 really put my two weeks in and left Nike. And I was telling people what I was doing on an as-need-to-know basis, because I really didn't have to figure it out. Well, after all that stuff is done, what's the value of all your rest they're gonna be? Probably about three million. Everybody, it was just popped up in a photo with Barack Obama. Like, everybody's likely to get somewhere. That's just the reality of it. And if that makes somebody feel some time away, well, you too. And I was like, wow. Black people work at Nike. This is crazy. Yeah. So what's up? What are we talking about today, man? Man. I feel like this is like a big deal. Why do I always, why do I always everybody's podcast? Started? Yeah. I was the first person on another one of the homies podcast. How do I do this? I gotta figure it out. I don't know. How's it look? Is it good? Yeah. Oh, can you see? Yeah, man. What's up, man? I'm in the house. I'm looking here. I'm looking at me, man. I'm looking at shit. I'm worried about you, dawg. You were the root of everybody's podcast. Not really. I just thought about, I was on two podcasts for the first time. Okay. So I'm laughing. For the first time. Yeah. Nice. Okay. They actually got way cooler as time went along. And then we'll bring you back. Yeah. You know how it goes. I never got brought back to their podcast. Oh, but you know I'm bringing you back. I'm back. We shot one before, and then it was a fail on your end. Yeah. So he didn't approve the first podcast. But he's dropped it anyways. But we're back. No, he didn't. Oh, you didn't? No, I never did. That's why I saw it. No, I didn't drop it. So now we're back and you got a book out. Yes, dad. You doing more things. Always. You got stuff with the business. It's living better. And it's perfect because I like on this channel, we're doing this on a main channel, DNA show. Okay. We're legit. I like that. We're legit. We're the DNA show now, about time. So we got big eyes over here. But I want to talk about Nike stuff. I want to talk about sneaker stuff too, because this is a sneaker channel. Okay. But because you know, you got some history. I do. We're to Nike and football. And I think that kind of affects how you wrote your book too. It does. So I'm going to let you introduce yourself, how you would like to. And then we're just going to start rapping, because I know we got a lot to talk about. We got a lot to talk about. We got time, man. My name is Henry Oregon. I'm the founder and CEO of Disruptive Sports Agency. We represent NFL athletes, NFL coaches, basketball coaches, strength coaches, and NBA players. I also subsequently wrote a book called The Informational Interview. How to match the information interview that has another long abbreviation that we finalized. The book was inspired by my journey into Nike and how I got my first job there. And then how I continue to propel that information and the informational interview to connecting with other people along my journey and my different careers that I've had. Okay, dope. And the different things that I've done. So I know we're going to touch on the book throughout, but I'm interested to see the start before Nike. What made you even want to be at Nike? Because I know for me, I live here. I'm in Portland, Oregon, you know? But for you, what made you want to be a part of Nike? That's a great question. I think that it goes back to when I was like 10. And my uncle gave us a fake, me and my cousins, a fake $10,000. And we were supposed to invest in stocks. We were supposed to buy whatever stocks were with $10,000, hear the prices. And I was the person out of my cousins that I wasn't the smartest book smart guy, right? They all went to like Stanford, Harvard, Princeton. Cause you're in a bay. Yeah, and I went to Portland State. So they're all super like mad geniuses. And I picked, I would invest in Nike water. And I think the third one was Berkshire Hathaway just because in our family, my uncle, my grandfather actually saved one above his life. So those are three stocks I picked. Oh, and I picked Apple. And so I won by like a long shot by the time we were adults and looking at what those stocks were and what those values were on those stocks. So my love for Nike just kind of stemmed from there. I was, I would never say I was a humongous sneakerhead. I think I was for a hot second, maybe two years. I was getting every pair of J's that came out right after the Air Force ones dropped. Like that was like my thing. And then I stopped getting all the shoes. And I was like, yeah, I'm not feeling this right now. I'm tired of waiting in line. It's a lot of work when it comes to collecting shoes for sure. And then when I went, while I was picking schools to go to college, my buddy, Mario Brown, who went to Eastern Washington, he first got his first offer from Portland State. And he went to Portland State. And so long story short, short, short, long. He introduced me to the coaching staff and I walked on to Portland State. And I wanted to go to Portland State or Oregon because I knew that that's where Nike was. Never been Nike headquarters campus, didn't know the story, didn't really know nothing about it. So you had never even been to like Portland or Oregon before? Nike was there and I was like, I'm gonna work there. And then our first time at, my first time at Nike campus was at Portland State. We had practiced there on the Bo Jackson field. And I was like, wow, black people work at Nike. This is crazy. Like, wow, this is tight. This is like an extension of college. I want, I'm gonna work here. I was never a guy that was, I want to. This is what I'm going to do. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it. That's funny. I'll talk about that too. Like, we don't talk about goals, we talk about outcomes. How are we gonna get the outcome that we want? It's not a goal. What are we gonna do to get to what we want? And oftentimes that can be misguided as cocky or arrogant, but fuck it. Everybody's like that they get somewhere. That's just the reality of it. And if that makes somebody feel something that way, we'll fuck you too. Right. No, I feel that. And then you put it in your room, you and me, we vibe together because we all have that same vibe. Like, we got to get to where we need to be. Yeah. And we're trying to figure it out. It's not trying to be little others. It's just like, this is my mindset. And like-minded individuals somehow come into your life. Right, right. For sure. No, it makes sense. Definitely. So you're young. This is your 18 years old at the time. You're going to Nike campus freshman year. No, it's junior years. I was like, it's 2020. Oh, okay. So you're a little bit older. Yeah. But we're hitting, you know, it's a live practice. Like, all the Nike execs that are in football are there. And we get to talk to them afterwards. And I was like, wow, this is crazy. So I was also a cleat tester. So I was trying out cleats and wearing them and giving feedback. So some like the vapor ones, I was trying those out like years before they came out. Right. That's what we used to do at my high school out here. So that's, yeah, I heard those days. I felt super special. No, for real. I got the all black cleats like, no, you can't. Take