 Welcome to tonight's episode this week's episode of this week in sciences live podcast broadcast Yo Blair yo Justin you ready to do a show? What era those reactions are from I Don't even know I mean it could be the 90s like the 1690s even Noggin is all I got We're here to talk about science if you enjoy this program make sure you click on the subscribe button below The notifications bell if you want to be reminded about our recording and our going live whenever we do a live broadcast and Yeah Let's do this thing that we do on a weekly basis that Sometimes might be edited for the 90 minutes for the podcast or for radio, but it's just live. That's it if we mess up It's just If we have hiccups You're making it longer now let's go Justin you're holding us up. Let's go holding us up now Beginning in a three two This is Twist this week in science episode number 879 recorded on Wednesday, June 8th 2022 Oceans of science on ocean science on ocean science day. No, let me say that headline again Oceans of science on ocean day I'm dr. Kiki and tonight on the show. We will fill your head with Lava life zinc requirements and ugly fish, but first Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer The world is going to hell in a hand basket, but there are things we can do to prevent it We need the willpower. That's it. Just a willpower to do it We can halt the rise of carbons in the atmosphere that threaten our cities our food sources and the intricate web of every living creature On the planet if we have the willpower to make some changes We can reduce gun deaths homelessness poverty and hatred if we have the willpower to make some changes We can overcome illness manage pathologies cure diseases if we have the willpower to make some changes Changes aren't impossible. They actually aren't even hard the changes We need to reach a sustainable healthy secure future. They're already available to us We just lack the willpower to act to do to engage And actually that's not even true Willpower has nothing to do with it We lack the knowledge of how to act how to do and how to engage and actually Again, that's also not entirely true because we have the knowledge of how to act how to do and how to engage We have the results of policies around the nation and from around the world over all of history We know the outcomes of actions We know the outcomes of change and we know The outcome of our status quo as well if you're not concerned with the threat of the status quo If you aren't activated to do some form of activism If you are not interested if you do not care you have not been listening to this week in science Coming up next Got the kind of And the good science to you too Justin Blair and everyone out there welcome to another episode of this week in science on world oceans day Instead of wooing them, you know Giving us the sounds of the ocean. Yes. I like you're up to a nice conch You're still just focused on the foamy waves on the edges the ocean is so much bigger than you imagine So some places it smells it sounds like Really Really It sounds like that, right? Okay. Well the majority of it sounds like that. This is all very exciting What if it also what if it also Sounded a little bit like This Is that a wave harp I know the wave organs exist. Is that a wave harp? Is that what that is? No, so what we are listening to right now is some music that was created mathematically By translating visual satellite images taken by nasa into layers of ocean color data and different Colors in these satellite images were coded as different parts of the scale and different instruments and so What this particular sound of the sea is is the work of these musicians A scientist was a co-creator also ryan van der mulen And this particular one is Rio de la Plata, and it's the sound of a large river entering a large ocean Okay Yeah, that's about as convoluted A way to get to that music as they possibly could have found Yeah, but it's kind of fun. They took uh, they it's all data So this is visual image data that's been transcoded into music to create these As van der mulen calls it oceanographic symphonic experiences Yeah, and it's amazing how how like the uh, the western Octave the that data happened to fall into I guess. Oh, yes. No, I'm sure it's amazing how that just happened They assigned the various values to things within a specific scale and probably within that even specific chords Yes, exactly. So that it sounded good for sure. So it sounds nice. Yes It's if you removed every key on the piano except for those in a very specific set you could make some really beautiful music too Yeah, yeah But I you know, we've talked before about creating sound from Different data sets and people have been trying to make Auditory versions of data from the lhc They've been trying to create, you know, all sorts of auditory ways of imagining things like proteins and This is another another twist I've never liked it any time that they've ever attempted to do any of these things You just need to look at it different just instead of the ocean made some beautiful music. No, no, no The scientists made some beautiful music With data that they got from the ocean. That is a difference a different spin That perhaps you might enjoy it more. I think it took some beautiful scientific knowledge And some really great musical knowledge to make that piece of art. I think that's This piece that's playing in the background right now is um a piece of the Bering Sea that's representative of Photosynthetic bacteria. So we've got blue is the ocean, which is the first base. You can't hear it. No Oh, did I turn it down? Oh I clicked it on the wrong screen. Hold on. Yeah, this isn't if somebody was to just do an interpretive dance You could do an interpretive dance. No, this will get cut I would no, I know and I don't enjoy that either So this piece that we're bringing in right now This is the Bering Sea and it is representative of the blue of the ocean The green light that emerges from the ocean from the photosynthetic bacteria that's in it. There's also this flute Which is red light That also comes From the ocean it's reflected from the ocean. So we've got these three instruments three scales Giving us a visual picture of life in the ocean on our planet earth on this earth day Now you can do your Your your dancing Justin. I feel like I'm I feel like I'm in a in a waiting room That I've been waiting in for a long time and I and it's not even anything I want to wait for It's not your music. That's okay. I think it's very neat. They involved uh, so John van der mulen van den mulen is Dr. van den mulen's brother and he's a programmer And has experience in digital music Production and so helped to do the programming and they actually made a lot of this on garage band So not even using super high tech equipment. So it's Anybody could figure out how to do these things and nasa has released a bunch of these videos And these musical productions online so you can go find them wherever you like Looking for nasa things I'd love to hear that in a spa. I think it would be great. Yes, it would be really nice relaxing spa music Oh my goodness But that was like this whole thing of ocean music and we are here to talk about science, right? So what are we gonna talk about today? We have a great show ahead. I have kombucha on mars I've got zinc in the oceans bacterial brain death and fun guys What do you have Justin I've got uh living in the bad place Uh some just good news some just good news about uh life Good news about life Uh and a couple of stories about crimes. I guess one story about crime stopping and one story that uh That what you believe and may determine how long you live May I believe I would live forever, right? I believe in modern medicine Is that Okay, Blair, what's in the animal corner? Oh, I I just have a whole bunch of world oceans day fun and then um to kick off the show I have some non-animal news About uh women and children So there you go. They're animals. We're animals. Yes. They certainly are. We're a particular kind Subset of animalia human human animals, but then later on we'll talk we'll really get into the salt water Let's get into the salt water. Go swim in with the ugly fishes As we're jumping into the show want to remind everyone that if you are not yet subscribed this week in science You can find us all places that podcasts are found look for this weekend science We broadcast live streaming weekly on wednesdays at 8 p.m pacific time on youtube facebook and twitch You can find us also as twist science twis c i e n c e on twitch Twitter and instagram our website is twist.org if all of this gets to be too much for you But if you haven't done so yet click whatever subscribe button Is where you are right now and make sure to sign up for notifications Science time Or should I play more nasa? Do both play the music in the background All right, well Justin you want to take us to the bad place, but I want to give us some good news so uh earlier this week there was news of uh A very intriguing study suggesting that there is a treatment for rectal cancer That has resulted in complete remission of the patients who have been treated by this therapy Matt Stafford sent this email Sent an email and said I know you don't normally cover cancer stuff because as we've said for years and years and years It's that the cure. There's no cure. There's so many different forms of the disease. It's all just out there Well, actually actually I feel like more recently we've been doing them because it's been Hey results were cured of cancer. There's another cancer that's being cured where before it was like Oh, yeah, opening the pathway to the doorway to the secret hatch will Allow us to take a pathway to get a secret So what we've ended up with this week is out of memorial Sloan Kettering hospital This trial that was published in the new england journal of medicine this last week of 12 subjects Who were treated using an immunotherapy treatment for rectal cancer? They did not receive chemotherapy radiation or any other type of regular cancer Therapy and the immunotherapy They've been cancer-free the tumors disappeared been cancer-free for two years So in this small group of people This has worked. Why was this so successful this method is specifically looking at a very small proportion of a subset of the population of people who get rectal cancer Within a group of people There is a particular mutation That changes the way that corrections can be made. There's a mismatch things don't line up and they don't