 I'm doing so good. Uh, I did not see avatar two yet, but, uh, based off of the glowing review that jelly knees gave it, I'm going to have to go and see it now. Um, also, I don't know. Maybe I'm just weird, but I do not see the live feed on YouTube. So I don't know if we're actually live. Okay. So there's, there might be that we're doing for no good reason. There it is. It just popped up. Okay. Okay. Are we, are we on time then? Like, are we, let me, let me turn on the audio. Are we in sync? I think so. Oh, I don't know. It literally didn't pick up and tell him saying, I don't know if we're actually on YouTube. Really? Oh, there we go. Holy shit. Oh my God. Hello everyone and welcome back to for the medians, the weekly show where we talk about predecessor over prime and ethereal. I'll make this joke again, even though I made it already. God damn it. This is the only third person Moba's that had her to me. I don't give a fuck about smite. No. And, uh, we got a lot to unpack this week. We got a, oh yeah. King son, I haven't covered King son forever. We got a lot to unpack this week. We got a predecessor added counters and a bunch of other features. We've got over prime added their winter event, gave away a bunch of heroes and competitive kind of really started up. And then for all you ether bunnies out there, we got some ethereal news about targeting radicals and a little bit of malware gameplay. I am your host, the mangoes joining me as always as my friend and co-host jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I'm fantastic. Mangoes and parts of me really want to just like re say exactly what I said the same way over again, but now I'm, I still got a comment on ether bunnies. Apparently you're all ether bunny. Yeah. Pilgrim even just said it in chat too. I don't know what ether bunnies are, but apparently you ethereal fans are now called ether bunnies. Um, but I am fantastic mangoes. I saw avatar two this week, big fan, big fan of that movie, the original movie and the new one. And yeah, it's been a great week for that. So with us as well though as Viking Jedi, welcome back Viking. How are you doing? Hello. Uh, I have not seen avatar two, but I, would like to, especially after jelly, uh, gave us a little bit of a rundown of how good it was. Um, I had a feeling I was going to like it and want to see it anyway, but yeah, uh, throw all bunnies. What's up chat? What's going on guys? Uh, and we've got a really special guest today. Lots of hype around this one. We've got the J. Pie in the house. What's up, man? How are you doing? Hey, I'm happy to be here. I'm still, I still haven't seen the first avatar, but I will soon. Please don't spoil that. Oh my God. All right, no longer part of this. Have a good week. No spoilers on like a, what is it? Like 10, 12 year old movie. I just add, that's all I ask. I'm, I'm, I'm getting to it. I promise everybody dies at the end years are getting to it. It's about large smurfs. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It always seemed really cool. And I'm really happy to be a part of the cast and talk about these, these awesome games that we get to play. Now J. Pie, you did a really good video recently. If you guys haven't watched it, I've got his YouTube and his Twitch linked down below. He did a really good video that I think we need more of in the community talking about how to counter certain heroes. You need to pick certain items and the end user. We're specifically talking about anti-heal and people will talk all day long about how overpowered a hero is, but they will never build against them. And you can't balance a hero without taking the items that you have in the game into consideration. And I really loved that, that video that you did. Hey, thanks for the thanks J. Pie for the membership. You got it. That all it takes is I have to compliment your video a little bit. Oh, I mean, I wanted to do it before, but I was like, oh, I just want to hype it up. I'm really grateful for the love and support because I have so much fun making videos like that for the community. Right on. You guys ready to get into it? Let's get into predecessor. We pull up our syllabus here. So predecessor, I think the probably the biggest news coming out of predecessor this week is the addition of Countess. I suck with her, but she is awesome. I really like the changes that they made to her. They made her a little more survivable in team fights. So she isn't just that all in dump your kit and then either die or hopefully get out. You can actually survive a little bit and still contribute to the team fight, just a wee tiny bit. Jay Pie, what do you think about Countess and predecessor? I think she's one of the weaker mages, but I'm in the minority there, I imagine. I think she's really strong because it's like this. You have some heroes that are pub stompers. She's a pub stomper. And we're basically, yeah, all we are having is pubs. So once the overall skill of the community matures a bit more, she'll be handled better. And I think Kalari as well. I have been meaning what I would describe as counter junglers to those specific characters. And it's just, I never, that's part of the reason why for me it's never been a problem at all. I think it also shows that she's just being spammed in like every game because everybody wants to try her. And so you're going to get probably a really good mixed bag of like she just pops off and destroys everybody in the lobby. And then there's the opposite where it's like she's doesn't feel like she's even a champion. She's just a fucking melee minion. So I know me personally, my experience with her is a mixed bag. I think she feels a lot of fun when you're actually able to press the buttons, but she can be knocked out of her ultimate, which is it feels bad so you don't actually get the benefit of the healing. So if you have people who are paying attention, she can just stop you from basically doing what you went in to do in the first place. And the one thing that was nice though is it doesn't go on cooldown, so you can repress it if you get knocked out of it before you've completed it. But it does that might you might be dead before you get a chance to repress. And I think itemization is going to be huge for her. And I think as more people, not myself, but more people start to figure out what items and you know what path to go to really get her power spike early, because I think that's what she needs. She needs to get ahead early to be relevant, probably similar to Kalari. But she's I'm happy she's there. She's one of my favorite OG champions. She she's so fun. I fucking I love Countess. So I'm glad to see her in the game. I'm glad I got to play her a few times. It was hard to get her everybody. Jelly, what do you think? I am completely with him on, I think Countess is complete pub somper in any type of coordinated play. Countess is always going to suffer same with Kalari, same with a lot of those assassin heroes, right? Is maybe they'll pick up a kill, but after that, they're certainly going to die because they'll just get shut down by all the chain CC, especially in current predecessor that you have running most of these games. But it's it's good to see her in the game overall. I think she's a healthy addition. I agree that she's probably one of the more the weaker mages, partly because of her range, right? And having to get point blank range to do anything is going to make her suffer a little bit. But I think she's she's still in a relatively good spot overall for the game. I think Countess is good. Oh, sorry, I just want to point out because there is still a lot of confusion. I see it pop up in the in the pre-chat a lot. For those of you who are not in the know, her passive does go up to 20 percent. I don't know if they fix the typo yet, but they did put in their unique champions, which would mean that it would only go up to 10. There is no unique. You can kill your laner 10 times and get to full passive. You don't have to kill everybody on their enemy team. So you just have to get 10 kills and your passive will go up to 20 percent healing. Just just for the the heads up, because I don't know if they fix it yet. I've always felt that Countess was a very high skill cap hero that used appropriately, could absolutely wreck no matter what. And I think the changes that they made to her with giving her a little more healing and a little bit more potential, just increase it. Just it helps those people that can use her well, actually stay in the fights and just mainly she was. Everything flows together really well. I've talked about ability queuing in both games and I don't feel it's great in either game. However, Countess, it feels absolutely amazing. You can dive in and just as fast as you can click your buttons, those abilities are firing off and you're and you're and you're getting some shit done. So great times there. It is a little hard to get her. I've seen. I don't think I've ever seen as many Q dodges as I've seen since Countess came in. But I did team up with Windu Bearded, Smokey, actually, and some of Windu's very he was so specifically so I could like claim to her and play her without having to piss a bunch of people off. And yes, she felt really good. It was also just really good playing with Smokey. If you guys don't know who Smokey is, I know a lot of people think Ace is like, well, Ace is, I guess, the founder of Omega as a company, but it was Smokey who came up with the idea of predecessor. And, you know, there was like four people there before they had an ace. So Smokey's like the OG. I think we've all really enjoy. He's kind of why a lot of people have been rooting for press predecessor for a very long time. He's just a fun dude. And it was really good to play with him. I would like to see more, more of that. Like, we used to get that a lot back in the day is just a lot of a lot more interaction with like Smokey and Fringe and all those guys. I would love to see more at in predecessor show him. Processor needs to show their heart a little bit more and those guys are like kind of the heart of that game. Well, I do that credit. I mean, I think it's been cool that they've been throwing up their streams, right, and getting involved in the gameplay because that's something, you know, not to necessarily compare, you know, apples to oranges, but we don't really get that same thing here, especially in the West with overprime, right? We're not going to probably get into a game with John Snow, right? Whereas you can with the Pred team, they're all playing the game. They're getting involved when they can, right? Obviously, they've got work to do and stuff and we want them to be doing their work. But the fact that you got to play with Smokey, he's such a nice guy. I was blown away by actually a lot of the Pred team and how really cool they are when I got added to the creator program. So it was super, super fun being part of like the early access to the game before it came out for everybody and getting to be in lobbies with them and they're talking shit and, you know, and giving each other a hard time, giving us a hard time and back and forth. It was so much fun. So they're a really, really cool group of people and you can tell that they're obviously passionate about the game. And so I agree. I would love to see them in the games more often and showing up in people's lobbies and creating that because I think it's a unique opportunity for them. Right. Yeah, definitely. I kind of liked the way that OverPrime went about in their YouTube, like throughout the entire process of building up to early access release and everything. And I hope that they continue to do that. I mean, they had a video with the developer, his, I forgot his name. We went through a day in his life. And that was... Oh, Rockamania. Rockamania, yeah, yeah. And it was cool down to earth. And I, you know, it's not exactly gameplay related, but it's nice to see that side of the studio. Because I do like Pred because they have like an anti-crunch in terms of like development crunch philosophy. And I think that Team Soul Eve, they've also had a great atmosphere and philosophy. And I definitely want to see more of that. And just know that when he says anti-crunch, he doesn't mean the crunch of the hero in front of Cesar. He's a development time one. Yeah, it's like overworking the workers, basically. Which is like a double-edged sword, right? Because those of us as the community were like, fuck, give us shit now. But, you know, take vacations or, you know, don't work past five o'clock and have, take your weekends off, enjoy your family. But make the game faster. Like it's a double-edged sword. Actually, I'm curious about Jelly Slaw because he's always the guy that's kind of got these back-end thoughts. With Countess, I've personally found what I was playing here and I'm curious what your thoughts on it. But obviously you guys chime in, please. But it being more like a bruiser tank meta because I was playing her solo lane, fuck dude, I could never get a solo kill in off lane as her against any of the tanky guys, right? And so I don't know if in your time of looking at like the itemization or anything like that, is there even a place where Countess can live in the off lane against these bruiser tanks based off just itemizing versus just her base kit? In the off lane, I would say in predecessor current form, no. There's no way she's a mid laner through and through for better for worse, right? With Grux, Crunch being as powerful as they are as well as you're seeing Severog, right? She's never gonna kill a Severog. She's never gonna kill a Grux or Crunch in the best of scenarios, realistically. Her only real chance is killing a Feng Mao and that's only because Feng Mao is really weak more than it is she's super strong, right? And so, but Feng Mao is rarely seen from the games that I've played in general because of the strength, excuse me, of those other heroes. I feel like off lane is just a bad spot for Countess given the current roster of off laners. I mean, if you're trying to be optimal, I don't think you would pick her in the off lane. I think that you pick her on the off lane if you're feeling your oats and you're up to the task and you wanna challenge, then- What does feeling the oats mean? I need you to explain that. What is the feeling your oats mean? In horse racing, when there was one horse that like exploded during a race and just had a burst of speed, this would be like, oh, you know, young Jackie is feeling his oats today. And is that like, is that like a, like a Wheaties thing? Like, you know, you ate your Wheaties this morning. Like at the horse track. Yeah, I know, I get it as a similar term is like you had your Wheaties this morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it came down. When I first heard that, that's what I thought, too. I think a lot of it too depends on people don't have as much experience with Countess as they do with like grucks or steel or several or crunch. So of course they're gonna be a little bit better in that off lane against the Countess that doesn't quite know what she's doing yet. But again, like you guys said though, I don't think she stands much of a chance against some of the tankier off laners, which is a nice thing about Fred is you can't just take a fucking ADC into their off lane or a mage or something and expect- I learned that the hard way over and over and over again, dude. I tried like so many times guys to try, I'm like, do you know what? Let's see if we could make this one work. Nope. As soon as they get an item or two, you might bully them like for the first two levels or so or maybe the first two waves. And then after that, dude, all the tanks, dude, just start to just dominate. I will say though, because we gotta mention crunches and nerfs, I felt were actually really good. He's not nearly as OP as he was. I think he's still viable. Like I think he's in a good place now, whereas before he was just so hard to deal with. Whether you played him jungle or off lane, I think he was oppressive. I think they need to look at steel, maybe a little bit next. His shielding is so strong. Every one of his abilities giving a shield. I have seen so many steels do dumb fucking shit and get away with a sliver of health because they were able to shield their way out of fights. It just, it's ridiculous. That's maybe my next one. And of course how it's right, I think still needs to be nerfed. The nerf is scaling, but I don't think it matters. It doesn't feel good. It's his whole, he's too slippery. And unless you have like really, really good CC chains to keep him locked down to where you can burst him, he gets away and does a fuck ton of DPS while doing so. But before we get into like the nerfs and the meta and shit like that, I do want to clarify just real quick because I've seen this in my videos. People seem predecessor did not raise the prices of their early access. The prices were discounted at first. They were half off and now the discount period is over. They're a regular price. So they did not raise their prices. I know, you know, a lot of people clarified and said that they do realize that and they still think that it should remain discounted. All that, I just want to make sure that people know that they, it was just the end of the discount period. They didn't raise the prices. I just wanted to clarify that. Now let's get into the meta and the buffs and nerfs and stuff. Howitzer, yes, I think Howitzer is still extremely powerful in predecessor, even post nerfs. Crunch, I think is back in line. Howitzer, I think needs a little bit more love. I think the biggest thing with Howitzer is he's an artillery mage through and through. And artillery mages are supposed to be semi-immobile because of the range and the just pressure they can put on their abilities. I don't call Gideon an artillery mage though. He's mid-range in terms of casters. But he's way more of a just straight caster than he is an artillery mage. Gadget, another artillery mage but she's got the insane range but she's immobile. But Howitzer is perfectly mobile because once he hits level six, he can put everything out there. And then if you show up on him, press six and fly backwards under his tower and he's perfectly safe, right? You need a Richter. Like there's plenty of games where Mangus was able to just pull him out of the sky, right? But if I didn't have Mangus around on Richter, I was just kind of like, well, there he is way up there in the sky and I can do nothing about it. And I'm just gonna get pelted with his rockets in the meantime. He's just way too slippery for the amount of pressure he can exert. I have a public service announcement. It's for all the Chimaera players, the gentlemen that have refined tastes in the presentation. Oh my God. That's my story to you guys. When Howie's up in the air, you can actually leap up to him and ultimate him out of it. Yeah. So for anybody who didn't know that, when you're Chimaera, you better do that. Also Galaxy Greaves on Richter, you can jump up in the air if you miss your hook and just whack and knock him down. Oh, that's badass. I haven't done it to a Howitzer. I have done it to a Gideon when my Rip Lash was on cooldown. And it was one of the most amazing feelings I've ever had. I'm playing a lot of Kalari. My only hope of killing the Howitzer is if he's low health, double jump and ult him in the air and then just take him out that way. Yeah, I don't like that. I hope the Pred makes use of that space more. Those moments are fun. Yeah, I agree. I think that they have a lot of potential to play with more of the 3D MOBA space, right? Like to get a little bit more height. I think Howitzer's a good representation of that, right? Showing him flying around. His whole kit looks and feels awesome. Like I don't hate his kit as a whole. It just gives him too much to do. Like he just gets away with everything and he does so much damage. He can farm so safely. He's never gonna get ganked. Even though there's eight entrances into mid lane. If you're playing freaking any melee character or like, that's why I say it counts is I think would struggle in mid against any reasonably good mid jungle duo because you are always going to be getting ganked or you should be. Like you will never do anything. Like I saw a grucks go mid and that guy just AFK'd after the first five minutes because you can't play the fucking game. There's nothing you could do. It's just impossible. That's his fault for taking grucks mid. Well, true, well true. But I do, the reason why I say this is I think the health of good MOBAs means that a lot, there should be some bigger diversity in the lanes to an extent, right? Like you can, let's say for example, I know you hate this game, but League of Legends, you can take some top laners and bring them to the mid lane and still have them function well against mages based on the way that their kit works. Whereas in predecessor, and I would even say in over prime, you can't really do that. Like the roles are a lot more narrow and defined on what they can and can't do. I think off lane is probably the lane and maybe jungle that has the most diversity that you could take out there, but it does feel bad. I think that you can't try and innovate the roles a little bit. And part of that's just the champion pool as it is, right? I think as more champions get added, the diversity will probably expand out, but, and sorry, Steel mains, do you don't come over me, okay? I don't care. Your champion's too strong. It needs a little bit of a nerf. Filipino Martins, thanks for the super chat. It says we need console version and I need Wukong in the game. I still think Wukong is gonna be seasoned too, 100%. I feel like that's just a little too on the nose of a calling it ascension based. I think Wukong has to be involved in some way. Oh yeah. I mean, he's a mandatory character, whether we like it or not. I hope so. Yeah. And the reason is it's more than just whatever he means in the game. It's just that like, if there's one character Chinese players want to play, it's Wukong and also Kalari. This may already have Kalari, so you have Wukong. And because in any game, that's why he's always like present in every MOBA. It's just that the market in China is so massive, why wouldn't a MOBA want to take advantage of that? It's