 Hey, good afternoon everybody time steward here. I'm with Liz Trotter our guest today's Joe Gelderman and this is smart business moves Yeah You know what it is We have a hurricane going on and Joe and I are working under adverse conditions Are you both are you both in the the middle of that? It may be affecting it for real. Yeah, we're in the cone. We're in the cone of destruction We are we are in the storm, but I don't think either one of us are at any immediate risk I think there's some people in Florida that would would tell you that it was severe I think there's some folks in Florida that got hit hard Once it's come on work Yeah, it's it's kind of you know, I'm in Charleston. It's kind of tropical force type stuff some trees will fall over Maybe lights will flicker. There's some flooding, but it always floods here. So You know, nobody's evacuating or anything like that. I Couldn't evacuate anyway because I had to do smart business moves Go ahead Joe you're at risk I'm at risk of maybe losing power at some point and And a lot of flooding, but that's about it. I'm I'm just outside of Atlanta. So We're getting a ton of rain But we've been getting a ton of rain for the last month and a half So a lot of trees are are starting to fall because of all of that rain You know, you're in a really good position Joe because if you get sick of talking to us today You could just power off and we'll be like, oh I Can just say hey Sorry had to go I've already set the stage for that Okay, so y'all better stay put because I'm not staying here all by myself I'm going to have severe sun stroke. That's gonna be my excuse All right, so let's get started Last 30 minutes for you Liz. Oh I've had worse All right, let's let's try and just maybe one or two minutes Real quick wanted to share with y'all we are talking about hiring today Improving your odds Joe is going to share some great stuff there and for those of you that haven't heard about the Orion You'll be sure about that specifically for the end of the show and you're not going to want to miss that All right, but for ISS a some things specific to hiring are some Discounts that you can get and where are we? We are at. We'll use the same thing mom dog Peter Dot is a dot com although they don't like my my explanations for this I Am going to drop the URL chat so everybody could just click on it rather than Try to decipher mom dog Peter. All right. I got it. All right. So what are a couple of things on here? I know that they had Right there. We have some insurance type things that you can get discounts on for your people that can help you with hiring That's much better. Thank you So health insurance then on vision life insurance So if you're in a situation where you know your people are not coming to work for you because you don't offer insurance Check check this out and see what kind of discounts might be available for you Was there anything else specific in here? Maybe on additional benefits? Virtual medicine that's kind of interesting the the whole thing. I guess you just call and talk to a doctor and it's easy and it's it's cheap Investments I guess you could set up 401k plans or student or student loan abatement Huh, I'm not sure That would be different than a education tax-free savings account. I would guess do you know what that is Joe? I do not know what that is Okay Additional benefits holy cow There's where so I know you can get some discounts on background checks some discounts on some HR stuff I don't want to go into detail here, but if you are a member of ISSA then please get on here and check out some of these valuable Benefits that you may not be availing yourself of and if you're not a member Also, check out this site because there are a lot more benefits available than people even know about Thanks, Tom Yes, important We really believe that Being a member of the industry's only trade, you know non-profit trade organizations important and we like talking about it Joe, how are you? It's been a while. You know, I mean I've we've met before You know, I've been introduced I've been introduced to you by your father who's a gentleman that I have a lot of admiration and respect for we've worked together For a long time How how is bill? How's he doing? Wonderful he is living his He is living his best life as a retired person right now He has moved into a Community neighborhood with with only 55 plus people in it. So he's playing bachi ball and going to concerts and going to casinos and going on cruises with all of these people and and all of that so he is he is extremely happy and Doing really really well Yeah, you know you said 55 plus I'm thinking that sounds like a small community. Oh, wait a minute Thank you I could be a candidate I'm so happy to hear about Bill He has always been great for him for sure. Yeah, that's awesome All right, well, what are we going to talk about today specifically? So I think Just improving your odds with hiring right? Sorry for the lag Tom and I tried to figure it out a little bit before we came on but it seems to still be persisting but Hiring in general and and improving your odds with hiring in the different ways that that you can have the right mindset and The things that you can do to improve Your odds in terms of Keeping people right because one of the things that I continue to is that Hiring you know hiring has been an issue Big I mean hiring is always an issue, right? But it's been a big issue since COVID whether it's getting candidates or Getting candidates to show up for the interview or answer the phone when you