your pictures of these. It's like, it's not that serious. Nobody's going to know what they are anyway. So I think that that was really dope. And then when I stopped playing football, the guy that gave us the cleats to test, it was named Dan Frass. And he was a Portland State alumni. He was actually a kicker. He wasn't even like nothing crazy cool, but he was super swaggy and super dope. And so I asked to meet with him when I finished playing. He's like, yeah, no problem. Shoot me an email. And I was like, what does that even mean? Shoot me an email. So of course, like most kids do still now, I sent like a novel, literally five pages. He's like, he responded back, didn't read none of that. When do you want to meet? I was like, you got time this week? And he's like, okay, cool. This is where we meet. He knew I didn't know what I was talking about. And so he coached me up, he kind of gave me up like how to like conduct yourself, how to talk to people. And then he connected me with somebody else. He connected us luckily with somebody that looked like me, whose name was Katie. And then Katie connected me with Ian Williams. And Ian Williams is now like famous on the Nike sneaker app. I don't even know what he does. I just see his face on the sneaker app. I'm like, wow, okay, you're famous now. Connections, yeah. Ian Williams is like kind of like the godfather out here in Portland. I feel like of like the underground sneaker culture. And he worked at Nike as well. Yeah, he worked at Nike as well. And his story is in the book. And Ian taught me what an informational interview was, how to conduct it. He taught me a lot of like my ticks and tricks. And then I added onto that. And so Ian always calls me informational head. I wrote a book about it. That's funny. Okay, so you go to Nike and now you're like, I'm interviewing these people. I'm interested in this stuff. Now, how do you get the job? Man, tough. Well, first you have to figure out like, what do you want to do? You can't just say, I want to work at Nike. Everybody says that. There's a thousand different jobs at Nike. So many. Sales, marketing, product creation, engineering, human resources, social media, brand marketing, sports marketing. Like, so I'm learning about all this stuff and I'm figuring out what I don't want to do. I did not want to do merchandise. I did not want it because they worked really hard. I did not want to work anymore at Nike retail because that was one of my first jobs out of college. I worked Nike retail along with like five other jobs just to get my foot in the door and learn about the brand. But did you leverage your work at retail for getting your job? Oh my God, did I? Okay. So that got me the black badge. A lot of people wonder about that. Go ahead. So I got lucky enough. At first I was failing and failing and failing and applying to Nike Portland, Nike MLK. Even though I knew those guys, they didn't hire me. Really? They didn't hire me. None of them. They actually shitted on me. During the resume and the trash, I came and they're like, I can work here. Have a resume. They're like, yeah. Do it like, do it out. It's so interesting. I mean, I'm not trying to again, talk down or anything, but it's so interesting how people that work at the outlets and at the retail spots, they hold it even higher, like gatekeeping standard to the stuff. I think it's crazy. It's more crazy how it comes full circle because then when you get to where they want to be at, then they want to kiss your ass, you know? And so me, I'm not like that. I don't hold grudges, but there's only so far I'm going to help you. You know what I mean? That's just the reality of it. Because of how you treated me in the beginning. Now I've surpassed you in a sense, right? Just status level or job or whatever it is. Great. And then they want to come and, you know, how did you get there? Can you help? Like, not can you help me help me, you know? Like, it should be crazy, but talking about that in the book too, but definitely getting the black badge and working Nike retail, it taught me the products, it taught me the brand and it gave me access to Nike's gyms and intramurals. Yes. And that's what the real networking goes on. Like organic, not like fake. Like we're just, I just happened to get on the best football flag football team, you know what I mean? And those were a lot of like the good executives, the work to Nike football, the work on that team, on that team. And I was around long enough and the one guy's name was Andy Miguel. He's in the book too. He was all my team for two and a half years. Okay. And he's like, yeah, shoot me an email. He didn't respond ever. Like he responded like maybe twice, right? And then when I graduated college, finally, right? He sends me an email like literally on graduate. He responds finally, I never gave up. I emailed him every single week. Okay. And then as time went on, I'd see him and you know, I'd make it play. So I thought on the flag team or like whatever was just cool or had good conversations with people, I would hit him up twice a week, three times, four times a week. And I know he'd see me because I hit him at all different hours of the day. Sometimes I'd, you know, before it was a, I was so crazy. Before you could program when to send an email. I would wake up at five a.m. to send the email and then go back to bed. Hey, I'm up. What's up? And he'd be like, really, I'm back to sleep. Like if you replied, you might not catch me for a couple hours. Facts. But he hits me up the day, like the week after my graduation at like five a.m., four a.m., something like crazy hour. And I was, I was partying. He's like, yo. Today's partner is ShopDNAshow.com. Are you tired of wearing low quality gear? I completely understand. I made a personal mission to go out and find higher quality stuff and give it to you guys at an affordable price. And not only because of that, I have to wear this stuff every day. And I don't wanna be wearing cheap clothing all the time. So I wanna make sure that you guys know about it and our understanding that we have a lot of cool stuff coming out as well. Hit the link down below or pinned or wherever it may be. It's gonna be ShopDNAshow.com. There's new drops every single month. I'm excited to see you guys in the gear. And now let's go ahead and get back to the podcast. Come in, I want you to interview for this position or whatever it was. So after my hundred information interviews, I was prepared, right? I had had my resume done. It was creative. I had different pitches. I had different examples of the grind and the grit. And his only question was, hey, Henry, I know you've been emailing forever. You've been persisting your emails. Subject line said persistency. Where's your shot? Why should I hire you to be the Nike football brand marketing coordinator or specialist, whatever the job was. It was Nike football. I think it was coordinator. And I was like, he's like, tell me about a time in your life when you fails and why you're still here. And I forget the story that I told him, but it was basically like just literally, did I ever give up on emailing you? That's how I treat everybody. So if you hire me, that's the level of what you're gonna get. And that's