community leaders, but it seems like we need, I don't see anyone who is like a climate activist in there, except maybe Chris Riddle. And so it seems too weighted toward academics and business. And so I guess I'm trying to think of maybe we should have someone again from the Hitchcock Center because they were involved in the zero net energy push. So there might, we might be able to get a person there. Chris was on the zero net energy task force. I don't know, should we have another person from zero net energy task force on there? Because that is. Lydia is on there. Oh, Lydia also. I didn't see her down there. Lydia also was a part of the MVP process, as was Chris. Right. So one, I guess I just, if it's weighted too heavily, one way or the other, I would consider potentially taking people off the list rather than adding more people to the list. I think I'm, am I counting right that there's 20 right now? So I'm just not sure how to manage 20 people in this process. So a piece of the community leader piece is that it's possible that not all of the community leaders will be able to participate. So there's a little bit of buffering there. Got you. I'm not going to get all of these people. On the other hand, I really do think that community leader piece is extremely important in buildings and especially with like housing. I don't know exactly how to think about this either, but I really think it would be great to have people that represent the affordable housing developments, and places where a lot of people live that might not be involved at all, but you know, could really speak to issues around utility bills, issues around efficiency upgrades, could really, who have just super relevant experience to this stuff. You know, I mean, I know that there's a lot of people in Amherst that live in these places. I don't know who the community leaders are. Maybe some of them are living in these places, but I think that would be really good. I can try to find out how to One lives in public housing. The other three live in apartment complexes. Okay, cool. At Ashwin's point maybe is we have the Amherst Housing Authority, but are there any landlords of these housing, be them public housing or private housing apartments where diverse community members live, landlords that might be in a position to join us? I know that Caitlin's done some connecting with the folks at South Point, so I wonder if that would be a question we could ask Caitlin to see if there's any openness that's one of the big complexes, but I think that's a good question. And do we know if the, is there any organization of, is there any renter organization or maybe even from the UMass students perspective like a organization of student renters? Not that I'm aware of when I was reaching out to the affordable housing trust. I was referred to some folks in Springfield and Holyoke, but I wasn't given any connections here. I know that the GEO has, you know, went through a lot with the closing of North Village and they are continuing to advocate for, you know, the university is now making sort of contracts with some of the local apartment complexes to rehouse North Village residents. So possibly there's someone there. I'll make a note to reach out to Ezra. I don't think he's the right fit for this group, but he may know of some student, and we talked, Ashwin, you brought this up last time, which was a good point that we should have students represented where we can. He may know some students that are interested in this. I think a good organization to reach out to for that is Amherst Family Outreach. They have worked with, for instance, you know, the owners of some of the complexes in order to get space to have the homework club. So they may have some ideas for us, and I forget her name, the social worker who runs it. It would be great if she could be involved. UMass has an off-campus student services office, which I think helps students find places to live. It also interacts with landlords, and I don't have a recent contact there. I have a name and number from 2017, but it's off-campus student life. Phone number is, anybody want to take the phone number down? Here we go. 413-577-2187. And it seems like I get notices from them occasionally. I have a small house that I rent, and I've listed with them before, and I get notices about, you know, warnings before party weekends and a few things like that. So they did do some outreach to landlords and to UMass students that live off-campus. Okay, and in the interest of time, maybe we move on from this group. Yeah, Jesse, I hear you about not wanting to necessarily add people to the list, but I think we won't necessarily get everybody, and we may have to adjust as we get started. We may find holes as we start. So I would suggest asking Evan and Chris for their suggestions for increasing the diversity in terms of the local businesses. Like, which one should you choose? They'll have ideas of what each of those might bring, and you can choose that way. So just have one of them. Should we go down to the next one? Sorry, Andrew and Dwayne, you guys are electricity right? Yeah, not sure why. Oh, the landfill project. So not all of these are people. In