call them So it seems to have turned a little bit to People are showing up and people are actually taking the job To people are leaving within two weeks, right? So the retention part is also a big part of what? the main focus of What we do is with the Orion just in terms of making sure you're hiring the right people, right? Because retention is great and you can put a ton of attention Into all of these things you're doing to build the culture and to build To do all of these different things to retain people if you're not hearing people It doesn't matter. You're just spinning your wheels So so Joe, I guess just to kind of get a start See if either of you respond just because of the lag To get us started here. Let's back up just for a moment If you could tell us a little bit about yourself and you mentioned Orion You could then go ahead and we could talk a little bit about your business and what you do but I know that you've got a Very interesting, you know background prior to to Orion that I think would be interesting to share with our audience Yeah, so I I actually worked in professional sports for 15 years Before I joined my father who has recently retired and and I've taken over the company And for the last 10 years that I was in professional sports I worked for a professional hockey team For the last 10 years that I was there I did all of the hiring so I I Hired everybody from our ticket sellers to our Accountant and CFO everything you can think right so I did On the other side, so I'm not just talking about So when the goalie gives up the losing goal, do you get in trouble for hiring the wrong goalie? That's not hiring that's recruiting. No, I don't I didn't hire the the players Yeah, I just hired the front office staff. Oh, okay Then the then the work Like the workers like the so I didn't have anything to do with the hockey side. It was just the front office side but I've been on on that side, right? So I've I've had to hire I was hiring people for 10 years and I used Objective information I used the TTI reports that that Liz uses so Frequently now That's what I used when I was hiring people The disc reports is is how she refers to them, but I used the disc reports when I was hiring people there for the 10 years, right? And and I did use some of the Orion reports for some of the positions that we had most of them weren't were more the TTI disc report was was What I should have used for that But I was a user of these before I before I joined my father and and and joined the steering group So I've been with the steering group now for six years And have been utilizing the Orion to work with with the residential cleaning industry and and pet industries and home health care industries and nanny industry the people that are in home Service providers because they all have the same issues, right? You're sending people into other people's homes unsupervised so you You need to know what you're gonna get out of this person because they're not it's not Wal-Mart where you're gonna be able to Watch them every day and see what they do every day. You're sending them out there on their own So you need to be able to trust what they're gonna be able to do you need to be able to have some faith and what they're gonna be able to do because at the end of the day you have a Moral if not legal obligation to make sure that the people that you're sending into other people's homes are Not gonna steal from them are not gonna show up and and be high And you mentioned Orion could you explain a little bit about what you mean when you say assessments and what is the Orion? So the Orion is an 80 question opinion survey that is very popular within the residential cleaning industry and And you would give this to your candidates and they would answer these 80 Statements with their opinion and I don't want to scare you off by saying it's 80 questions because it generally takes people about 12 or 13 minutes So it's not gonna it's not something you're Asking them to sit there and take an hour to do right? But when they complete it you you It was yeah, it's always been any questions When they complete it you get a report immediately Tom if you want to just click on that second one there on you know I you on the website You get a report immediately that gives you Some scores on them based on how They answered the questions, right? So the first thing is the validity which tells you whether or not they were being truthful That's probably the most important thing in there, right? It it It will tell you based on the pattern of the person's answers It will tell you if they were trying to deceive the assessment and if they were essentially lying or trying to hide their true opinions from you But then after that it goes into all of these these other things right supervisory attitude, which would mean Is that somebody that will? Follow your policies and procedures when they're out there on their own or Are they the kind of person that's going to do it the way that they think it should be done? All right, so that's a big one especially for people that use individuals But it also can be a big one for people that use teams because if you put Two people together that are below average supervisory attitude Go ahead. All right. I'm gonna try and get my hand up there. So I don't keep talking over you Joe So when it says below average does that mean below average risk? No, that means there that person is below average and supervisory attitude, right? So that means in this case that means that person is the kind of person that would do things the