 Welcome to this session today. We are live on not only on Zoom, but also on Facebook and Twitter. So welcome everyone. If you have questions during the session, please feel free to post them on the respective channels and we'll try to consolidate those questions and answer them as we go forward. So these are really unprecedented times and marketers in particular across most industries are impacted. So what we have done today is that we have put together this power packed panel of these awesome tech marketers. And we will discuss some of these challenges as well as tips for building a market stack for a post COVID-19 world. So hello folks. We have Deepali Nair. She is the director of marketing India and South Asia at IBM. We have Gaurav Mehta, chief marketing officer at Cardecho. And then we have Piyush Kumar, who's head of data platform engineering at Make My Trip. Welcome folks. I'm a big fan of your work and feel honored to be moderating this panel. So let's start with the basic question, right? Obvious question. How has this current crisis impacted you in particular your marketing initiatives? And what are your key strategies in terms of people, process and tech going forward as the situation unfolds? Can I request Deepali to go first? Thank you first of all. Thank you to the exchange for media team also. And I know that people are watching us live on Zoom and Insta and Facebook and Twitter. And your question is that how has life changed and how will life change going forward? I think every marketing team, and not just the marketing team but the sales teams also. And I do see sales and marketing going hand in hand, especially in a B2B marketing setup like we have at IBM. We've had to pivot. We've had to be very agile in terms of shutting down a few things, evaluating a few things which are working for us in the pre-COVID days and continuing to work for us. So keep them on and also do a simultaneous stream of saying, how will we come back post-COVID, whichever be that life stage, how will we come back. So let me explain. For example, I'm part of the Asia Pacific team and at Asia Pacific, for example, we have ANZ, we have Korea and we have the ASEAN countries in Singapore. Everybody is in a different life stage in terms of coming out of COVID. We see Korea and ANZ, for example, coming out sooner compared to India. And the thinking therefore is that when we are coming out, what is the kind of conversation that we want to drive with our audiences and how do we want to reach out to them as a responsible conglomerate. So that's the kind of work that's happening over there. In India, for example, last five weeks for us has all been about supporting the clients that we have. So we are supporting essential services. There is no telecom company in the country that we're not supporting. There is no banking organization in the country that we're not supporting. We are part of the BCV planning, for example, for RBI. All the digital payments that you see happening in the country, some part of it or the other is being touched by IBM. So a lot of the work has not been in that marketing domain so much to speak for ourselves, but from a marketing perspective, it has all been in the communications and in supporting the client space. So we are running things like helpers and things like those. And then if you look at the core marketing work that we have, we used to have a combination of a lot of digital marketing and a lot of face-to-face marketing and of course two channels that we had. We of course had to completely stop the face-to-face work that we were doing and we've had to find channels there to see how can we convert it into digital. The digital marketing work continues but there the content and the messaging we've had to pivot very quickly and change it because the same messages are not relevant any longer. So there's been a lot of content change that we've done over there. My team for example has done a lot of virtual events now, very experienced in doing webinars. I was just talking to Piyush and Gaurav in the pre-session, tons of webinars. But I must compliment the teams at IBM and specifically my team who were already thinking of doing a lot of virtual work this year even before COVID hit. So we actually did a very large 3,500 people virtual forum in the month of Feb anywhere around because we know that the world is changing. So I think the evolution in any case into the non-face-to-face formats was happening everywhere in the world, it's just that I think COVID has perhaps accelerated that effort. So Apur with that, I mean Piyush or Gaurav can take on from there. You made that very good point that you're pivoting from physical to more of digital channels. How is it for you Piyush for the online travel industry? Do you see the same things or what are your observations there? So ours is like the worst head industry per se, travel industry per se. But yeah, everybody is head in more or less in different formats. But kind of changes with respect to what they probably shared. In our context, it would be very different per se. So it's not just because of industry, channels, etc. But in terms of our interactions with the customers per se. Earlier, the kind of interactions which we were focusing on was either more transactional or emotional related things. But now we are primarily focusing our effort around engagement platform, etc. So engagement becomes the key. And knowing some of the initiators which we have done in past, primarily on to personalization and understanding of customer etc. Are helping us like so do a better communication and conversations in this time. And obviously some of the other things which is like now building the safety first product is more important in terms of communicating rightful things like travel, right? So make my trip being the industry leader and a super app kind of thing. We have like different line of businesses, right? So starting from flight hotel to holiday packaging too. We have newly launched initiators either on experiences, activities and mavis sections, etc. And we are hoping these things would get a different shape with respect to the efforts which we are making primarily on the engagement side. And the other key part is like so some of the other things which internally we are working on is like so we are making sure like so as the phase wise approach which Diwali also need to do. And saying okay when we come back right or like whatever shape the business is going to be back into how our approach with respect to either content communication or like with respect to business is going to change, right? So in the hindsight if you think right so business