an easy appeal. Yeah, 100%. Also for all you house or players, if you didn't know, your basic attack does explosion damage. And I think that's a little wild for a ranged mage, right? I think thematically, it makes sense, right? He's shooting missiles and they explode. And so yeah, doing splash damage to the minions around. Thematically, I get it. I like it. Cool. On a ranged character having cleave, that's a little nuts to be honest, because then your wave clear is only improved and you don't need improved wave clear as a ranged character. So it basically cuts out any advantage melee characters would have in the mid lane against how it's served. Is because he can cleave and do splash damage just as well as you can, but from a distance. And what are you going to do about it? Absolutely nothing. And he has a disengage with his E, right? So he can knock you back and knock himself back or use it as a way to bring you to him, which I've seen so many really good howitzer players disrupt so many fights with their E. It's so fucking cool. But he's just, yeah. And then if it really goes to shit, you just hit R and go backwards and nobody can do anything. There's a, well also to build on your point with a displacement mine, which is the E, it's some of the best peel in the game. So your carry is under fire, you just pop that bad boy and your carry is perfectly fine. And not other mid laners, they have to commit a lot more of their kit. Like Gideon has to throw himself in danger and the Faye can just use her ultimate to kind of rearrange, but the displacement line is like eight to 11 second cooldown. The Faye is ult, it's a huge difference. I think that the word that you just used, commitment is the biggest thing right there. I think that's, I love that you use that word because I think that's the thing. He doesn't have to commit to anything. He still can DPS at range, just popping off, right? Never have to get involved up front. And if he gets jumped on, he just disengages with either his ultimate or a good E placement. And not to mention his mines are always up and those things slow and do damage. And it's a huge area. Yeah, fuck how it's your bro. Get this guy out of here, dude. Well, I'd like to mention Gideon though, because I think Gideon is super fun in Pred. I love that his ultimate actually means something in the game. I mean, he still gets knocked out of it every time he does it, but I'm glad that if he gets left alone, if he gets left alone, he will fucking chunk him. If a skilled player waits for that CC to come out first and then does it, then it is rewarded. We're talking about how I say this all the time. It's it's the effort to efficacy ratio. It does not take fancy words. It doesn't take much effort to be effective with how it's her. And I think that's kind of the problem. But anyway, let's let's move on to some of the game, his stuff. But you're right. It's against a good Howie. It's just like, yeah, shit. Yeah. So some other stuff. Oh, good, good. I just want to talk about they added two things that I think really, really improve, Fred. One of the things that was probably one of my biggest complaints about Fred was sound design. They've improved sound design. So you can actually tell when you're hitting or missing with with range attacks or with melee attacks. And they added kill notifications through the center of your screen. So it feels like you did something when you killed somebody. I think I'm. It's it's so hard to say anything negative about predecessor because people immediately think that you're trying to fucking destroy predecessor so that over prime can rise up. But they they definitely needed to do something to add more visceral impact to predecessor because it was smooth, but it also felt soft. And I think it still feels soft in many ways. Like melee, basic attacks, I think need a little more oomph to them to let you know when you're actually smacking somebody. And but this goes a long way. The sound improvements go a long way towards helping predecessor feel more fun, I think. Yeah, well, I think and then a jelly, I know you have a point you want. But I think this is what I was actually going to say before you led into this was that we said that at the start of this, they were starting with a very solid but bare bones game. And they've already shown in just one patch. I think the ability to do those improvements that we were talking about that we thought that we had the faith that they could get there. But it's just all at this time that it's just all up. Like they can only go up really from here. And I think this last patch did a lot of that. It was a lot more engaging solo lane, which I'm the most always in didn't feel nearly as lonely. Not to mention the fact that I always had like three or four people coming into that lane. I think that's the FTM effect. I don't know what's going on. People just wanting to kill me. But no, that the sound actually makes. I mean, the voice lines for the ultimate cooldowns. Awesome, big, big fan of that. Not only just that way, I know that my ultimate is off cooldown, but I just nice hearing your champion talk to you. Yeah, that's a good. I really like the update with the ultimates when they come online. They have like a catchy phrase, you know, but you want to monetize something. Omina, make like voice lines that you can purchase. Yeah, it's cosmetic. It's cosmetic. You have the default and then you have something cool. Mike does it. That's that's it for going. But my long, long as the law is ready. Chessicles online. Yeah. Yeah, I would buy that. Two hundred percent. Everybody would buy that. I feel like some royalties have to go to Mangus, but. It has to be Mangus being the one thing. Ten percent. Mangus, you're taking the FTM 10 percent. OK, yeah. If it was like a Richter, man, goose voice line, fuck. Yeah, absolutely. If it was a Richter, man, goose voice lines every time you missed the hook, it was like, God damn it. Which you would be hearing every three seconds. Yep. Oh, yep. And I would be hearing it twice if you're playing with Mangus, right? Yeah, that'd be hilarious. But, you know, I want this is a great conversation. I want to contribute three of my biggest gripes. Number one, give please give South America their own servers. They deserve their own servers to cultivate their own scene. There's a lot of passionate players there. And you're really making a mistake by not giving them servers. 100 percent agree. Number two, the UI, everybody knows it's a work in progress. You guys have some things to improve on. And I highly recommend just stealing some overprime stuff. Like, you know, what was one great thing that I noticed with the jungle smite is. You see the damage that your smite does in overprime. And that's like key information. Really nice. The jungle in predecessor, it's a guess every single time. And in that, you know, the UI, I have a solution for Omida. You make it a toggle because they're so worried about casual players and competitive players have like a switch for notifications. One's casual, one's competitive, because the current one is perfect for casual. It's not in your face. You know, you get to see everything. But competitively, overprime has a correct and predecessor doesn't because I'm pinging, but it's on the sides of the screen. So nobody sees it. And then when somebody get kills or dies, that was a great step towards a positive direction, because now I see, OK, I just see the, I saw the Clary get enemy Kalari get three kills already. Now I'm paying attention to her. Like, when I see her roll up in my lane, I'm out. See you later. You know, but without that, you're just, you're guessing whatever you catch, you catch, whatever slips through the cracks. You don't even know. Yeah. So Medkit just said it too, but I still agree with you, Jaypie. Hunt is and it's not upgraded. It's 500 damage all the time. And when it's upgraded, it's a thousand damage all the time. But I still think it needs to have that indication of reminding you of like your hunts a thousand right now. You that way, I don't have to look at the bottom right to see if my hunts been upgraded or not. I can on the health bar say yes. Or even if they want to keep it on the bottom right and out of the main core of the screen, give me a number. Just just as 500 or a thousand that I can then just quickly reference and be like, OK, thousand health, boom, we're good to go and hit the button from there. Most other games do the scaling. And those absolutely need something on screen telling you how much damage it does. But in predecessor, it is 500 or a thousand. And I still think it needs the scaling and something they've been really good about is giving options to toggle things off. If people hate it, give them an option to toggle it off. But otherwise, I even though I know it's 500 and a thousand, I would still prefer again. So I don't have to look and see if my smite is upgraded or not already. I just know looking at the health bar, this is what my smite is at right now. What was your second one, your second gripe? Oh, you're all right. Take your drink. No, no, no, no. It's just ice. So is it flavored ice? No. So the UI, that's definitely a big, big, big thing. Third one. Sorry, that was your second. Yeah, I know, but I just I'm reemphasizing the UI because they that's what they're really far behind over prime there. I think they're far behind in gaming, to be honest with the UI. Like, I think it's 2023, bro. Like, I mean, there's a lot of things that should be a little bit more standard at this point. And this is to your point, I think having more options that can be toggled off is better, right? Give the players what they the information that they want and what they and be able to take away what they don't want. I mean, it finally happened in World of Warcraft. But Jesus Christ, like, I mean, it's 2023, boys. Let's get up to fucking speed here. That's modern UI design is very minimal for video games, right? It's as little on screen as possible. And out of the three games that we talk about on FTM, predecessor has the most screen space taken up with their UI out of all three. And they have from what the predecessor fans will tell you is that they're the most accessible to console. If they're the most accessible to console, why do we need so much on screen? Right? If there's so if there's so little that the buttons needed to be pressed and all of that kind of stuff, why do we need so much on screen at all times? Compared to when you have overprime and ethereal that have more things that they would have to display at all times but still have cleaner overall minimal more minimal designs of their UI, right? That a lot of this stuff can be cut down really, really drastically starting with the hero borders or the hero profiles at the top. That just takes up a ridiculous amount of screen space. I stole and I will always complain about this till I fix it. When you hit tab, having it go full fucking screen with all the stuff that you there, it's information overload. You can't move anything around. I do it because I play both games. I'm always in predecessor. I'll hit tab to be able to look at the minimap so I can ping, you know, get a bigger vision. And then I'm like, oh, fuck, there's there's nothing I could do here. I just wasted a key click. You know what I mean? But yeah, it's it's at this point it's something. But again, I do have the faith that they can get there. It's just a matter of them putting in the time to make it happen. And I know somebody in the comments said, I think it was covered as lemon. He said that he's read that the UI design guys are very scared of making it too cluttered, probably because of the late days of Paragon having an awfully cluttered UI. That's fair. And I understand that they might be hesitant. But again, if you make it to where it's customizable for the user, even if you do a bare bones version for console at some point, you do as much of it customizable for your current player base, which is on PC and so easy on PC to be able to customize how you want things, move stuff around or not move stuff around, just have customization. That's that's the fix it. Give us more information, but let us customize it. And speaking of customization and such, they also added custom games to the to the game custom game mode and improved in game reporting. Now, I think these are steps in the right direction, but they're baby steps. I think they need to take bigger steps for both of these. Hopefully this isn't like placeholder this will do for now. Let's move on to what we're doing next. I hope they improve both of these as they go along. But the custom game modes, it has to be 5v5. You have to have five real players. You can't include bots or anything like that. You don't have spectators. You can't have a spectator in there. And the in game reporting, you could only report while you're in game. You can't no longer report that person if the game finishes, which I think is they don't have any match recap screen. Right. Without that, there's no way to know what players and how to report them and any of that kind of stuff. They did say, though, in their blog, right, that that is something they're going to be adding soon to be able to report after the games. But it's currently just in game, which is a step, right? Like Mingyu said, it's a step in the right direction, but obviously we expect more and soon. Yeah. And I also just want to make it known that I like I have some time constraints in my life right now. So I can only play one game at a like a competent level. And I chose predecessor. So my my criticism is going to be a lot more refined for predecessor than overprime with predecessor. I hope that they I know that they will improve the UI. They've mentioned it that they would before. So I have faith in them. Yeah. And I got, you know, I haven't been able to play overprime. But I played in preparation for our cast tonight. And the game is it's a blast. It's a lot of fun, just. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. And it seems how do you guys feel about the difference in approaching cues and the populations there? So overprime has a competitive ranked cue and a casual cue predecessor just has one. Do you guys think that's going to have a big impact on the game itself? Or, you know, what are your general thoughts? Well, we're going to talk about that a little bit when we get to overprime, as far as how that has affected the Q times, because it has certainly affected Q times for overprime. As far as in the in the vein of predecessor versus overprime, as far as the Q times go and everything, it's no secret that overprime has far, far, far more players than predecessor currently is probably due to the PDA and all that and overprime being free and a lot of those are Asian players and not North American players, whatever. I think overprime has a bigger player base to work with that they can split that cue just a little bit more than Fred can right now. And again, we'll get more into it with overprime because they do have they separated even further, even with quick battle. Can't you're not going to queue into a five stack as a solo player, which is good for the game overall? But it could be it has made Q times a little bit longer. Yeah, absolutely. I think part of it, too, is a number of surveys or surveys servers that you can go to both games, right? Like, yes, there is NA West and East for both games, but a lot of the servers elsewhere in the world. There are I think I believe overprime has one or two extra servers on top of the the ones that predecessor has. And so with that, you're you split up your players further with the different servers. And then from there, you have the different cues in each server that then it just kind of exacerbates the problem to an extent. But like you said, man, we'll talk about that a little more in the future. Yep. And I think that was about everything. Except I think you wanted to pick a fight with bearded jelly. Well, I wasn't going to name him, but I'm sure. I was just going to talk about it in general. They've been mentioning several times on the broadcast are talk about how early access has changed and that their predecessors beholden to what early access means now compared to what we know early access used to mean and how they how bearded specifically disagrees with us. Our take on that that we should be holding predecessor to the actual meaning of early access and not what early access means to the masses. I the biggest thing, regardless of what I believe early access means and what I'm holding predecessor to, they are beholden to the lowest common denominator of what early access means to the population at large, which is who they're trying to get. They're not trying to get me. I already play the game. What I think of early access means very little to what they need to prove other people think of early access. When you're trying to pull a call of duty player, who's been who played Modern Warfare 2's early access and they come to predecessor and they play early access, what are they going to compare it to? They're going to compare it to the early access they know and are and are beholden to, which is the call of duty early access, which is a very different early access to what predecessor has. Yes, pretty much a game. Exactly. Right. It's not. They don't have to prove to me what early access is. I'm here playing the game already. When you look at the lowest common denominator, the player base at large, if you're talking about every player out in the world, you have to answer to early access to what they believe early access means, not what I believe early access means. And the vast majority of those players don't care what early access used to mean. Early access now means a more complete game when you're trying to attract those people. That's what they're going to think of when they play your early access game. And then you're going to be held to that standard, whether it's right or wrong, we said before, is not the point. Right. Early access used to mean something different and used to have better standards set for the industry, but has been so muddied that now it frankly doesn't matter. Yeah, I will I want to throw my two cents in. I think that early access, I mean, money has exchanged hands. So now every every circumstance, event, misstep, success, it all counts from here on out. And our good point. Yeah. And in the I know that on me, they plan their biggest growth to be free to play. What that indicates to me is that they're kind of preparing for that moment. That's like the their do or die, because if it tanks right after that, guess what? We're not going to have predecessor for that long. And at that point, I think they're like for early access, they did a little bit of marketing, like some grassroots types of marketing, which was nice, you know, like it's the community. And I think this is not an answer anyone's going to like. But we are like the hardcore die hard fans. And we're going to be the minority one day of the overall player base. And it's a good thing because that means there's so if that happens, which I hope it does for predecessor. But if that happens, that means the game has grown so large that we are no longer the majority, you know. And that's a good thing. That means that it's like a success, basically. They're they're thriving wildly. And but yeah, but I do think you guys such upon an interesting subject in your previous four, the minions about them coexisting. I hope I hope we touch upon that at some point tonight. I think and that you hit it perfectly, right? At some point, we're going to become the minority in terms of if if the game is successful and goes wildly popular, grows wildly popular. We are the diehards are going to be the minority very quickly. And to an extent, they need to already have that in consideration that they need to know that these are the players that are diehard. And while it's not, we can't just ignore what they're telling us. We also have to keep the greater player base in mind at the same time. And that's a balancing act that nobody's going to get exactly right. So you you mentioned, right? The the free to play being their big moment. They're kind of shooting for the skies for that free to play moment. We saw the same thing out of fault, right? The whole time when we go free to play, you'll have nothing to worry about. When we go free to play, you have nothing to worry about. And then because they were shooting for that, they kind of snubbed what was happening already and it fell apart underneath them before they could even hit that free to play. And so I that would be my biggest like cautionary tale for Omeda is you can absolutely aim for the stars, but you can't forget the rocket that got you there, right? Like you got you have to find a way to balance both of those things and keep in consideration the things you're shooting for at the same time. I have to. Oh, well, I disagree with Joey, just to touch. Oh, I'll fucking tear them up, dude. I don't think the original fortnight loyalists made a difference to the what it became. And that's not a fair example. I'll be perfectly honest. It's not fair. It's yeah, it's fucking fortnight. That's OK. That's true. But I just want to leave the world. The B.R. I think is interesting and entertaining. But when you're talking about a game of the watch, I fell asleep at every single fortnight, even I ever watch. I agree with you, right? Like I said, you have to you have to find a balance. I would say that I don't think the early fortnight players made a difference on where fortnight is today. But definitely where they were two years ago, those players did make a difference. The feedback they gave provided the in the grassroots place for them to move forward. Here's a hot take. It's all based on the amount of scope and time you're looking at. Oh, hot take. Let's go. Here's a hot take for you. I was going to save this for the broadcast. I'm going to be on the broadcast tomorrow, I guess. But what I want to know is everybody that's saying like, early access needs to be paid because they need to make money to develop. And they need to be able to sell these skins because they need money to develop. And it's just early access. They need time to grow. You need to take early access. Where