fact, mostly they're not. I think we'll want input from Stephanie's, the one who oversees the emmerced solar landfill. She could fill us in who we need to bring in. If we want to get information, I would take them off the list. I think we should talk about who at the DPW each group wants, because they also reappear, and I'm really not sure myself who at DPW would be appropriate for energy. Would it be the person who procures energy for the town? I think that's that's not DPW. Oh, yeah, so that would facilities. Yeah, I don't think that doesn't really make that much sense to have DPW. I don't think, but maybe. I don't know. Well, it was somewhat, I think we understood our group was specifically electricity, and then the energy with regard to transportation and heating was more on the, well, the heating was more on the building side. So that's where I don't, we had sort of Cerner and Noonan here at the bottom of our list. I'm not sure if that belongs here. There's this overlap with the buildings, because I think we put them there, because, well, they're primarily oil companies, so that's serving more buildings, but at the same time, they're both also into heat pumps and a supplier of electrification. So that's also buildings, but it's also electricity. So that's an unavoidable overlap. So I think we have to discuss that in terms of which group that stakeholder group sort of fits in. I think it probably makes sense to look at both lists together right now and just make sure that we aren't between them excluding any key actors that we want to talk to. And then the other thing to do is like if the buildings group is talking to residents of public housing, make sure to ask them about their electric bill. Make sure to ask them about electricity issues too, even though you're the buildings group, because those people are only going to be meeting with one of the groups. And if they're meeting with buildings, make sure to ask about electricity. If they're meeting, conversely, if someone is meeting with the electricity group, but they also are relevant for heating and gas, ask them about that too. And let's just make sure we have everyone somewhere and then we ask everyone everything relevant. Yeah, I think that goes to Ashwin. Thank you for bringing that up that all of the community leaders are really to be considered as speaking to all of the issues. And we really want to encourage you to, if something is shared that doesn't fit within your sector, to really commit to saying, that's a really important point. And I am going to bring that to the appropriate sector group because there's not someone from public housing on each sector group. We need to hear from all of them on all of the subjects. So you can delete the Synta Jones line because she's going to... Well, did we make that decision? I mean, truthfully, I think she's really land use for solar development and sort of a perspective from her perspective, which is obviously when it comes to solar development in Massachusetts is pretty visible. I think that will come out in the land use group. Just make sure that you talk with her about where you'd like her to build her solar. Yeah, totally. That's a great example. We in the land use group will want to make sure to make a note of that. The reason she's into solar development is because she's a land owner. Yeah. So diversified construction is one of the businesses also under... That actually should be renamed because really the solar developer there is Hyperion Systems, which is a spin out, if you will, or much of it's a subsidiary. But that Hyperion Systems is the solar company that works on small scale solar and agriculture. So we want to have Amherst people as much as possible. Definitely, we want the majority of the task group to be Amherst. I hope other task groups will also. But in some cases, we might go as far as the neighboring community and consider Pelham. Almost Amherst if we need to. So at PV squared, we would invite Karen Ribeiro, I would say. So she's already there. Yeah, Darcy. Yeah, I think that a major conversation is obliously going to be community choice aggregation. And so we want to make sure that there are enough people in this group who understand what it is. No. Trari, I think we're going to need all of them to understand what it is. Oh, absolutely. But I think we need some, you know, some core people there. Well, you're going to be on it and Dwayne, obviously, and that's why we chose you to. But Karen, then she understands. And that's it, right? I knew we were talking earlier today, and Dwayne and I agree that this is the place where CCA will intersect with the ECAC work. And we haven't really found a comfortable way except to, you know, have enough of us knowing about it to integrate it. And I think that this will be where we integrate it into the climate resilience action plan. Does it make sense to people? Yeah, that does. I think though. So I do think it's important to have at least a few people on this committee that are this task group that can speak and explain to it. But I mean, to have ownership of that within this whole task group, that's going to need to be the step, right? Actually being able