what he needed. He needed somebody that was a hound dog or somebody that just was like gonna keep sicking at projects because a lot of the stuff we do in marketing is like, so many different parts have to come together. You gotta get product that isn't out yet. You gotta connect with the photo shoot team. You gotta talk to retail about what they're actually releasing and where they're releasing it. And you had to stay on people to get their jobs done so you could get your job done. And that's what he needed at the time. So answering the question that I did got me the job. And then I got the job. And then not only when I got the job, I had to figure out how to get my own computer and get my own self signed up for the job. Like, figure out how to contact HR, figure out how to get yourself a computer, figure out how to get yourself paid. I was like, this is crazy. Like it was like nothing I'd ever experienced, but it taught me how to be self-sufficient and to figure it out. Right, right. I like that. Okay. So like I said, we wanna talk about Nike and sneaker. Cause especially I heard you say black badge. Yes. So tell the people what the black badge is cause a lot of people don't even know what a black badge is. Honestly, I don't know what a black badge means anymore. I just know that it's a full time employee. It's a full time employee and you are a Nike employee. A lot of people that work at Nike are ETWs, they're contracted workers. Even at retail and outlets and also. Even at retail outlets and headquarters. So they're part-time workers. They don't have Nike benefits. They don't have a Nike Swoosh account, the Elite account. They don't have those things that make you elite, right? That allow you to get the supreme discounts. They don't have the access to the training facilities at Nike campus or the restaurants. They can't just go up there. But when you have a black badge, you can't cause you're an employee. And there's, yeah. So that's what people don't understand. There's literally levels in Nike. Not only like CEO and all that stuff, but like there's a lot of different those brackets. Yeah. They have like, you know, they have what's called the band levels. I forget what they are, but there's like L band, which is like entry level, A band or something like that. And you go through the band levels and that's basically dictates what your pay is. Right. And so you can know what type of level somebody's on based on their band level as well. Once you get the black badge, there's another level too. Yeah. That's where we got more opportunities out of that. So, okay. So you're at Nike now, you're established and you're like, I can go bigger. I'm at Nike now. And when I first got there, it's literally like the matrix. Like there's so much different stuff going on. You don't know who controls what. Then you figure out who the architects are of the whole thing. Like who's really calling the shots. Right. And then there's still elements of like things you just don't know. Like, how does this product get from here to there? Where is it house? Right. You don't know. And for me, when I was there, I was in charge of kicking out product for our brand activations. So I had to learn the system in SAP, I think it was how to ship our product. And it's all just coats. Right. So like, I know that I think white is one, zero, zero. Like the color wave in a shoe. It goes like, Oh yeah. Yeah. And so like, I'm a varied number oriented guy. I started to read numbers and I could see where stuff was going and what the product was without actually, I could see the picture in my head by seeing the numbers. Right. Anyways, I just think that's an interesting thing as far as there's so much stuff. It literally is the matrix. So when I was at Nike, okay, we get there, I get to the specialist level and I'll keep it PG. I won't tell the real. All right. Cause this is a podcast. Oh baby, I like it wrong. This is not, I can't get it T-Rock. Just can't, you know? Just, you just keep it all PG. But I'll put it like this. I knew that as a black man, the level I was at, there was only two more steps I could go up. Right. And I'd be stopped at that level. And so me, I don't want anything that has a ceiling. I like to be elements or making money. There's no ceiling of what I can make. Right. So I knew it was time to go. And so just like I did, I didn't tell the story earlier, but just like I did when I was at Nike retail, I gave myself one year. And I literally had my two weeks notice written in my email to send out. Too easy for one year at my one year anniversary at Nike retail. I sent it and luckily I got a job the week after I sent it on campus. So just like that, I gave myself one year in this position. And if I wasn't, I think it was one and a half. One and a half years in this position. Is that one to extend it, right? Cause now I'm on campus again one more time. If I can't get another higher, I'm out of here. Cause I know I'll get stuck here at this level. I like that. I like that. I'm kind of on that same thing with different stuff. 18 to 24 months. It's like, all right, if you ain't getting it by this point and seeing no progress and girls like, You gotta cut it. Say you did it. You know, glad you learned from it, but you got to cut it. You can't just keep holding on to it. So just like this podcast, who knows? We'll see 18 months from now. What happens? I mean, this podcast is gonna be crazy. We're gonna have it going up. With another plaque, okay? But hopefully by the grace of God, I'm gonna get a very small royalty check for being the first on the DNA podcast. Hey, he pushed me on this, man. He's like, I'm coming to town tomorrow. We got to shoot that video. I said, I don't got no gear. I was like, I'm going to the store right now. I'm gonna ruin everything I need. Mind you, I thought he had everything. I didn't know you needed to have everything. Bro, that's because I just, I'm a busy girl at this stuff. I'm a busy girl at this stuff. So, okay. Well, how about the story for a second? How is everything going in life right now? Like mentally, physically, everything like, I want to talk about those type of things too. We have those conversations on the phone sometimes. Let's talk about it raw, okay? Like he said, man, you know, I think that showing the real authentic stuff of what's going on, people see the glitz and the glamour, right? My dad just had a stroke. He's in a rehab facility and you know, going there and seeing them twice, three times a week and spending, it's a time of the, it's draining. And running a business, right? And then having other businesses is draining. Dropping a book, it can be very draining, but I'm a dog. So I make that shit happen. You know, that's it, that's it, that's it. It's always gotta go with that. You know what I mean? So I don't know, I mean, I feel like every time you go through a lot of stuff like this, you only come out stronger. You come out more appreciative. You come out more patient. And you just get better. Or you, or you crash and burn and you go crazy. So I'm not crazy yet. It's gonna take more than that life to kick my ass down. Well, how are you kind of, I guess, navigating, you know, I don't know how you want to say coping