way that they think it should Be done rather than the way that you've trained them to do it and rather that Then the way that you have set your standards for your company. All right so below average supervisory attitude is one of the things that we recommend that The users of this eliminate a candidate based on because if a candidate is low below average Supervisory attitude then they're the kind of person that you know, you can train them for two months if you want But once they're on their own or once they're out there with an individual team member, you know One other person unless that's a really strong person. That's gonna hold them accountable They're gonna do it the way that they think it should be done and they're gonna be more likely to cut corners and And not really hold hold your standards to heart I can definitely see how this is going to be. I I mean It's obvious how valuable this would be to know in advance of hiring someone Right. All of these though, but when I'm looking at all of these Joe, I'm thinking to myself Huh? Which ones do I know? No work at no I wouldn't yeah, you definitely wouldn't one hire this person for sure. I Mean, there's there's big ones that we always, you know, whenever somebody signs up to use it You know, we we do a training session with them and talk about which which are the main ones that we would look out for In supervisory attitude being below average there is definitely one of them, right? Below our high risk for workplace drug use is another one of the big ones because that would say that that person is very likely to show up for Work high or do drugs? For work Validated individually Nobody The call today I can make my chair do it. Oh my gosh, of course, okay When I came on to the call today, my head was like this and I said, oh my gosh y'all. I'm so high today So now they're harassing me. I'm not actually high Look All right, so but seriously When you're talking about the ones to worry about Joe, I'm looking at this list The only one that I could see maybe not worrying about would be customer service if I'm going to put them in vacant units And I'm going to put you in an empty house. I'm not worried about your customer service But aren't the rest of these all really really important Maybe long-term important employment. They are Pretty great, right So the drug use one so they're all they're all validated individually, right? The drug use one is over 93 percent accurate So if if somebody's high risk like this person It would say that they're 93 likely to Show up for work high on something or use drugs while they're working The theft one is 92 accurate. So That would say high risk there would say that they're 92 likely to steal from either you or your clients and And then in the residential cleaning world most of the time that's going to be your clients, right? It's a lot easier to steal from them when they're in their homes unsupervised than it is to steal from you The prospects for long-term employment that you brought up That one is Essentially saying do they see value in creating a relationship with you as an employer Or are they the kind of person that thinks they're going to get ahead in the world faster If they just keep jumping around from job to job, right? That's not one that we usually tell people to eliminate based on if everything else was good um, but it is one that and You know, I think this is really important. It is one that I would say You need it it should it should trigger Response in your head to make sure that you're checking their references and to make sure that you're Confirming the dates of their previous work history, right? People know that if they tell you They've had 12 jobs in the last 18 months the chances of you hiring them are slim to none All right, so when they're filling out that application If that's the case they're they're maybe put two on there and say they were at each one for nine months Or maybe put one on there and say they were there for 18 months um So just making sure that you confirm the dates of their previous work history that they gave you Um, it's going to go a long ways with those people that are below average for prospects for long-term employment Okay, I see carol has a question here for you joe and then the How do you evaluate the accuracy of the questions versus the actual outcomes? So that is way above my pay grader expertise, right? so Orion is a company that's been around for about 25 years and there was lawyers and there's lawyers and and statisticians and um psychologists that are involved in in Creating the assessment and adapting the assessment when it needs to be adapted And continuing to make sure it's legal which which may be the most important part, right? But they have done On extensive research and and before it could get legalized. They did extensive studies with different companies and things like that Uh to make sure that the questions were valid and that the questions were measuring what was wanting to be measured And they had enough data and and provided enough data to make it legalized to to make The fact that you know if somebody is below average and in prospects for long-term employment that It was it was legal and and there was data behind it to show that they were below average Gosh, I didn't even think of that initially because I can see how You would really have to be on top of that or people could easily say. Hey, I'm being profiled here I'm being There's bias against me as a human and they have no idea about this. Wow. Okay So is there is there not to go off for