 And do you tell Amherst media to go or Pam Amherst media should be all set. I'm just going to text them. I know that they're there. Oh, we're live. Okay. Okay, great. So, Pam, if you can bring up the agenda on the screen. That would be wonderful. And I will begin Call to order. Welcome to the Amherst planning board meeting of May 20 2020 based on Governor Baker's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL Chapter 30 a section 20 and signed Thursday, March 12 2020 this planning board meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform. My name is Christine Gray Mullen and as chair of the Amherst planning board. I am calling this meeting to order at 634 This meeting is being recorded and available live stream via Amherst media minutes are being taken as normal. I will now take a roll call board members as you hear your name called unmute yourself answer affirmatively and then please place yourselves back on you. Michael Burt whistle. He's waving. Okay, I recognize his wave. Maria. Thank you. Jack gem sick. Yes, I'm present. But did we I didn't get the email for the link for this zoom. There was a little technical issue. Nobody did. So that's what every sent it to you. But okay great glad you're here. Thanks for figuring it out. David Levenstein. I'm here. Thank you. Doug Marshall. And Janet McGowan. Board members of the technical difficulties if they arise we may need to pause temporarily to rectify the problem and then continue the meeting. If you do have technical issues please let it tonight it's Sean or Pam know discussion may be suspended while the technical issues are addressed and the minutes will note a couple of minutes before the public comment. The public comment will be provided during the general public comment period and at other appropriate times throughout the meeting. Please be aware of the board will not respond to comments during the general public comment period. If you wish to make a comment during the public comment period. You must sign in the meeting via the zoom teleconferencing link. This link is shown on the slide and can be entered into a search engine by typing HTTPS. No colon backslash backslash Amherst mass dot zoom dot us backslash J backslash nine to zero one to four nine seven six seven eight. This link can also be found on the meeting agenda which is located on the town website in two ways. One way is through the calendar listing for this meeting on the homepage and find the link within the event details. A second way is to go to the planning board web page and click on the most recent agenda link for tonight. The agenda there has a link a zoom link that is towards the top of the page where it states virtual meeting. Please indicate you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited. If you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your telephone. When called upon please identify yourself stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the planning board chair. If these guidelines are not complied with all the speaker exceeds their allotted time their participation will be disconnected from the meeting moving onward. The slide will show now show the meeting agenda for this evening. Again note the virtual meeting zoom link at the top. So we will move right on to the agenda. First one is minutes. We did receive minutes for March 4. This is for a second time. Janet McGowan wanted to add some comments. It was around four o'clock. It went out. Did everybody have time to go through those and read those comments? And if anyone didn't, you can click raise hand or we'll have to get back to the agenda. So we will move right on to the agenda. First one is minutes. We did receive minutes for March 4. This is for a second time. And if anyone didn't, you can click raise hand or we'll have to get that part up on my screen. Christine, I can put those up on the screen if you want. Yeah, we could do that. So I'm looking for hands for anyone who didn't have time to read the minutes. I see Jack's hand. I see Michael's. So if you can unclick your hand. So I'm going to just ask first off, should we wait and go another two weeks so that there's a lot of comments in there. So if you, if anyone raised their hand for wait two weeks or do them now. I see one hand from Jack and one from Michael. Okay, so we'll just give this, we'll just table this for two weeks. Chris, do you have, I'm asked, you know, I know we're trying to expedite these and get them up. Can we wait and do that? Is that all right? Just, I mean, we didn't get them till four o'clock this afternoon. Yeah, my hand was up to say that I think it's time we should, we should review the minutes I read them. I think they're appropriate. I think we should approve them. Okay, Jack, was that what your hand is up or do you want to wait for two weeks. Um, can you hear me. Yeah, I can hear you. I'm sorry. So it's just, I didn't actually skim through it, but I just, you know, I didn't think the language was perfect, whatever it says, you know, in terms of saying vary or, you know, many, I just was uncomfortable with some of the terminology that was in there. However, if everyone's good with it, I'm good with it. I do feel like we're kind of going over the top in terms of editing these minutes really. It's my opinion. So we can go over them if everyone's comfortable with it. I was also uncomfortable with some of the changes to the point where I spent an hour today, reliving the dream and watch the Amherst media to reconfirm what was being said. So I think that's one of the issues and it will take some discussion to go through these suggested all these changes. So, David, I recognize you. I see your hand up. Thank you. I agree. I think that that I'll be happy to vote on the minute. The minutes has drafted now. I do believe that there is that there do. Going more towards transcript than towards minutes and that they are encapsulating where they're trying to capture more editorial content, rather than the substance or gist of the meeting, which is what I would think that the minutes would do. So I think we're getting close, but for the purpose of staff time and our own time, I'd be, you know, willing to vote and approve them. But I do think that we should be cautioned about going overboard in trying to represent such detail and inevitably capturing one or two points of view rather than just the gist of the meeting. Thank you. I just want to add part of so I did go back and watch video and minutes are not exposed to express personal opinion of ours. That's one of the reasons why we don't do the minutes and like Pam does them and tries to capture the general flavor. So some of the words that have been suggested when I went back and watch the video. It's not exact. It's not exactly what happened. The other part is some of it is she's adding comments to other people what they said. And I just want to make sure, you know, like she altered things that like Michael, which Michael says he's fine. I don't know if Doug has looked at the paragraph that she wrote about what he said. So I just want to make sure that people are comfortable with that. I know when I go over minutes. I mean, especially these were talking 20 pages of minutes here. I mostly look the hardest on what I was quoted and saying because that's what I remember best to I can't always remember what other people said exactly. So I see a visual and I'll call on you and then I see Michael's next. Well, I, if you went back to review the track of the recording and if things were captured in the revised minutes that did not your review of the recording were not present that I'm not comfortable, I'm not proving the minutes as draft as currently drafted. And so I would rather than table it within the, the work to do to review the meeting. But I think then we've crossed over a line in the, the, the detail that the minutes are trying to capture again rather than the chest. This is not a transcript. This is the purpose of the recording. That's, thank you. So I would, I would rather table the vote of the minutes if there is an apparent, you know, uncomfortableness between the actual recording and the, the currently revised draft. Thank you. Thank you. I recognize I think Michael, do you still, I see your hand went down, but do you still want to talk. We're going to close this up, actually. I have to sorry I got so many screens here. Oh, yes, you're rolled up there. Yes. And then next is done. Go ahead, Michael. I did not review the minutes and watch the video of the meeting at the same time. I review the minutes, basically, having a having felt that the original minutes were reasonable. And reviewing the, the suggestions and additions that Janet had put in, particularly, particularly you're looking at the the minutes the section of the minutes that was attributed to me I found that reasonable the attribution to my to what I said found that reasonable again without reviewing the minutes in terms of what I said I think that's what I would have probably would have said or would hope to have said and so I approve the minutes I would suggest we approve based on that if other people have not reviewed the minutes relative to what they individually said then I think we should wait until people have a chance to do that but it seems to me the minutes ought to reflect what the primarily what the individual members of the board believe they intended to say whether in fact they said those exact words or not I think is less relevant than whether it represents their position on the issues so I would think that we ought to again following along with what David said everybody ought to look at what they said what they are quoted as saying or referenced to say and seeing if that supports what they if that represents what their position is and then if so then we should approve the minutes if not those individuals should adjust what is attributed to them. Good points Michael I just want to add that so most of the comments I want to a little bit push back on were beyond what we were saying it was what Mr. Reedy was saying what Mr. Mora was saying I don't think some of those additions were exactly you know it's a little bit it's perception and so right here like I'm uncomfortable you know I don't want it to be she says she says if I'm like oh you know Janet wrote this but then I went and looked at the video and that's not how I see it I think I would rather just I'd be comfortable with just sending an email to Chris and Pam on the the comments that I have an issue with and why and that they can go look at the video or go back to their minutes and adjust because there should be a continuity in these minutes too. So that's where I'm at right now I you know I don't want to waste more of our time debating on like oh well you know and me reading what actually was said at the video it's can we just do that and then I'm going to recognize Doug next and then Janet and Chris and Pam think about it you know what you think might be best here. Doug? Yeah I thought I had reviewed the minutes but I'd only looked at the first few pages and I was unaware of the rest of it so I am one of those who didn't get a real chance to look through the whole thing you know we we're close to having a full conversation today about the minutes you know if if we we're not ready to vote on them with or without those amendments then I think we should table and move on. Okay Janet I recognize you. So I you know when I first looked at these minutes I thought that some of the information I had presented on parking at Main Street LLC all that information wasn't there and that kind of got me wondering why that wasn't there and so I did listen to the transcript I didn't listen to the whole thing but as I went ahead to the discussion on the master plan looking for Michael's comments because I remember him saying something I always started to really listen to the meeting and what Rob Mora was saying about the process for working with closely with the zoning subcommittee and the planning board and none of that really came out in the minutes and it seems really important to me that that process that he was outlying which is flexible and working closely with both committees and the need for consultants for the bigger issues and the need to work with people in the town to get their support for the bigger questions about like how big should buildings be in downtown that wasn't in the minutes and so that seemed really important to me so I actually I maybe I should do this more often I found that discussion on the master plan very rich and very deep and I felt like you know maybe because they're very long minutes all those things weren't captured another reason it sort of popped out as being important to me is I was at a CRC meeting and they were talking about maybe getting rid of the zoning subcommittee and you know kind of pushing back a little bit on the planning board's role in zoning changes and I just thought you know that is all fine I guess but you know when we talked to Mr. Mora it was a very different understanding of how the planning department Mr. Mora and the planning board and the zoning subcommittee are working together so that seems important to me to put in so I didn't expect to put that in there I just saw it as very important but I really do think people should be comfortable with it and not vote on something they don't know the other thing is is that minutes are supposed to help people who are like for people who aren't the meeting should understand what was said and so I know we have different views on that but it seemed to me most of the things I put in were important things that people said so that's all I had to say but I do think we should postpone until everyone's read it thank you Doug I still see your hand up I don't know if you still want to speak or just I should put it down I will do that now okay thank you um so Chris can we do that Chris Bestrup are you there we can't hear you is your volume is your mic turned on I just turned it on um so you what would you like us to do include the edited minutes in your next packet um I think everybody should review uh the added comments um this is hard because we're talking about um two and a half months ago I mean I can barely remember sometimes in COVID what I ate yesterday um so that's why I did go back to the video but everybody should look and like Michael said I mean if it's what you're saying as long as you're comfortable with it but if you want to make edits send them to Chris and Pam um and if you have any concerns about what was added um like I have a couple just because I watched the video that I will send so if you could incorporate those and then reassure them and then hopefully we can get these passed uh at the next meeting does that sound okay Chris sure and if anyone has a problem or I forgot something raise your hand and I'll call on you I look I see Michael I think we ought to make a point make it clear that those there ought to be a deadline on those submissions to Chris good good good yep yep calendar good point Michael um Chris how about well how about we just do it by next Wednesday I mean let's just do it once I mean I'm joking saying well it's fresh in our minds um how about by next Wednesday you have to get the comments to Chris please review them and let's really try to do it so that we're not here two weeks from now I'm like oh I still haven't looked at them um good all right I think we can move forward I don't see any hands um so I'll move to item two public comment period this is uh okay this is where Pam and I work together here um this is where people uh the public can call in or zoom in and give a comment on something that is not on our agenda tonight something different so um you'll have opportunities to speak later I'm looking you'd have to click your raise hand and I'm not seeing any and Pam I'm checking with you that do we have anyone on phone calls right now or we have someone on phone call but they are not requesting to speak great okay I think you got that great so we will move on thank you so we're going to go to public hearings site plan review uh it's um 652 so we can open um our first public hearing so in accordance uh with the provisions of mgl chapter 40a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding spr dash c 2020 dash 08 dash russ wilson 11 vista terrace apple wood cluster subdivision request site plan review approval to amend spr dash c 2017 dash 14 to add a three season room to an existing house 16 by 20 feet with a fireplace screen clear poly movable panels floor decking frame roof with asphalt shingles including a wooden walkway to connect to an existing wooden deck map 25 b dash 76 r dash ld zoning district so hearing is open first thing i'm going to ask i'm looking at for hands are there any board member disclosures uh nope hands going up uh i don't see any board members saying they have a disclosure but i do see chris bestrup has her hand up i recognize chris bestrup so um i just wanted to mention that the person who's here as an attendee uh on the phone is russ wilson so um he would be a good person to recognize now and have him make his presentation and then pam will probably have to tell him to hit star nine i guess is that right um i just allowed him to speak can he here he is down here okay russ can you hear us yes i can hear you we can hear you welcome hi thank you welcome if you could just introduce yourself i'm russ wilson i'm a building contractor doing a small subdivision cluster development down in south amazon contractor working for paul kohl who owns it the house that we're talking about we're looking to put on a three season room it will be on peers it'll be us basically a deck with screening under the deck posts going up to the roof and in between the posts will be a combination of very tough poly panels and screen the poly panel to be able to move up and down in sections um it'll be a cathedral ceiling with a pine paneling on the ceiling a couple of skylights attached to the house it'll create a couple valleys up on the roof um and then we'll be putting a deck connecting the new three season room to the existing deck sounds lovely it will be um we originally designed it as a freestanding unit and uh the owner was talking to her sister and her sister uh pretty much insisted that it get attached to the house that it would get a lot more use and i think from the you probably have the 3d drawings and so forth one of which is from in the house looking out into the three season room and it definitely pulls you out toward it it does it looks beautiful and um this is this kind of thing doesn't usually come to us but it's coming to us i believe and chris bestrup can confirm this uh it was part of the conditions the record of decision for the subdivision uh the second one the condition says the applicant should return to the planning board for approval at the public meeting if there are any significant changes to the footprints of the building so i'm assuming it's a three season porch but this is expanding the footprint and that's why you're here asking for the site plan review correct okay and hopefully after this hopeful approval we will then go and uh have the wording changed so we don't have to come and do this every time somebody wants to add on to one of these houses that makes sense um okay if you don't have anything to add at this time um i'm gonna go and ask for um one of the members who attended the site visit i don't know if that was discussed if someone was willing to do it or if they want to raise their hand michael oh michael michael so it uh yeah five members of the planning board were at the site at the site plan visit um and we saw uh at the back of the house the house fronts on uh on vista drive they're on the back of the house a neatly staked out area which showed what the footprint would be like for the proposed addition and how it would connect to the existing house and to the existing deck on the uh what it would be i guess the west side of the addition and observed the relationship of the addition proposed addition to the back uh of uh lot line and to the side lot line and um that's about what we saw sounds good thank you um at this time i'll open it up to um the board if they have any specific questions to ask the applicant or miss bestrip and i'm watching for hands here scrolling i don't see any hands raised i mean this is pretty straight forward um so at this point i'll ask the public so i'm switching to the attendees to see if there's any hands raised here if there's anyone who wants to ask a question or make a comment about this i see nothing um so at this point there's nothing for the applicant to respond to so we're moving to find new comments um and questions chrysalm do you have anything to add or can we move to make a motion here i just wanted to say that i received a nice phone call today from um mr. Jacques who lives on west street and he his property is directly adjacent to this property and he said he and his wife are fine with what is being proposed his only hope is that they don't have any loud parties unless they're invited that's right and it won't be till after covid so um that's nice thank you chris is there anything else that we need to acknowledge or we're not really dealing with the um the condition right now we're just doing this spr and now we're gonna uh vote on it yeah i did send you information about um the lot area and building coverage and lot coverage and that all looks