with it or whatever you like to say, but just keeping yourself sane at the same time. Cause I think a lot of people don't have that answer or they don't ask that question. Like for me, I've switched my daily routine over the past couple of months and different things I've been integrating into how I look at stuff. It's made me much more sharper. Like I had to schedule out things even more effective. I had to schedule out my free time now. Yeah. You know, usually I would just schedule out my work days, which is like, you know, five to six days a week, right? But now I schedule out even like my quote unquote day off. Now, okay, I'm going to do these things for myself and then these things for my family. So that way I'm still happy. Yeah. No, that's important though for real. I think for me it's kind of partially like that too, especially like with being married and everything and like having that element. It's like now you're with somebody, navigating all the stuff, plus doing my stuff and then her stuff is blowing up right now too. So we're trying to like navigate our own thing plus spend time together and enjoy it. Like it's a lot, but at the same time we're like, okay, we're going to chill these days and then we're going to have, even when we're traveling, we're like, okay, even though we're going traveling and I'm busy for sneaker cars, she's coming with me. I'm like, we got X amount of hours, whether it's us going shopping and kicking it or going out to movies. I think is when he came to the Bay Area and they were arguing about what they were going to do for the anniversary and DJs put a football game in it. I know she doesn't want to go to a football game. He's like, look, so, well, you don't have a, you don't know what we're going to do. So this is what we're going to do. I was like, we could go to a football game. It's funny because, but same thing, like, okay, how can I align that for us to be happy with it? So I was like, all right, we'll go to the football game, but our homies are out there and her friends are out there too, that she can't hang out. We don't have frame time with people that she doesn't see as often. So just like we're in the Bay. We got to see her friend and we got to have time. So I think, again, just find a way to balance things and make sure that not only I'm the one that's happy, but everybody else is happy too. For sure. I think everything is this on, that everything is negotiation. And both of them are great negotiators against each other. And they know how to get the other to bend, you know? And it's like, it's great to see, you know, in a married couple, it's my age, you know, not just like old people. We'll be trying to talk it out and get through everything as much as possible. Oh, you guys do. I just mean we're like, it was hella funny. Okay, so off of that. Anyways, back to the story. So you're now, you see that you're ready to go. It's time to go. And you were doing something else. You were already running a business at the same time. Or did you start the business after? Yeah, weren't you doing like the modeling thing? Yeah, yeah. So I had started the model agency kind of, I think, but there really wasn't that much overlap. Once I finished, I got a bid to do a Nike, or not it was a Rydel football photo shooting video. Right after I finished. And I kind of had the thought of doing that. But then my friends at Empire Green like really like pushed me. Like, hey, like, you want technical direct? Can you bring all the models too, by the way? Right. And I was like, yeah, I can do that. Right. You know? And then we talked and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I could definitely do that. Right. But I'm like, ah, I might be a little tough, you know, playing hardball. But that was a blessing in disguise and focus models was born. Okay. So you started modeling, started with numbers too. Like, was it something that was like, oh, I can make a lot of money off of this? How much did you make starting off? I think it was for me, I was able to, first off, I was able to put my friends that were still trying to play football professionally in a position to make a lot of money. While still training. Okay. And looking the part and doing something. So was a lot of money that sound like? How much is a lot of money? A lot of money, some of those guys were making a thousand dollars a day for a shoot, right? But they're only working maybe once every two, three months. Okay. Based on the looks. But that's a cool actual little kick right there. Yeah, as the model agent you're making, you know, 40, 50% commission on those deals because you're charging the client, which is not the model actually, the client is the company or the agency that's hiring you to get the models and then you're charging the model. And then the model also typically, you don't get paid that money for, you know, 90 to 100 things to where you get the money and you pay the model. So how I did it was I would offer guys advances. I would pay guys early, you know, and up to close to 10 days from the shoot for a fee. And so that was a very lucrative part of the business as well. But it was a win-win for both parties, right? They had rent to pay or they had training costs to pay and I could operate as a bank. So how much would you make like a month additionally once you started doing that? Oh, I mean, I made three times what I made at Nike, like 150 in the first year. Okay. Easy. And it was just you. That's cool. So that means that the business brought in somewhere between $250,000 and $350,000. Okay. And it's like automated right there because you just got the funnel, everything comes through, you just take care of it. It was a lot more stressful than that. Only from the standpoint of like, it's not consistent and you didn't know the next paycheck was coming. I got you. The majority of it came off of one job. Yeah. And then you're like advertising and marketing and hitting people up to like, hey, hire our models. So you got to keep getting better. You got to keep bringing in more talent. And then, you know, talent at times get greedy. Cause you're like, oh, well, like you made this. It's like, bro, it's in the contract. This isn't the hustle. Like this is, I don't have to hire you. I could just pick somebody else. Right. So, okay. So you turned down $250,000, $350,000 extra from your, you know, a business that's making that much money. Cause you're like, I can make more money. We hit a drought too. You know, I was a young black man running a model agency and I learned, and this is the truth. We're on a DNA podcast show. We can talk real here. As a young black business owner, during those times in the early, you know, before all 2020, like you had to kind of hide your face as a black business owner. Otherwise people would indirectly put you out of business or they wouldn't hire you. Or they'd say, oh, he's young. Like, why are we giving him that? Oh, and I had old people that were black that even hated on me that tried to hustle me or like devalue what I was doing by devaluing the market. Right. I was like, why are you doing that? You're jealous because I'm doing it and you don't know how to do it. Mm-hmm. And that was something I just, I'm not used to