 Thank you so much for joining the Farming Podcast brought to you by Private Property. My name is Mbali Noacko, as always, your host. Every Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8pm right here on the Private Property Channel. Thank you so much for choosing us as your preferred podcast, not only is it the Farming Podcast but all the other podcasts that we bring through to you from the Private Property Home. We have Zama during the week and also SD, then we have Chad over the week and bringing you fantastic houses or homes rather that you could start browsing and start looking for a new space to live in. So thank you so much for your continuous support in all our different podcasts and most importantly the Farming Podcast as well because we want to turn you into, you know, turning your home garden into a sustainable food source. And if you're starting a farm or growing a farm, again the Farming Podcast is a place to be because we bring such exciting guests and bring you awareness of the phenomenal entrepeneurs, farmers, professionals on the ground that we have in the agri-industry that is definitely bringing a lot more value into this beautiful sector that we all love. Today I'm joined by two gentlemen who are entrepeneurs in this space and they're going to tell us about data-driven farming. They've come up with a business that is less than five years old and it involves drone and they'll tell us all about their technology and what I like about this specific business is that it can, you know, service any farmer irrespective of land size. However, you know, I would like the two gentlemen to obviously give us more detail in today's business and so if you have any questions or are curious about how important data is in your farming operations and what exactly you can do with data, then this episode tonight is definitely one for you. So please feel free to comment, like, share and obviously ask questions directly to the guests this evening which I will read out live and we will be happy to respond to whatever farming needs or specific topic needs that we're discussing this evening. So without further ado, let me introduce the team from Curai which is an AgriTech startup and I am joined by Clive Mate as well as Samuel Mateja. Gentlemen, how are you doing? And thank you so much for coming onto the show. Thank you so much, Bani, for the introduction and thank you for having us today. Good evening, Bani and your guests, thank you so much for this opportunity. It's a pleasure. Thank you. I want to start with Clive, perhaps. How did you come about incorporating Curai and why specifically did you bring this technology aspect within agriculture? Why couldn't you go for any other industry? So maybe tell us a bit about who or what Curai is and why did you decide to start your business in the AgriTech space? Thank you so much, Bani. I mean, Curai was born from more of a passion project that I and Sam had, obviously stemming from our historical experience growing up more specifically in the farming community. So growing up by the access to a small-scale farm, obviously, actively involved in activities in the farm. So that could be something like weeding and crop spraying and pretty much just trying to monitor and see if we can identify any issues, and that was 10, 15 years ago when I was still growing up. Obviously, the whole thing changed, went to Vasity, became an aerospace engineer, worked in the industry for quite some time, and we gathered quite a lot of knowledge and experience. And as you might know, the aerospace industry is probably one of the sectors that really gets access to take way early on before any industry does. So that experience and the access to tech that it kind of gave us and obviously making it back to my experience is, I guess, a son of a farmer, right? It then became obvious that there was a need to then define value and push it back to the experiences that we had. Now, as we were forming Curai, in our heads, it was value that we were creating that 10-year-old client was going to use and see value in. I mean, Sam will probably speak more on the actual tech, how things work and I guess how it then defines value for farms, but the whole idea is to push the use of data, push the use of pretty much optimizing the access to resources that we have to, at the end of the day, increase productive efficiencies as a farm. Now, there's aspects where we are seeing a farm as more of a social activity, more specifically for small-scale farms, but for us to be really productive and push the barriers to not only achieving food security, but then to then start deriving more profitability as a continent, there is need to treat a farm as a business. And if you're going to treat a farm as a business, it means there's productive relationships between inputs and outputs. And wherever there is such a relationship, we then speak of tech that optimizes the actual productive function. And that's pretty much what Corel does, right, is to push the productive efficiencies specifically for pre-havoc in efficiencies, aspects of the farm. Okay, awesome. Sam, I'd like to come to you because following with what Clive said, you know, he was born and bred, he grew up in a farm environment, and I know you're more of the tech business partner in this relationship. And following up on what Clive has just said, you know, following up on data on your farm, how your farm runs, treating your farm like a business, what exactly does Corel do? Is it a product or a service to the farmer? And what exactly does it do? So what type of tech does Corel use and how can it benefit my business? Cool. Thank you for such a great question, Bali. So