to explain it and get people on board and understand how it impacts, particularly members in our community, because I think that that's the part that can be confusing. So I don't think it's necessarily that we need to pad this group with CCA people, but rather make sure the CCA people that we have in this group are going to be able to do the work to bring the rest of the group along, right? Yeah. So it would be great to have one of the students. It's Saho who has. Is there somebody else on the CCA group that you want to have? Because there's no one on this list, right? It just says CCA community member. Well, Dwayne and I are both in the CCA group. Sam Tittleman, it's possible that Sam Tittleman would be willing to come too. He lives in Amherst. No, he would go on the CCA community member. Yeah. T-I-T-E-L-M-A-N. Thank you. So who gets Dave Zomek? If we can get him to come to anything. He'll come. He'll come to one of them. I mean, I think you had him on land use as well, right? Oh, did I was it? Yeah. Yeah, he might be more likely to come to that. And same thing with Christine Breastrup, the planning director. Makes sense for her to go to the land use, right? Or maybe here. What do you think? I think you'd be really good for us to have someone in the planning department. And I think there's only two of them, isn't that right? It's not a big group. We can always ask, we can always reach out to Dave and say these are the two groups that we want someone to be represented in. Can you help us figure out who the right person is? Right, because it seems like there probably is somebody in facilities who is the person who might look at, you know, putting a solar canopy on the middle and high school parking lot and figure out all the engineering parts of it. So maybe we need to rely on Stephanie to figure out where the staff people go in our test groups. So, John Fable is a co-housing resident. We were also thinking of River Strong, who also knows CCA. I don't know how we're going to decide these things. Yeah, River. I think in situations where we have more than one person that could fill the same role, I think we just start with one. And if that person can't do it, we... I would think River would probably be a better option than John Fable, I think just in terms of providing useful insights. But I think John would be great if River isn't able to do it. What's the last name? Strong. And just for the record, Fable is B-E-L. And I'm not quite sure why a co-housing resident was on the list. You mentioned someone who had a project going that you thought was interesting, but you couldn't remember. Oh yeah, that's right. They've also had experience with trying to do solar and a lot of them have done heat pumps now. It's not about having a co-housing person. You can just delete that one. I never did remember. And then did you say a specific high school student? Yeah, I think I would start with Saho. Can you spell that for me? S-E-O-H-O. What's her last name? Lynn. Lee. Lee, L-E-E. Rudy would be amazing to have. He could go in a lot of different places. I love how he joined. Let's keep him here. Molly Goran-Watz is her last name. Where does that one go? She's the PVPC person, but I don't know what her specialty is. I don't think it's energy. So she just lives in Amherst and works at PVPC. Sorry. Oh, this Molly Goran-Watz. Yeah, got it. I think she's, yeah, I forget her exact title. You mass battery project. That was just an idea. Lane? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if the person who sort of directs facilities would be the contact person, but I don't know where he lives. I don't know to what extent he'd be able to spend the time with us. I mean, to some extent, I feel pretty comfortable talking about that project. Okay. And we can always bring people in. Yeah. It's not like we can't have anybody else come. So take that one off. Yeah, I'm excited about having someone from the fire department. I hope we can get somebody. And Don Allison has a strong interest in renewables. He's actually a lawyer for one of the big developers in town. And is certainly familiar with the CCA. Yes, that's right. So then the idea of having Serner or Noon in was that they're both, you know, oil delivery. But also thinking about diversifying which is something that we need everyone to be thinking about. So do you like the idea of having one of them? I think I don't know about Noon in, but I know Serner has diversified. I'm sure they're eager to serve as much as the market and heat pumps as they can get. So it would be, I think, really helpful to have them to, again, either in the buildings or us, but to really hear about, you know, from a business perspective, how what would have been the challenges and prospects for heat pumps as they see it right now in the community. Yeah, maybe we could put one in each. The, yeah, Noon in has also, you know, they definitely are are installing heat pumps. My heat pump is from Noon in and hot water heaters. Do you guys have a preference? Who goes in which one? We'll go with Serner because Dwayne uses their services. Only because my wife is a birder and no Scott Serner who's a big birder. And you mentioned