many years Not to go off too far, you know on a tangent, but I know a lot of times companies will kind of create their own Assessments, if you will is there any risk in that? I mean Because we're we're not Statisticians and and the parties right Yeah, I mean, you know at the end of the day, I I would say there is I mean, I know people people do it I would say that that if Anybody ever gets sued for doing it They would have a tough time in court, right? When you're using the something like the Orion that is valid and and has been Verified and is EEOC compliant and all of that There's never going to be any legal issues, right? If you're creating your own There are going to be issues right people can can claim discrimination people can claim that They were profiled because of this this or this Or if you're using someone else's I guess what I'm hearing is it would be a good idea to ask the question You know, has this been validated and I suspect joe if we Asked you to and we're not but there's some type of legal document that goes behind this that You know the Orion people can demonstrate that it's been normal. Yeah, why is then it's Without bias We actually have a 287 page manual on all of the All of the Research they've done and all of the different studies they did and all of that Let's pull it on Please don't share that The viewership would go to zero All right So along those lines The the safety and risk avoidance one at the bottom That one only was added about 10 years ago and it was added because Walmart was uh a big user of Orion and they said they were having a huge issue with workers comp claims with people getting hurt at work or also People doing things that caused injuries to their customers so the Orion folks the statisticians and the lawyers and the psychologists got together and Came up with these different questions to try out and After about two years. So they were doing they were giving all of these questions and assessments to The new hires, but they weren't making any decisions based on them. They were just tracking them You know how they did whether there was any injury claims that came from them whether it was internal or external injuries And after two years They looked back at it and an overwhelming number of them were High risk for safety and risk avoidance the people that ended up causing the injuries Whether it was they hurt themselves or they did something that was Stupid that ended up hurting a customer The an overwhelming number of them were high risk for safety and risk avoidance So that is where the research came in for the safety and risk avoidance because they had all they had tracked it at all with walmart and The the numbers were were Overwhelming enough that it became legalized for them to to use this And one of the things that you mentioned joe was the 93 accuracy and then also 92 accuracy do all of the Different things that you're measuring here During the different behaviors. Do they all all I guess it's not behaviors. These are Attitudes, what are they? did I think I know what you said, but I'm not sure So I'll answer it based on what I think you said Because you broke up big time. So it may be me because it is super windy here. So They all do have their own they all are validated individually So they all do have their own Accuracy right the lowest is customer service and that's one of the reasons why we always tell people Customer service is not one that we would ever eliminate somebody based on and customer service is 72 percent But what workplace drug use is 93 theft with 92 What's included in customer service? Like what are some ideas of what? You are So customer service is actually not just about the customer facing side of things. It's more about understanding that the The job that they do is going to reflect upon you as a business owner and And be able to maintain them as a client for you as a business owner, which in turn ultimately means Them continuing to have a job, right? So it's about them being able to kind of Look outside their Perfect job description and see things that may need to be done And do them All right So somebody that's below average customer service is likely to want to stick Right to the job description and do Exactly what the job description says so if the job description that they think they have says when you're dusting blinds You just dust the blinds And it doesn't say You also have to open up the blinds and turn them over and dust the other side of the blinds They're just going to dust the front of the blinds because that's what the job description says, right? When you're above average customer service you're the kind of person that's going to understand those kinds of things you're going to be able to look at the bigger picture more efficiently or more often and Be able to look at those other things and say, you know what if this was my house I would want this done so i'm going to go ahead and do this All right, so one of the things that I always tell people when I'm training them on it is One of the things I always tell people when I'm training them on it is if you have somebody that's below average customer service I certainly wouldn't eliminate them because there's a lot of factors that can go into that, right? Some of it can be they're just their socioeconomic background Um, and this is customer service is the one of these seven that I would say can be trained up the rest The other the other six are what they are right customer service can be trained up So I would always tell somebody to share real life stories of what