get corrected but they were able to address that with this immunotherapy that specifically Basically goes in and tells the immune cells. No, no, no those are cancer cells Go kill them and because the cancer cells by the time this immunotherapy has been given have like grown really big and there's a lot of them and they're like I'm a big cancer cell. Don't look at me. Um, but the The immune cells because of this immunotherapy they get the blindfold taken off and they go You are tricking me now. I'm gonna get you and they just take them all out and the cancer disappears and the In the reports they said that some people within just two or three of the immunotherapy sessions Which were given about three weeks apart for six months just within the first two or three therapy sessions The tumors started to read started to have a reduction in size and they started to see um A reversal of their of their symptoms that had sent them to the hospital to the doctors in the first place So that's just one and there were two other stories this week as well another one Related to the bracket two gene where some people who have breast cancer They have a bracket two low is the gene So they've got the bracket two gene, but they've only got a very small quantity of the mute of the mutations in their genes. So not all of the cancerous cells express the bracket two phenotype It's a very low proportion. So they're within this very very small again subset genomic It's a small group of people a small genomic subset of the people who get breast cancer And who are even smaller than the group that have the bracket gene and With that with this particular treatment again published in new england journal of medicine, but all three studies were actually published in the new england journal of medicine this last week And what it what it ended up doing was leading to The ability of chemotherapy To be able to treat the breast cancer. So previously untreatable breast cancer was suddenly treatable and then the third one is was pancreatic cancer Which can be it's incredibly deadly and a patient with progressive metastatic pancreatic Cancer was treated with a single infusion of autologous T cells that had been genetically engineered And so those genetically engineered T cells went and targeted the tumors and the patient is in Is in remission complete remission as a result the thing that all three of these studies have in common Is genomics and the application of understanding the mutations that are in play and being able to target therapies directly at those those mutations This is the future of cancer treatment and the present and the present it's happening right now It's back to that idea of very personalized healthcare, right? And I think that's yeah, that's definitely where we're going Um, it's very cool. I will just throw out there again. If if this really works This is great. I'm super psyched the idea of taking care of cancer one by one and and figuring it all out I don't know where we're gonna put all these people. That is the thing that like Especially talking about world oceans day, right and about environmental disaster and about the human population I this is the conversation we had when I first joined the show too Like I super on an individual level. I want each sick person to live forever. I want that to happen Yes, but there's a population level Yeah, this was like this was a big population control and yes, I understand if you have been touched by someone with cancer That's a mean thing to say and I and I get that and I I don't want knowing an individual I don't want any individual to get cancer There is this systems thinking that I'm always having that's Where are we gonna put all these people? Is this Then we're just gonna have aging populations there People kicking around the old folks home, you know, it's gonna be great It's somebody with cancer. I can tell you I'm all for all the cares that they're finding. I find those extremely important I totally agree with you completely. I just don't know where we're gonna put all these people because Because the results are in The results are in again again. Yeah. Yeah And uh, it looks like uh We are all living in the bad place No Carbon levels in the atmosphere Carbon levels in the atmosphere have reached an all-time high as they probably have been doing every couple years now but uh carbon dioxide measured at NOAA's Moana Loa atmospheric baseline observatory peaked for 2022 at 421 parts per million The just this last month pushing the atmosphere further into territory not seen for millions of years millions Of years is a mighty long time. But what's most strikingly is how quickly We've uh, we've now gotten to these increased levels So how long ago do you think it was the last time that we were at the over 420 million parts for uh For a million there in the atmosphere Not million parts per million Parts per million parts per 420 parts per million. Yeah Yeah Uh, I remember there being uh Mammoths for sure Oh, might even be four four and a half million years ago As the last time we were over 400 parts per million four 20. So yeah Yeah, so let's put this in a little context. So prior to the industrial revolution co2 levels We're consistently around 280 parts per million. That's for the sort of thousands of years of civilization This is when we invented agriculture decided where we would want to live what we would be eating And how we would be getting along with each other on the planet at 280 parts million a few hundred years later industrial revolution all this 420 over 420 parts per million 50% increase Well, what were things like that four and a half million years ago? When we were over the 400 parts million what let's step back shall we into the days of yesteryear? And those good old days the sea levels varied between five and 25 meters higher than they are today So a meter if you're not familiar Is uh is three times its weight and feet Ish or the other way around. Yeah, so you got uh five meters Would be a 15 foot sea level rise ish. Yeah 25 meters would be about 75 Ish uh meters of sea level rise There's there's this fun site too that you can go to that shows the effects of sea level rise Uh Over time and it only goes up 10 feet So it doesn't even get sort of like to the minimum of where This carbon level indicates we could be headed quickly So anyway, that's high enough to write an entire Atlantis like mythology Around many of the world's largest modern cities going forward temperatures way back then averaged seven degrees Fahrenheit higher Large forests covered what we consider arctic tundra today and according to uh no administrator rick spin spin read The science is irrefutable Humans are altering our climate in ways that our economy and our infrastructure must adapt to we can see the impacts of climate change Around us every day the relentless increase of carbon dioxide measure that wana loa is a stark reminder that we need to take urgent serious steps To become a more climate ready nation Yeah, if I can kind of take what I was talking about before and fold it into this I think The the main takeaway that I have is if we could take the same amazing technology That we are putting towards medical care because everyone can agree We don't want sick people And apply that same lens To how we get energy We could actually do a lot of good and accommodate rising populations longer lived populations and uh greater energy requirements Without doing this to our planet But I there's the there's this disconnect right where it's Again, everyone can agree Illness is bad. Let's well for the most part most people can agree that we want to fix illness. You're right. This is 2022 I got to adjust most but the the energy conversation has been skewed to become politicized and biased and all this kind of stuff And so it's not just a simple. Okay. We have to we have to make this world A place where we can inhabit and grow and thrive For the future recognizing what our future looks like and this is the part Of climate change information that is often left out is when talk about oh, that's way in the future. Oh, it's not real Oh, it's a it's a political argument Uh, people don't want big oil all this kind of stuff No, this is real life impacts on real life people that we are currently seeing and will very quickly see in the future And I that's why sea level rise maps are tough because there's a million variables And it's really hard to to say, you know, okay This is exactly what you're going to see if this then that But it's it's the visualization that you need to kind of bring people Down to earth and recognize that this is a and oddly that map that you're looking at there kiki is only It only goes up to 10 feet, but it also doesn't it's only in the united states that they've got it They show the whole world only the u.s. Is going to be affected apparently It's the national oceanic and atmospheric They don't care what happens elsewhere They'll all be fine. Let's just all move to canada Everyone will have a seal Anyway, that's I was I was filibustering but essentially This this show. Yeah, we need we need to adjust how we how we make energy That's all I'm saying. Well, but there's silver lining. Do we need to shift it? Yes. It's of course According to you know, just even at 10 feet, but especially if once it gets over 10 feet to see rise, uh, no more florida No, but that's a that's that's physical space where we can't put people anymore. That's a problem Yeah, but it's a physical space that seems to have collected people as a block But then you want to put okay, that's enough place They're not going away. No, I think they're stubborn enough not to move. I think you'll be so correct Yeah, but you know, hey, thanks to the ocean for uh Being the sponge for all this carbon dioxide that we have been releasing into the atmosphere for so long I mean, that's what our oceans do, right? We have ocean acidification because we've been releasing too much carbon dioxide more of that in the animal corner Yes more to come Blair We've been shouting at each other a little bit. We sure have. Yeah. Is there a bit of what noise pollution going on here? Yeah, how is this going to affect everybody? It's bad for the children Okay, like me This is a study from barcelona institute for global health and they wanted to look at schools 38 schools in barcelona and the noise inside and outside of the classroom and how that impacts development of working memory and attention in primary school students They looked at two thousand six hundred and eighty