is going to come out like a rebooted operating system, right? So where there should be a new software installed and that's what we are trying to build in these times and hoping for the best. Okay, okay, cool. Gaurav what's your view been like are people still searching for cars as much as they were doing before? How has that changed? So short answer to that, less people are searching for cars. But what we are seeing there's an interesting insight that's coming out is that there's a search of user interest in used cars. And that's a very good thing to see because used car if you see used auto is a very disaggregated fractured ecosystem and it's not digitized it's not owned by a single player or like a number of players. It's it's very very hard work. But we are seeing that people have started searching much more for used car. And I think it might be coming from the fact that people will be a little bit wary of taking shared mobility options like Uber and Ola or even metros and buses at least for the foreseeable future. Just because trust and hygiene perspective. So I think used car the entire adoption of used car as an industry or digitizing of used car as an industry I just accelerated a lot will accelerate a lot. I think what we are seeing right now is the user interest and because of which I say what I say. Right. The second part is April was the first ever zero revenue month for Indian automobile industry since the time the automobiles started in the country. So can't be more unprecedented than that. But again what it has like done is that by looking at the potential car buyers and two wheeler buyers. The OEMs your all the big OEMs have started to look at digitizing much more seriously. I think earlier there was a little bit of an ad hoc effort that maybe OK. Digital marketing. But then digitizing the business operation has just come to the forefront of a lot of big OEMs. How can we minimize physical interaction. How can we depend upon technology to very frankly take the consumer pretty much throughout their entire transaction panel and so on and so forth. So as the largest auto tech company in the country our job has been what we want to do has been accelerated by the current situation. So I think there's some while while on the in a short term in the near term I think they are bleak scenarios like like. I don't think people are going to be traveling in May and June the summer vacation which is the peak season. And I think we are not also going to be seeing a lot of uptick in car purchase or two wheeler purchase beat new or used. But I think in the longer run this is the reset button that is going to digitize the entire industry very very rapidly. So I'm very very optimistic about what the future holds. So all of you are on the same page when you say that this is going to accelerate marketing technology so as to say. So what are the key marketing technologies that each of you see coming up or evolving for each of your each of your verticals. So maybe you can start this time or if that's OK. So they did two three things specially specific to my industry maybe I can just talk about it. One is that the transaction any technology that is enabling transactions. Yeah even for a product like cars is going to get like supercharged. We are seeing a better traction not just from our side but even from the OEM side. I think Hyundai, MG, Kia, Maruti all of them have launched their book cars online modules and they are fairly aggressive about it. And we are also like leading the whole thing for our users. So I think that piece of business will see a huge investment from a technology perspective. Second thing what I'm seeing is that people have understood that the fake news is a real and present danger. How do we like really get the right information as and when we wanted and it's not just the publishers of the news media which is responsible for them. I think for stronger brands consumers will start reaching out to them directly to understand what's the right thing or what's the wrong thing about the industry and about the brands that they own. So even the whole communication aspect of the business from a CRM perspective will see a huge uptick. And maybe the third thing is since all of us have been sitting at home for the past 40-odd days. There's no sense of time, day-day part and so on and so forth. I think if at 12 in the night you want to check out something you will check it out. So how can it be available 24-7 and not be like be from 9-6 kind of a thing. So the call center support in the traditional manner, I think that's going to be absolutized fairly soon. Your chatbots and like you know your cell phone modules, I think they will see a big uptick fairly, fairly soon. Because I think people are going to be demanding information and the right information fairly, fairly quickly. I think these three aspects of business will see a huge uptick from a market perspective technology perspective. Okay, that's a good point. So before I move to you Piyush, there is a question for you Gaurav. Would the focus be on newer used cars post-lockdown? What will be the change in eyeball strategy? So this question is by Manas Mohan on Zoom. Thanks for the question Manas. I think very quickly I'll just try and answer that. New auto was fairly digitized at least when it came to add tech. Not maybe more tech but add tech, yes. For used auto it was like leaks apart. So I think a lot of focus is going to be on used cars because I think that's a huge opportunity area for us. If you look at from a macro perspective, tell about this last financial year. New auto was growing at about 6-7-8%. New auto, used auto was growing in high teens. It is the year where used auto transactions are more than new auto whereas value turns a little bit lesser but then in terms of transactions is much more. So I think the time has come to really structure and digitize the entire used car economy right now and that's where our focus is going to be. Okay, thanks Gaurav and I'll come back to you about more tech and add tech but that will be a separate section. So Piyush, what are the key technologies you are seeing evolving or becoming more important in a post-lockdown world? Not just related to marketing per se but the whole customer experience with respect to process automation is where we are focusing and doubling down our energies and efforts on this. And the second part as Gaurav also mentioned, the jackpots and we have Myra which is our jackpot and hence understanding and answering all those kind of things because when this unprecedented thing started More or less everything was either getting cancer or people were just calling