moving there. I understand. I was very like taken back by it. Yeah, it's a little different on, you know, living in Portland. Just Northwest in general. The Northwest in general. Yes, correct. When it comes to that stuff. So now you've kind of seen your ceiling. You're doing this. You're making extra money on the side. You got kind of like two jobs, things, you know, you got your own thing. You got your main job. But you're like, bro, I gotta get out of this. Yeah. What pushed you over that line to be like, I'm really doing it. I'm switching up. Well, I just said, I mean, I really, I really put my two weeks in and left Nike. And I was telling people what I was doing on an as-need-to-know basis because I really didn't have to figure it out. I also was working for a sports agency in Seattle. It was really a law firm. And I was rebranding their sports agency practice to make it look cool, to go get good clients. For them? Yeah. Okay. And then I realized doing marketing, unless you're the top players, you don't make any money. Right. In addition to, the agent really calls the shots. So why am I doing new marketing? I'm a shot caller. I'm like, I'm making more money in this business over here than I am working for somebody else. So it got to a point where I was like, hey, one friend looked at me like I was rich when I bought a house. And I looked at him like he was stupid because he was in the league and he didn't own a house. He's like, oh, you paid 500 grand cash? I was like, no, no, FHA loan, you know? 3% not conventional loan. Like that's what, I mean, just something simple that he didn't understand. So that was different for sure. So you're now working with this company. Are you driving back and forth? Are you living up there in Seattle? I was driving back and forth. I was living down here. Living in Portland. Living in Portland. Bought the house in Portland. Bought the house in Portland. Going through family trials and tribulations with my mom and her house and her coming out of bankruptcy, coming out of the home loan mortgage crisis. She still somehow kept the house. Finally got the house modified in like 2016. You know what? You got to move, like just moving like moving with me. And she did. And we struggled for a minute. Living in one better apartment together when she hates like everybody, but it's the truth. And then bought the house. How long was that for? Me and her live together? Probably like four solid months. Okay, so you're out of college. You got the job. You don't walk away from the money. Yeah, people looked at me like I was crazy. You're like, it's like you're going backwards. But you got to take a step back to go farther forward. Man, you said it. That was a sound bite. Every time you take steps backwards, intentionally to go forward, you go forward so much faster than other people that are afraid to be humiliated or be ashamed of how they're going to get it done. Definitely. Yeah, for sure. I understand that part a lot. So you do that, you take a step back. Now you're going driving back and forth, trying to figure it out, got the crib. And now you are ready to become an agent. Yeah, now I'm leaning on a lot of my mentors. I'm getting back into doing informationals again. I'm reading a lot of books. And a friend says to me, and he really like guilt-tripped me kind of into it. If you were to be my agent, none of this shit would have happened. He's right. Remember how I was on the phone with you two? You were, that shit was wild. I was like, you were my agent. Was that me or somebody else said that too? That was somebody else said that too. Cause I said that too, remember? You did. I said that same shit. I was like, bro, if you were to be my agent, I would have been fine. I would have not had to worry about this. I know I would have got my shot for my trajectory. I think you got a shot just off of traits, like your height, weight, speed, metals, but people, not all people are like super young when they become agents. Most agents are extremely old. So when they're getting guys that are not top picks, like they thought they were going to come into the business and get top picks because they had such a great personality, but realistically, they were losers in high school. They're like, well, this is what I thought it was. I don't want to work this hard for no money. Versus looking at it like I'm learning. So I was fortunate enough to learn from some gentlemen named Adam Snyder by a lawyer named Adam Snyder who had a full-time law practice and he made a lot of money in that, but he actually gave a shit about the clients he had. And I would argue to him, he treated them too good. He spoiled them and like, they weren't that type of quality of player, but he went above and beyond and those players ended up all usually firing him and then they would get cut and they call Adam back and he'd take him back. I wouldn't take him back. Right. Yeah. It's like, ah, bro, you got to go trick it off and they want to come back. I can't help you, my sucks. I feel that. So yeah, I remember you called me and you was like, bro, I'm an agent. I'm an agent. You hit up. So, so, so, so. He did. Tell him to put me on. I was like, all right, bro. We got to put up. We got to get on the line. That DM still exists probably. Somewhere. I remember I was working on a house when you called me because I had just started flipping properties at the time and then you hit me. I came outside. It was like raining a little bit. He's like, yeah, I'm an agent. I think I got your number from Jordan. I didn't even have his number. I was like, that's all. We had known each other. We had known each other. We had done stuff, but we just didn't have each other's number. It's like, yo, what's up? I'm like, oh, shit, let's do it. That's how crazy I was. I was just called casted. Didn't even owe me favors and asked for favors, you know? But I always delivered. I always come back and ask for a favor, you know? I mean, yeah, I feel good doing everything, too. It's easy for people to start sharing stuff, especially when people got good intentions. But I think that's a good learning point, too. A lot of people ask people for stuff and they just come off like users, you know? Or they just don't reciprocate or return the favor. And a lot of people that do that don't make it far, even when they get that favor from a guy like DJ. They don't return it. It's like, bro, it's a give and take. You can't just take, take, take, take, take, take, take. Try to give way more than you take. That's what I always tell everybody. And so that's why I wrote this book, too, because people hit me up from my time to conduct informationals, but they're not even prepared. So now, and then it comes out, some people in the defensive, hey, let's get the book first. Young college student, once you make it halfway through, hit me up and let's talk about it so we can go from there, so we have a baseline. So you can kind of know how to conduct informational, not waste my time, not waste your time and put a little bit of money in my pocket for the time I was spending with you. Right. Yeah, and that's another thing, too. Like, I gotta applaud you for talking about this shit a year ago. Remember last season, we was in