today, what's her name? Baker. Oh, Aaron Baker. Yeah, I mean, if you want to, another sort of academic thinker, very, very, very familiar with energy, energy markets, very engaged in sort of equity, equity lens in some of this. And she's a professor in engineering at UMass. She lives in town as well. Sounds good. Yep. Sorry, that's not working to paste that in, but I'll just write it in. It was, we put Noon in here. Yeah. Okay. And then that last name that you just said. It was Aaron, E-R-E-E-R-I-N, a Baker. And she's from UMass. And I just want to do a little time check for everyone because Ashwin and I have a few more things to get to. Yeah, can we, can we move on to transportation and spend on that before making sure that we have a little, a few minutes to also get to our kind of next steps? So this is Darcy and I, we went over it together last week. Ours is a little challenging because we have a sort of a couple different, particularly transportation and waste and health and communications kind of all went into one. So we have a large list. And there was already some edits, right? That Darcy that you added that we can make sure that we don't have to, I don't think we need to add right this second because I can add based on your email. Right. John Root said that he wasn't going to be participating so we can take him off. And Zero Waste Amherst is going to be Brenda Davies, not Christina Platt. And the Hitchcock Center, Jessica Schultz. She's the waste person. And we had said Wheelhouse, Wheelhouse Catering or Cushman, I think she has a C in there, a C-H. Atkins is actually one of the drivers for the sustainability festival to or not sustainability, the taste of Amherst to have that be waste-free. Really? Yeah. Interesting. What was that? Atkins. You can ask Stephanie about that, she knows. Right. And we have Amherst Cinema there because they're spearheading the green block of Amherst Cinema to Amherst Coffee. And we were going to separate PVPC and PVTA so we have someone from each. You know Darcy, I made all those changes so they must be on the, maybe they didn't make it onto this Excel, but I did go through your email very carefully, made all those changes, so my apologies. Okay. Yeah, so it's somewhere. And I think we added a few, but I can't remember what they are. We added some more to transportation because that is, yeah, so if they're on some other list then we can. Yeah, my apologies. Yeah, maybe just let if there's anybody that has a quick thought on someone else or some other group that we should add to this. I think Casey Taylor in particular Darcy is a member of your district who is disabled and uses public transportation, but we did feel like we were maybe missing. You had mentioned a writer advocate. Riber, yeah, and we think that some of our public health groups would also serve in that role. And similarly, we're hoping that some of our, like Amherst Cinema, for example, you know, and Cushman and like, they should all have thoughts on transportation as well. So Darcy, Casey Taylor, I've not been able to get in touch with, so if you have any resources for getting in touch with Casey and Angela doesn't have any luck. I asked her and she said that she was, she really is very excited about doing it. Yeah, it's just that the email we have is not working. So if you have any way to get in touch, then make sure and let me know. So she, okay, I do have an email, but, but her, maybe we can talk later. Okay, and we also talked about getting someone from the town who would be involved in, you know, setting up EV infrastructure. So we could, you know, have discussions about chargers and where they are and where they need to be, et cetera. Can't remember what else, but I think we, because he has it on a list. Yeah, let me just, I'll go back to your email and double check that you've mentioned everything. Could, I don't know if this is the right place. I know we're running short on time. I'm wondering if I could make a small fussy formatting request, which would be to, I'm noticing that the, to have the names, the individuals names all be in one column and the organization's names all be in a second column. I think that's, that just helped my brain see it a little better. Yeah, I actually liked the way you organized it also, Jesse, according to, to businesses, you know, academics. At this point, you each could make your own, you know, organized list for your sector too. If there's a particular way that I'm happy to, you know, adjust to anybody's, but you could do that as well. We know, Jesse's brain is where it's at. Darcy, it looks like you also were wondering about mothers out front. Right, yes. I just, you know, I, I found that, I found that mothers out front was, was lacking from the overall list. And that it, they could fit in in a lot of different places. But if we want them to fit in with their mother hats on, they might be in public health. And then it looks like you had Veronica Blanchard. Right, for, for Waste. Yep. She's the regional recycling coordinator type person. Yeah, I don't know. I don't, yeah, I don't know. She's, yeah, I guess so. Does she live in there? And then you asked about if the schools have a