 Hello Good evening, I guess Even though it's still day outside Shantal you can hear me, right? Yes, okay So thank you for being here with us Tonight attractor as you already know the whole Discussion the whole debate will be in English So I hope that everyone is okay with that My name is Petro Ionescu. I work at the actor. I'm part of the administrative board, but I'm also a theater director and the stage dramaturg and Tonight I will try to moderate this big talk about Climate change and discourse in performing arts as you already know Rector is a independent theater and in our projects. We are trying to approach different issues and topics social topics mostly and We have this project called Solastagia which is financed by the administration of the National Cultural Fund and the the project is also supported by the City Hall of Kruzhna Poka and In this project we have already produced theater performance About ego anxiety and the premiere was last week and we already had a debate about this topic about eco anxiety and Today we are trying to Go a bit deeper if we can and to see how the Climate change discourse is articulated in performing arts not only in Romania, which is Let's say Pretty new to talk about this issue in in in theater and in performing arts but to see also other way of approaching the This big theme Abroad and this is why we have an international guest. We have Chantal Bilodeau with us on zoo and As I was saying, it's I think it's getting More and more important to address this topic And I don't know if art is the best medium to do that, but we are trying to Have a contribution on this theme as Good as as much as we can and I will Present the the guests now as I was saying we have Chantal Bilodeau. She's a Canadian born artist Living in USA. She's a playwright. She's working also in theater and on project Projects that focus on the implications of climate change Chantal if you want to add something more Hello, thank you for the invitation. I'm really glad to participate in this panel Yes, so I'm Chantal Bilodeau. I started as a playwright I also run an organization called the arts and climate initiative and I am calling today from Alaska Thank you Next we will have Iwana Hogman. She's playwright and the author of the performance that I was Talking about earlier Habituara, which premiered last week. She wrote the text Iwana if you want to add something It's yeah, it's open Hello, I feel a bit weird as I would be performance Which I'm not used to be anymore but I'm very happy we have this dialogue tonight and Even though I think none of us is a specialist in climate change. I think it's very important to To find a way to talk about this in our Everyday life. I'm very interested lately Since the pandemics in working with people the turn-out artists I I like to to narrow the gap between artists and The public so I hope we will manage to have a conversation also with you tonight And I'm very happy to meet the other guests So hello Okay Next we have Anima Rinchan. Maybe you can present yourself. Thank you. Thank you very much for the Invitation tonight. I also feel really Strangely set up. I'm not really usually used with a Kind of like a stage or something but I really want to invite you all to like Participate in the discussion. We also have like an interactive more more interactive part I really hope that will be more like an informal way to approach it and yes So I'm an activist in daily life Environmental activists. I'm part of a guestivist initiative. It's an initiative that fights against guest infrastructure mainly new guest infrastructure that is proposed But I like I have more like different Hats kind of and this is the one that I'm wearing But tonight, maybe I will also refer to like my experience with the forum theater and like performances that are like going in the streets and Fighting for a cause so kind of like the activists and the arts together Okay, thank you, honey one up who's got was she's a Performer and an actress she will perform tomorrow in one woman show called You know what maybe you will join us one if you want to Thank you, Petro. Hi everyone as Petro said, I'm one up who's got to it's really nice to be here in front of you Even though I'm pretty used to being in front of the public. It's still very exciting day and I have like a little bit of an anxiety, but it will pass I promise I I What I want to say way what I want to add what to what Petro said is that I'm a part of business theater a theater collective which Activates in both Romania and UK and we are political theater And we tackle things like climate change and immigration policies and We do political shells, so that's why I'm here Thank you, Wana and Next we have delia Gavlicki. She's a theater director and she's also the coordinator of mini-reactor, which is a very important Theater for a young audience. I I assume that you already know mini-reactor Delia well actually mini-reactor is the platform for a young audience in a reactor and I don't know. I'm here today because We thought it's it's important to talk about how do we discuss with the youngsters About climate change and I don't know about their future especially Okay, thank you delia. So thank you everyone again for being here as Yvana was saying before we will we will also have This open debate with you, but for the first part of the discussion I Have some questions prepared for the guests and also we will have a presentation from from Shanta and Also, we will try together with Annie to talk a bit about the initiatives also in in theater in Romania that Concerned climate change But also the other organization organizations where Annie is More expert that I am so just to know how this whole debate will Will be structured Shanta. I think you can have the word We listen to you Thank you so The question I was asked to address is what does the representation of the climate crisis look like in the performing arts and I just want to preface by saying that I My expertise is mostly with English-speaking countries for obvious reasons is because that's the work I hear about the most and that's these are the artists I interact with the most so please take what I say and You know Understand it in this context. There's I'm sure there's a lot more being done that I'm not aware of so What I've seen very in the last few years I would say post COVID is a Greater effort to engage with the climate crisis in the performing arts than even just a few years ago I Started doing this work about 15 years ago and at the time I I was one of the very few I there was no I didn't know anyone around me who was doing this work and You know through trying to Make it known what I was doing. I ended up meeting more artists who are doing it and now it seems that there's been a real shift in interest since 2020 So that's that's that's really great news and not only with artists, but also with theaters where there has been Plays produced of course, but also reading series and contests here and there that specifically tried to encourage Playwrights writing about the climate crisis However within all of this what I see a lot is dystopian work so a lot of post apocalyptic stories Stories about breakdown of civilization stories about survival painting a very bleak world essentially assuming that we failed in addressing that the climate crisis and Oddly I see this More and I'm a little nervous about saying this but I've you know, this is not a scientific study But I tend to see this fall along genderline So it tends to be more male playwrights who go towards the apocalyptic scenarios and female playwrights are a little bit more balanced and the stories that they tell and this this dystopian work is You know, it's not on it's not unique to the performing arts. It's present a lot in fiction It's present a lot in film and of course, it's all over the news You know because what we hear about is always the is always our failing So it's it's disasters natural disasters Policy failure, so we keep being told again and again that we're failing and that this this is represented in the artistic work that we do and It's very concerning because What that tells me is that we don't have our imagination doesn't take take us to different place We can only imagine the worst, but we haven't yet Spend a lot of time imagining What's possible that might be a livable world as opposed to an unlivable world? Again in the in the in the recent years Another thing that I've noticed is Work that deals with more specific issues. So for a long time Artists were trying to to tackle the climate crisis as a whole, you know what is the climate crisis and of course, it's a very big subject to put in a play and You know, it was it was and I did that too at first It was a lot about the science of it trying to understand the science and trying to communicate the science and now Artists are zeroing in on more specific issues That are more personal and sometimes more unique to a place. So instead of the climate crisis, it might be about forest fires Rebuilding after hurricane. I saw I saw reading a play recently that was about being an activist What does what does it mean to be an activist and to have all the weight of this issue on your shoulders? Another really nice play that I've read had a character Whose only purpose whose sole purpose was to say goodbye to extinct species So again, something very specific like a narrow narrow or issue within the big issue of the climate crisis And also one thing that I've noticed which is maybe not as true in other countries But in the US certainly there has been a shift away from these conversations between Deniers and people who believe, you know people who believe trying to convince deniers that climate change is real It we seem to even though it's that issue is still very real in the in society in the arts There's been a movement forward to leave that conversation behind and move on to more nuanced topic I'm also noticing especially with the younger generation that there's a real Effort to play with form Again in the US and in English Canada There's the tradition of the well-made play that is still very strong And I don't know that you that we can address this really complex issue You know in this very complex world that we have today with very old structures that came down to us You know from 2,000 years ago not to say that the Aristotle cross structure is not Useful, but it's certainly not the only way we can address the climate crisis and maybe it's not the best way anymore There is Also more while at the beginning the performing arts were dealing with the climate crisis as a Mostly strictly an environmental issue now. It's it's opened up to include climate justice So there is More understanding and there's also a very big push from the climate movement That is being reflected in the art to bring social issues social issues together And to understand how the climate crisis and other issues like racism economic disparity gender discrimination all of these things how they affect each other and how The climate crisis is a big I can't find the words Not well, I'll use accelerator because I can't find a better word But it just makes it enhances all the the issues that are already present make makes them worse So that's being reflected in the art Another thing that I'm seeing these days That I find encouraging in a way is Plays that deal with loss and plays that find that try to find resilience and community And reconnecting with environment and embracing indigenous teachings So and I'm saying this is encouraging. I mean it sounds very bleak, but it's encouraging because There's a there's a recognition. There's the recognition that we have to grief. We have to Acknowledge what is being lost In order to then find the courage and the hope to move forward I don't think we can leave those feelings