Their team has encountered in the field In terms of things that that you know, you've walked into this house and This has happened. There's a dog that's pooped all over the floor. What are you supposed to do, right? That's where somebody that's Below average customer service would struggle is making that decision, right? Um, so sharing real life examples of we had one team member that Encountered this and this is what they did and it was great. We had one team Member that did this and this is what they did and we wish they would have done the other thing All right So sharing real life examples with people that are below average customer service really goes a long way to Helping them understand what you're what you're trying to get Um out of out of their role and helping them kind of see the bigger picture in and push forward with Doing things the way that you want them to do it This one is tricky though Because it is so very I can think of off the top of my head right now I can think of some business owners that just using your blind example, right Some business owners that would not want them to Spin the blinds and do the other side. They would want them to follow Precisely what was said. Hey, I just said to just dust the blinds I didn't say anything about doing both sides, etc And then I know there's another In my in my world a wider portion of the population that would prefer that they think bigger picture And how can they provide? Additional customer service and I do know there's a chunk of business owners out there That don't want them doing anything outside of not even a little bit outside of scope of work because they're afraid That they are going to set up expectations for the client that other teams other people can't meet And that's a real thing and that's a real thing because but another technician goes to the house And if they don't know that they're supposed to be doing stuff that's not part of the scope of work they don't and Then what started out to be as an extra and a good deed winds up Turning into a disappointed customer because all they're getting is what they initially agreed to Oh, no Yeah, that's a tricky one. I can see why that's lowest And I also recognize why you are saying that you would not Recommend eliminating someone for for this reason that makes perfect sense to me. Yeah And I think it comes down to the messaging right it comes down to making sure the expectations are clear And again, you know what I said in terms of of sharing stories, right? You know this person did this and we wish they wouldn't have because it led to this maybe it was a good example and this person or In my mind a good example This person did open up the blinds and and clean the other side But the the owner didn't want them to And they tell the other person that that led to issues because the next cleaner Like tom said the next cleaner came in and and didn't do that and then we got complaints, right? So just sharing the expectations and and making the expectations clear But also again sharing those Sharing ideas or I shouldn't say ideas sharing sharing stories about the weird things Because that's where somebody that's below average customer service is really going to struggle is the weird things Right. You walk into a house and and a dog pooped. What are you supposed to do? Because that's not in their job description And some people are going to understand that when we give you the example about the dog pooping that later when there's cat vomit That's the same situation and there are other people that won't understand that and I think that's What you're talking about here, right? Those people are going to get the low customer service Um reigning because they just don't understand What that is you said dog poop you mentioned a thing about the cat vomit Yeah, I mean I would hope that I would hope that I would hope that anybody would be able to correlate the two But well, you would be disappointed in my mind. I would think that sharing a story about In my mind Sharing a story about dog poop is the same as sharing a story about cat poop, but I do understand that it's not necessarily the same And then you got to get into dog vomit and cat poop. It's very complicated Right I am 100 on board With your thinking about the stories though because I do agree and though we're joking I do agree that the vast majority of the time you can begin to set the bigger The bigger um vision for what we're trying to get to with those stories versus just saying You know clean clean the floor We're gonna we're gonna have some failures with just clean the floor Yeah So tell us joe. This is what my favorite Oh, I'm gonna keep talking. I keep forgetting. I keep stopping when you talk, but sorry When tell us a public story about workplace theft attitudes. I know you have a couple of really good stories there Yeah, I mean So I think my favorite actually you probably haven't heard because This is my story and not my dad's story and you always heard my dad's stories um So marginally Means that when somebody has the need and the opportunity Simultaneously They can justify Stealing they can justify it to themselves. They can say to themselves I need this more this money more than mr. And mrs. Smith need this money, right? So We recommend that you eliminate anybody who's high risk or marginal risk Per theft because marginal risk means that the fuse is there. You just don't know when it's gonna light But if something happens in their life, it's gonna light high risk means that the fuse is there and the And the bomb is probably