the hotel room, chilling, going to the game. We're like, oh, we're about to meet up. We went up, where we go? That was the Packers game we went to? We did. And we stayed at the hotel out there somewhere and we're like going to sleep and you're like, bro, I'm doing this book. I'm about to drop this shit next year, da, da, da. And now you did it. And that's the thing. A lot of people talk about that shit, but then they don't go do it. And it takes time, but you're here and you got it. And I remember I said the same thing. I was like, when you drop it, we make a new video. We gotta make something happen. That's why he was so hard today. I was like, we gotta drop the pot. So, but yeah, no, cause it's dope. I'm excited for stuff like that. It's people don't do that shit all the time. They just go and talk about it and then they don't go do it. But there's the doers and the non-doers, right? What's that? What's his name from Shark Tank? Mr. Incredible. Incredible? No. Magnificent? Something like that. I don't remember. One of those things. The ball dude. Yeah, the ball dude. And there's this real, and I honestly, it's some weird shit. I listened to that shit like maybe once a month. And like, I listened to it the whole day. I can tell in 90 seconds, winner, loser. And it's so true. You can tell, like as you get older, like who's a winner, who's a loser, who's gonna make it, who's not. And very rarely are you wrong. And then people get butt hurt about it because they're the loser and that's why they get butt hurt. But unfortunately, they gotta switch their mindset. So then they don't be the loser no more and they start changing things up. Well, like you said. But then we're the assholes for saying it. Yeah. Usually they just don't have it. And the ones that end up figuring it out, they'd be like, thank you. Or they'll be like, they'll still resent you, but they'll talk about you. Because this cast, misjudged me. Some that were hella rude, some that ended up working for me. Even when I was at Nike, there were some cast that were extremely disrespectful to me in the information interview process. And I wasn't even unprepared or unorganized or late tardy or asked them questions and they were just rude. Right. And maybe they were having a bad day, but then that same person ended up, because I was in brand working in a category alongside me and he was in the same band level as me. But brand leads, everybody else follows and executes the brand's game plan. So by default, he was beneath me for lack of better terms. And he had to report what he was doing to me. And so I didn't shit on him, but he always felt hella awkward that he had to report to me or like, give me his reports. And it's just crazy how life works out. For me, it's always less than like, just never treat people, treat everybody the same. Because you never know who's gonna be somebody. Definitely. Up, down, below, side, you just never know. And you still need everybody. Whether they're quote unquote above or below you or whatever. Like everybody is needed to make something. We need everybody. I would argue that people, that especially when you're on your way up, the people that are underneath you or following you, you know, not at that band level as you, are more important than the people above you. Right. Because the people above you already have their people that they came up with. And they're in the roles over you. And they already have a certain type of loyalty and had been through some shit where they already know who's who and they're not looking to add new players to the team. They got their franchise quarterback and the franchise quarterback has his players that he's rocking with, right? You see Aaron Rodgers wasn't going to know without Randall Cobb, right? And that's a real thing in corporate America, you know? So you have to find, if you're Aaron Rodgers, you gotta find your Randall Cobb and the Randall Cobbs gotta find their Aaron Rodgers, right? So you're building with the same people, right? Yeah. Well, Aaron Rodgers has to find his diva to Adams, right? Yeah. That's DJ. But I ain't throwin' him the rockin' over that shit. So you're doing this. What about the other parts of your business, the other stuff that you got going on with the agency? What you want to talk about? He wants to talk about the guest now. He wants to talk about the guest now. Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I had a quick question. Are you guys interested in taking your shoe game to another level, but you just don't know where to start? I built a full program just for somebody like you, the six-figure sneaker head. This right here, it's a eight-week program that takes you through all the steps that you need to know to really know the ins and outs of the shoe game and all the little details in between, building networks, buying bulk, growing your collection, you name it, there's a lot of details on the inside. Plus, with that, we have a full community where you can engage with everybody else that's going through the same program as you and we have monthly live meetups where you can connect with me and other members on the inside. We recap how we went with the last month and where we plan to go with the next month and we set goals for each other and held each other accountable. Also, with that, we do monthly giveaways. We give away a free pair of shoes every single month with different challenges and again, there's so much more on the inside. If this is something that's for you or you're looking to take your game to the next level or even flip your sneakers to turn that into real estate, this is the place where you need to be. I can help you with finding loans and remodeling properties and getting yourself on the right path to become a millionaire if that's something that you desire. If this sounds like something for you, hit the link down below in the description and get signed up today. This is more than just sneakers. I wanna see people grow and succeed in all aspects of life. All right, let's get back to the podcast. We're not gonna talk about the good stuff because the good stuff is gonna slap somebody in the face. Right? Pow! Never let your right hand know what you left us thinking. But we got some cool stuff coming. Maybe one day we'll do another episode about that topic. Yeah, we will. We definitely will. But I'll keep it serviced up. We're dropping some disruptive merch. Click the link right there. That's the name of his agency. Disrupted, yes. Yes, it is. Sorry, I forgot to mention that. So do you think starting the agency and everything too, being a manager now, an agent now, has affected the play on this stuff? Like with the book? Or is it kind of like two different worlds? I got my athletes, I got all my stuff. Are you pushing it to them for promo only? Or is it like, are they a key factor to helping you finish writing the book? Because it's kind of all happening at the same time. I think that the book, to me, I see a lot of agents that have books about the agent process. This has nothing to do with being NFL agent. And that's why I wrote it because it's applicable to anybody in the industry. You could be, it's really for college graduates, high school students, graduates, NBA