like Clive explained earlier on, technology is the best way to leapfrog all the inefficiencies that are happening currently in pre-havoc inefficiencies in farming. The way that Corel technology works is that we work hand in hand with farmers, farm managers, and all the employees on the ground. We provide them with data-driven insights. We do this by using ITIC sensors, so usually in the form of drone equipment. We come to your farm, you fly over your piece of land, any crops that you do have in the ground. We then aggregate all of this data, bring it back in-house, analyze it through machine learning processes. So basically, that's just the fancy way that we pick out patterns. And from these patterns, we can then deduce how any stresses that you might have on your crops, any watering issues that you might be experiencing, any pests that are possibly spreading and are going to affect your yields at the end of the day. So with this insight that is given to you in a timeless manner, you will then be able to act as a farmer and be able to interject as well as plan ahead for the season. Okay. Thank you for that. So tell me, what type of farmer should be using Corai? Is it a farmer that's producing on open land? Is it a farmer that's producing under crop protections or tunnels, shade nets? What type of farmer is using Corai? So because we are using an aerial method to gather our data, we would inherently prefer open field crops, not under any shading or any protection. What usually happens is that we work with most of our clients during the summer periods. And then if farmers do then prefer to go into tunnels or cover their crops, we will then are starting of thinking of employing other soil sensors, sensors that stick in the ground to also be able to gather that data so that we can give you insights and input on how your crops are performing and give you data driven actions to still help you reap the full harvest. Right. Still with you, Sam. Thank you for that. It's open field aerial mapping. That's the purpose of your technology. Going back to the crops, are we talking about tree crops? So if you're farming any fruits, citrus, etc., or can a farmer with maize or doing grains, producing grains, use Corai technology? Furthermore, can a farmer maybe farming vegetables? You know, if it's a crop that just lost on the ground for three months, do you think it's still applicable for a vegetable farmer to use Corai or is it just specifically for long term crops? Oh, thank you. That's a very good question. So unlike many of our other competitors out there, Corai is not limited to a single crop or a tree crop of a vineyard. We work across the whole country, all the way from the West End Cape to Limbo, who are dealing with grain crops, vegetables, vineyards, tree crops. The analysis would definitely change because the pests and infections that are dealt with in tree crops are totally different to vegetables and vineyards. And we've spent the past couple of years working on our software and technology to accurately give customers the correct feedback. So yes, we do have extensive experience with a whole variety of crops handled across the African continent. Great. Coming on to you, Clive, and I hope you can explain this in the most simplest manner as possible. You know, maybe talk to a farmer. You know, I am a farmer, but yeah, as if you're talking directly to a farmer without using the high tech jargon, et cetera, that's going to confuse us. So today I'm a maize farmer. I want to use Corai to identify pests and diseases in my farm. How does it work? Am I flying the drone every single day? Is there a specific time that I need to fly? And then once it detects that, what happens? So maybe just provide us like on the ground, how would one literally or physically interact and use Corai? I think it's body for that question is quite relevant. I think also needful as well. So how we work is we obviously face build some kind of relationship with the farm. In this case, some kind of contract that obviously allows us to then come to your farm and start collecting data and the likes, right? So depending on the crop, depending on the crop, it then determines the actual frequency. So the number of times we come and collect data. Obviously, if it's a more sensitive crop like lettuce, we'll probably then come to your farm every two weeks. If it's an open field crop like maize will come to your farm every four to six weeks. The whole idea is to collect data at each and every different stage of, I guess, the crop growth phase. And that does two things, right? The first thing it does is obviously tell us what's happening at that particular point in time. But then if you collect all the different timeframes that we collect this data, you then start to see some kind of a pattern on what's really happening in your farm, which areas are underperforming, which areas are overperforming and things like that. But the bigger picture in why pretty much is called crop monitoring, right? So that you kind of detach from being worried with what's happening on your farm. So you can detach with aspects of pest infections, for instance. You can detach with any aspect that is related to your crop being, your crop yields being threatened by any crop stress or it can be heat stress or dehydration stress. Now, if you have detached all those factors to cry and cry because of the contact that has been set up, what comes to your farm in that frequency, which is obviously determined by the crop. And the rest I'll show you, you know, like if any of those issues arise, you're going to get some kind of notification actually of the inside being pushed to you as a