climate position and provide someone from the schools. Yeah. And I don't know whether, I think we probably, if it's either or, I think that we need somebody from DPW. Veronica would be very helpful. But I think Amy Rossecki is, is also needed. You're not going to have meetings where you cover all four topics at the same meeting, right? Well, you tell us how to do it, Andra. Can't imagine. We couldn't figure out, you know, we, Laura and I did discuss that we really don't know how this is going to happen. If we can't have breakout, Zoom breakout groups. I mean, I'm sure that it'd be great to have everybody in the room every once in a while, but got some really specific and different things to talk about. Right. No, we did talk about like having a whole meeting for an hour and then, and then having a second meeting for the breakout groups, because, you know, because we can't, I don't know how that would work with posting the meetings. It would be a nightmare. Yeah. And so I think we might wait and see how other groups get on with our first meeting and learn from that. I'm also hoping maybe it's an offline conversation between Darcy and myself and Jim and his team about innovative ways to facilitate some of this, because I don't want the conversation to be dominated. And we may do the first meeting one way and then do the next meeting another way. Yeah, we didn't even mention the fact that we also have green infrastructure on our list. Actually on land use in natural systems, which makes more sense. It is. And I'm not sure that we have good represent, good coverage of that. But we can, I think we can revisit that because I feel like that might be a relevant person from the town type of conversation. Yeah, we also have some consultant expertise through niche engineering on that topic for the group. We should help. Yeah, for sure. But in terms of outreach for what it will mean, what that expertise will mean for community members and generating buy-in, which is the purpose of this process, we may still need to do some additional work. So we have two minutes left. Gatikaya, do you want to? I don't think it's appropriate to do the whole next section in two minutes. What do you think, Ashwin? Yeah, I think that might be a little challenging. So I think we should, I mean, I really think that the, yeah, I feel like we can't really cover that in the time. Next section. So the next piece is, I was going to go a little bit through the community leaders. I think we're pretty set on that. But then we were going to talk about how we're going to structure the sector group meetings and setting aside a specific meeting time in advance of their first sector group. That would be an introduction that would involve racial justice and equity training for the committee and energy democracy training for the community leaders. And that would provide some framing and some relationship work before getting into the actual goal setting work. And I have, you know, more than two minutes of thoughts on that to share. And I think it would be just unfair to the way that we've put our thoughts and energy into it to present it in two minutes. So I'm not sure what to do. Yeah, I think let's hold on that and add that to a next agenda item next meeting because I think we accomplished one of the things that we certainly needed to accomplish today, which is making sure we all looked at the stakeholder list. I would encourage anyone if they think of someone or to speak soon. And, you know, I think we need to, we're going to need to just play this all by ear because I think Stephanie really needs to be involved and we need to figure out what her availability is going to be. So hopefully we can have some thoughts on that. My first email I got from her was that her father's health was starting to fail and she wasn't sure if this was going to be a few day process or a few month process. Then we got a kind of another email that seemed much more urgent. So I think we just need to give her some time. But in terms of what is technically required of the grant, we need to move forward and try to schedule at least one of the, ideally more than one, but at least one of the task groups meetings towards the end of June and sort of Ghazikaya, to your point, maybe then work the timeline back to figure out when we would, we could schedule these other sessions that you were speaking of and how that fits into our overall timeline. So our thoughts were that it would be the initial meeting and that that's the meeting that would take place before the end of June. So just one eating of everybody and all the task groups, it would be broken. I mean, broken into, let me just share screen, broken into a three hour chunk, one hour being committee members with a third party facilitator, a second hour being community leaders with a third party facilitator and then coming together committing and visioning hour that would also be facilitated. I guess I'd really like to move ahead with some scheduling and inviting. Whatever the agenda is for the first meeting, we need to actually schedule and invite with some notice or else can't expect people to come. Yeah, I would also request that we whatever