the fuck were you when fault was failing? Where the fuck was all this sentiment when fault was fucking dying and choking hard? No, you had motherfuckers talking about how it was a cash grab and all this shit and nobody ever gave fault a chance. And that's why fault didn't succeed is everybody just shit on it from the beginning. Anyway, where was that sentiment for fault, man? It is fault, right? It became like the waiting room for these other two MOBAs, right? And it shows, I think, in exactly that that all the guys who would be showing up in fault would be just talking shit about fault while playing fault. Like they had no real loyalty to it. And I worry about these hardcore fans because, dude, the lobbies that are the most toxic have been my pred lobbies. Those lobby, I on my streams, I've been covering chat because they are saying all kinds of shit. They are wild and out and fucking in the chat. Now, I think it's a good move that predecessor took it towards defaulted off, but I put it on because I hope that there's some communication going on there. Right? As a as a MOBA player, I expect there's going to be sometimes some toxicity, some people talking shit, complaining or whatever. But you're also hoping like someone's calling out, you know, hey, mid-dashed, you know, smite or it's on cooldown for five minutes or something like that, you know, some kind of valuable information. It's just almost always just garbage at this point. And that bums me out. But I also want to touch on a little bit of what Jelly was talking about with Early Access. It's a saying that I hate, but it's kind of true is perception is reality. And the perception is based on the beholder, right? So perception of what Early Access means is going to be based off of the person who's looking to purchase your Early Access. So if I have a wildly different opinion than you about what Early Access means, it doesn't mean that my opinion is wrong or that yours is wrong. It's just that's my opinion. And I think that a vast majority of the more casual players who might be looking to jump in on Early Access, and maybe Fred's like, you know what? We don't really, we're not really super worried about growing right now. We're happy to just have a game for our hardcore fans, the guys that have been there waiting for this game to come out. And that's what this is for. And that's why it's in payday EA. We'll get to the casual player base once we go free to play. That's fine. I could respect that. But I also, as a person, can look at it objectively and say, you know what, this Early Access, and I don't even have to look very far to compare Early Access when I look at the other game that's and also in Early Access, there's a big stark difference on what you're getting, you know what I mean? Even if we weren't even talking about being paid if it was just the term Early Access. So I think that the argument for telling one person to hold to the truer word wording of what Early Access means. Dude, the devs themselves don't have a clear definition of what fucking Early Access means. They all will call something Early Access. PUBG was in Early Access for like three years. And then it goes to 1.0 so they can get it on Xbox. And it was still the same fucking game. They didn't even update anything, dude. I think it was like a minor patch. I think it should get out of here, dude. The same thing. Developers don't even know what Early Access means. No, it's a joke from developer to developer, right? Like it shows that it's so muddy down that to just say like what we know or what Early Access was supposed to be. So that's what we should hold them to doesn't work anymore. I will say, though, it's it's the responsibility of the consumer to know what they're buying with their money. I mean, that's true. What are you going to just not do your research? And I think that consumers across the board do not do their research. No, they don't. To say to say to purely boil it down. Not even research, right? You're in a discord where an announcement just went out and you don't you read the first two words of the announcement of the game and you go into general chat and wow, this announcement. What does it even say? What does it even mean? And you couldn't read the rest is is out now. Like what people don't read for anything in anything. And so really, there's no consumer research being done. There's none of that. Like only the diehards actually care to read things. And so the vast majority of consumers don't and don't care enough to look into it. They're just going to hold it to whatever's in their mind as the things should be this. Can I share something with you guys that happened right before the cast? So I see on Steam, I got like a comment. Like somebody commented on your video. And I'm like, oh, she's cool. All right. And it's like the item video of just just the items predecessors items of like their stress tests from the creator event like in in twenty twenty one like July twenty twenty one. And he's like, this is fucking out of date. Why don't you make more up to date? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sir. My point is right there. My point. Exactly. Other videos I deliver exactly what you're asking for. My point. Exactly. Jay, this is just I, you know, in a time where like not only a hundred to two hundred years ago, it was like less than 10 percent of the population can read. And now it's like over 90 percent. But nobody chooses to read. Just strange. It basically choosing not to read is like you're not you don't even have the ability to read. And that's been like one of the greatest advantages of human beings. And I'm serious. It's like a huge thing. Anyway, we're cutting the philosophy off back to predecessor. Yeah, just by the way, a med kit. I didn't know I'm a jungle main and I didn't know Hunt does five hundred on tier one and in a thousand on tier two. How's that possible? I spend like 90 percent of my time in the game. Just learn that now. And med kit anybody who's into pred and med kits of wealth. He's a pool, an ocean of knowledge. He's he's he is a med kit is to predecessor. What Jelonese used to be to ethereal, which is just like knows absolutely everything. Hey, maybe a med kit will get hired by a predecessor. But I do want to touch one, too. But I don't want to get my mired into EA, too, because there was a comment saying, and we're going to get back to something that J. Pi said a little bit earlier about coexistence is somebody said that a predecessor feels more like original Paragon. I hope it wins. I don't think there's a winner anymore. I think people need to to to to stand down, put your weapons away, thought fighting each other, because we have seen now that both games are so very fucking different that there's definitely going to be a space for both games. You're going to have, I think that's the other thing, too. People are constantly making these arguments of, I think Fred is better because of this or I think overprime is better because of this. Bro, everybody has already picked which one they enjoy more. So they're either going to play that one or they're going to play both. And nothing you fucking say is going to convince them otherwise. So stop trying. Like there's not going to be a winner or a loser here. The only way that one will win or lose is if it loses to itself. If it can't maintain a player base. I don't think overprime is going to be Fred. I don't think Fred is going to be overprime. They're just going to be two very different games. And I think I disagree with you because it can happen. What you just said, absolutely possible, but also the alternative can happen where one trumps the other and just crushes the other. And let me tell you, overprime, they're smart. They're very smart. And I want Omida to follow that. Like what overprime has been doing steel, like the things that are working like and improve upon what what you see in your competitor. You know, I think if if Omida doesn't take Team Soleive seriously, they're going to have some unnecessary pains down the road because Team Soleive, they have a lot of resources. They work very hard. I played the game and now I have full disclosure. Like I said, I spent all my time in predecessor, but I played in preparations for today's podcast. And it's a lot of fun. That game is so much fun. Let me tell you, Wraith Jungle. I hate that. I hate you. You just I'm going to run. Time work. Stay right here, bitch. Well, hello, Communist Libman. Thank you for your one month membership. That's funny. I think so. You you touch on something that I wanted because in our in Tharth also said it like there's two parts of this. Let Paragon be in the past and move on. I I'm of that camp. I think it's great that Paragon existed. I loved the old Paragon. I'm happy because it brought me to you guys. But I'm also ready for a new iteration. I'm ready for Paragon to be in the past and for us to see these two new mobas in on their own two feet and in doing their own thing separate from what Paragon was. I also have found a lot of people and I think JPY is kind of speaking to it really well, is that you can enjoy both games for different things, right? And I think that I've now talked to a lot of people. We've seen it in chat. I've seen it in my chat where people are saying like, man, I was hardcore Pred, but I played over Prime for the first time today. And holy shit, is it wild? Holy crap, is it fun? But I still prefer playing predecessor more than I prefer playing over Prime. But I'm having a lot of fun and I will probably keep coming back to playing this game when I just feel like playing this style game. And I think all four of us are probably in that same boat. I've gone, we played predecessor this week. It's not like I logged in and was like, oh, here we fucking go. I got to play this fucking game again. Dude, I had fun still. Even when I was getting my asshole pounded and fucking off lane. It's it was still overall a fun experience. I do think that predecessor is slightly behind in the same like offerings that over Prime has, you know, as far as like content and criteria to go with. Sexy team. Let's go. Holy shit. Thank you, man. That much appreciated. Pop it off. But I am more in the camp that I do think that both can coexist. I still think, and this is something I said way long ago, they're still uphill for both of these studios. I think that there's still a lot that they both have to do to become relevant and have long term success. But I'm thinking that they both have the basis to be able to do so in tandem, even if, let's say, over Prime is slightly above predecessor as far as numbers, but there's still like a really solid core group of people who enjoy predecessor. That's fine. Look at Tarkov, dude. Tarkov is by far nowhere even close to the top first person shooter game. It's not even close, but it still has a very die hard fan base that loves playing that game. Spends a fuck ton of money in that game. Rainbow Six Siege, another one, not nearly as big as like some of the other shooters, but it's still popping off. I think it can exist as long as they manage their money. Well, they continue to innovate and improve and do all those things. I think it's possible. But anyway, that's my little tie rate. I also, if you're on the r slash Paragon subreddit and someone's coming in there saying I'm playing Paragon and can't figure out why my smite doesn't work, how much damage my smite, whatever it is, whatever they're coming in there with, stop responding with Paragon is dead. The game shut down in 2018. You know what question they're asking. You're just trying to be elitist and difficult. Yeah, please just shut up. You know what the semantics stop. Yeah, absolutely. If you aren't sure which game they're talking about, ask Overprime or predecessor. And a lot of people have been doing that. But if you're commenting Paragon died in 2018, do you mean Overprime? You're just being difficult and annoying. Just stop it. It's 100. Thank you for the super chat. Thank you. You are the one that's amazing. I have something to add to that. Yeah. And when somebody comes into the red and they're like, Hey, what the hell? Well, I mean, the studios, these guys stole the assets from Paragon. Oh, I saw this somewhere else. Holy shit. And then let's let's, you know, just have fun with it. We saw that. That was hilarious. All right. Speaking of dropping a bunch of money on a game, let's let's now move on to a game that I have dropped way too much money on in the past. Wait, wait, wait, can I before I finish, I just want to conclude the predecessor segment with one thing, because I was I was a part of the precast and I issued a challenge to you guys on the precast because they're like, oh, I'm so in. I'm so in J-Pyton. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what's the challenge. What's the challenge? I didn't see Lation. I'll get into it in a second. Yeah. I watched the contentious episode and I loved it. Right. I mean, obviously, I didn't agree with everything, but you guys had some very tangible and points that were just pretty much objectively true. You also had some horrible points, but that doesn't take away from the great points. We had horrible points. I don't believe you. No, you did. I can reveal them if you wish. I don't want to. But if you want me to, that we can get into it. I want to know more about the challenge that he's got made. I know he's got like a Google Doc. No, no, I want to know more about the challenge, though, because I didn't see it. I didn't see the challenge about having a doc ready to be made. I'm not going to say that I have one, but I don't know what it does. Yeah. OK, but before we get into any specifics, what I wanted to just say is simply this. Oh, your cams frozen. I felt like. Oh, what the heck? On the stream, it's frozen, but not in discord. Yes, we know it's it's frozen on my. Oh, he's not frozen for me. He's not frozen for me either. That's so funny. What do I? How do I fix this? I don't know. I make him rejoin. Get him out of here before he's he says. Do you want me? Do you want me to rejoin the call? I think I think I got no, no, I got it fixed. I got it fixed. OK, OK, OK, OK. I fixed it. What's the challenge? OK, so when I'm not a part of the precast anymore, but when I was, I said, OK, I feel like our cast precast is more slanted towards predecessor and for the Minions is slanted more towards over crime. I think we should have like a wrestling match type of thing where like one of one of us from each of the cast have like a conversation where we try to debate the other side and we and we make it like a wrestling thing. And then I was like, Magus, I fucking want you in the ring. I want you in the ring. And then I don't know if you guys if you guys missed it, then you wouldn't even be able to see it. But I did I did challenge each and every one of you to the right. And you're always welcome. So my only stipulation, 100 percent down to debate the precast guys, 100 percent. Only stipulation, they have to defend overprime and we have to defend Fred. If you're saying that we're cited. And absolutely, I didn't switch sides. I think I like it, though. I do like it. I actually, I think that's a that's a really good take. I would be down, though, the way that it's set up to like just debating. I'd like to hope and maybe I'm more biased than I think. I like to hope that I love you criticism equally, you know, without necessarily any bias. I will say I do prefer to play overprime more than I prefer playing predecessor, especially solo queue. Predecessor solo queue just it's not as much fun when. But when I team up with friends, it's still a lot of fun. But you could say that about a lot of games. I just have more enjoyment from the way that the game feels when I play overprime. I just have more fun, even if predecessor is way more of a strategic game than I would say overprime is. Not that overprime is lacking in strategy. But anyway, I would love to debate this. I think it would be super fun. We can make like a special podcast for it and just fucking we'd have to put everybody on a timer, though, because I know me and bearded. We would both just end up talking way too much and then trying to talk over each other and, you know, and then you'd have to admit that his beard sucks in comparison to mine, you know, it has a great point. That's the referee. Yes, that should be the first one. What a great opening title. The Battle of the Beards. I feel like I'm kind of on my own little fucking rainbow in the Unicorn Island where I'm. I'm biased about, I don't know, man. I don't think that's true, though, Mingus. I don't think you are unbiased. Which one has which I also don't think you're unbiased. Yeah, well, I think I'm unbiased as far as my view of the games and as far as how I critique both games. But I will say that I do play overprime a lot more than I play. And to me, it comes back to why. Why do you feel like you play one versus the other? Because when I first met you, right? When I when I very, very first met you before we became buddies, you were hard on the predecessor was going to be the next big thing. And that overprime didn't do anything for you. And then over the last almost a year now that we've been buddies, it's obviously had a dramatic shift. So what is it? What is it about that that has changed for you? Like, I think if we've talked about this slightly before, but I mean, I think and I've said this before a couple of times. Yeah, both the current states of both games, I think overprime is more fun. However, that could definitely change and it definitely will change as time goes by and predecessor adds more stuff. For example, they just added better sound effects and the kill feed in the center. That makes the game more fun for me. That makes predecessor just that ratchets predecessor up another notch. So will will I think that that do I think that I'll always enjoy overprime more than predecessor? Maybe maybe not. I don't know. But we'll see in the future once predecessor is able to add more stuff in. But right now overprime is the more complete game. And I also feel that individual individual skill contributions to the game are far more rewarded in overprime than predecessor, especially from a support standpoint. I feel that I can carry a team. Oh, I feel that I can carry a team to victory on Decker and overprime. However, it doesn't matter what kind of insane fucking crazy stuff I'll pull out of my ass on Richter. If the enemy team takes three Raptors, I'm fucked. Yep. And Fred, yeah, I mean, Raptors is the highest priority. Absolutely. And not everybody understands that. And that's definitely a gap in knowledge that the community will hopefully eventually learn. Right. Again, they can improve. They can improve. Yeah. The only Raptor that you can afford to disregard is the first one. After that, you have to if you're doing anything other than that, you're you're being less than optimal. You jungle mains can probably attest this more than me. But my my take as a non jungle main is that jungle matters insanely more in Pred than it does in overprime. I still think it matters in overprime. They'll get me wrong. I think neutrals are a huge part of winning in overprime. But you can absolutely win games in overprime without having to worry too much about jungle. Whereas I feel like if if you don't prioritize jungle as a team, as a team, not even just as an individual jungle, but the jungle matters so much more in predecessor, which is I think a good identity to have. But you need everybody on the same page to be able to do to do what you need to do in in Pred. I feel like whereas overprime, even if your jungler is just by themselves focusing the neutrals, it's it's it's effective, right? But does that make sense? So you two are both the jungle main. So do you? Yeah, I'm surprised. I I you know, I didn't expect that to to hear that from you because I basically what I've always heard more was kind of like, oh, Pred's jungle doesn't matter. And I always disagreed with that because there's a lot of decisions that aren't readily obvious, especially in any kind of stats. Like one thing that I want to advocate for people to stop doing is just opening up damage numbers at the end of the game and and go, oh, I did I did more damage than everybody else. But why does my team suck? I'm bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, number, better person, brother, that number doesn't tell the story of how the game unfolded. And oh, yeah, I had a support game. I went like one in 12 and Pred and we won. So did I suck or did I do well? You know, I think. Yeah, for the for the jungle thing, I think predecessor's jungle matters more through the course of the entire game. I think there are moments in overprime, specifically between eight minutes and 20 minutes that the overprime jungle becomes a huge importance to your game. Yeah, post 20 minutes significantly less comparatively to post 20 minutes of predecessor, right? Where the specifically it centers around objectives. The jungle itself is a wash, right? That's going to depend on the character you're playing, the skill level of the player themselves and all of that. That's a wash, right? Gang potential relatively awash. You can get ganked 500 times and win games as evidenced by Viking getting ganked every five seconds. And we win plenty of games in both of these. But why they love ganking me, dude? It's like at games, bro. I'm always getting ganked in terms of being the jungler's priority, especially because you can only have one swight and predecessor being the jungler's priority, predecessor's jungle is worth a hundred times more than overprimes the vast majority of the time. Just I want to point out, too. Yeah, I know they're team games. So like your individual skill level shouldn't matter as much as the teams overall skill level. I want to point out, I want to clarify that I feel that. My skills contributed more to the team's overall. Success and overprime that it does in fault. If I play a bad game of our predecessor, if I play a bad game in predecessor, like we can still win just because the team's good or if I play a really good game, we still lose because the team's bad. Like I don't feel like my actions have as much of effect on the outcome of the game and predecessor as they do in