aside and I think it's encouraging that there is a In a way, it's a it's a it's public grieving. It's a public ritual that helps us Get in touch with those feelings because in our day-to-day lives, it's easy to leave those aside, you know Like oh, no, it's too overwhelming. It's too difficult I'm going to think about it for two minutes and then I'll I'll move on with the rest of my life So these plays are inviting us to Acknowledge that we're we are losing so much and yet there's still so much that we can fight for What I am not seeing a lot of yet I know this is something this is a big movement in the uk But I'm not seeing it. Certainly not seeing it A lot in north america is Plays that are focused on solutions and that envision futures that are not dystopian and that are not utopian either futures that are not just sci-fi So futures where I had an intern a student intern Not too long ago who wrote about films and she said it was actually very true and it was interesting to See her Notice that she said I have yet to see a film where You know, we succeed because we pass good policies The most simplest things are not They're not present in in our stories. We don't tell stories of Mixed success, which is what it's gonna what it's gonna happen You know where we're it's unlikely where the world is Completely gonna fall apart at least not in our immediate lifetime and it's unlikely we're gonna Succeed so brilliantly that you know, everything is fine. It's gonna be somewhere in the middle And those are the stories that are not being told yet And and and last thing I would like to mention is Again in north america, I find that the most interesting work is being done outside of major institutions Big Theaters, you know, it takes a lot of time. It's there big boats. It's it takes a lot of time to sort of stir them in a different direction and they're also They have very set systems in place and it's hard for them to stray away from that But in small small groups, you know small theaters Artist groups, there's a lot of really exciting work that bypasses the Traditional venues and traditional structures. So for example, there's been There's a company that's been touring on bikes. They they pack up all their sets, you know And they move to they bike to small communities and they do their work there as a way to Talk about the environment and also being very sustainable in how they do it There's been shows in national parks again to engage with the issues in of the park And in and meet audiences in a different place than where they would usually see plays There's also I've noticed Groups who combine theater with a direct experience of the environment if we're going to talk about the environment We can do so, you know in a black box and that's one experience But we can also do the same thing outside in the environment itself and then give audiences Both experiences at the same time. So they're thinking about something, but they're also in the environment where they can experience it So I hope that provides that's all I have. I hope that provides some context and that's useful for the conversation Thank you. Thank you so much Chantal. Yes, of course while you were talking I was thinking that there are so many levels in Not only in theater production But in everything that we can to can do related to climate change or how to be ecological And it's not only the content As you were saying about those plays that talk about the apocalypse or about the solutions But also in the way that we are actually Doing and making our job as artists And I was looking a bit these days to see how I can Have like a small map about what's happening in Romania and we don't have so many artists in theater that Are tackling this issue And maybe for the the Romanian audience that is here with us tonight I will try to to give some examples to see where we are Regarding this topic and as I was saying there is not very much done And one of the examples that I really find Important is Gianna Carbonario. She's a theater director. She's also the manager of Stapia 13 Piatra Nantes in North East Romania And she made In the beginning of this year a performance called waste, but it was produced in Stuttgart It was not a Romanian production and the topic Of this performance is about the Illegal waste that it's brought From rich countries as Germany, France, Austria, and they are brought in Romania, Bulgaria, and they are illegally burned in cement factories So that's the the the the subject of the of this performance But as I was saying it was not produced in in Romania And as a yeah another example is a Sonographer and she is Working with Object that she recycles in her installations and She also has a platform called charlatans where She is producing different objects. She's called Cristina Mila But again is one example An isolated example and A couple of weeks ago there was a festival a dance festival in Bucharest at the Cine de Ben the How is it called in English The national dance center exactly and they were trying to have It was not a similar debate as ours, but they were inviting journalist theater artists visual artists and Also activists to give their perspectives and Their image about what we can do and the the whole meeting was called ideas for planet earth Uh, but this is where we are and there are some Isolated performances also made in Romania. We are also try to to Go there with this new production habit water where the Iwana was part of the artistic team as a playwright But there is also another one that is about the illegal Forests cutting am I saying it's right? Does it make sense? Verde tyat, which is also an independent theater show In the state theater. I'm not sure if there there is much about it. You were Yeah, of course, she's here because she's a representative of of This very very small group of artists that are concerned Uh About climate change and there are also another some other artists that we I think we all know people that Have this In their mind, but maybe it's not Verbally and very directly Articulated my art is about Being ecological or how to save the planet Uh From my side as little as I can do Uh, so yeah, this is what's happening in Romania and it's very new to talk about this in in the theater But not only and I remember that last week when we had the the q&a after the performance I see natalia Chobano here with us and she was saying that Compared to what was happening. Uh, I don't know maybe 10 or more years ago It's very important that now we want to talk at least about it That's a step forward to talk about it even though we can Change very much in uh on a higher level. We are not Able to to change laws or to have some direct and concrete Measures to to do something about it And I will let Ani to talk about other initiatives from the activists part Thank you. Uh, I actually want also to thank I'm really bad with names chantal for the presentation because I think it's really Grasp a bit also the context that I was trying to prepare to present it tonight like because romania It's a really different context like east european and more poor and all that like all the social context Effects how we actually talk about social issues and for me the climate change even if it's such a striking big topic In romania, it's a bit different to approach it now And if I'm going a bit more in the back some years ago It was like in romania. It was a lot of denialism People didn't want it to talk about climate change because they didn't believe in climate change I think this thing is changing now Like in the mainstream, I mean like there were people of course, but like Practically all the topic of climate change, which is such a big topic Stayed and remained on the hands of NGO people with like really a narrow like not narrow as They were doing little is just more that they couldn't do more because like we are all With our limits, but like all the climate change was in back in the years Only in the like this rational scientific data based Which is a lot of work to do. They made a lot of advocacy or try to do campaigns on so on. It's An NGO based but that's really created us An atmosphere in which climate change is about numbers about rationality about all this thing that comes with Statistics and so on that says also that is the end and all this statistic data On top of this emotional Fear of what this end can be and all these dystopian american movies on top. I think it's really creates An environment in which it's really hard to approach the subject And I think it is indeed in the last years from 2019 2020 maybe with the pandemic even more We tried to do in like really small like a theater there an initiative there. I also have this Book it's called the lumine nostra e possibile our possible words And as you said Chantal, it's an approach of science fiction, but this one it's initiated by queer feminists of people from rumania Which we're trying to not imagine a dystopian world, but more like Different kinds of end of the world. Maybe it's not the end Looking beyond the crisis and the main idea of it and I was also writing the text here I'm making a commercial here, but I really believe in it I think that the main idea in this book is that the word that we are living now in It's someone's dream come true Somebody is really happy about how it how things are going And it's not our dream. So we our dream can be also possible The thing is that which one is that one and as you also sent Chantal I also feel this Need now And you said that it was already there Climate change to not be taken as a whole because it's such a big thing I really want to see more concrete Understandings and debates and discussions about what actually is climate change What actually is the trigger of that temperature rising there? What is the trigger of that and that and that? And personally, I'm looking on the gas industry and how industry and economical system works and intertwine with this kind of crisis But I really want to approach it from our creative way of how do we actually create spaces to discuss about this And I think here arts and performative performances are really like it's a good approach and As we are from Romania, we all know about russia montana campaign russia montana really like Had a movement And on the top of the movement janina carbonario came with the russia montana pelina that like it was this performance about russia montana And a lot of other initiatives like songs everything like all the cultural boom It was a boom on it and I think the context is so difficult difficult now also for For the performing arts To approach this subject is because I'm really sorry to say it But there is no climate movement in romania and that's exactly the The lack and there is no none because as the Art perform like the performance cultural field tries to survive from enough to net or enough to net to you know All that thing that's how also climate movements tries to survive NGO is trying to get funds for a one campaign on a one topic somewhere and it becomes such a entrepreneur approach to what actually is real life and social life and that's because Our social and economical system really puts this in a margin that we is really hard to approach But I'm also really really Optimist And I also have good examples Besides these possible scenarios that we can imagine and put it out there as a scenario that we can reach And like create together. I was also thinking about What kind like from an art like performers Performing art creating creators activists all together Maybe it's good to define ourselves. What is the positioning Of ours. Do we want to prevent something? If it's prevention, what exactly from the climate change we want to prevent Do we want to not have gas exploitation in black sea, which will might happen soon? Or do we want still a capitalist