graduates, and career switchers, people looking to get into a certain career. So it's teaching you how to conduct information interviews. Go to the person that's done what you wanna do and ask him for advice. Don't listen to everybody else that hasn't done what you wanna do. Go to the person that's done what you wanna do that looks the closest to you and ask him how he got to where he was at and ask the right questions and make him or her see themselves in you. So would you say, well, if you were to value informational interviews, how much would you value your informational interviews and where it's gotten to? 90% of everything I've done. 90%, what would be a dollar value on something like that? A billion, maybe a trillion, depending on how far we take it. No, I'm serious. I think it's probably 90% of my current net worth and my future net worth. Because everybody that, I'm always conducting information is whether people even realize it or not, whether I call it that or not, I'm always asking like, where you from trying to find common ground, right? How did you get to where you were at? That's me asking, where did you come from? What was your, what's some overlaps? What's some mutual connections we may have? That's just me trying to find common ground and make you feel like I'm a friend. So we're not just talking corporate to each other the whole time. That's making you indirectly want to help me and vice versa. Damn. There's so many ways I can go with asking more about this. I'm trying to think of... I mean, tell me how information has helped you in your life. Like, who was the first person you saw that was a sneaker hat? I don't know if anybody's ever asked you this. The first person I saw was a sneaker hat. Like, what's some inspiration that got you to start becoming like... I think honestly, yeah, the first sneaker hat to me was like my parents. Really? Because they were like... My mom and dad. My mom and dad both had J's. Like all the OG stuff from back in the 90s. Like they was rocking that stuff. And I remember them like matching. I remember when the Brad 11s first came out and they were matching and like the 13s and all the stuff. Like I remember seeing all that stuff as a kid. So them keeping them clean, telling me to keep mine clean and everything like that. And I would always ask them like, what's coming out next? How do we get it? Where do we go? All this stuff like that. For me, it was truly them. Like it wasn't like a older cousin or something like that. Yeah, they were like the root for me. Well, like for me, I think when I first saw you coming up, DJ was doing so much. I mean, like life school was like just popped up out of nowhere and it felt like it was everywhere. That's like over. It felt like it was everywhere. And I was like, what is that? Like what made you pivot to like, I'm gonna talk about sneakers. I'm gonna go on YouTube. I'm gonna start my life. Like what made you start that? Like in current time? Like where I started this channel? No, I don't... Or back then? You have so many channels. I don't even know. Back then I did have a channel. Originally I was like, I want to talk about sneakers, but I wanted to like promote the shoes so I could sell them. So I was like, I could tell people like, hey, go check out my website shop on my website, but I'm gonna show you the shoe in hand, give you guys an in depth look and then now you can go buy it and make you love it, teach you about it and then sell it to you. See this is how arrogant I am. You guys are probably like really know everything about him. I don't even know this stuff. I'm really ignorant. Like I didn't even know he had a sneaker website store. Yeah. I used to sell heavy. I used to sell a lot of shoes, bro. No, my own website. See? I was one of the top... He said it, but I was like, there's no way he has his own website. I was one of the top like 10 or 15 online sneaker resale websites. Like complex was writing articles about me. See how he just kept doing that? He could have figured out stock eggs. This is why I never liked him. I know. We could be balling. It's okay. Forget Sundays. We could be balling seven days a week. Yeah. It's all good though. I think, I don't know. I didn't want to sell shoes forever. Like I wanted to get into real estate and everything. We talk about real estate a little bit. Let's talk about it. Okay. So what's the portfolio at now? I have eight units and I'm getting ready to add a knife. And then I'm getting ready to add another building in the back a lot. So I have a garage that I have to redo the soft story in California. There's a soft story requirement to add identified beams to the building. So that the earthquake happens, the building doesn't collapse over the garage. So I'm gonna turn additional garage. So actually two of them, but one of the units already done. So I'm gonna redo both the unit, one of the units and then add another one to make it a one bedroom, one bath. Okay. So what do you think the, well, after all that stuff is done, what's the value of all your real estate gonna be? Including my single family home, probably about 3 million. Okay. So you'll be at 3 million in real estate and where are you trying to get to? Cause I feel like 10 is cool. But like, I've never been concerned on the value. Value is so subjective. I know. People brag about it and like to brag about it. All I care about is the cash flow. I'm not all I care about, not set to the bank. I don't only care about cash flow because otherwise I'd buy in Texas and Detroit. Just having a hundred properties. But I don't believe in that. I do believe in, you know, winning in real estate in four different ways. Appreciation, cash flow. What else? I'm sorry, I'm blanking on my tax deductions. And then just the people, it's not an actual like value, but like the people that you meet, the neighborhoods that you're in, the tenants that you have. This past year and this new building I bought because it was nicer and I redid one of the units. I had a tenant that was interning out of venture capital firm. And she was a friend of Brennan's actually. Yeah, and she was hell of smart. And I didn't even know, but because I was doing informationals because everything goes back together, I figured that out. And then she was able to help me learn how to raise capital better. And I was able to assist her super last minute in a great spot to rent for a cheap. Greatest capital. Cheaper. Okay, so yeah. And the reason why I said 10 mil, I think it's cool for just value because I feel like it definitely will put you in a position where it's like, you're definitely really comfortable. You could say like, I'm done for the most part. It should guarantee you a solid cash flow to live a decent life. And there shouldn't be too many worries behind something like that. Yeah, I mean, what do I want with my member? I want to have, I want to make, I won't stop, but I'll slow down. Once I have $100,000 a month in rental income per month. I like that, right? That's when I'll slow down. I ain't mad at that. Once I can get to that, I'll be cool. Yeah, I feel it. So people are probably wondering how'd you even get into real estate and how that all started? Shout out to my uncles because they're gonna