overprime. Again, though, that can change. They got plenty of time to balance shit. Yeah, it's just personal experience, too. That's just, yeah, it's a subjective thing. I disagree with it. It's completely fair. Completely fair. There have been moments that I think to being used this point, I think that it depends on the moment, right? Like I play a lot of grucks offline in in Pred and there's been a lot of times where I am popping off as grucks in a team fight and we're fighting over things and I get like a triple kill or something like that. And it feels awesome, right? But I would say that more times than not, it's not that. It's almost always that like somewhere else on the other side of the map, way far away from me, some team fight breaks out and somebody gets boofed and then they take over the game from there. And that's that's the part I think I struggle with in predecessor because as a now in a 5v5 situation, Pred will probably showcase a lot more of that high end macro and strategy where you're able to balance it and get it back and forth and stuff like that. But currently with it being, you know, just pick up games, you're going to have way less coordination and when you have less coordination in a highly strategic game, the team that manages to coordinate, even if it's by accident, more is going to win more games. And then and I think a lot of that just has to do with how strong the neutral buffs are. And it's not me advocating, though, for them to reduce the strength of those buffs. It they maybe need to look at it and tweak it a little bit. But I think it's more about just the way that the game flows. What's the solution? Just play Chimera. Just play Chimera, just play more games. Perhaps he's the strongest character in the game. You might be right. Vision is also a huge, huge thing. I did get a huge fucking essay by horse on how to put out vision a little bit better. But I still think vision in predecessor sucks. It's yeah, the thing is this, it's like you're shooting in the dark all the time. And it vision is dictated. I mean, the thing is this. So if you have one jungler with century ward and one without the jungler with century ward, their team should always be crushing it because the jungler should be clearing the gank lanes. And then like coordinated team is like jungler clears gank lane mid, mid comes in and then they they all collapse. And we will have that organization in time. We're not that the community is not there yet, but you're right. And I it feels underwhelming, I agree. And but, you know, the it's like, how do you find the balance? If it's too big, then it's too easy. If it's too small, you're shooting in the dark. And I guess they're just hoping that whoever shoots better. I think part of it as well as they need the third legal legends, the prime example for this, right? They need the third vision option, something that is always visible, but also reveal other wards because right now being only stuck to your trinket, right, where you can either get free wards or get free century feels bad when you have either a the money to spend on something like an extra ward or be want to spend some more money on wards to try and control a little bit better or have some opportunities to counter vision while still keeping your trinket ward or something like that, like something to make it more effective, like supports, for instance, supports that when their crest upgrades, it upgrades into wards that they're just so well, they can't if they lose out by on the century, because now they decided to have a support crest. So now if you add in a control ward equivalent, where it's a ward that's always visible, but reveals other wards around it, supports can now counter ward and ward at the same time and still provide a lot of help to their team in that regard. Can I take this as an opportunity to educate anybody interested in predecessor? Because the only role that gets sentries is junglers. And that's a mistake, too. High level solo laners will will get the century ward. Because guess what? The chances are the enemy solo laner has normal wards and a smart jungler, they have a sense of, OK, this ward is this lane is warded. They're going to avoid it and go elsewhere because that's where their time is better spent. So why don't you just play a little bit more defensively, try to manage the the lane to be on your side of the map and also get grab that century ward as an off laner and clear the wards for the jungler. Because I guarantee you once you get a ward, call for a gank and then you guys are just going to faceroll that enemy solo laner. And that's the thing. It's the overall skill level of the community. It's not there, and I believe it will be. But, you know, yeah, vision vision is is it's it's it's not in the best, but I hope it improves, that's all I can say. But are you guys interested in my criticisms of your spicy video? I mean, the thing is, OK, let's let's let's wait. Let's save that for the end, though, in the interest of keeping the show moving, we're going to have to get the overprime eventually. I'm sorry, but yeah, it I'm more than happy to do that at the towards the end of the show tonight. So you guys can look forward to that, apparently. And but let's let's move on now to to overprime. So overprime, they added a winter event to so the map completely changed. They reintroduced some of the old epic asset winters winter themed skins and they introduced their own skins for Shimbee and Rampage, which are fucking amazing. So good. They're really, really good. Yeah. And. Yeah. And get 11 new heroes that they lowered the they give you not only 11 new heroes, but they lowered the the account level you need for for ranked mode from 10 to five, which I think was a mistake anyway. But anyway, let's move on. There's a lot more as a result of all of these different changes. There's a lot more people playing ranked and overprime now than than there used to be. So first off, let's start off on a good foot. Let's talk about these fucking skins because these skins are insane. They're so good. I saw somebody in their discord saying overprimes just give away all these get all these heroes so they could sell more skins. I'm like, yeah, but what the fuck was wrong with that? You don't want to spend money. You get more heroes. If you do want to spend money, you get to spend money. Every game has a shimmy in it now, whether it's because people are wanting to try shimmy to see us cheer. I think she's great. I'm happy to see more people trying shimmy because I think maybe people are intimidated initially by looking at her kit or something like that. But I'm happy to see. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. OK, OK. I'm happy to see more people playing a different character, but it was it's just like everybody is playing shimmy. Not everybody has the skin, but I wonder if they're pulling a me because I like, you know, I'm going to play some shimmy. See if I really like her before I pay the money because I really want that skin. But I don't want to buy a skin for a champion that I'm not going to be playing. I'm still on the fence. I don't really play her that well, but I had fun playing her and that skin would make me, I think, happier while I play her. I don't know the money on that skin so fast. Oh, dude, it was yeah. Well, you play her, though. You actually like playing shimmy. They're right now. She's it's a it's a great skin. I think the the the other one is really good to the rampage skin. I think it's not as good as the shimmy one. I think shimmy one takes it, but it's still really, really cool. He throws a fucking big ass snowball at your fucking face. You only say it's not as good because he's not as cute as Shinbi is. That otherwise, that skin is just as good. How can it suit me? It is perfection. It suits me. I don't care. And you haven't seen the the butt on that skin. So definitely incredible, incredible. I'll inspect it. Oh, by the way, my friend, Nick, Todd, I was talking about Countess in Fred versus Over Prime. He said that the Over Prime's passive for Countess was Improved Ass. I had never noticed. They really did make her butt bigger and her boobs bigger in Over Prime. Like your base character model, like she got an ass, like she got a tiny little booty in Fred. You go over to Over Prime and look, there's like a very defined fucking ass cheeks on Countess. It's kind of hilarious. Big meme Countess. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's so funny. Bigger number, better person. Yeah, my friend, Moxie, he just always talks about it. Countess. Countess. He's never refers to her without it. And what about the map, guys? How do you guys feel about that? Wait, wait, wait, wait. You said I shouldn't be. Wait, wait, wait. I have a bone to pick with you, Viking. Yeah, please do. You said she'd be is great. I have never disagreed with you more in my life. She's phenomenal. She's phenomenal. Yes. That's great. Design characters that has ever existed in any mobile ever. God damn. That's all right. I do think she's I think she is amazing. I think you're you're I agree with you, actually. I take back what did I say? Great. And you said phenomenal. She is phenomenal. I agree with you. And with the skin, she's like whatever the next above phenomenal is really nice. It's it's very nice. The other Christmas skins, though, the nice thing with those is you can buy them with the renner. The Jeremy Renner's as Mangoose would say. But yeah, you can buy them with in-game currency. You don't have to spend money on those skins. I didn't know that. Yeah. The bear gone asset skins. You can buy with the in-game currency. The Christmas ones you can buy with in-game currency. I bought the Calari skin with in-game currency. I had no fucking clue. That's a whole bunch of overprime skins that are from Epic Assets or recolors. I think people said, I don't know about the recolors directly, but that you can buy with just plain in-game currency. The thing now one is garbage. I'm just going to throw that out. He looks like he looks like a scuffed Grinch. That's just my take. We'll talk to Epic. I get it now. It's Christmas themed, but don't ever pick that skin on my game again. It's a nice word. I've never gone into a terrible. That's what I feel like now. Right. And I wear the skin myself. So I'm being honest. I try to annoy other people with that. It's gross. What about the map, boys? How do you guys feel about the snow map? And they need to get the fuck out of ranked. 100%. I love the map. I think it's cool. I love that they change the ambient sounds in the jungle to like. Yes, it's like wintery blowing and like and you got like loons in the background instead of like birds. Well, I mean, loons are birds. But anyway, you get you get what I'm saying. It's different birds. But yeah, it needs to get the fuck out of ranked because you can't read chat on that goddamn snow map. Wraith is damn near invisible. And you can still see rampages, big ass, even though he has the Snow John skin. But yeah, I don't think it has a place in ranked. Those are my two main gripes is it should not be in competitive game modes, period. But at bare minimum, give me an option to toggle it off. I've heard so many people complaining that the performance has suffered because of all the new assets on the map. Right. You should not be getting hurting players experience in your game because you decided to be have a map theme. Right. It like fault did, I think, a great job with that. And every time they had a themed map, they had a toggle that you literally could just turn it off in game at any time. I think that is the way to do these games have to go. And even League of Legends does that that you can if they have custom items on the map, you can just turn to choose to toggle them off. And I think that is a bare, bare, bare minimum for overprime if they're going to do themed maps in the future. So I do want to say, first, I think it's cool that they did it. Right. I'm glad that they put it together and they brought it together for this winter season. I think it's I think it's beautiful. It is, you know, obviously it's without a better word. It is very whitewashed, right? You're obviously lacking a lot of color now, but I think it's still cool. I do think I love that they included the sound changes, right? Like you run around on the on the snow, you hear the different crunching of snow versus gravel or something like that. But it has made like skill shots are harder to notice. You know, some champions do blend in way too easily. So it's not a complete success, but I applaud the effort, I guess is where I'm at, because I think it's fun for it's a need for fun moment. I do agree that it shouldn't be in ranked because I definitely think that on lower performing machines, you might be experiencing some some issues with it. Even on my I like to believe a pretty decently high rig. I occasionally will have some issues and I've noticed some of the bugs with Xena, especially have come back on the snow map that weren't there on the old map before they added the snow. So I don't know what changed. But yeah, I think having anything toggleable would be a boon to the success of it. But I'm happy that it exists. Let's just say that. Yeah, it's really awesome that it exists, absolutely. It's festive. People like to get involved in events, especially limited time events. That's a huge draw. The only kind of complaint I want to levy against the snow map is I watched some like very competitive over prime players that stream. Well, thanks for watching my stream, man. I appreciate you. And well, some of them don't have great computers. And the map on the low settings. You would just want the normal map over that one. So just please over over prime devs, take that into account because it's I love the overall effort and idea, though. I just want to get that, you know, big true. The skins are awesome. Big success on the skins. Yeah, again, like this is not my third point like most important point for Pred versus OP, but Pred is very behind on skins. Yeah, like, yeah, maybe they have some behind the curtain. But right now it's like overprimes the clear winner. I was telling me this the other day, but the specifically the Shinbi and Rampage skins, right? The Paragon skins I'm not talking about. But those two skins really set the bar for what 3D MOBA skins should look like and should feel like when they're at that price point, right? The fact that they have custom VFX, custom audio, custom models in the case of like Shinbi's rain wolf turns into a reindeer. Brilliant, right? Like so many little yeah, the jingle bell sounds whenever you're backing the the everything about them is very it feels very customized. It feels very unique to that skin that I'm not going to find it by buying a different Shinbi skin, a different Rampage skin. So at that price point, they've really set the bar even for games like Aetherial, right? Like if we're doing snow skins, that that's kind of the level that they're setting for 3D MOBA skins now at this point. Everyone refers back to smite skins as examples for like the levels of the quality change for the skins. And now overprime is doing the same thing as they're setting the new level that others are going to be held to. I agree. I only think that the bar was set higher from Paragon. I mean, but the thing though, let me clarify. They revealed a total of five tiers of skins. And I think the only tier five skin that they had was Cowboy Murdock. And all we were ever shown was concept art, but that skin was supposed to have effects changes, sound effects changes. Like it was it was going to be like the cost of an actual full game, like $50, $60. It never saw the light of day. But I think the game that has those skins. Oh, yeah, you better believe they're going to be making a lot of money. Well, that's the whole thing. People will buy them, especially the hardcore players. Like, I mean, you can look at League of Legends, like there's some really ridiculously priced skins in there. People bought those because it's their favorite champion. It's fucking crazy cool looking and they went for it. I mean, I think League really set the standard on what you can get with in-game cosmetics and that and probably Fortnight. I know we don't like the F word around here, but Fortnight really did. I'm not even a big Rampage player and I bought the Rampage skin. Yeah. Right. Because that was like for the occasional time that I do play Rampage, I want that skin to be the skin I'm rocking. Right. I don't want none of these other garbage skins in comparison. Right. I want his lava skin is pretty good. Garbage compared to the Snow John skin. Get out of here. Just wait until next summer. You're dunking on people as Snow Rampage and they don't have those skins. Just yeah, exactly. Oh, 100 percent. Oh, yeah. 100 percent. I'm just going to throw a quick wrench into the works real fast and say that I've said this a lot of times. I need to say it again. Fortnight did not kill Paragon, but the decision to cancel Paragon was made well before Fortnight Battle Royale ever came out. Fortnight did not kill Paragon. It made the decision easier, certainly in the end, like if they may have been having reconsiderations. But the decision to kill Paragon to close down the servers was made well before Fortnite Battle Royale. I just had. I just got to put that out there, man. Yeah. But you know what? Let's let's just play devil's advocate here. What if Paragon was closed for fortnight? Let's let's just weigh the options, right? One of the most wildly successful and profitable games ever. Yeah, I think I think I made the right choice. I think I think it's doing just fine. I think we made the right move. You got. Yeah, you guys, you guys can have Paragon. I'll take fortnight and then I'll build my own pair on two point now. I saw that. Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. Give me fortnight all day long if I'm fucking epic, dude. They literally changed the way that every game approaches not not only just monetization, they changed the way that you have cross play. They changed matchmaking. They changed the type of what the what you do with third person and first person, you know, shooters. It it revolution the season. It revolutionized the current version of what we consider most modern games, I think, across the board, not even just in their genre, because I and I still think this is the crazy thing. I am blown away that more games don't just copy the fucking fortnight model like the fortnight battle passes. And I've said this a bazillion times. The fortnight battle passes or season passes they do are fucking awesome. You have a progression system of getting one skin that looks base model and as you go, it gets cooler and cooler and cooler until you have this bad ass epic skin at the end of it, plus all the other stuff along the way. And they do it to where you if you play all the way through, you earn enough of the in game currency to buy the next pass outright. Or you can use that currency to buy another skin that pops up. It's so smart. It's literally the smartest way, I think, to make money and you're right, free to play games personally. That's my take. You're right. No, to make money, you're right. 100 percent. And it's fun for the consumer, too. If you love that game, you're going to enjoy going through that battle system. Yeah, I mean, if you love the game and you have fun with the game, I mean, let's be real here. We're all here supporting games that we find fun. Ultimately, that's the number one. Yeah, all right. Yeah. And then we all advocate and fight for the game that we find the most fun. We could all agree there. Now, the thing is with what you said about like every game should do that. I disagree. And now I'm not like I really I appreciate Hideo Kojima as, you know, just an incredible developer of video games. And I respect one thing that he said, where he actually said to himself, like, if I want to make money, I would just we create a battle royale with guns on an island or something like that. And now let me tell you right now, that's stranding. That's not everybody's cup of tea. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Let's play a futuristic FedEx man. Yeah, I'm. Yeah. And you have people just fucking you up when you're trying to deliver a package. Let me live in peace. I'm walking. Like a walk in the mountains. I'm getting snowed. I just fell about 150 feet. Yeah, my packages are too heavy. I got a fell over. Yeah. Can you fuck off? I'm just delivering mail. Why am I so offensive to you? Basically, that's what I felt like the whole time I played it. Is it a bad time to tell J.Py? There's a second one coming. I know I'm not happy. I was I was all about the first one I supported it. I'm like, yeah, we need this kind of difference in video gaming. But I don't want to. I'm like, I have to play the second one, but I don't want to. I'm going to be I'm going to have to like. You TSD or something very heavy and then I'm going to have. Anyway, the things is so. It's great, Viking Jedi, you are 100 percent right to make money. That's the absolutely that's the right approach. But I hope that they they sacrifice money for our happiness. Maybe a little something more for us. And with the overprimes move of giving eleven or twelve random heroes, if you log in for me, I thought that was so awesome because we were in moaning, crying all the way home. Yep. And they said, you know, we're sorry, guys. We fucked that one up. Yeah, I honestly think that they were smart enough to like plan it all out and anticipate that. But regardless, they gave it to us. And I think they'll have a knowledge. I got you. I'm going to. I'm happy with that. You gave me eleven heroes. Thank you. That was a good one. I agree with you. I want to go back to what Manga said earlier about lowering the ranks level from 10 to five. They definitely saw that there weren't enough people in ranked, so they dropped the level for the of what it took to get into the ranked. I'm going to go back to what I said last week. The the hero, if I have enough heroes to play ranks when I hit level 10, I have no problem with level 10 being the requirement. Yep. Right. As long as when I hit level 10, I can get into ranked, right? That that's the stipulation. And even if maybe I'm one hero off, but I only need a couple more games to get them. Fine. Right. If as long as I'm achievably close when I hit the first marker of getting into ranked, that's fine. When you dropped it to level five, assuming they're not going to just give everybody forever these first eleven heroes, now you have no chance on having all the heroes by level five to get into ranked. You are going to struggle then going forward. And I think that's going to prove problematic for them in a different way in the future. I think not only those points, because I think they're all very valid. I also think that it killed quick play a little bit because you have people getting into they're only having to level up to level five, which I don't think takes that long. And once they're there, they're going in. They're going to go if they're like most of us, I think they're going to go and try their hand at their placements and start doing their placement matches, which is its own. See, that's the thing to people forget. Placements are their own almost their own separate queue. You're going to be placed against more people who are in their placements, not already complete with their placements to get your placements done. So it's like it's almost like it's hidden third queue system. So it by having at level 10. So I kind of hope they go back to it by having it at level 10 and make sure that there's still a relatively hungry and and thriving quick play system. Because like that's what in League of Legends, I think that's why a lot of those modes still survive really well is because people who are wanting to level up alts or whatever are having to get to level 30 first before they can go into ranked. So they're going to have to play some of these other modes. Now, granted, you might get your ass handed to you by a challenger main who decided to make a new account and is playing quick play, you know, and he's just going to stomp all over you because he's better than you at everything. But I just think it ruined a little bit of the health of quick play where people are wanting to, you know, just kind of log on and have fun because the queue is so fast to go over to to competitive. Stunt said take away the requirement for the hero requirement. I think you need that because got picks and bans. And yeah, you can't take away hero requirements if you have bans in your game. I'll tell you something I experienced in one of my placement matches, which I almost fell out of my chair. I was laughing so fucking hard. So you can trade like you pick your lane that you want, but you can trade afterwards. So if you want to prioritize, if your team wants to prioritize like rampage, which is a huge prioritization, he's either banned or picked every game for ranked. If you want to prioritize that, you can. So the guys in the team, the one dude said, can you pick Murdoch for me? I want to play Murdoch. And the guy that locked in mid lane was like, OK, but you need to pick gadget for me. He's like, sure, that works. So the guy picked locks in Murdoch and then the other dude locks in howitzer. He's like, wait, what about gadget? He's like, I don't own gadget and I lost my shit. I was like, that sucks so bad. His motherfucker gave up his his opportunity to pick, like at least the guy picked howitzer, not something completely ridiculous. But holy shit, dude, didn't even he could have said it before. You know, he knew it. He knew he knew it, but that was so fucking funny. Yeah. What a dick. It is a field bet. I've had that happen a couple of times in my game, see where the guy was like, oh, hey, pick me. So-and-so, he's like, I don't have so-and-so. OK, well, pick me this guy. I don't have that guy. OK, well, then just pick you for jungle. He ended up locking in Severog jungle and he's like, dude, I've never played Severog jungle. And I was like, OK, I will. I will play jungle. You take Severog in the off lane or whatever. But it forced us as a team to have to try and it sucks. But that's also in like and Jelly knows this. It's in league. There's some you just don't have all the champions. I don't I'm torn on it. I always thought it was weird to have champions needing to be unlocked. I feel like it's like a by proxy paper power because if you have money, you can just unlock everybody and you will if there's an OP champion, then not everybody owns. You now have a slight advantage because they're overpowered and you could very much make the argument that gadget is exactly that because she's still fucking broken and shit. And going on things that they still need to fix. I had because somebody mentioned in chat and the only reason I'm bringing it up and I know most everybody agrees that bushes still suck. I hate that that you can shoot out of bushes and you're fucking invisible during it. If you take damage while you're in the bushes, you're still fucking invisible. I hate it. I think it's stupid. It benefits range characters so much or characters with CC because they can proxy their CC and just you can't do anything about it. I I hate it. I think that's probably one of the biggest things I hate about. That's my biggest complaint about over from right now. Yeah. Yeah, all I can add to that is like I didn't encounter that problem with the bushes. But I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense. And with overprime, what was the point before that? Right before, I'm sorry. I just I lost it. I was talking about gadgets. Oh, well, yeah. Well, yeah, that's what it was. So that's one of the biggest challenges. And it's hard to get right. And so I'm not upset with team. So leave for for, you know, the who knows what's the proper way to go about it? Because, you know, what's the the reality is this? And I think this is the best way to go about it. Allow everyone to pick their favorite hero in the role. Give them one free pick of every every role. Because I'll tell you what, I don't mind playing in grinding points. If I get to play my favorite hero in every role, you know, it would be incredible, right? Because generally, I think a lot of people are locked out of access to the heroes that they want. And to your point, Viking Jedi, we got to we got to recognize what it is, right? It's it's part of the business model. The hero that they're releasing, generally, 90 percent of the time is going to be overpowered because they want everybody to be everyone to be picking it. Everybody to be buying it. That's that's that's actually part of the business model now. And I respect it because the way I have confidence that the studios will tune them appropriately after they want to sell that, so I could respect it. But it is it's a it's a delicate dance to dance in terms of your what heroes you have available at RankQ and just the the population. I mean, it's it's a lot of things to juggle and Team Soul, they have they they're going to have to work hard to solve it. I don't envy them, I'll be honest. It's not it's not a simple problem. Well, to that credit, too, they are quickly learning that they have to balance around two major regions, right? So the West and the East and the West. We have a very different take on what we are OK with and not OK with versus the East. You know, it's kind of a meme, I think, at this point. But like, you know, in Korea, you know, they're way more OK with a lot of what we would consider predatory practices. They're they that's just standard for them at this point. They're way OK with it. Black Desert Online is like a perfect example of that, you know, probably the top Korean MMO. But it's it's just not the case for the Western audience. And I think what we're seeing from them right now is some of those growth, you know, pains of them having to realize like, hey, we do have it's not just that we're, you know, making this game for Korea anymore, or for for our Asian market. There's a lot of people over here that are really enjoying it. I mean, we've seen it in the fixes to translation. They're putting out a lot more English content. They're really trying to push towards it. So I think we are trying to be patient with them. But at the same time, they're backed by a billion dollar company. I kind of at this point expect them to be able to cater the game in a good way. And this is the other thing, too, is I think they do themselves a disservice when they when you feel like you have to go a certain way. Like what J5 was saying was like, well, I want to release this character. It's going to be a good way for us to make money. Well, you've already been making you probably made a fuck ton of money with these two skins that you released. I bet you almost anybody who had a disposable income bought those skins. Like they like and I've been fighting myself buying those skins and I have disposable income. And the only reason I have it is because I don't play those guys. But they're so fucking cool. I want them. There's a lot of people who have less strength than I do and I bought the skins, right? I mean, I just I think it's it's not. It's it's at this point, it's not fair to just be like give them a pass because we understand that it's a business and they need to make money when it's still in a way to my thinking, a pay for power. Like again, like Xena being more expensive to buy for free, like with using their in game currency, fine. You know what I mean? But like you have to but being more expensive through the paid for currency, that bothers me. You know, I just I don't like it. I think I think at this point, all characters should just be unlocked. You should just it's twenty twenty three have the characters playable when they become available, make make really cool skins or something else cosmetic, have battle pass system or something else. That way you can monetize your game. Don't hide things behind a paywall that actually impacts gameplay because again, if you don't have gadget and the other team does, it can have a huge impact on your game currently. And it's because it's behind a paywall or an on wall, depending on how you look at it. Well, that makes a nice kind of a nice segue into another topic I wanted to talk about because you were talking about them compensating for East versus West and expectations. They made revisions to their privacy policy because their privacy policy in N.A. is extremely intrusive from what from what we're used to. However, it's very common for Korea and Japan. So they kept their privacy policy. They kept that verbiage in the wording in their privacy policy for Korean and Japanese players, but they changed it for everybody else because everybody felt that it was extremely intrusive. And it kind of it kind of was. But again, that was just common practice in Korea for them to have that. But since but they did hear the outcry and they changed it very quickly so that what you're agreeing to isn't as harsh as what it used to be. Another thing I wanted to say, though, is I keep seeing comments about how Over Prime has spyware. That's because of the design code, their anti cheat software. They're saying people are saying it's spyware because it scans your hard drive. You know what else scans your hard drive? Easy anti cheat, which predecessor uses and like every other fucking anti cheat out there scans your goddamn hard drive. They overprime doesn't have spyware. All right. Like I've personally confirmed with the developers that the parts of the design code that can be used maliciously from reports of other games are completely not even in overprime. And it's something that they were aware of existed in design code and actually shut off before shipping the game because they they knew it existed. But that was the thing they had access to. That was the thing I am sure probably net marble is the one enforcing design code on them and that that but they actually purposefully shut down the parts that people are worried about as well. Because that's something before the final beta test, people were worried about. And so I reached out to the developers that got a direct comment and screenshot from one of the developers saying that's not in the game. I just hate when people say something maliciously untrue about a game in order to disparage that game. And I think that's what people are doing. They did enough research to find something they didn't like and then they go with it. They didn't research just a little bit deeper to find out more about it and what's been changed. I also want to say because it was part of the blog that the privacy policy stuff, they said that it was in there in the verbiage. But it but it wasn't stuff that they were collecting on in the first place. So you could take that for what you will, right? But I would imagine they wouldn't have said it if it wasn't true, because they could obviously be held liable for it. And to me, that made me feel a little bit better in a sense, because obviously a lot of the privacy policies and privacy in general is becoming a bigger and bigger, hotter topic. Right. Like what data are you collecting? What are you going to do with that data once you have it? And if it's going offshore, I mean, TikTok is like a huge example of that. Right. Like that it's people are freaking out. There's legislation currently in Congress about, you know, what TikTok does and doesn't do Facebook, for example. So I get people's concerns about it and I'm happy to see that they were on top of it fairly quickly, put out a thing, made sure that they had changed the verbiage because from what their perspective, they weren't even they maybe said they had the ability to access it, but they weren't accessing it anyway and based off the privacy policy, but now they've completely removed it. So it's not like they were collecting your data, had the back this backlash and then decided to start, you know, to change it and not collect data anymore. They weren't collecting it in the first place. It was just what was the standard verbiage in their privacy policy. So I was at least happy to hear that. I want to quickly talk about skins again for as a comparison. And I promise you guys, I'm not saying this is a dig at predecessor. A predecessor has not implemented their skins nor their pricing yet. And so as such, I'm going to keep giving them my personal feedback of what I would like to see when that does happen. Epic asset skins at the same full price as your custom skins is a bad choice, in my opinion. When we look at overprime, I now have a direct example that I can give you, specifically the rampage skin. The rampage skin is $21 in cost. The dark golem skin, which is that like dark rock skin that was in Paragon that was a tier three. I don't remember what the tier systems were, but it was a higher tier skin for Paragon skins is $7. They're selling me something that is a similar model quality at bare minimum, a model quality to this new skin for a third of the price, and I still bought their personal IP over that skin. The lower price of the Epic asset did not dissuade me from paying $21 for their skin on purely looks alone. I didn't know it even had visual effects. I didn't know it had custom audio. I didn't know any of those things when I bought it and I still paid three times the price for a brand new IP skin compared to an Epic asset. That I firmly believe that charging. If that dark golem skin was $21 and the comparatively to the Snow John skin is $21, the value of the dark golem is vastly overvalued in comparison now to what we're getting from the legendary skin that that overprime is implementing. I have a very small caveat that is not in any way related to this, but it's live on here. Fucking if you're in Paragon over the prime, pull the camp, pull the fucking deer up the ramp on your side of the jungle. Please pull your fucking stop fighting in the middle of the pit, dude. OK, pull it up. It will aggro around. Pull it up there. Pull it up the fucking ramp up the stairs. That's that's my my my PSA, dude, because I just saw it online. And so fucking annoying when people just sit there down there and fighting in the pit and then a fucking gadget comes in and just shits all over us with their fucking full kit. You hear me yelling that constantly. And I get so pissed when I'm pulling it up the ramp and jelly comes in is like, I don't give a fuck where the deer is. I'm going to fight it right here. Yeah, yeah. But I've recently changed my ways on that man. OK, anyway, I didn't mean to fall off deviate because I agree with your statement on the point further proven. If I'm willing to pay three times the price for your own skin, stop trying to charge me three times the price for an epic asset. Because if I want to pay the seven dollars, I'll just pay the seven dollars. But the their proprietary skin got me to spend twenty one dollars. Yeah, I mean, you guys touched upon it in the previous episode. I don't know if we're talking about it, but it was the fact that predecessor charged the same price for like the epic skins. And the simple answer is it's because like it's 20 we are going to make up like less than 10 to 20 percent of the community once they start spending marketing money. Here you go, new players. Here's some marketing money. Come come check our game. We're going to be so small and that in most of those players, they're not even going to know that was. Oh, that's an epic asset that existed in 2016. They're not going to know. And that's what they're going to spend that money. And that's why I don't like it as somebody who has been here since the very beginning of Paragon. But I understand from a business business standpoint, they're just trying to. It's like there is work to be done from the epic assets. And they're just capitalizing it on. This is where I go into you cannot forget the people that got you there. 100 percent agreed from a business perspective, and you're pushing it that, yeah, you can get more money from the people that don't know better. Where's my corn? It's true. What's in there? Although I actually. But you can't just spit in the face of the people that do know it's an epic asset either. J.Pyre is your turn. True. But no, no, no, no, no, no. Let J.Pyre go, let J.Pyre go. Yeah, you off, yeah. But you know what? Guess what? If you piss off 7 percent of the overall population that plays your game, you're going to survive. That's I don't like giving that answer. I don't like to be the bear of a potential population. No, no, but you're you're also using potential populations. Yes. Yes. Yeah, but you don't have a population to get to that potential. It doesn't matter. Yeah, you're right. Potential. That's why I say you have to find a balance. Jelly, let the man talk. Let the man talk. They're they're they're taking a risk. Yeah. And you're right. 100 percent. Because if they if that potential population never materializes, well, guess what? You're you're you just pissed off your most advocate supporters. And that's what I'm saying. And you're dancing with a very pretty girl and it's a fine line to dance. You know, you want to pull that extra move where you spin her around and then she trips. Good luck, buddy. Yep. But you know what? If you spin her around and she's smiling afterwards. All right, Jedi, Jedi, you got you got your point. I'll let you go now. Thank you. Moderating. Yeah, no, I'm not trying necessarily to make this a 2v1. But what I will say this is that's a fine argument in a vacuum where you're the only one that exists and the only one that has access to those epic assets. The harsh reality is that over prime exists and is already has a bigger audience than predecessor does. So as much as I hate to complete to compare the two, because I do think at least as games, they can exist in co-dependency. If you're looking at business models, one one is doing things that you are not doing and is showing a higher level of success and and and a higher quality because even their epic recent epic access. I'm sorry, epic skins are recolored, re-upped, made to look a more high definition to match the regular the other cosmetics of their game. Whereas if you look at predecessor skins, pretty one for ones of the old school Paragon ones. And I just to me, I'm sitting here going like, you know what, if I'm looking at this and if there's two games with the same assets, there's going to be people going to be confused. You've already seen it. You'll be like, wait, why is so and so game ripping off such in such game? What the fuck? You know what I mean? And then if you now you're going to have those same guys, you're going to have those same guys who are going like, wait, this same skin exists in this game, but it looks better and it only cost me seven dollars and I didn't have to pay to access the game. You know what I mean? Now, granted, when they go to free to play, who knows? But I will say this to predecessor's point, the concept skins that they showed us look really cool. I'm really excited for their IP skins, but in the current iteration of how the businesses are being modeled, I think that Over Prime is running away with it. They are they are not only reaching a larger audience. They're also in early access. They still have lots of bumps and bruises to show for their for where they are in early access. There's still lots of bugs that need to be fixed, but the game is fun. People are logging in every day. They're maintaining really high numbers and people are buying their IP. They're buying their new IP, not not even just the Epic stuff. But if I had only seven dollars to spend and my favorite champion and I wanted that Gideon skin at seven bucks, you got it. You got seven bucks for me versus right now. I don't know if anybody would want to pay twenty dollars for an Epic ask Epic skin. So, yeah, the answer. J.Pie and J.Pie is typing in our Discord chat right now. I will say all this shit as long as it's entertaining and it is entertaining the fuck out of me right now. But I want to bring up a chat's point because chat also has a viewpoint in all this madness. And like Clarice TV is saying, I'm paying premium for Pirate Gideon and Pred. I don't give a fuck if he has it. Game isn't fun to me, so it's irrelevant. People have picked their game. People have picked their game and they will pay whatever to help support that game. So, Clarice brings up my exact point, though. He's going to pay whatever for the skin he likes. For the skin he likes. If Pred comes out with a new Gideon skin and Clarice says, I really like that skin. He's going to buy that skin, even if he already owns under Togideon. Yeah, that's kind of make your point a little bit there. The response I've gotten from predecessor devs is that if they make Epic skins cheaper, it will devalue the skins that they release in the future. And I firmly disagree. 