farmer through our platform or through whatever means is our way more convenient. So the idea is that if any of those threatening situations arise, they get pushed to you timely enough that you can then act before a significant portion of the yields are then threatened. I mean, historically, 90% of potential threats have been eliminated through our interaction like this. Obviously, there's other factors that come in regarding to you as a farmer having access to platforms to, for instance, spray or crops if you identify any pest, obviously, let's say, apply fertilizer if you identify any soil deficiencies and the likes. But it's more of a quite an active engagement between the teammate cry coming to your farm and collecting data and you having access to that information quite timely as well. So it's more of an active engagement than us just coming once a year or once or once in a few months. It's going to be kind of a relationship that we're building. And just to understand correctly, Clive, I hear you saying just collecting data and we know what's the regulations around the puppy. So who keeps that data? Who owns that data? And when you're collecting the data for the farmer, are you providing recommendations on how the farmer can improve in his or her production? Or is it just collecting data, putting it in a format where a farmer can understand whether it's in the form of graph, Excel spreadsheet, and maybe the farmer can take that information, sit with the agronomist and they just start planning to say, where are we going right and where are we going wrong? So maybe just expand a little bit on that part. Yes, so when we speak of data, there's obviously different levels of the actual data. I mean, the data itself gets transformed through our processes into information, into knowledge, then eventually into wisdom, right? So you as the farmer on the right to the actual data and information, but then the upper levels, which are the actual actionable insights that we give to you, that's a bit of a fuzzy area, right? Because that's wisdom that we have developed over the past years through our own experience and our own AI becoming smarter and smarter. So that's a bit of a fuzzy element on who really owns the data. But the actual insights that we then push to you, it's something that you don't really then have to be able to make, say for instance, know how to interpret an Excel graph or something like that. We try to eliminate all those aspects for you as a farmer. And that's why you call them actionable insights or just discernment, right? So for instance, what we then give you as an output is a map with, let's say, red, green and some kind of orange areas, obviously those being portions of the farm. And it's a simple summary that says the red farms are dehydrated. Now, you have to basically apply some kind of spraying whatever it is that you do or the people farms need fertilizer to be applied at a rate of 30 kgs per ton. Now, we are trying to detach you from the actual analytics of giving you our graphs and spreadsheets and the likes. I mean, that's the job of a scientist and that's basically what the big end team at Corai is doing, right? Trying to simplify the complex. Because all we need to do is to know what we're doing and we act on that. And then the actual results get seen by the actual efficiency, the improvement in the crop yields, the improvement in you yourself as a farmer spending less money in the actual fertilizer, in the actual pesticides, but realizing an increased yield at the end of the day. Right. Before I move on to Sam, Clive, I just want to ask you one last question here with regards to what you've just said. So how many hectares does one farmer have to have to be able to use Corai to make sure that the costs make business sense? What's the minimum starting or entry level number of hectares that one would need to have in order to use Corai? I mean, there is no limit in theory in terms of what the size of the farm can be. It can be a garden, it can be one hectare farm. It can be a 400 hectare farm. There really is no limit, right? The only constraint that didn't come to play because of the physical aspects related to us going to a farm and pretty much collecting data is then the aspect that then relates to the actual fixed cost of us going to the farm and driving to the farm, right? And because of such reasons, we kind of then work with different modules where if we have a number of small scale farms, we kind of like aggregate them together and say on a particular Tuesday, we are going to reach in A with 20 farms, pretty much growing the same crop, right? I mean, there's a high chance that if it's in the same sport, then they're pretty much growing the same crop in the same age. So because of those modules that we then use, that then kind of not only saves costs for us as a company, but also then reduces the cost of us saving you as a farm and hence the price that we charge on you. So there's those particular modules. And obviously you kind of get situations where we're dealing with your large scale farms. And in that aspect, it's very much feasible for us to just come to your farm and collect the data. Got it, got it. Sam, moving on to you and with what Clavis just said, that it's best to work with farmers who are working together so that you could aggregate them to make sure that the fly to the drone process, the drone flying process is easier for you to collect data. But I know that models like that typically work in different regions within the African continent, but South Africa specifically is quite unique because there's a lot of small scale farmers, widely dispersed from a geographical