good and i sent you some suggested conditions and one finding oh great this is where i can read this if you want me to if you start reading then i can take over let me just i'm logging in to pull it up on my other computer yep go ahead okay so the suggested conditions are number one the three season room and wooden walkway shall be built substantially in accordance with the plans submitted to the planning board and approved on x date number two the three season room and wooden walkway shall be managed substantially in accordance with the management plan submitted to the planning board and approved on x date and then the finding is the usual generic finding the board finds that the proposal meets all of the relevant relevant requirements of section 11.24 of the zoning bylaw that seems very straightforward um i do see two hands at this time chris i see i recognize david i don't know what or you came in i'm sorry but i'm going to recognize david and then michael next hi thank you um the the the suggestion of expediting future site plan reviews for changes of footprints makes sense makes it was was suggested yesterday makes sense to me um however in thinking about it this one lot in the cluster subdivision somewhat is somewhat unique from the other lots in the space that it has to expand its footprint and so i'm a while while wanting to be efficient effective for the developer and for the board i'm i'm i'm also a little bit concerned about about having a blanket approval for changes to the plans as previously submitted because the other lots did not have the same kind of lot coverage and front and frontage and side setbacks as this lot and so and so i'm much more ambivalent about about the blanket approval um for subsequent changes than i had been yesterday looking at this one site plan and so that that that that that's all what that's worth um some good points um david i just uh want to say that we're not voting on that right now that would be something in the future um and it could be handled uh have we handled a lot of things now it sort of goes through like uh the building commissioner or you know the director of planning and they could make a judgment call that can be sort of written in there you know i agree i agree this was just on that second future further point that's all great great and i'm sure chris took that down she's nodding her head so um michael you're oh well first i'll just chris do you want to speak to that yes i wanted to say that if um if the applicant wants to change the conditions of the previous site plan review they would file a request to amend the previous site plan review to allow future changes to be made and the way it might be approved is that um things would come to the planning board for the for at a public meeting so they wouldn't go through the public hearing process and then the planning board would make a determination about whether the change is big enough to require them to go through a whole site plan review process so that's probably what i would recommend but that's not part of what you're reviewing tonight that would be for a future um application thank you chris i'm going to go back to michael now uh yes i'd like to move to close the public hearing and approve the plans as proposed with the conditions and findings that miss breastrupt uh mentioned a moment ago attached someone want to raise a hand to second that i see a physical hand of david being raised and dugs all right thank you um so now are there any other questions uh comments from the board uh does the applicant feel he needs to say anything because i can't see your face so we're doing this sort of um no i don't i don't feel like i need to say anything at this point okay great um and i see no hands so if we're ready to take uh vote um i see no hands we can do a roll call so i will start with when i had my list and then i moved it well i can start here we go michael i think that was a yes you got a little chopped up there on my side here oh yes i approve okay great um maria yes approved okay great uh jack yes david approved dug yes janet yes and i also say yes approve so that's unanimous um seven we'll move forward great thank you very much good luck it looks beautiful i i'm looking forward to the parties all right well thank you very much it really does look beautiful thank you for um coming thank you okay so panelists now we move on to the next thing good night thank you so weird all i see is just like the picture of a phone so bye thank you okay so um that's done we're gonna move on to reopening an old hearing i'm just looking at my going through the paperwork okay excuse me yes oh thank you when i'm looking down i can't see i'm looking for um nate and if i am can find me you're looking for what chris nate maloy i'm here now he's there i just moved him in there he is okay because i didn't want to have to give the presentation thank you nate oh yeah sure i've been i've been an attendee listening yes i saw you hiding in there i lost my screen there we go oh boy okay so um are there slides for for this pam do you have those i was gonna share my i was gonna share my screen um are we ready for that or okay yes i'm good you can pull that up on as i read the open up the hearing again okay so it is now 707 in accordance with the provisions of mgl chapter 40a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and uh is being continued from the planning board meeting of may 6th this hearing is being held for the purpose of providing an opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding SPR 2020-07 town of amherst east pleasant street kendrick park playground request to approve or approval request approval to construct a playground walkways seating areas and other site improvements for a public park under section 3.335 of the zoning bylaw map 11c-244 rg zoning district so since we already had um the first public hearing two weeks ago we're going to go right to the applicant's presentation so i can see that we're trying to what is going on right oh they're in the process of sharing i think can everyone see it i can just name the law i can barely hear you we can i can hear you Nate and right now i'm seeing half of the agenda and launching zoom so whatever you're looking at Pam is not what we're seeing i think i have the i have the card screen schematic yeah so yeah so is it me is it you driving right now or is it Pam it's Nate i thought it was me you want me to try and share it so i mean um i let me stop sharing and then i can resume it so why do people see now just i see half of an agenda oh i'm sorry i see launching yeah this this is not i'm sure i i've launched it again so there should be a colored uh schematic you know a plan is that there's no people i have that that's what i see yes i can see it i can see it too christine it doesn't sound okay now because sounds like i've been funking around i see nothing but give me a second here it looks like you're freezing up christine i'm gonna i'm gonna come back in i'll be right back no no it's okay i'll just i'm just gonna pop out and then pop back in all right see in a minute all right i guess we'll wait for the uh the discussion until christine comes back we've lost our leader still there i'm trying to like get out of this thing ah i'm telling you we're gonna be zoom experts by the end of this we don't seem to be like that now someone could just email christine that image um good hold on can other members of the planning board see the image i can see the image i can see it i can i see a color schematic with yeah okay i think i fixed it i see it i'm fixing everything so i'm like things back can you hear me all right yes yes and good okay so you're you're up and sure great thanks everyone the um i'll walk through this plan and then uh we also um went to the designer view board earlier this week and i can talk about their comments and so you know if we're if you can see the my cursor you know the the play area someone called it ochre i'm not sure how it looks on your screens but this area hasn't changed much what has changed is heading north so north is to the right you know we had talked about the plans last time there was a rough sketch and then the plans actually showed a hillside slide up here with some topography and really what what's happened is we we've eliminated any hillside slide and we've made this pathway that is essentially a grade to create an accessible loop you know walkway that connects here so this becomes a nice accessible path uh there is a still a bit of a hill here so there's still the amphitheater in the hillside with with seating in the rock stage area as you move further north there's um some planting beds in the circles here that connect across the path these are vertical stumps that are in the ground this grass area is actually um earth you know uh their mount it's mounted uh grass so you know like three to four foot high mounds there's two or three of them in here so it's an undulating surface that would be sod as you come over here to this part of the of the pathway system there's some seating and then this darker area this is actually a keystone loose keystone gravel area for kids to play in in lieu of a sandbox with some seating around it and then one other big change that's happened is this area with the circles this is all these are all vertical logs here's logs that are on their side that would be staked into the ground but this whole area now to the east of this um play area is a naturalized play area with wood fiber there'll be stumps and rocks and logs in there so this area will you know there'll be a connection from the manufactured play area uh to here to the gravel area so this becomes you know a really um integral part of the playground design and uh what's not shown here on the plans is we're considering you know two picnic tables or a few picnic tables that would be located in this area if we look around the plan um things shown in i'll say it's like pink those are stone seating walls or stone blocks but all you know 18 to 22 inches high that would be used for seating and if we're looking along this western boundary along with pleasant we have you know an arrangement of sitting walls benches here in brown and then plantings and then sitting blocks and plantings boulders and then a sitting wall but you know this is really forming a natural barrier rather than a fence and also offers sitting opportunities um there's um you know if we keep continue around there's more stone sitting and then there's benches there's a total of five or six benches a number of stone areas to sit the benches range and from six to eight feet in length they'll all have backs and arms and i'll show an image later and they may have arms in the middle too for helping people get up and down um this um this sitting area this pausa area um you know at the last hearing there was a suggestion if it could be made much bigger um it's hard to see but there's an existing really mature tree with its with its canopy coming in here and so we're already encroaching within the drip line of the tree so we're really trying to minimize and save it it's a 30 inch maple so we're already encroaching a little bit underneath it and there was a decision you know not to make this too much bigger also because of topography so in lieu of really enlarging the sitting area the idea is having some picnic tables that could be placed around the walkways as we move further east here again just as a east pleasant street is down here the idea is to have planting beds boulders are shown in orange and the agility area that has stumps and logs to create another natural barrier for fencing and for visual interest and for sitting the um there's only three trash cans here there's one at the main entrances and one up here at the north the idea is that you know there'll be um they'll look like the depth the trash cans downtown will be half recycling and half trash the um this walkway has shown in the gray this is the east west walkway and it will be illuminated there's some um light poles shown along the walk here there's four or five of them so this becomes you know a sidewalk that is maintained year round um there's also plans to run conduit there's a number of possibilities of putting light posts further into the park and so as part of this project we're going to run conduit with the anticipation at some time that maybe there'll be some light posts further in the play area that's not happening now for the light posts going along this walkway um we're going to reuse some existing lighting from downtown so the acorn style lights that are in downtown and when if there's a plan for another lighting um design within kendrick park or this area of downtown we would just swap out the light posts in the you know in the headlights the lantern pieces but for now we'll reuse what is um seen downtown i think uh one thing you know this this design does really respond to there's a lot of existing trees so some of this um circular paths or you know the this shape this pattern is really working with existing trees and topography um and it was also decided that keeping this mostly at grade allows for future connections to the north or across the park a lot more easily than having you know a mound with a with a slide that became an expensive option once we started talking to vendors and it wasn't really you know it may have only been a four foot long slide and it would need to be on concrete posts with rubberized surface around it and it just wasn't as nice of a um an implementation as an idea so i think you know if you want to align and if you google hillside slide you might see some really great images but we really didn't have the height or the you know the space to make something that you'd see online um when we went to the designer view board this week they asked about having some demarcation in this play area of of a walkway and so this whole area in in what i don't know it was yellow or orange on your screen or anyways this is all rubberized and that's because it's the some of the play equipment the fall zones come within what would be if there was a five foot walkway but it's it's easy enough with this surface to have different colored treatment and so we would have an offset here to show a five to six foot walkway around the perimeter of this area to match the width of this walkway so you know it's still be a rubberized surface and it's you know only um equipment is not right in this area but you know that way it indicates that there is a continuous walkway that connects to the east west path so it's something that would be a visual cue that someone could walk through here and you know it's it's rubberized so it's accessible it's smooth it's you know all these there's no lips or or steps here uh it's it's a pretty seamless transition between materials i'm gonna start another presentation just showing the amenities i would have on the site so um this is the style bench we're looking at it's not necessarily the color but this is you know it's an all metal bench with arms and there could be a middle arm ideas that they'd be set either on um you know on concrete or there'd be footings you know concrete footings underneath just the feet of the bench but this is the style bench i can make this a little smaller if it's i don't know how it's how visible that is within the plaza area the round table and chairs this is again the style we'd have for an accessible table with chairs you know just be missing one um one one chair but you know it's all one piece but here's the type of trash can that we have downtown so it's a 40-gallon trash can with half recycling half trash and for the picnic tables um i guess there's a trash can twice for the picnic tables it's something similar to this it's an you know all one piece we would probably get flat seats and a flat top and it would be all metal um you can get it in recycled plastic or have wood components but we're looking at getting all metal for durability um these could be staked into the ground um and they'd be you know six to eight feet in length the colors we're looking at are um there's three colors the the company offers probably about you know 18 different colors most of them are quite bright um you know or it's like silver metallic and black so we're looking at either uh like all carlsbad sudan or juniper green but um they're you know muted color we've asked for additional images with these um just to confirm if we like them in those bench styles and table styles but you know it'd be something that would be not too dark to attract the heat and nothing too um you know too off putting like a bright red or a bright blue or green which they do offer and you know maybe in a thematic park that would be fine but that's not what we're asking for here so there is you know this style this these color options one thing just to it was in the plants that i'm just calling out separately there's this little planter island here um it also serves the purpose of holding a welcome sign and you know the idea would be that it complies with the zoning so it would not exceed 12 square feet it'd be three feet by four feet or four feet by three feet um we're looking at having it um you know a two-sided sign that is set between four by four stone pillars the um you know there's a great comment at the design review board to acknowledge the cpa funding you also have to acknowledge the park grant and um you know also the um the playground on the backside would be rules and regulations and you know i've heard from the vendors that we also need to have um some signs describing kind of the safety of the equipment which they provide which could be mounted on the back of the sign so there's you know it would be a two-sided sign i think i've showed this before but this is again just showing what we'd be considering for the stone seating so this is you know what could be actually the stone the square stone blocks here's the type of stone sitting wall that would be around the amphitheater and on parts of the walkway and when we're looking at you know placing boulders around certain parts of the edges and here's keystone so you can see how you know this type of material would interact and how stones interact along an edge further grass mounds we really are considering something you know maybe not quite this big maybe closer to this picture but you know having a few of these on that north area in place of the hillside slide so it would be you know an area with natural grass and something that um you know kids can can play on and roll around and i think as you mentioned the logs you know the naturalized area now is quite is bigger and we'd have you know about eight inches of a wood fiber on the ground we'd have logs that could be stacked up a little bit they'd all be secured to the ground with threaded rod you know so they'd be anchored with a rod that goes into the ground and people could sit on them or climb on them these these are images of plasque park and so these logs are over here in the image here's some wood they used some wood fiber and then here are the vertical logs and so you know we're going to have a similar element you know in the in connecting the different areas of the play area in terms of the manufactured equipment um you know we're still keeping some of these major elements we we've met with the vendor today and you know this is an accessible spinner which we like you know it's accurate and it can hold the number of people you know the colors are can be changed so we've asked for a different color palette but um you know these two play structures this is a pretty large play structure for five or twelve year olds this is two to five we've asked for a different roof material here a metal roof but we like the idea of having a roof here to provide some shade this is a spinner we've asked for a different type of rocker here not something that looks like a tractor and to the north where the walkways are right now there are you know they've shown two um two musical drums and we've asked for um you know different types of um you know something at grade that can be used something that maybe moves or is mechanical and so they were looking at you know possibly a sundial or some other things but what's nice about this is it's outside the um the fall zone of this equipment and if it's at grade it can also be accessible so we're looking at some features there there's just other views of the equipment um you know there is a lot of and each each one of these structures offers you know each you know each has a climbing wall a few slides a net or overhead climbers that people can use places to sit underneath and on top and um so you know we've asked for just a few you know modifications to these structures but not a lot um you know we do like the idea that there's many different play elements and we think that changing some of the color palettes will lessen the you know kind of the you know maybe the fact that that it is manufactured we're not trying to go with a synthetic or faux looking tree trunks um that's cost prohibitive and I think we think it would actually look worse um and I think that's it for now I mean there's a you know a detailed plan set I won't go through if there's questions I can use those um I think that's it for now um Nate if you could just just to enhance something you were talking about go to sheet five that shows the grading excavation plan just it has two mounds there if you just do it's