children between seven and ten years of age They looked at uh two abilities that develop rapidly during pre-adolescence and are essential for learning and school attainment attention, which is looking at um Selectively attending to specific stimuli or focusing on a specific task difficult for any human these days but especially children And then working memory is the system that allows us to hold information in the mind and manipulate it over a short period of time They looked over a 12 month period Cognitive tests and they wanted to see the change over time because children are are learning very rapidly at this age They also took noise measurements in The 38 schools outside in the playgrounds and inside the classroom and what they found is A noisier classroom Is harder for children It impacts this memory this attention And as little as a five decibel increase in outdoor noise impacted working memory Uh, it made it 11 percent slower than average and it made work uh working memory uh The complex side of working memory which is when um We use the information that we're storing in working memory Um and and kind of use it over time. That was 23 slower than average Exposure to five decibels of outdoor traffic noise also resulted in attention capacity That was about five percent slower than average. So everything was impacted by noise They also did test based on um neighborhood data The how loud it was in these individual students neighborhoods They didn't go measure their individual house, but they measured by neighborhood And uh, there was no association Between residential noise and cognitive development. It was only in the school So they think that's because school time is when they're having these intense windows of concentration And they are actively trying to learn And so that is when the noise pollution really gets to them And I brought this study more just to remind us all that humans are animals and we've talked about noise pollution with animal species a bunch of times But we haven't really talked about it in relation to humans and specifically children who are impacted by noise pollution Yeah, I mean I think that is the really That's the really important point is we talk about oh how are all of our urban sounds affecting birds How are the sounds we make in the oceans affecting whales? Um, but we're not talking about how those environments I mean underwater isn't where humans usually are for the large part, but in our urban environments. Yeah At that What impact does noise make on? Our abilities and then also if you want to get really Intense about it. This is not part of the study But I'm willing to bet money that at least in the united states if you looked at what schools were the noisiest it's usually inner cities urban areas Probably public schools before private schools that are in kind of quieter suburban areas So that can impact specific socioeconomic levels in some places. There's actually a specific Ethnical change, right? Um that you have specific ethnic Ethnicity based change. I can't find the right word, but yes, you'll find certain demographics That's a better word for this that are put in certain schools in certain areas Whether that's supposed to be the case or not and if those are more often the loud Busiest parts of the city that could impact academic performance, which later impacts funding which later impacts all sorts of things So just throw out there as an extra I'm just wondering though. I'm just wondering what makes the teachers so much worse at teaching once it's loud Are they just distractable folk are teachers people who become teachers like the quiet type people who like That's not what it is. I feel like that might be it. I feel like it might just be the teachers get Slim the teachers. Yeah. Yeah, great. All the teachers listening right now are gonna love that Hey, noise can't be good for them either. But the study was about the students the students performance on test. So I That's that's the that's the data we have Like I thought the band teacher wasn't even in the united states So, you know, there's you could also throw that variable in there But it's it's I would say this is an opportunity to look at those things Band teacher probably doesn't even know there is noise outside. Of course not. They're hard of hearing. I mean, that's why I I can't hear very well at all because I sat in front of the tuba player for 10 years So it's you know Oh But do you like drinking kombucha? No Justin no nasa space music. No kombucha No interpretive dance It's there are you a kombucha drinker? No, I don't like this This team is not big on kombucha, but I know there are a bunch of people out there in the world who enjoy it. Well kombucha has a the mother right this is the uh The bacteria and yeast combination is that a scoby? Is that what that is? Okay. Yes the mother the scoby the uh the microbial ferment Micromial life that allows for the fermentation that allows for the kombucha to be the beverage That that people decide to drink Some people call it tea fungus mushroom tea Just You give it that red tea and sugar uh to feed it And then you get the big pellet that they're floating on the top there. Yeah, and yeah, it's terrible That's it Published this week in frontiers in microbiology some uh international researchers including the university of goten geng I don't know a goten gen goten. I'm not pronouncing that correctly and I apologize make all make all the uh Consonants vows and all the vows continent Have it Anyway, these researchers sent kombucha cultures to the international space station and uh, they wanted to find out how robust kombucha microbes actually are and whether or not cellulose in particular Uh, it can be a a biomarker for uh Can be a robust biomarker So they sent it up to space Brought it back down after one and a half years in simulated mars-like conditions so Not just to the international space station, but simulated mars on the international space station And then they let them sit and cultivate for a couple of years and then they decided to see if they could reactivate them after two and a half years and they found that those microbial species that contained bacterial cellulose survived whereas those without cellulose did not this suggests that microbes with cellulose could live on mars but it also suggests that uh bacterial cellulose could be a biomarker which means a signal for extraterrestrial life that we look for on other planets and moons in the universe anyway Yeah, kombucha on mars or at least part of the scoby will make it to mars. Anyway, the cellulose part Bet you didn't know if you're drinking kombucha that your kombucha could survive in space That makes sense. It looks like an alien Well, and and uh, you know, probably have a good company when once it gets there Tartigrades That too Yeah What kind of company Justin? So just good news Is this just good news science news segment that seeks out the good news despite the future being completely entirely doomed origin of life addition Life question is is it uniquely an earthling oriented fluke occurrence? An intergalactic oopsie of one-off chemistry and unlikely Unprobable improbably even freak outlier in a universe big enough to run the numbers up on odds till the nil to impossible actually happens Or is it something so basic so natural to the underpinning of chemistry in our universe that is likely to be Absolutely everywhere. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? Everywhere everywhere everywhere. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Yeah, except except when it dies Yeah, it's you're going everywhere. Yeah, okay Well, that's I guess you guys got it right. That's the correct answer So, uh, this is scientists at the foundation for applied molecular evolution have made a discovery That may have answered our question about that once and for all First the premise of the debate, uh, the structure of RNA Is sort of considered the underpinning you kind of have to have the RNA structure before you even get to a dna structure because RNA is like half a dna here. How do you get the you know, it's the building block for a dna to in the first place and they've been looking at how these molecules might form and You know, we've had all sorts of elaborate get those base components and some chemistry Some very synthetic ways and adding electricity and trying to recreate The way that life may have formed So this RNA Was found to spontaneously form on basalt lava glass This is published online in the journal astrobiology Uh, the uh, what was it? Uh, Lisa beyondy The lead researcher study shows that long RNA molecules 100 to 200 nucleotides in the length form When uh, when you don't do when you do nothing more than when these uh, Nucleoside triphosphates do nothing more than percolate through basaltic glass This is glass that would have been abundant on the earth 4.35 billion years ago And similar results of this antiquity survive today on mars Because of what the basalts are made of and how they form This lava glass rock is likely everywhere that has planets with water and volcanic activity Since there is no indication of weird physics or different chemistry and other solar systems or in other galaxies life and the building blocks For the existence of life Are likely freaking everywhere out there Like everywhere Anywhere that has so yeah, so anywhere with volcanic activity or the conditions that could lead to the glassification Of these basaltic rocks. Yeah, so this and this is bonded Bonded RNA. It's not just basalt, right? It's the it's it's It's the the glass like the glassy form like this Yeah, this is what they they found out that it is forming on just naturally percolating from it Uh, so this barn, this is the bonded RNA though Not the fully double helical DNA that makes up advanced light and debate the status of RNA viruses being a life-former side the double helix is uh Is a lot like any of the other discussions in life. We live on a planet where we Are adapted To which which so it seems like this can be meant for us if we weren't adapted to it We wouldn't be here the double helix Is the stable adaptation of RNA? It's a structure The in that in a solution is bound and wound in such a way as that it can't get pulled apart in either direction This way the lengthwise it still stays together That doesn't mean there's a a persistence towards it in any any form of evolution But the fact that once it's together It's hard to separate makes it the thing that's adapted and makes it the thing that persists So