gonna go off, right? So I had a it was actually a maid owner That I talked to this was probably two years ago and She had hired somebody that she had been using this for years And they usually didn't hire anybody that was marginal risk for theft But this person worked in the office Or sorry, this person's sister worked in her office All right So they ended up hiring her as a maid because her sister worked in the office Everything else was fine on her report except she was marginal risk for theft And Um, she was fine for about a year or so and then she ended up getting divorced and About a year after she got divorced a boyfriend came in or called the owner and said Um Blah blah blah has been Stealing from your clients for the past year And selling she's been stealing purses and selling them online. She's got a etsy website and here's the website and She's stealing all these high-end purses and Um So they eventually called this this lady into the office and and she She said you know what I I did start I didn't start until after I got divorced because Uh, I couldn't live the lifestyle that I was used to and I needed more money So I figured that these people's houses that I were going into because they were so high-end They wouldn't miss if I just took one purse. So she was only taking one purse from each house But then she was selling them online. I mean they were all like it was the Yeah, it was a It was a high-end community, right? So she was selling these purses for like $800 each online Um And he gave her the link to this website and all that and she finally admitted it and and she said exactly what somebody whose marginal risk for for workplace theft would say which is essentially I had the need because I wasn't Getting the lifestyle that I was used to right Um, so that's the worry with the workplace theft thing is you never know what's gonna late somebody's fire there Right. It can be something as simple as I want my son to play It can be something as simple as I want my son to play you Talking over him. It's making me insane doing it But I know he can't hear me unless I keep talking over him. I'm gonna let you go back to your software thing just a second Joe But it is um crazy because she was right. She was stealing for over a year Stealing a purse here a purse there a purse here a purse there and nobody ever noticed She got turned in by her own bird boyfriend or I'm guessing as boyfriend at that point, right? That's crazy. Tell us about the soccer team. Yeah, they had broken up. That's why he turned your end Um, I don't even know what I was saying when you Got into I remember I could tell the story but I'm gonna have to talk over you again You were talking about how whether it's something like a divorce or something along the lines of you Just want to put your son. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. We talk there, right? We need extra money Right. So with with the marginal risk for theft, you don't know what their trigger is, right? You don't know if it's wanting to Sign their son up for travel soccer or wanting to sign their son up for football or their daughter up for for hockey And they don't have the money and they've been fine for a year or a year and a half But all of a sudden they have this need right So now once they have this real need they're gonna start looking at Things differently. They're gonna start looking at the money sitting on the counter that they never even looked at before differently, they're gonna start looking at jewelry that they see differently they're gonna start looking at these designer purses that they see differently and wonder if if The client would really miss it, right? They're going to start seeing stuff in the home as an opportunity for themselves versus And a normal person would not even make that connection at all So you're going to notice here that we have a question. I think you can read it. Joe Can you see that question there? I'm not sure that it's entirely clear for carol exactly how the assessments work Maybe you could give a little bit more definition So carol you would not be able to discern It in the assessment, which one that would be right? The assessment would tell you that the person is likely if they're high risk for theft It's going to tell you that they're likely to steal so that can be either from you or them So it can be supplies in in what you mentioned in your question it can be supplies or it can be something from from the customer or the the client And be a purse or money or whatever is is in their home Yeah So this is actually really uh, I love that she's asking this question because this is part of How business owners how we get ourselves kind of tripped up a little bit We are trying to think of how we could figure it out But that's where the orion comes in because it's so far superior so much testing has been done So much data has been collected about How this stuff works that Your systems are just superior. We can't even it's not a thing that we can figure out Can you talk a little bit joe about and I think this is still true? I'm not positive I haven't spoken to you about this in a while, but in the past You you couldn't get an accurate rating If you were for example the business owner and you were trying to take this or you couldn't get an accurate rating If you took it after you were hired. Is that still the way it works? It is yeah, so it's designed So the psychologists Behind it. It's designed By them with the applicants neutral mindset in mind. So it is definitely not valid For current employees And