point of view. And farmers who are farming as a collective or in a small community will typically be farmers maybe who are part of a specific program, farmers who are part of a cooperative. So now, how are you solving the challenges around where you're finding Mbali in Kharteng, Mbali in Limpopo, Mbali in Northwest that maybe is farming maize each on 50 hectares, but you have to physically go to their farm. So how are you dealing with the logistical or geographical challenges to say, this week I need to be at this person's farm, et cetera, especially if we're farming the same crop and the data or analysis needs to happen pretty much at the same time. So thank you. That's also a great question. And one of the biggest bottlenecks dealing with small scale farms in the Southern Hemisphere, in Southern Africa. The way we deal with that is we work largely with cooperatives and organizations that are managing or work with these farms in particular and all their suppliers. And we try to correlate all that information to schedule our flights and our monitoring trips as we visit these farms. We're also looking at another business model where we will then try to equip these local farmers to be able to fly drones for themselves. I know OIR is a big talking point at the moment. Cleve and I were privileged enough to go aeromotical engineering and we worked a lot in the aerospace industry. So we understand a lot about flight dynamics, but we also wanna empower or equip people with their knowledge and know how to handle such technology and to be able to do it for themselves. So our current model is that we would work with all the cooperatives and managing partners in how to facilitate that they just capturing, but eventually we wanna get to the point where they will be able to do the flights and the collection for themselves. That was actually gonna be my follow up question to say, just to limit the moving parts between you two as the co-founders of KURAI, could I just buy or rent out your drone fly it on my farm? And then it's collecting insights and gathering information and then sit on a desktop, have a Zoom call like this where both of you gentlemen could then just advise in terms of the type of information or data that I'm reading. So I wanted to know the follow up question was literally going to be, can one just fly the drone by themselves and then you would obviously provide that advisory service post flight on what the data actually says or is reading. Okay, just to add on that. So our biggest problem with that is just the South African Civil Aviation Authority Regulations. So in order for you to be able to do that for yourself, you're gonna by law are required to have a drone pilot's license, the drone, the aircraft needs to be registered with the Civil Aviation Authority as well. And as well as the company is gonna need to have an operator's license called an ROC in order to operate in South Africa. So that's also a legally a requirement that you're gonna need to consider before being able to do that. But like I said, we're working with partners and stakeholders both in government, the Department of Transport and the South African Civil Aviation Authority in order to expedite that process. It's a very simple procedure to follow. This business model has been tested out. We have clients out in Africa. We currently partnered in Lagos. We partners are doing the flying of drones by themselves and then they just send the data to us. We do the processing and give them back the insights. So the only biggest speed hand is just legislation in South Africa. But as soon as that is caught up, yeah, that will be the way forward. Amazing, gentlemen. It sounds like you've just done so much research and development since you started Karay and really thought it through about the needs that a farmer has and how can we perfect our systems on our farms. Clive, coming on to you, as Sam was speaking, I remember that a part of your service offering not only provides aerial mapping and just obviously providing data on what you've just seen based on how high the drone flies, et cetera, and the information it captures. I know that part of your service offering also provides spraying. So like there's a physical drone that you could use over your fields and it's spraying, correcting that specific part of the field, et cetera. Now, coming on to that, there is also a lot of technology advancement where there are self-driven tractors that have boom sprayers at the back that maybe have a capacity to carry, let's say, I don't know, 200 liters and maybe cover hectares and hectares of land. So tell us about the technical specifications on your specific drone spraying. So how many liters can one flight hold and how many hectares can that cover? Because what I'm trying to find out here is how many times, so let's say I'm farming on 500 hectares, how many times would I have to have a drone flying to spray and I'm trying to compare versus a tractor, maybe they could drive itself, but has a capacity to maybe spray, has a capacity to hold 200 liters and spray maybe all my hectares at a go. So how many, just give us the technical specifications around your drone equipment, specifically on the spraying pot and how many hectares would one flight cover? I think it's in value for that question. I mean, perhaps before I get to the actual technical aspects in terms of the operational performance, I think it's worth just mentioning generally why we initially embarked on this journey of literally designing and developing our own crop spraying drones. I mean, they should eventually come life, I mean, within a next few months, specifically because of the CAA