that structure of double helical DNA very much like ours also then could very likely be Throughout the so it's not just viruses throughout the universe. It could be life, but this does being being the RNA Synthesis on these rocks though I mean that does kind of support the the RNA hypothesis like where RNA life is maybe the the primary stepping stone and then maybe to the more complex DNA and But some of those those building blocks steps that's also are involved in this so the impacts Into that early stage Earth also would have delivered nickel which the team showed gives the Nucleoside triphosphates From nucleosides and act they give them an activated phosphate is added into this Also, if there's borate borax Also part of the basalt controls the the form formation of those triphosphates So like all of the basic chemistry is there in an early planetary form right Beauty of this too is this this method is so uncomplicated They can actually create a high schooler with ruler recreation for the classroom That's cool. Yeah, I think that's going to be those are going to be experiments that High school science teachers are going to be using college science teachers also, but that's amazing That's a really neat RNA from nature I'm gonna do it at home spontaneous spontaneous generation Yeah, and I said I said the salt earlier and I meant like The igneous rocks that get turned into the basalt that Yeah, anyway, I misspoke but Lava rocks lava life It's true. We need heat. We need fire for life We also need zinc For life in our polar oceans according to a new study that has just been published in nature ecology and evolution 46 researchers international team five countries came together and We're looking at levels of nutrients levels of compounds in the polar oceans to determine How the ecosystems got started and what maintains ecosystems and so their findings discovered their findings showed that the polar Oceans they're very very productive, but they would not be If they didn't have zinc zinc which is like a you know Like it's when you take a supplement. It's like that last thing on the list and you're like, oh zinc. Does it have zinc? Okay, it's got zinc whatever we don't really think about it but in terms of the nutrition for photosynthetic algae in the polar oceans They evolved to rely on zinc for their life processes And so the researchers say this evolution appears to have enabled these primary producers to cope with the challenging conditions of polar surface oceans So challenging conditions if you think about it polar oceans half the year or at least for a part of the year They're in limited sunlight the other part of the year. They're in massive amounts of sunlight The oceans are also very very cold So they're in very cold water with limited light at different times of the year And so this is very challenging you can think of for anything to survive So they came up with ways to do that without zinc. We would have no algae In turn no fish and then no other marine animals zinc appears to have driven the evolution of complex life in polar oceans So it's just a fascinating thing which is this one linchpin That is an afterthought on like our our our nutritional supplements, right? Oh zinx in my cereal. That's great. Whatever So I take my zinc when I feel like I'm getting sick and that's us to boost my vitamin C Right, it's just to help your immune system. Yes, it's good for your immune system And it's good for the oceans and then I take my alka cells are when my tummy hurts And that's basically calcium carbonate, which is what makes all shellfish Corals All of it. Yep. So it's I'm just I'm just consuming the building blocks of the ocean As you are pharmaceuticals. That's interesting all my over the counters Yeah, that's you know, it's uh our heritage Yeah, certainly As consumers, right As is the ocean we are we are we are creatures of the sea truth Truth there, uh, and I guess nobody knows exactly How zinc got to be the linchpin. We don't really understand the cycling of zinc in the polar surface oceans yet, but More studies to come zinc vital important All right, but what are we missing blare you want to tell us something here that you know? It's vital or important Is for your health care provider to tell you if there are counter indications When you are being administered a drug This is a study from the european society of anesthesiology and intensive care And it was specifically looking at the use of the drug Su su gama dex su gama dex something like that, which is used in anesthesia It's administered toward the end of the operation Which uh right before the the patient is is brought back is woken up And it reverses the action of drugs given earlier in the procedure to relax muscles The thing is Su gama dex I would never I would always turn down this drug if every time my doctor tried to say it They're like I can't say it Massive debt and many years of schooling and why don't you leave the room medicine Practice it two or three times and then come in and pitch it to me again because right now I I lack a confidence in this drug you can't even pronounce right so so here's the thing jesson in most cases They don't tell you you're getting Su gama dex Hey, this is why but anyway, um Su gama dex it's it's known to interact with hormones in your body specifically progesterone Which means it reduces the effectiveness of progesterone pills Which is hormonal birth control The combined pills vaginal rings implants and iud's basically All of it that isn't condoms essentially as i'm probably missing i guess diaphragms, but anything that's like Hormone based contraceptives have impacts from this drug that i will not say again And the current guidance is to let your patient know if it is a woman of childbearing age wcba You should that they have received this drug and it increases the risk of contraceptive failure Which means those who take oral hormonal contraceptives have to follow the mispill advice on the leaflet, which How many people keep the leaflet you probably have to figure that out together and then those that have contraceptives that um Are non-orally taken have to use non-hormonal means of contraception for seven days following treatment Okay, yes, can I pause this for a sec? I Because I was having so much fun with the name of the drug I forgot why anybody was taking it in the beginning. It is part of anesthetics Okay, so you're gonna they're gonna put you out You're gonna have a tooth removed or a kidney replaced or emergency surgery Or elective surgery or any number of things and but then the next day you're still healthy enough to have sex Yes, and your birth control is not working because this drug is interfering with the hormone Or how about this maybe you had sex right before you've gotten to an accident That could be how the accident happened It could be a sex related accident Humans have sex These things can happen. Sometimes people get hurt. They need to go to the hospital So this means that this is really important. So researchers administered a seven question survey to um, all Uh anesthesiologists about 150 professionals. I can't do it today. I got three syllable words only today No, it's not. It's fine. You know what I'm talking about. So 150 professionals took this survey 94 of the what the the doctors that responded said the practitioners Said they were aware of the risk of contraceptive failure 94 So not not a hundred percent, but very high Almost all of them 70 percent said they do not routinely discuss this drug with the patients who receive it 70 percent So then they took a survey of 234 patients who were administered this drug during the six weeks covered by this audit 28 percent of the patients given this drug were of childbearing age And 48 of these should have received advice. That means the other 17 had medical history that meant they weren't at risk of pregnancy Any number of reasons, right? But so 48 of these people could have had An accidental pregnancy because of contraceptive failure But there was no they would have never but never known about and they wouldn't have known why their contraceptive failed And they would have been like, oh what wait Yeah, there was no record on any of the 48 charts That they were talked to about it. No record at all. So are there any pregnancies? They did not follow this To that level they were just looking at this survey to see our doctors talking to them about it Okay And so in response to the findings the authors created a patient information leaflet sure and letters sure But they're programmed to the electronic patient record system to identify Quote-unquote at-risk patients and deliver electronic prompts to the practitioners caring for them to talk to them about it So it's kind of like if I know I've seen it It's like a notification to their to their tablet as they're going around and making their rounds. Oh Miss Blair Yes, it must inform you It says here that sugar mama dex is going to make you a sugar mama Yes, so this is the thing right is it's just it's like um I've seen a point of sale system at stores that say like have you smiled Did you ask them how their day was like we're having to do this now with these practitioners? I don't know if this is because it just doesn't occur to them I don't know if this is because it's a delicate subject. They don't want to bring up I don't know what's going on But ultimately this is a problem for a couple reasons Uh, the main one that I'm thinking of is that we now are in a situation in the united states Where this mistake could cause someone to carry an unwanted pregnancy Uh, yeah, okay that brings it home. Yep. So this was the thing where I read this and I went Oh, no. Yeah, this is a big problem because It adds a whole extra level of Of danger there Which is really responsibility. Yeah, and who's responsible in that case? And here's the thing I think I think you've kind of pinpointed the the thing with that smile and all the information you're supposed to say if you if you go to, uh If you go to a pharmacist a pharmacy and you buy something pharmacist You buy it over here, and then you scoot down to the counter you pay over Scoot down and then somebody sits there and like reads you half of the the indications the warnings is like Hey, if you if you do this if you drive if you don't You know whatever it is don't stand on your head for the next 24 hours while you're taking this otherwise You'll get really dizzy And they read you all this stuff, but if you get one of those anesthesia apologists They're they're more like