a few but I see one is about five feet grade yeah and the other's like three right so you know yeah it you know it would be looked at there'd be you know a little hill hill like this you're if you're following my mouse then you know another hill here right so there is just two um and I think you know the slopes are three to one in there I think there was a four to one so they you know they are you know if they're too much steeper they won't support um grass and it could get dangerous so we're keeping that um these here so that's why the bigger one is like five feet and the one the small one is only like three feet three feet right okay yeah I mean a five foot hill and that's all I think that would still be pretty fun for kids to play on oh when you're two feet tall that's a mountain um thank you um I'm going to open it up to board questions so I'll be watching for hands um if anyone has any questions on on what we're being presented with and and questions on the on the new information that has come on these drawings so I see one hand so far I see Janet so I call on Janet and I'll be watching for other hands I'm not sure this is the right moment but I was hoping that um it could review the management plan quickly it it might be later after the diagrams I just wanted to hear that geez it's we have a core of volunteers who are going to be out there every day um no I think you know we we said it was um you know there had been a lot of questions about maintenance of this um of the park and so you know I will say that the plantings were looking at if we if I go back to this plan um and there were some questions about the plantings and so there's a mix of ground cover um um small trees and shrubs and then some you know we're planting some what would be some shade trees and you know we're working with Alan Snow the tree warden and other and paul deathier and bar bills and we're looking at um bar promels and sea but we're looking at you know plants that are once established are pretty tolerant of condition so you know that that would be that they don't need a lot of maintenance or water and they're pretty hardy in terms of both climate and um use by the public in terms of maintaining the park you know dpw goes around daily to the parks and opens them up um you know does some trash pick up and you know just does a quick inspection a visual inspection of places so it would be a similar routine and then you know there's weekly mowing or or other maintenance you know the idea is that the park would not be would be open seasonally um you know we wouldn't be paving anything other than this walkway in the winter so you know this becomes you know essentially closed in the off season it's um you know for now there's no lighting so it would be open just dawn till dusk um and so you know there's a some daily work and then weekly work and then you know at every park they're seasonal um kind of start up and close up and then sometimes like a mid season um work day you know where there's you know they there's a little more in-depth cleaning or you know if there's capital work that needs to be done capital improvements they do that so I think it's kind of daily you know there's chores weekly and then seasonally. Nate just to put it in a bigger perspective we've got some other things I know you're familiar with golf park and that's progressing and there's a dog park and we have other playgrounds so this park would just become part of a larger management plan I'm assuming that Ellen Snow and the DPW they may have to maintain all of these things so. Thank you right right and I think you know I think I don't know if I mentioned it last time but you know that I think there's an awareness that as the town makes improvements to the outdoor spaces whether it's for recreation or conservation and on other parks passive recreation active you know there there may need to be a budget increase you know there is seasonal staff and then there's um you know permanent staff at public works that maintain parks and so yeah I think this becomes part of their rotation I think um you know I like I said I think once everything I think for the first year you know there's gonna be some watering and there'll be a little bit more effort to establish the park but once things once you know the plants and vegetation are growing um the really shouldn't be much maintenance the playground equipment is you know supposed to be durable and the surfacing is supposed to be all good for you know I don't want to say you know they will say 25 years I don't know if it lasts that long but you know everything is really meant to be you know maintenance free in terms of large capital needs for you know at least 10 15 years thank you um I do see Maria I'm going to call on Chris first and then Maria so we did as I said previously we did um do this plan with Alan Snow the tree warden who's also in charge of parks maintenance and paul death here who's on the staff of the dpw he's a landscape architect and an engineer and so they have a you know a sensitivity about maintenance issues we also um I remember last time jan had asked a question about watering and so we did ask that question and guilford mooring the superintendent of public works said that they may install a hydrant here um where someone could you know make a connection and have a hose and water things they also have a water truck that they can bring around and according to Alan snow he thought that the plantings would really need watering during the first year but um since they are hardy and a lot of native plants um he felt that after the first year of watering that they would be um pretty self-sufficient so I just wanted to let you know that we had looked into that thank you Chris I recognize Maria okay um first I just want to say uh I think that this design by committee and um the design by multiple you know groups and committees has been really successful I I hope this is a model for like how other public projects can happen because it really seems like you've taken the feedback and um incorporated it and I really like the multiple seating options because this is a really sort of community building space and um it's not just for the kids obviously it's for the parents and anyone you know to come and just sit and mingle and so um I think I think you've added a lot more seating from the last time we saw it um so I really appreciate that and um the only question I had was maybe it's not worth talking about now but art or maybe I missed it but what is this little this little art display parallelogram you have on the south did you already discuss that or did I miss it no I think when um when there was the art installation at Kendrick park um can you put the mouse on it so people are sorry yeah it's further it's not within our project scope but there's this area here um I don't know if we can see that it's it's to the you know it's to the south or you know to the left on the screen uh you know there has been some consideration for public art there had been some discussion you know of trying to have a space within the sitting area which originally there was this little area here which he removed but we've always considered that there could be spaces along the edge for for for display of public art I think this one is um is there because when there was the outdoor sculpture um there was you know there was a few pieces that were put in the park and so this is an area that works um for having a piece so that's something there um something off of what Maria said I want to double that that I do think uh I see extra seating and and I want us one of the people who was concerned that the only table eating areas that circular um section to the west so I was really glad to hear Nate when you were saying that you were considering putting picnic tables um by that 30 inch maple in the dead center um you know because I I do you know we hope that it will be used and people will come and and be hanging out and spending the day and picnicking and letting their kids play so yeah I thought that was a good fix for that yeah I think the idea would be to use um have two picnic tables two eight foot tables to start and then you know Alan and everyone agreed that if you know this becomes a really popular destination it's it's you know we can add more um yeah that sounds great thanks and I was also glad to see the bike racks that's great the bike lock up so um I am going to recognize Chris in case she has a comment and then I see Michael so I just wanted to mention that Nate and I actually had a zoom meeting with some um interested members of the public who have been following this project and um you know one of them was really hoping that we could incorporate some playground equipment that she had seen in Europe and um Nate did make an effort to find out about some of that equipment and um you know Europe European accessibility requirements and liability issues and different things like that make it difficult for us to incorporate those kinds of um play equipment here it may be possible in the future to incorporate some of those as um you know our manufacturers look over there and see what they're doing and try to you know adapt it to us but I just wanted to let you know that we did reach out and we had a I thought it was a very good conversation with three people who have been following this project all along who had feelings about wanting more natural play equipment and more European style equipment um I think that they I came away from the meeting feeling that they understood you know that we were trying to balance things we wanted to make sure that the equipment was safe and that it would withstand liability issues and that it was handicapped accessible but at the same time we are providing this agility area to the east or down at the bottom of the of what you see as a colored plan just kind of balance this out and make people feel like there are natural features here that that children can play with so I just wanted to let you know that we we didn't not hear those people we heard what they were saying and we tried to incorporate some of their ideas to the extent possible and it may be possible in the future to put other features in as the park develops further. Thanks Chris. You know Chris's point I think sorry I just want to jump in right now go ahead. All right one was um I can't see everyone one was a ground level trampoline um which may um you know if you online you can you know some of the images were from Berlin and there's some abroad and they do look like fun so the vendor said the um the compliance engineer had said that the you know the US and this is looking at it but right now it doesn't meet the standards and he thought it could be a year or two away so he listed a number of things with why you know wouldn't necessarily be they couldn't they wouldn't install it now so I don't we couldn't find a vendor who would install it um and one another one that was a nice suggestion if we you know may or may not happen in this phase but I'm going to share a new share was um outdoor ping pong tables people can see these now they can be made out of concrete um Portland has a number of them and um you know and I guess um there are you know there are there are a number of cities that have them so that was a nice suggestion and so it's it's um you know we had it we haven't you know if we haven't necessarily incorporated it into the design it was just mentioned today but that's another um feature that could be um installed later or you know part of you know incorporated into Kendrick park as a whole so if it's not within this play area we like the idea of having some other features that could be um you know incorporated into all of Kendrick park so that's something that we you know we're we're taking under consideration great thanks uh michael and then next will be david yeah I want to echo uh my appreciation for the where the process has evolved the project has evolved through all kinds of different inputs that's been excellent uh and particularly with regard to the addition of more seating in the in the general area uh and to uh perhaps go further than is our purview I would like to suggest that the picnic tables that Nate showed the with the rounded seats would I think be much more uh much better than the ones with the flat seats because they would encourage people to be able to sit both directions on the picnic table which often happens when you're in park like settings so I would I would urge you to not go for the flat ones go for the curved ones but I think I think the project is exceptional oh great thanks so the rounded seats and that's um that's good feedback it's funny um you know sometimes you know you have a something in mind and you're not you know I'm not sure what works better but that's a I like that point about the rounded seats that is probably actually more comfortable and then it facilitates different sitting options um David hi thank you I'd like again to commend Nate and the team and Chris for bringing this together and being as responsive as they have been I would like I would propose a motion to approve the park the presentation uh and the the proposal as presented with the design review board comments um the the differentiation of the the colors for the walkway around the play area and then the sign with the acknowledgement of the CPAC money um thank you and thank you Nate for all the work that you've you've put into try to maximize the funding for and and maximize the play in downtown thank you michael are you seconding I second the motion okay I just I think we can do that but I have to open it up to public comment and just check for that and then we'll come back to this I don't know if we have to say it again but let's we've got that there so at this time I'm going to ask if there's anyone uh the attendees that would like I just saw one pop up um I see one hand um so at this time and um Pam is there anyone on the phone or is this all that I see all always see is miss Pam okay so I'll recognize um Dorothy Pam hello can you hear me we can hear you hello well I just want to say that was extremely agile uh of uh Chris to have had that meeting today because I got a call email earlier in the afternoon about current winter who's really been following this and she's and having suggestions I want to know how to get through the meeting and I said well I don't think you're gonna have a hand I don't know and she said what about chat I said we've turned it off for zoom bombers really reasons and I guess you must have had to have had that meeting today which I think is fabulous because um when interested people have questions and they get a really good answer then it it keeps them happy so I do applaud the changes that you've been making and I think this will be a great park so thank you great thank you um if uh now I see Karen winter's hand I recognize her Karen oh you're still muted Pam are you undoing her okay okay I wanted to thank Dorothy for um for being so accessible and the whole committee you've really been open and gone out of your way to hear me um and I'm also impressed with the way you've you've followed up on all this so thank you very much thank you um at this time these are the only hands up I see uh Dorothy's hand is still up right put it down because I think okay great okay so I'll go back to um us and I see Chris's hand up I recognize Chris and then I do see Michael's hand up but yeah Chris so I wanted to um just make a note that there were some conditions that were sent to you some yes proposed conditions um built substantially in accordance with the plans managed substantially in accordance with the management plan and then the usual one about landscaping um shall be installed in accordance with the planting plan and once installed shall be continually maintained and then um I wasn't sure if you wanted us to come back once we have um a complete idea of what we're doing with the equipment so you could add a fourth condition um stating that once we have finalized the equipment choices that we would come back and show them to you at a public meeting I'm going to ask the board members it uh well Michael can you put your hand down for a sec and then I'll come back to you I just want to ask board members um does raise your hand if you want playground structure to come back to us or if you're good with the planning department the DPW at this point selecting it so raise your hand if you want it to come back to planning board one two three I don't see any hands so I think we're good Chris um I think we've seen enough so I'll go back to Michael you had your hand up only uh to continue the second if that was relevant okay um so we do have a motion on the table and it's been seconded seconded and we've done public comment um is there anyone at this time who has something else that'd like to say or add or comment I don't see what a physical hand it's hard for me to watch both Chris I'll just um that uh to include um the finding that this uh plan meets all of the relevant requirements of section 11.24 of the zoning bylaw and does it or do I need to pull that out no I think it does okay so that and the conditions that's part of the motion and the second okay okay I'm not seeing any other hand so at this point I think we can take a vote I'm still watching so um so members I'll call your name and um say yay or nay or abstain please so I'll start with Michael approve and um I'm going out of normal Maria approve uh yak yes approve David approve um Doug approve and Janet approve and I also approve so that's unanimous seven votes so we're done with this hearing okay so we're gonna move on with our agenda um i'm just gonna Christine I just want to oh yeah and thank you Nate I was gonna think um you know I think there's a um you know Paul Death here at DPW has been doing most of the design and really working with the team and incorporating the comments I think he and Alan really deserve and you know shout out to Paul and especially Paul and also Alan and all of the DPW staff guilt all the way up to Guilford who's been working on this yeah and also Barb Bills from the LSSE she's been with us every step of the way yeah so yeah I think it's been a really nice collaborative effort so thanks for all the comments and uh thanks I'll stop sharing my screen Pam and then I guess I'll go back to you this is this has gone on for so long I kind of can't even believe it's happening I'm really excited okay so Pam do you want to put up the master plan we are going to go on to the master plan okay so we'll move to um item four whoops yep Chris do you want the document first or do you want Ben's slides put the document first all right you got it so I'm moving to item four master plan update Christine Bester planning director report on the master plan update with a focus on chapter three land use followed by questions and comments from the planning board members uh we won't at this time be taking public comment on this this is more of our first run we're just feeling out Christine Bester of the director of planning's first attempt at one chapter and feeling out the style and how it's being done and then um depending on how that goes tonight we will move to whoa things are changing here um we'll move um to the public process and how we're going to actually start doing this as different sections come out um so Chris is there it is great okay thank you Pam um so um we have decided to update our master plan um and do necessary and obvious changes and um that was determined by uh a joint agreement of the planning board and the CRC and I believe town council um as well so uh that's the approach that we are taking and um there are actually two or maybe more parts to the master plan the first part is the text which everybody is familiar with there are 10 chapters um and the 10 chapters are most of them the subject matter is defined by the state the state tells us what we need to include in our master plan um and then uh the the second part of it is um a series of appendices and the appendices provide additional information existing conditions etc um that relate to um the the topics that are in the chapters in the text chapters so when I first um started uh updating or you know thinking about how I was going to update the master plan I was really focused on the text portion and wasn't thinking so much about the need to update the appendices but I think now that we've really begun to get into it and have um you know studied it um we realize that we do need to at least make some changes to the appendices and one of the appendix appendices is appendix chapter six which is called land use so um when as I've been going through the text here of the land use section and I should say I chose the land use section because it's really the section that I'm most familiar with I mean that's what um the planning department is all about land use the other chapter is having to do with economic development and housing and demographics and natural and cultural resources we certainly uh touch on those but we're not as intimately involved in those topics as we are in um the topic of land use so I chose to go through the land use section first and um really just you know went through each paragraph and thought about well um what have we done in the last 10 years in in in terms of some of these topics now um so that my approach was to sort of in response to the notion that um people will wonder you know