annoy me if I don't. Divine the Divine Brothers. Greg and Eric Divine, they have a YouTube show called Divine Way. Not any type of way, the right way, the divine way. The divine way. Please go back and look at some of their old content. Not all of it's great, but they're trying their real dinosaurs. When I say they, I really mean Eric. Because he's so much donor in life that he is on his content most of the time. But he's amazing. Eric really, Eric personally really motivated me. He carried on the legacy of my grandfather and just buying real estate. But Eric made it sexy. He did, he made it really cool. Even when he was broke, he used to act like he was just balling like Greg. Exactly, he was balling. So that we did an interview. I went and met with them for those that don't know. That's on my other channel, DJ Willingham. Because they got like 30 million in real estate or something like that. Yeah, so they got a bunch of doors, a bunch of stuff. There's a lot of information on that video as well. But they taught me the game. They taught you the game. Slowly but surely just. And when I say taught, I think that people at Michigan shoe taught like teaching someone the game with like, here's how you do it. I had a playbook, but she just got to be around people to learn it. Oh, for sure. And then do your own homework behind closed doors. So I started to ask the right questions when I went to graduate school. I intentionally moved back and went to San Francisco so that I could get my master's degree as fast as possible, only going to class one to two days a week. So I could become an NFL certified agent. And the rest of the time, my free time when I was doing homework and stuff, I was spending with my uncles just watching how they ran their business. Which is like back to the book, right? Exactly. Same thing. Like you said, 90% out of your stuff. Just 90%. The 10 is just DNA. Shut your ass up. But I'm serious though. It's not on you. It's in you. No, for real. Some people got it. Some people don't. I was born a king. I was. Yeah. I came from Kings. I'm a gorilla. I'm an ape. I'm on that. I feel that. I feel that. Was there anything you want to go over before we wrap up? Man, I just want to know, how big is this podcast going to get? Like, you know, after me, who are you going to have next? Is this show going to go on the road? Oh, we're going to take it on the road for sure. I think it's going to be dope to like, because I travel so much. I could take all this stuff with me, set up somewhere. I think I'm only going to have special people over here, which you're special. And I think my mom made it. I think it's going to be dope to hear more stories about people, you know, like, like I said, you worked at Nike, different stuff like that. I think hearing those backends and how they transition to the whole different things or people that are still in it or in the shoe game or something. I think there's a lot of ways we could tap into stuff and help people see like the entrepreneurship side, plus being a sneakerhead, because everybody thinks you just waste money on shoes. Or if you're in the shoe industry, you're just stupid or whatever. But it's not that. It's not that at all. It's never what it's perceived to be. And I mean, some of the most brilliant and smartest people I ever met were to Nike with me. I mean, from Geron Smith to Jeremy Smith, his brother, to Garen Strong, to Chad Easterling, Andy Miguel, Mark Chan, I mean, just to name a few. Howard White, some of them are still there. Cliff King, Mike Newsom, BMAC, Brandon Macklemore. I don't say his name, let me just say BMAC. Let me just say BMAC, because I don't actually remember his full name all the time in my head. Work There, Work There, Carol Grant, MVP. I mean, there are some serious, less green. I mean, there are some serious people that work there that influenced my life, but showed me as a black man that like, you can excel in anything you do. And those were some of the first cast to leave Nike. You know what I mean? And it was like the great wave, the great migration. And I was like, whoa, he left Nike, wow. Right, Nike is the biggest thing ever. It's one of those tops, Apple, all this stuff. Yes, that is true, but you can go do your own thing somewhere else and be bigger. Facts, but being a Nike, I mean, you learn so much. If you can get a job there after undergrad at a young age and just like take it all in and like breathe it and not just breathe it, but refine it and not drink too much of the Kool-Aid to where you're blinded, man, you can, there's so many opportunities to come from that. Man, I'm just thinking about all the people that started different things over the years that I've known them and make me excited just thinking about like, yeah, we gotta get people on the podcast, right? Right, and that, we're young. Right. Like the cast I'm talking about now, I mean, Ron, he was the social media manager for Barack Obama, and then he went on to go run Steph Curry and Inkin. Right. You know, I mean, sky's the limit, there's no ceiling. He went from Nike and everybody's like, he left Ron and people were like, oh, where's he about to go work for Under Armour because he didn't get the director role. And then he just like shitted on everybody and he just popped up in a photo with Barack Obama coming off of the fucking jet and I was like, what the fuck, who works for Barack Obama? And then like this, like he's got pictures who perverts Barack Obama, yo, there's no ceiling. We can do anything. No, for real, for real. Okay, so hot round and then we outta here. What is the greatest era Jordan of all time? The model, you don't have to say colorway. What model is the greatest? I'm not a sneakerhead. I'd say, I mean, probably Jordan 11's hell of futuristic. Yeah, great shoot. Okay, so if you could only wear one sneaker for the rest of your life, what would it be? Jordan ones. Jordan ones? So just any colors as long as it's Jordan one? Any color. Okay, okay. How many pairs of shoes do you have in your collection now? You know, I sold my whole collection when I went down to buy my house. Okay. Sold everything. I probably had a wall like about like this big, right? Okay. Sold all of them. I just started acquiring more shoes. I think I have like 12. Okay. Like honestly, I don't have more than 12. Okay, I'll have you get the 13th one then. Yeah, so I'm talking about it. I got you, bro. I got you, bro. All right, cool. Let me get the, let me get those walls from Back to the Future. Yeah, I want those. Not really. Okay, so have you got one thing to say to the people that are watching? You know, if you had a message to yourself or the people that's watching, what would you say? You can do anything you says your mind to and don't let anybody tell you different. That's it. All right. Tell them where to get it from, where they can follow you at and we out of here. Anywhere you want. But if you want to help me get the most royalties and not give it to the man, please buy it from Amplify Publishing. Thank you so much. All right, we'll have the link down below in the description. I appreciate it. We had a good time. This is the first part, you know what I'm saying? This is the best one that we had so far.