 All right, everybody. I am here to introduce our next speaker. Our next speaker is Nick Halsey. He's a WordPress user, theme designer, plugin developer, and core contributor. As a customized component maintainer for core, he's focused on improving both user and developer experience, introducing features such as panels, menu management, JavaScript templated controls, media controls, device preview, additional CSS, and theme installation in the customizer. Nick works full-time at KPFF Consulting Engineers, designing new building structures and seismic retrofits. He is also a multi-instrumentalist and classical composer specializing in cello ensemble music. Very cool. So welcome, Nick, to the stage. Hey, so I'm Nick Halsey, and today I'm going to be talking about seven keys to sustainable WordPress projects inspired by buildings. When I'm talking about WordPress projects, this could be anything from you have your own website and you're managing your content to you're creating a website for a client, or even if you're creating WordPress themes or plugins to be distributed. And my goal with talking about sustainability today is really to think about longevity. And one of the things that I think we tend to think about with buildings is that they're relatively permanent. We don't see them as having a very short lifespan whereas a lot of digital projects may only last a few years. In reality, buildings have relatively finite lifespans. A lot of new buildings are designed to last only 40 years and buildings are lucky to last 100 years like this one did here. And despite the relatively short lifespan of buildings, a building design and construction project, a large project could cost hundreds of millions of dollars and take several years to design and build. And so with that in mind, in the building design and construction industry, there's a movement to really focus on sustainability, efficiency, and resiliency extending the lifespan of our buildings. And so I'm gonna talk about a few examples of that before we get into WordPress. This is the Portland building. It's in downtown Portland and was built in the 80s. It was built originally for less than $30 million. But now 35 years later, we're in the middle of an almost $200 million project to completely rebuild the building. And the reason for that is that it was originally built for efficiency in cost. And so it was built as inexpensively as possible using very efficient systems in terms of actually building it, but then the functionality of the building wasn't efficient. And so as a result, we're now as taxpayers having to go back and spend a lot of money to bring that up to current standards and create something that's actually functional and will last another 50 to 100 years. Just across the park from the Portland building is the Edith Green-Whittle Wyatt Federal Building, which is the image on your left is what it looked like originally when it was completed in the 70s. In 2013, the building was completely rebuilt as an icon for environmental sustainability. So this is actually the same building here and they completely replaced all of the cladding with a new solar-tuned facade system that is intended to optimize natural light while also optimizing the energy usage of the building. It also features solar panels and other sustainable features. The biggest thing with this example, though, is that this is an adaptive reuse of an existing building. They didn't tear the building down and completely start from scratch. They reused the elements that they could and were able to greatly reduce the environmental impact of the project by reusing the building instead of completely starting over. Efficiency and sustainability can often be at odds with each other, though. And we see that really frequently in Portland as new buildings go up that are built primarily out of concrete. The most common construction procedure here in Portland is a post-tensioned flat concrete slab similar to the building you see here. And the reason is that you can fit a lot of floors within a relatively short height and we have relatively short height limits here in Portland. And so you can fit density, you can fit more housing units in a smaller building by using this system. But despite the efficiency of the concrete structure, concrete itself is one of the materials with the highest environmental impact. And so we're balancing between, yes, we can build something really efficiently, but we also have to consider the environmental impact and the lack of environmental sustainability of building that way. And then the other term I wanna give an example of a building with is resiliency. Here in the Pacific Northwest, we have a lot of seismic hazards. We are expecting a very large magnitude nine plus earthquake to hit the region sometime in the next couple hundred years. And as a result, a lot of building owners are starting to look at how do we improve the resiliency of our buildings so that they'll be able to withstand those seismic events and continue functioning after those. This particular building was built less than 30 years ago and this is a public building out in Washington County, out in Hillsborough. And the county has decided that they really want to make sure that their buildings can continue operating after the earthquake. So they're now going through these relatively new buildings and going through the extensive process to seismically upgrade them so that they'll be able to continue serving the public following a seismic event. And so now I wanna get into my seven keys and thinking a little bit about specifically how we can take some things that happen with buildings and apply that to WordPress in creating sustainable and longer-lasting projects. And my first point with that is to consider building codes. For buildings, codes are prescriptive legal requirements, somewhat localized, that define all sorts of things from fire and life safety to egress, how to design a structural system, and other prescriptive legal requirements for how you actually put a building together. Before a building can start construction, the design team needs to submit to a government entity documents that show that the building design that's gonna get built actually conforms to all of those legal