members of the public are going to wonder well we had this master plan and did it just sit on the shelf or did we actually take actions um in regard to what was recommended here and I remember that came up when we met with um town council and the CRC early on like well what have you done with this so um going kind of step by step through it I annotated this chapter of the master plan to um point out what we have done and to suggest uh areas that we might do more so I'll go through um some I don't know if you want me to go through all of the annotations but I can go through some of them um so with that said I did receive um a response to uh we had sent out this section of the master plan to the planning board actually I think we sent it out in March because we were supposed to have this discussion on March 18th and of course everything was shut down on March 16th so we couldn't um have this discussion then but I did receive a very thoughtful set of comments from Michael Burtwistle I received them well I think he sent them late on Friday this past Friday um I believe that's when he sent them anyway they were they were very thoughtful he went through this um really carefully and came back with a lot of thoughts his his approach would have been different from mine it would have been actually simpler and I didn't send his comments to you but I think I will um for the next time we discuss this so the only set of comments aside from a few minor comments that I received from Christine Graham Mullen back in March which I can tell you about um so this was the set of comments that I received his Michael's approach would have been to not focus on what we've done in the past and really make this a more forward-looking document um just talk about what we're going to do moving forward and not get into too much detail about what we have or haven't done so that's that's a different approach and once you see Michael's comments um once I send them to you you'll uh understand that and those would be included in the next packet when we when we talk about the master plan but going back to um the way I approached it it was really to try to you know fill in some of the gaps in knowledge um for instance on the first page of the land use section down at the bottom of the page existing conditions well the existing conditions of the current master plan were really determined back in I would say sometime between 2006 and 2010 that's when this master plan was written so it was based on the GIS the mass GIS and the town's GIS that were uh existing at that time and it was much different from the from the GIS that we have today and for those of you who aren't familiar I'm sure you're all familiar with but GIS is geographic information systems it gives us a tremendous amount of information about what's down on the ground so um what this master plan relied on was mass GIS from 1999 so that was really you know 20 years ago so um not only has the condition on the ground changed but the way of um measuring it the way of mapping it um what to map etc has all changed so when I asked um our new planner uh Ben Brager whom I'm I'm hoping that you will see more of him um as he starts working for us full time I asked him to work with the IT department to develop um the new information about current land use patterns and so what he found out was that it's really hard he can come up with what is here today but he has a hard time comparing it to what was here in 1999 because in some ways we're comparing apples to oranges and we can talk about that later when we look at at the information that he's given me so um so that uh is you know part of the introduction here is um we're seeking updated information about our land use patterns but it's going to be a mixed bag and we're going to have to put in some sort of disclaimer about um what information we had back then what information we have now and how it doesn't always mesh so um Pam maybe you could move to the next page and when we're talking about land consumption here's here's something that um really actually this is a question it didn't really make much sense to me go back to the 3.2 I think it is there we go so uh there was a statement here about um the size of lots and I'm not sure we care about that maybe we care about it but maybe we don't care about it this is a very confusing sentence to me since the year 2000 the total developed land area in Amherst that consists of residential lots larger than half an acre grew by 65 percent while Amherst's population remained relatively stable maybe that's something that we want to know about but it seems like a pretty obscure thing I guess the idea here was that our population was growing was was not growing but at the same time we were eating up more land to house um the same number of people and I guess you know you can see uh some examples of that if you look at some of the outlying subdivisions in town they probably have bigger uh land lot areas per house than um then we do in some of our inner subdivisions but that may or may not be something that we care about so um you know I did make an annotation about that but I'm not sure it's something that we're all that interested in my my observation was that most of the development in the last 20 years seems to have been um in the downtown area and in some of our more developed places in fact um we've experienced quite a bit of that since 2010 so um I would be interested in having input from planning board members about what they think about that phenomenon um the next paragraph land preservation priorities um we talk a lot about um the rural landscape that we have and how we've protected a lot of it well we do have some information about um new new protections that we've put on um and again we're seeking updates from the IT department and our staff um increasing land values and affordability concerns I don't know if I had anything to say about that um and you can keep scrolling down Pam until you come to the next. If you say what um section you're on Chris that will help us follow along too okay section C it's on this page that Pam is showing right now on the need to protect community character that's a pretty important one you can talk about that a lot um Amherst has wonderful community character and that's why a lot of people move here um so my comment was that Amherst was currently exploring the concept of design guidelines through planning for housing production we're really just doing that in the downtown area so far we're working with a consultant on the chapter 40 r project but I think that that may um enlighten us about design guidelines that we can use elsewhere um so that's in fact what I said their lessons from this project will help inform efforts to amend the zoning by-law and to incorporate design guidelines and form-based code we don't necessarily have to go through chapter 40 r and adopt it in order to learn from the design guidelines that are being presented to us um need to revise zoning codes in the next uh section um well we're all quite aware that we need to revise zoning codes the zoning code was um amended quite a bit after 2010 and that's what allowed more development downtown um maybe we want to reconsider some of that and um you know get a little bit more control of it but that's something that uh probably will be on our on plate going forward um so keep going Pam yep so what do we have here um what is the topic here I should be using looking at my paperwork instead of looking at the scrolling screen um so this um topic is preferentially direct future development to existing built up areas I think we're doing a pretty good job of that Chris can you just say like what section is it lu lu one b okay thank you that helps us follow on paper too um and the uh strategy is evaluate built up areas on the basis of their character quality and priority and then identify the areas to do various things um so the bottom of that um I'm not going to read this whole thing but um there was a comment about um strengthening code inspections revising existing mental registration regulations and encouraging alternative student housing efforts I think the town has come a long way in the last 10 years in regard to that we've really um we've hired inspectors we've enforced our building code we put in a rental registration program um and I think we can all see that the the look of the town has improved vastly since 2010 um and that's partially because we had um oh my goodness there was a task force that was set up to address safe and healthy neighborhoods that was it and I don't know if I mentioned that in particular here but um in my mind I think it's important to tell people what we've done to change things and make things better so that's something I would be looking to you to tell me do you want that in the master plan or don't you want it in the master plan do you think that's um history and you know we can just put it aside and go on to the next thing and um looking forward or is it um beneficial to point these things out to people um in the next paragraph LU1C use flexible zoning techniques such as form-based code to promote mixed use development I think we've done quite a bit of that and we've seen um success in North Amherst Village Center with the Beacon Project um in the East Amherst with um the new development that I'm here with Chi is building and also in the development that's just by the railroad tracks that Mr. Roboleski is building so um those um have uh are a result of of using more flexible zoning I think um oops the next page page six three point six you can stop me at any time if you have questions just raise your hand and Christine can recognize you I am watching for hands undertake rezoning efforts this is LU1D undertake rezoning efforts that direct more intensive development to appropriate areas and limit development in key resource areas so what I said was zoning amendments passed after 2010 allowed more density in downtown and village centers including mixed use buildings by side plan review and eliminating a lot area requirement per dwelling unit for certain zoning districts such as the BG, BVC and VN I think that was really important because before 2010 it was really hard to build buildings in the downtown that had residential units because there was a requirement for um lot area per dwelling unit and that would have been really hard to accommodate in the downtown and restrictions in height were also amended to allow five-story buildings in the general business district now that's something that um some people don't uh don't agree with and that may be something that um people want to look at and reconsider so uh but this just points that out the next one is LU1E revise existing zoning to encourage and include incentives for well-designed energy efficient infill redevelopment projects so we have experienced more infill redevelopment projects and one of them is the new project that's going in where the Amherst motel was was built and that is actually a kind of a re I won't say it's a rezoning but it's a reinterpretation of the zoning code to allow something like that to happen to allow an existing non-conforming use to be transformed into a new non-conforming use that's actually bigger um and in my mind it is um not more detrimental to the neighborhood and that's something that the zoning board found when it reviewed that project but I think that's a good use of an of a property that was relatively derelict in the past so a new interpretation of the zoning bylaw allowed um more dwelling units I think there are probably twice as many dwelling units as were in the Amherst motel and they're going to be nicer and more modern um let's see um what LU1F LU1F okay where is LU1F here I'm established programs to encourage economic development in existing developed areas IG economic opportunity area type programs well we did have some economic opportunity areas um back in the I guess it was the 80s and the 90s um some were established one of them was around Atkins farms market and it allowed Atkins to expand those are not as far as I know very active in in this day and age but we do have something called an opportunity zone and Nate and the former economic development director applied for a designation as an opportunity zone for North Amherst um we've we saw a lot of interest in this in the last uh couple of years we haven't seen much interest in it um recently but it allows developers to reduce their capital tax burden if they develop in these opportunity zones so that's something that we we um applied for and we did receive the designation we just haven't seen any uh development resulting from that yet um the next one is LU1G reduce energy use by encouraging new residences near supporting goods and services in transit so um the zoning bylaw was uh was amended and special permits have been granted to allow more residential development in downtown and village centers um which are the areas that already have supporting goods and services um and since 2010 the town has seen development or proposed development of housing in North Amherst village center east Amherst village center and the downtown I think I estimated that there are about 228 units and also along the Hampton road and university drive so we have gained um a large number of dwelling units in the last 10 years in multifamily developments in places that are already developed um here's one that um might go ahead and just to comment about this one is LU1H create mechanisms for transfer of development rights TDRs from key resource areas and agricultural lands to village centers downtown and other specific districts and neighborhoods where denser development is more appropriate so um I made a note that we actually received a grant from um Pioneer Valley Planning Commission and we worked with them uh back in 2012 to try to figure out if this um mechanism was appropriate for Amherst and what we discovered was that there may be a lot of uh areas in town that are interested in giving their development rights to someone else but there weren't very many areas in town that were interested in receiving the development rights so um for instance in North Amherst where um someone might own large tracts of land that potentially could be developed for subdivision residential subdivisions um potentially landowners could have um sold their development rights to someone who owned property in a more dense location like the North Amherst Village Center but it turned out that people who lived in the North Amherst Village Center weren't enthusiastic about receiving those development rights so this was kind of um it was dropped so Michael's comment was well why even leave it in here in the in the um master plan if we're not intending ever to do it so I thought that was a really good observation and my next iteration here will probably be to just take that out entirely I was a little bit um reluctant to do that on my own but since I've received comments from Michael that that would you know in his mind he thinks that that should be eliminated and perhaps other other people would think that too um let's see where are we now Chris can I interrupt one second because I know I I believe that you had said if people had questions to go ahead and raise their hand yeah we we do have two hands raised so I don't know if we just want to take a minute and check in with Maria and Doug or if this understood no thanks for noticing those hands go up um I'll start with Maria and then Doug all right I'll try not to knock over my iPad this time um this is a great first stab Chris and I'm glad that uh I heard you both in a few things before I sort of you know commented on my notes but generally I think I see a direction where you're taking examples of where this master plan is outdated because now we're in different time like that example you showed early on where we're not doing sprawl anymore we're doing more downtown development so that's something worth changing versus another type of change which is like Michael Burtwistle mentioned before I have a new direction as far as how I'm going to look forward that's another way to change the master plan so there's sort of the get rid of the outdated sort of notion of what we've been doing versus put in more things that look forward and that we want to do and I agree that just putting facts of what has been done isn't really master plan material in my mind it's sort of just unless it's saying we've done this and here's how we're going to take a next step I'm not sure it's worth putting into for example yeah that that last one you mentioned I found one sorry about the tbr I found one further out about um I forget where it was but there are examples where yeah it's probably not worth just listing um things that have been completed unless it leads to a next step so um I think you were asking for like input from us as a board about like and so I feel like that's my sense is if it's just something that says we tried it and it didn't work I'm not sure that's master plan worthy versus um let's see what was an example you gave uh the OU1C where you sort of explain the history of you know North Amherst and Atkins for unsuccessful of form-based zoning that's true maybe it's a way to instead say we are currently looking at form-based sorry form-based zoning with a 40R downtown um as a way to learn from for future guidelines so I think that's a better not spin but a better sort of way to word all that sort of red stuff that you're you're adding um but otherwise I think you're in the right direction as far as just maybe it's an organizational thing for you that you're just writing down what you have done and what the you know department in the town hall has done but I think the next layer is to think uh what would be the master plan text for what has been completed um because a lot of it was just sort of um this is what we've done and maybe we could send a list of like where we think you could just literally remove sections and then we could discuss that as a group because um some things yeah are pretty important and I might think it's worth removing but other people might think well I don't think that's appropriate we need to write something about next steps for that rather than just remove it so I'll try to compile my notes where I think some sections just simply are outdated or go away but um generally uh I kind of yeah I did a really quick skim today and that's my general take um but I do think that the the current form-based zoning exercise happening downtown could be referenced a lot more because a lot of the issues have to do with um streetscape and um scales of things and I think that that exercise can teach us a lot to learn from and then I guess my last point is just um as you go through this what is the goal for tonight do you want us to comb through paragraph by paragraph and give you feedback or is it just a way for you to explain your rationale because I'm a little worried it might take four hours to go through this I'm just wondering like what kind of input do you want from us tonight um it's not too late but may I respond yeah so this is the first chance you all have had to look at these annotations that I've made and I wanted to get a sense from you about whether you thought I was going in the right direction or whether there was something else that you thought I should be adding and so um you know Michael's take was that we should be leaving out things that we don't care about anymore and Michael and Maria are both saying that we should be talking more about what we're going to do proactively in the future having to do with any of these strategies and um not so wedded to what we have accomplished or um you know what what the past has to say about this so that's you know sorry that's good feedback for me I think it would be very helpful not to go through um you know step by step page by page tonight but if everybody could do the kind of review that Michael did and I I'm reluctant to send his to you because of a color what you say so what I would like to do is like get all the comments and then send them all out right and we can have a robust discussion and when we um when we send them all out we'll put them online and the public can see them so I think it'll have a more um there'll be a more rich discussion about this at a future date and that might maybe that would occur sometime in early July I'm thinking right now because we've got so many other things coming up in the near future and I had just one more question was one of the tasks of this master plan like light revision it was to do the sort of updating you're doing but also to fold in more green initiatives was that something that's part of the task or was that something that was like rumored that town council wanted to focus on no that was something that we were going to do and I didn't manage to incorporate it into my notifications here um Stephanie Chickarella who's the sustainability coordinator is reviewing the master plan and she's told me that she's going to give me her comments and her additions or you know whatever she would like to include and it would have to do with resilience and sustainability and climate change but I haven't heard from her yet about that just to expand a little on that Chris from what I'm remembering um just to remind everyone yes this is a master plan update light so we were trying to stay out of anything that's context and adding stuff that is like what we want and think