our call centers and then the market was all kind of either referring to cancellations, etc. So we saw a massive surge into those kind of queries apart from the normal informational queries per se kind of thing. So whatever automation, etc., and making seamless in terms of customer experience is something which we are really working on. The other part is utilizing the whole data-driven automation in the market, whatever you want to call it. So really we are focusing on two things. One is really understanding the customers, how better using some other angles which we haven't looked at. When things were good, you know everything, we are focusing more on what users are searching for this at all and then hence building on some of the trends which are already pumped into the data and the signals which are already generated there on because that has stepped and hence we are looking at various other signals and aspects of what this customer has done or doing, not just in terms of the user activity or device activity per se but in terms of rate, how can we seamlessly build some of the components or just to tell the audience itself, right? So we might have invested on to building our own stack internally itself, last couple of years itself and we are trying to build things on top of it. So we invested on building a feature store internally and then sitting a customer data platform on top of feature store itself. It's not just powering the machine learning models but internally also leveraging some of the communication with the stuff which we are doing through various channels of functional communication. Deepali, how about you and not just, I'm looking at you not just from IBM perspective but also from some of your clients perspective. Absolutely, in fact I was going to say that to your point that this one question can actually keep me going for 30 minutes if I won't do that. No, please do that. Okay, so let me just break it and put a framework to this. I want to refer to the three trends that Gaurav and Piyush mentioned. One is Gaurav very rightly pointed out the world call center ecosystem will undergo a change the way they need to support and the technologies therefore that are required. So especially the AI enabled, you know, call agents in chat ports are going to become really prominent and we are already seeing a huge uptake on that and conversation on that. I'm going to be launching a campaign in a few weeks time to actually start talking about that because that needs to undergo a change and that's undergoing a change. The second thing that Piyush spoke about, which is the whole customer experience bit, right? So every single big organization that we're engaging with is rethinking the customer experience, right? They are talking about how to sell in a post COVID world. And the interesting thing is that it's no longer a marketing expertise or marketing domain is no longer the CMO is headed. The CEO is asking that question to the CIO and that's the interesting bit. And that's where the marketer needs to partner the CEO and needs to partner this CIO in ensuring that the customer experience is different in the post COVID world. And there is no technology stack that they're not thinking about. So, you know, be it AIB, blockchain, be it, you know, Matic, ATEC, you know, integration, they're talking about all of those stacks. So these are two things, these are two trends that I picked up from these guys. But apart from that, one of the things that one needs to look at is that, you know, the whole world is going to be a very data led world. And there is going to be too much data that's going to be available to us. And there is a thing called the ecosystem is going to become very important. It's no longer going to be about data that gets generated by me and gets used by me as an enterprise, okay? It's going to be about what kind of secure data systems that I have that I can share it with my ecosystem for the ecosystem to become strong. And how do I do a data exchange over there? And that's the new world that people need to think about, okay? So AI already spoke about data security, therefore, will also become a huge concern. And it's not going to be a concern only of the CIOs once again. I think every business head who is, you know, dealing with data, utilizing data, generating data, it's going to be responsibility, you know, of those guys also. It's going to become very important to the brand reputation to ensure that there is data security, right? And blockchain is another thing that I want to talk about. This is a personal thing. This is not, this is not necessarily an IBM point of view, but this is the Palinar's point of view that I think in the coming world, the kind of transparency that blockchain, you know, is able to provide the work that we're doing in the space of food trust just to, as an example in the US, is going to become very critical and I see a lot of work happening in the blockchain space. It may not happen in the next six months, but I see that changing the way we do business, you know, in future. So that's on the technologies that touch marketers directly. But there is going to be a lot of technology change in the organizations about movement to cloud, for example, right? So this whole on-premise versus off-premise thing is going to undergo a huge paradigm shift, right? And that is where movement to cloud will become, you know, accelerated. At IBM, we are very, you know, aggressive and we are very confident and we've done a lot of things in the cloud space. You know, and the conversations, it's not going to be only about cheap cloud or fast cloud. It's also going to be about secure cloud. You know, and I can tell you that, you know, we would like to say this IBM cloud is the most secure cloud and most reliable cloud. So I think those are the kind of conversations that are going to happen. You asked me, you know, about what's happening with the client. So I've kind of summed it up and I think the other lens that we need to look at is the industry. So there's going to be some industries where the movement will be very fast in certain spaces. So for example, in the manufacturing space, supply chain is going to be an area that's going to be re-looked at. We are seeing that already. It's going to be looked at very quickly, right? In the financial services domain, the data security movement to cloud, the off-prem on-prem and the customer experience. These are all areas that the financial services will look at, right? Education is going to undergo a change. And the other thing, don't forget, governments are going to re-look at the processes all over again, right? And there's going to