well, you're gonna feel a warm and tingly feeling then you're gonna sleep And that's kind of where they leave it. They don't go under a whole lot of Details about what they're giving you they're just knocking you out and they're moving on So I wonder if they have to like adopt the same sort just get the get the pharmacist call them up from the From the pharmacy and haven't come up to the operating room and give you the little spiel before they put you out But if it's an emergency who's got time It's I mean, it's the tough thing is you tell people after the fact. Yeah, you tell them When you're talking about here on out. Yeah, exactly and there needs to be it needs to be in there somewhere I feel like people are gonna think that's a why if you're anesthetist anesthesiologist is telling you, you know Sometimes there's drug leads to be people being pregnant. You're gonna be like what just happened While I was unconscious Yikes, I hate that Justin. No, thank you. It's not That's probably why they're not saying anything That's not why it but ultimately the thing is Uh, this is a reminder to all humans who are of childbearing age who could bear children Yeah, um to ask questions. No matter how insane it sounds when you're being prescribed something Are you going through a medical treatment? I guess you got to ask every time you have to be there Contra indications I am on hormonal birth control How does this impact this treatment? Because I know as a as like a 20-something. I didn't know that antibiotics Uh, it was a counter indication for or has had um interactions with um Hormonal birth control. I didn't know that I found that out after the fact freaked out everything was fine But ultimately that was something that I didn't get told when I was prescribed the antibiotics Because I'm just expected to figure that out on my own. This is a really good opportunity to say Ask every time because the body is a system and things are connected that you could never think are connected You got to be your own advocate, which is a bummer, but here we are You playing me off now, this is the sound of anesthesia, uh working on a patient This is a sound of chlorophyll and this This is this week in science. Thank you so much for joining us for another fun filled science episode Focused on the oceans If you're loving what we're doing right now, give us a like and if you like us enough to give us a like Tell a friend and bring a friend next week We are canceling coveted this week. We're not going to talk about any coveted news. So it is time to Play us directly into that part of the show, which this week is all about these oceans and what lives in them it's time for Blair's animal corner with Blair I turned up music Oh Hey, how is that combination of ocean chlorophyll sounds and the Yeah, I don't know what's going on. It's all confused It's all weird oceans. Okay. I can do that again. Hold on folks. Don't we know this song well enough? Can't you sing it blur? I can know it's blairs animal corner with Blair And It's a world oceans day Blair's animal corner I'm gonna start by telling you all about ugly fish And how they need our help I love ugly fish. I like all the ugly ugly things If you love them, are they still ugly? I I guess probably huh anyway, um, according to a machine learning study. They are This is from the University of Montpellier, France pronounce that They asked 13 000 members of the public to rate the aesthetic attractiveness of 481 photographs of ray finned fishes In an online survey, then they use that data to train a neural network Then they use that neural network to generate predictions for additional 4400 photographs Featuring 2417 of the most encountered reef fish species to label them as ugly or not So the neural network decided if the fish was ugly or not What they found was that we we totally trust neural networks. Oh sure To be unbiased in these kinds of things, but yeah, okay A bright colorful fish with rounder bodies tended to be rated as the most beautiful Species that were ranked as more attractive Also tended to be less distinctive In terms of their ecological traits and evolutionary history So a really kind of more uniform group were considered pretty fish They all kind of had similar ecological roles Species listed on the iucn red list They as threatened or whose conservation status has not yet been evaluated Which just means they're really rare so they haven't been able to address that Had lower aesthetic values on average So that means there was a mismatch between aesthetic value ecological function and extinction vulnerability The pretty fish Were the ones that don't need our help and the ugly fish were the ones who do both by the number of them left And by how important they were To their ecosystem Interesting so that also means that it is likely that the species most in need of public support are least likely to receive them Are the pretty ones? I mean when I think of like the pretty fish I think of the ones that are living in the coral reefs and they're the ones that we have all the videos of And so they're the ones that the tourists are looking at but when it comes to like fishing We're we're fishing for the quote unquote ugly species Yes, and so that's another really important part is that those that are most Important to humans in fisheries also are considered more ugly So that that means generally the fish that are more important. Yes rockfish A lot of trout Yeah, I think you can look at trout and salmon and they they are very pretty in certain lights But they are not considered as pretty as for example clownfish or Surgeon fish unless you're hungry You're a pretty good looking fish to eat. Yeah, so so I mean Okay, I am I'm be fuddled And be mused that they have an attractiveness scale as any of this but we're talking about uniformity amongst fish that are surviving and A more diverse style of fish is the one that is Struggling generally speaking but also more important ecologically Okay Which would indicate that prior to humans that probably was not the case Yep But I guess I guess if you have a bunch of fish who were structurally similar they might also have Similar diet or similar habitat or similar similar similarness And so if there's enough of those to fill the niches then yeah, they're not as important So, I mean the problem with this is that it only looked at reef fish and the coral reef in general is an endangered habitat Yeah, okay, so it kind of impacts the scale of this study in any broad Niche-based conversations we could have that like the one that you're talking about It's kind of limited because they focused on reefs if we looked at the ocean as a whole. I'd agree with you there could be some more There could be some more conclusions we could draw But ultimately what this means is That there is a mismatch in the inherent value and the actual ecological value This is common in conservation It's the panda principle panda v snake, right panda v spider panda v shark All those situations Yeah, it's considered Cuter more attractive. What have you but you also think about how humans are hardwired and There's there's a weird How's a weird aspect of this where all of the Quote-unquote like beautiful fish look very similar you could probably look at some weird human naturey things about that in relation to Human on human beauty standards too. It's interesting. I don't know but ultimately want to be birds Yes, we like the pretty feathered birds. We like the nice colors. We wish we had all that Yeah, but so this world oceans day gives some love to the ugly fishes. That's all I ask I will I will there. Yeah You know who who loves fishes of all types? Who orders they like to eat them. They ought to eat them. Yeah University of Exeter wanted to look at asian short clawed otters and how they learn things from each other They gave them puzzle boxes containing familiar food and then they gave them unfamiliar natural prey The meat inside which was protected by hard outer shells. So there's two very different distinct scenarios You have you're used to the food inside But I want you to solve a puzzle to get to it And then here is a novel food source in a novel puzzle But it is natural so we can mimic what would happen in the wild, right? The otters watched each other To decide whether food was safe and desirable So they would watch one otter eat and go okay that that looks doable. That looks delicious. I'm going in But they would not copy The problem-solving skills from the otter they observed They would use their own wits not the example of others to figure out how to extract the items from the protection So basically what this means is that they have social learning But that it's limited in its nature They gave them five variations of a puzzle box each with a meatball Which was their familiar food the method to extract the food varied in each version And the natural prey were rainbow trout as a control They're not hard on the outside and then shore crabs and blue mussels There were 20 otters in the study 11 managed to extract the meat from all three types of natural prey but they Showed that they could learn how to do it they What really is interesting is that for conservation if you want to release an asian small clawed otter If you teach them To eat specific prey in the wild Via another otter they will they will take that up take it out to the wild and most likely Other otters will follow suit. So if you want to teach Otters to eat a new prey because their old prey is depleted for example You can do that, but you're not going to be able to teach them how to do it They have to figure that out on their own So it's really interesting that they mix it and they're not just learning everything from other otters They're like, I got to do some stuff with myself. Yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna work through this so that I know how to do it, but I can also watch you over there and Get some ideas Yeah, and you know, there's probably something to be said about the fact that they're carnivores their hunters they also compete over territory and they have quite the tool set they have amazing teeth and claws And so they they have to use all that to stay kind of evolutionarily fit So maybe it's a weird way to keep keep their skills kind of up Throughout this so that they don't get kind of, you know, used to the same thing. I don't know well, yeah, it's also it may it I mean having that kind of There's learning from others, but then, you know, so that habits can get passed down, but that it's not just