system to Enslave our bodies and our work and so on like what exactly from the climate change We want to approach and prevent it to not grow or like redirect their Its way and when I'm saying prevention I want to remind the people here in cluj about this project that we had It was called la terrenore spazio comuna monastur. It was a green space in monastur neighborhood That wanted it was to be threatened because it was an empty wasted green space people were using it for like dog walking and some Like yeah nice walks in the neighborhood It was threatened with the idea of having a mall or having some building there because you know The city is growing in this direction But it's not something palpable. It's not something that you really see. It's not yet the the really like the digging Car there or anything and we started this campaign about what we want actually to have this green space for in the future Let's create this future together and that was also an art cultural organization that started the project with architects with Artists with people that were making the radio show of the Neighborhood with a festival of the neighborhood and like five six years later. We have a green space Taken by the city hall and it's green with not the dream as we wanted if you ask me But I think It's the best Thing that we have given the situation It was a lot of hard work and I want to congratulate the people that actually put all that work there and negotiated with City hall and made all that thing possible with art included and to summarize it Coming back to performing arts. I think it's important to instrumentalize art for the cause you have and define your cause And then maybe we can create something Thank you, honey. Yeah Good point. And as you were saying you have to Find the the very particular thing where you can Make a discourse and to to really approach something because otherwise you just go all all the way and I think You are also mentioning about how we Exploit a bit our bodies and our work and given the fact that we are an independent Theater here and we are independent artists. It's even Harder to to to try to to fight all the fights somehow Concerning different social issues Yeah, anyway, I have a lot of things to say but I will go on because I'm not the guest here. I'm the moderator. I'm sorry Okay, so Yeah, I will try to go on and to to follow my structure here and One of the questions That I want to ask is about writing for theater and Annie was also showing you that book but is yeah How is to write theater in this context because I'm thinking about the fact that The whole political social Climate change context is influencing the way that we are producing art Any kind of art and that question is maybe more directed to yuana Who is a playwright and also to shantal and I am really curious about how do we shape our discourse Concerning climate our artistic discourse concerning climate change. I'm saying that also because I wrote your essay shantal Why I'm breaking up with And there's a way of shaping Things not only the content But also the shape of of theater that is changing Given this context I don't know who wants to start shantal or yuana and anyone else who wants and delia of course because She's a coordinator. Okay. I'm gonna shut up I I just have a question first when you talk about shape you mean form or what the form of the text also that but I I'm I don't know. I think there's a lot of of things that Are related to form and shape of discourse because I I ask because I think it's maybe funny to start like that by saying that In dialogue with the director of habituation, which is Raul Kolda We ended up to the conclusion that we want to go back to the more classical form of writing for theater uh My myself for the first time I tried to write a narrative having a narrative I tried to write less Deconstructing Less fragmentary as I would usually do I try to use Some kind of characters even though they are not fully characters Uh, so I wrote scenes theater scenes classical theater scenes but Coming back to to your question about writing for theater and I have to say with the risk of disappointing some people that I come from a less militant place I It's hard for me in this time of life and in this time of my process as an artist Uh to find resources for protesting to towards anything But I will talk about my pros why One is is laughing here. She's empathetic Yes My first uh dilemma when writing about Not about climate change because I wrote mostly about uh, solastalgia and eco anxiety was Finding a place from where to write without Transferring the Paralyzation I I felt while researching about climate climate change not transferring it Into my work and into the public Um the the main Dilemma was how to write without being cynical how to write without pointing fingers without using blame as a tool for For saying what I want to say Um, I wanted very much to be very proactive in my work And very warm and positive as a female who writes about Trauma a collective trauma And I ended up I think writing A warm dystopian word Or something like that Even though the scenario is not the stopping in its dystopic in itself The stories the performers tell are a bit dystopic And uh coming back to this idea of writing without uh paralyzing the audience Um I tried to to find A tool in being maybe more poetical using more Or writing more like I'm playing with the idea of eco anxiety Than trying to to offer concrete solutions Uh, I I think it would be great if art would Get at some point where it can offer solution. I I myself personally don't Cannot take this position as I I don't have solutions for myself in my life Not for everything I I cannot I I I have to escape and I to wanna No, um I don't know what else I wanted to say Yes, and I think uh because we were talking about this big subject of climate change being this alien big Peripheral subject that we would like to touch but just don't know how because it's so big as so Traumatizing for everyone to to talk about it I just tried to treat it like uh something that's Totally undeniable And that it's like very present so present in our lives That uh, we don't necessarily have to call it on its name We don't necessarily have to call it eco anxiety or climate change It's just present and it's just uh manifesting in a lot of ways I I I'm done Thank you. You wanna Yes, so I've I've written a number of work. I've uh about that deals with the climate crisis and um And they vary from full length place to very short ones And I think um my journey has been So far that at the beginning I Wrote very I think more directly about the climate crisis and the science and Yeah, I'm about about the science and and as I move forward it I tend to steer away from that a little bit and um Embrace more of the social issues and also Um I try to find So I I should say that um, I'm speaking, you know for the most part because I live in New York I'm speaking to an audience that's already You know concerned about the climate crisis. I don't have to convince anything that that it's real and so That's different and maybe play rise who live in different parts of the country who have to um Use different tactics. I have a friend for example who um, she's working with She was working with television producers and film producers To encourage them to include climate related information in their work in the background So, you know, not change anything about what the show what the film is But is there anything in the background that could be There that is just part of the story, you know, we don't bring attention to it like this is climate change But it's just part of the story And I feel like moving forward I I have branded myself as a climate change playwright So I don't think that's going to change because everybody knows me as that But it doesn't mean that everybody has to be so direct Climate change is part of all of our lives. Um, we're all being affected by it. So You know, we all of the stories that we've all is told Love stories, uh, you know family conflicts Internal Searches all of those can still exist within the bigger context of climate change um in my own work also I what I'm trying to do and I Talked about this a little bit. Um just earlier Is to hold two truths together the truth of everything that we're losing and all of the sadness and the anger, you know At the fact that things are not changing quickly enough or Significantly enough and um finding the if not the hope at least the court the courage to do forward to go forward and to still engage because We we have these very specific targets, you know, like we shouldn't go above 1.5 degrees of warming and um It was something I was very much focused on when I started and now, you know It's very unlikely. We're gonna meet that target and I had to go through a real moment of well than what And I have to constantly remind myself that the out, you know The work is the same because we can always prevent things from getting worse. We may not meet any specific targets that we've set and that's Disturbing but, um, you know, it can always it can always be worse and we want to do as much as we can to stay away from the worse Also, I'm I'm thinking Again in the in the north american context. There's a The tradition of plays like a lot of dysfunctional families and very focused on individual stories And I'm I'm trying to think of how can we disrupt that and recenter human beings within a much larger context so For example, we've only been on earth, you know for a fraction A really really small time compared to the age of the earth and and all of the species around us Is that a way is there a way that that can be captured in the stories that we tell? um Also the the concept of interconnectedness Our stories are very human centered. What does it mean if we try to break that open and put humans As one part of a big web of life as opposed to as the main part or the apex, you know of all of this species And um, I tend I tend to write um in in very poetic ways like including non human non humans and animals and all kinds of other beings in my story and I try to um capture a sense of uh, which is something that I very much feel when I You know have different um Experiences with nature. I as I mentioned I'm in Alaska right now and I was on the I went on a cruise A day cruise Where we were taken to glacier and we saw all kinds of animals, you know on the water We saw otters and sea lions and whales and against this backdrop of huge mountains with snow on top and This glacier that was calving and it's so um Impactful to be you know to feel small in such Huge nature and I think if we are able to feel that then We're gonna have a different relationship to what's around us because We want to protect these things. We want there to be we want them to be there for us and then for the next generations And so what is it? I am always asking myself. What is it with my place that I can? How can I impart this sense of our or encourage people to find it in their own lives? Um Yeah, I think I'll stop there Okay, thank you. I was picturing, you know that very famous image where you have the pyramid with the human being It's only that is on top And there's another image with the circle where the human being is just somewhere in between animals insects fish and plants and The whole ecosystem and you are saying about this kind of approach where you give a voice to other beings or other things not only humans Uh, okay, maybe Delia you would like to go on because I I think the the whole platform of Minidacted and I'm thinking about the projects during the the pandemics where Uh, children were involved in writing For theater like small episodes and maybe you can talk about how do we shape the discourse and how we can influence young audience If you want of course Yes, of course. Well