it is not 100 not valid for owners I tell people that all the time and I'll always have owners that want to try it And do it on themselves and I always tell them The first thing you're going to want to do if you do it is fire yourself and every time it comes back terrible Right Yeah, right But it's it's not valid on an owner because it's designed with an applicant's neutral mindset in mind right so you want them in that mindset of Are we going to get hired or are we not going to get hired? You don't want them thinking that this is the last step that they need to jump through when they do it You want them still questioning things, right? So It's generally done Before you have any meaningful conversation with them We do have Some people that will do it a little later But we've talked to them about making sure that they Maintain a neutral Tone and neutral deposition in the interview process so that the candidate doesn't think Oh my gosh, this person loves me. I'm going to get this job no matter what right and then they get this Email with their or they're doing it in person And Because they're going to answer the question differently if if they're in that mindset if they're in the mindset of I've got this job already and this is the last step I have to jump through Then they're going to answer the questions in a defensive manner instead of in a truthful manner and it's going to show And the report's going to be bad if they do that And and when somebody's looking to get hired, this is really I know this is obvious what I'm going to say, but It also bears repeating that when somebody is Looking to get a job And they're filling out one of these assessments. They're trying to get The right answer right what they think the right answer is so it's Everything is going to be based on an applicant trying to give you the right answer And so we can't we can't do that. We can't do that. It's like the mirror image thing Are we seeing the real thing the mirror image? We can't do that psychology ourselves That has to be run through much smarter people than us that can that can play that game of What are they thinking at this specific time? How what's their mindset? How does that compare to what they answered? It's a it's a tricky little game. I could easily see why as a business owner I would give a completely different answer than I would as an applicant And that's going to mess you up And I think that's you know, that kind of speaks to the That kind of speaks to the value of it too, right? Like just having that objective information because I I think having whether it's Orion or if you're hiring for an office staff person and using the disc things that that that Liz does having objective information of Of any sort It's going to help you immensely in terms of making the right decisions because anybody can be Whoever they want when they're interviewing with you like Liz said, right? Somebody can put on an act and be somebody that they're not when they're interviewing with you So having objective information When you're going through that hiring process He's going to help you immensely in terms of Choosing the right people and making the right hiring decisions In joe, i'm a you know, I know that we're we're saying this that all of this would be in the context of The standardized repeatable process you know the you know the idea of Hiring people just based on gut feel and talking to them Isn't going to get you as good an answer a good result as A standardized process and objective assessments being part of that Yeah, I mean, I think I think the biggest mistake that most people make is number one not happening the objective information, but but number two is is Hiring because you're desperate, right? I think you you want to always kind of try to keep that pipeline full At least keep that pipeline With some people in it because you never know when the next person is going to come in and tell you that They're moving next week or that they're quitting tomorrow, right? So keeping that pipeline full And keeping that pipeline full is going to keep you from making those desperate decisions because I think the desperate decisions And the settling for people is the biggest mistake that people make I think the number one thing people need to do is is create standards, right create a standard Know what you're doing have a Plan and follow that plan and then stick to that plan and in that plan Needs to be a standard of who you're going to hire and don't settle. It's better to turn away two customers tomorrow Because you don't have the workforce to do it then to hire somebody that shouldn't that you shouldn't have hired Which may end up alienating Some of your staff which may end up creating a lot of customers for you and your other staff And which may end up creating bad reviews for you on yelp and google and everywhere else, right? It's it's extremely important to make sure that you have those standards and that you're sticking to those standards And that you're not settling I think one of the biggest mistakes that most People make is settling just because they're desperate. So creating that pipeline and and continuously recruiting And and making sure that you're not just hiring right now because you need somebody and you're always Continuing to you know hiring is a process and not an event is what I like to say, right? So making sure that you're not just hiring right now because you need somebody Yes At the very least you always want to be stopped from making those desperate decisions because making those desperate decisions