100% disagree. That proven by people will buy multiple skins. If they love the skin, they will just buy the skin. I did not see myself buying skins for Overprime. I'll tell you that right now. But when that fucking either when that snowbell Shinbi came out, by the way, here's another hot take for you. I see a lot of people talking about how they don't like Shinbi's updated model in Overprime. I think it's fucking head and shoulders above old Shinbi. Like new Shinbi fucking get me in, bro. Old Shinbi, she was just kind of cute. New Shinbi, I'd hit that. I would. I'd hit that. You wouldn't stand a chance. Oh, what are you talking about? I'm ruggedly handsome. Ruggedly rugged. I mean, I feel the same way about grucks, dude. Honestly, I would never have considered myself a grucks player. But it would. And this is part of the reason why I think skins have so much power, cosmetics have so much power that the grucks skin that is in Overprime. I think was the best skin in the game. I think the lava skin. I'm not reading it yet because I'm trying to finish my point. The lava skin for grucks is so fucking cool. He looks like a Balrog. You know what I mean? He looks like he came out of the fire lane in Ecos. I think he's so fucking cool looking. I started playing grucks and getting decent on him because of the skin, because I wanted to use that skin. And I'm tempted still by Shinbi because of the same for the same reason. So I think that's the power of of of skins and cosmetics in these games. Oh, my God, what happened? Oh, did I would hit grucks? Yes, I would know the ones again. Buffalo Bill with a hundred cent paper. Sins. Yeah. J.Tab, that got me, dude. Or or or girl, whatever you are. That got me. Holy shit. Yeah, anyway, I just the way I see predecessor skins, right? Is the concept they showed us for Richter and howitzer, right? Specifically, the howitzer skin that sticks out to me is that like astronaut howitzer, where it's a monkey in the mech suit instead, right? Like you got like this, the cosmonaut monkey in the mech suit. I think he's such a cool skin concept, right? And I may buy hot rod howitzer, but I also might buy the the cosmonaut howitzer skin when it comes out because I like both skins. I am not limited to buying just one skin. And I think there are definitely how many of all these skins do you have? All of them, every single one. And I said this to them directly, too. Expedo or sorry. No, there was one crap covetous lemon. I don't fully agree. I feel like most people buy one skin per character and stop there. There are certainly people that will just buy one skin for their character or there are a couple of characters and we'll stop. The rabies that he owns, every skin skin. I have most of the skin skins as well. But for there are plenty of players, the whales in in the right. You always talk about video games appealing to the whales, trying to get whales to spend more money, right? They're not trying to appeal to the person who's only going to buy one skin and stop regardless. They're trying to appeal to me, who's going to buy all the skins, right? And yeah, if you're telling me that the epic asset skin is the same value as your skin, I find that hard to believe to me. That feels like my money's worth less. I'm getting less value out of my money because you're just recycling assets that you didn't make. Right. I want to cut you off just a little bit because I don't know that we're starting to repeat points made, right? Because chat's also chiming in. And obviously, chat, thank you so much for being as proactive in chat and agreeing or disagreeing with us. Grux is best Bay 100% agree. J-Py, I think we're probably getting close to moving to a thorough. But I know you had while Mingus is out and about, did you want to address some of your concerns and pick a fight with the FTM crew about what we've had to hot takes on before? And then when Mingus jumps back in, we'll jump into a thorough to end up the stream. Listen, you boys let me know, but I only have one condition. Once I open up that box, we're not closing it until we're done. So, OK, in another episode, what's up? What's happening? We're ready to have anything to do tonight. So, I mean, I'm down to just keep this argument going back and forth. But no, we do need to talk about a theory, although, no. And we're ready to move on to a thorough. Yeah, let's move on to a theory, but let's fill in Mingus with what just happened. Mingus, so maybe I love it. My list, my just questions that I would love to discuss with you guys on a previous episode, the one that was super contentious. It was a lot of fun. It's great entertainment for the community. We don't have to do it tonight, though. Whenever you guys want to, just let me know. Oh, I'd love to do it tonight. But we do need to let's move on now to ethereal. A thorough, a farty arrow. Ether bunnies. Ether bunnies were Joyce. Let's go. So jelly. Bill, listen on the changes to ethereal. So a big thing in the past, right? We've had we've had a very basic targeting reticle in previous tests, and that was definitely something we wanted to update. And so we have the targeting reticle is now different for melee and ranged characters and may get further customization from here. But this is kind of the baseline of what we're starting with. And with that, it's also added some animations to give you an idea of what's going on purely on a visual standpoint, as well as you'll hear the audio and all that kind of stuff. There's my boy. So one of the biggest things is I'm waiting for, of course, the YouTube video to pop up to know what you guys are seeing. But one of the biggest things is the out of combat in combat state on the targeting reticle by itself. When you're out of combat is just a white diamond on your screen. When you're in that combat state, even if you're not actively fighting, right? There's that cool down of once you've entered combat, right? Then there's a cool down of you exiting combat. It's in that red state. When it switches from red to white, you know you're out of combat. So all of your out of combat effects are going to start triggering with that white transition. The other thing is when you're looking at a target and they're in your range that you will deal damage to them. If you click the left click button, you'll have a little indicator kind of pointing to the center of your screen. Again, that's purely targeting range. That's not dealing damage. That's not anything like that. That's purely if you click, that person's going to take damage because they're in your range. Again, just another clarity aspect. You don't have to look at the line on the ground to see like, are they in my range? I'm not quite sure if I'm going to deal damage to them. You don't need to look at their health bar. Nothing. Just your crosshair by itself will say, yep, they're in your range. Click the button. And then there's also the damage dealt modifier on top of that. When you do click that button, when you deal damage to somebody, you'll get the red X indication that says, yes, the server indicates you did do damage. Congratulations, mission accomplished, right? And so that's going to apply across the board as well for those melee and ranged heroes or myths rather. So the only question I have is with the indicator going red, is that only for auto attacks or like, for example, we're seeing malware here. My boy, so excited that we get to see him. Is his dot, for example, going to also proc off the red crosshair? Or is that only going to be for the auto attacks and the damage will just be popping off? Or do you know? I'd have to double check. Yeah, I don't want to comment because I don't know with 100 percent certainty. I am leaning one direction, but I don't know with certainty. But it might I would have to double check and we can get come back to that in a few moments. But that's good. Well, I find all of these changes to the targeting radicals will be very exciting. I think they're awesome. I think they're amazing changes. They offer so much clarity. I think what the community is really fucking jazzed up about right now, and it's not showing currently is malware. People have been so jazzed up about malware for a long time. If you guys don't know about malware, he's a ranged ADC type character. He's he was a computer virus that gained sentience and infected biological matter. So he's trying to infect everything with his virus. And he's fucking cool. As you can see from him clearing this camp, it'll pop. It'll pop up as as we're rolling through his basic attacks. You see the little blue bar like you can just like with a bow, you can hold it and charge it for higher damage and range or you could just quick fire that shit. So it works a little bit like Hanzo, fucking amazing character. I don't want to distract from the targeting radicals, but goddamn malware, bro. I mean, there's a reason that I included malware in this one. Right. It's it's not. I won't say that the targeting radicals aren't super exciting, but at the end of the day, adding malware in there definitely makes the announcement a little more exciting. How much are you allowed to talk about what malware does? I don't allow to talk about what malware does. I guess means that we are also not allowed to. I mean, we can infer from watching that footage that he has a charged basic attack. So that's why you can also infer from there because I already said there's a dot of damage going off on on them on the camps. So do with that information once you've well, people. He's fucking cool. I know you have a special place for malware, right? Can you explain why? So malware, a large part of malware's kit was something I designed. So malware is very, very close to me in that regard. Right. It was one of the first characters I worked on when I joined the team at ethereal. And that is very special, right? And so hearing like Viking getting excited about it makes me even more excited. And I think you guys will really, really love malware's abilities and kit when the time comes in the future. I want to get into it more, but I can't. If I say too much more about malware, I'll lose my mind. But yeah, I think it's malware has been playable and testing for quite some time. Vikings played malware. I don't know if mangoose has played as malware, but it's played against malware bare minimum. I beat the dog shit out of you, malware versus malware when he first came out. I really did. I really did. It's like the only time I've ever beat you in a game. And I'm fucking, I'm like, acclaimed to that pretty happy about it. The company's low jelly design malware. So it's 80. Kerry Kalari got it. But yeah, so malware holds a special place for me. I wish I could say it was 80. Kerry Kalari. And just his general animations and everything that we can see here is light years beyond what we saw even in the last alpha test that we that we got for ethereal. He looks way, way better than pretty much any other hero I've seen in ethereal, which it's on the new map, too. No less. It's also he's not on the old map that the players last played on as well. MilkDuddy asks, looks dope and hoping to be my go to game. But he's asking, is it still in pre alpha or alpha or beta? I don't know if you guys have a direct term for it at this time, but I'm going to bring it up just in case. I'm going to give the very like millennial like relationship answer of we're trying not to define it right now. If you have to the answer is the short answers. I don't have a great answer for you. I think from a very personal standpoint, I would say we're further than pre alpha, right? Pre alpha is a lot of gray boxes with characters that don't have models and things like that, and we're long past that. But I won't give you a defined area of where we're in of development and what that phase of release is going to be called because that's still something we're talking about internally before we decide on a name, given all the things that like early access is known for or was known for, right? And you have to weigh those considerations before you call your game early access or what whatever. I just say it's EA will understand what you mean. Yeah, exactly. Jesus Christ. No, I think that's a fair statement, though. J-Py, yes. OK. I just wanted to raise my hand for the class. Am I? Yeah, please do. Go for it. When I played the ethereal last time, I had a blast. The hero design was on another level. And I've read man goose. I'm OK, so we're going to have an honest conversation here. Man goose. Oh, last appearance on the for the minions. I've been regularly typing profanities into your for the minions document. That's been me. I'm sorry. Have you really? We have been asking about that for so I thought it was like a Jedi, for real. He's been accusing both of us, actually. He's like, dude, who keeps saying I'm like, it was not me. It wasn't me. And I was like, one episode I wrote man goose to say, like, big old balls. There was like a fake commenter on the video. Man goose obsessed with big balls. I love that. I love the sound of big boobs belting as our topic for discussion for like the last. I was there for so long. I'm sorry. I was being man goose. You were being kind of I take it. What's funny is it's been big boobs bouncing for like the last fucking eight episodes. But I should have finally changed it to little tits and jiggling for this episode. Would you hold it? I was like, I can handle big big boob. But little tits and jiggling. Oh, my God. By the way, chat. So we're talking about our we have like a for the minions, like a sheet that we put together every week. That way we can kind of stay on topic and discuss things. And I thought I was under the impression that it was actually man goose typing this into his own thing that way he could pick fights with me and jelly like that. I think he was just looking for a little bit of drama in his life. You know what I mean? And this is how he was going about it. That's how it hurts. I want to hear something. OK, because of my last for the means appearance, I was like, man, goose, you know, there is a big Google virus going around that's writing random words in your documents. This is ridiculous. Hi, dude. She said I haven't fucking heard about it. Oh, shit. OK, I'll keep an eye out. My jaw hurts, holy shit. I want to just pilgrim's question real quick in the chat. Is it real on UE4 or UE5? Currently, ethereal is on UE4, but we definitely have plans to and we're investigating looking to UE5 as soon as possible because there are a lot of technical advantages to UE5 over UE4 that we really want to explore in ethereal, for sure. And I just want to follow up. Oh, yeah. Hmm. My my closest IRL friend, God King Washington, he is a man of refined haste. You know, he he tips his fedora. He smells the, you know, accoutrement. And so he hates Mobus. He says, I let me tell you, I invited him with my brother and all of our friends to play League of Legends. And he he was like, I fucking hate Mobus. He just left seven minutes into the game and that was the last time he ever played a MOBA. You know what he said to me, Jelani's? What did he say? I fucking hate Mobus, but I'm going to try ethereal. That game looks like. Let's go. We've talked about this before, but in two to your friend's credit, I think that ethereal has probably in a beautiful way to be able to branch out to a lot more as a. It's I think it will be very complicated. It has a very high floor currently, right? Obviously, I think that they're actively working behind the scenes. I don't have any inside knowledge, just me guessing to make it a little bit more accessible to everybody because the game is complicated. It will be with the way that it's all set up. However, I think that once people give it a chance and really sink their teeth into it, it's going to be a game changer, man. I think it's it. That's why I think so many people are rooting for it. It has the potential to really be a genre breaker in this field of third person. Because I don't really think it's really reached its pinnacle, right? And I think ethereal can start to to really, you know, climb that crest and start to set a better example. Because even the current versions of the games that we like to play right now don't really capture the third person shooters in a sense, right? But they don't really play with the the levels and the height and all that stuff, which is also, by the way, has somebody who's played ethereal. It's sometimes hard to keep track of all the shit that's going on above your head. So it's a lot. Well, I think there's ways to to make it better, right? Like, you know, you can have indicators of like, hey, there's somebody flying over your head or something like that. So, you know, that there's things. And again, I have no inside knowledge on whether or not these are things being worked on. And so this just means theorizing of things that can help, you know, make stuff more accessible to new players. But it's really exciting. And I'm stoked that your friends said that. That's super cool. You guys don't know anything about ethereal. I'll tell you right now. Think of like a 12 year old coming up with ideas for a MOBA and they just put all those ideas into the MOBA. Like, it's like, I wish you hold on when a 12 year old conferred. Yeah, pretty much. I would say it's like that that 40 year old D&D player who's always wanted to have their own video game and then got access to being able to make the 40 year old D&D players pretty much just like a 12 year old. Yeah. Oh, well, it's like I wish that I could just break these rocks. You could do that in ethereal. They have destructible environments in ethereal. I wish I could fucking fly. You can fly around in ethereal. You have characters that can literally fly. I wish the maps were I wish the lanes were separate. The lanes are separate. I wish you could have environmental kills. You could pick a motherfucker up and throw them off the side of the map in ethereal and it's crazy. You got people climbing up to rain. You got people doing all kinds of craziness in ethereal. And it's really cool. There's a lot of so for those of you that don't know ethereal or haven't heard this before. Is ethereal character design philosophy is if they have it, they use it, right? And so it's if you've got a shield, one of your abilities will use a shield. If you've got a gun, one of your abilities will use a gun. So many games you see like characters with like little like holsters on their legs where they're holding a gun and they never use a pistol. They're just using their sword the whole time. And you're like, but why is it designed that way? If it's not part of the kit, right? Like why? And a lot of those things and that's 100% in ethereal. If they've got wings, chances are they're going to fly, right? Like it or have some kind of flying ability, leap, whatever it's going to be, right? Like it's a lot of design choice going into how these abilities work out and how they play out in the game, as well as the class system that Manga was talking about with breaking rocks and flying and all that kind of malware. So cool. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Who's the mid lane mage? She has like the. Yeah. Okay. Well, who is her? Who is she? Voxus. This is one of the most fun characters I've ever played in any mobile ever. I play, I literally played her maybe one time and it was like at the closing minutes of ethereal's test. And going back in time, I wish I played her every single game. I wouldn't ever play any other character. She's a lot of fun. She is. Oh, fuck yeah. Better. Jelly, what are those things in Harry Potter? Because the big scary things that like the eat people's happiness. Yeah, that's what that's what malware looks like. And it's fucking awesome. Malware is not a mentor. Doesn't he look like a mentor? Come on, dude. He's the Lord Dimms. Nice call out with the where I still know that's the light. And the character you're seeing on screen is his name is malware. He's a character in a theater. Shit, that's malware. Oh, you know, he looks bad. Yeah, one of my favorite things. This was actually brought up. If you're not part of ethereal's Patreon, you can get information at least a month early on our Patreon. This was brought up on our Patreon when this clip went live. When this clip went live on there, somebody talked about a theory or malware, drawing the bow very low when he barely charges that charge bar, right? And very much like the animation choice, right? Of that when he's pulling the bow, she's short charging, right? So he'll release short and it does it's less range, less damage, right? But when he full charges and brings that thing all the way up, he's gaining the range and the damage increase because he's taking the time to fully bring that bow all the way into position. No, that's not. I'll tell you why. Oh, OK, what is it? Because he's going to kill you with the short charge. So why would he even want to charge? Me, Cap, you can't walk very far. Can you, right? You're not taking error to the knee. I like that, though, as a visual clarity thing, though, right? Because, like, even if you're the enemy, being able to see the difference because, like, I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, what's his name in fucking League of Legends that draws his bow back when his cue? Gary Barz. Barz, exactly. Varus Q is exactly as you see his his range and his queue. The it glows bigger. You know that he's got the full charge of it and all that fun. So I think that even visual visual clarity on on abilities is for this community, right? Sparrow right click. There is no real way to know how far Sparrow has charged her right click when you're looking at her. No, she's always just full, full drawn by the way, which is so stupid. By the way, it's come on. It's not that difficult, right? You like everybody always underchanges Sparrow's right click. Just general ability. I'm just visually in your head and visual clarity is what we're talking about, though. Oh, you're right. I mean, visual clarity. You're correct. Yeah, I don't. The ability itself is nonwithstanding. I'm just talking about visual clarity wise. When she's charging that right click, you don't have that sense of distance that she's going to get based on her charge, right? Whereas this looking at a malware as an enemy, right? When you see him short charging and just releasing, you're like, oh, OK, yeah, he's not he's not full power on those, right? Like you have that concept already set in with malware when you're just looking at him. Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. Yeah, like I'm all 100% of a proponent for all the visual indications and audible indicators to react because the way that I personally feel is that we as players, we all have a toolbox and we have a bunch of tools and it's up to the creators and developers of the game to design these tools. And what all I want to be as a player is to create from the situation. And that's one detail that is absolutely something noticeable. And really, I'm I ethereal. I can't wait to see the future of it. Like just when? When I just win, I have to do it every time because it's going to show up in a comment. So controller support coming to come. Oh, yeah, we're already in the game. Oh, there you go. Hey, there you go. Piece of shit controller players. You can play this game with the fucking controller. Because I want to pre up that with this is a running joke. God, David, don't get so mad at Jeff. I'm so serious. OK, just find your console players, fucking controller players. No, Mingus is right, though, right? So I pissed off people last last fucking show. Dude, I have not had so much hate comments than I got for controller players. Guys, I don't give a shit what you play on. OK, it's just a joke. It started off as a funny thing that I said and and people popped off in live chat. If you're watching this video on the VOD, one, appreciate you being here for the VOD. OK, it's super cool. Thank you for making it this far into the video. But I really don't care what you do. Enjoy the game for yourself. OK, you don't have to meet some talking beard, even though it is a beautiful beard and you should want to impress me. Play the game how you want to play, OK? I'll make jokes at you, though. Oh, there's some controller players out there that that are going to fucking dunk. They have aim assist, so they should. I mean, they're using hacks. You I mean, I am very strongly against aim assist, but it is what it is. It's going to be in the game. And let me tell you, man, especially like, watch out for the controller players that play medium melee roles. Oh, yeah, 100 percent. Yeah, because that's the role that, like, is least dependent on precision. And like he's been complaining about all the gangs in his lane. It's all the controller support players showing up. I think it is, honestly. I think it's the controller kids and the the console kids. They're like, you know what? We see Viking Jedi. We're going to just be in his lane all day making his life hell. That's fine. You know what happened? The other side of my map sometimes is winning. Keep bringing it over here. Come on, I'll fucking is definitely winning if I'm in the game. So I only look for man goose in my games. A lot of people do and a lot of people make me suffer for it. I want to point out Abu Oji's comment. Will you will you read that out for everybody? What did he say? Hold on. He said, if you followed their Patreon, you know, a month in advance when there's an alpha Jedi. Yeah, fair, Tabby. I appreciate that fair. I will say back in Paragon to the controller for melee was actually better because you had more control. Over your hero, because you had more directions because with, you know, a keyboard, you got WSD with a controller. You got more directions and it's pressure sensitive. So you're speed a little bit more. So yeah, controller is actually a little bit better for melee back in Paragon. I don't know if that's true for predecessor or not. I'm sure Ruba has made it. So Ruba, that's kind of his passion. So well, no, let me tell you, man. I've seen some controller players on Fortnite and they achieve things that I did not even anticipate were remotely possible. And the fact that they just completely exceeded and I was critical and they just fucking like if I they would shit on me like 100 out of 100 times. You're bringing up what I would consider like the biggest point is when you get into cross play, right? And when you have cross play and you have controller support. So this is something that modern warfare ran into the Battle Royale when they allowed cross play. And you saw it in Fortnite, too, actually, is you can you can have a keyboard and mouse attached to your console and take full advantage of aim assist and the precise aim of a mouse. And that gives some players an extreme advantage. That's my concern. So when I talk shit by the way on controller players, I'm not talking about the positive actors. I'm talking about the bad actors. I'm talking about the way in which it will change dynamically the way that the devs have to balance their game because one and let's say the half of the player base, half of the player base will have an aim assist. The other half will not. And and you do need a typically an aim assist on controller. So you either do what modern warfare did, which is they removed aim assist as a whole across the board to make it as fair as possible. But now console players have a way harder time because it is harder to aim out using a joystick. It's way, way harder. So that's really where I come. Like when I'm talking shit, it's more about that. It's like when we get into the point of talking about these these not being on separate queues, but when they're in, you know, coming in and we have cross play going on, especially if cross plays not turn like toggleable, whether it's also like Fortnite, for example, you can toggle whether or not you want to play against mobile players or whether you want to play against, you know, console players or PC players, et cetera, et cetera. So if you don't have that, it can lead to a place where bad actors get involved and it can become a problem. And again, like I said, you start also having to balance the champions around what controllers can do versus what mouse and keyboard can do. And that's its own complexity. So yeah, that's why I bring up what I bring up typically. That's like so that's my non meme, me giving people shit. That's my real take on on my concerns with console and controllers. Outside of that, again, I can't wait for to get to console. I think it'll be huge for both of these games. When they're on console, I think it'll get to I played Paragon by the way chat. I fucking play Paragon on my PlayStation. OK, I was the console player, OK? So let's give fuck off. I just give you guys a hard time because it's fun. There you go. J.Pai, yes. I'm the guest, so I'm raising my hand. Can I speak? You may. OK, I want to build on top of what Viking Jed I said. Please. OK. So, hey, all like, listen, aim, assist, controller, support, write your scripts. You you better help hope that you get all the help you can if you ever face me in game. You need all the fucking help you can get ready because you're going to fucking need it. If you want to beat me, you're going to fucking earn it, motherfucker. Those fucking go to hell. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's like a Viking taker. I think that's going to. I think that's going to close it out for ethereal. Are you guys ready to get into a segment that I'm going to call the fight and whiteies? Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Oh, hang on. Hang on. When's the next time I want to I'm salivating. I need it. Yes. Yes. You will be able to play ethereal again. I promise. But I want to go back to something that I thought of when J.Pai was talking about his friend that says they hate mobas, but will play ethereal. It's not only attracted people like that, that don't like mobas, but think ethereal looks intriguing. It's even attracted like developers that are like that, right? That there's there's a post that we'll talk about in a few weeks with you guys. I can't. I wish I could talk about it now. It's really the one thing I'm like so excited to talk about. It's ridiculous because it's showing that people in the gaming development space as a whole are looking at ethereal and saying, like, that's intriguing. I want to be a part of that. And there are updates coming that are just the beginning of those feelings that I'm really excited for, for ethereal, that it's not just players, it's also developers, that they're seeing ambitious things and going like, that looks cool. I want to be a part of that as a developer, not even just as a player. And I think that's that shows what the potential of ethereal is in terms of pulling people from other places. Yeah, it's exciting for sure. Oh, yeah. All right. I know that those of us who have been part of the community like have had like ups and downs, I think, with ethereal. But more recently, I think that things have really started to trend in like a higher upward trajectory. Things seem to just really I don't know what happened in the back end. Again, I'm not privy to any new information that you guys are. We don't jelly doesn't break NDA for us. OK, so he's he's pretty strict about what he can talk about and all that stuff. So but it's obvious, I think as a casual player or as a casual observer of this studio and the way the game is developing that something in the background has made a really strong positive change to focus the team in a direction that before I felt like wasn't there. Like things were very up and down. It seemed like it was one of an identity crisis to such a breadth of fresh air to feel like, you know, we have an identity. We're still kind of figuring out some of that identity, but we have a stronger, you know, GPS location that we're heading towards. But we're open to deviating off the path a little bit if it feels right, especially based off feedback from the community. So that's really, really exciting. All right. That's my last bit on ethereal gaming. Yes. All right. So let's move on to Jay Pie's bone to pick. With with with with us. Wait, but wait, if we are going to open this book, we're reading until the final chapter. We're going to open this can of worms. We want to eat every single fucking worm. I hear you. And do you know what? Then let me get it. Let me get my water. I'll be right back. I just made myself a drink in preparation. I wouldn't got a drink, too. OK, I'm going to just entertain the viewers. Hey, hi, everybody. How are you doing? Hope you're well. You're not. I let me go on. Keep going. I'll preface this. I am so ready for so many of these comments to be about things that I've said. All right. I'm sorry. Jelly, what did you say? I was I said, I am so ready for so many of these comments to be about things that I said. I'm so ready. I did about that. Like, OK, let's just let's just get into it. OK, so is Manga moderating? So you're going to like say, OK, Manga, you're going to tell us like to the moderator. Because yeah, this is show. No, cut each other off. No, cut each other off. Don't interrupt. Let people make their point before you make your point. Cutting all like, especially jelly knees and Viking Jedi. Yeah, I'm going to cut them both off. Why are you pointing to me? Because I'm because I'm it's necessary because you will cut me off. And so if I don't make it now, I'm just going to I'm the only one that's going to get cut off. All right. All right. All right. But I just want to start this off. OK. And I want to double down. Oh, yeah. Watch the broadcast. Please support the broadcast because. This is a right now. It's a very special time for predecessor, ethereal, overprime, everyone. So let's support everybody. There's no reason why you cannot support everybody. Now, I mean, unless you're a broke bitch and you can't afford early access, then maybe you can't support everybody. Like, I'll be honest. I feel like free to play is the way to go. I wish that there was like my I always advocated for two options, free to play in early access. And if you want to spend more money on cosmetics, that that route is available. I feel like both routes should be available. Mm hmm. And I I'm a good start for doing one stuff. This isn't very spicy. I thought we were going to fight. Oh, no, this is this is the preface. Like, I was preparing everybody. I do also want to make a small preface to that. And real quick, I want anything that's about to be said in the spiciness one, because some of it might be said just to be dramatic, at least speaking for myself. I also want to say that I don't have any personal qualms against J.Pie, maybe even jelly knees if I think he's wrong and or man goose, I guess. And and I definitely don't have any qualms against either of the studios that we might be arguing about because I actually like both of them very much. Are you at J.Pie because we're already at the J.Pie helping the controller players take down J.Pie after this moment. So here we go. I'm ready to fight now. Yeah, I'm disagreeing right now. You're going to take this personal. I'm it's super personal. You want to know why? Yeah, make you see. You have no business being as cool as you are. Fuck you. Yeah, you piece of shit. You fuck like I did. Why are you so cool, man? I was raised right asking. This is I've lived a long life with fucking very fruitful experiences and I have zero regrets. God damn it. That's why I'm so fucking dude. Oh, OK, you know what? We tip our fedora to you. That's OK. You defeated us. We can see. OK, on to the next point. On to the next point. OK, I want to fight. Listen, jelly knees man goose. Like he Jedi. Yes, you're you. Your episode was awesome. It was really awesome. Which episode is it all awesome? They are. They are all released. Oh, my God. Can you guys not fucking interrupt J. Pie, man, I commented on it. This is the most like this is the most contentious episode and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Which one was that? Please advertise it. I think it was 94. Yeah, 94 was the week after press release. Yeah, it lines up with my documents for the minions, 94 points. That that episode was awesome. And that's the kind of content any community is blessed to have because. Although you like listen, you guys levied some less than credible, credible. Complaints, but you also levied some absolutely spot on 100 percent on the money complaints. I want to just divide the two and it's simple. There's two sides. All the complaints where that that I consider less than creditable was just due to a lack of knowledge. You hit the fucking money on so much. I'm going to go with the lowest hanging fruit. Jelly knees. Here we go. Mm hmm. You said about loot boxes was spectacular. Oh, shucks. Man, this guy's a star. I love a pie. He's the best. Because no, let me tell you jelly knees. I'm going to be an ally for you. If seven years from now, predecessor changes their free loop box to be something different. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm I'm going to be bitching and moaning every opportunity. Every fucking opportunity. Because your free loop box is a beautiful idea. And it is. I love it. I love it. The moment that you change that idea, it could be today. It could be tomorrow, a week from now, a month from now. It could be 30 years from now. Guess what? When you change that idea, I'm going to be bitching and moaning. Just I'm just giving you a heads up. Mm hmm. I thought we were going to fight so far. We're agreeing with you. OK, all right. Now we will fight. All right, I'll guard Viking Jedi. I'm going to. OK, because a lot of your complaints, specifically Viking Jedi, with all due respect, no lack of knowledge and understanding of predecessor fair. First point. Well, let's let's right now we're going to dip on. We're not going to dip our big toe into the pool before we jump in. We're dipping our pinky toe. OK, yeah. I don't know how to do that, but OK. And I don't. You know what? Never learn. Dive in and dive in, my friend. So that you complained about the jungle layout. Yes, I hate it. Yeah, but you know what? You also admitted that it was due to a lack of knowledge and understanding. And if you don't understand the jungle layout of predecessor, you're going to get you're getting pooped on. I run into walls and teamfights every five. I've I've used my flash into a wall. I've backed up into a wall. It's it's terrible. Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. And you're right. It's it's it's whether you know about the ins and outs of it or not. And if you do, you're going to dunk on people who don't. And and and I, you know, I strongly advocate to for you to reconsider because once you learn those ins and outs, you're going to dunk on people. But there was general like I don't. Wolf puppy wolf, Wolfie. I'm sorry. What was Wolfie Wolfie? Yeah, Wolfie. Yeah. Some of the misconceptions I have on this list are his as well. He's not here to defend himself. Yeah, exactly. So I'm just going to just breeze through it. Lifesteal and omnivamp and misunderstandings. Wait, I want to talk about jungle then if we because that was one of your points. Right. So I still I played the game a lot more now than I did when I first talked about it. And I still hold to this. This is usually how I approach the games because I'm not nearly as a diehard Paragon player as man goose and jelly knees. Like I didn't play nearly as much as those guys did. And they they also dive into the deep ends of the pool a lot more as far as like gaining game knowledge and items and all that stuff than I do. I usually play things a lot more casually, even though I'd like to try and then dive in as a casual player into the competitive pool. That's my own fault a lot of times. So when I when I make my statements and I still hold to them about jungle and predecessor is it's confusing. And and if I'm a new player coming into your game and I can't figure out for fuck all how to get around in your map and your mini map is this fucking big and I can't zoom it out to be able to see where which paths connect to what. And vision is fucked. There's there's no there's I don't know. So the map into itself is can become a asset, I think to the players who spend a lot of time in there. But as a casual new player, that map right now as it sits is is dog shit, in my opinion. It's confusing and it doesn't it doesn't flow very well. I can only imagine as jungle mains, you guys having to sit there and figure out the complexities of how to farm up each of your camps, whether or not you go into and invade because the map is so huge and you can get cut off from so many different angles. So you have to figure out how you're going to get out and get in. I can't even fathom the chest that has to go on in your brains to navigate the jungle from, you know what I mean? So as a casual player, that's so intimidating that I would not even want to go into the jungle at all. I'm just going to stay in my lane and not even fucking go with it. Anyway, that's OK. Jellies has the next say. I just will I'm going to pass it off to him and I say, let me tell you like he Jedi my two brain cells, they work over time. Mm hmm. I don't doubt it. I don't. I would say I don't disagree nor agree fully one direction or the other about the jungle. I think the jungle in 90 percent of games like this is going to be complicated, right? Because there's no easy way to see paths and where they connect to from a third person perspective in top down in League of Legends. There's a lot easier way to see like, OK, this one goes up to the left. This one goes down to the right. Right in third person MOBAs that doesn't exist other than from a mini map perspective. And I'm taking the mini map even out of this equation. There is a certain amount that you are hoping as a map designer that your jungle is intuitive. That when I think I'm trying to go to the mid lane, right, I can intuitively, at least for the most part, find a path to get me there. And I think that no game does this 100 percent successfully. I think predecessors, while the jungle is definitely the pathing is definitely something you can learn and understand better. I would think the intuition is among some of the lowest of casual play of just being able to kind of infer where you're trying to go other than just general direction. But going to the mid lane, I could end up behind the T1 easily in predecessor without any problem. I will say I'm going to throw in my own two sentences, something I've complained about with predecessor since their their first beta is one red side jungle. It's it very much leads you to believe that there is an exit and it's only an exit if you have verticality. Yes, I am completely fine with having an exit that you can only use if you have a vertical a vertical base character like Calari or if you're using like Galaxy Greaves. But don't make it look so much like I could go out there. That's that's my only problem with their jungle, really. J.Py is trying to throw the vote. No, you guys, this cast, the best damn cast around. I'm just because I joined, right? Is because I joined right as the third member. It's everybody. You guys are all J.Py is just the best, you know, really smart guy. He's very smart. Great opinions, you know, absolutely great. When I say differently in 30 seconds, remember this moment. So hold on. I actually go back to this before we before we pick a fight on the next one because I this is this is another thing I do want to say. I think that the predecessor does a very, very good job. And this includes the map of rewarding people who put time and effort into the game. So if you are a skilled ceiling type of guy, you like to be the guy who if you have more smarts, more game knowledge than the other guy, you were you want to be able to win more times than not predecessor nails that. And I and I think that there should be a space for that. But when when the way the game currently operates, there's no way to ease even people who are hardcore die hard fans of that style of play. There's no way to ease them into it in a way that gets them bought into that and