now because as soon as we open that door well then we're all going to be in debate about is that included not included so we knew the safe way to go at this point was to at least update this document to make it more current it's because it's old right now and to make it better not a full new master plan and we want to keep it clean like with rules how we're updating it I am on the fence with removing things that are historical because this one thing I have learned in my many years of being on committees is things are forgotten because people change staff changes people change committees change and it's hard for us to remember as a planning board what happened four years ago never mind 10 years ago and if anything's referring to some of the new plans and initiatives guidelines that have happened in the last 10 years I would like to see them actually hyperlinked in the document because a lot of people are only going to be looking at this online and not looking at a paper document and that way it's almost becomes a repository information where you can go to find more so back to the environmental thing it was my understanding Chris at the environmental committee I forget their acronym that they're actively working on a report right now and our hope they had planned before COVID to be done by May or June so maybe that's taken a little bit longer like all of our initiatives but that when that came out again it wasn't work that we were going to determine about we're just going to reference that document create a link and if people want to see some of our green initiatives they would go to that so you know it's it's a document it's a resource but anyways we're all going to think about that and I also agree now I'm thinking Chris we shouldn't send out Michaels until I mean everybody and I'm you know this is our thing everybody planning board we the you know bylaws and all that public way it all goes to town council but this is our thing so we need to do our homework and we really got to try to stick to these deadlines because it will just drag on months and months and we're going to fall way behind so that was an odd I reckon I'm going to call on Doug and then there's Janet and I well Chris your hand is up right now do you have something that you want to say right now or I wanted to say that in terms of the environmental and sustainability things I think I am expected I am expecting Stephanie to write some text with regard to that of course she will refer to the the plan that she's working on with ECAC I guess they call themselves ECF group yep I see yes so she's going to be working with them and we can refer to their plan but she will also be providing me with yes the text to put into many of these these sections here but I just haven't received it yet I recognize that but I also knew that there was a report that she's worked like that they're coming out with so that we know in the time we would be able to refer to that because we won't be done till after they're done so yeah that's probably actually not going to be done till next till December I think they were initially supposed to have it done by June then they got an extension where their grant and December's okay because we won't be done by December either so that's all right but we knew that they will probably be done before we're done so yeah keep that in mind thanks Chris so I'm I acknowledge Doug and then there's Janet and then I see Jack okay so I read through it and my first thought was gee this is really uncontroversial you know you've basically recapped what has happened I guess if I step back from it I could say this looks like a report back to town council you know kind of an interim where the state of the town in terms of the master plan we approved 10 years ago or whatever so you know it doesn't it seemed like it would if this approach would be pretty easy to accomplish you know it's it's fair on the fair amount of work to pull together the facts but it would be easy to accomplish and easy for town council to endorse you know I agree actually with Michael and with Maria that it might be more useful to have you know maybe without changing the the 2010 text you know the the 2020 text could be here's what we've done and based on our experience we're going to want to put more emphasis in this direction rather than that direction just as this is the way the world looks to us now rather than we're going to take things out I think that's a mistake you know because it does it goes a little farther and starts to open the door toward you know gee we should reconsider the whole thing yeah yeah and Chris if you're trying to keep to a deadline you know like we did for the comments on the minutes it would be if you want our comments on what you've written it'd be nice to have a date by which we need to provide them thank you okay good may I follow that up with an email give you a date in an email maybe we should do that because we did set a date a couple meetings back that we were supposed to give her comments by last week but maybe Chris that's we probably need to see it twice because sometimes people miss something in these meetings so um yes a reminder from you would be good okay um so I um thanks Doug I wreck are you done Doug is that okay um and Janet and then I see Jack um I appreciate everybody's comments um I I sort of I've been struggling um I thought it really useful to see Christine Brestrup's commentary in text um because you read the text and you read what she says and you reflect on it and um I I do agree with the comment that it probably doesn't belong in the master plan you know at the end of the day but it is kind of a useful history and it gets you thinking and looking at I also think we need to look ahead I was putting the hat on of thinking um a little bit to the future when we have the master plan on the web page and we've gone to the public saying here's the land use section here's what the master plan says and here's what's been done here's what's not been done and so I kind of like my thoughts went to the implementation matrix that I think is part of chapter 10 and I thought maybe Christine's commentary or history or updates on what was done should be a column in that matrix that list of steps and strategies and then you could say you know something like completed partially completed not done with no shame um and then maybe a column of next steps were hopeful dates for completion and then the missing piece in on that matrix now is who's responsible for getting it done because if nobody is assigned the job or thinks they're assigned the job no one's really going to do it so I wondered if looking at the implementation matrix and using that as a document that could guide the public in ourselves as we kind of sort through things would be useful um so that's one big question like how are we going to you know how are we going to talk about it in a constructive way um and maybe the implementation matrix would be a good structure for that the other problem I question I had was I think in previous planning boards have incorporated the Amherst housing market study and housing production plan as part of the master plan and you know so those are really long documents and they do have strategies that would directly affect land use and I wondered how do we put that into the plan if we just reference them and then there's like 100 pages of this and 60 pages of that is it a way that and is it become unworkable or will anyone be able to understand it all um unless they're like people who like to read something complicated like the text code and things like that so I was struggling with um I was even personally struggling I'm thinking if I'm going to send comments to Chris like how do I put them into you know kind of things so I just had a lot of questions about structure and what's the best way to present to the public or for us to talk amongst ourselves and so I'm glad we're having this discussion thanks Janet yeah Chris I do think I know we're not working on that tonight but I think Janet's points on the implementation matrix that really is a key part that could quickly show what's done what's half done and a couple more columns might be needed and I just wanted to remind everybody that when this got passed it's the 2010 and there was supposed to be this master plan implementation committee that was kind of doing this every year and and reporting back and creating a report that said what had been done or investigated to be pursued or not pursued and those reports would have been referenced in this update except we don't have any of them so in a way Chris is doing double duty she's updating the master plan but she's also filling in this gap that didn't happen which hopefully now will happen after we update this and the next 10 years there will be a master plan implementation committee with their reports and that will help drive the committee that does the big redo in 2030 so I just wanted to put that historical context out there I see Jack and then next is Michael so uh yeah I I really like the detail of the comments and and kind of struggle with how the update should be without rewriting it and I I love I love using footnotes and these would kind of be like section notes how Chris has them in and a lot of them will probably be or just you know thought provoking that may be deleted but some of them I like the historical explanation you know in the last 10 years so I'd like to keep you know the like the historical sort of thing just for the sake of expediting you know completion of the update you know I think the use of of these notes is is is good um and you know a lot lots of you have been you know saying the same but I guess some sections will need to have like you know more strike out more heavily editing versus just a note um and I'd be very interested to see you know Mike's comments at this time to help me uh in terms of reviewing this because it this is a lot of work you could you could spend you know weeks on each section as a plenty more member which I don't have um so I would recommend that we send Mike's comments for the benefit of the whole board um and then some of the things I just saw like like brownfields that aren't applicable I mean it gives the master plan a little bit of a boilerplate feel if that's really the case you know we should just get rid of this some of that stuff so some of this you know so that's a different kind of edit or update but um basically those are my comments thanks jack so may I ask yes a question here um and this is going to be for Pam if and ideally and and Christine gray mullen and I will talk about this later when we get to the end of this discussion ideally we're going to have a master plan web page where people can um the members of the public can see what the latest thing is and then comment on it but in the interim would it be possible to have a section on the planning board web page about the master plan and maybe um post this thing that I've written as a very rough draft post Michael's comments next to it so that um other members of the planning board could see it and the public could see it and we're not breaking any open meeting law I guess that's what I was worried about um I was worried about breaking the open meeting law by sending out Michael's comments they weren't part of the packet and they were you know his thoughts about something which we're not supposed to send in between meetings except if we post them then it's okay to send them so anyway I wondered if Pam could advise me on whether it would be possible to make a little corner of the planning board web page well can I just interrupt Chris why don't you just put it on the master plan page is that it's kind of obscure though isn't it I maybe not we can think about but you can make a link then to the planning board page okay but the we can talk about this more later I mean if we're ready to go on this then Brianna and I mean I've been just waiting till she had air but it can probably be done next week the way I see it with the website it's pretty much that the sky's the limit because you just can create pages and link them I have to be honest with you I haven't been paying any kind of attention as to what's been going on with the master plan web page because it wasn't on my plate and my my plate has other things that I'm thinking about however we can absolutely get something up there ASAP if need be so maybe we could just start putting this stuff up there and it's going to be chaotic and when we hear from the public like what does this mean what are what are you doing what are you talking about we're going to have to be ready to defend ourselves and say we're putting it out there we want everybody to see it and it's a work in progress and eventually it'll get done you know it's not it's not in any way finished it's rough right and we'll have to be willing to take the slings and arrows about that right well you can just put a disclaimer on there just just saying that it's you know it isn't finished and you expect to be having public meetings and and that way when I get some other comments from somebody I can put them up there and then everybody can see them and then the next time we meet we can talk about all of these things um sort of yeah Chris we'll talk after because that's not the process we've laid out for the website that can go up in a week so you know I don't want to start another system and then have to change and and it's about collecting people's comments if we start doing it this way it's the same way we've been sort of half hodging it for 10 years I think we want to be orderly and collect the comments and and everybody be seeing the same thing that everybody else is seeing so the process of tonight was not to start the whole public process that's why we're not taking public comment the main thing we were to do was to get Chris comments on what we thought of what is going on now with her first light draft so I think Chris is listening to all of us and looking at all and actually I mean looking at each other's comments probably isn't super important right now it's about what each of us is thinking and she's listening to all of us but it you know she's the one working on it so I'm sure you've got a lot of thoughts in your head right now Chris about oh you know maybe I'm going to alter this and add this and do this so I'm already getting eager to see like when can we get another first a second draft of this where you're like okay I heard you all this is now what how I'm thinking to do this master plan update light yep so I think we can talk about that when we get to um the point of talking about our schedule for the next yeah couple of months and maybe that's going to be later in the meeting because I'm very interested to know when do you you think you could get another draft done with this I mean we had set a very aggressive schedule six months ago on how to do this um and I know times are strange but you know we need you to communicate with us on what is achievable and what's not realistic so here's what I can say about the next month um June here we are at the end of May so June uh third we have a meeting where we have two public hearings um one about all about learning which is a preschool and the other one is about the common school they're relatively lightweight but still we have to have the process then um we were going to receive comments on chapter 40 are from planning board members on that day or hopefully before that day I think we had set May 27th as the day we were going to receive 27th comments and present them at the meeting on June 3rd and have some kind of probably not terribly in-depth discussion but somewhat of a discussion then we're also going to have um Mandy Jo, Hanneke and possibly some of her um members or co-members of CRC come to us that night and talk to us about the zoning um how we're going to um update the zoning bylaw revise the zoning bylaw whatever you want to call it so that's a packed night it is then we have um um so eventually we're gonna get I think the 17th looks okay the 17th looks okay yeah we have a joint hearing we have to do first off the bat probably with CRC but then as far as I know we don't have anything else that night I think that is that is the case as of right now um so we could do the 17th is and that's enough time for you to redo this and bring it back to us I don't know I mean because we've got a lot of other things going on but I could try well I mean you don't have to answer right now but think about and so the next option is July 1st so I think you just have to look at your workload and contemplate what you're hearing tonight and you know realistically when can you come back with another draft so I'll have to think about that July 1st we're planning to have the Amherst media project right I think I had talked at some point about having it on June 17th but right now I don't think that's reasonable so um so July 1st would be Amherst media and we can be sure that that's going to be um uh which shall I say a popular night for the planning board planning board is going to be very popular that night meaning we'll have a lot of public interest okay all right um so I'll think about that so maybe maybe by the 17th uh but given what we're going to talk about later I'm you know I'm I'm still a little a little uh tentative about that so a whole month away so maybe okay well if you can just you know think about it and then as we're making the agendas as the weeks go on you know let us know we're not trying to be unreasonable here but we are saying you know we we have an aggressive schedule so what would that mean as far as getting comments from planning board members um um that would mean me getting comments in the next two weeks by by June 3rd oh no you should only get comments in the next week chris you you gave us a deadline of last week so we're already past the deadline you would ask so let's give it another week and by next wednesday people will give you their comments on the on this current chapter because then you need you're not going to really start moving on the next draft until you've heard from us and that's right and thought about that so if that's already next week um you know if you're looking at the 17th or july 1st you need time to actually then come up with a new draft so next week is the 27th so we already said that we were getting comments on um 40 r yes seven so both comments on the master plan okay and 40 r so we have our homework yes i know everybody they're going to be busy this weekend good reads um and and i mean with the master plan i mean neither one of them are like detailed comments you're you're looking for you know thoughts and my overall experience i'm not looking for you to um edit edit each sentence here and um but just tell me what do you think about this approach should we go more towards what we need to do in the future do you still want me to include some of these historical facts um general approach comments yeah okay so michael's been very patient i see his hand up there and he's going to say whatever he wants to say but i also am throwing it out there um to people like do you want chris to go through the rest of this document or should can we just move on from here so i recognize michael and at this time that's the only hand i see thank you can you hear me yes we can yes the reason i ask is because i was i crashed and i was offline for about 15 minutes so and i i left about or i was i was dismissed about the time chris was talking about the beginning of the land use chapter and uh referenced what i had what i had sent her a couple of times and i'm not quite sure whether maybe this is all irrelevant because she's already said that said that or not but bear with me um the reason the way i went through the the document um was as you're suggesting to make it seem uh more forward looking and less historical uh than i thought that it was and uh i had basically three kind of strategies when i did that one was to change some specific wording things like uh l u 2 a says change zoning and and then uh i changed i have suggested that be continue to pursue zoning changes which allow suggesting that we have already made some progress in that area but not completely and that the uh lines and the additions in red which christine had put in i edited that a little bit to suggest how that might be uh might might work so i had a fair amount of those continue to do something or pursue or rather than start over continue the revision of instead of undertake zoning efforts continue zoning efforts that that kind of thing um that was one one approach i took to making the specific edits within the within the document the two things that um i really felt were um central to what i had in mind and the reasons why i would really like everybody on the planning board to get this document and respond to it as part of what their own um responses to the document might be is because it really does take a slightly different maybe even a significantly different approach um i think that that uh the document really needs to think about what we should it needs to read as if it were written today and it's it's what we are want to do over the next 10 years that's what the town council seems to want a document which represents the current thinking of the town and as far as the planning board is concerned we are sort of that part of the whole process so i think we really rather than try to say well we've done this