be a lot of investment from the governments to re-look at what's happening with the population. I don't want to use the word consumer, but yeah, I mean the end consumer living in the country. So I kind of painted the horizon. And I think we'll probably see a lot of hybrid cloud strategies as well, not just on and off, but mix of both. See, hybrid cloud is here to stay because for the next few years, people are doing movement, right? We are investing in the country. I mean, IBM offers private cloud and public cloud. So it's going to be a combination of that and depending on what the organizational stance is and where they are in the life stage of their movement and how quickly they want to move, we're going to be seeing that. Right. Okay. Cool. Thanks. So I come back to ATEC questions about advertising, etc. So Rohit Mohan has asked this question and a few others have also asked this question. After lockdown, it's going to be a phased opening, right? It's not going to be all opening in one shot, right? And that probably has an impact on your media and advertising strategies and how the ATEC world will play with the ATEC world. What are your thoughts on that? Who wants to go first, Gaurav? Maybe you want to take a shot? Sure. So I think, as I said, right now, I think rather than being proactive, I'm cautiously being reactive. That's contrary to how I would have liked to play, but then right now I'm being reactive on this one. Because of the industry that I represent, which is automobile. I know for a fact that it's going to be really low on the packing order for the next two to three months. As people also come to, they realize what's their disposable income levels are going to be like. What is it that they want to do with the money that they want to spend? So for me, it's more about the consumer behavior that will translate into the ATEC or MARTEC decisions that I'll take. But as of right now, I'm reacting rather than trying to take the bull by the horns. Fair enough. Being reactive probably is a good strategy, right now. Dush, how about you? How do you see advertising and media and all of that playing around with your MARTEC strategies? One of the key things is obviously we are very closely working with the CRM teams primarily. I'm part of the technology team who is working on building and supporting most of the campaign strategies right now, which they are doing. There was a question which I saw on the Q&A section. Do you have a strategy for a phase approach? Yes, we do and there are on a very high level. Phase 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, this is how we have divided. The key part here is as Gaurav and you both mentioned, it is not going to go full blown up sooner. This year it is going to play more or less. Only essential travel or some of the things are going to open etc. But again, continuing to the thoughts which Gaurav said, reactive in terms of what users have already started doing. Like picking up the trends from what they are doing etc. As Gaurav has announced, most of the data sets are available now with the COVID-19 data sets with red, green, orange kind of labels of every district. So we created our data sets in terms of location, what is green, what is orange etc. And we are trying to understand those destinations, number of cases, how their number of dates etc. And trying to correlate those things with the data patterns internally about historical trends of those destinations which we have. And trying to see where we can enable some of the campaigns, where we cannot etc. And hence the four part is to really match both the data sets closely and then work with the whole team as one. So we are debating and launching some of the new stuff as well. And I hope you guys are going to see which is very unlike my trip kind of thing. But yeah, definitely we are experimenting with lot many things now. And then it's again like so experimentation is going to be the key going forward. So and you need to see what is getting stuck. So think about like every startup, what they will do, they will experiment something. And then whatever is going to win or likes where you see a light coming in and then you go after it. So that's how our reaction or reactive approach is. But experimentation is going to be the key. Okay, thanks. Look forward to trying out some of those experiments Piyush. Deepali, does this phased approach, phased opening and the overall uncertainty. Does that mean that you have to continually change your or evolve your marketing strategies and do you plan for that? Or can you plan for that? So I think if you are a smart marketer, I think your marketing processes need to be built for the fact that you will need to pivot and change. Okay. And my segmentation may not be geographical like Piyush spoke about and his business requires it to be geographical. In my business segmentation is about the like the way I mentioned industries, right? The government and the manufacturing and the financial services, right? And that's where my segmentation comes from. And I think the difference that has come in and I completely agree with Gaurav and Piyush what they said that. But I think I just want to add on a layer there. I think the difference that has come in for me very importantly in the last few weeks is the way we look at content. In B2B for example, all of us are used to saying this is a thought leadership content and the tactical content was not the thought leadership content. Let me just put it that way. But I think the difference now is the way the consumer is consuming that content has made us relook at what we dole out as tactical stuff. It's no longer tactical. We have to really look at what we are saying to them. We have to look at, you know, messaging and say, okay, how can I give more relevant messaging to the smaller segments that I have? One of the changes for example, you know, we had a brand campaign that we had just launched. But we've gone back to an older brand campaign that we had because that's more relevant during COVID times. Okay, so I think those are the kind of things and I was speaking to a lot of my CMO friends. A few of them in the first two, three weeks really struggled because they said, listen, you know, I mean media is available so cheap and so on and so forth. But what is it that I put out, you know, I have to get, I have to really get the content out. But I think now everybody is, you know, come around that and we're all, you know, doing the needful, which is required in terms of changing our messaging quickly. And that means, you know, changing the content. Yeah, but that thing on ad-tech and martech of course continues the