code requirements to ensure that the building is safe for everyone to be in. On the web, there are some cases where we have legal requirements, but generally speaking, there's a lot less structure to legal requirements for building codes of the web. There are a number of web platform standards that are out there that can serve that purpose, and in my opinion, should really be treated like a legal requirement even when they aren't. And there are a lot of different standards that I'm not gonna get into a whole lot of detail on right now, but the most important things to think about are creating semantic markup and making your site accessible. If your content is semantically structured, you've got heading tags instead of just large font sizes when you have headings, things like that. It's improving the machine readability of your work. And as over time, our different device input modes change. Smartphones, and now we're getting into other things. What might we have in the future? If we're trying to create new projects in such a way that they'll last into that next evolution of technology, doing things to ensure that our content's machine readable, and that also will lend itself to search engine optimization because Google can read your content as well, will really help ensure that your work will last the test of time. Next, I wanna talk about the zoning code. And with respect to buildings, the zoning code is a local set of requirements that talks about what type of a building can be built where, how tall the building can be, how much square footage it can have, and other requirements for the general context of a building. This building that you see here, this is a rendering for Block 216. It's a proposed tower in downtown Portland that would become Portland's fifth tallest building. And this is built right to the height limit in the zoning code. So the zoning code says in downtown Portland at this particular location, you can build a 460 foot tall tower, and you can have condos in a hotel, an office space, retail space, parking, all of those uses are allowed in that building. But you wouldn't be allowed to take this building and build it up in the West Hills there, which is zoned as a residential area with a much shorter height limit of about 30 feet. And so this project also is a really interesting precedent for looking at some of the cases where you can take the zoning code as a prescriptive requirement, but unlike the building code, there's a little bit more flexibility in adjusting that. And so this project has some interesting examples with how you can maybe work around the building code or the zoning code when you can show that your project is actually better meeting the intent. And I'll get into that a little more later. The WordPress equivalent of the zoning code I see as the WordPress philosophy. If you haven't read the WordPress philosophy, I highly encourage you to do so. I'm not gonna read through all of it today, but there are a lot of really important points here. And historically, many people may have seen the WordPress philosophy as really being about WordPress itself. And while that's the case, I think it also is a really good philosophy to have with any projects that we're building with or on top of WordPress. The WordPress philosophy, again, there's a lot of words. I kind of simplify it down to just a few. In terms of your project's implementation, you wanna be focused, simplified, generalized, and automated. Really seeking for the most simple approach to any problem, focusing on those goals. Also being generic, so for example, if you're creating some functionality for a client, think about is this something that if I go to slightly more effort, I could actually turn into a plugin that I can reuse for other clients or maybe even publish on wordpress.org and other people can use it as well. And then also automating things wherever possible. So if you're creating a theme or a plugin, creating an interface, automating those tasks that could be repetitive so that users have the most streamlined experience possible. There are also a few process-oriented points in the WordPress philosophy. And I like to summarize those as being as iterative as possible, which I'll get into a little more later. And then also being attentive and open. Open to the license of WordPress, the GPL and the four freedoms that it presents. And then also really paying attention to your end users. There's a rule called the Vocal Minority that says that only 1% of the people actually using your product will ever contact you about it or you'll only ever hear from 1% of your users. And so keeping that in mind and really seeking out feedback from a broader base of users is important. My third point is design review. And in Portland Zoning Code, we actually have areas in Portland that are required for major projects to go in front of an appointed design commission that reviews projects with the architects before they can actually move to the process of that legal building code review. And this ensures that we have a coherent city where our buildings work together and provide the best experience possible for pedestrians. This particular project is at the corner of Burnside and MLK in the central east side industrial district here in Portland. And these are the first two designs that were presented to the design commission. That initial design on the left, there were some concerns that the top and the base of the building didn't really relate to each other and that the overall massing and shape of the building could be perceived as a really large imposing block as opposed to something more refined like a lot of our buildings are here in Portland. Ultimately, the design team came to this project here or to this iteration of the design that you can see with a little more context here. This is actually located right across the Burnside bridge from the somewhat controversial yard building, which you can see up there. And so it was really important at this prominent site for this building to respond to, yes, we've got this very innovative architecture happening right here. And how do we take that and respond to it with the next generation of a building at this site? And even though the architecture team was considering