so far and we now need to do more with this we just need to say we need to we need to do this we need to continue to do this or we need to start doing this one of the two depends on what the what the issue is of the other part of this process and this is where all the all the historical annotations really come in is the this implementation matrix which is buried as an appendix and i believe really needs to be chapter 11 and that the implementation matrix i don't know if we've all seen it or not maybe you haven't maybe you haven't but it really it it boils down each particular objective states it and then has a column for who should do that and then another column for when it should be done by and i think that implementation matrix is the place for all of this historical documentation i think that's where we should put responsible the identify who ought to be doing these things and then indicate in the other column how much of it's already been done and when the rest of it should be done and how we might imagine this happening over the next 10 years so that's what i that's the way i approach editing the document and i would i would hope that this doesn't violate meeting laws because if we have to everybody has to look at this document at the moment we're talking about it in a meeting uh then i don't think everything we're never going to get anywhere either that or the document's going to be ignored and i hope it isn't ignored i didn't spend an enormous amount of time on it i spent maybe six or eight hours on it but uh you know it's it it is complicated and it needs thought and it needs a way of thinking about it that um that focuses your ideas on a on a plan uh so that's that's what i think and i'm sorry to be taking up so much time now that was really helpful michael thank you um i see uh chris so um i was wondering and this is a question for pam again can we somehow incorporate michael's comments into our packet from last week like could we have packet appendix one and just put it on the web page with the packet that you put there last friday it came in you know too late to incorporate into our packet but if it had come in friday morning instead of friday evening we might have put it into the packet and then put it up on the web page which means that it wouldn't have violated open meeting so that's a question for pam could we do something like that i believe so um and i'm actually going to be in the office tomorrow so i think um it would be its own separate little package and i would need to title it something like additional documents yeah so i'm very excited to hear that because this has been an issue that i felt has always been there the packet goes out which by the way i didn't get till four o'clock today um the packet goes out but then there's lots of things you send us through emails after that moment all the way up until the meeting and those never get included in anything that gets posted online and they don't get included with the minutes so i've always felt there was a drop of transparency there so if we have the ability to do a follow-up packet and then just post it that would be fantastic it covers a lot of this so not only this that the comments from michael but any of the other documents that had to do with the public hearings or whatever just pdf it just like you do and put it up there can that happen we're getting off topic here but i got so excited i was like oh my god can we do this we can do almost anything we can talk offline if you guys just say yeah we can do that then great we can make this happen fantastic oh we're moving into the digital world um great thank you um i'm gonna recognize Doug yeah chris you had asked whether we thought that we needed chris to go all the way through all seven pages of this with all of her annotations and my answer would be no i really don't need that nor do i really want that i thank you and i think a bunch of us feel that way um i'm gonna recognize david in a second but chris just if you could talk about there was one thing i wasn't sure about this you you put your thoughts and i knew this was just a first draft but i'm sort of looking at what's up on the screen i can only see half of it but like lu1h we have the old writing and then i'm thinking about what michael was saying like how you want to like maybe update that so it's like continue to or we have but then you had your stuff in red and i wasn't sure if you're just redlining and then later you would just accept it and it would become like a second paragraph in black below the existing paragraph or you know i really hadn't thought much about formatting i was just like putting thoughts down on the paper so um but the other thing was i was reluctant to mess too much with the existing text i thought that whatever we were adding should be added in a way that people would know what was added so can we redline like can you do the the track changes track changes but that disappears right um only if you turn it off but what i'm saying is it um once we publish this how will people know what's the old master plan and what's the new maybe we don't care you can keep saving it as individual we'll talk about that too that could because then we'll actually see what's going to be the end product like right now it's like you're add-on thoughts to the end but we can talk more about that in process i know we just talked about that a little bit months and months ago which seems like forever ago all right thanks chris um all right so i see david and then michael hi i agree with dug i i think that we can i would enjoy moving on i think we're getting very much in the weeds as i understand it the planning board has a hard deadline of next wednesday to return comments to chris breast drop on both the mass this chapter of the master plan update and the 40 r comments i think that you know big picture and not weeds this is not a master plan review that's going to happen in 2030 um and so i would again um urge us to i i i think that this is a great um presentation and i look forward to digging deeper thank you chris um but but i'd like to move on because we have i think more pressing new business to do so and then before i i i give up the mic when we do move on i would like to request a five minute um break thank you okay great um and all hands went away so why don't we just take a five minute break here i have eight fifty two so it will resume at eight fifty seven and we're going to move on to at that point item five old business we good so you can put your video down and your mic off if you want and i'll see we'll be here in five minutes i'll stay live so that the um public knows that and maybe pam if you don't mind staying up so they know that we're we're here oh okay i'll stay up i was just gonna turn myself off i will be turned off just in case someone came in on the zoom i don't even know who we have there right now they'll see my quilt yeah your quilt is beautiful it was made by a woman from amherst oh nice is chris best grip making taking a break at the moment or she i believe she is chris are you there yeah she probably ran away and pan is gone yeah everyone but you and i okay and just to tell the public if anyone's watching on the inverse media we're just uh taking a five minute break um and we'll resume at eight fifty seven i'm back welcome back thank you so it's eight fifty five and if anyone is watching or just tuning in we're in a five minute break and we'll resume at eight fifty seven oh pan yes i had a quiz michael burt whistle i had a question about the packet that we received that we were sent out which i i also just got this afternoon about four o'clock there's a there's a set a series of four or five pages uh were stapled together called master plan update and it shows a series of maps m gis land use information i'm not quite sure how what that is in reference to what that relates to in terms of of art is of the master plan discussion can you you know what pan let's wait till the meeting resumes so others are here because it's part of the meeting and chris can that was going to be part of her talk michael but i'm sorry we cut her off that's probably offline i'm sorry but we can we'll ask pan we'll ask chris to just address that maybe during her um um report of staff we'll just ask her what that was okay thank you michael for pointing that out michael i kept seeing you go into the attendees and i kept putting you back into the panellists i don't know i don't know what was happening but from what i could see i was operating on battery and it failed and i had to plug in and then i had to reconnect and for some reason i reconnected in a different way i don't know why it wasn't a need forever to try to figure that out but i think everything is the way it's supposed to be now you conquered it michael you did good good job michael it's not easy and i had and i had to put up a different background too i said turn the whole thing around and i can see the other half of my room i have a question that i meant to ask in the beginning which is when it when you said christine like contact pam or shon i thought i don't have their like would i contact them by text or how would i contact them i just um we talked about that in the very beginning pam did they ever get phone numbers i think some i mean i did i i believe everybody has been sent sent phone numbers but i can do that again can you do that again with your cell and shon's and um worst case is i think put mine on there too i think most people have my phone number you know i do watch the phone too because janet you've done that you've texted me yes yeah thank you yeah you start reaching out to anybody oh my god so yeah pam if you could do that that would be great so it's actually 857 um i don't know if everybody's back if you can just click your raise hand members if you're here so i'll know that you're actually here and i see michael i see janet i see dug i see maria does anyone i'm pretty old do you remember that that in the magic mirror this it was like early kid tv when we were i was like four and it was something about she looked in this magic mirror it was on pbs i see jenny robber um yeah it was that what it was i don't remember what it was called i see and that's what i feel like i'm like on tv going i see all right so we can start back again um so chris we do have a question for you later that we'll ask you in your uh report of staff and we'll come back to that and um so now we're gonna go to item five old business and there's nothing there chris do we have nothing business okay we like that we'll go to item six new business we do have something or i thought we did we do yeah um yeah we do it's not on here but you're going to talk about something okay well there was a revised agenda yeah i've got the one from the packet that's the problem yeah let me go back to the other one so may i speak yes yes you have the floor go ahead chris so the revised agenda includes um a new idea that came about in the last two weeks and um it was really rob mora who came up with this and it was an effort to um we realized that the businesses in town were having such a hard time with um COVID-19 and having to close down and um you know we were really trying hard to think of something that could help them so uh rob came up with this um kind of three pronged way of helping the businesses and um and paul bachelman thought it was a good idea and he presented it to town council on monday night and it was presented to the crc on tuesday and now we're presenting it to members of the planning board you did receive the um the memo from paul in your email so you have a little bit of advanced warning um or i shouldn't say warning advanced notice as we think it's a good idea um so the idea is that we would um we would try to figure out how to um how to amend the zoning bylaw to allow um certain uses to have a little bit easier time to start up or restart and um right now as you know um well there are a lot of restaurants that are operating or have operated in downtown amherst many of them are closed now some of them probably won't come back uh online um there will be empty storefronts and um some of the businesses will come back and we're hoping that that is the case for more than more than you know most um but in any event what we're trying to do is think of a way that we can adapt our zoning to make it easier for them um right now with the current zoning uh it takes a long time to get a business established especially if the business is a restaurant that um serves alcohol and um has to go to the designer or the not the designer keyboard but the zoning board of appeals if they're open laid or um whatever their situation is so um even if they're going to the planning board uh it can take um you know two and a half months and the zoning board of appeals sometimes takes three months to get a permit and if someone started now they wouldn't actually have their permit until probably sometime in september so we're trying to think of ways that we could get kind of jump start this process and rob came up with the idea that um perhaps for the next six months well i actually didn't go well i'm trying to figure out how to what's the best way to describe this but okay so the first aspect of this is 180 days chris yeah the first aspect is zoning second aspect is use of the public ways and the third aspect is um amending the liquor license laws so um the first thing is zoning and what we would try to do is for 180 days or six months probably starting sometime in july we would um adopt temporary zoning and the temporary zoning would be related to specific uses and i think if you go to page um it's not this page but the next page of the handout uh pamm or maybe not even that page this page where it starts draft this is the draft zoning bylaw that we're bringing to you um so the purpose of it is to encourage and facilitate the reopening of existing businesses and the opening of new businesses and to stimulate economic activity in the aftermath of COVID-19 um so it would affect uses new and existing uses in the general business district the limited business district um business village center business neighborhood and the commercial zoning district and it would also um deal with pre-existing non-conforming uses um the uses that we're talking about aren't mixed use buildings and apartment buildings and hotels or anything like that we're very limited in the uses that we're talking about it's really retail establishments um you know clothing stores bookstores um that kind of thing personal care establishments um no hair salons um i suppose tattoo parlors would be included but in any event um personal care establishments and food and drink establishments and that's the main uh section here that we wanted to help help out the restaurants the class one and class two restaurants so those are the uses that we're zeroing in on and then any accessory uses that are associated with them um and accessory uses could be outdoor dining live entertainment and what we're calling drive-through facilities but we're really not expecting someone to set up a drive-through window like they'd have at mcdonald's or something like that we're really trying to capture the curb side um uh delivery where you know someone comes out and and hands you your your tray or your bag of things that you've already ordered in rob's mind the building commissioner's mind those are really drive-through facilities um and we have them now but they haven't been permitted in some way so um this would also include um waivers and modifications from things like parking requirements and um signed by law they could include waivers and modifications um design review would be suspended for certain things that would be suspended for signage lighting placement of outdoor furnishings and other non-permanent building or site alterations so we're not talking about um you know putting a new addition on your building or just talking about making it possible for people to have outdoor dining of some sort the application process would really be similar to what we expect for site plan review and special permits there would be an application form people would have to submit plans um they would have to give us management plan information and the building commissioner in consultation with me as a planning director would review the applications and be able to issue administrative approvals instead of requiring site plan review and special permits and we would review these applications using the criteria in 10.38 and 11.24 and I think we're both pretty familiar with how the planning board and the zoning board of appeals use those criteria for these types of uses we would also solicit comments from other public officials and staff including the fire chief the police chief the public health director superintendent of public works or the town manager and we the building commissioner would issue a decision to either approve approve with conditions or deny the request within 10 business days and that's really a vast change over the current situation right now when we get an application in it takes three weeks to a month to to have a public hearing it could even take longer than that then once we have the public hearing we have to write the decision and then get the decision signed and filed with the town clerk and if it's a special permit it has to go through a 20-day appeal period so this is an attempt to for a limited period for the period of 180 days be able to allow things to occur that would normally take much longer and then if someone objected to a decision that was made by the building commissioner that person or entity could appeal the decision to the zoning board of appeals just the way they currently can do they can appeal any decision to the to the zoning board so we think this is a good idea and what it requires is it requires a zoning amendment and it would be we have a space in our zoning bylaw in article 14 which had been used for phased growth but we did away with phased growth a number of years ago so now that section is reserved so we could just put this new zoning section into that portion of the zoning bylaw we have had the town council look at this draft that we've come up with and he made several suggestions about how to improve it we're going to send it back to him this week for his his secondary review and the proposal is to hold a joint public hearing about this proposed zoning amendment on June 10th and the joint public hearing would be with the CRC as I said previously the CRC has already seen this and they appear to be in favor of it so why don't I stop there and you can ask questions and make comments and then we can have a conversation I don't see any hands up yet but Chris can we carried a little bit further on you know I sent out that email to everybody asking about June 10th so so I am going to carry it a little further in the sense that I forgot to talk about use of the public way and I also forgot to talk about the liquor licensing so in many cases here people who have these establishments would be able to use portions of their own private property to either have outdoor dining or potentially outdoor displays of books or clothing that they wanted to offer and part of this is in response to the fact that we know that restaurants and retail stores that come back into business aren't going to be able to have a full complement of customers in their establishments they're going to be limited to you know 25% initially and maybe 50% later on but they're not going to be able to have 100% of their normal customer load for quite a while so the idea is that they could use portions of their own private property in the vicinity of their business or they could spill out into the public way and that might mean you know taking a parallel parking space along the edge of the road and turning it into something similar to a parklet I think you've probably read about parklets and in fact we had a couple in downtown Amherst in the last few years so the idea is just to sort of cordon off a parking space and let people sit there and be served by the workers in the restaurant people might also be able to use parts of the sidewalk where the sidewalk is wide enough and there might be little alleyways here and there that could be used or parking lots behind buildings so there's a wide variety of places where this could occur and it could occur as I said either in private property or on public property if it occurred on public property the second part of this request not part of the zoning but part of the request to town council is to authorize the town manager to allow these businesses to use the public way to to accomplish some of these uses and then the third part of it is to try to work with the board of licensed commissioners and the state to expedite the expansion of premises so when someone gets a liquor license they have a particular limited place where they can serve alcohol but if you're talking about allowing people to serve on the sidewalk or you know a little parklet that's created in the parking space that would require expansion of premises so the state is is talking about this about allowing an expedited process with the ABCC and the town has also started to talk about it with the board of licensed commissioners so those are the three aspects the zoning the use of the public way and the the liquor license so I think Christine was starting to talk about schedule so why doesn't she pick