stack and the segmentation and the customization and therefore this content piece becomes very important in the personalization space. Okay, excellent. Okay, so my next section is about metrics. But before I come to that, Piyush, there is a specific question for you from Seth Ahmed. He says, how is the MMT using CDPs or customer data platforms in this situation? So first, are you using them and what's your take on those? Yeah, as I said, right, so we build our own customer data platform internally on top of features store itself. So we know we have like so as part of our customer data platform, we have user master, device masters, they're booking history, etc. And then we build various data sets on top of it, right? A user is transmitting into a panel, right? We try to ground transportation bus field cab, etc. We internally do the stitching of our per se, right? So a user is not particularly booking itinerary or a trip, right? He's like buying most of the products individually into the different panels per se. And we try to understand like how the customer is now traveling from point A to point B, as a super app because we have other products, but can I cross sell, upsell and do all those kind of things? So customer data platforms are utilized into those kind of things. Now, historically, we have these data sets, right? So now we are utilizing these data sets to better understand, right? What they were doing pre-COVID era, right now, what they are trying to do, etc. Are they doing any searches, etc. The other key part is, right? So we have a section called trip ideas, right? Which is heavily on to content side of it. And hence, trying to like push users to engage with the kind of content which is available on the platform itself. So and now what kind of themes or categories or tags you want to like focus and utilize on to and what communication you want to do and what content to share on the feeds in trip ideas section per se is utilized based on whatever transactions they have done, right? Have they traveled more on the adventure side of it? Have they traveled more on to those kind of things? And hence, content play based on the transactional data is something which we are heavily working on right now. I hope that answers. Thanks, that's a good overview. Hopefully that answers this question. Okay, so coming back to the metrics, right? So I want to look at metrics from two lenses. One is we all know that investments are going to increase. We all agree that agreed that investments in digital marketing are going to increase. But it is often a very tough task to actually justify a business case for a martech investment. So do you use metrics to justify a new martech investment? For example, can you can you measure increase in CLV or LTV and attribute to a martech investment? So that's the first lens and the second lens that I want to look at it is is what are the key metrics that you track or you think are important to track for each of your businesses? You want me to go first? Sure, Deepali, go ahead. Okay, so I will tackle your second question first. Okay, at IBM, we really believe on the performance marketing side to track the ROI on my investment and track it to sales. Okay, so there are there are variables that we track in between, which is, you know, let's say pipeline leads value of deals and so on and so forth. But ultimately what matters is that, you know, has that gotten us the same? And I used to have the same philosophy when I worked at Mahindra holidays and I learned the same philosophy when I was the e-commerce head at LNG insurance, right? You put in the money. Ultimately, if you're doing business and if you're managing a, you know, profit sheet, if you're managing a business, then that's what matters and that's what we do at IBM. We also do the brand health monitor. We also look at chair of voice. We also look at brand relevancy, the traditional matrix that marketing teams have been used to looking at. In between my campaign managers will also look at, you know, engagement rates, they will also look at click through rates and all that because those are all input variables that will deliver the numbers to us. Right, so that's, you know, your question number two. I think your first questions were interesting for me, which is what will happen in the future and what are we looking at, right? So there are, of course, the customer lifetime value is a matrix that we were already looking at. It's not that, you know, it has come into the picture only at COVID. I worked in financial services for 10 years. Customer lifetime value is a concept that is there to stay in financial services, right? The only thing is that at Tech Martech were not married to each other in terms of the processes that marketing teams used to run, right? And that marriage will perhaps, I think, you know, is going to be the holy grail that we're all going to chase, right? My worry and my question is more for the customer experience side of it, right? So if, for example, customer experience is measured, let's say NPS and everybody uses, used NPS as a score for measuring customer experience, right? Now the question is one point increase in NPS, okay, contributes to how much extra sales in the long term. That's a metric that we don't have. Okay. And the second metric that all of us don't have is what kind of investment in what kind of technology stack will give me that one point increase in NPS, right? If we can solve this equation, you know, we'd be living in a perfect world, but all of us are in a life stage of where we're trying to solve this problem, right? How much investment, what effort, whether in technology or in marketing do I need to make to increase my NPS? And that increase in NPS, is it translating into sales? You know, to me, the world will go, go around trying to solve this equation. I'm going to just leave it there. Okay, okay. Okay. Yeah. I think the Pali makes us a very, very strong point, especially what she would just like saying at the fragment of a chat right now. This stitching together of a consumer journey from say research, product experience, consumer experience leading to transaction, leading to cross-sell, repeat-to-repeat transaction. That's in silos. And I don't think without having a very robust SCV, a single customer view, can you actually start to understand the tangible value that your ad tech or our tech is bringing in for the business? Yeah. Let me just like bring out an example. We are in the business of selling and buying cars and motorcycles in the country. About 25 million people buy and sell cars or bikes in the country. Versus about 290 to 300 million unique users who come