that throughout their process, having that third party design review process as part of their work really allowed the design to evolve to something that is gonna better fit our city. And this project is currently under construction. This was a couple of weeks ago. If you drive over the Burnside bridge frequently, you're gonna start to see this popping up above grade in the next couple of weeks. An example of design review and peer feedback in WordPress is this feature that I worked on for WordPress Core. This is the theme installer that's in the customizer and this is the original version of the proposal that we proposed for WordPress 4.7 back in 2016. This proposal met all of the prescriptive requirements in terms of code quality, user testing, and design feedback that we have for implementing new features in WordPress Core. But there was still feedback that the experience wasn't quite ready and so through that peer feedback process, we spent another year iterating on the design and ultimately came to this version of the feature which shipped in WordPress 4.9. We simplified the interface as much as possible with some based on some of the goals of WordPress in the WordPress philosophy and came to this relatively streamlined experience that allows you to search for themes on WordPress.org from within the customizer and once you find a theme that you wanna try, in one click, you can download, install, and preview this theme on your site with your content to get from selecting a theme to live previewing it in a much more simplified experience. My fourth key is thinking about modular construction and in WordPress content structure. With buildings, it's important to modularize as much as possible, fabricating big pieces of our building away from the project site so that we can put a building together much more quickly. This particular project was located down in Los Angeles and they had six brand new buildings, over a million square feet and it's a university project and it had to be brick cladding with precast detailing on it. There actually wasn't enough labor in Los Angeles at the time available to handset all of the bricks one by one at the project site and that would have added about a year to the project schedule as a result. And so the team came up with a solution to cast the brick into these panels offsite that could then be brought into place and erected with large pieces with cranes like you see here which drastically increased the speed with which the building was able to be put together. In WordPress, we have a number of different ways that we can think about content structure and really modularizing what we're doing. I think the best example in WordPress is with custom post types. This particular site is my sheet music library and originally I had just a page in WordPress with a bunch of links to PDFs of sheet music on it. That quickly became difficult to manage and I went to a custom database table which was definitely a mistake. Ended up not publishing any content for a couple of years as a result and then finally was able to go through the process of creating a custom post type that was specifically tailored to sheet music that allows you to upload a PDF, upload audio files and also use custom taxonomies to relate different pieces of content. So you can now as a visitor on this site click on a link and see all of the music for four cellos and that's automatically created by WordPress whenever you associate a piece with that taxonomy for orchestration. You can then create these dynamic views with relatively little effort. Because it's set up with the custom post type there's also a good separation between the actual content and the way it's being presented. So it would be relatively easy to switch out the theme and it's actually built as a plugin that's available on wordpress.org that's designed to be compatible with as many themes as possible so that your content is modular and relatively portable. My last three keys are a little bit broader in terms of thinking about how we approach projects and the first one is to retrofit or iterate. I mentioned earlier Washington County is working on a lot of their public buildings and going through seismic retrofit projects. This is another one that I was involved in and this is actually a building that's less than 20 years old. And as a result, unfortunately it has that one problem. It is not seismically up to the standards that they need for being able to immediately occupy that building after an earthquake and it's an important building because it contains the sheriff's office and a number of other functions. And so even though the rest of the building all the interiors were fine all of the mechanical systems were fine because it's a relatively new building. Didn't need any work they needed to do this seismic retrofit. And so the team came up with this solution to really address that one issue and focus the upgrades on that one issue. We added these exterior cross-braced frames to the building with the intent of making it look like they had always been there. And by doing that we were able to keep most of the construction on the exterior of the building and minimize the overall cost and schedule impacts of actually conducting the upgrade. The project was completed in less than a year and well under budget which is relatively uncommon for a building project. A WordPress example I have is the 14 colors plugin which goes with the 2014 theme. This plugin and the theme were built a while ago but in WordPress 4.5 there were some improvements to the Customizer API that make it easier to instantly live preview changes. And you can see that in action here with another theme. And so that plugin which at this point was relatively, I didn't really need a lot of updates, it's theme specific but I was able to implement this much faster and better user experience for actually as you move your mouse around that color picker you instantly see the change of those colors live on your site, a preview of your site, not public. And really no UI change in this update but it changed how quickly you can see those previews. And so finding those little improvements that you can make on your projects to improve the experience without getting into a whole lot of other