up there and talk about schedule about when we're going to be doing this I don't know a whole lot but what I do know is this will be a bylaw change that has to go all the way to town council and they have to approve it so ironically maybe there'll be more questions at our next meeting when Mandy Joe Henneke and CRC is coming with that flowchart to discuss because this is going to be our first living example of sort of living through that and what it requires is a joint hearing with planning board and CRC to both approve the proposed amendment which we will have and from there then it goes to town council where they would give it final approval so it will be during a planning board meeting and they come and join us and that's why I had asked for your availability on June 10th at 6 30 and why it got pushed you know some people are like why aren't we doing this right now is Chris can further explain she's got a file notices and the final wording and everything it's sort of like a rush to town meeting getting this article ready and set and have it go through the proper processes and notifications so that we can have that joint hearing that's what I know Chris do you have anything to add about that this would be the only thing on the on the docket for June 10th because you already have meetings scheduled for June 3rd and June 17th so this would be a specific night that was just set up to consider this zoning amendment with the CRC both bodies are required to hold public hearings to change zoning so and the town council has determined that they would really like to have these public hearings held jointly to the extent that that's possible and it seems like in this case it will be possible on June 10th so and the notifications will be done by then so we can have it yeah the notifications will be sent out on this Friday with the expectation that there'll be an ad in the paper next Wednesday and the following Wednesday so on the May 27th and June 3rd there will be notifications in the paper we also have to send notifications to all of the abutting towns and to the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission and one other entity I think it's DHCD that's right so those are two state quasi-state organizations that we have to send notifications to so that's that's it in a nutshell do you have any questions I see three hands I'm going to recognize Doug then Michael then David okay Doug yeah I I confess I didn't scrutinize the draft closely but I wanted to just ask is this envisioned as a permanent change or if it's a temporary well you have a temporary process for approval after what during 180 days does that mean the approvals sunset after 180 days or how do you put the genie back in the bottle once you've approved all this and everybody has a business plan based on using sidewalks in public ways thank you may I respond question Chris if I can just tag on and add to his and what would happen if it was needed to be extended so it is envisioned to be temporary to the extent that that makes sense and probably many of the outdoor operations would cease to exist or would be given a condition that they needed to expire you know Thanksgiving or the beginning of December or something like that I had a conversation with the building commissioner about this though and you know for somebody who's starting a restaurant you know say it's a new business and they're taking over an existing restaurant that doesn't you know that isn't operating anymore they're taking over an existing space well they're going to have to invest a fair amount of money in getting that space up and running you know maybe they don't like the furniture inside or maybe they want to change the grill or something something where they're going to have to spend money so we don't want to make these things go away after six months if they're a viable business so as I said the building commissioner and I will be reviewing these things based on the criteria that the zoning board of appeals normally uses and that the planning board normally uses and we have a pretty good sense of the kinds of conditions that you usually impose and that the zoning board of appeals imposes the building commissioner is actually very conservative in my opinion and very strict and so he will be very judicious in allowing things to be approved but I think that the answer to the question of whether it's temporary or not it's somewhat on a case by case basis does it make sense if someone's using you know for an accessory use a parking space out in front of Antonio's well once the winter comes it isn't going to make any sense anymore for them to continue to operate a part of their restaurant out in that parking space but if someone has redone the inside of their building in order to have a new restaurant that does make sense for them to continue if the person who's redoing the inside of their building also has patio next to the building that he can use for seasonal outdoor dining well you know probably that would be approved as part of his business operation because it would be on private property and it wouldn't need any further approval from the town manager so it really would be kind of case by case and so I think that's that's what I have to say thank you Chris and I also just noticed in here on the draft it says that this is only for 180 days unless extended by action of the town council so it sounds like the town council would then have the power to extend this I don't know if they can tweak it but that's another question that I would love to know so I see Michael and then David and then I see Janet Michael thank you three things first of all I think this is a very good idea and I think we should move as quickly as we possibly can on it and I think we are doing that and I applaud that secondly I have total confidence in this breast strip and Mr. Mora to make the decisions in lieu of the long deliberations and torturous processes that this board frequently goes through they do indeed understand what the zoning bylaw says and will not make decisions just for the hell of it they'll make decisions based on the zoning bylaw and that's fine I'm perfectly confident that they'll be able to do that very well thirdly while I think this is a great thing that have happened very quickly I would hate to have see this being used as the precedent for the way in which this the planning board and the CRC operates on a permanent basis let us please not say that because this worked this emergency process worked it is the right process because it is not thank you David I agree with the comments just expressed by Michael I'm assuming that substantive comments about the proposed draft zoning bylaw are not relevant right now but but really just moving forward to that June 10 joint hearing and that the time in between is when when we might be able to make some suggestions or some express that so that but but but but giving the green light for endorsing flexibility to support the re the the the the the the the the the the recruitment the revitalization of the town is is what's imperative um and then finally I just wonder given that the June 3 meeting sounds packed and given that the CRC folks are coming to the June 10 meeting I wonder whether that presentation might be pushed to be a part of the June 10 meeting rather than being at rather than being added on to the June 3 meeting that's a matter of scheduling and I just put that out as a suggestion as a possibility in in order to condense the June 3 meeting and to make more robust the June 10 meeting thank you so may I say something sure I would appreciate hearing any substantive comments now because I think the time that we have to deal with this is very short so if you do have substantive comments please let me know and I will you know try to work on finding out whether they're legal appropriate whatever but there is time between now and June 10th to make appropriate changes to this and I wouldn't want us to get to June 10th and then be saying oh my goodness if we'd only known that ahead of time we would have checked with town council and you know so if you have substantive changes that you want to let me know about please let me know may I follow up then follow up go ahead David first you know these are just thoughts these are not proposals they're half baked again I think the the goal is the goal is what I want was I want to achieve I have I would like to encourage the reduction of any of this is outside of the planning board so let me just speak that in any way possible to enlarge the public's pedestrian space to enhance the possibility of social distancing to encourage greater commercial use of the space while maintaining safe public health parameters distancing is if there's any way to reduce vehicular traffic in a circumscribed area as suggested by the bid in an earlier presentation I would encourage that a car free pedestrian only zone downtown sounds really attractive to me personally in terms of the the the matter more within the purview I think I have concerns about personal care establishments in enhanced outdoor space because I just don't know what that means again in public health in terms of public health I don't know about things flying that may be on to fly enough said on that okay I think that the the a third point the ability to since this is these will be decisions that are going going to be made quickly as appropriate I believe that building in an ability to review and update conditions on a regular or ongoing basis would be important not to incur unpredictability or to for the business owner but to be able to respond to all unintended consequences or unintended effects of these temporary measures that that that ability and then finally and I appreciate you're allowing my long-windedness um the issue about whether after 180 days a new use becomes in a you know a permanent basis I think that that's an important issue to consider and to wrestle with however I think it also could be something of a red herring in that during those that those 180 days that the new use the new restaurant or the new establishment that's put into an otherwise vacant space will have an opportunity during that that that initial period to prepare its more proper and formal um application for per per the the zoning bylaws as they exist prior to adoption potential adoption of this temporary measure I hope that that was clear enough and again I think that the the goal and the effort is what's really important that and that all businesses should be given all signals that this would be going forward in order to try to get us back on our feet thank you thank you um Janet and then after that is Maria so um I I would like to um support what people are saying about the need to support our businesses and help them help the businesses in town get back on their feet um I've already sent an email to chris with some of my comments so I'm actually going to go through them quickly but one of things I didn't send to chris is I understand like the need for speed for waiving parking requirements and um for outdoor dining seating arrangements and on the public way I could see that as a priority that has to happen very quickly um you know to get to so people can capture summer summer business when they're able to um serve again um on the other hand I know summer is a slow time for Amherst businesses and there's probably not going to be a lot of camps and it's probably going to be slower than normal so I think that perhaps we'll buy some more time for a slower process for approving new businesses so I wonder if we can sort of tease out those two issues because um it seems like a new business can go through the usual process and I think the PB the planning board and the zba can prioritize these new businesses and expedite their own processes for approval and things like that so I do have this concern about approving new businesses or new uses and having regrets later um going to my hit list of changes I'd like to see in um the proposed by-law is yes to put a time limit on all the permits and required them to be renewed um that would give us a chance in six months to to go through the usual process see what's working you know maybe having outdoor dining was really hellish for the toy box or some other business and we can kind of revisit that and how it worked um maybe the new business there's something really odd about the way they're operating or you know it's in congress maybe it's a sex toy shop or something it's it's not all hopefully just restaurants downtown i'm not advocating for um that kind of business but I think that I think that requiring a renewal knowing that if they're complying it will just go through would give us time to sort of address problems in a slower way um I would eliminate the 10-day time limit for the inspector to act I think it's too fast I think that I trust the building inspector and Christine our planning director to go as quickly as possible but 10 days is pretty quick and things can come up like maybe the fire chief doesn't get back in time maybe someone takes a vacation and gets sick and also you're required to approve a plan and a change that maybe you don't have support so I would say maybe a 15-day time limit knowing that your goal is to go faster you might get 10 applications for um outdoor dining and can't really sort them out in that time um maybe give the the applicants a choice of going through the regular procedures um because it might go be faster going through the planning board um and then not to create a whole new set of application procedures and requirements I would I don't think our procedures for applications are they're actually seem very clear to me and um I sort of had this Guantanamo Bay issue where they didn't want to use you know when they were doing the um people they held there they didn't want to use the criminal federal criminal procedures and they didn't want to use the you know the the war crimes people or they didn't want to use the the procedures for war and they made it the third set of procedures and they've been arguing and litigating it ever since so I thought in a way it'd be faster just to use our current application procedures and you're all familiar with it and then I had a question about the notice to a butters and it sounds like there's no hearing and so how would butters or businesses and neighbors know that the application has been made that they can have some input and then even and they dislike the outcome to appeal like how that those notification requirements and participation requirements met in this informal procedure the other thing I just thought of as as Christine was talking is I don't really understand the status legally of an administrative approval versus a special permit and a permit for site plan review I don't know what if it said well this was an administrative approval under a temporary thing like what's its legal status is there is it different from a regular permit so those are sort of my hit list thank you but I do very much support the need to help these businesses and I know we're all trying ourselves but we're probably not enough people and bringing more people to town without door seating and kind of fun stuff sounds fantastic thank you Maria sorry I thought someone's going to answer Janet um I think that we should definitely do this expedited process not go through normal hoops for this period of the social distancing and I think that as we reduce the social distancing businesses will be able to figure out how to get their normal sort of plan with the space they have my questions are more administrative Chris for you to ask as you're writing the bylaw what are the I know it says the our required application and submission requirements are temporarily suspended but then what is it is it a hand drawn plan is it you can ignore providing lighting or traffic or parking like what is the I guess submission because if it's something that they are still going through the normal hoops of like hiring a civil or architect or interior designer or are you actually making the process like a very shortened yeah I guess I just I'm not clear on what the submission requirements are so maybe if you're drafting that up later I'll see it but it just sound like it was like everything was temporary suspended and I'm not sure what exactly you and Rob more would be reviewing but I don't need to know the details now but just to make sure that's clear and in the draft but uh yeah in the bylaw that you you come up with good thanks um Jack oh are you doing right do you want me to try to answer these um questions and concerns now to the extent that I can I can go back and and review the things that Jen had asked about and also review Maria asked about to the extent that I know what the answers are or not I think that's the point you're saying you only have an extent right now and all this hasn't been ironed out you're going to various people you're going to legal counsel like it's just like a normal article so I'm treating this like when we used to have pre-town meeting all the members are giving their questions and their concerns and you're scribbling madly so um we're hoping that when we see the next one come out and when this is presented because normally there'd be a little bit more time in the presenting but I'm sure CRC has a lot of the same questions that you all are asking too and town council will probably have the same questions if they're not answered so this is really good it's sort of like priming the pump for what Chris and Rob and Paul and everyone's going to have to deal with so um this is good this is really good to give her this this impact and this feedback so the only hand I see jack right now do you have more to add to this jack oh I'm uh totally you know behind expediting um provisions that you know allow businesses especially the restaurants to be able to capture some fraction of what they would normally be making uh during this pandemic um but I I guess the question I have is uh we've been talking about downtown take a south amherst example and I'm wondering how um you know businesses restaurants outside of the downtown would be able to take advantage of this say like a mission cantina that has you know limited space if they're going to keep the social distancing and and using their parking lot and then maybe not having enough parking sort of thing what how does this work for the you know businesses and locations that are outside of the downtown area you know in concept um does it does it does this work for them I guess is a question to to Chris um I Chris I mean if you want to answer but if just take it and then maybe he's got a good point that you know he's there needs to be some examples I think when this comes back to us there needs to be a few examples of how different weight like a few examples of how it would work so I think that gives everybody like a different view than just reading this you know legal memo kind of thing so maybe what I'll try to do is um put together a list of the questions and comments that you've come up with and talk to the building commissioner and um try to get back to you with something in writing before june 10th now I didn't watch the CRC meeting um but they did they do something similar to this and ask a lot of questions to go be followed up on or I don't think they asked a lot of questions but there's been a lot that's been happening in the last 36 hours and I don't remember everything um so I'll go back and review what they what they asked I don't know if Janet was there at the CRC meeting yeah I didn't go yesterday no okay well then if they didn't ask oh this is great that you all gave all this feedback and questions to Chris because this is priming and getting ready so that um this stuff doesn't come up the last minute when we're trying to improve things so thank you I see David and then Janet do you still have your hand up Janet or no yeah take it yes you do oh no it's gone um David you want to come back I just wanted to respond to jack's you know one of jack's questions which I think is you know it makes a lot of sense however it's not our job so for the mission cantina you know what their proposal is that's that's their proposal the the the this temporary this this this action by the town if it were to take it enables them to make the proposal they make the proposal and then and then and it's authorizing whoever it authorizes the current draft is is the building commissioner or the planning director to review it and condition it approve it or not but it's it's on the it's it's on the it's on the business to go hey for us to to try to make this work given given the situation this is our proposal you know that's that's not on our I don't think that's on the town's um shoulders um it's it's for it's for the town to go that okay let's see how that works go for it you know save jobs make money save jobs that's that's just I just wanted to respond to that one point there thank you great and just to remind like you know everyone's got good points going here but part of this is business is asking to do business in the public way so they may propose something that takes up the whole way but then I am assuming that it will be Chris and Rob and Paul Buckleman who tweak it and sort of negotiate it out and then a final agreement is made so I think there's going to be so much of a case by case basis with this it's it's going to be a lot but at least we're doing our part with this