When it comes to me as an artist, I don't think we have to be Not direct I think uh ecology It's a big theme and climate change. It is important And if we have an elephant in the room, then we are gonna talk about it Not crawl next to the walls not to disturb the elephant And it's very important for the young audience to know that And I want to I really want to share this experience. I used to work in hong kong for a while and there I found A lot of children who had all the knowledge about ecology even more than I had and before Becoming an artist. I graduated geography university But It was this big gap between what they knew and what Where were they doing how they act on it? And I realized then that This is a huge issue about Climate change being some mainstream and have it all around education in education But not being able really to act on it And I was wondering why is this happening? and I'm here actually to talk about values and how I truly believe that values are the core thing in my process as an artist and When I talk about my beliefs, I talk about mini-reactors directions as well And actually today realized that our first show in mini-reactor was an ecological one We were talking about Two old men being in the garden in the garden and we were giving kids to eat Radish and apples and fruits in inside the show And since then I had this This Believe that everything I do in the theater. It has to be somehow related to um Climate change and to love of nature and I believe that The values that I believe that they are healthy there There is where we have to start like Tolerance love listening skills Not being inactive when we see things happening around us And this is what we do at mini-reactor And in each show you can see one of these core values that we are talking about Not only for the children but for the parents And what was uh Petra talking about it's um We have the Syria of Film theater during the Um Isolation period in pandemics and we encourage children to write about How they how they are living this Lockdown And we created 12 episodes You can see them on our youtube channel Um And yeah, I think They are great actually it was Petra's ideas All this All the project she wrote it she got the funding We've just implemented and it was Really hard Really hard because we were thinking how can we create 12 setups But not use the materials for 12 shows How can we do that? I mean it was so much Effort to do it And for my point of view the stories were really really relevant not the Costumes the never-ending costumes that we could use And we tried to to keep it quite simple and to value more the words and the idea and The the emotions that were coming out of those words Thank you, Delia It wasn't planning to go there Where I was writing the project and everything, but uh, one or maybe you can talk a bit about Best not the other and only not not only but I think you have How do you say the nurse in English? Approach oh again approach Well, uh, yeah, so I will talk on behalf of Bessner company Talking about Vinovata this show about climate change. It was very important for us to To make sure that we highlight the responsibility of the responsibility of individuals and And And the complicity they have in the climate change But most importantly we wanted to hold the great companies accountable The great polluters and the companies that benefit more from From the climate crisis and we want which are the oil companies and that's why we have that list In the middle of the show I think it's important to show people that We I mean, we know who is to blame for this and we know what we have to do to To change so that's why we're we're trying to make people aware that you can change something you just have to To know about it And I think theater is a very Important tool to do that because it raises empathy in the in the public and It Being empathic makes you to take action A huge aspect of our work is empowering audiences and Giving them this tool of empathy and also giving them Um Some sort of knowledge but not statistic one because when we were writing Vinovata I mean not myself, but since Yana Kozo Korescu and Niko Vakari the two directors and the founders of besna theater While we were talking about this This this discourse discourse of climate change. I was expecting a lot of statistics and Their approach to be like one where To tell people what to do to not to the climate change not to happen But they said that And I agree with them now To make people aware It's more important than giving them just numbers because you can find numbers anywhere if you get interested by the subject Uh, so yeah, we are trying to create a sense of community around every subject that we We tackle and to create this feeling of empowerment in the public Thank you I think you are really mixing the activism with art Yes, because uh Ourselves as a company we We name We name ourselves like an interventionist political theater company. I mean, we are very militant and we try to I mean, this is our way to do our best I think I was thinking about that and this is somehow related to my next question because Having like this different hats as Ani was saying, you know being an activist but also being an artist also being A human being in this context having a personal life a family any kind of family and I'm thinking that Going there fighting Also for this kind of causes It's so time consuming and energy consuming Because you're not doing only art. You are also Struggling for a lot of stuff Yes, and that's why In everything that Bezna does they have like a very long time of research and development of the of the text and Because we want to To be aware of everything that has happened And we are trying to find to put the pieces together to find Really who is responsible and what can be done No You have something more there. I don't know. Is this the second the second? No, I'm going I was looking at Ani because I'm trying to Open up a bit and to go to go there Where I want to to to talk more about how does our work? Since you are not an artist per se, but you worked in different contexts In cultural and artistic context And I I'm curious and this is also related to Delia because on on on the values that she was talking about And the way the the work that we do Reflect some of our values values and the way that we want to live And I think it's also similar to what Bezna theater does Because we we we do want to add In in our specific kind of work The way that we want to shape this world or our little world or the the small community that we are in So maybe you will As answer again this question, Ani Yeah, so like I'm not really sure if I will reply directly to your question, but like I have some thoughts around this I think I really want to welcome a bit into the conversation this kind of like Need of worm Community feeling Because as I said the context here, it's a bit different We didn't have that time to have a public debate understanding like the deep understanding of how the system creates the the climate change and climate crisis and To even allow ourselves to call it crisis Is still a debate in in our context so because of this lack of a time and like the foreign Influences and foreign also like we are really in contact with everything happens everywhere. I think it's just like too much to handle And I want to welcome this kind of like Nuances and different positions while we are all together We can be emotional about it and we can talk about them those emotions and we can be militant about it And we can talk about the numbers and scientific stuff But we can also envision other words based on those scientific stuff So when I'm like a bit more militant and you hear me more militant I don't want to get people out of their bed that they need to stay there and they need to you know Find that worm besides their home and families and friends. I want them to know that we are allies in this While we are facing this together and in In Romanian context for me like I have these two hats sometimes I'm deep anxiety in my Home and my friends know how much I want to go to my garden garden at home or countryside But I also I'm also a militant because I know those numbers. I have a deep analyze of how That slogan that it's everywhere and not really too much in Romania system change not climate change is not from anywhere It's real the system that we have it's From the how the economy works How the power is distributed to the through the society how the money are distributed to the society how the gendered are like Inequalities through gender through russia Inequalities and so on so there are like so many layers and if we don't understand how this interacts with the climate Crisis which is a symptom of that system it's harder to approach and When we talk about values and so on like I feel like we really have to think as artists and performances and so on to write down our theory of change I've seen this in many groups more activists to be honest than Artists to write down theory of change and really try to apply it in your work And theory of change meaning which are your values? How do you get there how that word full of your values looks like and how you create that theater play into Is it the room of a theater? Then maybe maybe you will have to change your Your tools your Approaches according to that theory of change you might want to go to schools if kids will not come here anymore or you know It really depends on how what do you want to prioritize and where do you want to position yourself? But I think that without this taking a clear stance Which is political in my opinion It's really hard to talk about it because climate change is deeply political Thank you Yeah, I do agree that climate change is super political but on the other hand, I believe it's common sense and The guilty In the climate change It is the system but in the same time we are the system and this is where I think that I can have a bit tiny bit of the power And you are asking about how can we shape our small communities? This is something where I feel that I have a little bit of power and it makes me feel Good about it and positive because I I saw some of the kids and parents growing in mini reactors shows And I can see there is a bit of hope because this small community that comes In this small yard. It is a bit different and they are really listening I have this memory when it was Winter time and it was a little bit of snow outside On the times when where we had snow And the the kids were playing And it was a poop a dog poop in the snow And my face went black green yellow. Oh my god. What the parents are gonna say And then I see the father. He goes to the trash pickups a bag takes the poop Put the poops in the bin bag in the trash can And then tells the kids go on and play And then I realize wow These are the people that I want to share my My my shows and the dialogue because we can really have a discussion And more of that with their kids that they may Take the example of us and the parents And yeah, maybe there is hope but the communities are super small and it's super exhausting For my point of view Yeah, I agree. It's not an easy work. I was saying it's very time and energy consuming You cannot do this only if you really have a Very very big drive to do it. Otherwise you can do art for art and that's it One out you wanted to add something about this Or not. No, I was thinking before you. Okay. No I don't know if anyone else wants to add something Chantal would you like to add something on this topic or Yeah, I just want to add Something briefly about system change and responsibility and how you know individuals we have a little bit of power I keep thinking about the early lockdowns For covet and how I mean I was blown away Who would have imagined that you can stop the world right