issues where you might then expand your scope is really a good way to iterate on projects and allow them to evolve over time. There will be times where you need to make bigger changes to a project and in those cases I look to something that's often called adaptive reuse. This is a building, another building in Portland Central East Side Industrial District built about 100 years ago as a foundry. It's also been used as a warehouse building and it's really been just mostly bordered up for the last 40 years or so. In the past year, EcoTrust has worked to completely transform this building into a new event center. And in transforming the building as opposed to just tearing it down and starting from scratch, we're able to preserve some of the history. We still have these cool old roof trusses. The big green thing is an old mechanical press that's in the space. And there's also some old gantry crane beams in there. So we can keep some history and some character to something that's been a part of the neighborhood for 100 years while also creating an entirely new use for that space. And we would lose a lot of that history and that character if we were to just tear the whole building down and start from scratch. Even though in this case, we basically had to tear out all of the walls and rebuild most of the building kind of from the inside out. An example of adaptive reuse in WordPress is this site that I worked on a couple of years ago. It is actually representing a physical space that offers workshops and has a help desk for students at USC. And they wanted to have tutorials and some news posts on their website, but initially it wasn't very clearly defined. And so they set it up with the 2014 theme with some customizations and they were just showing custom posts or latest posts on the front page. In the iteration, we looked to completely re-imagine what the site actually looked like with a new custom theme, some custom plugins. But also trying to keep the content that was there as much as possible. So we kept all of the existing posts but we split it into two different post types. One focusing on posts for news and one tutorial post type for all the tutorials. We kept the existing events calendar that was working pretty well. And we also kept the existing user profiles that WordPress has out of the box and extended that to create these public staff profile pages where you could view that on the site. We also added a course registration system and then we introduced some shared taxonomies to relate tutorials, courses and staff members together. And this gets a little bit back to modular content. This allows you to automatically get views like this out of WordPress where we have this tool taxonomy. And in this case, the tool is Adobe Illustrator. And you can see on the taxonomy archive page which WordPress generates automatically all of the different staff members that are experts in this so that if someone were to go into the space and want to talk to an expert, they know who they can talk to. We also show all of the different tutorials available on the site as well as courses. And so with those different pieces of content that are kind of modularly set up, we're able to tie a lot of different things together into a really unique presentation that's also separated from the actual content structure. My final point today is about balancing disruptive innovation. And with buildings, one of the really interesting movements that's happening right now is with mass timber as a building material. This is a proposal for an 11-story all-wood construction building in Portland's Pearl District called Framework. And through several years of research and testing partnering with a number of different universities, the design team was able to show that using wood, this building is able to meet or even exceed the fire and seismic safety requirements that we have with any other more traditional building material like steel or concrete. And at the same time, wood is inherently much more sustainable than a material like concrete because it actually sequesters carbon rather than emitting it when you use it in your buildings. Unfortunately, with something that's somewhat disruptive as an innovation, there tends to be compromise. And in this case, the compromise was cost because it's a more innovative material. It was a little bit more expensive. This project would have created affordable housing, but there was some concern about that higher cost per square foot to build it. And so as a result, it's currently looking like this building won't get built, but it has done a lot of the research and paved the way for new code allowances to create taller buildings out of wood. And we're starting to see a lot more interest in new buildings built out of mass timber here in Portland. In WordPress, we're currently undergoing a very disruptive innovation. If you haven't heard about the Gutenberg project, now would be a good time to start learning about it. It's currently scheduled to ship with WordPress 5.0 in about two weeks. This is also a disruptive innovation. And I would say it also does have some compromises that it's making. Right now, it's looking like those compromises are largely gonna be related to accessibility of the actual editor. And also, in a lot of ways backwards compatibility, it's gonna be a little bit harder to transition a lot of older projects into this new experience than with a lot of other features that we've had introduced to WordPress recently. And so with all of our projects, I really think these seven keys are important to think about when we're seeking longevity. Looking at the building codes of the web, following standards wherever possible to try to set ourselves up for as standards and technologies evolve, continuing to really meet the intent of those standards and allow our content to also evolve. Considering the WordPress philosophy, really seeking out design and code review and trying to make that a part of our processes. Being modular with our construction, using custom post types, I mentioned Gutenberg. Gutenberg is block based, which is actually in theory a really nice way to modularize how you're creating your content. That being said, the implementation of blocks right now, most blocks actually