and we'll get this moving and it will come back to us um Chris I assume we will get like later drafts of this is it is it sort of cooks out before the 10th when we actually have to vote on it mm-hmm yep okay um I see one more hand Michael yeah it's important to remember based on uh Jack and and uh and David's comments uh this bylaw is not going to help every business in town there's some businesses that aren't going to be able to make use of outside work or public way or any of these other things uh some will but there may be some that won't and I think we can't worry well we can worry about feel bad for those businesses that are in such a constrained physical location that they can't take advantage of this bylaw but there will be some that can't I think and that we have to acknowledge that it's so true this isn't going to fix everyone I was talking to um one of the hair salonists at hair by Harlow and was like oh could you ever make use of the outdoors or extra space because I was thinking of this and as they said they need power for hair dryers which has that blowing stuff David that you were talking about but you know they're they need water and they're using chemicals so they this won't really help them but you know it might help somebody else so we might as well try something so um Chris thank you for fine-tuning this and continuing to work on this um and if anybody has more comments they think of something in the next day can they send you an email yeah all right um I see Janet has her hand up and then we'll move on Janet we cannot hear you your mic is off I can try to um my hand I kind of raised and it kept on lowering so I should just say that um I was at a bike store today and there were five people waiting to be served and there were three people I mean they made five sales with like two or three sales people just bringing things out and I began to wonder if a reduction in options actually would facilitate businesses but I do think it's it can be done and things can happen outside that usually happen inside and then obviously space is needed um I I feel like this is such an important by-law and I I think it's a huge waiver and I want to really get it right and so I was hoping that maybe we I don't know what we've been talking about this schedule and I've kind of lost track of it but maybe to get more information on the on the different drafts and the answers to questions and put that on to our next um planning board meeting to discuss in a deeper way or I just think this is so important it just seems more important than almost everything on our list so I don't want to change the schedule too many times but that's my plea that's about Chris so I I just wanted to say that um you know it's it's really up to you when you want to discuss 40R as far as I'm concerned 40R can be put on a sort of mid burner it doesn't need to be on the front burner I agree and that is something that you did have on the schedule for June 3rd so if you want to drop 40R to a different uh later date then you would potentially have more time to talk about um this topic on June 3rd I'm up for that Chris if if that's all right with others all we were going to be doing is just taking some more comments and looking we're we're not moving on anything with that so if that could get pushed a couple of weeks um that then we can open up the space to have the latest and greatest of this amendment come uh article come to us and some discussion for questions being answered and if you're preparing 40R consideration what could defer a little bit the responses to Chris about the 40R yep all right so we'll adjust that's uh agenda Chris later um and I see David I just want to again speak directly to the point bicycle stores are considered essential businesses today um understandably and in the past three days I've seen stories in you know the the the few publications that I still am stupid enough to read about how if you want to get a bicycle you're going to wait long in line and so it's creating a kind of panic to get your you know bicycle stuff and so it's great that the vice store's getting business and it's great that they're getting the business outside it's all those other ones that have been shuttered that and and all the other workers who we're trying who I think expediting this where we're trying to um enable and that's all it's great that the bikes stores are getting the business but there has been these stories the past couple of days and they're essential and that's all thank you um so at this time I don't see any more hands so I am going to move on and I'm going to move on to item um seven uh are there any A&R subdivisions uh Chris yes and we'll be able to show it to you um there is an A&R it's an interesting situation because it hasn't actually been filed with the town clerk yet but um yeah we we're having a little trouble getting things into our system it hasn't been filed with the town clerk and it hasn't been sent to jason skills town engineer so but the idea is it's a property that is colonial village and you're all familiar with colonial village so um if Pam can get that up on the screen I think it was one of the last things in our packet yep there's a map can you can you see that I'm scrolling through the packet no I see you Pam okay here we go again oh but that's nice too oh look at David view nice of you all right let's see I can hold it up it is in their packet it is so we all have it it's one of the last things in your packet and it's essentially colonial village owns a lot of property and um they have different parcels I think they have three or four different parcels and they're trying to consolidate it into one parcel but they're also doing a little bit of a land swap with Amir Amir mcchi who owns property to the north of colonial village there it is Pam okay I'm gonna say can you see it now excellent so we've put a yellow line around the outside of the proposed parcel it's a little daunting to try to figure it out but what I'm asking you to do is to authorize Christine Gray Mullen to sign this as an a and r because yeah I'm not going to be able to show it to you in person if you wanted to look at it in person you could come and meet me in the parking lot behind town hall and I would show you the plan and I'd be happy to do that but this is the best we can do for now so you can see all the buildings in colonial village the road that goes sort of slant wise is belcher town road and the road that's at the bottom is southeast street there are there is at least one parcel I think it's map 15 c lot 42 that is currently a separate parcel and that one would be combined into this bigger parcel you can see a little inset over to the left so you see map 15 c lot 42 right there and that is going to be added into the the colonial village parcel it's already owned by them but they're just going to put it all together and then and this is going to be a little hard to explain they're doing that land swap with with amir they're giving him a little wedge shaped piece up on the on the left hand side it says it's called lot two and it's kind of a skinny little piece so they're going to give that to amir it's in the inset can you see lot two over on the left hand side yes ham you can maybe see that and then amir is giving them lot three and lot three is um the kind of wedge shaped piece down below ham can you put your mouse on lot three there um i haven't even found it yet so you tell me if i'm hot or god how do i yeah oh little bit oh here's yeah and there you go all right i couldn't find it so i do not three i'm kind of and they're just doing a swap chris they're doing a swap you can see in the yellow there's a little a chunk out so lot two actually i said it backwards lot two is going to amir i think i said right and the wedge shaped piece is coming to colonial village there's so much yeah wedge shaped pieces right there with hamster arrow why why um i think that a colonial village has a desire to well they're going to do two things one is very small and the other one is pretty significant um the very small thing is that they're acquiring playground equipment from north village north village which has been um is going to be vacated and will be demolished and rebuilt so they're getting some playground equipment from north village and in addition that's the small thing they're going to do the big thing they're going to do is they're going to add buildings to this property here that's uh surrounded by yellow um and that really hasn't um they've just had a preliminary discussion with us about it um and they will be refining their proposal and then coming back and talking to us it would be a zoning board of appeals application and before it goes to the zoning board you would have an opportunity to review it but that's that's what's being thought about here so again we don't have any proposal on it yet i don't have anything my office about it but they're talking about doing that and they do it's actually something that um i would say the town uh in the form of town hall would support because it's an existing property that is a non-conforming use i'm not exactly sure what zoning district this is but i think it's a residential zoning district so it's a non-conforming use and they'd be expanding the non-conforming use to add apartment units to a property that's already developed and that's what our master plan says our master plan says that we want to focus development in uh places that are already developed so but that as i said that's not really what's coming to you tonight what's coming to you tonight is this proposal to um incorporate all of this land into one parcel and do that land swap with amir so it's also a lot four down below you see the lot four so i think they're going to be giving that little sliver of lot four right there it's just there yeah that will also go to amir okay um so questions on this uh janet i see your hand and dug i did see your hand but it's down now but janet i'm gonna lower my hand okay okay um okay so um at this point raise your hand if anyone has a problem with this and doesn't think i should sign this or they have another question i don't see any hands so um chris i i think we're good with this all right so you and i can make an appointment to meet in the parking lot and get your signature and yep sounds good uh david your hand just popped out my hand did just pop up um what what is there any time sensitivity to this chris is talking to you now is there time sensitivity well i'll tell you what we received this application i'm gonna say it was a while ago it was probably a week or two ago and technically we have in the old world before COVID-19 we would have had 21 days to review this um so the new world says that deadlines like that are what we call told meaning that they don't really exist during COVID-19 so if you wanted to wait till June 3rd to endorse this or think about it or whatever you could probably do that um i did tell tom reedy that i was going to bring this before you tonight but i don't think there's any big rush to do this probably two more weeks isn't going to kill anybody so tom reedy is representing whom tom reedy is representing alan kohn who owns the property alan owns this property and he owns presidential apartments and he may own other apartment complexes in amherst colonial village that is neil village that's right so this is for colonial village to unite all their properties into one property and do a couple of those tiny little land swaps um david what would you want chris to bring back to us two weeks from now as the sort of the game changer for this i don't know i'm just i'm just thinking about and perplexing on a map here well let me make it a little bit easier for you what an a and r is is approval not required uh it's a statement made by the planning board that this whatever is being proposed here does not require subdivision approval so subdivision approval usually involves um building a roadway and creating lots off the roadway and putting utility infrastructure in the roadway and so in my mind that is not what is being proposed here so i think the statement that subdivision control law does not apply in this case and subdivision approval is not required is a reasonable statement to make that's why i'm comfortable with signing it um michael let's ask back uh or sorry david what the what the issue was why he was somewhat reluctant the problem with it to be honest with you no uh no in fact no uh reluctant because i'm looking at this map with bad light in my my my third floor office here and and i'm trying to and and i think that that's it that's an excellent uh explanation um how about this how about if um david meets me and outside of the town hall and i show him the map and we talk about it from a distance no actually i'm i'm i'm comfortable with it i just didn't want to um uh with just with with an extra three minutes uh because i'm slow um or 10 minutes because i'm so slow just to be able to think about it and and rather than rubber stamp it but i i feel comfortable with it okay right i i do too um knowing in what context it's for so um if david's okay everyone's good chris we can make a time and i'll i'll sign this okay and i would do want to hear from the town engineer pam's got to put it into the system we'll hear from the town engineer so it probably won't get signed until sometime next week okay is that okay with everybody yeah thank you thank you um we'll move on to uh item eight upcoming zba applications pam uh i don't have time to do that i i'm not aware of anything new chris do we have new well i probably told you all about elsey federman wanting to convert her one family house to a two-family house a long time ago yeah i probably told you about valley cdc coming with 28 units and ponio village playground and 32 north prospect street building a deck so yeah i've heard about all those things already all right thank you uh item nine upcoming sppspr subs applications things i've already told you about all about learning and the common school paving okay um and uh item 10 is planning board committee and liaison reports i'm just going to ask for a show of hands at this time if there's any hands that want to go up and report something um yes uh michael okay go ahead oh there it is um for the my audience for the community for the design review board uh we uh last week reviewed the um kendrick park proposal which we've already acted on tonight and this and approved the removal of the change in two signs on the uh bank north um no teeny bank on and for the uh community preservation act committee uh there is no report thank you i don't see any other hands so at this time we'll move on report of chair um i don't have anything uh report of staff christ do you have anything i don't have anything right now then i'm just gonna cue you about a couple things one was um i'll do the easier one first we had talked the other day if you could ask um if pam could set up a doodle poll for the meetings to the summer for the planning board members to expect that um to so you know i know a lot of people probably not going away but some people do still go away so um and there is the possibility that if you have good wi-fi you could still zoom into the meeting so it's thinking about that can you attend the zoom meeting because the meetings will still be zoomed through the summer so um thank you pam and chris for sending that out this week um and the second thing chris was just michael during our break had brought up this um the gis you had this in our packet and he was just wondering i know it was a part of your master plan you know these are great gis maps and whether or not you know appendices you started to touch on it but i assume ben had been working on these yes ben was working on them and i think they're pretty self-explanatory if you read them they look sort of daunting when you just glance at them but um if you want me to i can quickly go through them um and if you have them in your hands uh you can look at them the first page is um indicative of the kinds of anomalies that we see where and he's taking uh different um years of the gis maps and comparing them to one another so if you look at the one on the far left we're looking at echo hill which is exactly where i am right now because that's where i live um so in 1999 um echo hill was the the top one pam but yeah this one right here that you've got yep that's good okay the one on the far left uh echo hill appeared to be bare like a desert and echo hill wasn't a bare desert in 1999 it had plenty of trees in fact i lived here then but it was shown as residential use so it was shown as all bare in the next slide we have 2005 mass gis just get where it is yeah i went to the right of the first one and that's um the 2005 rendition of echo hill and you can also see jenks street up there to the north and it makes it look like all of a sudden there were the trees grew like mad between 1999 and 2005 and that's obviously not true um so it's showing you know little pieces of yellow where the houses are and then the next slide over 2016 it makes it look like echo hill is in the middle of you know the national forest and so you can see the the problem we have in comparing years of maps if you compare 1999 to 2016 what is in yellow in 1999 is residential use and what's in yellow in 2016 is residential use so you would be under the impression that we had lost a lot of residential use in amherst and that we had gained a lot of forest land well the forest land and the residential use occupy the same place so we have to figure out how to explain this in our master plan update that um the information was characterized differently 20 years ago than it is today um but you know the place is the same it just appears completely differently in these maps so that's a conundrum that we're discussing with the IT department and our new fellow Ben who happens to be very knowledgeable about GIS that just gives you a sense of the kinds of things that we are wrestling with I think you can you know review these maps at your leisure they they're not that hard to figure out the later ones have a table next to them that explains what they're all about and the next time we talk about the master plan we can talk about some of these maps and tables so how's that is that good thank you I see michael's hand out the reason I asked the question was because I wasn't sure how they related master plan document are they supposed to be an appendix to section three or are they going to be incorporated in section three or what exactly is their ultimate use and also I I have a hard time I don't I have a pretty decent magnifying glass and even with that I can't read the text in the the the legend of the on the first page so this is part of a question I have for you uh initially I asked Ben and the IT department to fill me in on the information that's in the land use section of the by of the master plan where it says you know x number of acres are now agricultural land and this is an increase of 20 percent over 1999 I asked him for simple information like that so in order to get that simple information he went back and and looked at how the information was compiled back when the 2010 master plan came about and he realized that the information in the appendices was where he had to go to try to figure out how they got that information so he got really involved in looking at at the land use chapter in the appendices and trying to figure it out so that's where these maps came from so one of my questions to you is do you think that people are going to care about updating the appendices and I'm hoping that you'll say no and that what is important is the information that that we and my staff can glean out of it to put into the update such as how many acres are currently in conservation how many acres are currently in residential use so that the numbers that were in the original master plan in the text portion where we're comparing one thing and another is what we are really interested in and we don't really care about updating all of those appendices because I feel like that is a big project that's probably something that would require the help of a consultant to do they're probably not we don't have the staff to really do all that during this update so does that that yes that's that's exactly what I was thinking the maps are very interesting as as a as a study of maps but they don't provide any more information than is than we would otherwise come from the the current map and the information could be from the current map and I think the information in text form for this purpose is much more useful than the information in visual form okay good that's what I think and um oh no I don't see any more hands okay um great thank you for that Chris all right so at that point I think we have adjournment do I hear a motion to adjourn or moved okay and I know someone's going to second it great um so thank you thank you Amherst media thank you planning board for all your time and hard work we're covering a lot of stuff so I'll see you on the third and remember Chris will be sending out emails with lots of do things thank you thank you Pam it's very interesting and thank you Pam you're welcome good night thanks everybody you have a great weekend it's yes yes I'm going to end it oh wait I gotta stop recording high five iPhone right now we're done recording all right all right jack one thing remember I said three hours and 15 minutes