from one day to the next you can stop the world And we could all agree. I mean there was nothing Well in certain countries there were but in most countries You know, it was an agreement that we all made that we needed to stay inside and be safe and Protect each other Now there was a huge crisis that happened to everyone at the same time and the Consequences were very real because we weren't seeing people die everywhere But I keep thinking if we can rally everyone around that like it's possible Right until covet I think we were under the impression that yes, we need this thing to happen But we're never going to be able to rally everyone around this idea But we did it we were able to do it around covet and so I keep thinking what is it going to take For us to rally around this idea in a in a big way, you know to make big changes very quickly So it's I don't have to answer. It's just a question that's out there, but I think it's an interesting Example of what we're able to do as a world community Yeah, I agree. I remember that sometimes there's We had In the past some Qna's after some theater performances and sometimes there there was this kind of question But why don't you talk about this or why don't you talk about that as well? I mean everybody identifies a social issue or a very very problematic topic and They pass this responsibility to the artist Why don't you talk about this as well in your theater? Performances and I'm thinking that it's sometimes so much pressure on us to also Be aware of what's happening and also to follow somehow your your job and your work and There's another thing about theater that keeps bugging me and I remember there are a couple of months ago We had also Very interesting talk with two of the members of gob squad German English company theater company and we were talking about how necessary and How much can theater do and one of them said well Financially speaking theater is a disaster because it's Consuming a lot of money regarding production And this is one of my questions related to ecology ecology. How can we Be sustainable in theater or how do we talk about theater production? giving The fact that we are consuming more stuff in order to create Synography or to have certain lights that are Costing a lot of money to heat these these big Studios that we have and stuff like that and I'm wondering And I was very curious how the things went For your production for vinovata wana Did you talk about this? Was that an issue? How much plastic do we use? How much light do we consume to to make the performance look in a certain way? Yeah, we had these talks with the with the Synography with gabi al bodo The design called the designer But at some point we thought because it's a it's a play about climate crisis. We should maybe use Candles and then we thought about the B wax that was wasted and then yeah, we had these these at these talks, but Talking about stage Stage system theater production sustainability We Started to see this happening in the uk at first for us as a company A shift towards sustainability in theater productions, which is slowly becoming Having an impact also to the small companies that they don't have enough budget, but it's becoming More easy for small companies to access this type of theater production um In in our work in uk We are really trying to work with set designers and costume designers that are actively doing This type of work like working with sustainable materials and trying to reduce waste But and we are We are learning from each project to another and we are Getting what we learned to the next project We are trying to be as effective as possible While reducing waste. I mean this can be very Time-consuming and money-consuming and incredibly challenging, but I think Especially when we are working in condition of precarity because they're small companies. We don't have as much money To put in the shows, but it is by no means impossible Talking about vinovat, uh, which I shan't all I have to say to you vinovat means guilty guilty is Is a genderless word in english, but here in romania. We don't have this Genderless word. That's so we put the masculine and the feminine that is why it's called vinovat Is for the feminine We are using maybe when you will come to the show tomorrow if you haven't seen the show already You will see that we are using water and we felt that Using water is very important because we wanted to highlight that The importance of water and how the The war on water will become the next or oil wars Because that's what we think it's going to happen in the future Hopefully the use of water will create we are hoping that this use of water will create a Feeling of unease in the audience and make them reflect about how How important water is Especially sweet water that we drink that we consume and the enormous impact that Water waste have and fossil fuels have I'm talking about here about the big companies that use it and they are All the resources worldwide that are Affecting less fortunate people So yeah, that's why we we are using we got this question about why do we Why in a in a theater play about Theater show about climate crisis. We are using water It's it's to put an awareness about this In the in the grand scheme of things the liters of water that we use are nothing compared to to To what the major companies are doing. So as a metaphor We thought it was very powerful this use of water Yeah, I was not judging. I know that you use water, but yeah, I think it's At some point when you are very deep in this topic you start to see and to be attentive to everything around you and you you you There's this as you say You start to feel uncomfortable because maybe you can really reduce everything very very much And in comparison to what pieter does in some cases and when you see how much waste there is I'm really starting to to ask myself. How can we produce theater in in a More ecological way. I don't know chantal. What what what's your experience on this? How do you feel about it? So I'm not an expert in sustainability, but there are a number of organizations that are doing incredible work Trying to green the cultural sector In the uk there's julie's bicycle and they've they've created a whole series of tools for organization to measure their carbon footprint and then They have recommendations on how they can lower their carbon footprint There's also something called creative carbon scotland. That's doing the same thing in scotland In canada the center for sustainable practice in the arts has is in the process of adapting these green tools that julie's bicycle uses and creating adapting it for the canadian context and so um These are all you know in a way And sustainability is easier and i'm just saying that because it's measurable It's not you know content is much harder because you don't you don't really see the impact right away It's hard to measure the impact with sustainability. You can change a light and immediately know how much less power you're using or you can Um ban all the plastic water bottles from your theater Or you can use more sustainable wood to build your set so I'm not saying it's easy to implement because um as It was mentioned It's costly. It takes time. There's all these other measures, but It looks it looks good for funding, you know, because you if if a funder gives you money You can say okay, here's what i've managed to achieve in terms of sustainability And I would also say that it's important Even though the theater as a whole is a small sector and you know the changes are Small I guess in the in the big context. It's important that we do it Just because it's important as a as a sector that we do our part But also theaters rehearsal for life, right? We put on stage Things that we want to implement in our in our life. So I think it's a good model to model sustainability and to even to say it I'm a little sad that sometimes Theaters will go through a lot of efforts, but then they don't talk about it The audience doesn't know and I think it's important to say like here's what we're trying to do Here's what we're achieving here's where we're not able to make that much changes because It it shows that there's an effort and it shows that it's not straightforward that you can make some things better But you have to compromise and I think it's a it's a good model because then people can maybe Go home and be inspired to do whatever they can do in their life Yeah Like I totally agree with you both Three people has already talked on on this but like what I would like to Add about this exactly system change is more like maybe in this type of Exercise that we want like rehearsal for life or how you want to call it in like How do you how would we approach the changes in our daily? life and circuits of life See where actually system doesn't support you where do your recycle includes Where do you like on what is based this energy? Maybe it's already like on gas or petrol or you know So and that's not something that you can change and maybe being aware of that and like see what Initiatives from like climate movement as small as they are but like there is I don't know some Angels also that are making advocacy also initiatives that are appearing and I'm really hopeful that it will be a boom in the next years To like really connect with those and say okay We can't do much about this because it's part of the system of City hall and put the pressure there together with the the other actors of like social Life because if we want each of us to just recycle at home in silence Nothing will happen because when the garbage car is coming they are putting all together because they don't have a system to recycle So I know it's like kind of Especially the recycling topic It's so much talked about and nothing act upon that we almost don't want to talk about is Kind of a topic that you don't want to hear about anymore But I think we really have to put the responsibility not only as on us as individuals and groups We can do something to feel better and to see that you we Contribute to the change we want to see in the world And also to be aligned with our own values But we really have to align those values on a more social level and Really point out the actors that are responsible for that change to really happen at the system level also Because otherwise we'll be just you know The the recycling at home until the street Yeah, meanwhile we can educate ourselves to be good citizens, right? And this goes to Delia because she's in the educational approach As well, maybe you want to say something about it. I'm not sure Well, I don't have anything to say by of it No, well, no, I think that we it's very important to be aware of Capitalism and that yes, we recycle but why do we buy? How much do I need to buy? and all this stuff And yes, now we know how to recycle because as far as I know all this Recycled bins they were Not implemented into a system because we didn't know how to do it now. We know it so we can ask For the system to be implemented because now have we have the power to do it like The bins are full with recycled materials all over clues. So Now we have it. We've obeyed the system. So let's change it I don't know but there are those Big cans where you can put the recycled Materials, right? But you're saying that everything goes to Yes, baby. Okay As far as I know they were created like this, but not having a system yet because They decided that we as citizens we don't have the the means and We don't know how to do it So we needed a time to learn how to put our trash separately And now I think it's the time to do it Like to implement the system I did it I knew it and I did it because I wanted for other people to see me how I go with free baskets Downstairs Yeah Your own example, right? Yeah, I think this is my only power because I'm afraid of going