on our platforms in a year basis. So only about 10% of our, even if I were to think that each and every person who's buying the car or bike is on our platform, only 10% of my user base would be actually transactors. So first thing is for me to understand which one is going to be transacting and who's going to be like repeat transacting also. So, and that's an ad hoc, stylo basis right now. So if I'm getting a new user on my side through say, through ad tech enabled technologies, how do I sell maybe an insurance to that person a year down the line? And describe the same value to this person. This guy was brought at a dollar value last year and now he's giving me $10 right now. He gave me $5 last year and so on and so forth. I think that's stitching together is super important. That can only be enabled through single customer view once you have that. So that identifier is super, super critical because you have so many platforms. You have mobile web, your web, your PWAs, you have mobile apps and all that. And the identifiers don't go horizontally. And just to give you an example why there's such a potent force. We launched our Yuska retail stores last year where a person could just walk in and sell their cars at the retail store. Now we didn't have any first party data on a person who wants to sell the car in the next month or week or fortnight and whatsoever. We just dug out our old database where people had given us the consent and where they bought a car from us four to five years back. And we obviously knew that four to five years later is when a person changes the car. So we used our own data platforms to personalize the journey, to intervene at the right time and have them be interested in selling a car to a retail store. And a lot of that data worked, those intelligent interventions worked. But that's a very hard work effort and that's the point that I'm making. So while I acquired this guy five years back, I again made some value on this person at some point in time last year by cross-selling him. But then it started going into my CLB or LTV calculation right now. As much as I would like to say yes, it's not happening because my CVs are not robust, my single customers are not robust. Once that is enabled then I think this is a foregone conclusion that LTV will be the first thing that each and every person looks at because it can be enabled then robustly. Right, so this whole single customer view and stitching together profiles from devices and channels is an interesting area. Are you using any of the shelf technology for it or are you building all of this on your own like Piyush has done? Yeah, so we're building this on our own. We had acquired a company about four to four and a half years back. It's called Connector, it's a big data platform where we actually track a lot of journeys and once a person signs up with us that's the unique identity flyer. Even that's a fraction of the entire 300 million audio unique user base. So while we will have a good number of data in absolute terms or in terms of percentage wise it will be still lesser. So you can assume that like our best foot forward can only be put forward for that percentage whose journey we can stretch across the media. Right, obviously. And then it's easy for us to make the LTVs on that but what about the rest huge, huge population where we don't have an SCV? That's my point. Deepali, you were saying something? No, I just, you know, while you're talking about it, I just remembered that in the pre-discussion when we talk about change one of the most important element is bringing that change into the organization and that means people. And I particularly remember one incident which I was discussing, you know, with it was a fusion, Gaurav have heard me, you know, talk about it. That when I joined, you know, one of the organizations and the KPI there for the marketing team used to be cost per lead. Okay, and they would deliver fantastically on cost per lead. And you know, when we're discussing this whole customer lifetime value and customer experience and NPS, the shift that I wanted to make there was that just move from cost per lead to cost per lead. You know, the sales, the sale, but then what happens is the sale gets impacted also by the sales team. It's not just being done by the business team, but just by the marketing team. Right. When I announced that shift, I lost half of my digital team because they weren't happy, you know, about it. And I also lost my agency. I had to hire a new agency also. Okay. So these changes don't happen very easily. You know, change is a very difficult process to implement, you know. So when you're doing a tech stack change, when you are doing KPIs change, when you are doing new ways of working and new ways of looking at how you're going to be, you know, scored at the end of the year and upraised at the end of the year. These are not very easy changes. Absolutely. That's the thing that's going on in my mind that, you know, we're very easily talking about the changes. Sure. And I think my compliment to lots of teams and agencies and businesses during the COVID period in terms of how they've shown agility, you know, and actually move to change. I agree. Change management is often more trickier than technology and other things. That's a good point. Okay. So Martek Guru Scott Brinker released his humongous landscape map last week. Right. And that graphic reinforces the notion that Martek is not only rapidly evolving, but is becoming complex, very complex. Right. So do you agree with that one? And how do you cope up with this ever evolving Martek landscape? Do you have research teams in place? How do you hire people? Do you train people? How do you handle all of that rapid evolution? Who wants to go first? Any volunteers? What are we going to talk about before discussing it in our free discussion? Go ahead. No, I'll give a quick point of view. I think, again, this whole thing, I'll be the first one to laugh if anybody says I'm like a subject matter expert on the entire stack of Martek. I'm definitely not. But at least I try and understand what it can bring for the business. I think internally how we try to like remain as updated as possible with this ever changing is that there's a mandate for the consumer facing teams to huddle together to understand what are the real consumer problems that our company is trying to solve. And I think it's upon the marketing and the product teams to really rank order these problems. These three problems where the person is looking for maybe a certain color variant at a certain locality in terms of the car that he wants to buy. But right now we don't have the