habit and it's not just Only learned you can actually have flexibility to new situations Yeah, and so when something arises that the habit doesn't fit There's that resilience built into the system. Yeah Yeah, and weasels really are otters are in the weasel family and they're they're very good They're they're they're generalists. They will eat anything they can catch pretty much. So including humans. Yes, true Anyway, uh Last I want to talk about the Um unsung hero of the ocean Let's sing it How do you sing about kelp? I think I think he played it earlier. I think that was Anyway Geniuses Sorry, not sorry kelp they can help with ocean acidification. They can kelp with ocean acidification Um, they make sense. They're photosynthesizing so they convert carbon dioxide To oxygen So the more kelp there is the better for the ocean it is What this study from the stony brook university school of main Our marine and atmospheric sciences tells us is that the presence of kelp significantly reduces ocean acidification nearby Which actually has a direct impact on bivalves like clams and oysters So all three of these things kelp Clams and oysters are aquaculture items So this study shows essentially that by diversifying aquaculture you can help your own crop By um protecting the shell fisheries from ocean acidification And um Of course, you know it offers a second crop that you can you can harvest and sell as well. So, um The the kelp that they looked at is actually called sugar kelp is the Is the common name for it and that's used in food. It's not it's not like nori or sea weed But it's um, it's used as ingredients in foods like like soups and other processed foods That's where we get things like carrageenan And it's a yeah, it's a sugar alternative too. So yeah, it's anyway. Yeah It's a thickener. Yep. You're totally right. And so um, the The kelp in oyster farms Has a direct impact on The the bivalves that are directly in and around that kelp The one's just a little bit farther away had larger impacts from ocean acidification So this is uh, this is a real Strong they did it in the lab first and then they they tested it out in real aquaculture facilities and so It's yeah, it's a great proof of concept that that the kelp really has a positive impact on the environment and algae is all over the ocean Have a huge impact because they're Uh, they're the primary producers So they're like the trees of the ocean and so um, their impact They reduce ocean acidification. They feed The the primary consumers Who then feed the secondary consumers and blah blah blah right, you know your food web But um This is the kind of this is this is proof that protecting kelp protects the oceans And one of the things I was thought of I thought about recently was the the sea otters speaking of otters in Monterey and how when the sea otters were hunted out it actually destroyed the The kelp forests because without sea otters to eat the urchins the urchins over ate the kelp and then the kelp kind of collapsed and that changed the landscape and so We called the sea otters the keystone species But in a way You could look further down the line and say the kelp was right because the kelp was creating an environment an entire ecosystem The direct chemistry of the ocean around it There was a there's a story from a couple weeks ago that uh, I don't think anybody brought but it was about I think I think might have been like michigan or something They have this I plan to get rid of a lot of the algae clear up the water And then they've done some modeling and said yeah, actually though these like terrible cyanobacteria will take over the lake It'll become a You'll get rid of the toxic algae with the toxic bacteria will take its place because it's been keeping it down so Boy when you mess with a with a biome in any way that's been established You really don't know what you're doing Right, but it's the the cool thing about this is um, just like when you think about farming crops on land Crop rotation is important diversification is important because you don't want to deplete resources and you you don't want to um Have all these kind of detrimental impacts of uh, monoculture The same is true for aquaculture and this is a really good proof of that that you want to have diversification of your crops in aquaculture as well For a bunch of reasons, but this is a really big one if we promoted the the the growing of kelp in aquaculture as a general rule no matter what type of fish or shellfish was being Raised in that area it could clean the water and reduce ocean acidification from The and it might actually for for a lot of fish species I mean not necessarily the ones where they aquaculture them out in open ocean But if you're doing aquaculture in shore Areas that have a lot of the that would normally have kelp these species that are there are probably Going to be feel safer. They'll have lower stress hormones. They might experience fewer behavioral Disruptions and have a whole different way of interacting with each other if you have a more naturalistic Environment for that aquaculture. That is a really good point. I didn't even think about yes So that's yeah, absolutely So this is a good reminder that you know, we're in an open system. It's not a closed system Even when you do aquaculture Out on land that water has to go somewhere So if you can reduce reduce acidification in that water, whether it's part of a An open system or a closed system that's going to impact the world as a whole so more kelp Kelp the oceans with kelp That was Justin's brain on interpretive pants This is this week in science if you are enjoying the show and I hope that you are please head over to twist.org And click on the patreon link head over there to support us in an ongoing fashion To keep this show going our listeners do support us and keep keep us doing this show every week It's really you the listener who makes this show possible through your support on patreon 10 dollars a month and more We will thank you by by name at the end of the show And uh, if you're not interested in patreon, just remember we do have zazzle as well There's a lot of cool merchandise out there twist t-shirts and other things that proceeds go to Help the show So all of that We really thank you because we can't do this without you. Thank you for your support All right, Justin. You got some stories for us Yeah, there's a new paper in the quarterly journal of economics Which is not the sort of thing I normally pay very close attention to this is published by oxford university press They found that taking away welfare from children When they reach the age of 18 greatly increases the chances that they will face criminal justice charges and subsequent years so There's supplemental uh a security income in the united states is a program that would provide payments or does provide payments to people With disabilities who have low income. These are uh children qualify for the program based on their disability status and their parents low income and assets until 1996 when there was a conservative resurgence of political power in the united states Children automatically continued to qualify for the adult program when they turned 18 Uh 1996 they phased that out. So when you turned 18, they used the adult model Which was I guess more restrictive and about 40 of children who had been receiving benefits when they turned 18 No longer were So by comparing records of these children Uh in the differing outcomes they found that there was an increase of 20 number of criminal charges over the next two decades and an annual likelihood of incarceration of 60 percent Which is pretty amazingly high And uh most of the crimes that these kids would end up getting into Had to do with what's called income generating crimes things like theft burglary fraud forgery and prostitution and again these are children who went from the outset had uh conditions Mental and behavioral conditions That qualified them for these programs. So what the uh economists did here was they looked at what did it cost? In the increased crime and the increased incarceration versus having just given them the supplemental income Turns out if you just look at the cost of the crime the courts the policing And the incarceration it's about the same But then you're taking away You're not including all of the other things like well if they had a better start and were getting jobs and paying taxes They would have actually been adding to It's not opposed to it. So if the outcome is you want less taxes and more efficient government better outcomes for individuals Lower crime rates better jobs better pay better economic status allowing young people with disabilities a safety net That that can be part of your solution It's one of those also Yeah, it sounds like it a pretty easy solution. I mean, but it's the It's the whole part of you know in the united states people have been arguing against welfare You don't want on it. You don't want the nanny state. You don't you know, but this kind of data does Yeah to help support how welfare how support can Keep people from going down the path of crime because it maintains their ability to do the things that You know, they don't feel like they you don't feel like you need to do crime, right? Well, there's that I can feed my family I can have friends the things that aren't in this study and it just as a for instance Whether you're talking about general assistance, welfare's specific ones like the ssi supplements like this food stamps 100% of the money that you put towards that as your government in your community Stay very local to where those dollars are spent. Yeah Those are staying here If you give a corporation the tax incentive thing or whatever and they're gonna build a bigger factory overseas None of that money is coming. None of that is helping anybody Any of these general assistance and then say say you even buy into the Kool-Aid that there's some people who just don't want to work and are willing to live on that Safety net money that bare minimum amount of money Fine That's less people in the workforce. You know what that means more job opportunities for you that they're wanting to work And it means you're probably gonna be able to get a better income because there's less people who are just taking any Job to survive and are willing to be paid anything because they absolutely need it just not to die Right like there's there's benefits beyond even just the peripheral, but this is disabled children Turning it to young adults and getting cut off by the