 When you said that the the manosphere has moved from being like pick-up artistry to a situation where when Anthony was talking about the different vectors of the manosphere yesterday I was thinking one of them is going to have to be religion another one's going to have to be philosophy so in a sense the fastest way to bring people to religion is through pushing into the material world so if you push through pick-up artistry for example and you're successful and you fulfill every weird niche sexual fantasy with different shaped women from this place that place in the other and you actually win that game you then find yourself in a place of despair yeah and then you despair at when you go well I won what did I win I won a series of strange belittling humiliating and alienating experiences that left me feeling horrified really it's it's it's hellish as as distracting and as pleasurable as it might be in the moment it's awful afterwards so that really the despair was what brought me to thinking like this is when do I so I reversed it I would say from because my background is psychology when do you feel good when I'm in nature when I'm reading a book when I'm talking to my friends when I'm and I was like well what's what's the what's that the super experience and I'm like I think it's called connection I think it's called reverence for being you know I look at the stars I look at the trees now my body my physiology my mind goes into a different state and I'm like what is this this is maybe like a sort of a religious experience if I stayed in that space I felt good if I went into the other space I felt bad was that I kept it simple yeah but what's interesting about why I think 21 is becoming this forum that it is is women are don't deal with conflict way we do right men love to talk about politics because we because we like to talk about ultimate things we're concerned in rule and order and all that stuff but we can argue intensely right even scream sometimes and then afterwards feel closer yeah and that's not that's not how it works with a woman that they'll be they'll feel alienated for a long time yeah but it's actually a place where since we all want to be masculine we don't want to be effeminate we can have these hard conversations about about different forms of government and about religion and so it makes sense to me that that shows that 21 is maturing into manhood in a sense yeah part of manhood is being able to have hard conversations and go at each other and then afterwards have a drink right and that's exactly what happens here I do have a question though and I'll go back to you actually give a honest assessment so we have every part of the church here right we have the Romans we've got the Orthodox and the Protestants those are the three major wings of Christian but we're all Christians this year right up here except for you and the best Protestants do what's that the real like the real deal there's such thing as a protest I'm sorry that's what you're protesting um but but anyway salvation by works yeah but look um Christianity is dominated by women 60% is in most churches the of the membership as women it goes much higher people will say that well that's because religion is men aren't religious and that's just complete nonsense right but Islam is very masculine and it's at least in it's a people that subscribe to it Orthodox Jews but but Christianity is dominated by the feminine in a lot of ways as someone who is not in a Christian church right what why do you think it is what what's your honest assessment of it culturally why do men not like Christianity right now I will I'll I'll do my best okay and bearing in mind I'm nowhere near as educated as the men on this panel what it seems to me is that the way what the Christianity is presented unlike Orthodox Judaism or Islam is you kind of have a freedom of how you interpret it way more than other religions and if it's very easy to take certain Gospels that are very appealing to feminine coordinates like agreeability agreeable necessary cooperation and going along to get along feeding the poor and then everything sort of leans yin versus yang the feminine principle it becomes very about equality and socialism and then when I've when I've looked at it when I so there's a there's a sort of a flavor of Christianity that you can have and then I look again and I go but I've seen other flavors I was raised in a different way and the interpretations that I was given in other places and for example I used to train martial arts with Russians and they were extraordinarily religion that their religion was part of the mystical process of learning the martial art and they they weren't feminine there was nothing feminine about what they were doing and so I realized you know it seems to be open to interpretation it can be hijacked and it can be used to fulfill an ideological agenda and I don't mean that in some grand conspiracy your ideological agenda might be I feel better when everybody gets along and doesn't argue so I'm gonna present this as a religion of not arguing but as you just said that isn't what the religion is no guys will you say you get we're we're here I don't have this clearly we care about masculinity and femininity and we want men in our church why aren't they in our church so at least not in the numbers they should be I mean it was basically breaks down 50-50 in terms of male female in the higher population so 9 to 10 15 20% skewed one way or the other says something what do you think is going on why do men reject Christianity I do think that one one reason and I really like if you want a book length treatment of this I think Leon Podols that's how you pronounce it he wrote the church impotent I think is the title and he talks quite a bit about more historical roots and goes pretty deep in some of the movements and this is not just true today this has been true for some time and there are historic reasons why as well I think a lot of the the issue though is that when you when you filter Christian theology or a vision of Christ through a modern lens particularly in our culture you end up filtering out all of the parts of Christ that are absolutely present in the Gospels where he is being typically masculine I mean where he is cleansing the temple where he is absolutely scorched earth rebuking the the false the false shepherds of Israel as whited tombs full of dead men men's bones as hypocrites who heat heavy burdens on widows and orphans and don't lift them with their little finger I mean Jesus is a prophet Jesus is a king Jesus is a true priest meaning he does the work of working and keeping and protecting he kills the serpent Jesus is the the omnimascular man he is David his David's son he is the Goliath Slayer he hooks Leviathan through the nose Job 41 I mean you just go through and you look at this picture of Yahweh incarnate and Christ and what you find is this astonishingly masculine figure but then when you when you have an oversimplified version a plastic version of masculinity and femininity femininity that reduces each sex to their just polarities you have a vision of masculinity and femininity that's one-dimensional and then you end up just completely overemphasizing one of those polls so Jesus of course is meek he's meek he says the meek will inherit the earth and men look at that without understanding meekness holistically as strength under control and channeled towards the end of the good and the true and the beautiful and they think that meekness means that you are effeminate and then if that culturally is lived out in the church it creates an environment where churches then select as their ideal man pastors are supposed to be an ideal man in the congregation and they select men who are ruled by women they select men who are absolutely in the pocket of women and so you end up with a lot of churches that are run by you know functional matriarchies that then creates a culture that men are uncomfortable in especially blue-collar men who are and then you add to an act to that an academic culture in the training of pastors in masters and postgraduate level degrees where they're doing a lot of academic work which absolutely ought to be masculine but can tend towards the effeminate where you're rejecting practice from your theory and they become theoreticians so I think there are lots of different vectors that explain it but that that's kind of I think where I would I think a part of the reason why is because religion in its truest sense