learn how to manipulate the map in a very good way. Because like even their training mode is it's a whole separate map. So you don't even get the benefits of learning like you can't jump into a game and learn how to walk around and do your own pass. Like so the custom games right now don't allow you as this individual player to run around and try out different jungle paths and see what works for you. You know what I mean? And so from from again from a new player or a person who just bought early access or happened to be on Reddit and win one of the free ones that you know, the guys are given out on Reddit sometimes. If you are a jungle player and that's usually where you want to be, you are going to be at a huge, massive disadvantage and you're going to get fucking hard flamed in chat, hard flamed as a jungler who's trying to learn jungle. Like there's no learning curve. There's no like I'm new guys, like I'm trying to learn how to do the jungle. Now you go fuck yourself. OK, enjoy your life. Yeah. Go for it. Go for it. Am I am I allowed? Yeah, go for it. Please, you do your very much alone. OK, I because I don't pull up the two hands every every topic. You're so. Yeah, Viking Jedi. Yes, I want to build upon what you said. And I'm going to share an experience with you that I learned in Paragon, right? I was a jungler. Normal, early, clear. I ganked the dual lane. We got a double kill. Mm hmm. I ganked middle lane. We got a kill. We're up three zero. So leaner. Our jungler is fucking trash fucking garbage. He didn't visit my lane. Fuck this jungler. Uninstall your game jungle, your garbage, your trash. As the solo lane player, I agree. Yeah, dude, why aren't you in my lane helping me? But, dude, no, I go as a jungler. Like, I'm just like my the fedora on the fucking floor. On the floor, dirty. It got dirty, dude, the dust in the fedora. And I'm like, I'm having the best game of my life. And you just call me a piece of shit. At that point, I realized as a jungler, you make you make your own story. You know what? You can't you can't win all lanes and not everyone's going to be happy. No, that's true. Yeah, I think my point still stands, though, right? Like if you are a brand new jungler, even if you're, you know, you've got more than three brain cells to rub together, right? You're fairly, you know, higher than average mobile player, right? Coming, you know, but coming into predecessor and in trying to be a jungler. And then we're not also this chat because I see you guys talking about overprime. This isn't a comparison about overprime doing it better or worse. He's making points that we made about predecessor. So we're talking strictly about predecessor here in in the way that predecessor operates, especially to me from the jungle and the map is mostly jungle, right? The lanes are this fucking big, OK? They go, they're tiny. The jungle makes up everything else. And to me, the jungle is the biggest aspect of what wins games in predecessor. So if you have a jungler who knows their shit and a jungler who doesn't, your game goes way smoother or it doesn't. Holy fuck, dude. So who just popped off with all these fucking games? That would be bloodhunter. Just give the 20 memberships. I'm much appreciated. No, no, no, no. Don't talk about bloodhunter. Don't he's too. Because I was like, I tell you, man, bloodhunter was like, dude, J.Py, help me be become a better, better solo laner. I'm like, OK, last hit these minions. Last hit them perfectly. Bro, I don't want to fucking do that. I'm going to just play how I want to fucking want to play. And I'm like, I respect it. You do you. And I love to see the minions, guys. But. But. So do you do we're supposed to be fighting? So do you agree with my take or you don't take? Because so far I feel like I'm winning. OK, to I know because I I'm very. You're going to tell you're going to tell the new player. Hey, bro, just keep playing and get better. Like, you know, stop sucking and you just have to play better. There's nothing on the devs that need to come up with a better way for them to improve their jungle. Experienced as far as predecessor is concerned. Yeah. You're you're all trash. You're all trash. You're garbage. And once we have ranked play in a ranked Q and in a consolidated, confined, competitive environment, that's going to be a different story. But but with as far as predecessor is concerned, you a lot of the time you and I've seen it before my very eyes. You have people on comms stomping people that are not on comms. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back. You basically achieved the lowest hanging fruit in Movis. Wait, wait until there's a right mode where everybody is on level footing. There they are all going into the game with the same expectations. And and you're going to have to put your money where your mouth is. But that doesn't exist in the current game. And so the jungle still stands as a place of pain. And that doesn't mean that you just are more casual players. Because no, hang on. No, no, no, no, no. I was not done talking. No, it's your your your stage jellynees. OK, I want to interject here. J. Pie also was not done talking. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Can we get a tip of the Jay Park stop when viking started? So that's though, Viking's point areas, which I need to find these points about no, it's your call. Let Jay Park finish talking. No, no, but he was talking when you when you started talking. Yeah, Viking interrupted. I didn't he stopped talking. I picked up the baton where Viking left it off. So that's not my problem. OK, let's let Jay Pie finish what he was saying. And then jelly, you can be up next. OK, jelly, I'll just say bias. I'm a junk. You might be right. You might be wrong. I don't know. I'm a guest. I'm just having the time of my life. I don't think there is a right or wrong. I think we just have to get out of the man talk. So I don't want him to think, though, that I think that he's wrong, because I don't think you're wrong. I just think we have two different viewpoints. And I do, Jedi, I there's no person on this planet that would appreciate it more than me. I love differences of a medium. And so I'll say this as a jungler, right? I will with my story. What I tried to illustrate was that I as a jungler, I had the perfect game. The first five minutes of my time where where I flipped the coin. 50 50. I won 50 50. I won. Basically, I like my investment. I got 800 times worth. And I my solo laner just chewed me out, disrespected me, shit on me, put me down, made me feel like garbage. I mean, that guy's an asshole, but what does that to do with how good the jungle is? Like the pathing and you have to understand as a jungler, both of you get to shut the fuck up. Now, Mangoose has gone and I get to speak. Oh, way past where the point where I was going. I thought I brought it back. This whole problem. OK. That you're coming at this from two completely different sides. J. Pi is saying that on a competitive, like high level aspect, once everyone learns the game, the jungle will have certain determinations. But Viking is saying from a casual perspective on a brand new player, the jungle has certain expectations. This is why I said I neither agree or disagree fully 100 percent that they from an intuition perspective, their jungle is not intuitive. That doesn't mean you can't learn it. That doesn't mean when you get to a ranked competitive play that you're not going to have people that know the jungle. Right. It's not it's not so unintuitive that you're going to be still unsure of where to go. Fifty games in, right? But when you're playing their first game, your 10 first 10 games where you're running around that jungle, you're not also going to have a clear determination as to where you are supposed to or not supposed to go to accomplish certain objectives. Right. You're both coming at this from two different sides. And I agree with both of you because they are very different parts of this. Part assessor cannot just ignore and say that when people figure it out, they figure it out because that will completely alienate their casual cue. But at the same time, they can't dumb it down so much that the highest and I'm not saying you're trying to say that they should, Viking, but just in general, right, they shouldn't dumb it down so much that the highest competitive form of play is now capped because they've made it so easy to pick up and so easy to do all of these things. They have to find just like everything, they have to find a middle ground. I think which is hard jungle is unintuitive to brand new players, but can be learned throughout playing the game. So my argument is that I think that they need to improve the way that in which new players or new junglers can learn the things that make the jungle interesting and exciting for high levels of play once. But right now, they don't have access to that. So the only way that they can do it is by going into quick play where they have to be subjected to nine other players and how that experience plus just the newness of playing the game as a whole. And so I think that's where the crux of my argument against the map and the way that it's currently laid out. And this is also easily connected to the lack of vision and access to the solo lanes. And there's just so much more in this map. That is that takes to get used to that you're not even getting into the point of like learning the different like jungle, you know, strengths and weaknesses, the buffs, the, you know, all the different champions, the skill shots and all this. There's so many things and in the complexity of the map, I think exasperates the overwhelmingness of it all, especially again, coming from a casual new player, which to me is who I genuinely am advocating for on our show. Go for it, J5, your turn, sir. Again, Gerard, Gerard, fix your shit. What the fuck? Your camera's name is Gerard. No, that's my cameraman. He's a. I'm sorry. I've got Gerard Butler in his room with a new one. Fair enough. He was the worst support player I've ever encountered in my life. I'm just going to say and I and he wanted to be the cameraman. Mm hmm. I feel you anyway. Yeah. So as a jungler, let's let's get down to the nitty gritty. My story was I was simply trying to advertise that as a jungler, you could have the perfect jungler game. Imagine just having the optimal results. For the first seventy five percent of the game in your first maybe four minutes, right? That's you. Basically, that's the equivalent of striking like a goldmine. Poof. Gold just blinds you. And then the soul laner is like your fucking garbage asshole. Go fuck yourself uninstall. What are you supposed to feel? What are you supposed to understand as a jungler? Jelly knees, we're going to we're going to get to you in just one moment. Mm hmm. So like, listen, if you're going to bitch and moan about the state of the game, don't you ever play jungle or solo laner? Oh, but solo laner is the beginner role according to predecessor. So support according to predecessor. So yeah, like listen, don't ignore all of that. You're you're going to experience in your games that the game is far more complex. And listen, that those UI differences and explanations. Omida Studios, they're catching up, but the game is far more complex than than that. And I wish it was that simple, but but that's the reality. And I like I have amazing games. I get shit on constantly, constantly. And just don't play jungle jungle or solo lane. If you cannot shred off people, shitting on you, it's going to happen all the time. I'm not even talking about people shitting on you. I'm talking more about the the the the the the annoyances of the map in general. What jelly speak jelly speak? Oh, I get double handed. The hell does your game being good or bad in terms of a jungler? Like you're having a good a game versus a bad game have to do with map layout. No, I do this was completely about map layout. And you're saying that your games can go 50 50 that has nothing to do with map layout. Well, I mean, I mean, the thing is this, I'm not a regular streamer because I I never go on comms with people when we play, we play by the feeling of our game. We're not on comms. You know, you want to know what what I do on my stream personally. I don't go on comms with people. Don't go on people go 23 and four and then create a YouTube video about it. What does you going 23 and four have to do with map layout? Because the map is not that complex. It's not that difficult and and but but let me tell you, OK, Omida Studios, you have to do a better job teaching people about this. Now, where I take it personally as a content creator, I am trying to create videos to educate people and the overall community to understand the the the basics. The basics like you better do this because if you don't, you're just you're taking not you're not even taking a shotgun to your your big toe. Can we get a moderator intervention here? Because this is so not what the topic was on. I'll get a moderator vision because like he has both hands up. Let me know because I have my complaints. We'll let Viking talk and then I'm going to say something and then we're going to. OK, Viking, go ahead. So I guess man, this is there's so much to unpack now. Pack it all. OK, so I think that the thing that you kind of touched on the last there is that you as a content creator are coming up with ways to solve the exact problem that I'm talking about. So you're I almost feel like you're starting to argue for my my complaint, which is that the map is confusing the jungle role. Hold on. I had my hands up. The jungle role and the map are confusing as fuck. And so if you as a content creator like, hey, this is something I can create content around. That's because a problem exists. So you are trying to create a solution to the problem that exists by educating those exact players who are struggling to understand exactly what they need to do. I'm just. All right. Now I'm going to say my piece. Yeah, I would absolutely love to continue this conversation, but I feel J. Pi is enumerated to the point that I'm usually enumerated at the end of a fault partner panel. I'm ready. Every argument. You know what we can do? What's your I would like to do? Complaint. Well, I would like to do a separate video. Oh, wherever. Let's let's work. I have a proposition. Because Viking a dude. Yeah, that energy. Oh, I will. I love it. I love you. Mangus. I only love Kim, but I have a sincere affection for you. Oh, fair enough. Okay. I got you. Sorry. No, that's okay. I'll take what I could get. I'm easy. Magnus. What's up? Listen. Whatever you want to do, man. You want to because this episode has gone on longer. It's a big boy. It's a large episode. Yeah. Let's send it here and do people are sticking out though. Dude, we've had I think almost 60 concurrent viewers for the vast majority of this. You guys are a hardcore sticking in here. Oh, sugar mama. Okay. You guys let me know. I definitely want to address your points, but I would like to do a separate video for that. Yeah. Complaints. Yes. That would be good. Let's schedule that. Okay. Let's schedule that for a different time where everybody's performance. The only thing that I want is I have one condition. Jelly knees approves. What? That's fine. Whatever. Yeah. Jelly knees does approve. Okay. We're good. You don't want my approval. Jesus Christ. I hoped you were on the board to begin with. Oh, okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Real quick, though, not necessarily related to you guys, but I've seen lots of comments and I'll say specifically targeted to me saying that I am hypocritical about certain things and all of that. And when I ask you about what, I get no response. If you have comments like this, like J Pi is bringing to us. I wonder where people believe that something is incorrect wrong, whatever, and you want it to change so you don't have to bitch about it going forward. Actually tell us what it is. Don't just leave generic comments. And then when we ask, do nothing about it. But do leave comments. Yes, J Pi. Go ahead. Okay. Jelly knees. Apps to fucking Lutely. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. And jelly knees, one of my complaints that we didn't get into was just you guys have performed very well in predecessor. I just, when we go into our future episode, I want it to be a recent, recent episode, recent gameplay, recent statistics, because jelly knees, you, you, you. So again, we, we, we did not, I have a, I have a document here. I didn't touch it. If you guys that I wanted to go through it all. And I asked each and every one of you, I said, Hey, we're, if we're going to open up this can of worms, we're going to see it through to the better fucking end. I, I, so I'm going to. Right, man. Goose. That's okay. That's true. It's not. We're not seeing it through to the end, but you're not even talking about the topic. I'm flexible. I'm flexible. That's true, J Pi. I'm doing this for you, my friend. I love you so much. I want you at your best when we dig into this worms right now. I feel that you're at my best, which is, which is not good. Listen, there's no better. Listen, you will get a hundred percent every single time. So today, tomorrow, two weeks from now, I'm ready. Whenever you guys want to invite. All right. That's what we're going to do. We're going to schedule an episode specifically with J Pi's complaints. We're going to address them. We're going to go through his document and we're going to have a good time with it. We agreed to two hours ago, but, but. That was two hours ago when you were fucking sober, bro. I can see. On the pan of worms to go through it. Yeah, I agree. So all right. So let's start wrapping things up. Let me let me let me revert this view back to the standard view, which is my stupid little fucking animation. They're not stupid, by the way. Those are awesome. Yeah. YouTube was like, fuck you. Nobody wants to watch this shit. So we're not going to show it to anybody. Anyway, so let's start closing things out here. We are going to do a follow up episode with J Pi where we talk about some of the stuff that he has a little bit of a bone to pick with the FDM cast. And yeah, I think this is a great example of how you can disagree with someone and still be cool with it. Like a hundred percent. You can like one game or the other game and still be friends. It's it's not a big deal, guys. It's a fucking game. Get that through your heads. It's not life. So let's let's let's let's start wrapping it up. J Pi, you got anything to plug any any final comments you want to make? Guys, the game that you find the most fun, the one that you believe in the most, support that game because the reality is this. Over now, I I've been very clear since the very beginning of the stream. I have some lifestyle constraints where I had to make an executive decision and choose between the time that I could spend between predecessor and overprime. And I chose predecessor. And just because I chose predecessor, it doesn't mean that that I feel that overprime cannot win. But if I had to bet money, right, like you got to put your money where your mouth is my money is on predecessor. So what I want everyone here watching this YouTube live stream more than anything, because those are the most committed and dedicated viewers. I am right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Fucking. But but to everybody watching this on the YouTube replay, just support the game that you believe in the most, the one that you have the most fun with, the one that you believe in, support it. However you see fit. Where can they find you, J.Pie? Where can they find your content? I have his YouTube and his Twitch linked in the description below. If you guys want to check out J.Pie. Oh, perfect. I appreciate that. I'm not. I. I appreciate you guys. And make sure you're out. All I'll say is, like Mango said, we can disagree amicably with respect and civility. 100%. And I hope that we continue what happened here tonight. Thank you for tuning in and watching. This has been my second or third visit on for the minions. I think it's my second, honestly, but my favorite broadcast, especially live of any one that I have participated in. And Viking Jedi. Yeah. He's step into the fucking dojo. It's style of danger. Man. You step into the ring because we're going to wrestle. Viking Jedi. Any final words? Anything you want to plug? Oh boy, man. This is this has been one of the the longer videos. I appreciate everybody who's stuck it out. Thank you guys for being active in the chat, man. It really means a lot to us. We sometimes I think forget how much time you guys decide to spend with us. So and you guys could be anywhere and you have decided to spend it here with us. So thank you so much for doing that. And that same theme I have been streaming a lot on my YouTube channel. I've been having a lot of fun playing both of these games as well as some other games outside of the 3D MOBA space and a lot of you guys have come and shown some love over there. If you want to come and see some scuff Viking play, yell at me about controllers. Tell me that I don't know what I'm doing in the games. I would love to hang out with you. Subscribe to my YouTube channel. You can follow me on Twitter. And yeah, and that's that's my plug. Thank you guys so much. I really, really appreciate it. You guys have been great. Jelenees. YouTube and Twitch. I hope to stream more both of these games, especially as like the updates come through. I think that's going to be really exciting to see them both grow from where they're at right now going forward. But yeah, that's about it. What about you, Magus? I got nothing. Thank you so much for everybody that's stuck with it. This was an incredibly long episode, but it was a really fun one, I think. One of the better episodes we've ever had on FTM. And that includes the old FTMs and the new FTMs. So if you're still there in the chat, let's get some Maggie's up in the chat. I know we had a lot of gifted subs out there. Get them up. But if you're watching this as the video, much appreciated for you sticking it out this long. And hopefully I'll do a pretty decent job of putting some timestamps out there. But for now, this is the For the Minions crew signing off. You guys have a good one.