aren't really any more modular than the way content's currently stored. And the exception is with reusable blocks. So I encourage you to look into reusable blocks as well as custom post types, even with Gutenberg as ways to modularize your content. And then when we're looking at projects, really looking to retrofit and iterate as much as possible, seeking out those specific points that where your project could improve and targeting fixes on those items. When you need to make larger changes, adaptively reusing your product, whatever you can. So keeping those important elements of a project and reimagining everything else that could be improved. And then when we have disruptive innovation, really balancing it, thinking as a community, and then also for individual projects, how we navigate those changes to help our projects evolve into the future. And with that, I'd like to take any questions. In terms of retrofitting projects, alongside Gutenberg, I also find myself very often addressing accessibility concerns retroactively in different themes or plugins. Would you like to say a little bit about that process? Sure, in terms of how you can retrofit accessibility into something that's already there. Yeah, it's hard. And I think that's where when we create a project, if we think about accessibility from the beginning, it's much easier to actually make that a part of our project and then continue to maintain it moving forward. Whereas if you're approaching a project that's already out there and has been out there for a while and maybe there's a lot of content in it already, that's gonna be a little bit harder to actually add accessibility back into. And so that's where that project that might just be a small iteration, oh, we're gonna add this one feature while accessibility is a lot more than just adding one feature. And so that's where it's more of an, you're adaptively reusing, you're basically potentially gonna have to reconstruct a lot of what's there if it wasn't addressed from the beginning. And so I think that's where it's important when you're approaching new projects to really make sure you're thinking about important things like accessibility from the beginning. And then when you gotta go back and retrofit it in, it's what you gotta do. Any more questions? Thanks for the awesome talk, Nicolo Ditt. So as an Oregonian, I'm terrified of the big one, every day in fear. Could you speak a little bit more about seismic retrofit and are, you know, are the projects that you take on for seismic retrofit, you know, keep the building up? Or do you think the building will actually like stay operable or show the knowledge on the current thing, seismic retrofit? For a particular building or just in general? Just generally. In general? Yeah, so I think a couple of things we can talk about. So this is a proposed new building, relatively tall new building in Portland. And so obviously we're designing it to the best of our knowledge to withstand the very large earthquake. But there's always a trade-off between the cost of earthquake resiliency in terms of your construction cost and then what you get out of it. And so for new buildings, we still in a lot of cases aren't necessarily designing this building to, okay, after the earthquake, you can immediately move back into it and continue using it. The performance objectives and then how it calibrates to specific earthquake magnitudes are somewhat complicated. But I'll basically just say that for a lot of new buildings that are going up even now, there may not be a guarantee that after an earthquake it's gonna be economical to repair the building. It may make sense for a lot of buildings, even new buildings now, to actually tear it down and start over from scratch after the earthquake. So that's something we have to kind of keep in mind is there's a high cost to really good seismic performance. But there were a couple of projects that I talked about. This was one of them where Washington County with these public buildings is really focusing on that as one of the primary drivers of a project is, we really need our buildings to be able to operate following an earthquake. And so they're really putting in that extra cost to say, okay, we're gonna take it a step further. Yes, we meet all of the requirements of the code, which are that a building may be safe, but may not actually be able to continue operating. And they're saying that they want that building to remain functional following an earthquake. Yes, so this particular building is out in Hillsborough. You can kind of see there back behind is the jail. And then this is the sheriff's office and courtrooms and some other functions in this part here. So it's important for buildings like this to remain standing following an earthquake. Just to kind of tie that back into WordPress. Say you have a catastrophic event with your site. Yeah. How does that, is there pre-planning you can do in that case so that you can reduce or consider just completely destroying and starting all over again? It's a great question. I think it depends somewhat on what the event is and how the site's set up. I think a lot of the things I've talked about, so if your site is set up relatively modularly and it's like, okay, something went drastically wrong with our events calendar plugin and we've lost a lot of this stuff, but oh really it's that catastrophic event is isolated to that one part of the site and maybe that's a big part of your site with events, but if you can turn that off and then focus on fixing that part and the rest is still working just fine, that's somewhere where if you've set it up where it's a little bit more modular, you're able to isolate potential issues. If it's a problem with a theme that has gone horribly wrong, which I'm sure many of us have seen, that may be a little harder if you got kind of locked into a theme that wasn't being good about how it was storing the content. And then I would just say, once you go through that process of fixing the problem, really try to set it up so that moving forward, the site won't be locked into a given theme and you'll be able to sort of fix it once as opposed to just going through that process again in another couple of years. I have a question about Gutenberg. Using the