information to actually provide that to the consumer. And then we proactively try to either build it out and make through our own data platforms. And if not, then we try and like hire that. But the only problem in that with the issue is that it's too fractured. It is not coming out from the right architecture. You don't have a platform in which you just put like Lego pieces and it just builds out together. Maybe these are parallel streams that start to emerge together. And that's the biggest problem that you might have a really robust platform. For one facet of the business, but then the other might not be talking to each other. And that's the biggest problem that one faces. And I think the change will come from the product facing, sorry, the consumer facing organizations functions within the organization. And I also include the customer support team into that. And so what we do is we always have a pod structure to this somewhere where we try and see which are the main problems to tackle. And then there's a conscious effort to see if we can not, if we can't build it out, then let's just hire it. But consolidation is a big issue. So just continuing to what Garos said, right? So I'm not sure like if this analogy is going to fit to this context per se. So clients think about like client server and peer to peer kind of thing in customer relationship. Kind of a setup where like think about like clients are like consumer applications or customers etc. And then server is something which is a central brain where you understand like a true matic setup where you any interactions etc. is understood by that central brain or a brain or the server and then based on the good understanding of the customer etc. You are just maneuvering the customer experience and the journey forward in a true personalization manner. And the other pieces like so the plenty of tooling stack etc. Which you will need to is making sure like so things are disjoint. And then you need to build more of a peer to peer technology which is going to be really chatty. So because like so and everybody needs to talk to each other to make a single viewer whatever you want to call it. So my only submission to is like so you need to see as Garos said, right? You need to see where your organization is into what kind of journey what you have already built what you understand internally. Which is everybody says right so we have our own matic space but like so what you understand internally with respect to a customer and what the ecosystem understands about your customers or the footprint they have done right. So and how seamless so like for example some of the mappers etc. Which we talked about right so the smaller issues right which is like having just identifiers common identifiers all across is a pain right. And just like maybe not right now but like so a year ago I would say like so just a simple ask of right just saying okay. You can't communicate it like two times in a week to a customer is going to be a pain in the ass right. So in saying okay here are two different three different tools which I am using a check and they don't talk to each other. There is no central thing right. So my only submission to is like so have a view of a client kind of or client server kind of a setup where the central brain really understand or whatever you want to call it be it a customer data platform or whatever right. Understand that thing and if the technology and stack is stitching together like a legal like component etc. That's the way forward to think about it. Okay Deepali any thoughts on that? You know nothing to add here but I am just saying that the practical limitation that a marketer and an organization faces sometimes is that we don't exist alone and we don't have all our processes in house. Different companies have outsourced the processes to a lot of marketing vendors be it advertising agencies, media agencies or other you know content providing services. And I feel that the ecosystem is not rising up to and changing the speed at which sometimes let's say organizations such as MakeMyTrip and Karedeco are changing because they are doing development of stack. You know in house and we do it at IBM also by the way. You are asked about the best developed in house and it's where we advanced and I think sometimes the limitation comes in from there because it's a reality. You can't take all aspects of marketing in house. Okay good points. So let's talk a bit about the dark side. So both of you Gaurav and Pooch you mentioned stitching together of profiles and merging and reaching first party data with second party, third party data and all of that stuff. So all of that is good but it also has implications of data privacy and consent management and all of that. So how do you have you made or have you implemented any safeguards? We don't have a privacy law in place yet right? So what do you guys do for doing all of that? Yeah so it's not like so data privacy law is not kind of a mandate but it is still in draft state or whatever it is. And like so at least from industry perspective we were involved like other partners in the industry as a voice like while the process was on. For the draft itself per se. And then hence and internally to the organization itself right? So we internally kick off many projects and which are more or less like now which is either in terms of data anonymization having UI is in place of any PII information etc. And we cleaned up all the data sets etc all across that was a massive massive effort and the group CTO took that call because like so this is not going to be a conversion impacting project or which future which you are developing internally to enable some of the things. But like taking privacy and data security as the key thing. Not just like be the person in terms of just doing the data capture storage and doing the analysis and then doing building the data products per se as the Pali in earlier thoughts also shared right? So data security is going to be the key going forward because like so one glitch is going to give you like a bad name, bad brand name or whatever you want to put it out there. And we keep on seeing across the industry there are things or hacks etc which are building up. But just coming on to the other part which you said right? The first part you did the second party, third party or alternative sources where you gather data through etc. And it's not just like so having our own thing cleaned up right? You need to work with as the Pali was saying right? You need to work with all your partners in the ecosystem etc to make sure like so because customers are giving their footprints and leaving good amount of