safety net. That's ridiculous Anyway, but even from you know from the just from the the basic argument that Maintaining welfare as these these people become go into adulthood maintaining welfare Reduces crime People would like less crime in your local area welfare programs Help with that. I don't want to pay for it. Oh, well That's the conclusion. I'm taking from this. See that sounds like a very obvious path forward lord Lord, uh crime and lower, uh lower taxes. They actually they'll go hand in hand And to a better society so it leads me to my next story, which is What you believe in Might kill you quicker. Oh, no What you believe, uh, actually politically determines when you will die This is uh, in my case, uh, the political landscape is full of issues We've got the or at least concepts that are that are called issues Usually they're not actually the issues. They're not having nothing to do a policy There are more things that people have been coerced to be for or against without having to look any further into it Often these concepts are built, uh to generate donor engagement Uh while there may actually be issue of policy somewhere down the line in the rabbit hole somewhere politics is Often not seen very clearly in terms of the outcomes like we're talking about just now but the outcomes of of the government shutting down A welfare program and then ending up paying for it. Anyway, right If you just look at outcomes, which is what we should be doing We should ignore all redder whenever they've got politicians on there talking about a policy They should ignore everything that they're saying and look at the outcomes of when those policies have been in place before We have had plenty of time to do this so This could be a conversation about guns States with least gun regulation have the most gun deaths. So if you're talking about safety, you should say i'm against safety That's why i'm against gun regulation. It could be uh social safety nuts, which we were just talking about It could be about wealth inequality education worker safety Any number of issues, but this is a study climate climate change. Absolutely This is a recent study that looked at one outcome mortality and correlated it with Red and blue voting leaning counties conservative versus liberal democrat versus republican So 20 years study looked at that correlation found that between 2001 2019 mortality rates Decreased by 22 percent in democratic counties In that same time that's significant and they decreased in republican counties too by 11 percent That's a 50 more decrease in death in blue counties nationwide So that's interesting from the beginning to the end though There seems to be an increase in this thing from the beginning to the end the gap between them increased 541 percent What? Yeah So they they started actually 20 years ago. They weren't that far apart the red Can government control there is the blue control control there is some of the things that we've added since then Like uh the affordable care act Are have been rejected and not implemented in some of those red communities But they have impacted health coverage and so mortality in places that have enacted it Yeah, yeah, and that's one one of the things there's a bunch of factors involved So if we're looking for so we have this better technology. We're curing diseases all the things we're getting we're getting more and more access to It's happening at half the rate Uh that those increases in uh decreasing mortality the decreases in mortality are happening at half the rate and Red controlled area so which if your politics and policies are outcomes is that you can say this There's widespread support amongst republican leaning american communities For heart disease cancer chronic lung disease diabetes influenza pneumonia kidney disease drug overdose and suicide That's what therefore That's what those policies that they so I can understand I can understand then why some of those communities might be very anti-government If everything they they don't believe in their government because it's having terrible outcomes for them locally This is correlation I will say Yes, yeah, they didn't go into causation in the study. They look so it's interesting And I think it's worth talking about but I do just want to call out the fact that it is Correlation so there there could be other confounding variables Like red states might be more likely to have Other problems or red counties. Excuse me that could impact mortality Hey, yeah, yeah, you know what? That's true because a lot of those states also have uh less restrictive gun laws and much higher rates of gun There are many factors that can go there. There are many factors that go into these kinds of things for sure I think the point that you brought up the the american Care act the the aca Being enacted in various places that probably has had a major impact, especially in that time period And toward the end of that time period is significantly It is good that they stopped measuring it after 2019 though because the pandemic Those years kind of throw everything into the interest You have to do a specific covid study on those same parameters, right? You can't you can't lump that in with everything else. You'd find probably similar results But I do also wonder if it is if it is the ideological attacks on science that are making it People dismiss advice from their doctors. I'm wondering if it is the amount of private Private hospitals versus public health programs, you know There's also an issue just in with a lot of issues red states and red counties often being more rural And so health care is usually farther away That and they did look at this and actually of the red Red counties the more rural they were the worst the the health outcomes were They were actually the worst makes sense. Yeah We don't want it to make sense, but it does make sense. Yeah, I I guess But this was also a way of doing sort of a a broad look at it because it would be if you tried to point to Just the amount of red meat being served And a diner on a given, you know, like drilling down on this will take some time But there's a pretty clear pretty clear pattern mortality rates are higher under under republican government Well, moving away from mortality rates and political beliefs. I'm going to take us into the land of our guts Taking us to our I have I've got guts. I'm going to take us into our guts right now. Okay. Um researchers just published in cell host and microbe their study of Some metabolites these are metabolic products of bacteria In the gut they started this understanding that in the microbiome of humans in the intestines There's an increase as people age with a certain type of bacteria called Ruminocoxaceae C-A-C-A-C-A Ruminocoxaceae I think I got close there Anyway, it increases and it creates an iso amylamine That's its metabolite. This is the thing that it produces And in elderly people because there's more of the Ruminocoxaceae you have more of the IAAA And it was like what's going on there? We know that some things can affect the brain from the gut and oh look IAAA can cross the blood brain barrier. So what could it possibly be doing in the brain? Well, they couldn't do all the stuff in the human brain. So this is where they took it to mice and they Looked to see what happened when they grew cultures of neuronal cells and put IAAA in it and what happened and they're like, oh IAAA binds a promoter region This is the part of a gene That tells it to get transcribed So it makes it makes a gene active and makes it turn into a protein if it if it's going to get translated So when IAAA binds to a particular promoter region in a gene for the p53 regulator what ends up happening is Instructions to cause cell death get printed in the brain's neurons and so what they discovered is that When they gave IAAA and fed it to mice those mice Had cognitive decline The IAAA is going from the brain. I mean from the gut into the brain telling the brain cells to kill themselves and then a cognitive decline occurs they used a compound to block the IAAA in the gut of the mice and it blocked the cognitive decline So now I want whatever that compound is in my breakfast cereal But it is a fascinating a fascinating study because they've taken this whole pathway from Um from basic the the metabolite in the gut into the brain and pinned it to actually leading to programmed cell death of neurons So things that are gut as we get older the bacteria Old people gut get bacteria that make bad stuff travels to the brain kills the brain we go I don't like that. No, we don't want that. Let's make that stop But but the the cognitive decline was only in mice. It wasn't in people So it maybe doesn't work the same way in people, but it probably does I don't know. I feel like that happens when I have like, uh, two double doubles from in and out like back to back I feel like there's something from my gut that's like trying to kill my brain. So it doesn't happen again It's very possible. It's like don't ever do this again. My brain is like, oh, that was good But then I can't move for a little while Yeah But anyway, this we now Potentially have a target because we know this metabolite we can either target the bacteria themselves We can target the metabolite in our guts before it hits the blood-brain barrier Two potential targets that could potentially benefit the aging brain So this could could lead good places Blair who wants to be living forever. Yeah, it's does this mean that um A transplant would help or no? fecal transplant Oh Maybe if it I mean the question is does would the fecal transplant fix whatever problems are leading to The change in the bacterial composition in the first place Like it would would that just be short term or would it be a long term thing? Yeah Yeah, it might just not be generating the The IAA whatever it was it was getting up there and doing the bad stuff So I would just have to do a wipe I'd have to go on an intense course of antibiotics and and take a poop hill Like not just any poop hill like Dr. Justin's not a real doctor poop hills six months. That sounds doable, right? That sounds terrible sounds terrible Sounds I think you could do it about the same length of doing an antibiotic. I think it's like a 10 day program Yeah, yeah, but you have to do it over and over again to prevent your I don't know I don't know I don't know because it's not like if you knock out your native population and then filled it up with somebody else's native population It'll still age It'll still age. I mean, but