and at the big battle But and it does so What I can do I can go with her And be a follower This is what we all can do I like how this is going outside the theater world And maybe that would be a good time to open up the discussion. I still have questions, but I want to Open up and to see if there are any questions from the audience Regarding everything that we talked so far There's oh, okay, so There's a microphone for you. Hi So my name is Marius. I'm I would say I'm an City concerned citizen involved in sustainability So my my question I'm stuck with the beginning of your presentation where you were talking about this difference between Doomsday and then kind of like more positive outcomes and dreaming and imagining solutions And looking at different types of arts I see poetry as being like the forerunner for expressing more positive solutions like From the art that I consume Poetry has been the first to to move away from From doomsday and kind of start to imagine things The best example I can give you is like all we can save anthology It's an american bestseller new york times bestseller book I I recommend it and my question is like In the different types of arts because you you also touched on the idea of Hollywood preferring Collapse as it's more Friendly for the big screen Or more it brings it in more audiences What is the delay with between the different types of arts and and how does theater Sit in in in the spectrum like if if maybe poetry in my perception is a forerunner How long does it take for for theater to to to start to include this? I'm not very familiar with with how how the whole process works, but For me classic I feel like literature it's easier you just write the book so it kind of starts earlier And then you get more funds and then maybe you do a play or a movie about it So my question is if you feel like there's this delay because of production costs And what are like other arts that you're looking at For inspiration that could help you put something into your work This question Some of it but not all Can you just refer like what is the the question itself? So, uh, no, it's it's the because of the camera. Uh, it's not the the way you talked It's not about that the volume was good. Uh, so I will try to reformulate or to Uh Yeah to say the question again, so what's the delay between arts and especially about theater Regarding those topics and Marius was talking about how poetry and literature are maybe more update and There's another another way of consuming this type of art And maybe theater because of the cost of cost of production and the the efforts to do a theater piece Is uh, it's it's maybe why it has a certain delay More or less Yeah, okay, so and the next question is uh as theater artists If we look at other types of art and For inspiration Hmm the question is for everybody shantal. It's not So you wanna know she's trying to answer So as far as I know as a consumer, uh, maybe the Sector that has the most or managed to to explore The most in this direction Are the visual arts and I'm talking here about Visual both as digital art as painting but mostly I think as installations And I think this somehow it's it's true for Romania also not only for for the outside I I now that you asked this I'm very curious maybe to to understand why why why are they somehow maybe More uh Or went Further. Yeah, further. That's the word I was looking for went further than we we did It's maybe the type of Of tools that you find to express And this is my maybe my uh, my feeling as a writer that some sometime I would Find it more valid to express what I want to say in a visual way But I don't have uh, I'm not prepared for this So I will stay set in my writing and think a visual artist would do it better But if you ask like my my main inspiration in these years for Engaging in a type of discourse was uh, or a for uh, Elia son I think he's the best for me As an inspiration and I think in his works, uh, even if he is a visual artist He uses this tool of presence In a very nice way that I think it would be so much So so much better to to Manage to find this this way of expressing Uh a discourse about climate change in theater also The the concreteness of the things that they are very real. They are very here with us and the fact that uh We are present here because his installations Are very participative in in in many ways Yeah Someone else that would like to answer Well, I do it as well. My next project. It's going to be Well in collaboration with a poet She doesn't write especially about climate change, but we are going to work together and yes as I'm I don't know made as an artist. I will try to keep it as Echo as I can do it In a state theater So I think we we all look around because theater is a mix of arts But I think you pointed perfectly why theater is Some steps backwards um I I don't know Because I'm not aware of all the data and that's why I'm saying this I don't know where theater is positioned in the spectrum of arts talking about climate change and how Theater is positioned toward this not talking about the catastrophe That the climate change will bring but talking about perspective of Hope Hopeness is yeah, hope hope perspective of hope But I think that For romania, it's a very new topic Uh, which was introduced a few years ago because when you are talking about all the arts I mean shantel here has been written the climate change plays for 15 years I don't know about poetry because I don't have the data But I think it's important in the future for all the arts and not only the arts to do their job And to to bring awareness and to make people Uh Understand what is happening and to change in here in romania Talking about theater as you can see here because you are at an independent theater This uh, this topic is a very specific specific one for independent companies The state theater is not talking about this because it Right now the the large public is not really impressed by this theme and I think it's uh, it's important to to Uh to keep on working and to because Right now, I think that independent theater are doing the work that the big theaters should do here in romania at least Shantel maybe you would like to answer Yeah, um From my point of view, uh to it has been the visual arts that have been first in tackling this topic and For the same reasons I would mention. I think you know, it maybe the climate crisis lends itself to be More understandable through visuals Because it's immediate But one thing I wanted to add for literature in the theater There's it it's not just the artists. There's like systemic issues There's a wonderful book by amitav Ghosh called The Great Arrangement and he talks about how novels Have not been so successful at Engaging with the climate crisis and one thing that he says is that any And I think this is changing again, but um books, you know novels fiction that engage with the crisis was not Considered literature it would be, you know put into a genre like it's science fiction or and it was not reviewed Positively, you know critics were putting it down and so it has Like even though the artist might might be trying to address this topic if the wider System around the art is putting it down then it becomes very difficult and I would say the same has been true with The theater where artists are more and more engaged especially the not the younger generation Because they have they've never known the world without the climate crisis but if the critics are Consistently reviewing these play negatively then it makes the theaters shy to produce them And there's a whole And I think this it sounds like the same as true in Romania, too there's a whole financial aspect to this where If the theaters are not able to bring the audiences in then it becomes more financially risky to produce displays not to mention that There might be all kinds of reasons why they can't get them funded for example, if they have people on their board who Are have close connections to the fossil fuels industry? so, um, I guess I just want to point this out to So so it's the responsibility is not solely on the artist like this There's the whole system around the artist that also makes it difficult Thank you are there Other questions. Okay, so we have one question there and then not aliyaki I guess it kind of follows on from what shanta was just saying, um, but maybe reframed positively And maybe continuing the focus on this as you said at the start this idea of Showing positive potential positive futures like the solar punk movement does visually um an inspiring eco action um Sure when the system kind of works against you that's difficult But there's a room full of people here that care about the climate crisis And probably want to support you support this movement support this art What do you the panel struggle with what do you need? What would help you? How could we help you? Shanta, did you hear the the question? So what do we struggle with and then I'm not sure of the rest What do we need and how They can help us But of course, I I'm imagining that the the question is open for everybody, right Ani Is not like absolute response, but the first thing that came into my mind Create more spaces to debate At least for the Romanian context. We need it Just create more spaces We will try to join and if there will be more and more groups then we can See what further but if everything it goes to the digs directly these five people that are here Just because it happened to them to the create one space It's a lot for these five people. So you don't help us we help each other I wasn't going to mention it, but it's too direct. I'm working on this right now. We're Organizing eco festival that is absolutely a space for everybody to Not just debate, but to discuss Solutions and what we're working on and how we're acting in Anyway on the sustainability crisis right now. So everyone's invited Thank you anyone else Dilia I think cultural mediation It's A way of discussing with the with the audience And I think being part of it and I don't know bringing more people to talk about it If you have kids Bring them here if you have friends Send them here And this is how you can help and I think it's it's a great question And it's really good for us to know what we need To ask for people who want to help And be part of it Because you asked about what do we need and it's very nice. This is happening. Thank you Really, it's it's almost a shock I want to to talk about Because you mentioned debate and everything I want to talk about this event that's going on this month At reactor, which is called the framework solar star gia Where we we meet and talk about Shows we've seen here Related both to climate change, but also to other issues as the depression and anxiety in general And I happen to to moderate this for the first time And what I can say is that Again, I insist on narrowing this gap between the public and the artists It's very important for for us to understand What from what we do is is is going there in the public It's important not to remain in our bubbles of art and stuff And I think it's also Because we had this process where we had natalia and marius as a specialist but also A psychotherapist from minta forte I think it's it's crucial this dialogue between disciplines now so I I just like my next Question is like how how can we have more dialogues like this Where we are not each each of us in our bubble But also we are in dialogue with the public But also with scientists with anthropologists and people from Any other medium Okay Why not word chantal would you like to answer? I don't have anything to add. Thank you. Okay Yes, I don't have anything to add just to Underline the thing that you should bring more people to this theater To yeah to to events They are talking about Climate change then they are talking about