regulations that Sam mentioned. So what, obviously taking back again to our experience in the farming activities growing up, you realize that besides the actual information patch, that we've been speaking about I think all up to this stage, the other second biggest, I guess, inefficiency that farmers have pre-harvest, specifically for small and medium scale farms is the actual access to infrastructure. So access to platforms that then perform the key activities that we need, right? And you realize that if you basically break down all the activities, one of the chief and really crucial ones is the actual crop spraying, obviously then linked to the actual application of fertilizer. And that's why we then embarked on this journey of designing and developing our crop spraying drones. And the primary reason was to define access of these platforms to small and medium scale farms in a way that obviously is affordable but still does the job way more conveniently, right? So I mean, a single drone, for instance, can be used by four or five different farms in one particular day. Now having a defined access, right? We then bring it down to the, I guess the fortunate part but because of the access to tech and the decreased cost actually of accessing technology, these funds are even way more efficient in applying, it can be fertilizer or pesticides compared to your tractors and aircraft even, right? I mean, there's particular reasons for that. It's a system that basically flies low enough. We usually fly like two, three meters above the crop. So the actual pesticides, the actual droplets are applied to the crop surface way more efficiently. So obviously speaking of 20 to 30% are savings in just the pesticides. But now the biggest element of the actual savings, the efficiency comes in when you cope with the actual data analytics and the actual application. So give a scenario, we fly in a 10 hectare farm. We realize that only 0.5 hectares is affected by pest. So now we need to spray that portion, right? Ideally with a tractor or any other platform you're coming basically dam chemicals in the 10 hectares. Now with the actual drone, because it's also data driven it knows where it is to every square centimeter in the farm. What we just do is take a prescription map from our analytics, upload it to the drone and it pretty much goes exactly where the infection is, right? Obviously it goes with it much more quicker but also it means you have saved the 9.5 hectares with a bit of chemical. Now that's a huge 95% savings in that given scenario. You've spent less money but you've also obviously dealt with a given threat. Now let's go to the specifications of these actual drones, right? And I guess one of the most in something with the redimensioning is the actual spray rate. Rate in terms of how much you can cover at a given time. So our current platforms, if I obviously mentioned it in terms of the number of hectares per day speaking of something like between 45 and 50 hectares per given day depending on the terrain and the complexity of the farm. Now the platform itself can carry up to 16 liters at a given time. Now that might sound quite small, right? But then if you look at the actual rate and the speed at which this platform covers and you then realize that you can easily just replace the payload just like that. So in any given hour we're talking of close to 100 liters of chemical being applied to a given crop, right? Obviously there's scenarios where if you're doing quite some heavy spraying where it really becomes impractical at this stage. So we cannot for instance apply 300 liters per hectare. So there are those scenarios where we say you know what? We can just advise and identify areas that are infected but we then detach ourselves from the actual spraying of our platforms and not yet at that stage. But for any medium to ultra light spraying rates anything below 60 liters per hectare the drone is by far the most efficient platform to use. Right. I like the fact that you mentioned that the drone goes low enough to be close enough to the crop to spray because we've seen some commercial farmers and farmers just let's just say established farmers who are farming in hundreds of hectares using helicopters to spray. And I'm always asked myself like you know that whatever chemicals they spraying is obviously getting blown by the wind. You know, even if you're spraying on a day that is not so windy but you kind of see that the chemicals moving away to the side, you know. And I like the fact that the drone just hovers just low enough to the crop to spray a specific area. So therefore, you know, I suppose you as a farmer if you're using that method you're not doing preventative spraying. You know, you're not just spraying at a blanket approach. You're spraying to fix a certain problem at a certain space. So you're obviously saving on chemical costs, et cetera fertilizer costs if needs be. Genuine, this sounds like a fantastic business that you've built. And I'm sure it's not the last that we hear from you from the farming podcast and just in the industry at large and hopefully a lot more farmers could use this technology and also understand the importance of using data on the farms because I was speaking to a group of farmers today to tell them that, you know data is so important even if you're seeking finance even if you're trying to understand the yields per hectare on your farm you need data to make that informed decision. And when investors want to invest in your business they want to know how much can you produce at which seasons, at which different seasons and the reasons why you're producing that. So, you know, farming is definitely