Yeah, we make the distinction that we always want to be recruiting Even if you don't need to hire somebody at the moment you want to have Qualified candidates in the pipeline. So when you do need to make a hire You're not scrambling and making you know picking between bad choices We're sharing your website here go because we're down to just a couple more minutes before we get to the top of the hour if Anyone in our audience wants to know about you know, how to Use objective tools and in their their hiring process their interview and evaluation process Um, I'm assuming you'd be happy to talk to them about that absolutely Tom can you click on the Orion systems? tab there This one I saw the one down at the bottom, but that one will work as well This this is a great place for I think for people to be able to go Put your information in there find out a little bit more about it. Is there any I is there I hate asking this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway Is there any place on here where they can find about find out about price joe? Or is this the best place for them to go Contact somebody and then they can find out more about how the pricing works Um, there's probably not but I will tell you that I mean I can tell you now That it's 14 dollars and 75 cents per report that you run It's you're only charged when somebody completes a report So there's multiple ways to to administer it. You can do it in person So obviously if somebody comes in in person and does it then you're getting charged But you also can send a link to people to your candidate So you're not wasting your time with people that wouldn't have shown up anyway because a lot of times they won't complete the Orion So if you send it to them and they don't do it or they go in and answer 60 other questions and don't answer the last 20 You're not charged. You're only charged when somebody completes all 80 of them if you send it to them, but it's 14 dollars and 75 cents per report there is an initiation or a A fee to build your account Which is 184 dollars and 95 cents and that's a one-time fee You'd never have to pay that again after that. It's just 14 dollars and 75 cents per report Excellent All right, so for everybody who's hearing that number And is thinking oh my gosh, but for every single applicant. I want to remind you How much money you're going to save? Because of that 14 dollars and 75 cents now and don't don't forget those numbers the the success rate Of those things, you know I know we have some stuff that's over 90 percent Um Accurate those are crazy on y'all, right? So And you know, this is like doubly true in 2023 if we were having this discussion You know 10 years ago when minimum wage was about five dollars and 15 cents an hour You said well, you know 14 dollars is a lot of money But if you think about what it costs to hire an onboard and train someone in today's salary dollars I would spend a ton of money on objective assessments to help me make better hires because That's that's nothing compared to what it's costing you when you make a bad hire Well, we have one minute Joe. You have I read a uh Yeah, so I read a uh um article recently That was from the harvard business review and it said 80 percent of turnover Can be contributed to bad hires Oh, wow so I'll also give you One of my favorite books is good to great by jim Collins. Mm-hmm. What'd you say? Uh, I said and really that's not all that shocking initially when you said it about the 80 percent I was like dang and then when I thought about for half a second. I was like, yeah, that sounds about right Joe, thank you for joining us. Oh go ahead last thought please I was just going to say one of my favorite books is is uh good to great by jim Collins and one of his quotes in there is the most important decisions people make Business people can make are who decisions and not what decisions Right. So a lot of people like retention is a big issue nowadays, right? Yeah, retention is a huge issue right now but if harvard is saying that 80 percent of Retention is based on who you hire and not Or who you hire then if you're spending More than 20 percent of your time Trying to build the culture and trying to do all these other things then you're missing the boat Because I mean you should be spending a lot of time doing that, but If you're not making sure that you hire the right people Then you're just going to keep spinning your wheels You have to hire the right people to make sure that all the things that you're doing to try to build the culture And to try to make sure that people are respected and try to make sure that that people are feeling valued and Giving them all the tools to feel that they're measured and and all of that which are the things you need to be doing But if you don't have the right people that doesn't matter if you have a bad apple It doesn't matter how much time you spend trying to build them up and how good your culture is because they're a bad apple at the end of the day You're going to have somebody you really like who steals from you So joe i'm going to go ahead and drop a link to your website In chat again, so anyone who would like to have more information about orion or other services you offer they can Reach out and thank you for joining us today. Please Tell bill your dad. We said hello. We um Love your dad Thank you for having me All right, be safe out there everybody tom joe both of y'all are like hurricane dwellers So enjoy enjoy the rest of the day everybody talk soon. We'll see you next wednesday five o'clock eastern. Bye. Bye