earthquake analogy, how big of a disruption is that going to be? Is that going to be a little one? Is that going to be a 10.0? What are we looking at? Yeah, I think there's a few different levels. So there's sort of the community level of it. There's the WordPress core and backwards compatibility level and then there's also the level of sites that you maybe created for clients or your own sites. It really depends. In a lot of cases, it's the type of thing that it's intended to be that you can just turn it on and then start creating new content and it'll continue working with your theme. Hopefully your theme has added support for some of the new features. And as a user, it'll just keep working seamlessly. If you're more of a plug-in or theme developer or built a lot of custom functionality into a site, people who are using that site may not actually be able to do that depending on how you built that functionality because your functionality won't necessarily port over. I think the biggest disruption that's going to hit really the vast majority of sites is that the editor styles that we have right now are not backwards compatible with Gutenberg. So you have to create a new editor style sheet. And so if you had previously been able to actually see within the editor, okay, this is the font that's on the front end and it's the same colors and everything's matching, which a lot of people managing content like to see because then when you're aligning your images, you can kinda see how lines break and things like that. That type of experience is immediately gonna be gone unless you go back and add the new editor style format into your theme. So there's sort of, the more minor it's kind of a bummer, but it still works type of a break and then there's sort of the bigger scale. If you've got this plug-in that adds a meta box that no longer works and that's critical to your site, then you either can't upgrade or you have to come up with, you gotta get someone to actually go through the process of updating all that code to the new system. That's, so that's a great question and this, yes. So the, it is a project that's been in development for a couple of years now. That being said, it was announced about a month ago that it was targeting shipping with WordPress 5.0 November 19th of this year. So I think that's kind of, that's a decision that was kind of made at the top of the project and everyone else is kind of reacting to it. That being said, a lot of different people who have tested Gutenberg are starting to find certain things, the accessibility team in particular has been able to quickly point out, you know, there's been a lot of good work on accessibility in Gutenberg, it'll help you create more accessible content with WordPress, but the experience of actually using the editor with Gutenberg is much harder if you're using a keyboard or a screen reader and you don't have a mouse, you can't use a touchscreen. So two weeks away is basically where we're at, but I think it's important as a community, if we see major red flags to raise those red flags and see what we can do to try to improve the way that process works. Okay, I'm using Gutenberg on some websites already that I'm building, but isn't there a plugin to stop it on? Yes, let's hear about that. Yeah, so there's a plugin called the classic editor plugin which basically just keeps the current editor screen. The other thing that I would note is for custom post types, unless you're specifically declaring that they support, that they should be shown in the REST API, it'll default back to the old editor for now. So a lot of custom functionality that may have been built that way may not automatically just make that switch when you update to WordPress 5.0. So definitely it's important to keep WordPress up to date. You do need to update to 5.0, but if you're not ready to use Gutenberg yet, there is the classic editor plugin. And I think on client sites, if it's something that's not actively being maintained by anyone, that's definitely a good route to look at, yeah. So I know you did a lot of work with the customizer previously and then kind of stepped away from WordPress a little bit. I'm not interested in sort of the reasons and that's personal to you, but, and now you're back here at WordCamp presenting, which is thank you for that, but can you talk about sort of, I've been in the WordPress space for many years and haven't taken that step back. Did it, you know, was that like mentally refreshing, clear for like, did it give you different perspective? What were kind of some of the pros and cons of just stepping away for a bit? Yeah, yeah, so it's interesting. I was very heavily involved in contributing to WordPress itself for a few years there and then kind of stepped back a little bit when I started working full-time in a completely different industry, but I have continued working with WordPress. I have a bunch of plugins and themes and I regularly work with WordPress on my own sites. So I think it's important to get some perspective. For me, it also kind of coincided with a shift in the way the project was being managed and led. It was kind of when that Gutenberg project was getting started and the way that that was approached maybe didn't quite align with the way that I felt my contributions would be as valuable and so I think it's important to always look at, you know, trying to be involved in whatever way works for you at a given time. So if you think, you know, hey, I'm gonna help organize a word camp volunteer, that's something that I'm really interested in and passionate about. I encourage you to do that. If you really, you know, if you're scared by Gutenberg but think it's really cool or wanna learn more, I definitely encourage you to dive into it and be vocal online about, and not just on Twitter but in the official channels talking about, hey, this is what we have, it could be really great, here's what I think we should do to make it better or hey, I found this bug. Reporting issues like that is just as valuable as actually working on code for CORE. So if you've maybe thought about getting involved in CORE but haven't, I definitely encourage trying it because it's something that as a community we need to keep WordPress moving forward. Thank you.