if the if it's the gut if it's the gut lining the the gaps between the cells leading to uh leaky gut And other you know, there are certain things that change as you get older that aren't necessarily Because of the microbial population it's all things It's a system Blair. It's a systems question Yes, it is Okay, well, let's get away from uh guts. Have you ever thought about Fung guys? Yes. I mean eyes on funguses Oh, no fungus with eyes No That I have uh not Right, whoever thinks of a mushroom or you know what with eyes No, well they can sense light, right? Can't find good sense light Yes, so many fungus species are capable of sensing light. This is very helpful to them because they are Um, then able to sense where photosynthetic organisms that they end up feeding on, you know The detritus that's left over from those photosynthetic organisms. So the fungus being able to sense light. It's very ecologically Important for it to be able to do that. But the question is how long ago did these abilities start? Well, some researchers just publishing in current biology Published their study a light sensing system in the common ancestor of the fungi They were specifically looking at a particular system that they've discovered in one Zuosporic fungus that's called blastocladiola emersonii Now this blastocladiola It has an eye spot like organelle So it's got lipids and it's got so fatty like kind of fatty tissue And this is a very different light sensing organ But it's like this this fungus basically has an eye spot It's not just light sensing all over it has an eye spot and this eye spot is called the cyclop See what they did there scientists. Oh scientists. Yeah. Yes Anyway, the cyclop protein In this particular Fungus, they're like, oh, did this just arise on its own or is this something that you know, where did it come from? Anyway, so they did a big comparison with a whole bunch of different fungal species and They determined that It's not just because this one species is the only species we've found with an eye spot The common ancestor of all funguses Had all the genes necessary for eye spots. So all funguses could potentially have eyes But they don't Why don't all funguses have eyes this should now be the question Well, it's because uh long time ago the great great great grand papa fungus Looked around but it was before there was anything else to look at. So is that what do I need these things for? Nothing to look at i'm in the dirt Yeah, I mean that's pretty much it a lot of funguses The only time you see them is when they pop out into the light. Many of them are in the dark. So Having an eye spot for many funguses isn't necessarily appropriate Yeah, anyway eyes it could have happened on funguses Coulda And then my final final study because I gotta give us some really fun good news to go out on this 90 minute episode So, you know how the earth's magnetic poles are supposed to be flipping Yeah, and we've heard lots and lots of stories over the last what 20 years that we've been doing the show that Scientists are like the earth's poles. They're reversing. We're gonna have a pole switch pole Flop flip flop. Sure. Sure Yeah, yeah, well, um new study out of the proceedings of the national academy of sciences Looking at a bunch of data going back about 9,000 years Uh, they go nah. Nope. I think that all of the magnetic anomalies that we're seeing in the south Atlantic right now that have been making everybody go. Whoa magnetic flip flop. It's coming They said no that these anomalies quote-unquote are normal We're just noticing. We're like anomalies Well, the also the magnetic flipping thing does happen But it isn't it like it happens Every 200,000 years 200,000. Yeah 200,000 years. Okay So, I mean, but it's not completely regular. It does happen And it could happen But what these researchers are saying is that the evidence that people are using to say that A flip is coming Is not necessarily evidence That a flip is coming That it's kind of normal for that area of the south Atlantic looking at the data that they've seen Yes Blair anomalies Yes, you're welcome All right, I'll never sell those reverse compasses now now, but uh They predict that if we're around for the next 300 years, we will see that the south Atlantic Anomaly will probably disappear This is their conclusion. So we only had this hypothesis this new conclusion That's now a hypothesis that we have to wait to observe. We got to we have to wait 300 years So patience on this one for twist to be reporting on it It's 300 years. Yeah, what would that be? That'd be like episode Uh 15,000 Episode how did we go this long? Oh, we must have discovered the secret of longevity Blair you'll you will live forever if that's the case. Did we make it to the end? We did We do it. Do we get here? I think we're there Should I play more um ocean music for Justin? Give me one more. Hey, look on your face You want we just we just want one more that's all right just one more Yes, yes One more How about oh wait, did we see we already did this one? Didn't we let's go back to the Bering Sea Oh, sure utter nonsense Complete and total nonsense Shout out to fada. Thank you so much for your help with social media and show notes and all of the good stuff Uh, and yes the descriptions on youtube gourd and identity four and our lore and others Thanks for keeping the chat rooms a happy wonderful place to be identity four. Thank you for recording the show Rachel, thank you for your editing and other amazing assistance And yes Thank you to our patreon sponsors Thank you, Teresa Smith James Schaefer Richard Badge Kent Northcote Rick Loveman Pierre Velazade Ralphie Figueroa John Ratnaswamy Carl Kornfeld Karen Tazi Woody MS Chris Wozniak Dave Bunn-Vigard Chef Dad Hal Snyder Donathan Styles aka Don Stylo John Lee Ali Koffengorov Sharma Reagan dot Derek Schmidt Don Mundis Steven Albron Darryl Meischach Stu Pollock Andrew Swanson. Did I just read the same names over and over again? Anyway, I'm going Fred S104 Sky Luke Paul Ronevich Kevin Brewden noodles jack Brian Carrington map base vote Beto for Texas John McKee Greg Riley Marqueson flow gene tele A. 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You can email kiki at kirsten at thisweekinscience.com Justin at twist minion at gmail.com or me blair at blairbads at twist.org Just be sure to put twist Twis in the service line or your email it'll get caught into that cosmic flow of sound and experience and movement Definitely not an ugly fish all complaints about the show should be sent to us be at twitter Where we are at twist science at dr kiki at jackson fly and at blairs menagerie We love your feedback if there's a topic you'd like us to cover or address a suggestion for an interview A haiku that comes to you in the night. Please let us know We'll be back here next week and we hope you'll join us again for more Great science news And if you've learned anything on the show remember It's all in your head My advice This week's science is coming your way So everybody listen to what I say I use the scientific method for all that it's worth and I'll broadcast my opinion all over the air Cause it's this week in science This week in science This week in science Science This week in science This week in science Science Science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news That what I say may not represent your views But I've done the calculations and I've got a plan And We have come to the end of another episode Of this week in science. I gotta bow. I gotta go. Uh, you gotta go. It was fun Great show I'll see y'all next week Will you be back in denmark next week? Uh No No, maybe maybe not No, but maybe No, but maybe No, but maybe okay I'm not scheduled to be back, but uh, I might go back sooner. It's getting hot and I don't like it At all It's Davis in the summer Not nice. It's not it's not okay It's really not okay How many years did I subject myself to this? But every time I left I left to some place that like rained most of the year Yeah Or was near a beach Except for the period of time when you lived in la No, no, I was I was on venice beach. I was right. I got at least the coastal breeze through the whole time Yeah, the uh the Or the I was up in humble With the tropical rainforest that is the pacific northwest I mean, that's a cool place to be. Yep. That's great. Uh, you know the one place that uh, it's too hot for me is Is where I am right now I gotta go I gotta go change my my socks I gotta go put them in front of the direct because I was wearing socks during the show and they're now soaking wet Wow It's from No, it's from sweat. Yeah Oh Okay, okay. All right. Well, just wants to go arrow to socks. I'm gonna go to bed Arrow that dirty laundry Uh, bye Justin. Okay, you're gonna head out as vel Let's do it. Yes, everybody's doing it Wow, this is the everyone's got sweaty socks, I guess Yeah, that's not me barefoot, baby Barefoot, baby All right, um, is there anything We got you for two more weeks, right before you Yeah, okay Yeah, there are major major things afoot in portland really I will talk about them later when they are more confirmed Okay major things fun afoot Good Yes But then yeah two more weeks and then I'm off for a long vacation And the longest vacation I will have taken since I had Kai That's great. Good for you. You deserve it It's time. Thank you Yes, it's time to go do it all right, um Yeah, so we have a couple more weeks to talk about things. Yeah, but you know what everyone out there Twists on public television. Oh, that would be awesome. Oh pb. Let's talk. Come on But yes, I believe That Blair is tired. There are things that Everyone here who does the show needs to go Do like sleep? I think yeah I need to go take care of some things also what is happening with this world 10 o'clock And we're out Well, at least I mean it's it's less than a tight two hours right now. Yes. Yeah, exactly If we hold it. Yeah, it'll be easy to end it down. All right. Good night, kiki Or say good night Blair. Say good night kiki. I did it wrong Good night kiki. Good night, everyone. Thank you all for joining us We do appreciate it so much that you spend your wednesdays with us. Thank you for joining us with the science Give us a like before you leave wherever you are And uh, make sure to share it with friends and we will see you next week With more more fun and more science, right? Let's bring it tonight was a fun show It was good. Very fun. Yeah, it was good. Good night, everyone. Stay safe. Stay healthy and stay curious We'll see you on the flip side