Depression and I mean, yeah, that let's keep the dialogue going. That's what's important Yeah, I just want to add something because I find it's also very nice that you ask this question. It's very kind And I'm thinking about this two years and a half with the pandemics where we couldn't have audience in this studio and Sometimes what we need is the fact that we are relevant somehow Because we know that art cannot change the world But at least we can have a space to reflect upon different issues And I think we need to know that That we can give this kind of space and during the pandemics we felt a bit pointless and irrelevant So, uh, yeah, it's a good question. We need to know that we Exist and we are important for some kind of audience Natalia you had Thank you. So I'm natalia. Um, my question is to each of you the six of you but also To each of us when you go back home to reflect upon And it is about the dialogue and about the discourse And how we talk to ourselves and to each other on this topic So the question is this If we were to replace the following words Crisis fighting militant protesting You get the point What would you replace it with? In the discourse in the dialogue I am a specialist in this domain because you know, I know things that it's important Chatelle, did you hear the question? Yes, it's yes. How would we replace the words? In the discourse, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Who would like to I just received the microphone. I I'm still Maybe I can try to answer because I I started by saying I'm not in Coming from a militant place right now And I I want to say something about Which I already told you and marius um few days ago That it was such a relief for me That two two specialists in ecology I mean marius is He is a kind of specialist We're so engaged in in having a dialogue about relations And about community and about Finding a softer place from where to speak I remember something you said natalia When I ask you In the very beginning of the process. What do you think people don't want to hear? Or or don't need to hear right now and you said I think they don't need to hear about saving the word if I remember well And that was Very crucial moment for me also when you talked about Palliative care and this is maybe A word I would try to to replace Care and palliative care Because I know annie is also concerned about grieving. How can we grieve as a community So I don't know if I should add something more I don't know what's the the antonym. I I don't even think antonym is the word in english It is okay, so So I don't know what is the antonym for for blaming and from from guilt I personally Without trying to invalidate other Approaches I personally found myself All this time believing this is not a proactive place to talk about climate change, so I am trying to find an antonym to it and I don't know what is the does anyone know what is the antonym to guilty? yes accountability Accountability So I would I would say that the antonym for guilt is accountability and the reason is that guilt is like someone like Being with you behind your shoulder telling you that you you're okay. You have an an ethic an ethical base and then you can you can do that That act you can act like that But then it can also come back Because you know that you have it and you feel like you're a decent being Because guilt is with you while when you are accountable, you just Acknowledge the fact that you did that either that it was buying a plastic bottle because you were fucking thirsty pardon my french Or because you smoke again, even though you want to quit smoking And then you're just accountable and then you embrace yourself as a an imperfect human being and then you go on with your life And maybe tomorrow you really quit smoking and maybe tomorrow you really take your Metal container with you and you don't buy that plastic bottle and then it's fine, right? Even if the day after tomorrow you might buy a plastic bottle and then it it's that is also fine Thank you And to that I will just add maybe Engagement And I by this I I'm very general in in cause in values but I think mostly for me like the The approach now to everything that I do it's relational And this is where I find some some kind of hope to to keep believing theater has Has a meaning in this world Well I I don't know how to begin let me Think I think it's important When we speak to each other to not use to not blame each other for this because we are individuals and It's important to keep the dialogue going but when we are Looking and I know words are very powerful And they mean different things even though in the dictionary might sound like the same They have the same definition but talking about The great corporations and The things that We are not responsible are not somehow direct responsible, but They are making These they are taking these decisions and they are They are doing so without being having any concern about this problem. I think it's important to To use the right words And because the right words to describe them Can Under and can make people understand Uh the importance of stuff is the same thing with with climate change, you know, you said climate crisis You can use climate changed. We just talked outside about this Uh at first it was called global warming and people were like Listen, we still have winter. It's cold outside. It's not It's not happening and they change it because of that. So that was a very mellow term to use and people are like Come on. It's not that bad And I understand that we need to bring positive thoughts in this aspect of this theme and I really appreciate it and that's why we are here to talk about what can be done But I think it's important to also use the right words when it comes about accountability Yeah, you have the mic My word is accountability And my friends can can find it in my sentence all along these days and I don't know. I don't really have an issue if we burn the planet but Let's be aware of what we're doing Let's be aware when we buy the plastic bottle When we take the car and when we do everything we do Let's take responsibility for everything we do Because this is who who we are. We are not perfect But if this is who who we are then it's okay I don't I don't know sometimes I feel myself in this absolute ridiculous place that I'm going outside running But I'm taking the elevator to go to the first floor Chantal do you want to speak? Yeah, I agree with everything that's been said and I would add One more word, which is adaptation And I mean that Both in terms of our values, you know What are what what do we need to change and also like physically? How do we need to adapt? And we are I think sometimes the word adaptation is seen as a Losing losing the battle right if we lose we have to adapt But I see it as something proactive like humans have adapted over the course of our You know of our lives And we were much more Adaptable because we because we didn't have permanent dwellings You know for all kinds of reasons and since we've created these big cities and all these permanent settlements We're a lot less adaptable And I wonder if we can recapture that you know, how How can we be more fluid and move with what happens as opposed to saying no, I'm here I'm staying here. Nothing is going to move me and then in terms of values it's Again embracing that We can change and it doesn't have to be a loss necessarily, you know some things we can do differently and It's not You know that we're diminishing our standard of living or it's not that we don't have as much freedom or but it's it's How can we see that as a maybe an expression of respect for our environment or for each other And an expression of our own resilience, you know, we we can that we can change with the times And and yeah and see that as a as something positive positive and hopeful Oh, yeah, I have your thoughts, but I think I will still think about it more at home too But my first things I remember these questions that every time people are putting to me um but aren't you violent When you're protesting if you are against violence, aren't you violent? and I I always say maybe not exactly with these words, but now these are coming um I am not guilty for wearing a skirt Meaning the violence is somewhere else And you just point it to something that it's making you uncomfortable Due to a bigger discourse I'm not afraid of strong words like protest and militant and so on I can't see how they can be charged with something that makes people uncomfortable But we have to figure it out that who we are addressing to i'm not addressing Towards you change now Be vegan or do that go plastic do recycle I don't think that that's the kind of activism that I want to see I'm sure people are into that also when they got piled up with all this Unjustice that they start to see But I think that's a phase and as a and I'm now talking about Romanian context I I used to live in Iceland for two years and a half and I've seen this Difference really really striking people in Romania No, I don't want to generalize but here. I feel it more strong Take things really personal if I'm saying something to you really convinced You feel you are like told off as your parent grow you until then If I'm something strong for example happens to me as a honey I'm like so I'm talking like this You know why because as a woman I was never listened and I had to like Put myself straight Speak really clear and then people think I'm fighting with them. No, I'm angry at the system I'm trying to explain something maybe and I want to find this Space to not correct each other's emotions Please be less furious because angriness is not nice anger It's something on top of a sadness It's something on top of something that I live So I'm not sure I want to Change words. Maybe I want to understand them better And because you are talking about grief In relation with climate change and without any other big Topics we have different approaches in different moments As I said earlier, I can be sad or I can be militant or I can be militant in the way of like I know what I want from this word. I want to see it together. Let's put let's construct. I'm I'm always changing the the words that I'm using But I also want to grief together because I feel As you are someone was saying that the climate change is the elephant in the room I want to take that elephant and stay at the talk with it and say, okay Where are you coming from? What's your history? Who creates those legs you have? That you are still walking around This is my approach of grieving but I also have approaches of Making a bocci tuare how to say that in English A mourner yeah like a crying song at the funeral for the land I encourage you to organize one and I will come I have some lyrics already but I also think It's a constant relation with death and people know that from mourning But mourning it's already late for grieving And some people might feel themselves there because they feel that it's the end But for me, it's a relation with death as present as with Someone that has cancer and you have to go through that together And you know that that cancer is there and might be too late, but you still hope That's an exercise that you do every day And you might have anger and you want to protest against the social like Health system and the person will take that you are angry at them But you are not angry at them. You're angry at the doctor that just Shout at you that he has cancer. So like there are a lot of emotions in place And I don't want to replace words Because they have a meaning and I'm not scared of all those shapes we can have But I agree that if we want to maybe not put guilt But accountability I agree with that Because You don't want to blame people as like death like you are the guilty one For the rest of your life. You're