information on those platforms as well not just yours right? And if they are your customers and they are coming in from those channels you need equivalent equal amount of trust with respect to how they are handling those kind of things. So I really hope right? So the data privacy bill is going to pass soon hopefully next year or so. So that like so at least like so the core part in the bill is right? So customer is going to be the owner of whatever the footprint is leaving behind right? And most of the things are either seeing or learn from GDPR etc. And the core focus is with customer and when customer becomes custodian of his footprints or his trail etc. Organizations are then forced to take out all those major etc which is going to be a very good thing. So let's say if I were to tell make my trip to forget me and not track any of my customer journeys or interactions is that ever going to be possible? Ever yes but like it is going to be really really hard. It's not going to be easy in near future but yeah there are things which we are working on some of the things are already done. Like having a central vault where this PIA information etc are then spreading across all the data sets. Map to some of the UUIDs etc which are doing those references to the central vault right? So we have prepared those services. We are doing the good amount of work on fraud per se internally as well. So we are leveraging some of the stuff which we were working on fraud related stuff along with the data security and privacy. But not yet but yes definitely that's the way and it's going to be really really hard in saying okay let's forget about me. Okay good to know that. Gaurav do you want to go next? So I will add to what Piyusha is saying. I think from a tech perspective what he just spoke about anonymization and so on. So that's an ongoing project with our side also. There are two aspects to the whole data privacy thing. One is obviously legal and compliance which is maybe I think Piyush rightly pointed out the kind of steps that are being taken. I will also point out the relation between a business and the consumer. A large part of data privacy is not just about being only legal and compliant which is obviously a very very large thing but also what kind of value are you adding to the consumer. I've always seen that consumers are open to giving their own data and their consents if you are giving them the requisite value back. And that's the consumer experience aspect also that we at CAR they call a little bit condescent of. How often or how are we using the data that the person has consented to share with us or with our partners also. Very quick example if a person wants to buy a Hyundai car are we selling it to say a Maruti dealer no. So that I made the trust of the consumer and the user experience is also not like sacrificed just because you want to monetize that one lead multiple times. So I think the other element of consumer privacy is also like the consumer experience. Are you in the short term of revenue buffering up or are you like building a business which delivers value and then people say you know what I like what you guys give me here's my consent here's my data. That's the second part apart from what you spoke. Okay. Nepali you did mention data security earlier but do you want to add on here any further thoughts. No nothing I don't want to add on here and I also just wanted to remind you I think we've got only about five minutes. So I've been taking questions on the way. So I think we are towards the end of our time. So before I summarize I'll take one last question which is really at top is a top of mind question I think right now. Any estimates on how long it will take to get back to pre covid scenario in terms of demand. This is a question by Narayan Ganeshan but I think everybody wants to ask this question. Anyone. Nobody knows that answer yeah totally speaking right. I guess make a guess make a wild guess. No also I think it depends industry to industry right. Two essentials will come back to normal for sooner than I would say fashion okay. So I'm just I've just picked up to random I don't think it'll be the same time period for everyone. Very quickly my industry if it comes back in the next four or five months I'll be happy girl. Yeah. So those are good statistics okay. Okay so let's see so there are several other questions and I apologize I cannot take them all right now because answering them would take a lot longer than what we have. So we'll just close it here thank you everyone. There were some good points about how Martek will evolve and what are the different challenges that we have to address. We talked about AI data security privacy we even talk touch the dark side of all of the all of this so that was a very good discussion. Thanks also for some great questions from the audience you were awesome folks. Thank you so we'll close this discussion right now and if there are any other questions we will try and see if we can answer them offline. Yeah. Yeah I have a plug to do we have a very very big event happening today Arvind Krishna who's our chairman is going to be doing a keynote at 8 30 today. I'm going to post a link on my Twitter anybody can sign in it's one of the most premium most events in the technology companies you want to know more about technology. Please attend the event today and tomorrow I'm going to be posting it on my Twitter a lot of you are anyway you know are on Twitter at 8 30 p.m. today. I joined it. Okay cool any closing thoughts guys. Yeah just be creative like so humans are creative so apply your knowledge and like hopefully this shall also pass and then like so whatever is going to come is going to be good for good yeah so be safe yeah that's it. This shall also pass yes that's good. I really think you let's not like you know be too tough on ourselves. Yeah things are not happening as rapidly as they used to be so the effort is not giving the right result. I think that benchmark is gone at least the next two three months. Let's be a little bit easy when I said I'm being reactive that's what I meant. That like let's look at like the new consumer behaviors new industry truth out there merging and then try and leverage and then give a creative solution. I think you should thank God I'm gonna be creative. If we are just too hard on ourselves. Don't don't don't for the next two she wants to think like that and stay safe. Good point so thanks thanks thanks for those points and thank you everyone and thank you for all those who attended. Have a good evening and stay safe. And thank you. Thank you for asking us all these lovely questions. Thank you. Good night.