proposals are being made for the structure and so on, that we get them in advance of the meeting, like I would have liked to have seen of the proposals before them, you know, to have it in the packet for the meeting today, although I know there was issues with Stephanie. And if you have a proposal about the structure coming up, if we already have it, could we just send it out, you know, ASAP so that we could look at it? Because that's, you know, we need to see it. Okay, so we need to end this call, but let's plan on building, making that... So Laura, I had emailed it to you before the meeting, just right before the meeting. Yeah, and it's part of that packet. There's a breakdown of the schedule. Okay, so I can share that out with the group, and then I'll be in touch about the agenda for the next meeting and next steps as soon as I can. So we can't wait till the next meeting to schedule the first meeting and still have it happen in June. Yeah, so I need to speak offline with Stephanie and Ghazikaya and figure out, it sounds like we've already reached out to some community members and some, we haven't, right? Is that the sense I'm getting? I've communicated with the majority. Okay, but also other committee members have also communicated with potential participants as well, correct? So I've just been in communication with Darcy. I haven't connected directly with Casey. There is someone who, Ashwin, added to the list. I don't know if Ashwin, you've spoken with, was it Julia? Yeah, no not yet. Okay, and then everybody else I've spoken with. And there are some who just don't know what life is going to look like tomorrow, and so are interested and are not able to, I wasn't even able to, I told them, you're not being formally invited. Would you be interested? And then I've brought the list to you all. So that's where that is. And I can just show you all. Let me just scroll down and you can just see the layout. Can I say if we're going to do an invite between meetings, schedule meeting, I don't see why each task group should do their own invitation, just be standardized? Yeah, I have a community leader invitation to offer you all that Ashwin and I worked at. Like I said, we had quite another chunk of information to share and I'm sorry that we didn't get to it. This is the schedule and then I can scroll up to the invitation if you like and it's something that we can send out. And the recommendation would be that there will be one invitation that can be used. That would be more formal for town staff and other stakeholders and that there's one invitation that has been specifically adjusted given the feedback we got from some of the committee members and just in light of being more inclusive. So I have that to offer as well. Great. So I think we need to figure out a way to move forward with scheduling the first meeting before our next meeting. That's what I'm hearing from you, Andra. Yeah. And I would agree with that. And so I think, you know, let's figure out how to do that. I don't think it's a typical individual's task groups inviting something on individual invitations. I don't think that's on the table. Laura, another thing to just offer with respect to this initial meeting that Gazikaya has described is that it's going to be committee members and community leaders. Once we have made a final decision on which community leaders are going to be invited and it sounds like all of them are going to be invited and we'll just hope that we can get as many folks as we can. But given that that's the case, scheduling for that particular first meeting might be a little bit less complex and we could try to nail that down very soon. Basically once Gazikaya is able to formally invite the community leaders and we get a response there. Okay. Yeah, I think once you guys pick a date, we can just tell them what the date is and we can have the first meeting and, you know, maybe we'll get feedback. Oh, 10 out of 14 can't come. And then I'll let you know. So why doesn't this group send any scheduling conflicts for the last two weeks of June through to me? And you can CC Gazikaya if you have their email address or if not, I will coordinate. Are we talking about an evening? I mean just in terms of looking at our calendars, are we talking about an evening meeting or during the day? Evening would probably be preferable for the schedules that I'm aware of. Yeah, and for mine as well. So just in terms of sharing our conflicts, just focus on when we might be conflicted in the evenings. The weekends as well. And weekends. Yeah, okay. Okay, so that's an action item for the group and then we'll be back in touch on other things as soon as we can. Sound good? And sorry, just for the minutes, that's for the cover based the last two weeks in June in terms of sharing the conflicts with you. That's my sense. I think we have to have our next committee meeting before we have this meeting. And so our next committee meeting is the 17th. So anytime after the 17th. Yep, okay. Jesse, did you have a point? Just want to offer up a ton of gratitude for all the thinking and work that went into today and going late and I just thank you. Great. All right, thanks everybody. Thank you.