talking about behaviors not as humans as per se Even like the CEO of trans guys, which by the way I kind of hate I'm sure he's a human being and he might change his mind and I'm totally hoped for that But until then I will make a protest in front of his company Shortly, uh, these are my first thoughts I might have more but Yeah, good question. Thank you Nice nice. I I also agree with what Annie said that we shouldn't avoid Certain words and I also think that you could can be kind and caring and to take action in the same time and be firm Is that a word to be firm to be? Yeah Yeah, and to to Not to fight maybe because it has this violent connotation, but To make your point really clear Yeah I just want to to to say that I don't think Natalia's Exercise was an invitation to avoidance I think it shouldn't be taken that way And I also don't like Because I feel I honestly feel very lonely here I feel I'm the only one who is not One is here. She is saving me all the time. I'm the only one who who does not have this discourse of protest me listen to this or so No, no, I just want Yeah, I just Yeah, maybe it's it's a good time to Acknowledge that each of the approaches is a valid one And and yeah, maybe we should not Segregate is this word? This much on words I totally understand and I I I really got this And I I think It's impossible to be in a permanent fight protest struggle Etc and all those strong words. It's it's very No, it's impossible. I I don't think that anyone is like that all the time You will be burned your head will be burned Totally if you would be like that all the time Yeah Are there any other questions? Okay, so I I would like to say that I'm extremely happy to be here tonight Because I wrote like a ton of notes and I feel like I want to talk A lot Okay, but I will try to summarize what I've noted and to formulate also a question Uh, because I somehow I mean the space of seeing you and saying hey, but we all have space here And we're all needed here somehow like our approach is so unique that I mean, why why why do we feel like labeling like Our consumption habits or our sexuality? And now we're also labeling the way we approach sustainability We don't need to do that any of that and related to that. Um, I would like to Call a play that I recently saw at the national theater That was called the chest a line to the chest it's in a linear occupata Why is the line busy and uh for everyone to understand it's don't keep the line busy anymore Okay, don't keep the line busy anymore. Thank you and the screenwriter is a young one is like from the Let's say the new generation And I was very happy to see such a topic At the national theater and I would just want to say that it is possible I'm using my my time to say this. Okay, because there were like There were still like a couple of sexist jokes or stupid jokes that i'm sorry for labeling it stupid That people were laughing at and the audience was like also They needed to like to cling the audience on such kind of humoristic approach So that is still needed, but it is possible to introduce such topics I mean what i'm trying to say is that Working around the system that we are also building and not against it Might work in the arts Okay, and then the question that I also had in my personal professional approach because I somehow also am Trying to work related to the topic was one point When I was collaborating in on as a as a volunteer on illustration with an NGO that was declared to be For the fight against plastic and then when I saw a post on their social media for promoting An indie tax company for their sustainable line. I was like, why would you do that? Why wouldn't you talk about buying secondhand clothing and The way you wash and so on so forth other solutions and then I retired I I exited the collaboration because I got extremely angry at their approach And I I considered their gesture as greenwashing and I didn't understand why they would do that because they were an NGO They they chose to exist for the topic. I hope you understand the dilemma I mean they they really chose to to create that NGO and then the question is Where do you put the line as a creator in this case arts creator between Associating yourself with someone from the so-called System or that has also let's say good and bad decisions and where do you put the line of okay? Is that a washed decision or is that a fair decision and am I assaulting associating myself with thank you so much Chantal Did you hear the question? Yes, I did. Okay. Thank you Who would like to answer For me to be honest. I'm very I'm I don't know if I should still consider myself an emergent artist or I pass that face whatever Um, but I I was never in a in the place to do that um Actually I was in the place to do that But then the job was taken away from me without me having to quit on the job But I if I have collaborations that I don't know the The parts that are Maybe the financial sponsors. I I do a bit of research And then yes, I I would do the same as you did. I think but also I I think it's it's a very very Thin line Because sometimes it is masked as I don't know where I As you said sometimes people present as something else and they then they take a decision about That doesn't make sense with their approach and this happens and I don't know if you can stay clean all the time. I I doubt anyone else Well, I want to I mean, I totally agree with what you said we when we were making guvinovata We were thinking well, what would happen if like a big company would Pay us to go and Do the do the show there for their employees or something and we were like no we are going to To be Like true to what we are doing and we are not going to accept that And that is something like yeah, I I agree with what you did and I understand the point from That you made and From where you're coming But I wanted to tackle this from another point of view a little bit I am an Artist at the state theater I am an employee of the state theater in bucrest at the small theater And I also work in the state theater and I also do my work in In independent companies and in independent theater And It depends on the decision when you are having an NGO And you are talking about plastic free and you are promoting Like something like this. I totally agree. But we are when we are talking about individuals I want to tackle what you said before like I still am not able to quit smoking and yeah, it's a struggle and but we have to be aware I mean what I I love what I do in the state theater It hurts me that the state theater doesn't tackle the themes that the independent theater does But I need state theater to be alive Yeah, that's what I wanted to say I just wanted to add this more because I remembered a discussion we had with some other artists at the residency last year This is also discussion if If your work Because someone yeah, you said about this Hypothetical situation where a company invites you to to play there is also this question of If my work has an impact What's the most important is Still being aligned to my values Or trying to make that impact happen. And I think This is a very personal decision and maybe it's a different one in different contexts and in this Situation I I cannot say that I would choose the value all the time honestly Okay, um Just yes, and I also think that maybe it has even more value to Go and do the play for a company that Uh, it's at the Opposite side of what you're About So maybe go and play it for shell Because if you're if you're just playing for people who have the same values as you, uh, maybe you're I mean you could do a bigger impact on On the enemies Territory maybe Yeah, I I agree with you, but uh, it really depends on the context, of course, of course Um I saw what time is it, uh, and I think we might have Past a bit the The hours that we uh wanted to have for this conversation I don't know shantali if you want to answer the last question And maybe we will have a conclusion and a closure I don't have anything, um, different. I you know, nobody I've never been so lucky as have Somebody offered me a lot of money and for me to have to decide whether I should take it or not Um, and my answer would probably as nuance would be as nuanced as, um, you know, everybody else on the panel um And also I think we We can't kid ourselves. I mean the money we do receive comes from fossil fuels. Anyway If not directly then it's indirect because the government is invested in fossil fuels foundations are invested in fossil fuels. So, um We're not our hands are not completely cleaned either Uh, would you like to have a conclusion now or maybe you have some final thoughts about this whole debate? I think we will end it Pretty soon I just thought this was an extremely rich conversation And it it exemplified that there's no one Thing that everybody should do, you know, it's all about individual Um efforts and actions and working in community and I really thank you for inviting me. I have I'm getting a lot out of this and It was a pleasure to be in conversation with everybody Thank you so much. Thank you also for being here with us tonight um Who else would like to add something at the end of this debate? I don't know any kind of conclusion I just my my conclusion is that We should Do something together Like a party Like no like I would be curious what type of product product with with take out of This different approaches to to the same subject that I I felt this evening Sometimes collapsed into each other without us wanting to to happen. But this happens Mostly on strong feelings And yeah, I would just let this out Yeah, I'm like maybe in the same direction I'm really curious how to hold space for differences because we are so different all and that's totally fine Yeah, well, I totally agree with that And I want to thank everybody for coming and for uh rector to invite me here And for the discussion and what I would like to say is Just keep the dialogue going That's all and let us know what you said before. Yeah The dates and yeah everything. Thank you Well in the means of theater for young audience, um, I think Changes already started to happen worldwide and as it is. It's an international association that they already have a theater ecology festival for young audience And I think we can just take the examples and try to implement Thank you. Um I will Just say a couple of words and that's it Uh, and of course, thank you everyone for being with this with us tonight And I would like to invite you tomorrow evening to the performance where one is going to perform and Is at uh 8 p.m. Tomorrow so come to see this performance because it's very important and I it happened to me to Find out today that it was probably the first performance about climate change and ecological disaster made in Romania, so Come to see it. It was made in 2018 Okay, yeah And also on the day after tomorrow at 11 A.m. In the morning We will have the fourth Framework where we will discuss Um the show that one is presenting tomorrow In relation to a show from brimini protocol, which can be found online, but you can also like Tell me outside that hey, I want to come and I will send it to you And we will mostly have a discussion about Responsibility taking from different perspectives and how do we feel each show Is inviting us to to be responsible That's all And because we are promoting events there is the Balkan anarchist fair Book fair in the weekend at Akasa social space And I also heard that the makumano if I'm not wrong was organizing something on also climate change. So There are leaflets there in the background. So maybe people wants to take them. Thank you Okay, so there are a lot of things going on So thank you again And if you have any more questions or I don't know we can talk outside if you want to Add something else. Thank you. Have a good night Thank you