a business but I just want to know from having incorporated Karai what have been some of the milestones or the accomplishments that you guys have achieved that's far and the biggest learnings, you know sometimes, you know, entrepreneurs like yourself develop a product or a service thinking that farmers might need this but when you actually go and trial run the actual product or the service you find that, oh, there's a lot of tweaks and changes that we need to make because what we thought does not really translate into reality. So just to sum up the show because we are running out of time just a quick one, maybe either of you could answer either of the two questions to say firstly what have been some of the milestones and accomplishments having started Karai and then also what have been the biggest learnings bringing Karai into the farmers and once the farmers have used the product or your service offering what have been the biggest learnings? So what have been the biggest learnings and what have been your accomplishments since you guys started? I'll let you decide who answers which. Okay, go on about the biggest learnings. I think so far we were kind of privileged because we both came from an extensive farming background so we had a lot of insight but we also on the other hand had a third eye if you may call it that being outside the industry so being aero engineers we could give them we could show them something that they never thought of or something that they've never seen before and that was very also a big hump, a speeder hump trying to convince people that the technology does work to believe and trust in the process that took a very long time but eventually a lot of people came around because their results spoke for themselves. So I think that our biggest challenge is. Thank you, Clark. I think for me when it comes to the I guess the accomplishments just generally being able to produce a really amazing product. I mean, not amazing in the sense from an engineering perspective we love engineering, I love drones. Obviously amazing that respect, right? But I mean, I could possibly point to two or three scenarios where we just see the light in the face of a farmer, right? Initially by them just like seeing this tech so I guess they say the crop spraying drone just seeing the drone hovering and flying up and down the amazement but also 30, 40 minutes down the line when this drone is sprayed five to six hectares and how they are so thrilled but at the same time it's like there's fulfillment in them that prior to this, right? In this particular scenario I just spent 40 minutes of my time and this thing has been finished comparing that to the pain that they usually feel, right? Of trying to hire a tractor for the day spend three or four hours up and down with the tractor possibly missing spots. I mean, that's a scenario that we've read quite a while where they miss sports with tractors and things. I mean, just a farm seeing the fulfillment between the two scenarios and then just loving the insights we're providing to them and acting and immediately, almost immediately in some cases seeing the impact that the services define like that for me is just fulfilling, beautiful feeling. Thank you so much gentlemen for your time this evening. I thoroughly appreciate our conversation and yeah, I wish you all the best with your business and your service offering. I guess I hope that from this conversation we get more farmers curious about how do they incorporate data into their farms to make strategic decisions for the next season, for the next planting cycle, et cetera. And yeah, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us and your experience and the reasoning behind incorporating Karai. But thank you so much for your time this evening. Thank you so much buddy, you're really at a great time. It's a pleasure, thank you. That was Clive Mathe and Sam Matheche from Karai, the co-founders of Karai, which is an AgriTech startup incorporated in 2018 and they were talking about data-driven farming and the data pretty much comes from the service that they offer to farmers using drone technology to do aerial mapping of the farm to identify any unwanted pests and diseases on your crops. It could be used for short-term crops, vegetables, long-term crops, you know and it's not specific to the size of the farm but what the technology does really is help you identify the problem areas in your farm and you specifically tackle those specific areas. At the end of the day, cutting you, saving you costs from a fertilizer consumption, insecticide consumption and I think another one, a petrol or diesel consumption, you know, because when you use boom sprays you have to always buy petrol or diesel and two-stroke oil and so you know I think what's great about their technology it really tackles the most critical and problematic areas on the farm instead of having to use a blanket approach in your entire production. If you'd like to reach out to the gentlemen, go to their website, Karai, K-U-R-A-I. I don't know, is that dot com or dot co dot z-a, Clive? Just dot co. Okay, so karai.co, go onto the website. They have all the services and you know, the journey around the business and what they offer to the farmers, information that you need right there and their contact details. So thank you so much for watching onto the show. I will catch you on Thursday, 8 p.m. and looking forward to the guests that we'll have then and for you to also engage and interact with the upcoming episode. But thank you so much for supporting the podcast and you could catch us on YouTube if you missed this conversation tonight. That's it for me. Take care.